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You’re Either With Us, Or Against Us?

Since we Democrats decided to run a woman, a Latino, an African-American and a hobbit (sorry, Dennis, I just couldn’t resist! Mwah!) for president this year, there has been a lot of discussion about identity politics. The discussions mostly run like this: Is it okay to vote for Obama mainly because he’s African-American? What about voting for Hillary mainly because she is a woman?

This, like most of the so-called “analysis” perpetrated in three-second soundbytes by the corporate media, is on a cartoon level of understanding. I would like to delve a little bit deeper into the (say it with me) nuances of what identity really means with regard to political parties.

President Bush famously said, “You’re either with us, or against us.” Not only was this statement symptomatic of his general addiction to faux cowboy-ism, but I believe that it was also, in a larger sense, the way Republicans think about the members of their Party.

As we know from reading John Dean’s “Conservatives Without Conscience,” (ohfuhgodssake just read the darn book) today’s Republicans, aka “movement conservatives,” are monolithic and authoritarian in their thinking. In other words, they look for a figure of absolute authority to follow, a strong Daddy to relieve them of the burdens of thinking for themselves. (This explains the appeal of movement conservatism to evangelical Christians, and their creepy identification of Bush as a religious, instead of a political, leader.) A rare few, such as Bush and Cheney, are double-high authoritarians, who wish to be the authority figures themselves. (Remember Bush’s statement that it would be a lot easier if the U.S. were a dictatorship, as long as he’s the dictator?) Movement conservatives also espouse a platform that is negative in nature; against taxes, against abortion, against evolution, against anything with the “liberal” label stamped on it.

All these factors converge into one large lump of identity for Republicans. If you pass the test – if you believe what they believe – then you’re with them. If not, you’re against them. Show allegiance to the leader, and you can be any color, any religion, any income level and even (gasp!) female. Your identity is subsumed into that of the authority figure. You know how to vote on every issue, and you believe whatever the authority figure believes. It’s a Fascist, but efficient, way to run a political party.

More on the Republicans in a little while.

Now, for us pesky Democrats. In my experience, we are exactly the opposite of the Republicans on the subject of identity. Our loyalty is to the principles of the Party rather than to any individual. Thus, it makes it much, much harder to identify “friend” from “foe.” Getting a bunch of Democrats to all vote the same way is “herding cats.” We are currently experiencing a massive split in the Party between those who support Senator Obama and those who don’t. Why? Because we PUMAs believe that Hillary represents the principles of the Democratic Party and that Barack Obama does not. That’s your identity politics right there, bub.

Were we Republicans, this would never have happened. The base of the Party doesn’t like John McCain, because he has not shown enough loyalty to President Bush. Doesn’t matter – they’ll vote for him anyway, because President Bush has endorsed him and has raised money for him. That’s good enough for them. As for us, the base of the Democratic Party? We’ve had everyone from Al Gore, to Jimmy Carter, to John Edwards endorse Obama. We’ve even had Senator Clinton urging us to support him. No sale. We feel the love for you, Hillary, but our loyalty isn’t transferable.

What got me thinking about this in the first place was the shocking article I linked to yesterday. How is it possible that Senator McCain, a man who consistently espouses policies that would harm women in general, treats the women in his Senate office with so much more respect than Senator Obama, a man who supports policies like equal pay for equal work?

Then I realized: For Republicans, it’s all about individual loyalty. If those women are loyal to McCain, they’re not women, they’re team members. They’re With Him, and no bigotry applies to those who are members of the Republican team. That’s how President Bush was able to appoint two African-American Secretaries of State, and not one Republican blinked. Incredibly ironic for a man who, due to his lack of interest in the African-American community in general, consistently has an approval rating of single digits among AAs.

For Democrats, it’s all about loyalty to Party principles. If those women work for Obama, they are women who work for the principles of the Democratic Party, of whom Senator Obama is a representative. (See how complicated it is already?) Thus, they are seen as individuals, not nameless, faceless cogs in a wheel, and all bigotry, including misogyny, applies.

I know that we Democrats should not adopt the Fascist tendencies of the Republicans, but something has got to change within our identity mechanism. In a year when we should be looking forward to a giant sweep of the legislative and executive branches, I and my fellow PUMAs believe that we are likely to either lose the executive, or win the executive at the expense of the principles of the Party.

May I suggest, Breaking Down the Big Tent?

130 Responses

  1. From the Chronicle of Philanthropy:

    “In any election, it is tempting to treat speeches as just rhetoric, words designed to win votes, not express serious thoughts. That may explain Senator Obama’s recent reversals on issues of special concern to philanthropy. However, so much of Senator Obama’s appeal rests on his oratory that it would be foolish to assume he did not mean what he said, especially in the context of a campaign whose mantra is “change.”

    Election Day is still four months away, and both major-party candidates still have plenty of time to expand, clarify, and adjust their positions. But based on the surprising stands he has taken in recent weeks, Senator Obama may turn out to give the philanthropic world much more than it bargained for.”

    Read the rest:
    http://philanthropy.com/news/updates/index.php?id=5125

  2. Phoenix – WOW. Thanks for that very informative link.

    The principle of “the greater good” is one of the bedrock beliefs of the traditional Democratic Party.

    Another one bites the dust…under the bus.

  3. Too old and too tired to start over with new parties…I’d rather have mine back.

    Not too old or too tired for rebellion or going on strike, tho. I can still join a rump caucus or a picket line….virtual or real…so long as there’s a restroom nearby.

  4. Oldpro – if we nominate Hillary, then the Democratic Party will have re-identified itself correctly, IMHO. If we don’t, I think we’re in serious trouble as a brand. That’s why I suggest change on a more radical level in that case.

  5. Aside from his enormous ego, I think we are also witnessing a guy playing “catch up” in this election. Consider that he was plucked from nowhere and sold lock, stock, and barrel to an adoring fan base, we recognized early on that he was lacking core principles.

    Now that he has captured center stage, his lack of knowledge on the issues is becoming apparent. Admittedly he is pandering in some areas, but I also believe that having little experience beyond “organizing” he has now come face to face with reality that he may somehow be in the position of having to make an occasional decision and it is just now dawning on him that he has to defend a position he had never given much thought to up until now.

