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PUMA – A Brief History (Part I)

Didja know that PUMA will be five months old this Saturday?  Hard to believe isn’t it?  It seems like a lot longer than that, but this deathmarch campaign seems to have been going on forever and it’s only been about 18 months since the first debates were held in Iowa.

Yesterday I suggested that we all think about the future of PUMA.  I majored in history in college because it was my favorite subject.  I think understanding where we came from is very helpful in figuring out where we are going, as well as who we are.  So let’s do a quick review.

Despite what our opponents claim, the original PUMAs were mostly long-time Democratic bloggers and blog denizens.  Some, like Riverdaughter (aka Goldberry) and Alegre were prominent kossacks back when dkos was a progressive site, while others like myself frequented other sites in Left Blogistan.

Some PUMAs were supporters of Hillary Clinton from the beginning, while others supported John Edwards or other candidates.  I kept hoping in vain that Al Gore would declare his candidacy, and I had Edwards tentatively as my second choice.  I had Barack Obama near the bottom of my list, but it was my intention to support whatever Democrat won the nomination.

Around the time the actual voting began in primaries and caucuses, something very ugly happened in Left Blogistan.  Obama cultists took over dkos, TPM and other sites and began trying to silence or drive out anyone who didn’t support Obama.  I was a regular at Balloon Juice at that time, and the change took place virtually overnight.

I was not yet supporting Hillary but I noticed that many of the attacks on her were simply recycled right-wing memes from the nineties, long ago debunked.  Having defended and supported the Big Dawg since 1992 I objected to these attacks and defended Hillary.  Now I have been expressing my opinions about politics since before I could vote, but I never saw what happened next.

When I defended Hillary, the response I got was personal attacks and insults.  I’m not talking about someone calling me stupid, I’m talking about really putrid stuff like “you’re a goat-fucking piece of shit” coming from total strangers.  And it wasn’t just one or two people doing it, nor was I the only target.  Eventually I was the only target, as everyone at that site either converted to Kool-aidism or left.  Then I left too.

The leaving for me was a gradual process, as I spent less and less time at Balloon Juice and more time at sites that didn’t worship The Lightbringer.  Eventually I wound up here, where Riverdaughter had created a Kool-aid free zone for Hillary supporters.  Alegre and other refugees from Cheetoville formed their own new blogs as the best and brightest writers went on strike.

By Spring of this year Left Blogistan was divided into two camps, with a few sites trying to maintain a pretense of neutrality in between.  The MSM was completely in the tank for Teleprompter Jesus, so those of us supporting Hillary were lonely voices crying in the wilderness.  We watched as misogyny and false accusations of racism went unchecked while Obama went unexamined.

Hillary was inspiring to watch.  Having been declared dead on several occasions, she kept coming back and winning primaries anyway.  They told us over and over that she couldn’t catch Teh Precious, that she was mathmatically eliminated, but she relentlessly closed the gap.  The biggest obstacle in her way was the DNC/RBC decision to strip Michigan and Florida of their delegates.  We knew that if that undemocratic ruling was reversed, Hillary would take the lead because she handily won both primaries.

The Rules and Bylaws Committee met on May 31st, and our own garychapelhill and Mawm were in attendance.  The outcome was summed up best by Mawm when he yelled “LIPSTICK ON A PIG!” The RBC violated their own rules to contrive a decision that guaranteed Hillary could not catch Obama.

On June 1, 2008 outraged Hillary supporters met at The Confluence to express their feelings about what had taken place.  No one told us how we should think or feel about it, we already knew.  The media and the sippy-kup kidz were proclaiming that we would now have to support Obama in the name of “party unity.”  The general consensus was “I don’t care what they say, I ain’t voting for him cuz he cheated.”

Then SM (aka sm77) posted this comment:

SM, on June 1st, 2008 at 3:39 pm Said:


I am making an announcement. I am now a member of the PUMA party.

P arty
U nity
M y
A ss

And with that, PUMA was born!

(End Part I)


RD here.  Just a quick reminder that if you don’t want to watch the Unity Pony tonight, you do have options.

  • You can set your DVR for Pushing Daisies on ABC or
  • You can join Sheri, Darragh and me on The Lions Share at 8:00PM EST on NO WE WON’T/PUMA United Radio (PURrrrr).
  • At 9:00pm EST, Will Bower is scheduled to make an appearance on Larry King Live on CNN to tell the country that we’re not dead yet and there are a lot more of us than the media is reporting (PUMA Power has more than 100,000 hits since June 1,2008.)  Also, Johnny Mac is scheduled to make an appearance on Hannity and Colmes tonight on Fox News.

That is all. I now return you to your regular snark.


523 Responses

  1. I was a Hillary Clinton supporter who read the Taylor Marsh blog. I read some things on other blogs and started reading The Confluence.
    After the DNC theft of our votes and Taylor Marsh drinking the kool-aid I read and stayed here as I felt this was a place that I was more confortable.
    The ideals of the Puma Party make me so proud to be one of you.
    I want the Puma Party to be involved in all future elections.
    As long as there are people like the Pumas there will be people who want a free country and fair elections.



  2. WOW
    How did I get to be first?



  3. PUMAS, you are more powerful than you realise.

    repeeating something posted yesterday re nevada to emphasise the PUMA effect.
    some don’t like this kind of exit polling on early
    voting, but it was done by a Dem who himself ran unsuccessfully for a senate seat:

    Poll shows Obama has slim lead over McCain

    according to this guy’s very large survey (more than 7,000+), it was 50% to
    48%, a mere 2-point lead for BO.

    however, the breakdown of who voted early gives a FAR BIGGER LEAD to dems
    than the numbers registered in the State:

    “On the first day of early voting, 62 percent of Clark County voters were
    Democrats, while 23 percent were Republicans and the rest nonpartisans or
    members of minor parties. Through Sunday, 55 percent of early voters were
    Democrats, 29 percent Republicans.
    Of all registered voters in Clark County, 47 percent are Democrats and 32
    percent are Republicans.
    In Washoe County, 51 percent of the early voters through Sunday were
    Democrats, while 33 percent were Republicans.”

    if this guy’s survey is true for the bulk of early votes (approx 300,000),
    then surely this is precisely the PUMA effect we all know to be real, and
    which the pollsters/corpmedia will not factor in. of course, on Nov 4, the
    ratio of dem/GOP voters will be much closer, thereby wiping out this 2 point
    lead and ensuring a big win for mcpalin.

    meanwhile, AP and corpmedia are reporting BO is way ahead in Nevada, yet it
    seems AP is possibly cheating by factoring in “early vote” party
    registrations, which do not translate into votes for BO:

    Oct 29: AP poll finds Obama widening gap in Nevada
    The survey showed 52 percent of likely voters in the state planned to vote
    or already have voted for Obama, compared with John McCain’s 40 percent.


    Oct 29: Rasmussen: McCain Trusted More on Taxes and Economy
    After several weeks of John McCain’s campaign attacks on Barack Obama’s tax
    plan and idea of “spreading the wealth around”, the latest Rasmussen Reports
    national telephone survey finds voters trust McCain more than Obama on
    taxes, 47% to 45%…
    McCain also has gained ground as the candidate to trust on economic issues.
    Forty-eight percent (48%) now trust the Republican hopeful more than the
    Democrat while 47% hold the opposite view..
    One month ago, Obama held a nine-point advantage when it came to economic

    the rasmussen poll is the first break from the ludacris corpmedia claim from
    the moment McCain won the GOP nomination that BO has the edge when it comes
    to the economy. what on earth does BO know about economics?

    of course, IHT/Reuters are still parroting the madness today:

    29 Oct: IHT: Reuters: McCain hits Obama on experience
    Obama has surged in the last month as the Wall Street economic crisis hit,
    with polls showing voters prefer his approach to turning around the

    a great ad for McPalin right now:

    McCain: 26 years – Zero Earmarks
    BO: 3 years – $1 billion in Earmarks

    that should run til election day.

    when PUMAS vote for McPalin, they are not voting for the GOP. they are voting for REFORM. McPalin may disappoint, but this is the opportunity to defeat the corpmedia, the corrupt DNC and even the Republican Party who have been, shall we say, lukewarm in their support of McCain.

    how about a Maverick Party being formed after McPalin win?

    apologies for the length of this post.

  4. Great post myiq2xu.

    Tonight bOzo has a fall special on and i aint watchin it.

    I will be doing blogtalk radio with Riverdaughter and Murphy. Please join us! Let’s try to make it the highest listened to show on BTR!


  5. Aw MYIQ!!!!


    And you bet your ASS that we are going to PUMAtize the vote!

    Democracy is so hard to attain, yet too precious and too easy lose.

  6. SM!!!

    I remember. We were shell shocked when everything happened and 5/31 was our nadir, but also our birth. I was using a different handle at the time until it was hijacked by a n Obot and I was so angry I finally came up with “Looking for Integrity” after trying a few others that were also hijacked. Funny, no one ever hijacked my current handle because maybe bots don’t like the word “integrity”.

    I remember seeing that and reading it to my mom. It was the first laugh we’d had in a long time. The anger is still there at the lack of ethics we used to ascribe to that “other” party…

    Happy Anniversary PUMA’s.

  7. Yay Taggles! we’ll be listening!!!

  8. I am proud to be a PUMA. I used to read TM, and gradually drifted over to this site, after following some links, and I have been lurking ever since June. I feel a lot of support and comaraderie here, and the postings are always interesting and informative. Thank you.

    I have always voted democratic, but will be voting for McCain this year, and voting against my congressional rep, because he is in cahoots with Pelosi.

  9. Looking: What was your name before?

    Isn’t it great how this all started out as a joke to then Riverdaughter’s manifesto and now we are about to change the course of a presidential election????

  10. I look at what I wrote and there is so much I left out and yet it’s already so long.

    I thought I could do the whole thing in one post but I only made it to June 1st!

  11. NoEpiphany THANK YOU for those stats!!

    We know that PUMAs are 30% of the registered Democratic electorate.

    So early voting may indicate that X amount of Democrats voted early, that does not mean that they are a vote for OBAMA.

  12. Helen,

    As long as TM was not kool-aiding it was fine. But the bots began coming in bit by bit and she did allow then some room, though not much at first. I noticed the change when she became one of the “approved” (licensed?) bloggers for the Democratic Convention. I noticed a tone change right away. Things went downhill after that. My posts were no longer being posted and I did not want to post there anymore. I visited only the pro-hillary sites for the most part during this campaign because I could not stand the misogyny that had already begun.

  13. sm77:

    Murphy said “We are the ones no one was expecting” but that “no one” includes us too!

    I never expected us

  14. Thankfully, you guys figured this stuff out early. I didn’t become a PUMA until the Dems stole the nom. from Hillary in their rules committe actions. That weekend I also reread the Declaration of Independence and knew that what I had suspected (the calls for Hillary to drop out, the unfair enforcement of rules re Fla/Mich and Iowa, the wonky caucus vs. vote numbers) was actually happening. Along with the help from a bought off media using Obama supporters as news analysts.

    We can live with four years a repub president especially with a stacked Congress and Senate. I truly hope the silent majority still exists and decides to vote.

    Tonight, I won’t be watching the Obama “special” infomercial. I’ll do something else, clean the litter box, wash the bathroom floor, or maybe just enjoy myself and watch fox news. hehehe

  15. it seems like ages since then! I came here from FDL via Taylor Marsh (who they were complaining about) and finally, am happily home …

    forward, upward, onward!

  16. I think I was born to be a PUMA.

    Hillary 2012!

  17. MYIQ: You are TOO CORRECT. I remember I was overwhelmed with the response and it took a comment from RD to set me straight. She said and I paraphrase, that a movement has begun and to buckle up and let’s get to work.

  18. Taggles! I’d rather listen you any day then that snarky Obama’s infomercial!

  19. “I look at what I wrote and there is so much I left out and yet it’s already so long.”

    …history majors… LOL!

    I would like to have a party in which I could be proud to belong, one that cares about HOW it wins and will not compromise on it’s principles. At least there are people who believe the same.

  20. Obama’s talking from sunrise tonight, I wonder if he’ll get their name straight this time.

  21. JVSP: We are political gypsies – for now.

  22. BTW: That is the cutest PUMA cub picture- I love it!

  23. Dakini: Sunrise FL???? Near Ft Lauderdale???

    Whew. Good I’m not there.

    He’s coming tomorrow to Tampa again.

    Jimmy Buffett gave away free tickets and Obama will appear at the Ford Amphitheatre.

  24. I remember reading SM’s post and commenting to my husband – I’m P.U.M.A.!! It is amazing that it went so far so fast. May 31st is the day the Democratic party lost me. I sent them my torn-up registration card that day and paid $16 to overnight it.

  25. I posted on DU and was one of the last hold outs. So many Hillary supporters left at the end of january. They couldn’t take the abuse. There was probably 50 of us left when I decided to leave mid may. I had posted on the board for many years.

    I took the abuse. I was stalked around the web. I was called a racist too many times to count. I was called a feminazi, seeing sexism around every corner. Sexism was denied as easy as drinking a glass of water. They had no scruples, no morals. I was threatened via private message.

    Now it is an echo chamber of bobots just like they like it. Too bad they live in their own world. It is still hard to believe that I thought I had things in common with those alleged liberals.

    But look what we have now. We have EACHOTHER!

    I LOVE all PUMA’s!

  26. SM77

    cynic, and then cynic with a with a combination of three numbers was my usual. I posted on TM, NoQ even then, as well as Tapperts column and others because the bots there used to make me so angry with their anti-Hillary diatribes. My posts

    We were a Hillary house from the beginning. We were waiting for her to run because we knew her caliber and she was the best the Dems had to offer.

  27. I came here throught TalkLeft after leaving Dkos. It seems like another lifetime when I’d go everyday to read about everything from gardening, cooking to the latest political outrage being committed. I do know that after this primary cycle there are sites that I might visit but I will never be able to see them the same as before.

  28. Just look at what average American People who care about the country can do.
    Think about how much we can do in the future.
    Make politicians accountable for their actions.
    Right now it is the democratic party that has to be straightened out.
    But both parties forgot where they came from and have to be reminded.



  29. I am in moderation. some one release me please!

  30. I fondly remember being there/lurking that fateful night when sm typed that wonderful manifesto!!!! I hope to tell that to my grandkids someday ~ thanks, sm

  31. OT:

    Another Obama relative found in Boston living in the projects:


    Barack Obama has lived one version of the American Dream that has taken him to the steps of the White House. But a few miles from where the Democratic presidential candidate studied at Harvard, his Kenyan aunt and uncle, immigrants living in modest circumstances in Boston, have a contrasting American story.

    Zeituni Onyango, the aunt so affectionately described in Mr Obama’s best-selling memoir Dreams from My Father, lives in a disabled-access flat on a rundown public housing estate in South Boston

  32. please release me let me go!

  33. OT:

    Another Obama relative found in Boston living in the projects:

    Barack Obama has lived one version of the American Dream that has taken him to the steps of the White House. But a few miles from where the Democratic presidential candidate studied at Harvard, his Kenyan aunt and uncle, immigrants living in modest circumstances in Boston, have a contrasting American story.

    Zeituni Onyango, the aunt so affectionately described in Mr Obama’s best-selling memoir Dreams from My Father, lives in a disabled-access flat on a rundown public housing estate in South Boston

    Tried to post the link but my comment disappeared.

