Continuing on a theme of enfranchisement and voting, I’m going to excerpt large swathes of this report from Alegre’s corner from the delegates themselves who were pressured and intimidated in Denver in 2008 to change their votes from Hillary to Obama. And in case you doubt the veracity of these accounts, here is a report from the LATimes.
These are their own words. Read it and weep. It really was a fraud.:
ARKANSAS: “I was so angry at the sham of a roll call that I just wanted it to be over… ” “the last time I felt such unbearable group pressure was on a jury” ” Obama representatives yelling, you’ll be sorry” to “hold outs”. It was brutal.”
An alternate kept calling out that the state voted 70% for Hillary yet recorded its 47 delegate votes for Obama – “how could that be?”
CALIFORNIA: Chris Stampolis reports “I cast my signed vote for Hillary this morning. It will be added to the roll call count for California”. Except, we may never know how California voted…
Delegate Ray Panko reports that, “The California vote was about 230+ for Obama to 160+ for Clinton which did not reflect the state vote. The process was completely controlled by the DNC and the Obama campaign. They had us all vote at breakfast. They took our votes and tallied them. They did this to see how close the numbers would be between Obama and Clinton. The aim was to prevent the public from seeing the closeness of the race. California passed because the Obama/Dean,Nancy Church(DNC) told it to pass. It was a sham, show, farce, gimmick.
Overall, the process was reprehensible. Each delegation was told a different story. No one was told the actual rules of the DNC which say delegates are required, in good conscience, to vote on the first ballot a vote that reflects the will of the voters who sent them to the convention. Gloria Allred was prevented from speaking to the California Hillary delegates to inform them of this rule and that it applies regardless of whether or not the candidate releases us or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…People understood that pledged delegates would do what they came to Denver to do – vote for one of the nominees to reflect the votes of those who sent them. We expected there to be respect for the 18 million votes and Hillary’s historic candidacy. We even thought that Super Delegates would be allowed to do their job – to select the electable Democrat. But that was not to be. Instead, the roll call turned into one chaotic caucus rigged to be sure that the final vote would never be known, without any sublety or reverance for the sanctity of the vote or individual obligations.”
A Super Delegate reported that “CA “passed” without ever recording its votes because the Hillary delegation stood firm and had the vote been given accurately, Hillary would have been temporarily ahead in the roll call”.
Clinton delegate and LA attorney Gloria Allred grabbed a napkin from the tables at the California delegation breakfast and wore it as a gag to protest not being allowed to speak at the breakfast. “I was not elected to be a potted plant,” Allred said through her gag, holding up DNC rules that say delegates must vote as they are elected. Californnia had 204 delegates pledged to Hillary Clinton, versus 166 for Obama.”
CONNECTICUT: “I felt blindsided, bullied, mugged. I saw delegates being verbaly arm twisted with threats of loss of positions.” “One Obama delegate was bright red, yelling right up in my face”.
FLORIDA: Barbara Bassett to Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz: “Do not be party to the DNC and its efforts to further disenfranchise the voters of our state. Had our votes counted on Jan 29, 2008, we would be looking at the nomination of Senator Clinton. Again if our votes counted on May 31, 2008 we would be looking at the nomination of Senator Clinton… Stand up and say, ‘We the People of the great state of Florida vote for Hillary Clinton’. I want to be heard, once during this election. I want to be heard. ONE person, ONE vote. I count, I matter. We voted, we spoke and we look to you to honor the integrity of our vote”.
Ladyhawwke: To Former President Jimmy Carter BY FAX: (404) 331-0283. “I am one of the 18m who supported Senator Hillary Clinton in her quest to become the first female president in history. I had hoped for a fair roll call in order that Sen. Clinton’s delegates would have the opportunity to vote for her as our Party’s nominee. I am angry and disillusioned. I have never seen such a farce that was perpetrated upon the American people by the sham roll call. Where were you when our voices were crying out to be heard? Why is it important to have fair elections abroad and not in the U.S.? Why were the delegates threatened by members of congress, Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean?”
A delegate insisted that someone take notice that the state, which voted heavily for Hillary and was punished by having its delegates halved, somehow announced 136 votes for BO and 51 for Hillary. At least 6 Clinton delegates had been replaced by Obama supporters before the Convention. Others were intimidated and warned their jobs and positions would be pulled.”
GEORGIA: (text message) “This is insane. They are yelling at the delegates to vote bo or their political careers are over”.
IDAHO: A delegate: “the feel was of a Republican convention, totally controlled and scripted. No humor or mistakes”.
ILLINOIS: “Bill and Hillary did way MORE for Obama than he ever deserved!! I am anxious to see how he will return the favor for them! He owes them both, big time!”
IOWA: “Does anyone think this has been a fair, open, transparent process? Voting before nominating speeches? Voting in front of people who have power over many of the delegates? No clear process to avoid ballot fraud? Remind you of caucuses??? Chaos and lack of clarity and consistency?”KENTUCKY: Moretta Bosley: “I was overwhelmed by e-mails in support of Hillary. I want you to know that kept my word and voted for Hillary despite strong pressure to do otherwise.”
A delegate: “Our Hillary delegation was shouted at, told that they would be perceived as racists, told that their careers would be over if they voted for Hillary. Perhaps because of this, Hillary had a private meeting to thank our delegates. Clinton won the state by nearly 40 points. Nonetheless, the roll call was annnounced as Obama 36, Hillary 24.”Martha Ziskind, a prominent Louisville attorney: “I’m feeling pretty disheartened right now, particularly by the media’s vitriol. Hillary didn’t just speak for the “undereducated”. If anything, her story strikes an all too familiar chord with well-educated, highly competent women of a certain age… My only comfort is that I know she will continue to make a name for herself in the Senate — and perhaps the Supreme Court”.
MARYAND: Donna Inches: I am extremely proud of the Clintons, however, I am no longer a democrat. I cannot forgive the DNC as easily, I cannot forget the caucus fraud, nor can I forgive the democratic leaders who allowed the mass media to treat Hillary in such a horrendous manner. I cannot ignore Obama’s unscrupulous associations or his dirty politics. He is not my candidate… My mom called me after Hillary called to suspend the roll call vote. I don’t believe I have ever heard my mother cry before. It broke my heart. She told me that her vote for Hillary is the last time she will ever vote. The despair in her voice was unbearable… I can only say, I will not be voting for McCain, but I will be voting against Obama.
