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Centrism, Triangulation and the Netroots

With this week’s Netroots Nation starting today, there will be two viewpoints represented: that of the centrist (aka EEEEEEVIL) DLC (represented by DLC leader Harold Ford), and that of the virtuous, pure, liberal/progressive netroots (represented by Markos Moulitsas of the Daily Kos).

Or so they would have you believe.

When the “progressive” blogosphere burst on the scene several years ago, I could not have been more thrilled. I was so tired of the corporate media covering up for the Deciderer and his criminal and anti-American activities. Here, at last, with the help of Talking Points Memo, Daily Kos, Huffington Post and Eschaton, I could find like-minded individuals who wanted to know what was REALLY going on and who had the resources to find out. I also could take action by joining Moveon.org and Democracy for America. It was a heady, wonderful time for me, and I thought we were all on the same page.

Then, things began to change.

IOKIYAR, the ironic bloggy appellation for “It’s OK If You’re A Republican,” suddenly morphed into IOKIYO – “It’s OK If You’re Obama.” No matter how many rightwing frames and positions Obama took, no matter how he insulted women, gays or African Americans, no matter how much he lied about Bill Clinton’s record and smeared him and Hillary as racists – It Was OK. He was Obama, and besides which, he was not a Clinton, and….because that’s why! Nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh nyeh!

The incredible irony of it all was that Markos pretended he didn’t like the Clintons because of their “triangulation.” Yet Obama, that progressive Jeebus of the blogosphere, has been triangulating much more than Hillary and Bill ever did – and in ways that are destined to reach out to Republicans and Independents, not Democrats.

Take, for example, Hillary’s AUMF vote. This was THE excuse for Hillary Hatred in the “progressive” blogosphere. Now, I can’t tell you how much I disagreed with that vote, but I believe that Hillary was doing her job at the time. Why? Because it was what her constituents wanted. It’s hard to imagine now, but back when Bush pushed that awful legislation on the Congress, support for an invasion of Iraq was very high. We liberal/progressive/dirty fucking hippies were in the minority. So, despite her misgivings, which she stated very eloquently on the floor, Hillary voted for the resolution. Had Bush abided by it, we would not be in Iraq now.

As badly as that vote turned out, it was aimed at the center. Not, however, the center of the rightwing conservatives in the Republican Party, at which Barack Obama seems to be aiming, with his massive outreach to evangelical Christian voters, abandonment of his promises on telecom immunity, and ever-fuzzier language on abortion, gun rights and Iraq. No, that vote was aiming at the center of the Democratic Party – which, I believe, is the center of the American political psyche.

Hillary Clinton’s phenomenally successful Presidential run showed me that the center of the Democratic Party is where the country feels most at home. 18 million voters came out to say “Yes!” to Hillary’s populist, New Deal-style platform. Hillary won more votes than any candidate, male or female, had ever won in a primary contest.

Senator Clinton’s voters completely ignored all the machinations of the media and the DNC/Obama conglomerate. They were told their votes wouldn’t count in Michigan and Florida, but millions voted anyway. They didn’t listen to the grandiose pronouncements of Hillary’s early demise after Obama’s long run of victories in February. They didn’t care that Obama was being declared the winner before all the votes had been counted. Time after time, Hillary showed her incredible strength with the poor and the working class, chalking up 40-point wins over Obama in West Virginia and Kentucky despite their lateness in the primary calendar. The enthusiasm of the Clinton voters could not be denied.

Yet Hillary was not good enough for the netroots. Her voting record was 91% progressive, her platform was more leftist than Obama’s, and she had the experience and competence to clean up the giant pile of poop the Chimp has left on our country’s carpet.

The netroots didn’t care.

They called her every name in the book. They expected her to quit in February, although no candidate in such a close race for the nomination had ever done so. They said she was divisive and ruining the Democratic Party. They made up ridiculous stories about how she was darkening Obama’s skin in a video and spreading a picture of Obama in “Muslim garb.” They sneered at her physique, her clothes, her shoes. Obama called her supporters in Pennsylvania and Ohio racist, bitter xenophobes, and the netroots were more than happy to perpetuate with those stereotypes. They said she was crazy, a stalker, a character in a Monty Python movie. Are we to believe that a pure desire to purge the Party of “triangulation” and “centrism” are really the source of this unreasoning bile?

I certainly do not believe it, and neither should anyone who has been paying attention.

So where is the battle for the true soul of the Party being fought?

It’s not at Netroots Nation, where the struggle is one of power rather than of principle. Markos is fighting for a seat at Obama’s table, and he means to have it by hook or by crook.

No, the ones battling for the soul of the Democratic Party are Hillary Clinton and her PUMA supporters.

We aren’t at Netroots Nation, because neither the Markos coalition nor the DLC speaks for us. We are here, around the “Internets”, doing our daily actions, contacting superdelegates and the DNC, and fighting to keep the FDR/Clinton wing of the party alive.

Because that, my friends, is the true center. And I hope that after the November election, whatever happens, PUMA will keep fighting for that center, and pushing for the populist, liberal agenda that the netroots and the DLC have abandoned by backing Barack Obama at all costs.

The good guys are going to need all the help they can get.