    Times Online UK & Drudge are reporting it.

  34. Hi… by way of full disclosure I am an Obama guy and have already cast my vote for him. I just wanted to say that this missive is the closest I have come to understanding the PUMA position. It is well written and thoughtful. Ultimately I disagree with the destination this leads to as well as the allegation of cheating… but I appreciate you taking the time to do this. It helps me understand a fairly large group of fellow Americans. No matter who wins we all still live in the same country on November 5th.. and I think understanding ‘why’ people may disagree with you is not a bad start. I trust you would agree at least on that.

  35. Looking/Cynic – I remember you!

  36. I don’t know myiq. I don’t think we expected us but I had a feeling then that “we” were going to happen. Many put hopes in the DNC believing that their party would not, could not let them down by stooping to such dirty tricks that even the republicans began to look good in comparison (as afr as these types of dirty tricks go).

    I went from blog to blog thinking that we at home could not be the only ones who felt so betrayed at what we were seeing, and then came the convention. Those events crystallized us. I remember thinking that the word PUMA, which went viral, made so much sense as a symbol.

    “The grace and power of the cougar have been widely admired in the cultures of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. The cougar continues to be a symbol of strength and stealth. ..intelligence.”

  37. Someone’s gotta get me outta that place, please!

  38. SM77

    some of my post above disappeared.

    I meant to include that my posts began to not be posted on TM and finally I didn’t want to post there any more anyway…

  39. HELP!!

    I am in moderation but can’t figure out what word caused it. Please let me out:)

  40. Looking: The best thing you did was leave. You have integrity, you’re not just looking for it!

    Taggles – I wish I could – MYIQ should be back & take you out.

  41. Thank you very much to whomever helped me escaped the black hole of moderation!

  42. Wow! I came here as a very involved Republican hoping against all odds Hillary would still win a few weeks after you started and simply lurked. When she didn’t, I have found myself working far harder for a candidate I was angry with (JM) because I just can’t accept BO’s plan for our future at all. I see JM adopting HRC’s mortgage plan, and BO saying NOPE. I know he is not partisan because many I know won’t vote for him b/c he did reach across partisan lines “too many times.” Our Ron Pauler’s got screwed, and I was part of them, but nowhere near what happened to you.

    All I can say is thank you. Has nothing to do with HRC or JM or how you vote, but thank you because I’ve discovered that most of you believe the same as I do, the process should be fair, you share the same ideals and goals for the future. You want your country back, I can understand that, so do I.

  43. OT:

    BO infomercial got ya down, bunky? Skip on over to NewHampster’s place around 7:45p and let’s tawk in a LIVE CHAT (don’t forget to log in!). Yeah, that’s the ticket. We’ll all tawk about it. BYOB

    Misery loves company, ya know.

    Look for the green box at the top of the page.

  44. MYIQ

    Please release me from moderation?

  45. OMG! “Sue” I think just made it to the HughHewitt radio show!

    Gave out the PUMA site and mentioned the protest ag the LATimes sham. (topic of the hour)

    Way to go girl!

  46. wow, that seems like a ifetime ago. mawm and I were driving back home that day after seeing the travesty live. I am so lucky that all of ya’ll were there.

  47. PUMA power!

    Thanks for all you do, this PUMA’s for you! ;o)

    (I also used to blog at you know where, until the koolaid was drunk. i peeked over the other day, which I haven’t done in a couple of months, and it was like a ghost town. I read one of the longer threads (about 15 comments), a convo between about 3 people, and they were laughing about how there were only about 25 pumas left. they were mocking us….just the three of them. oh the irony.)

  48. I used to hang around AmericaBlog and Crooks and Liars a lot, but I mostly lurked at all the pro-Democrat blogs.

    Then little by little, I saw the tides turn and I think I found Corrente & Confluence at the same time around February or so.

    I’m very grateful and happy that we all found each other.

    Yay PUMAs!

  49. sm77:

    RD doesn’t want anyone linking to certain sites and if you try even the moderator can’t save your comment

    Do not pass GO, do not collect $200

  50. I love my Puma family.

  51. IBD/TIPP Tracking Poll: Day Seventeen

    Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2008

    The race tightened again to 3 points Wednesday, a margin IBD/TIPP has shown for six days and to which other polls appear to be migrating. For example, the Rasmussen and Gallup polls, each of which had Obama up 5 points two days ago, now have him at 3. Obama still leads by 5 to 6 points among Independents, but 18% of them remain undecided.

  52. Why-T-roll is back on the last thread, crapping on the rug again

  53. sarainitaly

    I remember you:)

    25 PUMAs? hmmm…how quickly have our stats grown from 3.5M to almost 3.9. many ultiples of 25 PUMA’s would be more correct.


    Good evening, PUMAs!

    Yes, PUMA / Just Say NO DEAL will be on “On the Record with Greta van Susteren” on FOX News tonight, at 10:55pm EST… to discuss Democrats who will NOT be voting for Barack Obama!

    We’re hoping you will tune in!

    Thank you!



    Ps — For you PUMAs in the DC area: Phil Berg will be on the steps of the Supreme Court tomorrow, to discuss Obama’s refusal to reveal the vault copy of his birth certificate. Please join us, in person. Time, to be announced.

    PPs — We at Just Say NO DEAL will be having our Pre-Election Conference Call this Sunday at 5pm Eastern. If you are interested in participating, please visit JustSayNODEAL.com and enter your email address. We’d love to have you!

    PPPs — Any financial support (no matter how big or how small) you can give at this time would be MOST appreciated. As it has been for many of you, it has been a long, volunteered, and expensive Spring, Summer, and Fall! If you are able to do so, please contact me at this email address.

    PPPPs — We can DO this, PUMAs! Think “Dewey Defeats Truman!” Pray hard, work harder, and have faith! And if you live in or near a Swing State — TACKLE it !! And THANK you for all the support and hard work you’ve already given this year! There is SO much good work we’ve already accomplished… and SO much more great work yet to be done! THANK you!


    Will Bower
    PUMA / Just Say NO DEAL

  55. I was just going through my mail and found a PUMA flyer!!! The best piece of political mail I’ve received all year! It’s one of those flyers Murphy has on pumapac.org

    Thanks for the post, myiq. I read Taylor Marsh first, found Heidi Li from there. After the Rules & Bylaws mtg I somehow found Will Bower’s site and then finally landed here.

    And even if I hadn’t found you guys … I would’ve been looking up PUMA based on this flyer today.


  56. MYIQ: it was for the Times UK site – but I know Spammy gets itchy for new blood.

  57. The Rules and Bylaws Committee met on May 31st, and our own garychapelhill and Mawm were in attendance.

    We were outside with Mawm and we heard PUMA on the 31st, so SM77, might have said it on the 31st (Hillbuzz has a photo of the first PUMA yelling PUMA when the fix was in…shock and all!). When we first heard it, we didn’t know what it meant until she yelled
    “Party Unity My Ass”…she had been reading what I the ones inside were blogging on riverdaughter.

    By the way Mawn went through several signs…he started out with a big one and was rained out…then got others (never give up). It was nice to see him at the re-union, nice and dry.

    So, just wanted to say, that we stayed (not matter what) as we thought the tornado warnings were false…and we were willing to get all wet. The things we would go through for Hillary, THE BEST CANDIDATE THAT JUST HAPPENED TO BE A WOMAN!

  58. sm77:

    You can only link to english-speaking sites

  59. Woman Voter: It was June 1st, day after the rules & bylaws meeting – we were doing a happy cocktail time for Hillary’s win in PR.

  60. myiq2xu, on October 29th, 2008 at 7:38 pm Said:


    You can only link to english-speaking sites


  61. Woman Voter: i don’t know who you are referring to – but hey, it was kismet.

  62. I love this post, thank you for writing it, myiq2xu.

    Used to blog at TM a little, but lurked at most of the others mentioned here. This place is a life saver.

    Big Dawg is coming to my little hometown tomorrow.

    It would be a little of a dream come true to see him.
    It breaks my heart that I would probably feel so sad being there.

  63. You mean that was you in the flesh, getting all wet under the trees with us? Carpetride and I were there on the 31st when she started yelling while looking at the PDA…(at first we just looked…thought she was really really upset) PUMA and she was Latina!

  64. Woman Voter:

    Gary and Mawm never mentioned hearing it on the 31st, and I’ve never seen anyone until you say that SM wasn’t the first.

    Do you have a link?

  65. Woman Voter – that wasn’t me! I was here in FL.

  66. Fuzzy had a funny day….see he took his car in to have the Oil changed at 730 am ….and that is when things started going down hill.

    I told the guy my lunch was at 1 pm and that I need to pick up my car then…no problem just and oil change.

    I have a loose handle on my drivers side door of my fully loaded 1988 Honda Accord…well the guy who took me to work knew this and I had said on previous visits I could not afford to repair it and to please be careful….

    well aI got to work and they asked if I could take an early lunch ai hemmed and hawed but called my repairman to ask if the care could be ready…..

    Thats when I got the good news-bad news from the mechanic….good news my oil was changed bad news the car was not ready….see some one forgot to tell the gorillia to be careful with my handle and he yanked it right off….

    I was visually obvious the handle needed to be treated with care but this guy did not care. Now my car would not be ready because 1988 hoinda accord drivers front side door handles are not easy to come by!

    Well they found one finally but could not get it here till tommorrow so they needed to keep the car over night.

    I said ok and my friend offered m a ride home after our staff meeting. at 705 the friend drops me off and I then realize I do not have my house keys!

    Sh*t! I manage to find a stack of plastic chairs and a window I can jimmy open well big ol fuzzy bear fall through….and he is on his but in the bedroom cut and dirty…

    isnt that a great day for you?

    sorry so long!

  67. I’m so glad you put that question out there “Where do we go from here.” As a Conservative I’ve been on this site since I found out about it on Fox news. Back then I was curious and a bit hopeful you might vote for McCain. But over time as I have gotten to know your story and really understand the injustices’ you faced during the primaries I consider my self a PUMA advocate and supporter.

    I know what the acronym PUMA stands for but for me it means someone who is brave,strong and courageous. Someone who believes the Democrate Party and it’s principals are worth reclaiming. I can see Democrats in 2010 testing thier candidates ” PUMA” credentials. PUMA Senators and Congressmen will be the one’s who stand up against their party when needed;weed out corruption when they see it.

    The PUMA’S didn’t create a movement, they started a Revolution! GO, PUMA’S GO!

    P.S. I come here everyday because PUMA’s are more optimistic about McCain winning than any conservative I can find. YOU MAKE MY DAY!

  68. SM77,

    I won’t say what we were yelling as…we were upset, and well I imagine someone could post that some where. Lordy Lordy that wouldn’t look to lady like. Off now, thanks for giving me a good laugh. 🙂 Memories… 😮

  69. I’m sorry, Fuzzy.

  70. ((((((((( FUZZY !!!!! ))))))))

    Woman Voter – PUMA was lurking in the universe and it was bound to come out – whether it was angry Latina under the tree at the RBC, or the angry Latina at the Confluence!

  71. myiq2xu, thanks for putting this into perspective in your inimitable style!

    BuzzFlash saved my life from Nov. 2000 until 2008 when it started linking to articles slanted toward Obama and against Clinton. Couldn’t get them to stop or even admit it. I lost respect.

    I found Taylor until she started banning and insulting people because she switched to Obama.

    Then I found Heidi Li and Bitter (until it went private – miss lots of those posters.)

    Three cheers for the birthplace of the PUMAs, the Confluence! Thanks sm77

  72. Well, maybe I should just shout up, as I maybe Joe Plumbered further and that wouldn’t be nice. Life is rough when you speak your mind, but it is funny that both are Latinas! 😮 (SHOCK)

  73. hey, myiq, i have pics….maybe we could add one to the post…

  74. ((((((fuzzy))))))

  75. gary:

    Isn’t this post long enough already?

    How about a photo montage on Saturday?

    The RBC meating, your trip to Unity, the convention

  76. Wow – hard to believe it’s been 5 months already since PUMA – I was lurking here on the 31st & heard the paryt unity my ass – found Murphy’s site on the 5th & joined PUMAPac that day – hope that this group continues after the 5th – hoping I don’t have to move out of the country – don’t think I can handle the teleprompter jesus……………………

  77. Delurking yet again. I used to post sporadically on the orange cheeto, lurked at TM, TL, Digby and Steve’s replacement blog. Then I found Riverdaughter, in January. I’ve been lurking every day ever since, and was lurking when SM posted the PUMA comment. I laughed a lot, but thought that it had possibilities. Never did I guess that Puma would become a silent movement, but I’m so glad I was present at it’s birth.
    PS, now I lurk here (daily several times), at Pumapac, SugarnSpice, Reclusiveliberal, Cinie and a very few other sites. While we lurkers don’t have much to write, we do carry a punch when required.
    Thank you again to Riverdaughter, MyiQ SM bostonboomer, Madam, Kat and all the contributers and commenters. You are wonderful people.
    Back to lurkerdom, but trust me, I’ll be here every day. BTW, I’ve got a few friends hooked, who also lurk. The power of lurkerdom can never be polled, can never be assessed, but it’s there.

  78. You should have seen the look on that ones face…when she read the fix was in. She had little sheet of paper promoting riverdaughter’s site, I showed RD her photo and she didn’t seem to know and well you know we all want to stay in the cyber incognito shield until we are ready to come on out. 😮 (shock)

  79. myiq2xu, on October 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm Said:


    How about a photo montage on Saturday?

    Yup, I have a good one of Gary and Mawm! Photos are good! I even got Harriet!

  80. thanks all trying to make dinner now! I will be ok I am home at the confluence!

  81. Got to run, you all have a good day and tell yourselves you are not in CUBA (where the leader shows up on all the channels). 😮 YOU ARE ONLY IN TEH ONE’S POLITICO (hypnotic) TWILIGHT ZONE.

  82. Only Castro, Chavez, the kooky Kim Il Jong would do what Obama is doing tonight.

  83. I never went to kos — I wasn’t involved at all on blogs until this election after I saw what started happening to Hillary in the media (Jesse Jackson Jr’s “we need to examine those tears” comment after NH is what turned me into a Hillary supporter & spurred me to do my own research on the internet). I found TM & TL first and this site from there. Helen — I remember when TM changed too — it was after she became an “official blogger” for the convention. I was here the day of the May 31st debacle — thanks sm for coining the term PUMA!! I remember it — I laughed and I knew I was never going to vote for BO, but I never thought we would “stick together” like we have. I too tore up my Dem. voters registration card & mailed it to Dean. I’m now an “Unaffiliated” voter in NC. You know, this election has really made me wonder why I consider myself a Democrat — it is because I thought the Dems stood for fair voting, women’s rights, GLBT rights, separation of church & state. Honestly, if I voted my “pocket book” I wouldn’t have any need to vote Dem. So, with this candidate, who won the nomination through voter fraud & intimidation misogyny, who toured SC with McClurkin & has a “Faith, Family & Values” Tour can someone please explain to me why I should even consider myself Dem much less vote Dem? I’ll take PUMA.