    Obama is as much in love with his own hype as the Obamabots. Intimidation, threats, sabotage, strong arming, got him where he is. Now the question arises: Now what?

  6. The party dies if the mothballs the Clintons. Bill, with all his unarguable popularity, will take the Party wherever he goes. Hillary will take most of her supporters. Left and right people are abandoning the Party. I thought we’d outlive the Republicans. I think I was wrong.

  7. Yes, Pat….now what?

    I think his VP choice will fill in the picture for those who are ‘low-information voters.’

    That is the one remaining fascination for me in this Obamathon of which I am growing exceedingly tired.

    Thank gawd for the real Olympics in August.

  8. P. S. Thanks, Phoenix, for the COP article…should strike terror in the heart of every 501-C3 without a church arm to lean on.

  9. oldpro –

    I think his VP choice will fill in the picture for those who are ‘low-information voters.’

    You mean, when he chooses a Republican? I will lay money on someone like Hagel or Mike Bloomberg.

  10. Barack Obama is a pitchman.
    He sells a product he has no knowledge of and little association with.
    Unlike even Ron Popeil who actually invented the Pocket Fisherman and other products he hawked, Obama is as familiar with true Democratic principles as the guy pitching the BeDazzler.
    He reads the copy he’s given.
    Verbatim.
    He does the job he was hired to do.
    Even if he does it well, the questions surrounding the production of the performance are the real issue.

  11. Pat Johnson – Now what is the question we are all trying to answer…I think for me, making sure that HRC is on the first ballot and that she doesn’t give away her delegates is the absolute most important thing right now.

  12. He is like an understudy in a play where the lead actor bows out for some reason. He is all psyched to get out on stage but misses a lot of the basic cues during his crucial scenes. Seems he missed a lot of rehearsal time not bothering to researh the role and running around having head shots done and calling the folks back home.

    As a result of his poor performance, the critics attack and the play folds. Just another day on Broadway.

  13. madamab: Exactly! Call out those bastards and let the US see firsthand what has been transpiring. Civilized chaos! I’m all for it.

  14. Damn right Pat Johnson! We cannot let this farce of a nomination proceed. We cannot allow the “Democratic” Party to pretend Obama is legitimate and the choice of the grassroots. Let Hillary’s delegates vote for her. Then we’ll see who REALLY emerges victorious!

  15. Just read that it’s official Barack will crown himself at mile high stadium. Pretty much takes away any chance for SD’s to vote for Hillary – all his adoring fans would be too disappointed:

    It’s going to be an amazing event, and Barack would like you to join him. Free tickets will become available as the date approaches, but we’ve reserved a special place for a few of the people who brought us this far and who continue to drive this campaign.
    If you make a donation of $5 or more between now and midnight on July 31st, you could be one of 10 supporters chosen to fly to Denver and spend two days and nights at the convention, meet Barack backstage, and watch his acceptance speech in person. Each of the ten supporters who are selected will be able to bring one guest to join them.

    And he’s still begging for those five bucks.

  16. Jmac – after I sent his demand for a contribution to the “Obama for America” Party back with PUMA written all over it, he had the “audacity” to write again. I am certain that another demand for $$$ was inside.

    Into the trash it went.

  17. I’ve reserved a special place for Barack myself. Back in the Chicago projects cleaning up the code violations he ignored the first time around.

  18. Jmac,

    As I’ve said, poetic justice does tend to sting something fierce. Oh, I can just see that bastard starting to give a speech only for the Big Dawg himself to mosey on up and knock him from the podium.

    “The Racist has spoken and he says,’Not this guy.'”

    /snark

  19. I told my husband I’m hoping for rain that night, and he thinks I’m “bitter”. Actually, just flabbergasted. But not sure a rock concert is going to turn into votes by the middle class.

  20. He already has the presidential seal. The minions are at his feet. The official crowning will take place in the Mile High Stadium. No need for a swearing in come January; just declare a work holiday and let the games begin.

  21. Jmac –

    But not sure a rock concert is going to turn into votes by the middle class.

    That’s it exactly. Dearest Obama, when you have said over and over that the middle class doesn’t vote Democratic anyway, and that you don’t need their votes to win, don’t be surprised if they take you at your word.

  22. Another reason the base of the party doesn’t like John McCain is they don’t trust him on the religious issue and abortion. Exactly what scares me the most about Obama – he is playing to that crowd. Will there be a cross at mile high stadium?

  23. JMac, me thinks there will be the Pope there to crown the man the son of God. If you’re gonna be the Messiah, might as well make it official.

  24. I cannot believe that anyone thinks they will still get a straight answer regarding anything …..from that showman

  25. he spins the exercise in grandomania that the staium is as “opening the process to the people” Some chutzpa from the gut selected in spite
    of losing the popular vote and doing everything possible to stop votes from being counted

  26. ha, ha. The pope would not surprise me al all. He needs Catholics.

  27. Whenever I hear the phrase “reserved a special place”, I think of Dante’s inferno. I think Obama belongs on the 8th circle, because he is a “Sower of Discord and Schism”.

  28. 8th circle is the circle of Fraud

  29. Not the pope, Oprah!

  30. Swan, I don’t think anybody in the media thinks so anymore but you’d best believe they’ll keep defending him.

    For serious, I want my candidate back.

  31. Unfortunately, for us, the choice is going to be vote for McCain or don’t vote at all for the top of the ticket. I know some people may vote for Nader or write in Hillary but that’s really not voting at all.

    Hillary is not going to miraculously get the nomination in Denver. If she did she probably could not win the GE. AA voters will stay home if Obama is not made the nominee. I don’t see Hillary or any other Democrat winning without the AA vote.

    Hillary’s best hope is that McCain wins and she runs again in 2012. By that time Obama’s political career will be about what Kerry’s is now and he won’t be a factor at all. The country after 4 years of McCain will be more than happy to put Hillary in the White House.