MASSACHUSETTS: “What a contrast to the Olympics where in spite of the cutthroat competition, there is at least a veneer of sportsmanship and mutual support”.
MICHIGAN: Not only did Hillary not “lose by a tiny margin”, she lost through thuggery and cheating. And this is the man around which we’re supposed to rally?” “And as with MI earlier, unearned votes were taken from HRC and given to BO.”
MINNESOTA: “I voted for Senator Clinton today, and my delegation chastised me. I was told, ‘You just made your worse political decision, and it will be your last.’ At least I can sleep at night knowing I voted for what I believed in”.
NEW HAMPSHIRE: “What thugs they are. They make it clear that they really do not need us and have no intention of doing anything about the unity they mouth.” “Our state voted strongly for Clinton but was threatened that funds would be withdrawn. The state cast its votes for Obama”.
NEW JERSEY: “We overheard delegates from our state which had voted strongly for HRC saying that they understood DNC funding for local races in their state would be dependent on a unanimous delegation vote”.
A delegate was told “he needn’t worry about his vote – the totals for New Jersey were irrelevant, that the delegation was going to announce as unanimous”.NEW YORK: “My guess, with no inside information at all, is that no-one expected her votes to melt away or be driven away – that the BOs would be gracious enough to let her have her votes and she would then nominate by acclamation. That she did, but they had snarked away her delegates for maximum humiliation value”.
From her office, after being quoted as saying she would vote for Obama, a note that “Carolyn B. Maloney has asked me to inform you that she will be voting for Sen. Clinton tonight on the first ballot”. Except we may never know how New York voted…
Jeanne Wikler: “Driving west through the golden hills of the California desert I realized why, to me, Hillary is the true leader. While Obama gives you the impression that he is a special person, Hillary gives you the impression that YOU are a special person”. Lady Boomer NYC: (excerpts from Null and Void: Democrats Roll Call in Retrospect) “What exactly did we see on the “Democratic” Convention floor last Wednesday, August 27, 2008? Why was the roll call halted halfway through? Why did state after state in which Hillary won the primary election and a majority of delegates declare their votes for Obama? Who and what do all those delegates’ votes represent? As each “Great State of” our Union called out its numbers, I wondered, what was the actual delegate count? … The delegate count in this election was not a fair reflection of the Democratic Party electorate. 1) Hillary Clinton WON the popular vote. 2) There exists growing documentation, that caucus fraud was rampant. This occurred in the form of systematic, deliberate suppression, misinformation, pressure, and bullying, mishandling of voter and caucus rolls, and ignoring basic caucus rules. 3) Each delegate elected from a district or region in a primary state represents approximately 12,225 primary voters, but only 2,110 voters in a caucus state. Accordingly, a caucus delegate represents about 5.8 times fewer voters than one elected in a primary. So, when Obama “won” a caucus, each of those delegates stood for far fewer voters.
This is especially important in the general election in the red and swing states.” http://riverdaughter.wordpress…
Edith Padilla: ” Hillary was just fantastic! I was so proud of her. So proud to have been part of her campaign. The lady interviewed at the end on CNN said so much of what we all felt last night. Hillary is the one that should be our leader, we love and support her no matter what happens. Our party should be ashamed of themselves expecting her and Bill to clinch the deal for BO!”
Marcia Pappas: “On a personal level”. Those words are so true. I have personal friends who did not stand up for Hillary. I can’t even look them in the eye, break bread with them, or even make small talk. I have taken this very personal, and I know many other women who feel the same. I have professional friends as well, who did not support Hillary. Mind you, not many, but they were out there, and the tension was so great I could cut it with a knife.”
GN: I don’t know if in the future I’ll support the women who didn’t understand the importance of supporting the greatest symbol of women’s achievement. In sadness I wonder, where has all the Sisterhood gone? Generation gap? But even the women ‘of a certain age’ couldn’t reliably be counted on. And my closest friends didn’t necessarily get it. For how long has sisterhood imperceptibly been slipping away?
Mike Brady: “Watching her these past two nights….she amazes me with her grace and strength. Her friend Eleanor Roosevelt would be proud.”
“Getting up with grace, especially in the face of injustice and indignity is indeed a rare quality!!!”
PENNSYLVANIA: An elderly weeping delegate who wanted to vote for Hillary was consoled by several fellow delegates who said they were all sent to Denver by their friends and neighbors to vote for Hillary but, “no-one seemed to care”.
OHIO: Flo Gurwin After watching the convention proceedings in Denver, I certainly do believe in HIS change–his ability to continually change his mind. I do not trust him. I think he’s a snake and the scumbags surrounding him leave little doubt in my mind that he is not the sort of person I want for my president.”
Mary Anne Saucier, writing from the “home front” reports, “The Obama people are really angry, upset, scared, and thereby potentially dangerous people. After getting selected but not elected by the corrupt Democratic Party, Obama and his minions are now confronted by uncooperative voters. Yesterday, my neighbor, three doors north of my house called to say that two Obama canvassers, aggressively working both sides of the street, were on their way toward my house.
“They are trying to find out how people are going to vote,” she warned. My neighbor, just recovering from back surgery, is a feisty independent lady, as am I, and would not say. She figures that is her business and she owns her vote. My comment was that they probably would not stop at my house because I have a “Hillary for President” sign in my yard. We live on a busy street and my sign has been there since the early days of the Democratic Primary. Over all the many years I’ve put political signs in my yard, none have ever been stolen or in any way damaged or mutilated. What happened yesterday is a first, but not unexpected after what has happened this year to so many who have refused to support unqualified Obama. No one stopped at my house, but I immediately found my Hillary sign in a crumpled heap with one side slit to cut it off the metal frame. Now, I have another treasured war trophy to encourage the faint of heart to join the crusade for substance, democracy, and valid votes over vapidity, intimidation and fake control.”