112 Responses

  1. PUMA

  2. Carol –

    You know, maybe I should have just written that.

    🙂

  3. Very good, thank you.

  4. I greatly appreciate all of your information. I just realized in the last 24 hours that these thugs are the ones running everything. They need to be put down.

    I intend for us to put “them down.”

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rule!

  5. I was shocked when I read the home page of PUMA pac. Murphy and others have received death threats. the list keeps growing. I just made a contribution to the Denver Group and PUMA. I cannot write stirring and insightful posts, but I can burn up a credit card….ask my husband! PUMA!

  6. good explanation of the “whole thing.” Think I”ll read it again.

  7. imustprotest – please post the details of your contributions for Hillary’s debt. We are running the total.

  8. Amen sister. I agree with everything you wrote (actually, I agree with everything you ever write). I’m glad you are reminding people about the atmosphere in this country leading up to her AUMF vote — especially in New York — the scene of the crime and the state she actually represents. I would only add that she (as well as all the other Senators) had Colin Powell (a credible source — at least at the time– if there ever was one) assuring them that W wasn’t going to use to start a war in Iraq. The pro-Obama club doesn’t care about the facts because it has only ever really been the anti-Hillary club. They can parse it, they can excuse it, but they can’t hide it — the kool aid is laced with CDS. The “progressive netroots” is dead. Long live PUMA.

  9. Teresa – I’ve been wondering about you… good to see you!

  10. This blogger believe in opinion, but based on facts, not threats and a cultist mentality.

    For example, today I’ve posted an overview of what’s happening in NM re: fundraising for McCain as well as downticket Dems and Republicans. In what may be a critical swing state, this sort of information is important to get out there instead of phony polls, etc/

    Of course, do the occasional review with snark, but it is built on examples and argument, not hysteria.

    Please do visit…

    NM Money: McCain Rakes it In; Downticket Money Update; and I Receive My First Democratic Fundraising Call…
    http://preview.tinyurl.com/6m3ew5

  11. Madamb, great post. Truer words were never spoken. Thanks for the link to HRCs floor speech on her AUMF vote – inspiring and insightful. She reflected the exact same feelings I had at the time…as a last resort.

    If only we could go back to those days and derail the tragedy of this war.

    When can I have Hillary back?

  12. Sorry for the typos…etc.

    Of course, I …do the ….

  13. People being threatened for just holding a point of view is one of the most subversive activities than can be perpetrated by the opposition.

    They play on our most common denominator: fear. Beginning to remind me a lot of the 1930’s when intimidation was used to keep the populace in line.

  14. angie – Word, sister!

    The pro-Obama club doesn’t care about the facts because it has only ever really been the anti-Hillary club. They can parse it, they can excuse it, but they can’t hide it — the kool aid is laced with CDS. The “progressive netroots” is dead. Long live PUMA.

    May it be so. 🙂

  15. We will rise, because neither the Republicans nor OBama party have the solutions to what ails this country. They are too caught up in corporate money.

    The fact that PUMA is grass roots can keep it from falling into the trap that was set by authoritarians like Huffington and Markos, and the corporate propaganda that is the hallmark of CNN,MSNBC,FOX.

    Average people will always need a voice, and right now, it doesn’t seem like anyone is speaking for them.

    Always, a vacuum will be quickly filled.

  16. madamab: Almost forgot to tell you how wonderful this post is. Someone should bundle up all these great diaries and publish them into a book. Your plays are so terriffic it would be a shame to only be limited to a few blogs. They deserve daylight beyond the Confluence.

  17. Contribution Details
    Date: July 17, 2008 12:31 PM CDT
    Contact: Jennifer
    Amount: $25.00

    Carol this was my contribution to Hillary today to pay down her debt.

  18. The “Netroots Nation”, Markos, HuffPoop, Aravosis, TPC, etc. have become the thing they themselves railed against.

    They should have a humongous Panda as a mascot for their pandering to the Precious, no matter what he does. Either that or a BIG kiss firmly attached to Obama’s backside.

    They are no longer relevant as far as I am concerned.

  19. I’ve gotten very cozy with the idea of “put them down”

    Obama cannot be president. I am comfortable with voting McCain now. It took awhile, but I’m there if that’s what it takes. I really don’t mind McCain attempting to clean up this mess. We’re going to be busy cleaning up the Democratic party. After-party clean-up too.

    Carol-

    What did you hear from McCain today that made you describe him as “honorable”? Good marks from you.

  20. ps–yes! Thank you Madamab!

  21. What is really keeping my spirits up is the emergence of true activism that has sprung from this one blog alone.

    gary, Mawm, murphy, SM, Janis, rd, joaniebird, I hesitate to name names for fear of overlooking someone but you all know what I mean. It is a pleasure each day to read the diaries because they represent the truth and they speak to us who may not possess the ability to express it as well.

    PUMA was born on a dark night in June following one of the darkest days of the DNC and its underhanded machinations. It introduced the light that we were seeking and it is up to us to keep it burning.

  22. McCain has morals.

    Obama – Nope, can’t think of any!

