We’ve been whispering about it for hours — but here’s the Story of Confluence:
The Campaign Toll:
When Democrats Go Post-al
By James Wolcott (Vanity Fair, June 2008). . . .
At Daily Kos, Clinton’s supporters felt not only outnumbered but patronized as objects of sexist condescension, pummeled like tackling dummies. One regular diarist, who went by the handle of Goldberry, exited the Daily Kos and set up her own blog, the Confluence, rolling out a welcome mat for fellow “Kossacks in Exile.” Toward Markos himself, she bore no ill will: “I totally respect Markos. He’s created a beautiful thing.” But the beautiful thing he created has been overrun by ruffians, leaving refugees like herself to hole up in the hills “until the ravagers run out of fuel to burn.” In an open letter to the liberal blogosphere, a fed-up Daily Kos regular named Alegre urged a writers’ strike . . . (Here’s the whole story)
RD here: Ok, I’m going to get a gigantic ego, except some of Wolcott’s piece was scathing so I think we are “on notice” (better get one of those big boards to keep track). I appreciate that Wolcott gave us a mention but this site wouldn’t be possible without all the other people who blog here like Katiebird, ronkseattle, bostonboomer, and our latest addition , garyinchapelhill. And there are all the commenters like shainzona, litigatormom (anyday now), MABlue, ghost2, DCDemocrat, tucsonlynn and many, many more. BUT *we* couldn’t do it without:
TaylorMarsh, Jeralyn Merritt and Big Tent Democrat at Talkleft, Lambert, Vastleft, Sarah, myiq2xu at Corrente, Sugar at Sugar ‘n Spice, Anglachel and Tom Watson, eriposte and turkana at TheLeftCoaster and the whole rest of the growing Progressive Blogosphere 2.0 that sprouted up like mushrooms in the wilderness outside the palisade of the Great Orange Satan. Let’s raise a glass to each other.
Filed under: General | Tagged: Alegre, confluence, Daily Kos Strike, james wolcott, Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, Riverdaughter, Vanity Fair |
The Confluence 
Mazel tov, rd!
“hole up in the hills”
Well she built a BEAUTIFUL house here and view is wonderful
Ha! Just came over to say that Riverdaughter and Alegre and Tom Watson have been mentioned in Vanity Fair.
The closing paragraphs are the sad ones, however — predicting BushCo will get away, “smirks intact,” with all their criminal and nation destroying actions.
Alas.
It’s not going to happen, jawbone — it’s not going to happen that way….
Bless Wolcott! I love his “I voted for Hillary, so shun me” remark.
I dislike how he glossed over the blatant sexism that led to a lot of this, but other than that, great article.
Am I the only one watching Hillary on O’Reilly?
As someone who was “weeded” from Markos’ sad and overgrown lawn, I give thanks to, Riverdaughter for planting this beautiful garden for us to grow in.
Just had to turn off Countdown again, couldn’t stand KO and Fineman making fun of Hillary’s trip to the gas station. Keep laughing, Keith, but all those low information voters who work for a living are not laughing at the small fortune now required to fill their tanks.
The most interesting line was that quote, whoever it was (not something I care to read a second time), that said Daily Kos was “a more interesting place” without Clinton supporters. I can understand saying that it’s a better place, if you think Obama is better than Clinton, but it takes a joyless totalitarian bent to say that a conflict-free discussion is more interesting. Heck, it’s not even a discussion.
I was surprised by that quote – Giordano’s smart – wonder if he is just being diplomatic.
The Hillary interview was a treat. So when’s Obama going on O’Reilly then? Can’t take the heat?
RD: I hope this “trial separation” taught you that you are better off on your own.
I never had an interest in Dkos. I stumbled on this warm and wonderful home after a similar lashing over at DU. It was with good friends such as RodeoDance et al(BlackVelvet and Jackson Dem – too many to mention) – that I found out about the Confluence.
Nicely done RD et al, the experience has been invaluable.
Hey, Lambert at Corrente has a terrific post.
http://www.correntewire.com/so_who_do_i_have_to_blow_to_get_james_wolcott_to_actually_mention_corrente
I’m new here myself and have been welcomed most warmly by our host Riverdaughter. Thanks so much, and congrats and kudos!!!
Jeralyn at Talkleft thinks it is a bigtime diss to bloggers.
Did anyone else think so?
not suprised Gary – your posts are nice.
Elixir,
Perhaps, if you (and others) still visit some old places, try to spread the news about good blogs such as The Confluence.