  84. love this site and all the others like it, a week from now this nightmare will be over, here’s to hoping and praying all the hard work put in by tons of people pays off in a most brilliant and breathtaking way. 🙂

  85. Just of curiosity, how many folks here would vote for Palin if she was the GOP nominee in 2012, and there was no woman on the Democratic ticket? Would you consider joining the GOP under such circumstances?

  86. John – Let’s not go there yet – please. Hillary owes me a 2012 run.

    And the Republicans owe us PUMAs for helping them.

  87. woman, that sounds awesome…we should put them together and hav e a slide show 🙂 can you do that on wordpress?

  88. John:

    Ask me in 2012

    But does the GOP want a liberal wing filled with hard core DFH moonbats?

    Cuz we aren’t gonna be part of any party that doesn’t want us and respect us.

  89. Evening Guys. I tried to watch the Obama thing and could not stomach it any longer.

  90. John — I never make plans that far ahead.

  91. afrocity — I’m watching America’s Next Top Model on CW — at least they had enough integrity not to go for the $.

  92. I am watching O’reily.

  93. going home

    “see” you all later!

    and thank you myiq for the post

  94. Photos from DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee Meeting 05/31/08
    myiq2xu, here is the link but I won’t ID me or anyone else! There are plenty of photos including HILL CAR.

    The link won’t go through? Go to the old Hillbuzzblogspot

  95. OK, now I am late…bye! 🙂

  96. garychapelhill, on October 29th, 2008 at 8:10 pm Said:

    woman, that sounds awesome…we should put them together and hav e a slide show 🙂 can you do that on wordpress?

    We should get one ready for the day before the election. OK, now I am super late.!

  97. Did you hear about the woman in Pittsburgh that was wearing a Palin button and a guy came over to her and said “That is not a reason to vote for John McCain”?

    When she told him that Palin was not the only reason for voting for McCain. He started attacking her and asked her if she was a high school graduate. She told him that she had a masters degree, and he started swinging at her.

  98. Delurking yet again.
    John, you ask
    “how many folks here would vote for Palin if she was the GOP nominee in 2012, and there was no woman on the Democratic ticket? Would you consider joining the GOP under such circumstances?”

    I suspect that you don’t know Puma is a diverse group that is united in wanting equality – for females, for LGBT, for blacks, browns whomever.
    Palin is not Hillary, and never will be.
    Support depends on who is running, what their background is and what their policies are.

  99. John, on October 29th, 2008 at 8:07 pm Said:
    Just of curiosity, how many folks here would vote for Palin if she was the GOP nominee in 2012, and there was no woman on the Democratic ticket? Would you consider joining the GOP under such circumstances?

    Depends. Are we talkin’ about the same “dimocrats” currently holding our true-blue party hostage? If so, I wouldn’t be nearly adverse to the idea as I would looking at those current band of thugs — Dean, Pelosi, Brazile.

  100. Ooooh, good. Is the Obama show on now? I just sent my husband out to get milk. Whooops! Looks like he’ll miss it.

  101. […] at the Confluence, Read about the history of PUMA and why we say no to the Cult of […]

  102. afrocity
    Got a link?


    A note that WILL will be on Greta (she rocks) tonight.

  104. Excellent post MyIQ. I started at Kos, left because of the exact scenario you described, found MyDD, which was about 50/50 at the time and then they started getting pushy about unity already. Someone responded to one of my comments with, “You must be a PUMA.” So, I googled it, found the Confluence and never looked back. (Okay, I did go back a few times to see what they were up to and to cause trouble,,,)

  105. I won’t join the GOP, but if they want to bid for my vote I am willing to consider offers.

    How do they feel about UHC?

  106. I’m listening to:

    You can join Sheri, Darragh and me on The Lions Share at 8:00PM EST on NO WE WON’T/PUMA United Radio (PURrrrr).

    They said Barack’s ad is all about him. A vanity show – his whole life is a vanity show.

  107. jvsp, if you mean for the story. No, I heard it on the Hannity show, it was a caller.

  108. I am GOP now

  109. Btw, myiq – KUDOS on the post. I too was present the day SM sounded the “P(arty)U(nity)M(y)A(ss)” alarm. And we’ve only just begun.


  110. Ras tomorrow says for the first time:

    McCain better on the Economy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    McCain/Palin 2009

  111. More power to P U M A

    More power to W O M E N

  112. afrocity
    I want to forward the story… I’m sure it will toss up…

    O’s pre-election “state of the union” is bloody nauseating.. still looking for the marionette strings…

  113. britgirls — LMAO — now you are a woman who knows how to e married!

  114. okay. there is a real built guy using a jackhammer on discovery channel with his muscles rippling in slow mo … that beats Obambam any day

  115. Wrong – not the ad: SURGEON

  116. I’m staying “Unaffiliated” — that seem to be the only group both parties care about (each taking for granted that the registered “Rs” & “Ds” will vote straight party line). Heck, I’ve got no room to complain about the ingratitude, as I made it easy for them to take my vote for granted for my entire voting life (until now). From now on, it is a case by case, person by person evaluation for my vote regardless of party.

  117. John, you ask
    “how many folks here would vote for Palin if she was the GOP nominee in 2012, and there was no woman on the Democratic ticket? Would you consider joining the GOP under such circumstances?”

    I suspect that you don’t know Puma is a diverse group that is united in wanting equality – for females, for LGBT, for blacks, browns whomever.

    I was inspired to ask the question because I’ve seen some folks here and on other PUMA sites talk about justifying a vote for the McCain-Palin ticket in terms of getting more women into high office, typically mentioning a 30% threshold that needs to be exceeded. Needless to say, I’m wondering what the priorities would be under the circumstances I mentioned above.

  118. Hey everyone got a nice Email from Bill and Hill about uniting the party…here is my response I have not sent yet any additional demands before I send it?

    He is open to our ideas!

    Mr. President,

    My respect for you knows no bounds. I am a PUMA democrat. I am not going to vote for Barak Obama. You cannot entice me to vote for that fraud, I am voting John McCain. Please know I am ready to rejoin the fold when Barak Obama is no longer the leader of the Democratic Party. We PUMAS are committed to reform the party, but we do not think that can be achieved with Barak Obama in the Whitehouse.

    We are tirelessly working for his defeat. I hope you have a plan B when McCain is President of the US. I hope you and Hillary can bring yourselves to tell the party elite “We told you so!” we are ready for Hillary to lead us to take back the party after November 5th.

    We will willingly admit and take full responsibility for Mr. Obama’s defeat. We have waited 8 years for “The Real Deal” the FDR for our time. That person was Hillary R Clinton. We will accept no substitute. We stand ready to begin fundraising for her on November 5th. We want her in 2012! We are patient and we respect you and Hillary keeping your word to the party. We do not believe they are honorable enough Men nor Woman to deserve the credibility you lend them but I respect you decision.

    Please respect ours and an acknowledgement of it after Obama’s defeat on November 4th would begin the healing process for us.

    We have some demands first a PUMA Commission to look into the rigging of the 2008 presidential process and the nominating process. This committee will have complete oversight of the RBC and needs to have the ability to remove RBC members who will not adhere to party rules. It will also make specific changes to the nomination system such as delegate apportionment and the elimination of the caucus system. It will have wide powers to enforce its changes.

    Next we demand the immediate resignation of Howard Dean replacing him with Harold Ickes as Party Chairperson. We will require that Donna Brazile resign from all her positions and surrender her super-delegate status.

    All party members that participated in the selection and gaming of the nomination process to ensure Barak Obama being our candidate will be required to sign a written acknowledgement of their actions and issue an apology to the Party in general and America as a whole.

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi resigns as speaker and refuses a second term. We also demand that Harry Reid step aside as majority leader in the senate, and nominate Hillary Clinton as Majority leader.

    The Democratic Party commit to the 30% solution for 2012 and the 50% solution for 2020.

    We have other demands that will have to be met or entertained if the Democratic Party ever wants to see the inside of the oval office again. We are in control now and we want reform PUMA style.

    Very Respectfully,

    Michael P Varvel

  119. Carol — I think the “Sorry I’m Tardy” video should be an ad too! LOL

  120. Angienc: That’s an excellent strategy

  121. Angie:

    Playing hard to get?

  122. angienc, Said:

    ” From now on, it is a case by case, person by person evaluation for my vote regardless of party.”


    Yes, the Democrats shot themselves in the foot this time I think they’re drooling for a victory, but they really underestimated the American people.

  123. myiq — what makes you think I’m “playing?”

  124. John, I’m pro-choice, the republican party has made it clear that pro-choice folks aren’t welcome, they especially hate pro-choice women … also, i strongly believe in the seperation of church and state, the republican party is not beneath selling that out to get a few votes from evangelical christians … I’m protest voting at the moment, and I think Obama is singularly unready to be commander and chief, but give me two similarly qualified candidates, and i’ll chose the one that supports gay rights, women’s right to choose, seperation of church and state, stem cell research, and basically the bill of rights, every time

  125. angienc, on October 29th, 2008 at 8:32 pm Said:
    I’m staying “Unaffiliated” — that seem to be the only group both parties care about (each taking for granted that the registered “Rs” & “Ds” will vote straight party line). Heck, I’ve got no room to complain about the ingratitude, as I made it easy for them to take my vote for granted for my entire voting life (until now). From now on, it is a case by case, person by person evaluation for my vote regardless of party.

    Ditto. Done swimming in that cesspool of koolaid.

  126. I dont’ remember how I came here – I didn’t even know what a blog was -I guess I just stumbled upon you all and found many souls who thought the way I did – I was hurting badly after they stole the nomination and needed to know more about what was going on – I’ve learned a lot from all of you. Thank you. 🙂

  127. Excuse me it this has been posted already. A new Obama ad takes a hit at Palin. Here’s the video and an article:


    I love that wink.

  128. dakinikat — the problem this election for me is there doesn’t seem to be a nominee who supports gay rights (McClurkin, Kmeic), women’s right to choose (along with her pastor, husband and not just ’cause she’s “feeling blue”), separation of church and state (BO’s been pandering to the EVs too), and basically the bill of rights (FISA). The fact that the Dem party cheated to give a guy like that the nomination says to me (to paraphrase Teh Precious) “that isn’t the Dem Party I knew.”

  129. fuzzy, great letter!

  130. yup, angie, i definitely agree with that

  131. we really soidified right after RBC, but there was a second influx of folks after TM started mainlining the kool-aid, we probably got about half of her posters…lol…and we got about twice as big.

  132. I am so sorry that you had to experience what I as an opinionated woman who won’t carry *any* party’s water has had to deal with for a long time: the “lying sack of shit” zingers. Coming here makes me hope for sane dialogue with people. I always learn more from those with whom I disagree, as long as they are coherent and respectful in their disagreement. I have modified many positions over the years as a result of reasoned argument that leaves the opponent’s dignity and personhood intact.

    During the administration of He Who Must Be Obeyed, I expect that a lot of these Web sites will be shut down–or those of us who post may receive in-home visits from the Boys in Black as a result. God help us all.

  133. angienc, left you a note below about the Marie discussion. I got up the courage (or foolishness) to watch the BO commercial. I’m literally sick with all that smooth talk and distorted rhetoric. I’m totally with you on the need for a candidate who stands up for the separation of church and state. PUMAs, be strong!

  134. I honestly can’t remember how I ended up here the first time.

    It may have been a link from Corrente, I went there before I came here.

  135. Poll of military members:

    Click to access 102708tns_nov-poll.pdf

  136. i used to follow texasdalin’s blog pretty avidly. When that looked like shutting up shop for a while I noticed the Confluence on the WordPress Top Blogs list, and found a great site and a great bunch of people. Helped my depressed feelings very much. I love the intelligence and the passion (and that’s just myiq!)

  137. Gordon — got your note! It’s for your own good! LOL

  138. In fairness, I should add, I came for the Hillary support, like mindedness but I’ve stayed for myiq.

  139. I apologize everyone for leaving abruptly. I was having it out with a Canadian Obot. I needed to eat and just cool my heels.
    I get really stressed sometimes.

    Oh God O’reilly has the clip from Charles Barkely and Campbell Brown. Charles is race baiting. I remember saw btwn Lou Dobbs that Campbell Brown was going to have Charles on and I thought is she crazy. That is a good interviewee?

  140. In fairness, I should add, I came for the Hillary support, like mindedness but I’ve stayed for myiq.

    There’s no accounting for taste. 😛

    On a completely different note, I think it helped a lot that the Confluence in on WordPress. I consider it the best blogging host around. And it’s free—can’t beat that.

  141. I followed alegre’s lead here, via MyDD (which was quickly getting crunk on the “koolaid” ).

  142. Now you gone and made Captain Spaulding blush again.


  143. fuzzzybear, what a great letter. My thoughts exactly.

  144. I came here is a refugee from DU. Damn, I’m embarrassed to admit that — it’s such a sinkhole. At least being a refugee from DKos has some cachet. I’m, like, a refugee from the seedy, run down 7-11 on the edge of town.

    I was feeling so defeated when I first found this site because honestly, I was so used to DU and had been going there since 9-11, I didn’t really know other sites. I hadn’t started supporting HRC initially, but her tenacity drew me in, and a huge factor fwas revulsion with the press and BO fans. The HRC hate was repugnant — taggles, I hear you. I disliked BO from square one — thought he was a flim-flam artist and could hear the rumblings of cult of personality. Someone on the HRC group on DU (where a bunch of us were hiding by the end) linked RD’s post about KO’s vile special comment on Hillary — please don’t do it, for the sake of my daughter. I’ve never left. I’ve happily found other sites I go to now, too. I guess I’m awestruck by how much has been achieved by the rebel alliance — I don’t feel defeated at all. Pissed, sure. But I think of what this would have been like without the internet to link us… can you imagine the crushing isolation? I couldn’t believe it when myiq reminded us that it’s a 5-month old movement. How much has been accomplished! Astonishing.

    In any case, I’m not sure I’m really a PUMA, since I’ve left the Democratic party and have no interest in rejoining a political party ever again. Like angie and edwardian, I’m indy and evaluating candidates, issues, and fellow travelers on an individual basis. I’ve found fellow travelers in Republicans, too, which is weird because I’m pretty left, LOL. But no more kool-aid that says Repubs are evil and Dems are good. Can’t do that anymore. I don’t know if those not interested in re-joining the Dems, even reformed, can be PUMAs, but here I am. How about this: I’m a PUMA-lover. I guess if we’re going to rebuild from the dust, we need all sorts in the rebel alliance.

    Long live the resistance! Plus, this place makes the best drinks in town.

  145. totally OT – …I was reading people magazine and found out that Toby Keith is a PUMA (though he doesn’t know it!)…

    he said ” they’ve run me out of the democratic party. they don’t represent anything I stand for anymore. but there are just as many sickos on the right…that’s why I’m not registering republican. I don’t see things as right or left, I see things as right or wrong.”

    I am happy to know this about him… I have been so tired of all the obot celeb endorsements.

  146. OT — Have y’all seen this?


  147. Britannia, on October 29th, 2008 at 9:01 pm Said:

    I think it helped a lot that the Confluence in on WordPress. I consider it the best blogging host around. And it’s free—can’t beat that.

    And it allows you to write in LaTeX.

    For sexy math check out http://terrytao.wordpress.com

  148. urgetocompute, really? Wow, I didn’t know that, thanks for pointing it out. I’ll bookmark that link.