OREGON: Sue Castner: “I DID scream “nay” when Pelosi called for the unanimous acclamation. When I told the Oregon DNC state committeeman I wanted it recorded, he said it didn’t matter. It was already recorded. So much for celebrating the passage of the 19th Ammendment on Tuesday.”
RHODE ISLAND: “I think the whole party just blew what should have been a Democratic shoo-in”. “Nancy Pelosi and The DNC insulted and humiliated the Clintons during this convention and it I can’t be the only one who noticed.”
TENNESSEE: Jackson Slade: To the Editor, NYT: “After hearing Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s superb speech, I must express my admiration for Senator Barack Obama’s confidence. By choosing Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. as his running mate, he obviously feels that he can win without her and her passionate supporters.”
TEXAS: Frances Morey: “I was less than enthusiastic about the impeachment of Bush AND Cheney because Pelosi would have been next in line for the Oval Office”. She also noted that “going into this convention Obama was flat-lining in the polls. If there is a bounce to follow we know who is responsible–The Clintons”.
“This morning I got my credential and was directed to go to another room. There I showed my badge and my id and indicated my presidential preference on a sheet next to my name and signed my name. This is the state tally sheet. Texas delegation officials, Boyd Richie’s staff and volunteers, have total control of this. They will use this tally sheet to report the Texas delegation totals for todays roll call vote at the Pepsi center later today.”
Blanche Darley, wearing a button saying ObamaNation Scares the Hell out of Me, on the impact of HRC’s speech: “We love her, but it’s our vote …we don’t trust or like him…”
Nata Koerber: “Hillary has a life-time of service to the Democratic Party and has done everything required and then some to encourage support of Obama. The responsibility of uniting the Party lies squarely in the lap of Barack Obama, and Joe Biden, Obama’s preferred choice for VP.”
A HRC pledged delegate, realizing that it did not matter how his delegation voted, announced that “it is obvious that the Obama campaign has no regard for the Clinton delegates or voters, that they were making it clear that Obama does not feel he has to treat us with even minimal respect.”
VERMONT: A demonstrator wondered if we would ever see totals, if there is a paper trail, and then corrected himself asking why anyone would believe it if one surfaced?
VIRGINIA: a delegate: “Maybe you noticed, excuse me but wasn’t that HER health care plan – the same coverage as offered to members of Congress???”
WASHINGTON: a delegate reports that the delegation chair did not hold a breakfast vote, telling the HRC delegatess to vote after what turned out to be the deadline, But in the end, “the
WA HRC delegation held firm, but never got to register its votes”.
WASHINGTON, DC: Nancy Beang: “Barack Obama…the audacity of hype. It’s really unfortunate that people are so wow’d by…nothing. Nobody I’ve met, young or old, black or white, (and I meet LOTS of people) can tell me WHY they support him, except to say he represents change. No list of accomplishments…even when I ask “what has he accomplished?” all those people just scratch their heads and look embarrassed. The anointers are going to be sadly & sorely disappointed. This was our Democratic year to pull it out, and I’m just afraid it ain’t gonna happen…it’s a good thing Hillary isn’t on the ticket…she won’t EVER be thought of as a loser.” “after her speech last night, no one can blame her when he loses. Obama funders and delegates heard grumbling that she did not praise BO enough or apologize for saying during the primaries that he had no experience. Unity or appreciation anyone? Guess not…”
A DC delegate: “Donna Brazlle in spite of her bluster that she would quit the Democratic Party if the SDs cast deciding votes, did not quit as promised and cast her vote with the DC delegation.”
Let me just add that if Barack Obama had won fair and square, I would have been happy to vote for him. But from the very beginning of the primary season, he showed contempt for the voters, the voting process and abiding by the rules and traditions of the convention. His whips were heavy handed, red-faced macho balls of fury, threatening, intimidating and brutish. By the end of the convention after all I’d seen and heard, Barack Obama was the last man on earth I would have voted for president. My vote for McCain was in protest of the unforgivable manner that the DNC treated its voters and delegates and the way it allowed its party apparatus to be highjacked by Obama’s thugs.
For those of you Obots who are still in denial, there was nothing acceptable about they way the convention was conducted. It was not merely political hardball. This was a full out assault on the delegates and its sole purpose seems to have been the absolute decimation of Hillary’s delegates and the humiliation of Hillary herself. It wasn’t just hardball. It was political murder.
The delegate count was close, too close for Obama. The threat of a floor fight was a very real possibility. But the delegates folded under threat of ending their political careers and the loss of money to state campaigns. THAT right there should tell Obama supporters everything they needed to know about Obama. They were willing to let downticket Democrats lose in November by withholding DNC campaign money. They were willing to smear holdouts as racists. Under pressure, they caved, too afraid to speak up. It was easier to go along with the crowd in spite of their misgivings.
THAT’S what Obama is all about: no better than some selfish, self-aggrandizing thug with his band of amoral campaign aides. No matter how you personally felt about Clinton, you owed it to your fellow party members and the people they represented to allow them to vote their conscience. If that meant that Obama was not a shoo-in, then you had a responsibility to show why he was so much better. It wasn’t your right to deprive others of theirs.
Well, you might have said back in 2008 that you didn’t know. But you don’t have any excuse this time around. 2012 is on your heads.
Filed under: General |
The Confluence 
And it all comes rushing back, like it was just yesterday.
People who just want to move on are not getting how serious the situation is. The party nomination was “arranged” in spite of the voters, whose states paid millions of dollars to stage an election. A private party allowed the taxpayers of all of these big states to foot the bill for elections and they chose to ignore the results. I call that fraud.
But it’s more than that. The manner in which Obama was nominated sounds like something out of Nazi Germany or Zimbabwe. The voters are flooded with propaganda, their perceptions are shaped. I don’t know how many “journalists” I ran into in Denver who asked the same stupid question: Why is Hillary trying to ruin Obama’s convention?
There was only one woman from the Boston Globe who seemed interested in following up on the delegate complaints. All of the others were so damn sympathetic for Obama who was getting pummeled by this selfish, mean spirited Hillary. Who the fuck did she think she was, anyway???