    PUMA$

  23. Great post, madamab.
    I can’t in conscience vote for either one of them. It’ll be interesting to find out what choices I have in Ohio.
    If I write in Hillary will that vote go to the Party’s nominee, for example? If I leave the top blank does that invalidate the ballot? We’ll see.

  24. Good column from an AA writer for St. Petersburg (FL) Times:

    http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/article702892.ece

  25. I second Pat Johnson. You guys are AMAzing (so much for my eloquence! :-)). I’d love to help bundle up all these great diaries and publish them into a book.

  26. Ya know that feeling you have right after a break-up …the I’m not going to date again feeling. That was where I was at with my vote….just going to stay home and not going to go out…yet time has worked its magic on me and I’m ready to start dating again… and since he seems like such a nice guy I may actually enjoy voting for McCain!

    anything, anything, ANYTHING to keep Barackula from ascending to the throne.

  27. Thanks everyone! 🙂

  28. Excellent summary, madamab. It’s interesting how the Obama campaign geared its marketing efforts to those most prone to having a need to “belong”: kids, teenagers, 20-somethings. Look at the vehicles they used: MySpace, Facebook–these are places on which no sensible person, who values her privacy, would ever post on.

    And the large blogs, those with ratings capacity, filled a similar void for those desperate to be part of the “in group.” Not that many of those blogs started out that way, but they surely ended up that way. Anyone who blogged at one of those sites had to have felt the pressure to agree with all the views of the site owner or else get off the site.

    What is so sad is that, at one time, the guest posts by elected representatives seemed to open up a new avenue for the Beltway and the byways to communicate with each other. Representative government held the promise of being a little more representative–the “virtual town hall.” Now, I suspect that those guest posts are little more than self-promotions.

  29. grayslady – there is definitely a groupthink quality to those fauxgressive blogs. I was so disappointed to see them pick sides so early – and with such virulence!

    Hillary was my first choice, then I flirted with some other candidates before coming back to her. Now, I wonder how I could have thought any of her challengers were remotely on her level.

  30. That Tampa Bay article was interesting — and again, I love how the same liberals who were moaning up a storm like a fucking Greek chorus when criticism of Bush was out of bounds are now more tyrannical and vengeful than any Republican ever was.

    The conservatives used to say it, and it’s true. It’s fucking true. There’s no hate like liberal hate.

    It’s been sickening to me to watch so many old flip comments like that coming true — the first time I heard someone say that there would be riots of Obama wasn’t the nominee, I instantly said it was racist. What, are black people going ot burn down Denver if their guy doesn’t get in? Come on, that’s plain racist paranoia talking! That was before Donna Brazilenut went off on her “blood in the streets” tear and the death threats against otherwise respected black leaders who dared criticize the Baby Jesus started popping up. And now, guess what? Riots ARE being threatened.

    Liberals acted like George Bush was inherently evil because the MSM supported him, and why would the corporate media support him otherwise? Oh … they like our guy now? Well, I guess they’re all wonderful now and we can trust the media implicitly!

    The Chicago machine is eeeeeeeeevihl! Eeeeeeeeevihl, I tell you! Lookie here, I’ve read all these cool books about their economics school and how they singlehandedly caused global warming and the AIDS viru– oh. Obama’s top advisors are from there? Well, I guess they’re nto all bad, are they? Some are probably okay. Hey, you know, I bet the u Chicago econ school is just peachy now that I think about it!

    You know how evil W is? His supporters wion’t let you criticize him! They have no respect for the Constitution! They’re, like, so totally un-American!!!!!

    Hey, is that a satirical magazine cover? Ooh, did Obabie have a rough time during the ABC debates? BURN THE PLACE DOWN!

    Bush’s third term indeed, and it’s starting now.

  31. oh lord god — somebody stop me! I’m so bored at work I’m actually troll fishing on other blogs for something to do!

    caught one too ~ threw it back it was so small.

  32. At some juncture people have to wake up to the fact that the democratic party no longer (if it ever) works for the common person. And if we can’t have the progressive things that we really, really need like universal health care then we have to go the other direction. There is no damned sense in paying outrageous taxes for little to no services in return. Right now we’ve got big government for the sake of big government instead of fulfilling its function of enhancing the lives of our citizens. We have some major priorities that need to get addressed and Obama doesn’t want to address those. What he is proposing is to increase spending and taxes but we aren’t going to get any benefits from those. That is just plain stupid. Either we socialize some aspects of our society or we need to slash spending to the bone and eliminate taxes. It has to be one or the other in my opinion. I’m voting for McCain because I can’t afford to have my taxes raised and I certainly can’t afford to have the taxes on the rich bastards in my community raised either. In our system the wealthy are always going to wind up with the money. The more the government takes from them the more the wealthy are going to take from me. To me Obama represents everything that is wrong with our system and everything that is wrong with our shallow, practically illiterate 2 dimensional thinking. He is absolutely the worst that has ever come down the pike.

  33. Indigo: You are too funny!!

  34. I submit the netroots were ALWAYS the “nutroots” beginning in 2004 with the Howard Dean and Wesley Clark campaign debacles. These rebels without a cause wanted to create their own political machine, and so far, their results haven’t amounted to squat except to hurt the Democratic Party.

  35. gregoryp: I like how your reasoned this out. Good for you! And all so true.