  149. I should have posted this in madamab’s post below (but I actually had to get work done). Anyhow, two other things this election has shown me: the Republicans are not “the devil” — yes, the extreme right of the GOP are bad news, but guess what? It looks like the “extreme left” of the Dems are too — they’ve proven that they, like the Rove boys, will do “anything (including lying, cheating & stealing) to win.” However, I believe those in the middle (or slightly left or right from center) of both parties have a lot more in common with each other then they do with the extremes of their own party. Unfortunately, those extremes in both parties are the “loudest” group in either, and they often prevent a real dialogue between those in the middle of both parties. Second, the pro-choice/pro-life issue is a fabrication by the men in both parties to manipulate the women in their own parties & that, right there, ensures Roe v. Wade will not be overturned. The fact is, women on both sides are more concerned about “women’s issues” that is, women’s health issues, female equality, prevention of unwanted pregnancies & child rearing/child care issues then the men in either party are. So, while I don’t agree with a Palin on the specific question of abortion, I’m far more confident that she would work to address those other “women’s issues” that are important to me then a man would.

  150. As promised, IQ, my post at Corrente. I’m still a bit under the weather so I didn’t make it as inflammatory as I was originally thinking.

  151. alice — LMAO!! DU couldn’t have been that bad if you were there!

  152. poplicola,

    That is hilarious!!!!!

  153. Unless you are the victim of rape or incest or the health of the Mother endangered or can’t envision having a child that is less than perfect (which they all are), I think it is time for people to start making their Pro-Choice decisions prior to having sex and getting impregnated.

    It is getting a little old and tiresome hearing about everyone’s right to their womb decisions after the fact. We aren’t in the dark ages. Use protection if you don’t want a child. Using abortion for poor decision making prior to sex is not the fault of the Republicans or anyone but the players involved. How about some personal responsibility? That would be refreshing!


  154. GQM:

    Excellent post!

    Now lets see what your co-bloggers think

  155. Copied from All American Blogger :
    Saul Alinsky’s “RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.” Michelle Malkin shows how Obama is using that rule to go after GOP donors.

    “you’re a goat-fucking piece of shit”
    Could this be part of a strategy to intimidate political opposition ?
    Today I was reading “A speechwriter for Obama, Edwards, and Clinton on why she’s voting McCain.” on The Daily Beast. The comment section was full of vile abuse directed at the writer and her opinion.
    Are these really Democrats? Who are these people? They are definitely not ME. Will I support this? NO.

    Thanks myiq for this history I enjoyed it.
    I knew the name riverdaughter was a place I could call home and the video the other day “Down to the River to Pray” was a soul gift. Thank you Pumas, one and all.
    A refuge for the targeted, for those that would not comply. It has been a difficult time. We have done all we can to question the one who will offer us no answers. We have tried to see the man behind the repetitious controlled talking points. Now the people will decide. I will just be happy when it is over.

  156. Thanks all for being here! I lurk everyday and comment now and then. Found this site after being on Hillary’s, then TM, then TL. This is home! You’ve kept me sane and comforted me! This is where I’ll be Nov. 4 and hopefully thereafter….celebrating and working on our issues.

  157. gq — great post — I second myiq — I eagerly await the response.

  158. I find celebrity endorsements to be insulting. Why the hell would Matt Damon think that his opinion is worth more than anyone else’s? And that Joy Behar. You know when you were a kid and an adult would tell you that your face was gonna get “stuck like that.” Well, her face got “stuck like that.” She always looks like she just bit into a lemon. I certainly don’t give a rat’s behind who these folks are voting for. And it’s presumptuous of them to think anyone does.

  159. Carol, not all “protection” is 100%. I’ve known people who got preggers despite using protection. Now these folks decided to have the child, but its not what they planned or were trying for. Also, I’m sorry, but the whole “using abortion as birth control” meme is beyond absurd. I don’t know of anyone who does that. The tales of promiscuous women licking their chops to have an abortion are as valid as the Welfare Queens in limos.

  160. gxm — in fairness, I wouldn’t call Joy Behar a celebrity.

  161. Just as I predicted I fell asleep on the couch when it was time for The Oracle to come on to proclaim his own greatness. I am devastated to have missed it as I was expecting he was about to deliver the meaning of life and there I was snoozing.

    Doubt if I will get over this.

  162. Violet Socks is on Fire:

    If you want to reprimand the Democrats for what they did to Hillary Clinton — and to the entire party and our democratic process and to women as a political class — you have to do it now. There is no other time. If you want to make it clear that misogyny against women candidates is unacceptable — even when the candidate is a Republican, like Sarah Palin — you have to do it now. There is no other time. You cannot wait four years and then try to teach the lesson. You cannot let them jump on the couch, let them snooze there and fart and get their hair on the cushions and burp up their kibble and chew the fringe off the pillows, and then four years later say, “Oh, hey, you know back years ago when you jumped on the couch? That was a no-no!”


  163. IQ, I like trying to get under Lambert’s skin or making him stake a position. Mostly because he’s mature about things and is willing to admit when sh*t isn’t right. He didn’t take my last bait though.

  164. Carol — I have got to agree with gq on the “using abortion as birth control” meme. HOWEVER, my point is: all the time fighting over the “right to choose” v. “right to life” is better spent & far more productively spent discussing the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies from occurring — that is a place rife for finding common ground between both sides & a place were progress can actually be made for the benefit of all women.

  165. So, just as we predicted the Obama effigy is “hate” but the Palin effigy isn’t. These folks are truly unhinged. Either it’s hate or it’s not. You can’t say it’s hate when it’s directed at a black man and then turn around and say it’s not when it’s directed at a white woman. That’s inconsistent logic. Unless of course you think that women are “lesser” than men…

  166. myiq: Exactly. I keep saying to forget 2012. It is the here and now that matters. Waiting for someone else to take up the cry is a waste of time. None of them are about to give up their cushy seats to take a much needed stand.

    2012 is just another excuse for Waiting for Godot. Ain’t going to happen.

  167. Good point:

    all the time fighting over the “right to choose” v. “right to life” is better spent & far more productively spent discussing the best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies from occurring — that is a place rife for finding common ground between both sides & a place were progress can actually be made for the benefit of all women.

    And, actually, Planned Parenthood several years ago reached out to the pro-life groups about reducing the number of abortions and received, essentially, a middle finger.

  168. Pat, I fell asleep too! 😀

  169. LOL Angie. If only Joy Behar would realize that and just STHU.

  170. gq — true, but time to try again & maybe start by focusing on the more “in the middle” GOP women, and not the guys who are bombing abortion clinics.

  171. myiq2xu, on October 29th, 2008 at 9:24 pm Said:

    Violet Socks is on Fire:



  172. SM: Terrific post! I was here when PUMA was born and often feel like one of the midwives in attendance.

    I too had bookmarked many left wing blogs but was coming to the conclusion that they had gone insane with Hillary hate and the obsession for Obama became louder each day. Like many here, I was called out by the sharks each time I tried to comment on behalf of Hillary and found it becoming more and more distasteful. Was just about to give up when Riverdaughter issued her invitation to join her. The difference was amazing and a balm against those morons who used their anonymity to bathe themselves in vulgarity.

    Happy Birthday Baby Puma! We are all so proud!

  173. gxm17, on October 29th, 2008 at 9:25 pm Said:

    So, just as we predicted the Obama effigy is “hate” but the Palin effigy isn’t. These folks are truly unhinged. Either it’s hate or it’s not. You can’t say it’s hate when it’s directed at a black man and then turn around and say it’s not when it’s directed at a white woman. That’s inconsistent logic. Unless of course you think that women are “lesser” than men

    It’s not that, it is the history — see a lot more black men died from lynchings then women died from violence. /s

  174. I really don’t think the ratio of “protection failure to abortion” is consistent.

    I personally don’t care who has one. And, I’ve known plenty of people that have used it as “birth control”. Most people don’t test the meme that if you stick your hand in a fire you will get burned, but they are more than willing to have sex thinking they won’t get pregnant.

    It’s time to grow up and be responsible.

  175. I said this here before and got in trouble, but I feel strongly about it, so here goes. It really irks me when people talk about how birth control is not reliable. that is just baloney. when used correctly birth control methods such as condoms can be up to 99% effective. If people were taught to use them effectively, and every time, unwanted pregnancies could be virtually non-existent. I worked in the early 90’s at the nat’l cdc AIDS hotline, and it was arguments against condom effectiveness from the far right that led to abstinence programs. People that get pregnant “accidentally” probably were not using birth control, or putting it on late, or doing it drunk or whatever…but it is not because birth control is not effective. Do not blame unwanted pregnancy on birth control. that’s worse than the whole “abortion as birth control” argument many here find offensive…./rant

  176. I for one survived an epidemic that probably killed about a third of my peer group becuase of the effectivness of condoms

  177. Comaring the injustices borne by one group with the injustices borne by another only separates us. Injustice to anyone is a violation of our civil rights and proclaiming one above the other perpetuates injustice by overlooking this fact.

    As long as this logic exists we are all perpetual victims. Some more than others are quite comfortable wearing that label. I am not.

  178. Point well taken, Gary.

  179. gary — you are probably right, and I’m not disagreeing with you — but sex ed and/or availability of cheap, effective birth control is a place I think those in the middle of both parties can find common ground. I am advocating that people in the middle put aside the pro-choice/pro-life debate (which always leads to inflamed arguments, not discussions, in my experience, but maybe it’s just me!) for a minute & start debating some of these other areas.

  180. Anyhow, two other things this election has shown me: the Republicans are not “the devil” — yes, the extreme right of the GOP are bad news

    angienc, which Republicans would you potentially consider voting for, if they represented your state or district? Who would you classify as being moderate or centrist?

  181. You know, I recall last year when Jena was in the news and I had to point out to folks that the only hanging that I knew of in current news was a 6-year old girl who was sexually assaulted and then murdered by hanging.


  182. What is abortion used for if you have not been raped or incested or health of the Mother or less than perfect child?

    What’s left???? {{{{{{{{{{crickets}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

  183. When you behave and speak with impunity it is hate.

  184. I remember it well! Sidenote: I tried to change my registration from Democrat to Puma but was unable to do so– how can we go about getting Puma actually recognized as a political party? I think we’re at least as legitimate as Bob Barr Libertarians. Would this be a state by state isssue?

  185. I believe in a womens right to choose. I REFUSE to allow a party to use it as a tool to blackmail me.
    I am bigger than my uterus. If McCain or Palin enforce backstreet abortion, WE WILL pounce and growl. We have trusted them, lets see if they reciprocate.

  186. John — I’m voting for McCain — I’m in an alleged swing state. I have no problem voting for him — he seems to be a man of principles and integrity, especially compared to the alternative. Other then him, though, I don’t know the Republicans as well as I know the Dems — I had, prior to this election, been drinking the “GOP bad” kool aid for a long time.

  187. “Poplicola”

  188. Petal — I agree — I REFUSE to be blackmailed with the loss of rights I ALREADY HAVE!!!!

  189. I want abortion to be safe and legal in the United States. I don’t know anyone who takes having an abortion lightly. How many people look forward to intrusive medical procedures. Putting energy into prevention of unwanted pregnancies and support for women who have children that they’re not able to provide for would be so much more productive.

  190. PUMA wasn’t the only thing I didn’t expect.

    I expected HillaryHate, but not from Democrats.

    I expected that if Obama was the nominee we would see lots of racism, but all we got was false accusations.

    I expected a low-down dirty campaign, but I expected the GOP to be the ones doing it.

  191. Carol — there is no way to know every single sad conditions those poor women who are faced with that choice are in — that is why I believe it is up to them, not me, and certainly not up to men in Washington, to decide.

  192. McCain/Palin will be a wonderful team in the White House. We need them now!

  193. Carol:

    Do you want to be in charge of deciding if a women “deserves” an abortion?

  194. Gary, I completely understand your point.

    But there are so many people who don’t use common sense when it comes to sex. Yes, birth control can be effective but it’s also not practical to assume people will always use good judgement when in the throes of passion or lust or drunken hook up. Unplanned pregnancies will remain a constant whether through irresponsibility or chance.

  195. I think Carol is advocating personal responsibility, that’s all. I don’t speak for her, of course.

  196. myiq — ever see the “sponge worthy” Seinfeld episode? Who is “choice worthy?” lol

  197. ultimately if you are for safe legal abortions, then how a woman becomes pregnant should be irrelevant

  198. I can’t believe that Alan “Scarecrow” Colmes just said that tehir are a lot of disaffected Repubs voting for Obama , yet he failed to mention PUMAs

  199. We need to rise above party and look very carefully at the candidate and seriously question why they are willing to put themselves out there and how electing them will aid us.

    They may all start out full of piss and vinegar, eager to go to Washington and hopefully make a difference but what usually transpires is that once they get there they plan on staying forever. Here in MA alone, John Kerry is seeking his 7th term in office. And how deserving is he?

    This crowd over the past 8 years have gotten us into an immoral war, rubberstamped all that Bush requested, brought us closer to financial ruin, gave away the treasury, fixed our votes, sanctioned the Patriot Act, extended FISA, helped create Abu Gharib, made excuses for Bush and company, gave us Alioto and Roberts, refused to impeach,
    watched the oil companies rape the public, stood by while our food supply and other imported products were brought into the country full of contamination, and completely sold us out.

    The tragedy is that both parties are culpable and praising one while dismissing the other is just plain stupid. Corruption breeds on both sides and until there is a clarion call for term limits this practice will go unabated for years to come.

  200. gary — I’m for safe legal abortions, no doubt about it. But I am also for reducing the number of those via reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. I think you can want both.

  201. What a wonderful walk down memory lane. I was here that afternoon when SM named our movement, and it’s been an honor and privilege to share it all with you.

    I’m just jumping on, and heard on the radio that McCain had a commercial before and after the Boy Emperor held forth for half an hour. I wasn’t anywhere near a TV or a computer, and I wouldn’t have watched him anyway. I’ll catch up after I get settled in, but what was the consensus for those who subjected themselves to his Holiness?

  202. afrocity — Scarecrow can’t help himself — cluelessness is his number 1 trait.

  203. aWOmen! gary! That’s exactly it!

  204. Yes, thanks to my fellow PUMA’S!
    You kept me somewhat sane for the past few months. I’m another lurker sometimes commenter who’s been around since right after TM started drinking the kool-aid. I looked around at some of the other sites and felt this one had intelligent posts and good conversation. When I first heard “PUMA” I knew for sure I was home cause that’s exactly the way I felt!

  205. There may be 3-4 Seinfeld episodes I’ve never seen.

    “Sponge-worthy” isn’t one of them.

    I’m sort of a cross between George and Newman, with a dash of Cosmo

  206. Maybe it is time to form the WOMBEN PARTY.

  207. angienc, on October 29th, 2008 at 9:44 pm Said:
    Carol — there is no way to know every single sad conditions those poor women who are faced with that choice are in — that is why I believe it is up to them, not me, and certainly not up to men in Washington, to decide.

    This is where it comes down to for me. Not my shoes to walk in and it’s not my business or anyone else’s. I’ve made my choices, which include dropping out of college to get married and raise my baby, no one has a right to take that choice away from me. That, to me, is the true meaning of pro-choice. A woman has the right to chose whether to end a pregnancy or whether to carry it to term. That’s why the Palin haters who attack her for carrying her youngest child to term really really pi$$ me off.