  32. Pat – Poprah!

  33. edgeoforever –

    Some chutzpa from the gut selected in spite
    of losing the popular vote and doing everything possible to stop votes from being counted

    That was my reaction as well. They really think their astroturfing and corruption of the voting process is being mistaken for grassroots activity?

    Look around, Obamabots. THIS is grassroots activity.

    Oh, and folks, let’s get real now. There is no way that evangelicals are voting for Barack Hussein Obama. Mmmmkay? He belongs to the church of God D**n America. Nagahapin. Another ridiculous pipe dream from Obama and his clueless followers.

  34. It’s fiction that Hillary wouldn’t get the AA vote. Absolute fiction. Black people would have voted for Hillary. In fact many struggled with voting for BO against her. She and Bill have been friends of the black community for a very long time, but the pull to vote for the black guy was strong. They went with it.

    She would have the black vote. As well as most of BO’s supporters. It’s never been true that she couldn’t win without his voters. Her voters make up MOST of America. Black people are 18% of the American population and most DON’T vote.

    She could have won without them.

  35. Johnny – I think AA voters could stay home and Hillary could still win. She can certainly take a chunk of the middle class. And Hillary voters staying home is a bigger piece of the pie than the AA vote.

  36. regency: Brilliant! Poprah it is.

  37. Without the race-bating from Camp O, HRC would be the nominee now.

  38. johnny – LOL!

    Hillary is not going to miraculously get the nomination in Denver. If she did she probably could not win the GE. AA voters will stay home if Obama is not made the nominee. I don’t see Hillary or any other Democrat winning without the AA vote.

    There is no evidence whatsoever to support the idea that AA voters wouldn’t vote for Hillary. In fact, several polls were taken during primary season that showed just the opposite.

    In any case, it is not Hillary who will have GE troubles, but Obama – especially after the nomination, should he manage to obtain it. The 527’s won’t start their activities until after he is selected. After they get through with him, he will be done with public life completely.

  39. My pet theory has been that the media has avoided giving Obama close scrutiny so that after he was the official nominatee they could “discover” that he is unfit.

  40. nominatee?

  41. regencyg, I am with you. All of my AA friends still like Hillary and would vote for her if she were the nominee.

    I think the whole talk of AAs rioting or not voting was an Axelrod psyop to intimidate SDs from voting Hillary.
    To me, telling people AAs will riot if they don’t get their way is one of the most racist things I’ve heard this primary. It is essentially saying that AAs are lunatics.

  42. Wait, so in addition to the American Idol Rock Concert, they’re also running a FABULOUS PRIZE GIVEAWAY contest to support this Oz (don’t look at the man behind the curtain) fest?

    I mean, really, an all-expenses paid trip contest, to the Convention? Words escape me….

  43. myiq, I don’t think so. Not when GE and TIme Warner are backing him. I think their support for him is real, because it is backed up with $$$$$.

  44. He’s certainly got the lottery down pat. Win a trip to Denver! Just five dollars. A chance to meet the great Poprah!

  45. myiq2xu – that is my theory as well. As soon as he has been “safely” nominated, they will start ripping him to shreds.

    They’ve already started turning on him; I noticed it when I was in Aruba. Obama was barely mentioned at all except in a negative light, whereas McCain was surrounded with a roseate glow of Maverick-ness. (This was CNN.)

    Mawm – sometimes the big corporations give to both candidates. Win-win. Do you know if they have also backed McCain?

  46. Hee hee. Poprah. Classic! 🙂

  47. I am a pessimist. One advantage to being a pessimist is that we are sometimes happily surprised but rarely disappointed.

    I believe that it is highly unlikely that Hillary will somehow end up the nominee. The people that rigged the nomination process would rather go down in flames with Obama than win with Hillary.

    That’s why I intend to focus my efforts on giving them their wish.

    But don’t get me wrong, if Hillary can pull this out I’ll be happy as a proverbial pig in sh*t.

  48. Manatee?

  49. For some reason this Mile High coronation makes me think of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    Maybe they will dig the Ark itself out of storage for the occasion.

  50. Mawn:

    What makes you think that the people supporting him won’t turn off the spigot? He does seem to be having more difficulty raising funds lately, doesn’t he?

  51. Denver in August:

    Picture a stable. Nancy as Mary, Rev Wright as Joseph, a swaddled Obama as You Know Who. Kerry, Kennedy, Gore, the three Wise Men. Edwards, Byrd, Richardson, all shepherds. “Silent Night” plays non stop out of the loud speakers. Donna B narrates the “miracle”.

    Michele exhorts the crowd with Yes We Can! while holding a shoe over Bill’s head in a very threatening manner.

    Hillary is unable to take part since she has been consigned to take charge of the livestock. Fr. Pfleger delivers the opening rant followed by Al Sharpton who is taking names.

    After an uplifting speech that was stolen from HRC, the crowd erupts and Oprah descends from a cloud. A real one since Oprah is “too special” for words. The entire 75,000 attendees are given keys to new cars in tribute. The finale comes to a close with a “special comment” by Keith Olbermann and 1/2 of the crowd rouses the 20 somethings who have fallen asleep since they partied too long.

    Obama then rises into the air in a puff of smoke and the world is at peace. The One is all we have hoped for.

  52. Myiq2xu: Pigs really hate shit, but mud they are quite fond of. Surprisingly sanitary animals, pigs.

  53. Wow!

    Talk about “folie de grandeur”.

    First there was this:

    Obama switches acceptance speech to football stadium

    WASHINGTON (AFP) — Barack Obama will buck tradition and accept the Democratic presidential nomination in August at a 75,000 capacity football stadium, the party said Monday, in what will likely be a spectacular photo-op.
    The Illinois Senator’s formal prime time speech is being switched to Invesco Field, home of the Denver Broncos American football franchise, from a smaller indoor hockey and basketball arena hosting the rest of the convention.