  36. If I catch another troll… I’ll have Janis help me gut it! Then I’ll throw an ole fashioned troll fry! Who’s got the slaw???

  37. “because neither the Markos coalition nor the DLC speaks for us”

    amen madam
    great post

  38. Indigogrrl – they are actually poisonous! Gut but don’t eat!

  39. Thanks Capt Howdy! Good to see ya here. 🙂

  40. like a blowfish??? who knew!

  41. Damn straight, madamab. We’re fighting to keep the Democratic Party democratic. I think pulling the gloss off of kos is an important aspect in fighting this crap in our own party. We have to wake people up, even if it’s painful for them or us.

    And IndigoGirl, I consider that psy ops! (also necessary). Anytime you can raise the level of haka for an O-bot, or drive a wedge into their fake serenity, you’re working for the movement. Keep it up!

  42. they are haka-ing it up over at NQ over the 52 million ~

  43. this one cracked me up – thanks to faustina

    “Well, in one sense Obama is being fundamentally consistent…he is blaming other people for his own deficiencies.

    I am so sorry Barack.

    I will try to listen more closely in the future. And if I think you said something you really didn’t say, just tell me again so I’ll know what you want me to think you are saying or were saying or will say or whatever—just whatever you say whenever you say it, Barack, is cool.

    Coolness, that’s what really counts.”

  44. madamab, a wonderful post!

    I think the drive for power—the drive to be a party to the controlling discourse, absent any adherence to core values, is an easily corrupting force. Because of this corrupting force, the current level of analysis of most of the bloggerboyz is, as you point out, the equivalent of the corrupt non-analysis of the MSM. Throw all the unacknowledged misogyny of the boyz into the mix, and the non-analysis becomes more skewed toward the idiotic. It is unbelievable that more Obama supporters are not up in arms about Obama’s FISA vote (which erodes our Fourth Amendment protections—eroding the Constitution is not a move to the mythical “center”), support for more free trade (which results in a feeding frenzy to the bottom for the lowest wages, loss of jobs, loss of local control, and erosion of labor and environmental protections), stated reliance on military solutions (10,000 more troops in Afghanistan, routing of Al Qaeda—this even though Al Qaeda is not a hierarchical top down group with a known center of power to “rout”) and refusal to discontinue use of mercenary armies like Blackwater, among other things. These days the bloggerboyz are simply bloviators, like O’Reilly, Hannity, Olberman, spewing hate and rage, waiting for the next faux controversy to feed their hate and rage so they can provide more cherry-picked non-analysis. Adherence to core values, not personalities, is a wonderful attribute of PUMAs!

  45. IndigoGrrl – These Obamans are so Britney Spears, aren’t they?

    “I’m just going to trust whatever Obama says.”

    What a bunch of immature airheads.

  46. A great ironies in this season of ironies is that a very short time ago, those big blogger sites were warning that Dems were in danger of owning the war. They reminded us it was Bush’s war, and Dems voting to further inspections by AUMF & trying to cover themselves against charges of “soft on terrorism” could not be blamed for doing the necessary.

    You can see how long their logic line is, since they have done this very thing. It also shows their lack of political integrity; they are as slimy as Drudge or Malkin or any of the right-wing.

  47. This is slightly off-topic and maybe someone can help me out this. I hope I’m not beating a dead horse, but I find it interesting. Sooo, yesterday we briefly discussed why BO is so successful with reeling in the kids. Today, I was looking at BO college org. videos, and I noticed that they seem to be organized like political machines. The kids get titles (instead of $), so they feel important. They have meetings that look more like group therapy. Do all candidates do this? I never lived on-campus so I never got involved with stuff like this in college.

  48. its amazing to me how “they” consistently projected on to HRC what they wanted to hear her say (negative) and do the same thing for him (only positive) … WTF its as if there is no oxygen left for critical thinking.

  49. parentofed – I knew as soon as they started blaming HRC and DLC’ers like Steny Hoyer for the war, we would all be in deep doo-doo in November.

    Fact is, Bush was going in no matter what. The AUMF just provided him with that faint veneer of Congressional approval that was good enough for the MCM.

  50. Diane M. was super on the Fox Morning Show. That video highlighted her ability to sway people: poised, attractive, articulate to the max. She was terriffic!

  51. Most kids like to feel important. By assigning them titles they feel validated. And who doesn’t like to consider themselves the “head” of something. It bestows power you might not otherwise have. Point well taken Annie O.

  52. Pat – I think that it helps to explain why they are so passionate. His power is their power. Poor little suckers.

  53. I’m listening to Diane now. Wow, she is absolutely wonderful! We are lucky to have such intelligent and poised spokespeople.

  54. Pat – that’s why Eddy calls me “Princess”

  55. Actually, it’s “PUMA$ Princess Carol”

  56. I’m curious: Why hasn’t the MSM tried harder to tie JJ Sr to the Clintons right now? Surely Jackson is losing lots of support in the AA community, so why hasn’t the big o taken advantage of that? Or is it too soon, maybe he still needs that Every Single Friggin Black Vote unity right now. They can’t be tired of kicking the [Big] Dawg.

    Anyone have a lead on this?