To them, it was all about these two personalities. The voters, the economy, the precedent that the DNC was setting, none of that was important. The whole charade was sickening.
Anyone who didn’t blow the whistle on the wrongs that were done to the voters in 2008 has no right to complain about Obama now. They only had to pay a minimum amount of attention to see what kind of human being he is.
I’m pointing the badge up there to this post.
Good idea.
One of the saddest things are the clueless. I understand the people committing the fraud. I understand the people fighting it. What’s hard to understand are the people standing by oblivious and acting like it wasn’t happening. And the ones with the jobs of “journalist” are the worse, because their job is to be curious and to see what’s going on under their nose.
It was the same in the midterms. Rand Paul was arguing against his OWN FUCKING words on YOUTUBE,, and he convinced enough of the morons in this state to vote for him. “Conway LIES!!”– even when all Conway’s ads showed were videos and news articles proving that paul was an idiot.
If there is karma, the fraudsters will come back as cockroaches (for their ethics) or stones (for their hearts).
Awesome, angry post. I just want to scream.
Go ahead get it all out, and still no one seems to get it in the Party, and Donna Brazil promised to make us whole again, after having VOTERS declared HALF A PERSON!
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!
Heartbreaking. The party died that day (if not before). I will never be a member of that party again.
Yep, I’m with you. the Democartic Party wil never be the same. They torched their base. We can never go back.
I am still a democrat but only because I want my vote as a democratic WOMAN to be recorded and noted every time I vote for a republican WOMAN.
LMAO — I didn’t think that far ahead when I mailed my torn up Dem. voter’s registation card to Howard Dean back in ’08!
Thank you for never letting the world forget the travesty!
Reading this made me short of breath and recalling the events still chills me to the bone. I haven’t voted for a D candidate since and doubt I will again unless, by some miracle, Hillary runs.
What BO did is unforgivable!
And what the DNC did, and what every then elected official did, and what every journalist there did is unforgivable.
it makes my heart ache.
Rigged primaries are the prime indicator of a dying party. They may think they can make us buy shit health insurance but they cannot make us vote for them. November was a preview of 2012 and I think they will have trouble even getting schmucks to run because it will be a waste of time.
New Longer Preview of We Will Not Be Silenced
http://wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/?ref=http://directorblue.blogspot.com
Interesting. Very interesting. The timing is especially interesting.
Wouldn’t it be great to have a legitimately elected President? The last one… Well, it was Bill Clinton, eh?
It is heartbreaking… all over again. We should never forget. Thank-you, Riverdaughter for reminding us how this travesty of an election came to be.
Don’t thank me. It was the 300 Delegates project and Ricki Liebernan who collected delegate stories and Alegre who posted them on her site. Then there are people like Lynette long and John Siegel who continue to keep it alive.
Dr. Linda Hayes also did a lot of work on the primary fiasco.
Thanks for the shout out, RD.
For context, the caucus fraud story was already rolling before I became aware of it as I was organizing in Texas. The Clinton boiler room in DC had been collecting the worst stories, not because they had the resources for an organized effort, but because some stories were so bad. The NV letter from the Hillary campaign to the state party is the tip of the iceberg. Since I’m a born networker, I received copies of some affidavits from various states, and have heard a number of stories from other campaign affidavits. I’m told that most of this information was presented to Dean, and he blew in off as not serious.
It used to be that that leftblogostan loved statistical information, but not in ’08. My view through the knot hole as the senior volunteer in El Paso, Tx, was that the Obama campaign threw their resources into caucus night, with operatives from out of state, attempting fraud in 20% or so or precincts. Since the HRC campaign owned El Paso and all other Hispanic TX counties, I suspected that things were far worse where BHO’s thugs were relatively unopposed. Sure enough, only three towns had similar caucus and popular vote numbers, El Paso, Austin and San Antonio. Statewide, the Obama people, via suppression and box stuffing, drove up his caucus numbers by 16% over Hillary’s win in the popular vote. This is in the same ballpark as the difference between unofficial popular votes and caucus votes in other states.
Texas was toward the end of the caucuses, so I had to look in a rear view mirror. Interviewing field staff, it turn out that the campaign never had an organized effort to catalog caucus irregularities. The only efforts, like seen in the NV letter, were ad hoc, a small sampling of some of the worst. I can say because I know a lot of people on the ground, only the most savvy people could process what they saw, and contact the legal staff to document it. As on any campaign, most staff is young and inexperienced. Ours didn’t know what to do when their caucus was overrun by mobs of people whose cars had Illinois plates in Iowa and in most caucus states.
More context: my knot hole was El Paso, and how it related to the voting patterns of the state. Everyone in Hillaryland (Hillary insiders and confidantes) knew about it. Experienced out of state volunteers experienced it. Odds were, about 1/4 of field staff, per caucus state saw it. When I pulsed the staff alumni group, I mined a few dozen statements, but largely because the witnesses all needed jobs in government, I had to rigorously protected their anonymity. That’s why, on WWNBS, the witnesses were mostly experienced vols whose incomes come from outside politics.
The confluence of information on caucus fraud can be traced to about five or six sources:
– Hillaryland. Elves in the campaign boiler room leaked a summary of contacts to a former congressional investigator, who then instigated WWNBS with Gigi Gaston, the director. Gaston and her client Sophie B Hawkins had been prominent supporters of the campaign.
– Lynette Long. She did yeoman’s work aggregating information from local print and other public records.
– Our documentation from El Paso and related analysis.
– Peniel Cronin, a tech and finance professional from AZ, who published statistical analyses at Talk Left, who we subsequently relied on for WWNBS.
– Campaign legal staff whose NV and TX letters were made public.
– Ricki Lieberman, a top fundraiser and supporter, who published the sort of information in this post to her large private email list.
Places you did not hear about caucus problems:
– The DNC, who had overall responsibility, and who buried the records.
– The national media. Natch. They had their story, and wouldn’t deviate from it.
The epilogue, if you will, is in the recent cut of WWNBS linked in this thread, and in the post. OFA’s behavior in Denver was identical to what Obama operatives did starting in the very first caucus.