    And now he is worrying the German government with his megalomania. This guy is just a candidate visiting Europe but his plans are just pompous:

    Obama Refines Plans for Germany Trip

    (T)he Berlin Senate has reportedly been asked whether Obama can speak in front of the Brandenburg Gate, where former US President Ronald Reagan gave a famous speech in 1987. Reagan made a show of asking then-Soviet premier Mikhail Gorbachev to “tear down” the Berlin Wall.
    The Brandenburg Gate has fresh significance for an American presidential candidate, since a large new US embassy officially opened there on July 4.
    Former US President John F. Kennedy gave a famous Berlin speech of his own in 1963, but he appeared in front of the town hall in Schöneberg — then the seat of government in West Berlin — which lies several miles from the Brandenburg Gate.

    And we are talking here about CANDIDATE Barack Obama.

    Can you imagine what life would be like with Obama as POTUS? I think his worshippers have finally convinced him that he is a God’s incarnation on earth a the greatest gift ever to humanity.

  54. Maybe we could rent the Goodyear blimp for the convention. Picture this:

    Right in the middle of his speech a bright light shines down from above and a booming voice says

    “You’re not the one.”

  55. Pat Johnson from star of the stage to playwright—brava!!!

  56. Didn’t Hitler build those huge stadiums in Berlin for the Olympics then turn them into places where he practiced his “stump” speeches? Kind of reminds me of that.

  57. Myiq2xu: Who shall that booming voice be?

    Jeremiah Wright?

    Hillary?

    Big Dawg himself?

    God come home to roost?

  58. myiq2xu,

    I think they think they have found the perfect corporate candidate in Obama. He can reassure the masses that there is nothing wrong with what is happening in the country. Even now, liberal bloggers are making excuses for his support of the corporate agenda.

    If the corps can get their own Dem candidate in, they really have the shackles on us then.

  59. I think we should do Madamab’s plays in Denver.

  60. We’ll give Mawm the bullhorn

  61. James Earl Jones

  62. I’d gladly help pay for the blimp. But knowing Obama, he’s already POTUS and they will have secure air space above.

    It’s interesting that the 10 people who send in $5 will be “chosen” to participate. Apparently not a democratic process, but a choosing. Will they check out their addresses? Their jobs? Their looks?

  63. I’ll pay extra for James Earl Jones.

  64. Pat:

    Hitler gave those speeches at the Munich Zeppelin Platz, the airfield built for the big dirigibles like the Hindenburg.

    I went to an open-air concert there.

  65. Pat Johnson – Brava indeed! 🙂

    Mawm – you have my full permission to do so. We could have a showcase of all Confluence plays and commercials! (That would be a lot of material!)

  66. We are laughing and scratching at this display of arrogance but when you really look close it exudes a very funny vibe. Too much pageantry for one. Troubling.

  67. I’ll pay extra for James Earl Jones to adopt me. Mufasa!

  68. Obama’s own down fall will be his enormous ego. Hubris, a word he should become familiar with.

  69. Oh yeah,

    Jim Webb says No Deal.

    Sen. Jim Webb (Va.), considered one of the favorites to be picked as Sen. Barack Obama’s (Ill.) running mate on the Democratic ticket, announced Monday that he would not be a candidate for the job.
    Webb says he won’t be vice president Webb says he won’t be vice president“Last week I communicated to Sen. Obama and his presidential campaign my firm intention to remain in the United States Senate, where I believe I am best equipped to serve the people of Virginia and this country,” Webb said. “Under no circumstances will I be a candidate for vice president

  70. Obama supposedly promised his girls that after the election they could get a dog. If he gets a German Shepard and names it Blondie we may all need to update our passports.

  71. Are they going to put the Berlin Wall back for the day so he can reenact Reagan and then have joyful masses tear it down again?

  72. Plural – but the real question: will David Hasselfhoff be there?

  73. Actually, there was a film made called “Triumph of the Will” about Hitler’s big speech at the Zeppelin Platz.

    It is considered the seminal work on video propaganda. The film shows the cheering crowds, then a plane descending from above, and then Adolph emerges like the savior of the German people.

    It was very powerful.

  74. One of the editors at our local paper who attended an Obama rally wrote that the rally itself was troubling – way too much adoration, plus uncomfortable with the prayer mixed in that was also an adoration.

    So if a simple rally is unsettling; yes, the acceptance speech might be over the top.

  75. Or will he say: I am the man who accompanied Michele Obama to Berlin? You know, just channeling JFK. The scenarios are endless.

  76. Leni Weisthalter or something produced that film. It was considered a technical masterpiece. After the war they prosecuted her.

  77. WOW , can bo bid virginia adieu ???
    ….maybe jim webb knows something … and doesnt want to lose his own job .. thanks regency ,
    bo’s dance card isn’t looking good he is going to be a wallflower at his own dance

  78. Obama has done absolutely nothing to deserve “adoring” crowds.

    It’s all fake, brought on by hubris.

  79. Then who remains on that short list of v.p.’s. Biden said he was not interested but if asked would accept. The same with Richardson. Edwards supposedly said no way. Has to be McGaskill or Sebelius. Women, Catholic, swing states.

  80. I sent this to the DNC “Honesty in Gov” link. Maybe someone will read it before I send it to McCain:
    I recently received another contribution request from Tom McMahon. Within the email body is the reiteration that The Democratic Party will follow Senator Obama’s lead in the renunciation of PACs. I appreciate Director McMahon’s sentiment. Unfortunately I am unable to comply for the following reasons:

    Senator Obama’s significant use of soft money 527’s and other organizations, such as MoveOn.org, Acorn, and especially the SEIU, lead me to believe that PAC’s are simply another organization in the campaign fund management structure. These soft money organizations have allowed him to husband his own funds in preparation for the General Election. I do not expect these groups to be disallowed. However, they deserve the same consideration in public discussion as PAC’s. All could use daylight. Senator Obama’s recent decision to continue without public funds indicates his reliance on the them. the Democratic Party should consider carefully the field that Senator Obama has ploughed. The field is comprised of half truth.

    Expenditures for Senator Obama, from all of the above, have been reported to The Federal Elections Committee, and are available for public review under Electronically Filed Independent Expenditures. However, it appears that most of the public has relied on the FEC front page expenditure map. Thus, most of the public apparently are not aware of this aspect of the campaign financing. that does not mean however, the public will remain unaware, and there is potential for backlash. I cannot participate in activity promoting half truths within the Democratic Party that I believe will ultimately be a spurious argument against Republicans.