  57. YEAAAARGH!!!

    Finally I am HERE!

    Gawd, I just had the craziest day – out all day trying to make a living & visit from EX-IN LAWS that took my PUMA cub out for a visit. Grrrrrrrrrrrr….. but I have to do it otherwise I’m the evil beeyotch.

    Madamab, GREAT POST, neither side have been good to liberals. They are both faux.

    I have to go read Riverdaughter’s post from today, be back.

    Carol??? We have our Scratching Post Last Fundraiser coming up at around 7-ish if the Conflucians powers that be agree.

  58. Thanks, SM! I know – and really, between Kos and the DLC, what are the true differences? I don’t think there will be a lot of disagreement at that meeting, except for maybe who gets the biggest slice of the pie.

  59. madamab, EXACTLY. They’ll be fighting from the waist up but playing footsie under the table.

    YOU DON’T TELL ME Kos the Former Republican now Libertarian Democrat is progressive.

    Progresso Soup is more “Progressive” than Kos will ever be.

    But the IMAGE of being “progressive” is what Kos likes since he and his ilk are homely MFers that found it waaaay cooler to be a Democrat.

  60. Obama: Does He Know What on Earth He’s Doing

    Gerald Warner, has had a good go at Barack Obama. It’s clear that Gerald is going to like Obama even less than he liked Tony Blair. And that is saying something.

    But the Democratic contender’s attempts to flesh out his supposed foreign policy ahead of next week’s visit to Europe suggest the man barely has a clue on the subject. This should worry us all.

    In this week’s key-note address (why are these things always key-note?) he laid out the beginnings of a supposed Obama doctrine on foreign policy and pretty thin it is too. The Truman doctrine, which set the West on the road to winning the cold war more than four decades later, was as clear-minded as Obama’s is not. He says he will focus on “five goals essential to making America safer”. I’ll try to deal with each one.

    1) “Ending the war in Iraq responsibly”. Well, yes, and what does he think the US has been trying to do since the Surge was launched? It has made much progress, now how does he propose to get America out, short of withdrawing lots of troops in a hurry? I’ve heard nothing approaching a proper answer from him – and he’s been making speeches on the subject for what now seems like years.
    continue http://countusout.wordpress.com/

  61. SM – Honestly, I think that if Bush hadn’t been so bad for the country, Kos and his bloggy friends would still call themselves Republicans. They just are trying to be “in” for the first time in their lives.

    Don’t they know that bigotry and hate are not liberal values?

  62. Gotta go, folks – must go do some singing. Have a lovely afternoon.

    PUMAs rock!

  63. I don’t buy that $52 million. Not for a second. Funny math.

  64. fred, yeah, Obama is already causing the Germans to squabble over his impending visit. Wonder if he can bring as much unity to Europe as he has to this country? Maybe the Germans will riot on the streets if he’s not elected in November?

  65. Gregory, they won’t even admit that what they did didn’t help, either.

    In four years time, when we’re still embroiled in a shitload of wars, when there are still tons of people homeless and jobless, after we’ve had a bunch more good, old fashioned bank runs … you know what their response will be?

    “Yeah, buy Hillary/McCain/Bullwinkle would have still been worse!”

    “Yeah! It would have been SO MUCH WORSE but for Barky’s genius! We’re so lucky to have him!”

    They will never wise up. I know Republicans who still own Nixon buttons, and defend the damned man.

  66. Excellent!

    But honestly, it’s pretty pitiful stuff when you really think about. And yet we have some demanding that we support this pond scum of a candidate. Please. When hell freezes over.

    Party Unity My Ass.

  67. Muy excelente!

    Voting for McCain – Taking one step backward today, so that we may take ten steps forward tomorrow.

  68. janis I believe he added his July monies with his June donations to inflate his numbers thats why he waited mid July this guy and his handlers think their great mind manipulators,

  69. I hate Barack Obama. He makes my skin crawal.

    Apparently, Hillary forwarded my information to this punk. Which really pisses me off. He had the “audacity” to ask for a donation. HA! Pretty funny stuff. Yeah, keep asking low-life. But it differently won’t happen.

  70. Regarding Germany, having lived there (and been born there) I can tell you that Europeans already think we pick incompetents with overinflated egos to be our Presidents.

    I doubt Obama will fool them.

  71. gregoryp, don’t take this the wrong way, are you a Republican or are you a Democrat who has come to this opinion lately? I can tell you that, Obama’s desire to raise my taxes and spend on god knows what really scares me. REcently it was discovered that congressman Clyburn from SC appropriated about as much money in earmarks as every other SC congressperson combined,and to top it all off, over 2 million of it went to verious members of his family. This is not change we can believe in.
    In my opinion, only Clinton had the discipline to fight congress over their spending. Bill Clinton did it, and I beleive Hillary would too, but I know Obama won’t. He has shown great willingness to throw money around for political gain, and I fear he would govern this way.

    If I can’t have Hillary, I want someone who is going to cut into the earmarks and wasteful spending of the government, someone like McCain. Maybe we need to go through a period of this, before we get UHC, so that we will be able to manage it. SOrtof like doing a major housecleaning and yard sale, before you buy new things.