The important thing to process is that parties are not governed by laws, but by rules. In states where there are not state-run primaries, parties rules are used, and no violation of rules will get a fraudster thrown in jail.
In his interview with Paulie Ables, Saul Alinsky’s son fawned over Obama’s adoption of Alinsky’s template for campaigning, and pointed out that his father had essentially one creed, that any tactic short of breaking the law should not only be used, but must be used.
And that’s what Team Obama did.
Major kudos to Lynette Long!!!
Oh, Shit! Thank you so much for posting this. It makes my blood boil, but that is a good thing as we must stop it from ever happening again. It also makes me weep that we don’t have the very best candidate in a time need.
I’ll never forget being called an Uncle Tom at the caucus site. I’ll never forgive either. I don’t hesitate now to shame those that voted for him.
Asshats.
Hillary 2012
because of your name I am assuming you are male, please correct me if I am wrong. I am also assuming you are African American because of the Uncle Tom comment, Please forgive me if I am treating you like an interesting specimen in a science experiment, but I can’t help but be curious about why you voted Hillary over Obama and didn’t you get incredible social pressure from AA friends and family to vote for Obama?
Indeed, it is a painful blot on the history of the Democratic party. Still, it was only the beginning. We got a dysfunctional, immature, fight shy, below average intelligent president that could have been called Bush instead of Obama.
It’s worse than that. It’s not that Obama is weak or stupid or fight shy.
He just doesn’t care. It’s that simple.
If you’re down on your luck, what do you want HIM to do about it? It’s hardly HIS fault. Quit being so damn whiny. He’s tired of hearing about it.
Yeah, yeah, the bankers are getting all the attention. That’s because he’s convinced that the finance industry is more important than you. Once he gets the bankers up and running, everything will fall into place. Even if it won’t. Either way, it’s YOUR problem, not his.
It is scary when you channel the President, RD — you do it so well!
Great post. In addition to Denver and caucus chicanery, we must remember Michigan and Florida voters were robbed of their votes during most of the primary — and 4 MI votes were stolen permanently.
djmm
I give you a five star for this post.
I wish there could be a challenger in 2012 but the DNC will never allow that.
Who are they to say what will and will not be allowed? The party or the party voters?
Democrats better find out about that toot sweet. Better not wait until July to find out that you really can’t stand Obama and want him out.
I am sure the DNC is strong arming all interested individuals to not run against The Chosen One. Someone needs to come forward to challenge Obama but I am afraid no one has the courage to fight the DNC.
Well, then, they shouldn’t be surprised if Obama flames out in 2012. I don’t know one person who is planning to vote for him.
Unfortunately, we’ll get stuck with a real wingnut like Huckabee (who is far, far more dangerous than Palin, imo, because he’s got a penis & therefore will not be subjected to ridicule over his prehistoric views/positions). Of course, that is what our coporate overlords wanted in the first place, so at least they’ll be happy.
Huckabee is a lot more kooky than Palin… and frankly, I don’t think the PTB want him either…
Talk about a flashback. Gah! I *almost* forgot what a thuggish a–holes Obots are. The thing that still irks the hell out of me are those morons who were talking about Obama being “more electable” than Clinton: HE DIDN’T EVEN WIN THE DEM NOMINATION! (I don’t count a person who cheats as “winning.”) Furthermore, the plain and unvarnished truth is that ANY DEM WAS GOING TO WIN in 2008! For the love of God — Obama won despite the fact that he is a completely and totally unqualified and sat in a church for 20 years where the preacher said “G.D. America.” If anyone thinks that doesn’t prove that any Dem, including Mickey Mouse, was going to win in 2008, they need their head examined.
Furthermore, the bitter truth is, the DNC knew that any Dem would win in 2008 & that is why they hand-picked Obama from obscurity & then bullied, cheated & carried Obama over the finish line at the convention — they didn’t want Hillary because she was going to be an actual FDR Dem. and not the corporate errand boy that they *actually* wanted in the WH. Point.Blank.Period. Anyone who doesn’t believe that also needs to get their heads examined.
That is why, for me, the Dem. party I always *thought* I belonged to, doesn’t exist & hasn’t existed for a very, very long time.
McCain and Obama were running neck and neck until mid-September (Obama got no post-convention bounce, IIRC). Only after Lehman collapsed did Obama pull away, because, I would argue, the Ds had “good will” on their balance sheet, from as far back as FDR, that they were better on “the economy.” After Obama’s performance, voters wrote down that good will, and 2010 mid-terms were the result.
I agree. Seems like the punditry was all over that angle at the time.
Actually, following the selection of Sarah Palin McCain moved into the lead in some polls.
Yes, that was McCain’s post convention bounce. “Neck and neck” doesn’t imply the leader didn’t change.
I meant to write in my original post that even though any Dem was going to for sure win in 2008, Obama was so effing bad that he *almost* didn’t — it took a rigging on the stock market to get him BARELY over the top v. McCain. But that was ok with the Dems because they got their errand boy. And really, McCain would have been ok too with them — the real agenda was stopping Hillary who wasn’t going to be kissing the banksters a$$es, but instead be helping — you know — US — with things like the HOLC, etc.
angienc-
You get it.
IIRC, McCain was polling even with Obama after the convention because enough Hillary supporters migrated to McCain. And Palin’s convention speech also definitely gave him a bump. Earlier in the Spring, both Hillary and Obama were polling comfortably ahead of McCain for the general.
“…any Dem, including Mickey Mouse…”
Mickey can’t be a Democrat. Reichsfuehrer Disney and his successors would never have allowed some union-supporting rodent to work for them. 😛
Just posted this to my Facebook account and was advised of the following:
“It isn’t any different than any other election. And I’m sorry, any time they have an interview with Gloria Allred, they loose me on that alone. She is a attention seeker of the worst caliber and I take what she says with a grain of salt. … But as far as the delegates go, this is what happens EVERY election, you just don’t hear about it until it’s a black man who won the votes. The Clinton’s did FAR worse during Bill’s campaign, so yes, it sucks, am I surprised? Not at all, except that two years later they are still bitching about it, which lends some veracity to the claims of racism on behalf of Bill and Hillary and their supporters. Not all of them of course, but the word was out there during PA primary, and it got ugly. I think two years later it’s just sour grapes. Hillary is perfect in the job she has, and it suits her autonomous nature.”