    Senator Obama’s campaign has consistently minimized the above and lied about the number of “Donors” they have. David Axelrod, just recently on PBS, quoted a figure of 1.7 million donors. While this figure may accurately reflect individual donations, it does not reflect individual donors. FEC page p8000338 indicates Senator Obama’s individual May contributions with an aggregated sum of $200 or more have now reached 248,787. The difference between the amount of aggregate sum Individual contributions and the gross income is $8,028,388. This amount is most unlikely to account for remaining purported individual donors. Most small donors, like me, are actually providing multiple donations. One merely needs to read the words, or the FEC site, without doing the math, to see that “donors” and donations” are being conflated.

    http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/can_ind/2007_P80003338

    The “Obama for America” Campaign has promoted the donors canard from the outset. They deliberately used it as a campaign tactic. While the Clinton campaign chose not to make an issue of this, most surely at some point the others will.

    Over the last several weeks I have heard many reasons why I, as a 40 year liberal Democrat, should support Senator Obama, the Democratic Party and other party members. I have heard reported numerous times, that the Public appears not to care so much about campaign financing. Well, I am one person in the public stream. I have not supported Senator Obama’s position in this matter. Until the DNC makes public effort to rectify these matters, as I said above, no donations will be coming from me, in support of the “No PAC” policy Party.

  81. Listen, there are still diehards out there who swoon over Michael Jackson and rush to get OJ’s autograph. People are idiots when it comes to celebrities. How else to explain Madonna?

  82. Maybe they’ve seen the real poll numbers and feel The Precious train is going off a cliff? Who knows? Except for Kerry, Edwards or Judas (Richardson) it doesn’t seem respectable candidates want to be part of this. My hope is Hillary stays faaaaaar
    away from this guy. I can’t even stand seeing her momentarily sitting or standing next to him. Yuk. For her to have to haul his ass would be too much to bear.

  83. Yay! No Webb as VP for Obama.

    Does any Democrat want to be his VP?

  84. Pat:

    It was actually a movie brilliantly made and directed by Leni Rifenstahl.

  85. Everytime someone puts themselves out of the VP slot their stock goes up!

  86. I think that those dems that have “excused” themselves from VP duty have realized that it would not be in their best interest to be associated with Camp O. The Obama train may be derailing.

  87. Madamab, I will step up and take on that awful position. I am capable of selfless acts sometimes.

  88. PJ:

    MJ, OJ, and Madonna earned their fame. Obama has done nothing to deserve his.

  89. I find it so ironic that the guy who is supposed to be so great at reaching across the aisle, cannot even get the base of his own party to vote for him.

    The people that he (as a representative of the Democratic Party) is supposedly in total agreement with, won’t even support him.

    And he thinks that’s just fine.

    [pokes fork in eye]

  90. Mawm – OMG! For the good of the country indeed. Bravo, sir, you are truly a patriot! 🙂

  91. Mawm, there truly is no end to your altruism! However, I still cannot vote for the ticket with Obama at the top. Sorry.

  92. Pat, I would be telling everyone NOT to vote for us.

  93. MJ, OJ, and Madonna earned their fame. Obama has done nothing to deserve his.

    I think that’s why Obama loves to be seen giving speeches in large venues. The message is simple: “Guys, I haven’t accomplished anything, I have no core beliefs and I don’t even know why I want to be POTUS, but look how many people came out to see ME. That should tell you something shouldn’t it? What’s wrong with you?”

  94. MABlue – I think you’ve got it!

    It’s amazing how when Obama first started out, he got all these people to come to see him because Oprah was “opening” for him. Yet it was always reported as though they came to see him only.

    So much of what he claims to be is borrowed from others…and none of them seem to be Democrats.

  95. Hitler Rally; Delegate Hostages & Almost The JFK Speech

    On August 28, 2008, the delegates and super delegates of the Democrat Party will be in attendance at the Pepsi Center in Denver where they will cast their votes to select their party’s candidate for President. Over the shoulder of those delegates will be 76,000 gangsters ready to RIOT, if the unqualified one is not the nominee.
    read the rest makes a lot of sense
    http://countusout.wordpress.com/

  96. Me and some other were just brainstorming over at bitterpolitics and we had an idea. We’d like to start some kind of weekly “news” segment on YouTube to catalogue Bo’s miraculous flip-flops. I’m hoping to have them put up on the PUMA/Just Say No Deal YTube channel, if they’re amenable.

    Would anyone be interested in being a part of that? I’m not asking for a long standing commitment, just an interest. We’re trying to combat the duplicitous MSM with our own news. We’ve dominated radio, now it’s time to take the “TV” back.

  97. regencyg – that’s a really great idea! Dakinikat has a big list on her blog…she should definitely be in on this, since she’s been keeping such great track of them.

  98. You can find out who’s giving to what candidate here:
    http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php

    And another interesting piece on the o’s bundlers here: http://www.buyingofthepresident.org/index.php/stories/obamas_rainmakers/

    Both are great sites.

  99. the WSJ article (firewalled behind subscription) is VERY juicy.

    to read it go here:

    http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&um=1&tab=wn&q=Lynn+de+Rothschild+hillary&ie=UTF-8&scoring=n

    and click on the first search result. you’ll get the whole text.

  100. If anybody is interested, please email me at asabbeyaspossible@yahoo.com. Identify yourself please and where you’re from. *sigh* I expect spam.

    You may now return to your regularly scheduled un-reality.

  101. Madamab – awesome idea. I’ll get in touch with her right now!

    Thanks.

    *cough* We’ll need some of your awesome work, too you know. Gotta see that performed on YouTube.

  102. lol lol Mawm

    I could see you now -actively campaining for people NOT to vote for him! You crack me up

  103. barack obama does not know the words humble or humility. The guys got an ego a mile high. I hope it pours, thunders, lightning, and hails, it is an open stadium after all.

  104. regencyg – Oh! I get it. 🙂 Will email you now….