At DK (before strike), I drove them mad by putting links to Taylor Marsh, Jeralyn (TalkLeft), and The Confluence. Especially when someone posted one of those sly little snides meant to smear a great blogger (they loved to do that to Taylor). I would reply by posting a link. They’d stop right away!!
I still write there as I’ve always mostly contributed within the eco diaries. They are largely free of the deluded ones nowadays…
Hah, I didn’t know the Unity Pony and W.O.R.M. were from Corrente.
I realize Wolcott is not exactly flattering about the Hillary folks in this argument either but.. eh, I imagine the Obama crowd flipping out about it, I just think it’s funny.
Also, did anyone catch Clyburn interviewed on CNN today?
BLITZER: You’re a superdelegate as well. Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democratic Party, wants the superdelegates to make up their mind at least after the last contest on June 3. Is that when you’re going to do it?
CLYBURN: I agree with that. I’ve been saying for a long time that I think within days of the last contests, the superdelegates ought to inform the Democratic National Committee of exactly who they will be voting for.
I do not think we ought to have any kind of a superdelegate convention, nor superdelegate primary. All of us came to these positions through our own home states and our congressional districts, and that’s the way we ought to make our preferences known, through our home states and our congressional districts.
BLITZER: And should the candidate who has the most pledged delegates be the party’s nominee?
CLYBURN: Not necessarily. Anything might happen between now and the end of this process. And that ought to dictate whatever the ingredients in decision-making ought to be — pledged delegates, popular vote, number of victories won, number of states won, as well as what is being demonstrated in the surveys that are being taken as to who will help us be the best candidate going into November. So it should not be any one indicator here.
I thought Clyburn had endorsed Obama?
daria – they wrote Wolcott off a while ago.
I don’t think Clyburn has endorsed him, although I’ve gotten the impression he supported Obama. It sounds like he’s having a few second thoughts.
He hasn’t endorsed but tends to show up and make carefully timed comments that help Obama. This was curious, but I don’t know enough to know how to read it, just wanted to call it to attention for you all.. 🙂
Every post that Bob Somerby writes should be required reading, and be shouted from rooftops. Bob’s archives should be taught in Journalism schools.
Monday post (response to Digby. Read the whole thing):
http://dailyhowler.com/dh042808.shtml
And yes, Bob applauds Elizabeth Edwards’ couragous stand.
My comment disappeared again!! (your spam filter doesn’t like me 8-(
Here is the link to Tueday’s DailyHowler:
http://dailyhowler.com/dh042908.shtml
In case you are not clear, the last sentence is snark.
Clyburn hasn’t endorsed Obama like I haven’t endorsed alcohol consumption. It hasn’t really been necessary….people know where I stand.
I bailed on DKos, HuffPo, and Americablog, and was chuffed to find a new home in exile here — & not only here, but at all the related anti-Hillary-hating blogs I discovered through this one.
Talk about spontaneous popular movements.
Good for us.
I personally see it as Clyburn attempt at moving the goalpost should Hillary cause quite the upset in the coming weeks. That way, he can remain justified in shilling for BO. But that’s just my take — too cynical? Perhaps.
edwardian? You mean if The Math changes dramatically?
Katie: Exactly. Cynical and, perhaps, reaching. But that’s my take. lol
And wouldn’t THAT be a fun show! I have no doubt that you’re right. But if The Math changes that dramatically, well it’s not an argument too many others will make.
Already too many people are noticing how much more alive she is and how BO hasn’t won anything impressive in a long time.
Gotta say again how much I appreciate The Confluence. Through which I’ve become acquainted with other level-headed sites and bloggers. Wonderful.
So RD, take your bows and Rock on, Sistah! Rock on! 🙂
Was I really so heavily sedated by the anesthesiologist?
Did I just read that our little 4 month old Riverdaughter made it all the way to Vanity Fair?
I am between slips and I am still very confused. Somebody pinch me.
Congrats.
well said in your updated comments there Riverdaughter –
yes, take the press wherever you can – it is nice to be mentioned and it will bring more people to your site.
As I said when I was one of your very few first posters here, I am not ex-dkos and have no gripe with that site. I dont have the same mentality that everybody has to agree or the one who doesnt gets name called or ignored. It is one of the unattractive parts of the blogging world that Wolcott is calling out on both sides. i tend to be more of an independent thinker and like a debate and that grates on people who are more uncomfrtable with everybody agreeing with each other. I find thayt boring so I hope you dont go that route.