The Obots live on in their delusional world.
This was NOT a typical convention and delegates are not harrassed like this. Let’s not forget that for FDR himself, there were multiple floor votes for him to win the nomination. And as far back as I can remember, the roll call vote wasn’t edited to prevent one candidate’s delegates from being recognized. Oh sure, they always fix it so the nominee’s state puts him over the top but I can’t remember one convention where someone’s delegates were shut down.
It makes a big difference. It started when the DNC punished Florida and Michigan’s primary voters, who were penalized through no fault of their own. And it ended with outright theft of delegates.
As a voter from NJ, I know what your friend does not. I watched Jon Corzine give my state away to Obama unanimously when Hillary Clinton won this state by 10 points. That was grossly unfair to those of us who campaigned for Hillary and cast votes for her. Corzine had no right to substitute his judgment for ours.
I watched the 1992 convention. Jerry Brown was on the ballot.
During the roll call vote AFTER Bill passed the number needed to win Brown came out and made a motion to change it to an unanimous voice vote.
Well, that’s because we do not humiliate men. We leave their dignity intact.
Women deserve no such considerations.
Yup, the First viable Female Candidate Denied a Roll Call for POTUS and VP too.
that’s because powerful women are so scary to many men and also some women.
Delusional and perfectly ok with cheating, bullying & disenfranchisement. I wonder if they were ok with the results of Bush v. Gore in Florida. If they were, then at least they are consistent.
You can pass this on to your friend. it’s the delegate count from the Democratic convention in 1980. Kennedy didn’t win the majority of delegates but his delegates were all counted in the roll call vote.
BTW, this was the first convention where one candidate tried to get the delegates from his opponent released from their voting obligations. The candidate who tried it was Ted Kennedy. And who did Kennedy support in 2008?
Contrast the primary map for 1980:
with the primary map for 2008:
Now, you tell me how the woman who won all of those states in gold managed to score a little over 400 delegates in the roll call vote at the convention when the guy in the top map who scored all of the states in gray got every single one of his delegates counted.
I guess it’s different if it’s not your guy, right? If it’s someone that 18000000 other voters wanted, then it’s OK to deep six their votes. Is that what your friend is saying?
The candidate who tried it was Ted Kennedy.
Well golly gee — Obama really *is* the heir to the Kennedys!
I would delete your comment but I’m laughing too hard.
Look at that map of 2008. How the fuck did he end up with the nomination??? It’s insane. There’s nobody in the west and the south has the vast majority of adrican american voters, which amounts to ~12% of voters in the entire country. Those southern states are almost all Republican states. In fact, Obama won the majority of the Republican states and very, VERY few Democratic states. But the DNC just handed it to him on a silver platter.
It’s stupid beyond belief.
Here’s the general election results. Essentially, Obama won the states in the primary that eventually went to McCain in the general.
The whole thing is back asswards.
Arizona Dems voted for Hillary. The delegates went for Obama. One of them – Gabrielle Giffords (my representative, sadly) never endorsed anyone, then took money from Obama’s PAC and suddenly gave her delegate vote to him.
I have been screaming ever since – I will never vote for Giffords again. Every time one of her robo calls comes in I let ’em have it. She is a shame to her gender.
Many of Obama’s Republican state wins during the primaries were because those states had caucuses.
Minnesota hand Barack Obama 48 delegates to 24 for Hillary Clinton. How is that even possible?
I just realized that the numbers are electoral college votes which are distributed proportionally based on population.
So, to recap, in the 2008 primaries, Obama racked up ~175 electoral college votes and Hillary racked up 312.
Maybe you ought to ask Donna Brazile’s good buddy Karl Rove how that happened.
Two years later (and probably beyond) it sure worked out great for him and the GOP.
Just a coincidence, I’m sure.
I wouldn’t exactly call him a friend, but I will pass it along. Thanks for the stats. Off to do battle.
Good luck with that. Logic is the Obots kryptonite.
They counted all of Jesse Jackson’s delegates, too, way back when.
djmm
Compare those purple states to the list of caucus states and red states in the general election.
Obots live in a fantasy world. Two years later, they are still race baiting. That’s all they have. What idiots.
I would unfriend the a$$hole who wrote that… after asking them to prove the Clintons did worse.
If you want proof check Obama’s website.
this it a classic post RD .
and we should never forget what happend ever
.
it was like the The Twilight Zone. or something.
The Outer Limits, I think. The Twilight Zone often had an element of justice.
djmm
The decision was made at the RBC meeting with it’s “sunshine” rule that everything would be done in public- only they (them, those, IT) decided the sunshine rule suddenly didn’t apply “and we’ll just take care of this over lunch- um without you public folks watching…. It’s not that we’re hiding anything.. We’re just shy eaters.” and then those noble souls decided they didn’t even have time to discuss their decision or methods… “cause they didn’t wanna be late getting home for dinner.”. What is our democracy compared to FDR’s ignoble rat bastard grandson’s dinner plans?
And yeah heartbreaking bs at the convention. Couldn’t watch it, obvious the fix was in.
Documentation on that. Just for the record…
I think I did the number of caucus voters per selected delegate calculation back in 2008 and came up with 12 caucus voters had the power of 100 primary voters.
Additionally, Illinois moved up its primary voting date from the end of March 2008 to the beginning of February 2008. This gave Barack Obama a huge momentum push going into the Great Plains Caucus contests, which the media then reported as an 11 state winning streak for Barack Obama when over half of those victories were in Republican stronghold caucus contests.
http://www.caucuscheating.com
http://www.fair-reflection.com
Then to mask the fraud over the untraceable pre-paid credit card donations, Obama adopted a “50 state strategy” so his campaign could money launder his donations more evenly.
Out spending Hillary Clinton by 3-1 and 4-1 in the swing states still left Barack Obama 10 points behind, so he had NO CHOICE but to spend his stolen money in all fifty states.