    If anyone can remember the stories of the $20,000 hammer, or the $10000 toilet seat, stories of government waste. I have my own story.
    When I first started doing software contracting, I worked for a defense contractor and my first task was to shut a screen saver off that would come up on a flight simulator we would work on. It was a two line of code change, but after I filled out all the paper work, and sent it to Orlando for approval, I realized it was going to cost the American people $15000 to turn that screen saver off. From that moment on, I never filled out paperwork for small changes like that.
    I have seen more waste than that in my career, and there are things that can be done about it. One is reforming the contract aquisition process the Navy goes through. It is really broken. I could on and on, but this comment thread isn’t the forum.
    The bottom line for me is that Obama’s big government really scares me.

  72. Would someone please explain to me, in words of one syllable since I’m one of those dimwitted old ladies, just how the netroots came to be represented the loudest by three (EX) Republicans?

    Markos = Republican
    Zsa Zsa Huffington = Republican
    John Arivosis = Republican

    Why are they the loudest and most listened to voices of Democrats/Liberals/Progressives?

    Oh and was Josh from TMP a Republican too? If I remember correctly he was for the war before he was agin it.

  73. Janis,

    I agree as well. He definitely mantipulated his numbers.

  74. Can someone get me out of time-out?

  75. Kenosha – AMEN! Again, we have the case where non-Democrats are choosing our leaders for us.

    Yes, Josh Marshall, former Repub.

    MYIQ: I hope you’re right. They are making his visit like when the Beatles came to the US for the first time.

  76. John Cole at Balloon Juice – ex-Republican

  77. Janis: I left you a “YOUR ADS ARE AWESOME” note on RDs thread, just wanted to say that. Very impressive & professional – love it!

  78. Great Art. “Fredster”
    I esp. like the comment from”Peggy” 9:50am.
    She’s from Hyde Park / the lion’s den, as she called it.
    Then she hoped for some SD’s the get a SPINE & open this thing up!
    I could see a “REVERSE-BRADLEY EFFECT”, where
    “AA” themselves “SAY” they will vote for Obama to the pollster’s. Then “pull the lever” for the more experienced candidate; McCain!
    Country before PARTY & BEFORE RACE!!
    This is SO… NOT OVER !!

  79. Damn, no wonder we have been screwed and re-screwed this whole primary season. Corporate Media and so-called (EX) Republicans are choosing the Democratic Nominee.

    Do they think we ALL fell off the turnip truck?

    Actually PUMA crats are loud and clear about not buying what they’re selling.

    PUMAcrats love their country. Obama and Obamacrats love Obama.

  80. Europeans pay much more attention to our political affairs than we pay to theirs. Or to ours even

  81. Mmyiq2xu,

    “Voting for McCain – Taking one step backward today, so that we may take ten steps forward tomorrow.’

    Does this mean you’ll do it??

  82. Mawm ! Thank you!

    “…He has shown great willingness to throw money around for political gain, and I fear he would govern this way….
    I want someone who is going to cut into the earmarks and wasteful spending of the government, someone like McCain. …Obama’s big government really scares me.”

    Great talking points to add to my arsenal for circulation. I’m collecting all angles for distribution in all directions.

  83. I just left Pumapac’s site and it doesn’t look like anyone has posted this. Politically Drunk posted a webform today, you complete it and it automatically sends out an email to Dem. leadership and supers calling for Hillary to be put in nomination. Incredibly quick and easy. http://politicallydrunk.blogspot.com/2008/07/last-stand-email-initiative-for-puma.html

  84. thanks for the post madamab, as someone who has not been involved with the netroots it is educational. Thanks also for the link to Maxwell’s column fredster. That columnist is a find of a guy. I took some time reading his bio and other recent columns and love his thoughts & wisdom & his bio is fascinating too. I look forward to reading him more in future.

    gregoryp to your post I say Amen. I feel like Neo and I’ve taken the red pill recently. Though I don’t mean that in a GOP faithful red pill kind of way, but a red pill way nonetheless.

  85. I never was able to get interested in the KOS site. I read Americablog and Huffingtonpost and commented there until being banned in Feb when I expressed my support for Hillary’s policy over Obama’s. At the time, I didn’t know what the heck was going on. Then as I read more and more, everything pointed back to the KOS site, the one I never liked. After reading another diary about Hillary not staying around after the Yearly Kos meeting or whatever it was, I realized that this is about power and nothing else. They didn’t think that it was important that Hillary actually had the “people’s business” to take care of while campaigning as opposed to Obama that never bothered to call a meeting of the committee on Foriegn Relations that he chaired because he had to campaign. Now they are joining the MSM that we have railed against since 2000. Don’t they see or care what they have become? I truly believe that the Obama birth certificate issue will come back to bite them if what is being investigated turns out to have merit. Somebody may have gone too far this time. BTW, regular folks at home don’t know who KOS (Cheeto) is. I bet that really bothers them.

  86. I thought that Kos was just a guy who had a popular political website. This thread (good writing as always, madamab) tells me he is some sort of celebrity like Huffington, whom I have known about forever. I guess I’m a regular folk, of which their are way more than just a few.

  87. SM, thank you hon.

    Barky can lie about his money all he wants; he still ain’t getting any of mine.

