It wasn’t rare. Maybe it’s still not.
When I was a student, I went to a few frat parties during the 80s. My friends warned me not to drink anything with grain alcohol in it because there were rumors that it was spiked. I didn’t.
I met a nice guy who was a member of a frat and went out with him for about a month. One night, he told me that he’d been part of a “train”. He was number 3… and number 14. I was disgusted. Oh, he said, she was completely willing.
Was she really drunk, I asked?
Of course, he said.
Then she couldn’t give consent, I said. It didn’t matter that she was a townie.
Also, we’re done. Sorry (not sorry).
So, my point is, we know these things happened to people. We know that the drinks were frequently spiked.
The question remains, can we show with some kind of certainty that Kavanaugh was involved? That would require a bona fide, good faith investigation and statements from witnesses under penalty of perjury. Julie Swetnick has given such a statement and has undergone background checks for her jobs in the intervening years.
What it all comes down to is this: one of these people went on to become a trusted governmental employee. The other is lying.
I know Brett Kavanaugh has lied before about other things, like using stolen emails and being a choir boy in high school when so many people who knew him remembered him as a frequently belligerent drunk.
Until Kavanaugh and the Republican lead judiciary committee agree to an investigation and hearing from witnesses, I’m inclined to believe Julie.
Regardless of his youth at the time these things happened, trying to rush this nomination through sends a dangerous message to all women and girls. It says, we excuse men who do this. We won’t hold them accountable. We will think of them as good and decent because they cleaned up their act (allegedly) and their accusers are trying to ruin their lives. The lives of the targets? Well, they are of no consequence.
Do Republicans really want to send that message to voters with daughters, sisters and wives?
We’ll see.
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Apparently, they do…
And then they decided to hold a vote on Friday morning!
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Pic du Jour
Diane Feinstein LBJ’s Lisa Murkowski
Filed under: General |
The Confluence 
Nobody is saying this. Or they are but not directly. It is the CHARACTER stupid! We don’t want this morally corrupt mfer on SCOTUS. Period. And can they put all the survivors out of this nightmare, this misery by showing him the door, please?
[…] Source link […]
Yikes, so scary. And a habit of telling lies is not a good quality for a judge, to say the least.
This ‘train’ thing makes me sick in the stomach. Never had heard of it until now with this nomination. Then again I didn’t grow up here. And to think they all got away with it.
I don’t think all American men are skeevy. Most of the ones I went out with were decent. But the bad ones are repeat offenders.
Because they are allowed to be repeat offenders.
But then, RD probably thought that was too obvious to need to be said.
If such guys are a minority what are the chances of one of them ending up as a nominee?
1 in 10
To be fair, there are some really awful things happening in India. I mean on offense.
Look, I have said I led a sheltered life and I didn’t know. I don’t think opportunities in India for the ‘train’ thing to happen exist at least in the middle class realm. Drinking and parties are not a thing. Schools and culture are not like here. But other ugly things happen in India. Worse things happen there.
Sounds right. The Indians I work with seem to be very modest and reserved people. I can’t imagine them cutting loose.
Super friendly and generous though.
Gang rapes are rampant in India. Rampant everywhere.
I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m only saying that the Indians I know probably have never been caught dead at a mixed gender party where there was copious amounts of alcohol and no parental supervision.
The ladies likely know the risk to their persons. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. And considering the number of people in India, there are going to be a higher number of incidences than in the US.
But these people, both men and women, dress modestly, do not call attention to themselves and seem introverted. I found one of my Indian colleagues in the ladies room putting a T shirt under her V necked dress because she thought it was too revealing. It wasn’t. But I can see where they don’t even want to seem like they are tempting fate, not that it would matter if sexually aggressive men wanted to abuse someone. I guess what I’m saying is their behavior appears to be “above reproach”. Don’t do, say or wear anything risky or risqué. Don’t be anywhere you shouldn’t. They don’t seem normalized to gang rape. They seem all to aware of it.
RD, you got where I was coming from. Thank you.
Sweet Sue, gang rapes the kind of thing we are talking about as in ‘train’, ‘lineup’ do not happen in schools, period. Rapes happen and gang rapes too outside of the kind of environment we are talking about here, such as the respectable, rich guys like Kavanuagh are accused of doing. That does not happen. If it does, both men and women and their families pay a hefty price. Sex in the context of respectable/normal family circumstances (like that K and his accusers) outside of marriage does not happen at least not to the same extent as here. Middle class morality, societal taboos, crime and punishment are all hefty deterrents. If you want to talk about the ills and ugliness of India without context and without reference to what I am talking about here, have at it. India is uglier in more ways than one because of poverty, illiteracy, and all other woes that are ascribable to a third world (and it pains me to write this).