I wrote most of my articles at http://www.hillary-wins.com which documented the day to day attacks against Hillary Clinton by the media. These attacks were led by Huffington Post and Keith Blabberon.
Something else to keep in mind, the story about the primary in 2008 claims voters turned out in record breaking numbers. Yes, sort of in some states, but what it really amounted to was 27% of eligible voters went to the polls. 27%! That was our record breaking participation level. Were I live, less than 10% of registered voters attended a caucus and on the Dem side the caucus was the only thing that counted towards selecting a candidate. So in my area, Obama was selected by less than 10% of the voters.
Again for the record, the affidavits of caucus fraud in TX are an important piece of the puzzle. They used to be at wampum, but aren’t accessible there now, I think because they rebuilt their site. Here is one contemporaneous post, and another.
For whatever reason, the affidavits never went to a court case… But they still exist. Somewhere.
UPDATE Ooooh, documents. I’ve been away from this too long…
thank you, RD–you document the ‘horror’ in a comprehensible way. None of us will forget–I just wish that everyone knew.
Heidi li feldman worked her butt off to get a lot
of this info out in real time, that is during the dnc. Nobody but Clinton supporters seemed to care,
Yup and she set up 51%, but the domain has expired and it is no longer up.
http://www.fifty-one-percent.org/
Most disappointing really…
It is not pleasant to revisit this ugly, unhealed and gory wound. It brings back to me all the feelings that went with that time. I was really down; I can not begin to imagine how HRC felt. I remember worrying about her picking up and moving forward again—it was sort of an “affair” flung before the public but in some way so much more vicious than the personal one. It was in this moment as HRC moved forward with such grace and power that Hillary crossed a line with me and became so much more than a political leader. I hope I am still around in another 20 years or so to read what historians say about this time and this woman. I hope she is attended by the best historical mind of the age and gets her just due.
I have re-read this a couple of times now along with the comments and it seems in hindsight even worse that it felt in real time. I think I was in shock and disbelief at the time. I wonder if the gutter dog ever feels the fear of some Dante circle of hell reserved for those who have profited in unseemly ways from scum thuggery
The morning the delegates were voting in their Denver hotel rooms, we were doing visibility on the street the closest we could get to the convention hall. A Tennessee delegate came out at lunch time and told us about the coercion being used within the delegation: “…if they didn’t f*ing vote the way they were told, they would never have any political future in that state again.”
Here’s a comment from someone who witnessed it.
http://camelsnose.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/what-a-denver-democratic-convention-free-speech-zone-looks-like/#comment-6277
Yes, I had it on video, but would making it public help Hillary? No, I decided, and it would probably harm the delegate too. I deleted the footage before the end of the day so I wouldn’t be tempted.
As Alegre points out, the internet can be very scary and people still have to make a living in their communities. But we heard what we heard.
I voted for McCain too, but I actually wished he would have won because I am convinced he would have been satisfied with one-term, made sure Palin was “Bidened” and inadvertently (or maybe not) made it easy for Hillary to win in 2012. I perceive McCain as an old-school Republican, willing to say anything to get elected, but secretly resentful towards an increasingly fickle and obnoxious base. And knowing what I know now of his economic adviser, I’m convinced he would have steered the economy better: Bush tax cuts would not have been extended (and we would have known that back in July), Citigroup would have been forced to break up, ie, too-big-to-fail would not have been institutionalized, and instead of health care reform, immigration reform would have been the major legislative focus of his first two years. If anyone can save Labor in the US, it’s the Latinos, but without rights on top of fears of deportation, their voice is neutered. McCain was willing to give them something via amnesty in 2006 and there was quite a bit of blow back from the Republicans for this, especially from Rush Limbaugh. I really believed McCain wanted the last laugh there and nothing motivates better than a little vengeance (or is it redemption?)
I agree with a lot of what you wrote about McCain — especially Hillary winning in 2012. One thing for sure — he would not, in any way, shape or form, been worse than Obama and *may* have been a tad bit better. Plus, when he lobbied for the regular old GOP cr@p (as Obama does frequently – like extending the Bush tax cuts — if he did that) then there would be an actual opposition instead of screams of r@cism for daring to critize the POTUS.
I thought John McCain would have been more liberal that President Obama. I wish I were wrong.
djmm
That’s why I voted for McCain…with Hillary 2012 as the first goal. There was a time when I would have happily considered voting for a more mature Obama down the road. But now hell can freeze over before I ever consider voting for him. His campaign cheated, race baited, insulted women, and somehow got the DNC and the mainstream media a mile deep in the tank for him. Disgusting. I was ashamed to be an American in 2008.
More mature as in more mature cheddar or gouda?
Still i think even if it matures there are better cheeses out there!!
Jeanne Wikler: ”Driving west through the golden hills of the California desert I realized why, to me, Hillary is the true leader. While Obama gives you the impression that he is a special person, Hillary gives you the impression that YOU are a special person”.
Oh so true. Sad to think what could have been.
DAMMIT!
Still incredibly unbelievable that the caucuses, RBC, and Convention could be so hijacked. I never expected any good for the American people to come out of this, but didn’t think that the roof would fall in so fast. Karma is a bitch.
Really? I didn’t think it could end any other way. As Lemony Snicket would say, “It was a bad beginning”.
its was bad beginning”. and in just about every other way i can think .
05-31-08 was indeed the day democracy died .
but it was also the day puma was born .
I love Lemony Snicket–it was a ‘bad beginning’ and the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
I belive I’m quoting RD — when a man campaigns like Genghis Khan, you can’t expect him to rule like Ghandi.
The roof falling in was obvious to anyone paying attention to what Obama *told them* instead of their own wet dreams. But, even I didn’t expect it to get so bad, so fast.
It just seems like someone really needs to write a scathing book that chronicles all of these misdeeds – someone with excellent writing skills (maybe someone who’s honed her skills writing a growing, insightful, yet snarky blog!).
Given how popular political books are, I just can’t imagine how you couldn’t get some press – even on FOX(gasp!) if nothing else.
This story needs to be mainstreamed. MAINSTREAMED I say.
One memory of 2008 that is still vivid is the night of the Florida primary.