  208. myiq — {swoon}– you are really making me crazy now!!!

  209. afrocity, maybe they think if they ignore PUMA we will just disappear?

  210. I have already said I don’t care who has an abortion.

    I care that people go on ad nauseum about their choice to have one. How about going on ad nauseum about taking personal responsibilty to not get yourself into the position of needing one outside of rape or incest or health of Mother or less than perfect child?

    I find excuses outside of that irresponsible and “birth control”!

    I can’t be more clear about it. So, I’m bugging out on the issue.

  211. I said this in the last thread:

    If you think abortion is wrong, don’t have one.

  212. angie, don’t get me wrong, that is exactly my point. and I think that if people are taught early on the consequences of their actions, and how to avoid them and still have a good time 🙂 unwanted pregancies would decline. I lived in spain for three years, and unwanted pregnancy is a rarity, as is abortion. abortion was only leglized there in the 80’s I believe. But strong sex ed programs for adolescents and readily available, and in many cases free condoms and birth control pills have made accidental pregnancies almost unheard of Spain also aggresively targeted sexually active people (as well as IV drug users) the use of condoms during the height of the AIDS epidemic and managed to come through with relatively low infection rates when compared to even other european countries..

  213. Angie:

    That’s the Cosmo

  214. Seriously? You haven’t seen The Sponge episode? That’s one of the classics.

  215. I’ve said many times, when we outlaw war and outlaw capital punishment and outlaw killing in self-defense ONLY THEN can we start talking about outlawing abortion. Until then, go away and work on those first three.

  216. afrocity
    All the liberal Republicans are going for Obama, basically he traded them for us. Maybe that’s why the Clinton hate came naturally.

  217. One of the problems in America is our puritan background. Sex, like drinking, is not dealt with in a healthy manner. And it leads to not only unplanned pregnancies but the spreading of STDs.

  218. gxm — I couldn’t agree more.

    A woman has the right to chose whether to end a pregnancy or whether to carry it to term. That’s why the Palin haters who attack her for carrying her youngest child to term really really pi$$ me off.

    Choosing to have a child is a valid choice that belongs to the woman. In NOLA (heavily Catholic) growing up, there was a bumper sticker on a lot of cars that read: “Your Mama was Pro-Life, Dahlin'” and it pi$$ed my mother (who choose to get married & have kids instead of going to college) off to no end. She would always say “No, I’m a mother, I’ve never had an abortion, I’ve had 2 children & I CHOOSE to have them.” And she was right, dammit. My mistake was that I thought it was only people on the right who were so narrowed minded. This election & the slamming of Palin shows me that there are plenty of people on the left who think that choosing to keep the child is NOT a valid choice. WTF? Could there be some truth in the right’s meme that pro-choicers are really pro-abortion? NO I refuse to believe that, but I cannot deny that those a$$holes on the left are giving us pro-choicers a bad name — and I’m not standing for it.

  219. My daily paper has been running a series with voters who have chosen their candidate and the reasons why.

    The latest one stood out: she is 35 years of age, has never worked a day in her life, has 4 children ages 18, 16, 10 and 5. Two are in learning disabilities class, has been on welfare for 18 years, is herself disabled with diabetes, has been a recipient of WIC, Section 8 Housing, SSI, food stamps and Headstart. Her yearly income is $20,000. Oh, and her 4 children have been fathered by 3 different men who are not a part of the picture.

    She is voting for Guess Who because he has so many wonderful ideas and knows he will unite us as a country and also – wait for it – he will be able to get her a new house!!!!!!!!

    When we discuss accountability and responsibility we need to recognize that these people are out there. While she is out there touting for Obama, we are all paying her bills.

  220. Why would liberal Republicans vote for Obama? McCain is a moderate. That doesn’t make sense.

  221. SOOOO, did bill clinton make a cameo on the obamaramapalooza infomercial this evening? I was busy carving scary clowns into pumpkins, reviewing documents and helping with homework. rats, I missed it 🙂

  222. OT


  223. ainnj: It does not appear that many of us watched it. I have no idea what he said nor do I much care. I hope to see and hear the last of him come next week.

  224. GQM:

    I said that “sponge-worthy” WASN’T one of the few I haven’t seen.

  225. Juan Williams has drunk the Kool Aid. I used to like him. Now I can predict what he’ll say before he opens his mouth. Another Obama apologist.

  226. I want to thank madamab for the previous thread. the post and comments helped me to understand the other side of this issue for me.

    imo, the best thing is open, moderated discussion to come up with a compromise. The far left will hate it, and all who compromise. The far right will hate it, and all who compromise. But the 60% in the middle will say “I can live with that.” Make the compromise a clearly stated Amendment. This will take Women’s reproductive rights OUT of the political arena and back into personal rights, where it should be.

    another issue is GLBT rights. again, compromise. again, Amendment.

    Both of these issues are about citizens rights, not about how to run the country. Every four years, everyone’s lives go into shock because of the uncertainty of the next administration.

    we need to “settle” these things, lock them into the constitution, and move on, imo.


  227. Yep – Juan drank the Kool Aid. He hasn’t been credible since Hillary left the scene.

  228. My co-worker (one of the partners) asked me tonight if I was going to watch the Obamaganda commericial. I just laughed. And then quickly changed the subject. Wonder if I gave myself away.

  229. myiq — you mean the “kavorka” (the lure of the animal)? 😉

  230. gxm17, I don’t know why a Repub would vote for Obama. But then again Obots wonder why I would vote for McCain being a Hillary Supporter.

    What is making me madder is the MSM calling McCain desperate for asking about the LA times tape. Anytime anyone wants anything from Obama he calls you a racist or desperate. Again he says that Ayers is just an acquaintance but here Ayers is at this dinner with his wife.

  231. Dude, I just listened to myself on NWW and I was not at my best, I’ll say. It was definitely exhilarating though.

  232. I think it is important to teach older kids safe sex habits, so as to keep them healthy. It is important to try to be there to advise and support them. It seems young envangelicals are supporting these ideas too which looks promising.The modern world does not always fit with the natural world, it gets complicated.

  233. On the way home I was thinking about a potential BO loss next week. It would, in one fell swoop, deal a blow to many foes:

    1. Obama & his campaign
    2. The media
    3. Obamabots
    4. Liberal “feminists”
    5. Polling companies

    It would be a beautiful thing.

  234. Go, Phillies!

    That’s from my roommate.

  235. ie: hypocritical, narrow-minded, mean-spirited liberal “feminists”

  236. That’s the word!

  237. Regency, you were fine! Thanks for being so brave. Did you hear what they said about you after?

  238. gxm — for the first time in my life I’m glad that I work with all Republicans — we laughed at work today about the knobs who would actually watch that infomercial — heck, I don’t watch the actual President of the USA’s State of the Union — why would I watch the “pretend president’s” State of the Union?

  239. PurpFinn: Just now actually. I heard it on replay. It was heartening most certainly.

  240. fif — I understood what you meant by “liberal” feminists. Trust — I’ve got my candle lit.

  241. did I miss the O-man show? Damn… maybe, it’ll be in reruns… any good news?, PUMAs…. the MSM continues to fawn over itself…. thank goodness for blogs like this. It helps keep one sane…

  242. Regency: Do you have a link? I missed it.

  243. Regency!! A little self esteem please! You were great! It was nice to hear your voice.

  244. Poor Juan — still thinks there are people out there who haven’t heard of BO & that “wrapping himself in the flag” will be enough for those who might not have heard of him to actually vote for him over the guy they have heard of.

  245. The commentor on FOX said BO’s infomercial was his stump speech with illustrations. It was nothing new, but had “high production values” intended to reassure people. It was walking the line between him in the Oval Office and not being presumptuous about it, and that was his purpose.

    Juan: That was his closing argument. He wrapped himself in the flag, and shares values with average Americans, he’s a patriot.

    Blech. Glad I didn’t go anywhere near it.

  246. THE FRENCH KNOW CLOTHES .. and they know an empty suit when they see one

    Sarkozy Blasts Obama on Iran

    Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:48 AM

    By: David A. Patten

    Denouncing Barack Obama’s Iran policies as “utterly immature” and “empty of all content,” French President Nicolas Sarkozy dropped an international diplomatic and political bombshell Tuesday.

    News of Sarkozy’s outburst, which reportedly occurred behind closed doors during a French forum on foreign policy, was leaked to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz by a senior Israeli government source.

    Sarkozy has led a coalition of six nations that has imposed sanctions against Iran’s nuclear ambitions.

    That bloc consists of the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council — France, the United States, China, Russia, and the United Kingdom — plus Germany.

    To deter Iran’s nuclear ambitions, Sarkozy maintains the group must present a united diplomatic front to Iran.

    During his July tour of Europe, Obama met with Sarkozy in Paris. Sarkozy told Obama that it would be “very problematic” if the United States were to soften its policy toward Iran, Haaretz reports.

    Gee I guess Sarkozy is a “r@cist” ???

  247. I never considered myself a PUMA. I can not claim the title, I decided to leave the party. No more Dem. No more Rep. Just me. But the great thing about this- movement- is that no one is alone. Ever. It’s about more than party… It’s about us and the country. That being said…

    I have a crazy prediction.

    Rep turnout for Obama: 3%
    Dem turnout for McCain: 10%-20%
    Dem turnout for anybody else 10%-15%

    Either way, you take away 20% and strip the base Obama is screwed.

    It’s called the silent majority. Do they know it? I think they do which is why they are trying to go out on a bang. Someone said they put him up in yet another stadium. It’s getting pathetic.

    (Now: rewatching palin’s acceptance speech and the greek columns thing is still hilarious. The delivery is perfect. “He can’t stand UP to John McCain”. Heeheehee. Ah Reid is hilarious.)

  248. Swannie — wonder how much play that story will get here in the USA? yeah, none.

  249. “shares values with average Americans, ”

    unless you own a plumbing business… or a kitchen business… or a…

  250. Excellent post myiq – love history – especially PUMA. I got here because of RD – Goldberry. Came via six years at the orange snake pit of hate – TL – TM and a host of others. RD hooked me the night KO showed his gignormous arse regarding passport “gate” for the BZero. That seems years ago – eons. What little sanity I have comes from this site, Heidi Li and a few others. The constant barrage of hate toward Hillary by the media, D party “leaders” was enraging for me. The RBC meeting in living color on tape showed me they truly were as corrupt, shortsighted and ignorant as I saw them. It was Gary and Mawm and several others input that made sense to me – PUMA indeed. I just wish we could physically present ourselves enmass to a select group of D ‘leaders” with some facts and how we really feel – I made many calls, wrote many letters, emails – no one heard/read them. I changed my party affiliation and most likely – will never go back unless they rid themselves of the vermin it is infested with now.

    If PUMA did not exist, if this blog were not here, I would still have my opinons and principles but it sure would be lonely. There is such a diverse group here. So many people I feel I know, admire and learn from; also some I disagree with slightly. The media must be dealt with – it must be turned off until they get some truth and integrity – you know, be journalists like we deserve. Bu$h was a nightmare for me from day one – but this time it is/was my party foisting a cipher. We are now further over the edge of being a Third World Country. The media uses gossip, biased opinon – just pure crap – who’s going to call them out? Someone above used the statement – that’s inconsistent logic – indeed. Think of the people who do not have the time, or do not have a computer or are just not that interested in politics – got to reach them. I do not think any other country in the world has as great a people as our country does – we are truly a wonderous “bunch” – diverse, curious, giving on the whole, not all, but the greater majority. I shall stop – I love my country – it’s people – proud heritage and history. It’s sad that my life long party is trying to destroy it.

  251. Juan Williams just said there were still some undecided voters who didn’t know who Barack Obama is and they would tune in to that and see him as presidential.

    Who, that is living and breathing on the planet, does not know who this Self-Promotional Maniac is?! My God, his stupid face is everywhere.

  252. S4Hill: I have self-esteem; I also have a knack for perfectionism.

    Pat: I don’t know if there’s a copy up yet. Mine started playing immediately after the show ended.

  253. I found this site after being driven out of the Hillary for President group on Facebook. As more and more Hillary supporters drank the kool-aid, and more and more Obama trolls infiltrated without being kicked out (the main moderator drank the kool-aid, too), there was just no point in sticking around and arguing. Nobody was listening. I’m not even sure how I stumbled on this site. Perhaps someone posted a link on the PUMA Facebook group. But now this and Heidi Li’s blogs are my must-reads every day, several times a day. You guys and gals keep me sane! I think if Obama wins we’ll need this blog more than ever to keep ourselves off the ledges!

  254. LOL, Angie. I don’t watch the real President either. And I’m so sick of the fake one that I don’t know what I’ll do if he manages to win.

    No matter what the polls are saying, I still have a gut feeling that McCain is going to win this. One of my obot co-workers even admitted to me that he was worried that McCain might pull it off. So even (some) obots know that it’s not a given, regardless of the media haka.

  255. fif – maybe some people have been buried underground (those that are still alive as we know he already had the “living impaired” vote) and those in a perpetual coma might not have heard of him.


  256. It would be hard to tell, but can you see KO trying to report that?? he would choke on his own spit!

  257. I just made my annual migration from the moutains to the desert going from snow on the slopes to a really hot spell gripping the sands. I wasn’t able to get my wireless system in the desert to start-up yesterday and had the cable guy come out today. He finally arrived about 5:00 pm (pst). He very quietly turned on my power strip and the lights flashed and the phone system popped on. DUH. I am going to have to do something about my memory bank—it definitely needs a Bernanke level infusion.

    Actually it fit in well with my plans to just try and hide from all communication. I am wondering if I keep everything turned off how long it will take until I find out who won the election.

    Pat: Just read your 21st century welfare queen story. Amazing. Welfare reform was one of the greatest gifts that Bill Clinton gave to the Democratic party—that and working for a balance budget/even a budget surplus. Republicans have beaten Dems over and over again because of those two items. I hope McCain gets some juice out of that. He needs everything he can squeeze out of everything. Obama’s call for everyone to take off work next Tuesday and help him make history fits right in with that narrative—lets all forget work and just go have some fun with the one. We can always work sometime after the election—and don’t worry about the business, they can just eat it.

  258. Brad in CA,

    I’m just checking in and haven’t read all the interesting comments on my way down. I listened to McCain on Larry King, and Larry played a few clips in a later segment. Now listening to Greta/FOX, as Will Bower is supposed to be on. Their commentators debriefed O’s ad as well. They loved it. Great production, they said.

    All I can say, and of course I’m not biased, is “EEEWWW, EWW, EEEWWWW.” That was like looking at or listening to any guy my parents would approve of in high school with corny music in the background. It was ssssooooo sappy! Will America get that??? I wonder how the Kool-Aid crew reacted? If anybody made something equivalent, they’d be “ewwwing too.” 🙂

  259. I love to see how Palin includes her kids. I think it is good. I find the photo of her with the baby cradle in her office very powerful. I find the ideas that limit women oppressive. Women can choose to stay home, go to work, forgive their husband if he wanders or divorce if she is unhappy. We can choose to stand behind our man or up to him, this to me is feminism.

  260. Juan sounded like a fool when he said Barack Obama was a patriot. It reminds me of Michael Corleone’s courtroom scene in the Godfather Part II when they said he is a true American.