    Those fuckers act like the money in my pocket is already owned by them by virtue of my being liberal and owning a uterus that I do not want to see occupied by a fetus now or at any point in the future. They are SO ANGRY that their tried-and-true Sekrit Weppin of Roe v. Wade isn’t making me cough up. They’re like bar scum who read about the secret ways to get chicks and are volcanicalyl enraged to go to the bar and discover that what they thought were sure-fire winning lines are actually not working.

    Anyhow — my money, not theirs. They ain’t getting any.

  88. Well done madamab.

    “And I hope that after the November election, whatever happens, PUMA will keep fighting for that center, and pushing for the populist, liberal agenda that the netroots and the DLC have abandoned by backing Barack Obama at all costs.”

    I hope so too – that’s what its all about. We’ll be around when they come to their senses.

    Like some others, I’d love to see some details on that $52 million. Highly unlikely in my opinion.

  89. Janis, I just love and look forward to your comments.

    They showed me the carrot (Roe) and they showed me the stick (BO) and then I gave ’em the finger.

    btw, I am in Virginia and my co-worker, a 60+ lifelong registered dem, tells me that the dems have called her 6 times so far for contributions and to urge her to vote for BO. She told them she won’t contribute, that she is staying home this year and that she is switching to independent. They are coming back with arguments to try to turn her. She says ‘they haven’t seen stubborn yet.’ But it is interesting to me the efforts they are putting in to her vote in this battleground state (news says BO is ratcheting that effort up in VA too). It’s not that her name has been passed along from a contributor list either. Last campaign she contributed was to Bill Clinton. Then and also just recently to HRC to pay off the debt.

  90. If he is unable to list the correct number of states (50) then how can we be sure he raised 52 million? I do no believe a word he says.

  91. Janis, will you do me a favor?

    I just went to talkleft and was reading the thread about Bill Clinton campaigning for Obama and I am ready to scream, cry, throw things, beat up the neighbor and my Obot Granddaughter.

    Would you come to my house and beat the living $hit out of me if I ever go to talkleft and let BTD and his merry band of Obamabots bring me down again?

    Seriously, I am making me go to my room and stay there until I get over this destructive behavior. However a good a$$ whooping would help too.

  92. Joaniebone:

    I don’t have to, if California is “in play” then Obama is f*cked in all the swing states already.

    I want McCain to narrowly beat Obama, so that he can’t claim a mandate.

  93. OT: Marsh has new “http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=28062” that explains how Puma is all about Hillary. I put my two cents in the comment thread and departed. I don’t know why they don’t get it that Puma is about Obama. Oh. Sorry. Had to vent somewhere.

  94. Good for BC. Whatever. I like the guy, but I consider his “vote for Barky” to be akin to Hillary’s being on that stage at Unity. He has to.

    I don’t. *shrug*

  95. MyIQ, are you serious? California’s in play?

    HEEEEEE-heeheeheeheehee! I would LOVE it if we went for McCain AND defeated the anti-gay-marriage thingie at the same time. That would be a Thing of Beauty. Heh heh.

  96. So let me get this straight — the progressive(?) blogs which are the loudest (and who are for Obama) are all run by ex (?) – republicans. Caucuses and open primaries got corrupted by republicans playing mischief. Obama sounds/plays like a republican off and on. What is wrong with this picture? What the hell is going on? I have never felt so helpless.

  97. pm317: Ever get the feeling you fell down the rabbit hole?

  98. On CNN tonight Wolf Blitzer showed part of a 8-minute video that McCain’s people put out about Obama. They showed Obo talking about the “surge” being a bad idea in January 2008 and in Jan 2008 saying that if we sent in 30,000 more troops, it would probably be a very effective tactic. The phrase given was “You don’t have to admit a mistake if you pretend that you said the right thing all along.”

    They purposely put out the video on the eve before his big trip tommorrow.

  99. We have started the Cocktail Party! Please come on over.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rule!

  100. Perries, they need not get her name off of a contribution list. Every campaign can get access to every voter that is registered in the state, and depending on which state it is, the name comes with an age, address, telephone number, sometimes race, and if they have voted in recent elections. When I canvassed for Clinton in PA and in IN, we had lots of information on our knocking lists. And if someone was undecided, they would sometimes send another volunteer out to talk to them the next day.

    Frankly, it sounds like Obama has fantastic ground game in most of these states that are going to be in play, and THAT is what should worry McCain. Going after undecids multiple time is a luxury, it means they have the staff and support to pursue every voter. If Obama and McCain have equal ground game, I think it truly is a toss-up, but with Obama’s organization, I don’t see how he loses unless he does something major to mess it up or there is an October surprise…

  101. I got Burger King placemat that’s a big fake dollar bill today. I’m thinking of sending it in one of the Barack envelopes I keep getting.

  102. yep, I keep getting solicitations from Barry O

    I print out the PUMA logo and mail it back to him in his pretty prepaid envelope.