  105. Your analysis seems to be the exact opposite of the standard view Republicans fall in line, Dems fall in love.

    You suggested that for the Repubs they were loyal to Bush over party ideals, and that Dems follow the party line over the person.

    But I think the line vs. love explanation seems to be where we’re at.
    I think for the Repubs it IS all about what the party has determined are the goals. Set by the right wing branch who controls it. Or DID up until this year. I don’t think it matters who was the figure head as long as their agendas were pushed. They pushed as hard and as long as they could and now FINALLY the other end of the party pushed back. That is how someone like John McCain got in. Many Repubs I’ve talked with including on McCain’s site are very happy with him and they identify themselves as Mods of the party. I think it’s just the conservatives who for once didn’t get to set the agenda this year, are the ones grumbling over McCain, no matter how good a person or leader he may be, they’re not getting their agendas met this year.

    On the Dems side, I’ve ALWAYS felt that it’s the person not the issues that get us to the polls. Because the party issues are all over the place, we’re not monolithic or single issue voters like the Repubs. So to overcome that we need a figure head that motivates us regardless of where that person stands on issues. Gore and Kerry were BOTH drab ineffective leader types neither of whom could get enough people to the polls to get them the wins, even over the cheating tactics of the Repubs. I know I didn’t go out to vote for them. I didn’t want Bush but I didn’t want them either. And it didn’t matter how close they were to my views on issues. I just didn’t want THEM.

    The Messiah seems to be taking the “love me” aspect to new heights. This year not only do people not care where their leader is on issues, they’re even willing to vote against their own interests because they’re so in love with him.
    Since those who are supporting Hillary do seem to be issue oriented, I think we must be closer to the Republican way of thinking, but we also incorporate that part where we need the right leader to inspire confidence and a devotion in them to see them elected.
    Maybe we’re neither Repub or Dems. I know I’ve decided to switch to Indy at this point. I just can’t call myself a Dem anymore, not just because of this election but because of how the party has let itself fall into the same trap as the Repubs. in allowing the extreme fringe to take control.

    One this is for sure though, I do not think Hillary would have grown as a candidate and person to become the power player she now is if not for all the horrific things that happened to her, nor do I think people would feel so strongly for her. I think we would have been happy she got the Nom. but unless there was a viable option, it wouldn’t really have been a choice. It would have been her or nothing. If we were not forced to make a choice we would never have know just how much we need and want it to be her. Or how much she has earned it. She has now built up the kind of loyalty and respect that she would NEVER have had if not for this primary. So I suppose in that sense if there is ANY good to find in this, that would be it.

  106. I don’t know about anyone else, but I have been waiting to vote for Hillary as president since 2000. I just wish I had been more active in campaigning for her.

    I was one of those that just assumed she would get the nomination. Silly me. When you aren’t sexist or afflicted by CDS, you sometimes forget how much other people are.

    I am awake now, though. It may be too late for Hillary in 08(still holding out for a miracle), but I will be campaigning for her in 2012 starting Nov. 5th 2008.

  107. trist – Thanks for your thoughts! Obviously I disagree with you on the “love versus line” business, and I do think that a lot of Obama’s supporters are now drawing the line at FISA.

    However, certainly Hillary has been through the refiner’s fire in this primary, and has come through more radiant and stronger than ever. I must admit I didn’t think I could feel so positively about her, given that I was in the “Any Dem ’08” camp for quite some time. I was even pushing the “Dream Ticket” too. (I never liked Obama because of his right-winginess and his obvious lack of experience.)

    Still, I believe that if Obama had gotten the nomination in a legitimate fashion, without resorting to misogyny, race-baiting and corruption, then I would be pulling the lever for him in November. Because then, he would have won the base of the Party, proving that he is a Democrat.

    Trust me, I’m used to voting for people I don’t love. I never have loved a Democrat that won the Presidency, except perhaps Bill Clinton. We will have to agree to disagree on this issue.

  108. Great post on TGW by M.S., Why Obama’s Camp Isn’t Winning Us Over: http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/

  109. regency i emailed you at that address.

  110. Here’s a question for anyone who wants to weigh in. Do you think the DNC was more concerned with keeping Hillary out or getting their guy in?

    Because honestly, they must have felt this was their year. That ANYone they chose to push as the candidate would get in the WH. So why did they go with the Messiah who is so woefully unqualified with so much baggage like Wright,, Ayers, and all the others. I suppose they COULD have pushed someone like Edwards. So why didn’t they?
    My Bro. thinks it’s because they needed someone strong enough to compete with Hillary, and that wasn’t Edwards. That they figured with the Messiah’s ability to charm white voters and at least split the black vote that would make him a stronger contender.
    I’m just wondering if the powers that be knew about ANY of the Messiah’s affiliations, or real stances on issues? Or didn’t they think any of that would pose a problem for him? Or they just didn’t care?
    Or did they ACTUALLY believe he was and I guess IS the best choice for Pres.? I mean did they even know who the hell this guy was BEFORE they tapped him?

    I’m still not sure, was it more about getting who they felt was best or just NOT getting stuck with Clintons?

  111. Keeping Hillary out. Otherwise they would have waitng for 2012 or 2016 to run Obama after Hillary.

    They wanted her out so badly that they were willing to push him forward waaaaaay too early.

  112. I think they did not want Hillary. Kennedy was a major force in this. His relationships with women haven’t exactly been trouble-free, but that aside, Bill Clinton is the one challenge to JFK being the Democratic Presidential Icon. If Hillary got in, Bill Clinton’s legacy would be sure to surpass JFK and be more like FDR’s legacy, which is now seen as team Franklin and Eleanor (at least politically). I honestly think it is that personal. Because nothing Obama stands for is really like JFK. Obama will say or do anything. I don’t understand why it seems to be taking people so long to see these flipflops as extremely dangerous to the party. We’ll wind up with two right wing parties. Won’t that be swell?

  113. Mawm, my feelings exactly. Ditto, ditto, ditto. (Except I trace my wanting her as POTUS from the infamous baking cookies moment.)

  114. Oh Gawd. I’m going to get out that stretchy flesh-colored band to keep my head from exploding again.
    Things are getting more surreal by the minute.