    I am beside myself tonight. This has happened to me twice when a presidential election has broken my heart.

    I can’t take 4 years of this. I am thinking about moving and I am serious.

  261. Who, that is living and breathing on the planet, does not know who this Self-Promotional Maniac is?! My God, his stupid face is everywhere.

    They are the ones who have been under the bus so long they forgot how and why they got there. Those fumes can be pretty overwhelming.

  262. News”weak” knob saying BO felt “so bad” when he opted out of public financing & if he didn’t he would be guilty of “malpractice” — Jeez louise — there is no “malpractice” for politicians.

  263. afrocity: it’s not over yet. We do not know what is going to happen on Tuesday. No one does.

  264. No malpractice, corruption

  265. afrocity — don’t despair — Greece is on the table — believe me, a few days lying on the beach there, and this whole election will be a hazy memory.

  266. angie: did he feel bad when he flip-flopped on every other issue too, and lied every time he opened his mouth?

  267. my letter was sent….to bill and hill hope they take heart

  268. Lady Boomer,

    As fars as the kool ais crows reaction:

    There was one collective orgasm at 9:00 pm

  269. I tried watching Greta tonight but they kept showing backtrack.
    I am in too good a mood to let backtrack bring me down.




  270. fif — like a true criminal (or 3 year old), he is never sorry for doing the bad act, but he is awfully sorry for being caught. Unfortunately, BO has been allowed to get away with every single bad act he’s ever done. So, no, he isn’t sorry for a dang thing.

  271. * kool aid crowd

  272. good letter fuzzy – but they sold out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  273. well i left kos last year never to return. i left talk left before the primaries ended when the possibility of open discussion ended. it was sort of a hold out and there were some good discussions there for awhile.

    i visit here, and no quarter on a regular basis. i sometimes visit the sites that are recommended. i no longer watch cnn, msnbc. i watch cnbc and fox. oh well! as for tonight? i’d rather drink motor oil than watch obama.

  274. Pat: lol!

    I heard today on the radio that the PA whistleblower revealed that ACORN had a back-up plan for their complete lack of quality control called, “under the bus.” If they were asked to provide accountability for registrations, they were instructed to blame it on the low-tier $8/hr. employees, and then fire them.

  275. Juan was also stupid when he admitted that the ratings for the infomercial would be “low” but argued that it was still a great idea and a good use of money!

  276. Yeah, just like BO felt bad that he didn’t go to his mother’s side on her deathbed. Is he going to feel “so bad” when he totally screws this country up? This is a man with absolutely NO FORESIGHT. How on earth can anyone believe he’ll be anything other than a terrible President?

  277. I am just hoping that the rest of the country is as maxed out with Obama as I am. Daily saturation and constant does of adulation have left me limp with Obama fatigue. Enough already. Like listening to a barrage of Christmas songs starting from the first of November. By the time December 25th rolls around I am ready to chuck the whole thing out the window.

  278. hello all the Haka from the MSM is cracking…they are finally admitting McCain Palin are surging….but they say its not all good news….of course

    but the MSM Hake dance is breaking….

  279. Gosh, if Obama wins…I suppose if we survived 8 years of Bush we’ll survive him. But I’m convinced he’ll be a terrible President and it will be fun to see his supporters shrug and say: “What happened? Dude! Who are we waiting for now?”

  280. angie: so nice of the News”weak” reporter to justify it all for him, and help us to feel sorry for poor, pure Bawack.

  281. I am crying. I just got called a sell out again, a cjunt. That I am not black. I am so sick of this. My dad is dead and I don’t know what he will think of me. I look at Obama and I see nothing but a rat and then everyone is saying to me that I am crazy. That ad Obama just did about Palin was awful. I am so tired guys. I am sorry. I am tired. I have been called names, been threatend. Not to mention the raking over I will get if this DICK messiah wins. It is Bush 2000 all over again but this time the enemy is one of my own.

  282. I missed the dialogue about riots on “RACE DAY”. One of the things I have been thinking about and wondering if any of you have such thoughts—-what if Nov 4 it becomes crystal clear that The One has won by cheating big time in the swing states? What if there is evidence that O operatives pulled significant voter fraud in enough swing states? What do you think people would do? What if it went to the House for resolution and the Dem. majority gave it to him despite significant evidence that he did not win?

  283. fif, Hey, we took some pictures in DC of a bunch of us under the bus! Anybody got one of those? What a great time to re-post one.

  284. juan actually thinks people haven’t already made up their minds and need to see bo do his spiel? naw! we know who bo is very well. undecided voters is a joke. they aren’t saying to the pollsters. heck, the pollsters don’t want to know. it is more profitable to fudge. they (the undecided) know who they are voting for and it isn’t obama.

  285. afrocity, we did our best, now the voters decide, it is democracy. We are lucky. If Obama wins and takes all his radical ideas and friends to Washington it will because the people wanted him to. We will live our lives and hope he does not hurt anyone. Who knows, he may even be okay. I just really hope Mac is Back.

  286. STFU Pat – some of us still have all of our Christmas trees up. Ryan wanted to know where Santa and his gifts were last weekend. He particularly enjoyed sleeping on his Christmas sheets that have been on his bed for 11 months.

    Oh well. I’ve been busy!

  287. i don’t see that BO’s Palin ad is that great — so what, McCain said in 2005 that “he wasn’t as versed in the economy as he was in foreign affairs” and that he “might” have to rely on a VP for economic issue. So what? Look at BO’s pick — he didn’t pick the person who got 18 million votes in the primary & who knows hella more on the economy then he does –instead he picked Biden (D-MBNA) & who is a gaffe a minute machine. McCain needs to run the “What will Joe say next” ad again. Someone with Biden as his VP shouldn’t be knocking the choice of the other guy — just sayin’.

  288. A good use of money???? Over indulgent, market saturating propaganda is a good use of millions of dollars? And these same idiots attack Palin’s tiny (by comparison) wardrobe cost?

  289. Re the disgusting effigy of Obama found on UK campus, I have no idea whether this is the result of a raci*st jerk, a misguided Halloween prank, or an angry individual. UK works very hard to increase minority participation among faculty, staff, and students, and an overwhelming majority of Kentuckians will thoroughly reject this act.

    Could I also say that the race-baiting and class warfare of the media and Obama campaign have made this virtually inevitable. Except for being a hick [born poor and up a holler], I in no way fit the stereotype Appalacians have been portrayed this season. Indeed, my family would perfectly fit the Obot stereotype. But, I sat in rage day after day while anchors, pundits, and celebrities snickered at how dumb, how rac*st, poor, how insignificant, and pathetic we were just because we supported Hillary. People in Germany, England, France, Arab nations, you name it, all did everything possible to humilate us, just because of voting Hillary.

    Jon Stewart found some unfortunate backwoods person and encouraged millions to laugh at the typical hillbilly. Ignoring the videos of Obama and Black Liberation Theology, everyone somberly said hillbillies were looking at race as a factor.

    I don’t excuse this action or justify it, but what the hell did they think would happen? I’m retired, reasonably well educated, and middle class affluent, and I wanted to choke these people on my tv or toss it out the window after listening to constant scorn. It’s easy for me to imagine the humilation of a 19 year old.

    Oh, BTW, the last clearly racial incident in the state that I recall was the western Kentucky murder of two young white men in a truck shot by a group of porch-sitting young black men who were angry that the truck was driving by and had a Confederate flag on it.

  290. Jangles, You mean like they did with, um, Hillary? I’d say that would be likely, no matter what shows up for the more-teflon-than-the-teflon-Pres.

  291. angie: so nice of the News”weak” reporter to justify it all for him, and help us to feel sorry for poor, pure Bawack.

    Lady B: I remember that picture.

    Carly Fiorina just slammed BO’s infomercial. She said it was “incredible,” and then said, “I don’t mean that in a good way. It was as slick and smooth as any Hollywood production.” Didn’t Oprah help produce it?

  292. afrocity, breathe. No decisions for two weeks. I wanted to move after Bush in 2000. A couple in Florida moved to France. They said that was the end of democracy here. I respected that choice (envied too). And I will respect yours. First we’ve got to make it to next Wednesday with our health intact.

  293. afrocity: He is one of our own as well. We do not judge him by the color of his skin but on the content of his character and all the baggage he drags along with him.

    I cannot imagine what it must be like to walk in your shoes right now but do not separate us from yourself by claiming he is one of yours because he is black. He is one of ours too.

    It is just that he does not measure up that makes us reject him.

  294. Lady Boomer,

    Thank you for the update… I was driving.. turned on an all news station.. they gave a blurb of it then shifted to the O-man on the stump…. brief hearing of MC with the innuendo of MC talking to security advisers to turn attention away for the economy…

    First, BO was going to win on the war, now he’s going to win on the economy…


    BUT… NO WAY, NO HOW, NO BO, BACK TO THE HILL O-MAN… let him put his styrofoam columns in his senate office wear a laurel wreath and a toga as he finishes out his senate term… then bye, bye, bo…

    PUMAs… IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN…. NO BO… NOT THIS TIME… NOT EVER… sorry for shouting but people can get despondent with the constant mind control bombardment…

    at least we have each other…

    Best case scenario — the people win and we get to work on our country… Hillary is back in the swing, better prepared than ever for ’12.

    Worst case scenario — the O-man is anointed, has his hollywood production companies showing exploits of ‘the great one’.. and I turn off the TV, tune out of the USA for four years and get some work done….

    Keep the faith, pumas

  295. I removed MSNBC and CNN from my list of favorite channels on the DVR box, so I don’t even stop there when I flip. My cable is permanently tuned to the Game Show Network. I love me some “Match Game!” (“Try not to have a rally,” as Charles Nelson Reilly used to say.)

    And recently I removed the NYTimes web-site from my home page.

  296. afrocity i am so sorry , you are so undeserving of this.. we all are !!! it is so difficult to shield oneself from abuse !!!
    I wish there was some way I could help you !!! if you want to call any time please feel free …email me swannieATcygnusradio.com

  297. Angie said: I don’t watch the actual President of the USA’s State of the Union…….

    gee, I’m trying to remember when we last had an actual president. seems like last century.

    myiq, thanks for the history lesson. I was here at the birthing and remember it well. I’m very grateful for this place and for all of you.

  298. afrocity — when someone actually says to you that “you aren’t black’ you should laugh in their faces — BO is the one who isn’t “black” — he can’t tell the difference between Redd Foxx and Sherman Helmsley for crying out loud.

  299. afrocity, please don’t feel bad. you speak to all of us and remind of us of the strong aa women who are part of the real backbone of this country. i enjoy your comments and respect your thoughts.

  300. afrocity

    Youu are not the only black person not voting for Obama. There’s me and like two other people… No I’m joking.

    And as far as your dad goes, you are the one you have to live with. If you honestly in your conscience can not vote for him. Don’t. I can’t believe any father would want their daughter to betray their conscience.

    Integrity. You have to live by it.

  301. kiki — like it or not, Bush was actually sworn in. BO hasn’t been sworn in to my knowledge. That said, I didn’t watch Clinton’s SofUs either.

  302. fif — You DO?!!! Were you in the pic? Oh, we must have met! I don’t have a clue as to who most people are based on handles!

  303. New Rasmussen Poll for the first time declares “more people trust McCain on the Economy than BO”!

    I actually posted this earlier.

    It comes out in the morning. O’Reilly announced it.

  304. Will’s ON FOX Now!

  305. Will on Greta.

  306. Afrocity,

    we’re all holding you in a big group hug… he is NOT one of your own… Hell, he’s just as much one of us as any of ours… and we have chosen to disassociate from him… and why?… because we don’t like him… we don’t like the way he plays rough… we don’t like the lies… we don’t like the waffling… we don’t like the corruption…

    This is an ugly election, scarring the nation’s psyche…

    BUT we don’t have to get ugly, we can’t get corrupt and we have got to hold the faith… the faith in the universal good and believe, truly believe, that right action will win out…

    GROUP HUG, everybody

  307. Someone posted earlier that the recent Rasmussen poll shows that MORE people now trust McCain on taxes and the economy. That is a huge indicator, given the importance of the economy right now. I think Obama’s ad is too late. Joe the Plumber trumps it all. That issue has resonated for two weeks, and is extremely recognizable to the average voter. Sorry Sir Barks-a-lot.

  308. The wink is on bo .. Palin’s state is one of the few solvent states with a surplus in the billions in the entire USA LOLOLOLOL

  309. WILL IS ON FOX!

  310. You know, Bush is a divisive President, but he was not a divisive nominee (first time around). Obama has split this country as a nominee!

  311. afrocity
    We all are just being true to ourselves. We are doing what we believe is best for our nation even at the cost of our own interests. When people call you names it is a reflection of them, not of you. This is difficult for all of us. There is nothing that would make me feel happier than having a AA President. I am just appalled with Obamas whole thing. It is a very difficult time for many now, Pumas, Democrats and Republicans. We must be strong.

  312. IMO, when it’s deemed acceptable to hang Palin in effigy then it must logically be deemed acceptable to hang Obama in effigy. Either they are both protected by free speech or they are both hate crimes. There is no way to justify one and not the other, unless you somehow believe that women’s lives are not as valuable as men’s.

  313. P.U.M.A. ALERT ON FOX!!

  314. My plan is to vote early on Tuesday. The polling place is at the end of my street and is manned every time by the same people every election. These people are old. I mean, o.l.d. and I do not think there will be any provocations by Obama supporters there that day.

    But if so, they will have no problem since most of these people I believe have been around since we electricity made it easier to see in the dark. I honestly believe the only reason I vote every two years is to see if any of them are still alive.

    I know, I am very, very shallow.

  315. Will is on.

  316. Afrocity– they’re just thugs being thugs when they call you names like that. Only horrible people act in this way, so they’re only revealing how disgusting they are. This is how they act when people get in their way, and you’re in their way. Don’t let the bastards win.

  317. I’m really going out on a limb here by admitting this BUT as much as I don’t like Bush, and as bad as I think his administration has been, I’m beginning to believe that the “Republicans are the devil” meme was started/ramped up by the Deaniacs, kos, et al since 2004 just to get the country primed to vote in any D in 2008 (or 2012 if Kerry had won) just so they could do to Hillary what they did to her during the primary. Seriously, I know this is tinfoily but I do think this was planned to stop Hillary’s run (which they knew was coming in either 2008 or 2012). Why else did a guy who had not yet won the ILL. US Senate seat get to deliver that keynote speech at the 2004 convention?

  318. I am just sick with frustration, rage, and concern for my fellow Appalachians tossed out like stinking garbage just to get this empty suit a**hole elected. I am not fit for company. See you all tomorrow maybe.

  319. afrocity, hang in there. What you are going through is horrible and inexcusable. But hang tight. We’re here for you!

  320. Actually guys I meant by one of my own= was Obama being a democrat as i was. I really don’t see Obama as an AA, and I have said that before. he is not the descendant of slaves and culturally I don’t identify with him. So the AA factor for me is false when it concerns BO. Other blacks don’t feel as I do. I am upset that he will be considered the first AA president should he win. This election is driven by race, in my mind there is no doubt about it.