Fingers crossed for the next few contests!
make that people who are “:more comfortable”
with people agreeing with each other.
Riverdaughter!
(raising my glass)Hear, Hear!
Scathing? Maybe. But it was frantic that came across to me. The no paragraph breaks made the piece feel as compressed as the actual events of this winter/spring.
Lambert wrote a post about it — That linked to an image of a dKos warning to Larry Johnson. And the shocking (to me) thing was that it was dated February 14 — it was just a little over 2 months ago….
I don’t know when I made my first comment here, but I’m sure it was after that (by at least a couple of weeks)
So….. I know his piece was tense. But, I think it did reflect the stress in our world.
Lambert linked to another article by Eric Boehlert today that was much nicer in tone.
Wahoo! Go RD et al. and Clinton supporters everywhere! And of course, the Good Senator herself!!
Kbird: Yes, scathing. His point is that we’ve lost our power to influence the political realm because we’ve been plagued by infighting. As a result, the Bush Gang is about to get away with murder because we no longer have the critical mass to demand accountability.
He’s right, and yet, the upcoming election is so important and the dearth of voices for Hillary in the traditional media and everywhere else, seemingly, was so severe that it needed to be addessed. If it weren’t for the few tiny voices of the pro-Hillary bloggers, I really do believe that a lot of activists would have lost heart back in February when things looked pretty grim. The haka was so loud and our little counter haka was initially not that strong. But the good thing is that we found each other and there is strength in numbers and power in a union. So, now we can tell the big boyz to fuck off. They don’t scare us.
Sure, we *should* be covering whatever incompetent Condoleeza is doing in the Persian Gulf and we should be following the machinations of whatever is going on with FISA and the torture issue. But if we get saddled with a nominee like Obama in this media environment, things will get infinitely worse than they are now. So, our time necessarily must be devoted to getting the best candidate elected.
Yes, Wolcott’s piece left some marks. None of us should consider it very flattering. This blog business had a lot of promise and we blew it.
You want to know why Obama gave a “historic” press conference yesterday where he historically “condemned”, “repudiated”, “rejected” Rev Wright?
Check this graph.
The last 3 days have seen the peek of the entire Wight saga.
MABlue,
Obama’s campaign is over. Stick a fork in him, he’s done. He may not know it yet, but he might as well drop out right now. He will not recover from this.
I think we almost blew it. But, thanks to those of you who had the vision (and genius writing skills) to get our Liberal/Progressive Blogs 2.0 going — I don’t think it’s blown at all.
And (crossing my fingers) when Hillary is elected, we can become policy/issue experts and build libraries of support to help get her stuff passed.
wow, that’s a very cool mention in VF!!! yay!!!
the article takes a depressing turn at the end when it gets all about bush-cheney. I guess they’re enjoying this primary because no one’s paying attention to them. we ignore them at our peril. cleaning up after them is going to be a major undertaking. I’m not even sure Hillary can do it, but I think she’s got the best shot, because she’s tough and smart and a sticker. it’s gonna take all that.
anyway, congrats RD!
The beauty of the Clinton-up-2 story is that she was down 15 in the same poll on April 1st
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=41869&cat=5
Katiebird,
That will be fun and exciting. I really believe that Hillary will be president. I like to believe that we did have some effect.
Hillary was great with Billo tonight! She never backed down. And did anyone else get the sense that he kind of liked her a little bit? But during commercial I switched over to KO and he was doing his usual crapola, making fun of her with Fineman. Just for the record: she is doing the second half tomorrow night again on his show. KO is giving a whole segment to “Jackie” O and “JFK” Obama.
Added Note: RD, if it were not for you and a few other likeminded bloggers none of us would have a nice place to come to and express another point of view. It has kept the momentum going for Hillary because I think otherwise, and I a only speaking for myself, I would have given up. Thank you a million times over!
Very much agreed! Hillary kicked some Irish hiney tonight. I only wish that she could have brought Miller and Morris and and had all 3 of them for dinner!
And yes, RD is THE BEST. Great blog!
Yes, I, too, want to join the chorus of grateful readers. I absolutely depended on this site back in March right after The Race Speech when it looked like Obama would never be held accountable for a politically lethal lapse in judgment, but would instead be lauded for it on par with the damn Gettysburg Address.
I thought Clinton was a goner–for sure. I’ll never forget reading RD’s “Back off Blogger Boiz!” post. To be honest, didn’t believe it, but I told myself, “Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.”