  103. MAWM, I didn’t take it the wrong way at all because I am sounding like a republican. Really I am a firm believer in limited socialism. I don’t like this whole health insurance scam as it has been going for the last 10 – 15 years or so. It doesn’t work for anyone except the insurance companies. I would like to see total socialized medicine, socialized energy and probably some other things as well like quality housing for everyone. I like the incentives that capitalism gives people as well but it leads to huge disparities in lifestyles. The reason that I sound like a republican now is that I am sick and tired of paying taxes for nothing. I want my tax dollars to be productive. As for being a democrat I’ve voted a straight democratic ticket every election since I turned 18 in 1987. The one exception is where I voted for Kay Bailey Hutchinson the first time she was elected. I thought she would be stronger on women’s issues than she is but it does appear that she is starting to stand up for her ideas a little more now. I’ve voted against her ever since though. This year I don’t know. I wanted to vote for Noriega and some others but I am very, very upset with the democratic party.

  104. madamab, this was a wonderful post. You covered it.

  105. “Frankly, it sounds like Obama has fantastic ground game in most of these states that are going to be in play, and THAT is what should worry McCain. Going after undecids multiple time is a luxury, it means they have the staff and support to pursue every voter.”

    Not necessarily. It doends on where you live. The only people making calls in my town usually are me and my sister, and just between the two of us we’re able to cover the entire town with calls backs and follow ups etc. Frankly, making multiple calls to vehemently opposed voters sounds like really poor organization–either the people at the town and state levels are not communicating, or they’re getting so many refusals they’re desperate enough to risk really pissing people off by pestering them. If Obama had such a good ground game, he wouldn’t have performed so dismally in the primary with all the advantages he had imo.

  106. […] the rest here. Posted by Texas Hill Country Filed in Best of the […]

  107. “The chief qualification of the mass leader has become unending infallibility.” Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism.

    Whatever the leader says, no matter how absurd, his words are always right and correct. There are no “mistakes” on the part of the leader, only the failure of the group member to adequately engage in the leader’s instructions.

    In addition, the totalitarian leader has a distinct relationship with the group member, whereby the member becomes a sort of miniature clone of the leader.

    “[E]very functionary is not only appointed by the leader but is his walking embodiment, and every order is supposed to emanate from this one ever-present source.”

    The members act on account of the leader, while the leader remains infallible. Thus, any mistake “can only be a fraud: the impersonation of the Leader by an imposter.”

    Through this identification with the leader, the member builds a sense of pride and loyalty toward the leader. That is, unless they are unlucky enough to make a mistake. In that case, in order to correct his own errors, the leader must liquidate those who carried out his own orders.

    ***

    Bill Maxwell
    Don’t dare disagree with Obama
    By Bill Maxwell, Times Columnist
    In print: Thursday, July 17, 2008

    You had better mind your manners with regard to Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

    You can’t disagree with him. You can’t question the legitimacy of his many platitudes and promises. And you had better watch it when you offer a litany of his flip-flops or point out his crass opportunism.

    Be forewarned: If you say, sing, write, draw, paint or sculpt anything unflattering about Obama, expect the Spanish Inquisition. The salvational fervor and unfiltered euphoria surrounding the man have cast a halo around his head. A halo, as you know, suggests something otherworldly.

    http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/article702892.ece

  108. IOKIYAR, the ironic bloggy appellation for “It’s OK If You’re A Republican,” suddenly morphed into IOKIYO – “It’s OK If You’re Obama.”

    Very nicely summed up why they lost their credibility!

  109. […] 18, 2008 · No Comments madamab at Confluence nicely sums up how the “progressive blogosphere” – or some part thereof threw away […]

  110. […] Centrism, Triangulation and the Netroots (by madamab at The Confluence) Hillary Clinton’s phenomenally successful Presidential run showed me that the center of the Democratic Party is where the country feels most at home. 18 million voters came out to say “Yes!” to Hillary’s populist, New Deal-style platform. Hillary won more votes than any candidate, male or female, had ever won in a primary contest. Senator Clinton’s voters completely ignored all the machinations of the media and the DNC/Obama conglomerate. They were told their votes wouldn’t count in Michigan and Florida, but millions voted anyway. They didn’t listen to the grandiose pronouncements of Hillary’s early demise after Obama’s long run of victories in February. They didn’t care that Obama was being declared the winner before all the votes had been counted. […]

  111. […] Centrism, Triangulation and the Netroots (by madamab at The Confluence) Hillary Clinton’s phenomenally successful Presidential run showed me that the center of the Democratic Party is where the country feels most at home. 18 million voters came out to say “Yes!” to Hillary’s populist, New Deal-style platform. Hillary won more votes than any candidate, male or female, had ever won in a primary contest. Senator Clinton’s voters completely ignored all the machinations of the media and the DNC/Obama conglomerate. They were told their votes wouldn’t count in Michigan and Florida, but millions voted anyway. They didn’t listen to the grandiose pronouncements of Hillary’s early demise after Obama’s long run of victories in February. They didn’t care that Obama was being declared the winner before all the votes had been counted. […]

  112. Again, please go every day to the comment sections of CNN and MSNBC and add the PUMA comments on as many articles as possible. The more we can keep that PUMA name out there the more converts, plus the more the DNC will feel the pressure. Need more male names out there. Puma’s come in both male and female. I surf them every day. CNN has a habit of closing them when they get a bit too critial of the messiah. So you have to get in early on the story.

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