    The thing is his elecetion to POTUS is not going to magically help or uplift blacks. It will for maybe a year . Then watch as they become increasingly upset with him and soon he will be called a sell out too. In fact it is already happening. Obama’s identity is not rooted in the AA community— not even in Chicago. Valerie Jarret is Iranian but they say she is AA. You have Rezko, Ayers, Stodger–all people who USE Blacks, they are slum lords etc. This is what Jesse Jackson meant by Obama talking down to blacks. But blacks threw Jesse under the bus and said he was jealous of BO. Believe me MLK would be there under the bus too if he were alive.

  321. Okay, this AP (I know, I know) analysis of Obama’s prime-time special will not make Obama happy:


  322. Nite all!

  323. fif — You DO?!!! Were you in the pic? Oh, we must have met! I don’t have a clue as to who most people are based on handles!

    No silly. I meant I remember when someone posted it! Didn’t you? If not, I am confusing it with a cartoon picture someone posted of people under the bus. lol. 🙂

  324. It’s been all about race.

  325. angie: We loathed the Repubs because they marched in step with President Dimwit and never criticized one damn thing he did. The surprise of this election is that we now reserve much of our disgust at those who do the same with Obama.

    Neither side is very pretty nor are their hands clean. It is just that we have arrived at an awakening this year and discovered that our own are as equally corrupt.

    And as long as those who know better continue to bleat the praises of this moron, they can stay out in the wilderness for all I care.

  326. Afrocity: I enjoy many of the comments you make. Sorry that you get flamed by so many of your inner circle. I can’t imagine what that must be like. I have one of those stfu stances that just seems to ignite when any family, friend or Obot raises an eyelash and they go running for cover. I don’t know how you get that body armor (or even in the long run if it’s a good thing to have). But I wish I could send some of mine to you so you would not have to put up with any of that trashing. Take up voodoo or witchcraft, maybe both. There must be a potion in the coven for Obot derailing. This is the season to get the goods on this sort of thing.

  327. Nite Nite

  328. Jangles — I’m not sure if you’re still here, but to clarify, my comment was addressed to your:

    Jangles, on October 29th, 2008 at 10:36 pm Said:

    “What if [Obama won by fraud and] it went to the House for resolution and the Dem. majority gave it to him despite significant evidence that he did not win?”

    Yikes, doesn’t that sound like May 31 re: Hillary, and also Alice Palmer? Yeesh.

  329. Nite gxm!

  330. nite Carol

  331. Wow! A lot of folks here tonight. Always good to see.

    I’m a lurker mostly – I’m here at least five times a day, but a lot of the time I can’t keep up with the comment threads.

    Anyway, earlier this week I wrote in Hillary during my state’s early vote, voted Green Party for U.S. Senate and did vote for one Dem, a guy running for state House.

    Formerly a yellow dog, now an Independent.

    I found Confluence after reading about it on TalkLeft, where I migrated after I left DKos in 2006 (after being insulted by a whoooole bunch of people who were holier and more liberal than thou, apparently. Long story.)

    Anyway, this is where I get 99% of my political news and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Thanks for being you, everybody.

    E.A. in Tennessee

  332. Thanks for the Group Hug.

    Obama is the Milli Vanilli of AA’s

    lip syncing bull shit

  333. nite gxm

  334. Parentofed, I’m with you. At least Lunsford is looking good. That’s some cause for joy.

  335. parentofed — feel better — don’t let the bastards get you down!

    night Carol.

  336. “So whether you are Suzy the student, or Nancy the nurse, or Tina the teacher, or Carl the construction worker, if my opponent is elected, you will be worse off four years from now than you are today,” Obama said

    He really has that people’s touch, doesn’t he?

  337. nite gxm

  338. afrocity: I am so sorry that you are having a hard time.

    I would like to point out that you win either way:

    If McCain wins, you were picking the right horse and if obama wins (cheats), you get 4 years of telling them, “Don’t whine at me, I didn’t vote for the fool!”.

  339. Seriously — LOVE the alliteration — so smooth {rolls eyes}

  340. swanspirit
    Illinois is not doing so great, if Obama wins maybe we can move to Alaska.

  341. Yesterday I received a money request from NARAL. I wrote on the pay stub that their endorsement of Obama during the primaries and their stabbing of Hillary Clinton in the back disqualified them from the list of any charities I patronize. And sent it back – making them pay for postage.

  342. afrocity — see, anyone who can come up with sh!t like “Obama is the Milli Vanilli of AA’s” should never, ever feel dispirited. LMAO!

  343. angienc, 🙂

  344. DYB — when did the AP start doing its job & calling BO out on his bs? The polls must be looking really bad for BO.

  345. For some reason, everytime I post I end up at the top of the thread. Any ideas why that is happening?

  346. We are united by a common thread here on this blog. But the voices are diverse. White, black, Latino, Asian, American Indian, women, men, gay, straight, old, young, educated, not so much, married, divorced, widowed, single, we are all here.

    We come from all 4 corners of the country along with some from outside the US. If nothing else, we remain courteous and civil to one another for the most part which only illustrates that yes, it is possible to have unity without going to war.

    We’ve been up, down, trying to get the feeling again but more often then not, we do. Whatever happens, we have found each other. That in itself is a small miracle.

  347. well all bed time love and sweet dreams


    we are the light in the darkness
    Hillary is our lamp in the wood
    where ever two lights travel
    the illumination shall bring only good

    Hilary shines for us she is the one who reminds me to be my best self
    She calls on us to be the hand that helps our brothersand sisters up so they can shear in the dream that is america
    She calls us to be the voice for those who have none
    She calls us to be the people we know we are capable of being
    Hillary shines of me and reminds me to be my best self
    to be the agent the oil pressed that allows everyone to live up to their godgiven potential!
    yes our Hillary shines

  348. Am I last??? LOL. Wouldn’t be the first time.

    I was brand new to blogging earlier this year – became a huge Hillary supporter and, like a fool, spent several months duking it out on Salon (what a cesspool), where it was an unusual day if I didn’t get a r@cist at least five time, told I was a c*unt, b!tch, and worse. I also spent time posting on TM and was a lurker at TL. Then…along came May 31 and I was so damned mad I was literally screaming (I’d already done my crying earlier in the year). I heard about PUMAdom on one site or another (TM?), checked it out, lurked for the longest time, left Salon in disgust, gave up on TM when the eponymous host started slurping the kool aid, became completely disillusioned with TL after Jeralyn had her convention conversion experience, and finally worked up enough steam to start posting here.

    This is home and I love it. Don’t know what I’d do without y’all now.

  349. Thanks PJ – now THAT song is stuck in my head.

  350. afrocity, I’m so sorry. Don’t beat yourself up, just do whatever you have to do to get through this.

  351. night my sweet fuzzy bear!

  352. Pat — So beautifully said! Nite, all!

  353. angienc, on October 29th, 2008 at 10:48 pm Said:
    I’m really going out on a limb here by admitting this BUT as much as I don’t like Bush, and as bad as I think his administration has been, I’m beginning to believe that the “Republicans are the devil” meme was started/ramped up by the Deaniacs, kos, et al since 2004 just to get the country primed to vote in any D in 2008 (or 2012 if Kerry had won) just so they could do to Hillary what they did to her during the primary. Seriously, I know this is tinfoily but I do think this was planned to stop Hillary’s run (which they knew was coming in either 2008 or 2012). Why else did a guy who had not yet won the ILL. US Senate seat get to deliver that keynote speech at the 2004 convention?

    Well, I have always known that Bush is a terrible President, and I don’t agree with a lot of Republican Party ideas, but the fact that Bush was a Republican was a moot point. He is simply one of the worse presidents in the history of our country. The fact that he is a republican has nothing to do with it. Even Republicans don’t like him, for crying out loud.
    If there is anything I have learned, it’s that the Democratic Party is just as bad is the Republican Party. And both parties will bend themselves out of shape to destroy anyone that actually wants to change things for the better. Examples: Clintons, Mccains, Palins, ect.

  354. Has the public developed a new national pastime—praising Dimwits and forgiving their trespasses against us? Lo though they roam in the wilderness, how long can we survive their stupid and treacherous games of grandiosity.

  355. OMG — a reporter for the LA Times who covers BO actually wrote in an article today that “those of us who were sent to cover BO as a measure of a man can’t tell who he is or if he is ready because of the barriers set up between us and him” (paraphrasing). The polls are not telling the truth, y’all!! I’m cautiously optomistic.

  356. nite Lady B

  357. night LadyBoomer!

  358. The polls are a joke angie. Do not even pay attention to them or the MSM at all.

  359. I remember some whispers of “Republicans are the Devil” started in the 1980’s with the Moral Majority. Probably was around before that with the fine President Nixon…

  360. let’s forget the IF… it ain’t gonna happen… we gotta believe… this election is about a new silent majority — the people… NOT the media, NOT the $$$, NOT the misogynistic wink-winks, NOT the O-Man nor the Obots, NOT the attempts at brainwashing, NOT the secret of O-Man gets what he wants….

    This election is about you, me, people who are not making their voice known but will by casting their ballot against the O-Man… People who are taking back their country…

    Focus, pumas… remember the power animal — puma — strong, silent, focused…


    This one’s The Truman Show….

  361. Ever hear Obama mention MLK? King is under the bus.

  362. jjmtacoma: I had a Barry cd on earlier today and it is stuck in my head too. I hate when that happens.

  363. Pat J — I agree — I think the Bush administration has been horrible & I have very good reason to not like it or the Republicans who marched in lock-step with him. What I’m talking about is the extreme “all Republicans are evil” meme is what I think has gotten out of hand.

  364. Yup, angie, it’s been clear from some time now that Barry has severely limited the press’s access to Himself. But the mother f’ing press have barely said a word about this. Some of them are clearly doing CYA at the last minute. Good luck with that.

  365. angienc, on October 29th, 2008 at 11:08 pm Said:
    Pat J — I agree — I think the Bush administration has been horrible & I have very good reason to not like it or the Republicans who marched in lock-step with him. What I’m talking about is the extreme “all Republicans are evil” meme is what I think has gotten out of hand.

    Well said angie.

  366. And if he should get elected they will have even less access. Anyone thinking otherwise has totally been immersed in the Kool Aid. The only time you will see his puss is for the annual Christmas card when we can all sit around and guess which one of the four pictured is our Commander in Chief.

    And if he does get in watch them disappear Helen Thomas. If there is one reporter left still clinging to integrity and grit it is Helen Thomas. You just know she won’t be welcome since she already has said he is totally unqualified.

  367. I’ve always liked Barry Manilow, my mom had a thing for him and we had a bunch of the 8-track tapes 😉

  368. SOD: Thanks, now that one has replaced the other. No escape.

  369. Who needs a press corp when you can buy your own variety 1/2 hour?

  370. For Immediate Release
    October 29, 2008 Contact: Press Office

    Statement on Former ACORN Affliliate Employee’s Testimony in Court Linking Obama Campaign Directly to ACORN Activity

    ARLINGTON, VA — Today, McCain-Palin 2008 campaign manager Rick Davis released the following statement in response to the testimony given by a former employee of an ACORN affiliate in a Pennsylvania court of law:

    “Today’s testimony by a former employee of an ACORN affiliate proves Barack Obama is guilty of lying to the American people about his relationship with ACORN. At the last presidential debate, in front of sixty million people, Barack Obama said his campaign was not involved’ with ACORN. We now know that Barack Obama’s campaign was working hand-in-glove with an organization reportedly under investigation by the F.B.I. and in more than a dozen states. In addition to funneling $832,000 to ACORN for get-out-the-vote efforts, the Obama campaign and ACORN have been sharing donor lists, encouraging maxed-out Obama donors to contribute to this unethical organization.”

    Yeah, like the media is going to report this.

  371. I’m embarrassed to admit that I still find Barry M’s tunes very danceable. Great for doing (modified) high kicks in the privacy of one’s own boudoir.

  372. I want to jump in on this republican versus democrat thing.

    This election has taught me a lot about my own party. I was a DEM mostly because it was instilled in my political fabric as a collective member of AAs. I recall the Mondale/Ferraro election and I did not care for Mondale. Then later I did not care for Dukakis and I wanted to know why was I always left with two crappy candidates. Clinton got me excited again, and while of was in college I was not a ClintonBOT–never like the Obots. I wonder why were all AA’s democrats and why belong to this party that really takes our vote for granted and gives us no power. yet teh DNC is the party of AA’s.

    A turning point came when I went to a Republican Luncheon. Laura Bush was there and she gave me an interview. Now mind you I was firmly a DEM, but I met a AA woman who took me aside and said she was accepted more as a GOP then she ever was as a DEM. I despised Bush but Angie is right now that I think of it, I despised BUSH and let that hate be an extension of my dislike for the GOP. I also despised Reagan. But when I look at the GOP closer I saw that they actually gave to charity a lot more and people who actually lived their beliefs –like Sarah Palin. I respect that.

  373. Petal. the eastern shore of md is ok for now … the people born and bred here have a slogan

    ” There is no life west of the Chesapeake Bay ”

    It can be very isolated here , which might be a good thing!

  374. Carol: This in itself should be enough to sink him. More than likely no one will touch this on the cable shows. Let’s see what Joe S says tomorrow. If silent, then you know where his heart lies. Bastards, the whole rotten bunch.

    Thanks, Bill Clinton. You had to have known.

  375. For Pat: I can’t smile without you…

  376. I wish some LA reporter would get into those tape files and dig out that Kahlidi party tape. I bet there are some others out there too showing more examples of The One’s duplicity.

  377. jjmtacoma: You are definitely not helping! I will have a running loop playing all night in my head.

    Think I will put on some Janis to clear this out.

  378. Anyone have a link to that LA Times writer’s article? This is coming on the heels of John King of CNN complaining about the media’s coverage of Obama? Hmm…this is getting curiouser and curiouser… I remember somebody writing in an op-ed – a long time ago – that the press would expect some sort of rewards for backing up Obama. That reward is access once he’s elected. And if that access didn’t arrive – they’d turn on him. We saw a very brief glimpse of this when Obamabot Andrea Mitchell complained that Obama’s tour of Europe was a farce because the media had no access to him while there. Now we’re seeing 2 other journalists, who were in the thicket of the worship without saying a word, coming out and complaining? Could these be early signs of a media back-flip? If it is, it’s coming a lot sooner than I expected (but too late, as well.)

  379. SOD, you forgot to use “smear”. Indispensible term for any O camp rebuttal.

  380. They could show Obama stealing Baby Jesus’s bottle while kicking the crap out of the lambs in the manger and the press would remark on his ability to be guided by a star. Hopeless.

  381. DYB, it’s all strictly advance CYA.

  382. Uh oh, Brit has a problem with Manilow, jjm. 😉

  383. I just saw this new ad ACORN has put out suggesting that John McCain is trying to prevent AA’s from voting. WTF? What does that have to do with their blatant corrupt methods? The victim card.

  384. Could it be that some in the press are recognizing the danger of this candidate and feel the need to come clean? Before they may have gotten themselves all up in a twist over “historic” but as some of this stuff is beginning to see the light of day they may be sending a clear signal of warning.

    Or maybe not. They are probably as sick to death of this asshole as I am.

  385. fif, that ACORN ad is blatant race baiting

  386. Kat5, I love this Family Guy scene about Barry Manilow

  387. Clinton talking about BO – makes me puke!

    Someone has put him in a trance!

  388. kiki: That is too funny!