It was an official state primary authorized by law, but the media ALL insisted on calling it a “presidential preference poll” and/or a “beauty contest.”
I call that being complicit.
“Thick as thieves” is the expression that comes to mind.
How many times did the media try to declare Obama the inevitable nominee? The first time was Iowa.
Well, come on, do the math. After Iowa there was no way she could win. Duh.
I honestly don’t know how you continue to engage in politics. I’m the worst sort of fence-sitter. I care…but I’m so dispirited I’ve mostly withdrawn.
Once or twice a week I’ll tune in to Daily Howler or here or elsewhere to sort of tease myself. Political thoughts are now an addiction I wish I could break because I know my vote doesn’t matter. It’s self-pitying and pathetic. I know it, but don’t know how to change it.
https://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/thursday-how-to-depress-a-rat/
Poor you. Try yoga.
Hey, don’t mock yoga! (I’m one of those pretenious yoga mofos) 😉
*actually, I’m not pretentious about yoga, but I do loathe the yoga poseurs (you know, the ones who have been doing it for a year or so, when it became “cool” and think that memorizing a few chants in sanskrit makes them all enlightened) and, of course, my hating those mofos means I need to work more on my practice and not worry about what they’re doing on their mats, but gosh darnit, it is HARD not to hate them, so the whole vicious cycle just goes on & on.
😉
You should have been here Friday night when a bunch of people were talking about HNY
HNY – hot naked yoga
I’d like to see Olbermann out of a job, Donna Brazile no longer commenting on cable, and the misogynist blogger boyz back in their parents’ basements.
From your lips, to God’s ears.
Oh here’s one New Year’s resolution I have.. Giving more Obots I meet the benefit of the doubt…not assuming right off the bat that they’re complete idiots. It’ll be tough but I’m going to try. 🙂
IMPOSSIBLE!
You might as well ask for the moon.
If he wants to find an Obot that isn’t a complete idiot we’ll have to give him a lamp like Diogenes
You know I think it would be easier to find an honest man than a smart Obot.
Cracking Nuckles:
1. 2008? You are posting links from 2008? I mistakenly thought that there was some new argument here. There is not.
2. There is nothing wrong with lobbying delegates to cast their vote for a candidate. That is not “fraud”. That is politics. If Hillary had been in the same position as Obama at the Convention, the same thing would have happened in reverse . . . and it wouldn’t have been fraud either.
There is absolutely nothing in anything listed above or anywhere else to indcate fraud at the convention. Bill Clinton, Obama, Hillary and the other leaders of the party understood that simply providing a symbolic vote would only undermine Obama’s legitimacy and aid McCain so they did what was best for the party . . . which is how it should be.
If someone disagrees with me, please provide a short quote of a fraudulent occurrence and I’ll be happy to address it directly (assuming it’s not the unverifiable words of a Clinton supporter). The bottom line is that Clinton supporters are every bit as prone to mislead as Obama supporters are.
If your position is that you believe everything a Clinton supporter says and nothing that an Obama supporter says, you are conceding that you aren’t capable of being a fair arbiter of the facts.
And that’s obviously what’s happening here. Every word of every Clinton supporter is the Gospel and beyond question just because they supported Hillary.
Ridiculous.
You’re completely nuts. You’re so stunningly backwards and delusional it’s hard to know where to start. There’s no logic. Really, no thinking, rational person to even argue with. So I’ll just say, best of luck there with your GWB II president and the destruction he’s leaving in his wake. You’re a tool of the mega corporations and they’re laughing all the way to the bank.
lol, Obama must really have feared that he had no real credibility, since not allowing a regular role call vote is NEVER done.
he got the nomination the same way dubya got the presidency, by cheating and manipulating people to break the rules of democracy. Illegitimate leaders never do good things for the country.
And uh, admitting that you voted for John McCain . . . that’s rich.
Imagine if he had won.
Anger makes otherwise decent people do very dumb things.
I get that you are angry that Hillary lost. But it did (and continues to) cloud all perspective.
By the way, seniors get free check ups without co-pay starting this week because of healthcare reform.
If Riverdaughter had her way, McCain would have won and that wouldn’t have happened.
There is no such thing as a symbolic vote when our country is at stake.
You are so pathetic — trolling threads a day later to spew your delusions in the relative safety that no one will see them — because, to quote Jack Nicholson: YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH. Obama sucks — and after 2 years as POTUS everybody knows it! BWAHAHAAHAHAHA You voted for the heir of GWB!! Keep the faith, dumbass.
I only let him out of the spam dungeon so people could play “Whack the Troll.”
nope dear dumbass black guy, seniors get ONE free check up and screening when the first get medicare, not ever again.
Must be grating on you that Obama is such a bomb. Otherwise why would you bother coming here and lying?
Most steadfast Obama supporters I know are authoritarian in nature…bleeding into fascist. It really shocks me how many younger and white male “liberals” really believe they are the fount of wisdom. they seem to to have Ayn Randian delusions of being supermen & women. What’s more shocking is how deeply ignorant these people are on the natural sciences, policy and Geo-political history. They seem to have frat-boy educations.
I’ve noticed the same.
The main ones that seem to be hanging on are either libertarian/republican types that are pretty OK with the way things are turning out (even saying good riddance to social security and medicare), or they’re just so far gone in delusion land, like GWB’s 25% worshipers, that they border on padded cell behavior when you try to talk with them. Or, if not the latter, perhaps they’re just paid trolls like ABG above.
And by the way, at least for the libertarian/republican (and funnily usually authoritarian) types, they wanted and got the kind of person we have in Obama, so they’re more honest at least.
“But the delegates folded under threat of ending their political careers and the loss of money to state campaigns.”
how corrupt is that?
geez — remember how we watched it RD & Co?
geez and you know what? — look at the backlash and the bs and the palinpalooza.
I don’t think anybody is fooled. Media got money — and look at what they are trying now?
I feel nothing but disgust. ps: it was really interesting how the Hillary mailers appeared “after” the day of the election and that there were no lawn signs avail. Pure bs. She won CA, though and we don’t forget. Ever. 2012 is a nightmare — a mess.