I dunno. I think Wolcott wasn’t as interested in the actual facts (the numbers of people who left Kos aren’t in the “dozens”, if what I’ve read about Kos’ page hits dropping like a rock is true) as he is in promoting this end-of-the-world meme about the Dems. His article is a lot more about Kos-as-celebrity than it is about our collective (justified, in my mind) determination that that place just wasn’t going to give every Democratic candidate an equal consideration.
Heck, it was bound to happen sometime, sort of like Obama was bound to hit a major speedbump that would deflate his mythology sooner or later. People in general are way into the idea of DK as Democrat-coherer until they get cussed out by a bunch of solid-blue-state Kossacks convinced they’re “selling out” somehow. (Seems to me like a Kos was always a far friendlier site to Dems running in lefty strongholds like NYC and SF; too bad, considering that Dems running in more hostile territory could probably use more help from bloggers in many ways.)
I don’t think that site ever spoke for all Dems. Why is it such a big surprise that folks would leave en masse when its leadership took sides in a contested Dem primary? For the record, I don’t think the rift that we’re nearly being blamed for, by deciding to leave Kos, is as serious as it’s being painted here. For the simple reason that – much as the chattering classes would like to believe otherwise – most Dem rank and filers are not sitting around spending hours every day posting to the interwebs.
So true, Eleanor. I have the time now to do it since I retired but could not have given the time otherwise. Places like KOS, HuffPo. etc see themselves as kingmakers. They are convinced that they are capable of shaping opinion. What they don’t understand is that opinion has already been formed before we ever go into a site. We are simply looking for validation and possibly a health debate. To be censored and villified for supporting a candidate other than their particular choice does them no good. They haven’t shaped opinion, they are merely the gatekeepers. Once they come to that conclusion we can all return to reality.
I’m just a political nut in Memphis. I wanted to tell you how glad I am to have read the Vanity Fair article today and finally found the “Hillary” blogs. During the mid-term election, I read Daily Kos all the time, but got frustrated with it because of the Hilliary Hatred this time around. I don’t mind hearing other people’s point of view, but much of what was written there was so obviously one-sided. I had also read MyDD in past elections and hung out there. I was so excited to find Confluence and all the links to the other sites today. Just wanted to let you all know that a regular person out in the hinderlands has found you now. And is going to sleep a little happier. 🙂 I’m not sure that Hillary can win the nomination, but she’s become a better candidate as the string has run out. And I’m proud of the way she’s fighting it out.
Connie
Hey, Connie! Everyone, say Hi to connie.
We think she’s going to get the nomination. No, seriously. And she’ll be our next president if we all work for it. Yes, we are out here and we are legion. welcome to the club.
Pat Johnson,
Taylor Marsh just put up videos to Hillary on O’Reilly, and she was AMAZING!! WOW!!
Just go over and watch it. He is tough, but she gets him every time.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27559
Hey Connie! I’m over in Nashville, myself. There’s a TN for Hillary Yahoogroup going, drop a line to e l e a n o r a _ 2 0 0 8 @ y a h o o . c o m for more info. (Remove the nospam spaces, natch.)
You going to Kentucky this month?
Connie!
Welcome in from the bitter cold of CDS! Warm yourself up with some reality-based commentary (with a few snarky hits at Obama Fan Boys).
Oo, Connie, check the blogroll for Tennessee Guerilla Women. It’s a terrific blog by women in your region. Highly recommended.
Hi Connie! Welcome to the site. We are from all over the US on this blog: MA, NJ, CO, MO, NC to name a few. It is a great blog and RD poses questions which make us put our thinking caps on. Nobody gets slammed, opinions welcomed, and you will come to like and appreciate these posters and their muted voices coming to you via the web. Enjoy!
ghost: Thanks. I watched her tonight on Billo. She did a fantastic job. She so deserves the nomination for all she has had to go through. Triple love her!
Connie! I’m glad you found us. We do believe Hillary’s going to win. In fact, some of us don’t see a clear path for Obama’s success.
I’m so happy to have found this blog! I don’t comment much, but I love you! I read every day. I’m a refugee from the other blogs too. I kind of like the little community we’ve carved out here in the world of the sane!
by the way, I can definitely recommed those Tennessee Guerilla Women too, Connie!
Here’s the link
http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/
Hey Hype! You’re from my neck of the woods. Are you in Linda Stender’s congressional district? maybe we can canvass together this fall.
Hi, HypeJersey! It’s good to meet you!
Warmest greetings, Connie and Hype!