    But I am “bat-shit crazy” enough to keep hope alive for this August. Let’s be crazy enough to not give up. We all no the bigger they are, the harder (and faster) they fall. Again, look what’s happened in a short few weeks.

    Of course they’ll restrict the airspace, allright. But can they restrict the space on Billboards and buses in Denver? I really like “You’re not the One”. Then add-NOBAMA ’08/PUMApac.org

  115. Thanks guys for the comments. I wonder then, if it’s MORE to do with keeping out Hillary does that mean they would be willing to give up winning this year? Again I was talking this whole thing over with my Bro. and I felt like they realize they can’t count on the Hill supporters, and now with the Messiah’s latest gaffes and flip flops even some of his die hard support is having doubts. These are the people who say they will STILL turn out to vote for him but are no longer enthusiastic, that is a BAD sign, especially THIS early. If the DNC feels enough heat to know they can’t win with the Messiah do you think they would put Hillary in, or that their desire to keep her out over-rides everything else. That they would take the loss?

    In my conversation with my Bro. I thought that even if they wanted to go with her, they wouldn’t because of the backlash from the black community. They have built up the Messiah so much now and the AA who voted and/or just support him will never accept the DNC denying him the Nom. now. Unless they first turn away from him, which isn’t likely to happen, unless he promises to personally bomb the US or bring back the draft, or something.

    I guess I should point out I myself am black, I can tell you several in my family are on both sides of this issue. Those that support him openly admit it’s solely because of race, and those that don’t see what we see, that he is not someone to be trusted in any way shape or form.

    But again, to save themselves from what could be potentially a riotous and violent backlash would the DNC just put him through knowing they will lose? I think they might have been willing to go with Hillary if not for that reason, but I just don’t see them doing it. It does seem either way they risk permanently alienating a significant chunk of the party. Either blacks or the Mods. women, and white working class, but I think they’d rather take their chances on them coming back after some distance is put between this election and the next, than forever lose the black vote.

    It is really just so sad what the DNC and the Messiah himself have done here. If they had JUST played fair and let the process happen on it own no matter WHICH one of them got it, we wouldn’t be facing what we are now.
    My fear is that they’re going to try to appease both sides, or at least his side and enough of hers by trying to get a joint ticket to ensure his win, so that we supposedly shouldn’t have anything left to grip about. But that to me is even worse. It would be a further insult to Hillary, just using her for him. And to vote for that ticket would just be validating what was done, not just to her, or her supporters but to democracy. I mean one of these sides (Repubs or Dems) HAS to do the right and fair thing at SOME point or pay the price when they don’t!

  116. trist: His race has nothing to do with my position. He is uniquely unqualified, lacks experience, talks out of both sides of his mouth, has no moral compass, lacks principles, is willing to disavow anyone standing in his way, left people to freeze their butts off in Chicago, has questionable associates, and I am unable to comfortably seeing him in the role of Commander in Chief as a result.

    I would apply this reasoning to anyone, male or female, black, white, brown, green. On the job training for President of the US should be based more than just words of hope and change.

  117. All this sutff about stadiums and the Olympics reminded me of Tommie Smith and John Carlos in 1968. Makes me want to raise my own arm high with determined resistance. Hell no, we won’t go!

  118. Hi Pat, I feel the same way. But my question was about how the DNC will handle this. That even if they know going with Obama will mean losing would they STILL do it because of the backlash from the black community? I thought maybe their decision might be different if the choice was someone other than Hillary as it’s obvious they do not want her no matter what. But because they ARE dealing with the issue of race that changes things. They might have denied him the nom if he were white, but I do not believe the DNC will risk what is sure to be utter chaos and retribution for axing the black candidate. Even if it IS the right thing to do.

    Because of what THEY did during this primary they got themselves and everyone else into an impossible situation.

  119. trist, I posted this in another thread, but I think the reason the DNC pushed Obama is:
    He’s black.
    It’s the forty-fifth anniversary of MLK’s “I Have A Dream” speech.
    It’s the fortieth anniversary of RFK’s assassination.
    Nothing. Else. Matters.

  120. Hey josgirl,
    I do think they thought that would help their chosen one get elected. By creating this “fairytale” scenario, perfectly framed with the events you sited. I think they hoped that would further encourage voters, particularly AA voters to get him the win.

    You know, early on in the primary while witnessing the absolute bias in the media. I came to see the way they were ALL treating this set-up, this idea that unless the Messiah won, it would be seen as the wrong person winning. I actually felt while rooting for Hillary, that if she got the nom, or became Pres. It would be treated as if we were facing yet another Bush term. That there wouldn’t be any type of celebration of what would have just happened.
    This was BEFORE I started coming online and discovering that others saw what I saw happening on tv, and that people weren’t all against her. I now know seeing Hillary win WOULD be celebrated, even if not by the media.

  121. Trist: a writer on another blog a few weeks ago (sorry, no link) felt that the DNC is prepared to lose in the GE because of all the money and young new voters Obama brought in. Young new voters is key because these people will vote Dem for many election cycles (like the run the Repubs got from the Reagan and the Young Republicans). I thought Hillary brought in her fair share of voters as well, but it didn’t seem to get the same amount of press.

  122. Thanks for that link on the ominous meaning of the stadium acceptance speech. I had not thought about 76000 Obama supporters lurking nearby as a subliminal threat to the peace. That must scare the bejesus out of Denver. Wow, that is hard ball politics. I pledge not to watch.

  123. trist, the MSM has been lying through it’s teeth the whole time.
    HRC had more support from the black community until Camp O launced Operation Clinton Smear.
    If you remember, early on J. Jackson,Sharpton, Cornel West, Earl Ofari Hutchinson and others were not on board.
    Then the J. Jackson, Jr., Brazile, Clyburn, etc. crew went on the offensive, blowing innocent comments all out of proportion, making it seem not only like Bill and Hillary Clinton were prejudiced, but that the whole of the black community agreed with that assessment.
    All the while he was getting a pass for saying things like, “I don’t know how black he is ’cause I’ve never seen him dance,” like being black can be legitimately minstrel-ized.
    That alone is enough to keep me from ever voting for him.
    I’d be willing to bet that all the other AA people who post here are just as outraged by that as I am.