Why did you say “have at it” like I coming after you? Far from it pm317. I was referencing the gang rapes that take place in buses and, usually, end with the death of the female victim. Indian women are banding together for change. No country is immune from such horror and, you’re right, the poor women bear the brunt, always. I can guess what motivates the poor, unemployed, disrespected males (everywhere) but I no longer care.
Because your original comment was out of context. I was not talking rapes and gang rapes in general and we are talking about the situation here. Where is the need for poking me with it happens in India too, as if I am oblivious to that, because I am Indian? There is poverty, illiteracy and all other things there and more of such things happen as one may expect because those are degenerative conditions and India is a repressed society. On the other hand, here we have a first world problem with rich kids preying on vulnerable girls from ‘normal’ families just for fun. I have never heard of a situation in India where men line up in front a room to screw an incapacitated girl lying inside and it is not happening there. What is happening there is worse because there is real violence and real danger. But out here, they all appear to have moved on from whatever happened and gone about their business and even a perpetrator gets nominated to SCOTUS. There the perpetrator is a motherfucking mental case who is not going anywhere in his life. There are no middle class respectable gang rapists there ready to be nominated to their supreme court because the respectable/normal guy would not first of all attempt such a thing let alone get away with his actions.
Deploying emergency cuteness. Go to your corners and squee.
Don’t make me break out the Pinkie Pie Emergency Glomp! 😛
There is a Slate article talking about ‘train’ by a woman who went to school in DC. Notice that it is all mostly religious/ Catholic schools catering to rich peoples kids.
Did you know, pm317, that Gorsuch went to the same prep school as Kavanaugh? What with packing the Supreme Court with all these fucking Catholics? Okay, I just answered my own question. Smash this Opus Dei cult.
You just said it. the “Opus Dei” have the same agenda all over the world; “prep” young boys to be the leaders of the world. For a better Testocracy…
Exactly
Like you said he’s lied about something much less like stolen emails. So i would not be surprised to see him once again lying about this. He has shown a penchant for lying under oath.
I think K has beach week prominently shown on his calendar. The stuff that is coming out about what happened at those parties maybe making him regret having provided that as evidence. He does not appear to be smart at all, just like the assaulter in chief in the WH.
Plus he has a gin blossomed, smirking face that begs to be punched. Worse than Ted Cruz.
What 17 year old boy keeps a calendar? What 17 year old boy who keeps a calendar, keeps them when he’s 53?
Oh great! There is one more and it is recent, 1998.
But, RD, they are -we all-are normalizing rape by proscribing what kind of behavior and modest clothing is mandatory for young women/ Ladies to be safe and respectable. What’s next, the hijab? You, little sister, used to chide me for not being sufficiently sex positive. Peace, Susan.
You could say that sexually aggressive cultures DO lead to women wearing modest clothing in an attempt to not tempt fate, not that they make any difference.
Yes, I AM sex positive. Good sex between two people is good for your emotional and physical well being and lack of a marriage license should not be a deterrence.
But what I am saying is that it is highly questionable to think that Indian immigrants are insensitive to gang rapes because they are common in their country. I don’t see any evidence of that. The stratum of society that most Indian immigrants I work with come from appear to prize propriety and modesty. They likely never put themselves in a position where gang rape is a possibility. That doesn’t mean they wear hijab, although my Muslim Indian colleague’s wife does. (She’s a very lovely lady).
If you’ve never worked with Indians or know them personally, you may have the wrong impression about why and how they would react to gang rapes or expect better treatment from their American friends and neighbors.
Wait, I never said that Indian immigrants or a majority of Indians are insensitive to gang rapes. For years, my husband spent a lot of time in Bangalore and made real friends. I don’t even know how we got here. What I was saying was that rape, even gang rape, is everywhere and not confined to the United States and, yes, there are horrific stories coming out of India, too.
me:This ‘train’ thing makes me sick in the stomach. Never had heard of it until now with this nomination. Then again I didn’t grow up here. And to think they all got away with it.
you: To be fair, there are some really awful things happening in India. I mean on offense.
That was my original comment. I was only referring to the idea of rich guys from seemingly normal everyday families standing in line in front of a room to fuck an incapacitated girl (as the term ‘train’ appears to mean) and I had never heard of that. You made the leap to rape and gang rape in India as if that was relevant. I think RD and I are saying that there is no equivalent to ‘train’ in India because the culture and resources are different. There is violence and rape and gang rape but no equivalent to ‘train’. Maybe that sexual revolution will come after couple of generations but not right now.
Anyway, pointing to ills of India is a sore point for me and I don’t condone or explain away what happens there but I understand it better and I react when someone just hurls some gratuitous ‘India is bad too’. Yeah, we know. India is worse.