Glad you’ve both decided to step firmly into this ‘ray of light’ and formally greeting your family here at The Confluence. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Or howdeeeee! from the Lone Star state. LOL!
And to all those still shyly lurking about or simply getting your bearings: whenever you feel the mood to join in and chat — or just say “hello” — the door is always open. 🙂
Hello Hype!! Lovely intro edwardian!
I’m off to bed, but before I go I wanted to again thank Riverdaughter for this fabulous blog. I was pretty much in despair when I started coming here and all of you kept me from giving up totally when it seemed there was nowhere else to go to escape the madness. Congratulations, Riverdaughter, on some very well deserved attention. Night all!
Gov. Easeley was on Charlie Rose tonight and he said something which went right to the heart of the matter. He said (to paraphrase): You know when people speak about Senator Obama they talk about how he’ll bring young people and African-Americans into the party. When they talk about Senator Clinton, they talk about how she’ll pass universal health care and get us out of Iraq in a sensible manner.
They talk about what he’ll do prior to the election. They talk about what she’ll do after the election.
He added that he’d be proud to vote for whomever is the nominee but he knows that Senator Clinton will be ready from day one.
Charlie wasn’t happy with this observation. He kept asking, “Well, did you give Obama a chance to present his case?”
The governor said that he’d passed the word to other governors that he backed Senator Clinton and that he didn’t want to tell Senator Obama “No”.
Welcome home, Connie.
Why are people falling all over themselves about Obama’s “historic denunciation” of his Pastor?
Rev Wright anything different than he’s been saying for the 20 years Obama spent at his side. He didn’t say anything new, so why is Obama saying he has become a “caricature of himself”.
Rev Wright’s only sin is that he didn’t go in hiding but caused some trouble to His Preciousness.
As Rev Wright said, Obama just did what politicians do.
PS: Why are the guys at MessNBC so angry? Rev Wright didn’t say anything about them as far as I can recall. Maybe I am still confused.
I have left the KOS for my real allies!
Would love to be on your blogroll. Declarations of Pride
Love what you have done Goldberry! Exile doesn’t have to be all bad. Not when their are friends so close at hand.
Keep it up!
I gladly raise a glass nice and tall to y’all!
The people on your list are like the book people in “Fahrenheit 451,” wandering around remembering novels for those who dare experience them. But instead of books, we’re trying to preserve a little piece of reality.
Our reality wasn’t much, I suppose. But it was a home to us!
Blessed Be. I raise my glass to you, RIverdaughter, on the eve of Beltane. Thank you for this site and your voice and giving us a place for all our voices. When I light the fire of Beltane and I will celebrate with family and friends the beginning of Spring and the coming of Summer and I will celebrate Hillary Clinton and pray to the Goddess for her success. Blessed Be.
I mostly just lurk here, but wanted to say congratulations on being one of the points for the new blogosphere.
I left DK right after Edwards dropped out. All the posts by Obamaborg telling me I had to ‘come’ to Obama now that my guy was gone drove me nuts. I had been open to Obama but those posts just really made me angry. And then I started to look at Hillary, dropped my preconceived ideas about her thanks to some of the posts at DK by Hillary supporters, and I really liked what I saw. I still long for a Trumanite more like Edwards, but dang, Hillary’s close.
And the more I leaned about Obama, the less and less he appealed. The frantic coercion his supporters is disgusting.
Anyway, I came here right after you put up your post about exiles from DK and I’ve been here, lurking, ever since. The writers here are excellent and I love logging in every morning to see what’s new.
I think Hillary’s gonna win this thing. A while back I really doubted it, but struggled on anyway because she is ‘my gal’. But now, I think she will, I really do. And it brings tears to my ears to think that I might be part of getting the first woman elected president of the USA, no matter how small that part is.
Hey, I need to edit my posts better. Tears to my EYES, of course.
Maybe it’s bedtime. Been up all day with a passle of sick goat kids, cleaning goat barns, getting a new chair for the living room (no connection to the sick goat kids) and working on the last chapters of my PhD.
Sima: I think you were right the first time. Surely you’ve heard the song “I’ve Got Tears in my Ears (From lying on my back in my bed while I cry over you)”
Welcome Declarations! I’ll check out your site when I get home.
I only just stumbles on this post, Goldberry. A toast to you and Blogosphere 2.0.
Congrats, Riverdaughter…I never read you as Goldberry, but you deserve champagne for making a place for pro-Hillary people!
You’re a great writer, too!