  124. Hey jos,
    I just posted a comment in the newest thread about the racist charged labeled against Bill, it’s about the media’s part in it. It’s waiting to be moderated but please give me your thoughts on it when it’s cleared.

    I do believe the O-camp was always going to make that charge because they had to do SOMETHING to try and turn the black vote against Hillary. They knew if they didn’t have at least enough of it, there was no way their king would be crowned. So a lame “fairytale’ comment was the best that they could run with. The media helped it along, with many prominent blacks out front leading the way. But even so, the black community had the choice to give the Clintons the benefit of the doubt, or ignore nearly 20yr of a solid relationship and just turn on them. Sadly they chose to turn.
    I know that for Bill being smeared as a racist is something he will probably never get over. And unfortunately for him he allowed his rightful anger to lead him to say that thing about JJ. I know where he was coming from with it. He was hurt, and he said something back. But that just gave the Messiah even MORE fuel for their charges. You noticed now that is the ONLY thing they site when claiming Bill is a racist. It’s like the “fairytale” comment never even occurred now.

    SC was always going to go for Obama, just like Bill pointed out with JJ. but it’s what happened every where else with large black populations that may have been different if they hadn’t labeled him a racist. Truthfully, it just looks like as a community we saw a chance to have something we may never see come our way again, at least in our lifetime, and that has superseded EVERYTHING else. From what I see the black community does not know or care about the kind of person Obama is. Or his flip flops, or anything else. What they see is: “Black man, White House” and that’s all they need or want.

    The ultra liberals and starry-eye youths who support him may wane in their support as he proves himself to be a total liar and unwilling to keep his promises to them. But if your sole reason to vote for him is based on skin color, how can you ever hope to clue those people in, or change their minds about him?
    Unless you manage to pull a Scooby-doo where you lift up his face and there’s an ornery gold digger underneath, who WOULD have gotten away with it, if not for us meddling kids! And then he’d have to be something OTHER than black! ^_^

  125. Im sorry you feel the way you do. If Obama is elected despite your protest (because he’s not Hillary) Im sure you will be pleasantly surprised by how left wing he will be. Assuming that you want a left wing agenda as opposed to a centrist agenda. Bottom up economics sounds really nice, with a large majority in the senate it might just happen. I know most people on here… all 500 or possibly 1000 (10,000 at best) hate Obama more than the republicans, but Obama will still support your values even though you have decided he’s “an empty suit”.

    In regards to his recent centrist political posturing, just realize its just that, political posturing. Every president in history has done this, and the uber liberals are upset by this. The truth of the matter is you need to learn “how to work” this is politics. Do you think bush got elected by telling the American people what he was actually going to do? No, he pretended to be a “compassionate conservative” when in actuality he was probably the most right wing president we’ve ever had, not to mention the most naive.

    John McCain represents everything you should disagree with (if you are actually liberals). A womans right to choose, Economic and Foreign policy, every issue you believe in if you are a liberal will not be represented by John McCain.

    I hope somehow by november you will realize that Obama isnt so bad, but if you dont… Just remember that a McCain presidency will further erode the American economy as well as it’s reputation abroad. Do you really want a war with Iran? Iran isnt going to stop enriching Uranium so the only option is war right? America no longer has the resources nor the will to wage a war against Iran.

    The dollar is worth 50% what it was when president bush went into office. Our reputation abroad is the worst in US history. Our economy is in tatters. Do you really think we should vote for McCain simply because you think he “isnt qualified enough” and because Hillary was your first choice? Please for the sake of our country stop the fratricide.

  126. Barry,

    My distain for your argument is complete.

    When the primary started, the Obamabots said he was the New Man, a new kind of politican, above all that. HRC was evil – SHE VOTED FOR THE WAR. Barry has better judgement!!!!!!! She will SAY ANYTHING TO GET ELECETED THE B*TCH!!!!!

    And the stupid children of the light believed it and called her Evil.

    Until Barry does shows his real stripes. Now he is PRACTICLE and WILLING TO RETHINK and JUST NEEDS TO GET ELECETED and then he will show us HIS REAL SELF.

    GFY.

  127. Barry –

    Heh heh heh.

    When Obama was smearing Hillary and Bill as racists, and saying they had bad characters and judgment, that was just fine with you, wasn’t it? Bet you didn’t call it “fratricide” then.

    Obama’s corruption, collusion, race-baiting and misogyny have consequences.

    No Democrat has ever been nominated without winning the popular vote. No Democrat has ever been nominated solely through manipulation of red-state caucuses and disenfranchising key swing states. No Democrat has ever attempted to destroy the legacy of the most successful Democratic President since FDR in order to promote his own desperate ambition.

    Barack Obama is not an acceptable nominee in any way, shape or form.

    The one who committed fratricide is the Senator from Illinois. And he will pay the electoral price in November, should the party be insane enough to nominate him.

  128. Barry, Is that you Senator Obama?
    Anyway, right to choose?
    Not so bad?
    He’s just posturing?
    Have you been keeping up?
    Does war with Afghanistan ring a bell?
    That’s where the “change, hope express” is going.
    You have no idea what kind of president Obama might be.
    We can imagine.
    Has nothing to do with HRC at this point.

  129. I truly believe they only picked Obama because he was black. They knew that the first African American and the first female would knock each other out. I believe they went out and found the most racist, sexist, stupid black man they can find. I believe they did this to hijack the Party and make the Clintons a non threat.
    I agree that Hillary would not get the African American votes that Obama gets but she would get the ones that actually vote. I am also sick of the African American are going to riot crap. We are not animals. I also believe that Hillary would be able to win without them.
    I believe that Hillary knows they will not give the nomination to her because the party is hijacked. As an African American Hillary supporter I feel extremely angry at the Democrats because I feel that by selecting an unqualified black man who has issues with race and gender was really racist. I also have problems with a problem with a party that says they are pro woman and they allowed what happened to Hillary to just happen without a peep out of them.

  130. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,
    Together4Us

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