  389. It is going to take a lot of time and distance for me to get over what Big Dawg is doing. It is just wrong. And please spare me the Good Democrat and Party Loyalty hoopla.

    No more excuses!

  390. Joe was on this afternoon with Mika. He was blatantly pissed about BO buying the election. He said it over and over. Mika couldn’t even retort. I think she is fed up with the BS.

    Got to go to sleep!

  391. Love that clip, kiki, thanks. It’s really funny because…..it’s true. Okay, all you secret Wayne Newton fans – your turn.

  392. myiq – you asked about the way forward. Here is what I want to see if Obama is elected.

    (1) Senator Stevens is re-elected even though he is a convicted felon. (2) In January he is defrocked by the senate. (3) The Governor of Alaska steps down and her Lt. Governor (who won his seat as her running mate) appoints Sarah Palin to Stevens U.S. senate seat. Or, Palin does not step down and instead remains Governor until she can run in the special election that will be held in 60-90 days to replace Stevens. (4) Either way -Sarah ends up in the Senate.

    Then, she forms a truly bi-party partnership w/ Hillary to address women issues, working /middle class economic issues, gay issues, special needs and children’s issues.

    I want these two strong women to take us forward together on issues that really matter by pushing the good ole boys club into the ditch. This will upset both the Repub and Dem party entrenched powers.

    I want Hil and Sarah to shake it up together – shake it all up.

    I have been voting for 42 years. I live in N.C. Today I voted a straight Republican ticket. Or as they used to say in Oklahoma – “I stamped the Eagle” (Note: If you vote straight Dem you stamp the Rooster). This is the first time in my life that I have ever voted for a Republican and I have even had several close Repub friends that ran for elective office that I did could not bring myself to vote for.

    Now I say – F them all.

    Lets get the party started.

  393. Pat – you are sometimes a little slow, but you always come around to what is right. There is no excuse for Bill and Hill doing this bs. They have 5 days to tell the truth and redeem themselves or forever burn in hell with the rest of them!


  394. lol lol lol

    is this actually an ad?

  395. The media has been so in *love* they collectively have not given legs to things that should have been researched and / or reported.

    Didn’t they used to try to out “exclusive” , “you saw it here first” eachother?

  396. I am so happy you did that, myiq! With so many lies about us out there, we need to keep the story clear.
    Personally, I liked Gravel the most. I was allowing that eventually I’d pick Obama because of that speech he was flaunting everywhere (anti-war). I started to doubt I would after that Iowa speech – first I heard and rubbed my brain the wrong way. As the media made their choice more and more obvious and the Bobots became more and more fascistic, I became a Hillary supporter. The arrogance, the lies, the stolen primaries made it clear to me I could never ever vote for this man.
    On June 1st I was adding to my Stumble Upon blog “The Puma Party is Born” entry from this blog
    and a month later I had my own attempt to put history right – with some great surprises in the comments section

  397. Statement on Former ACORN Affliliate Employee’s Testimony in Court Linking Obama Campaign Directly to ACORN Activity

    Carol, when I heard this report earlier today, I thought it would completely dominate the news tonight. It hasn’t even been on FOX. I don’t get it. This woman blows the lid off ACORN’s deliberate fraud, and Obama’s on-going relationship with the organization, contrary to his denials. Has it been reported anywhere? I heard the AP picked it up.

  398. jvsp: That article does not surprise me. The man has no real interest in anyone but himself.

  399. Little Isis
    I am no fan of Bush but it was mentioned at the RNC that Minority reading levels are the highest they have ever been. This is a generation that will benefit from this their whole life. Bush helped millions of Africans Aids drugs that are keeping them alive. Remember there is an epidemic of a generation of parents dying and leaving children dependant on grandparents or siblings. His security measures although not popular have kept us safe. The Iraq fiasco if it works may help birth of democracy to Iraq.
    I think it is easy to criticize and I have many criticizms, I don’t know. I prefer to look forward now anyway.

    I will vote for McCain, I like to think Hillary is the light representing yellow mixing with the red (Republican) making the Puma Orange. Just my own little color game.

  400. Seriously, I have a confession to make. I love Barry Manilow. A year or two ago, I watched his concert on public television and he was still great and so funny, didn’t look like he aged at all. I pretended I didn’t like him so I can give you a hard time. Where is the good, if I can’t tease you? 🙂

    Angie, you still here? Just so you know what Seriously is referring to, when you disappeared, Seriously started singing Barry Manilow songs in the hopes that it would coax you back. No joke.

  401. The MSM age of firsts and legs seems have gone the way of the grey goose, jj. BO’s butt is all the rage now.

  402. afrocity — you could say the same thing about women in general. the DNC takes women’s voters for granted (as shown this year by its treatment of women) and yet, the DNC is the party of women.
    I wonder why were all AA’s democrats and why belong to this party that really takes our vote for granted and gives us no power. yet teh DNC is the party of AA’s.

    “No self-respecting woman should work or wish for the success of a party that doesn’t respect her self” Susan B. Anthony.
    Replace the word “woman’ with AA & that statement is still true.

  403. Brit — sorry — I’m still here — had to walk the dogs so I was gone for a second. I’m catching up on thread now!

  404. Carol: You may want to reconsider “slow” and substitute with “caution”. I have to take my time before I reach a conclusion. Think of it as me “backing into a position”.

    This alone should be reason enough to sink his ship to nowhere. And shame on those who keep beating his drum. He is not worth it.

  405. fif, that ACORN ad is blatant race baiting

    I agree. It completely ignores the overwhelming evidence of ACORN’s corrupt practices. How is McCain’s pointing that out, and their relationship to the Obama Campaign an attempt by McCain to suppress minority votes?

    I know, I know–it’s not. They should be ashamed to even speak right now, with the FBI breathing down their back and people coming out of the woodwork to expose their deliberate fraud.

  406. I think Obama is what was locked away in Al Capone’s vault all these years. Geraldo said he couldn’t find anything but Obama is an expert at “hiding”.

  407. BO just totally fucked up his speech. His teleprompter must have quit running.

  408. He can’t help it. He’s done the bare minimum for Obama, but he’s the head of the party. If he doesn’t do anything at all, he’ll look bad and everyone will bitch and moan at him come Tuesday night.

  409. fif, on October 29th, 2008 at 11:22 pm Said:
    I just saw this new ad ACORN has put out suggesting that John McCain is trying to prevent AA’s from voting. WTF? What does that have to do with their blatant corrupt methods? The victim card.


    Whether we like it or not the best defense has always been a good offense. Strategy wise it’s not a bad idea – those b*astards.

  410. Fox tends to run a day behind I notice. Send it to Ureport@foxnews.com or Sean Hannity. Sean has used my stuff before.

  411. I am repeatedly shocked at the number of people on RD that want the Clinton’s to commit political suicide.

  412. The fact that he waited this long says a pretty big amount actually, but everyone will judge his and Hillary”s actions by their own standards.

  413. Afrocity
    You are a strong intelligent young lady.
    You have more friends here then you realise.
    You are smart enough to know right from wrong.
    You should stand up and shout “DAMN I AM SMART AND WILL ALWAYS HAVE PRINCIPALS.”

  414. Seriously: Too bad! Foisting this criminal on the rest of the country is just wrong. Do we thank him if he should win?
    Better to be silent than to give credence to this imposter whose machinations and sins are slowly being exposed.

    No more excuses!

  415. Afrocity
    You are a strong intelligent young lady.
    You have more friends here then you realise.
    You are smart enough to know right from wrong.
    You should stand up and shout “DAMN I AM SMART AND WILL ALWAYS HAVE PRINCIPALS.”
    No matter how this election turns out you will still have friends and be a strong person.



  416. Afrocity: I’m with you all the way. I wish I was there with you to make this easier. If you need anything at all, email me. I’m not nearly in the hot zone you’re in but I can listen.

    You’re a strong women to have made it through the things you have and I admire you greatly.

  417. Fuck political suicide. They are suppose to be “Leaders”. They need to “Lead”. McCain knows what that means. I don’t care about their job security. They can burn in hell if they don’t out this fraud.

  418. Wow. We sure have a bunch of factions in this election. I saw Will on Greta as I was jumping channels tonight.

    So you are Hillary supporters for McCain, despite Hillary’s endorsement and seemingly genuine concern that the ideals of the Democrats are larger than her loss in a tough primary.

    I am an independent . While I respect everyone’s right to vote on a single issue if they wish —- I don’t understand how casting an anti -Obama vote just because you are peeved at your own party helps those citizens, who the Republicans will leave on the side of the road– those who lack health insurance for instance or those who will die in Iraq. Seems very selfish from my viewpoint. Maybe very, very few of PUMAs are in this cohort. Maybe most are in the next group.

    If you are a former Hillary supporter voting for McCain because he, like Hillary is more experienced on a specific subject than Obama, then sure, go for it– I just think Palin is such a risk that she negates any positive McCain has.

    Can someone explain? If you are playing some Hillary in 2012 game, that seems a bit risky, too.

  419. Commit political suicide how? Obama is going to destroy the Clintons legacy once he gets in office. I personally could not do what they are doing for BO. BO definitely would not be doing it for HRC if the shoe was on the other foot .

  420. Check out the post at NQ : Dem speechwriter for The One going for McCain Palin and talking about how the Dem party has destroyed itself and every principle it has ever subscribed to.

  421. As for where I come from, I spent half of my life in a time and place where Fearless leader would make a speech and for months the press = as well as wroters would strive to echo-chamber those hallowed words. Hence my keen nose for propaganda and my sense of deja vu.

  422. Sorry about the double post.
    But it was worth saying twice.



  423. We’re not going to agree on this. Let’s just let it go. We’re not changing each other’s minds.

  424. Welll…at first it was just “we can’t smile without you,” but since that had no effect it turned into a fulfledged concert of Greatest Hits.

    But if you don’t like Manilow, we’re taking requests and there’s a whole Barbra Streisand’s Holiday Album thing in the works…

  425. The Clinton Legacy will be written by history. This isn’t about that anymore.

  426. Carol, did he? Then my powers are real! (Wasn’t watching)

  427. Brit: OMG! LMAO!!

    Seriously started singing Barry Manilow songs in the hopes that it would coax you back. No joke.

    You are going to make me go back & look through those threads now!! LMAO
    Seriously: I promise to never just “disappear” again (not only for you but for the sake of the others here) but if I do, try Grateful Dead tunes!

  428. Leaders Lead.

    Cheap politicians hype praise on inadequate lying nefarious creatures.


  429. BO is gonna lose, so Bill has to be a little careful and appear to be actually doing something. There are lots of Democrats who don’t like Obama who owuld have a problem with him if he did absolutely nothing.

  430. My vote for McCain is not a vote against Obama. I don’t do that and I did not vote at all in 2004, I could not stand Kerry or Bush. I greatly admire McCain and I find the prospect of Obama as president to be quite unsettling. Palin is fantastic and I would take her over BO any day.

  431. I am repeatedly shocked at the number of people on RD that want the Clinton’s to commit political suicide.

    Dee, I’m not one of them. Would it be fantastic to see Hillary and Bill stand up and blow the lid off the whole ugly farce? Of course.

    Do I understand why they don’t? Yes. And I also consider that there is so much we do not see that they have been and are including in their decisions.

    It is not a black & white issue. They are not perfect. We are looking for the ideal leader–someone who will always do the noble, courageous thing. Then, there’s reality. Does their unwillingness to step forward now negate all their good work, the profound strength and determination, the pioneering work that Hillary has done? No.

    We are all angry and frustrated, and it comes out for us in different ways. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings.

  432. Shilling for Obama….

    Isn’t this ends justify the means. gone a bit far? What if all that compromising of principles, strategizing, and calculating fails to bring about that end by which the means are supposed to be justified? There is just a trail of discarded principles…

    Wouldn’t someone want their legacy to be that of exemplifying integrity?

    As Pat would say, “No more excuses!”

  433. And I also consider that there is so much we do not see that they have been and are including in their decisions.

    scratch the “been.” I always start with the mistakes at this hour.

  434. I hate filthy trolls.

    independent voter my black ass. get a clue

  435. So they go out and attempt to sway the public to vote for this fool? Who do we “thank” for this travesty should he win as a result? I am still smarting over the SC decision to award Bush the trophy and how well has that turned out.

  436. afrocity – you get it. Good for you and your tough stance to stand for what is right, not what is just easy.

  437. Gre — go read the post titled “PUMA Power” at the top of this blog — it explains what is going on here, and frankly, I don’t feel like explaining it to you.

    Pat J — yeah, maybe John King, the LA Times reporter, etc. are as sick of that @ss as you are LMAO on that one. BUT, I kind of think it is a CYA move — if he loses, they can point to how “they covered him fairly” OR if he wins and this sh!t comes out (which it will because as much as the GOP is dragging its @ss to support McCain, they are not going to let the Congressional Dem majority stand without a fight) then they can say “Hey, we TOLD you about this!” Color me cynical about everyone & everything in this election — except the PUMAs.

  438. *bookmarks Jerry Garcia’s website, starts warming up vocal cords*

  439. Seriously — I’m totally flattered, and I love Barry M. myself. 🙂

  440. Now I am in moderation 😦

    (quietly goes and stands in the corner)

  441. It’s very easy to sit and home and tell Hillary and Bill what to do. They are the ones out there doing it, and have been for 40 years. And they will continue to work their as*ses off, because it’s who they are. We have seen her endure the worst kind of treatment. She’s earned the right to make her own choices about how she wants to go forward, IMHO.

  442. ugh AT AT AT home. I hate my late night typo deterioration.

  443. BTW — since you brought up the smile thing — I have a question to ask: that is my real smile in my picture not my ‘fake” smile — true I was “posing” in that picture but that is my real smile (I kind of have a big mouth). And, I have taken pictures with a ‘fake” smile (mouth is even bigger & face is “tight” in those). Anyway to my question: some one of face book who doesn’t know me (we have a mutual friend & I had posted on his wall) said that my smile looked “horrifically fake” Now, I choose to believe the ugly hag is just jealous, but do you all think my smile looks “horrifically fake?” I know it isn’t fake, but maybe I should get a new picture of myself (not that I have a lot of digital pictures — I’m still behind the curb on the technology front). Tell me the truth — myiq, if you are here, I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

  444. This blog has always stood for truth, fairness, and integrity. Watching it blown away by those who have the opportunity to uphold and maintain our principles is painful.

    And to continue to excuse these actions against our own best judgment is nothing more than sticking our heads in the sand and wishing it away. The reality is staring us straight in the eye. Ignoring it doesn’t help.

  445. Carol – Hillary’s ability to continue to lead from the U.S. Senate instead of being marginalized as the party outsider is very important to me. She is a good coalition builder so naturally she is balanced in her reaction/response to this mess in which she finds herself.

    Your idea of “leadership” is very different from mine. Taking a black and white position on this strikes me as taking the moral high ground. I wonder – how did you feel about Gloria, Bella and Betty after the defeat of the ERA? Did you blame them for the failure – did you blame the victims. Or did you blame the good ole boys club? How would you have felt about Alice Paul in the six to seven years before women got the vote because she had created a splinter group that many thought delayed passage of the amendment?

    Every one of us has a different idea about how to move democracy forward – I trust Hillary and Bill to understand the environment and stay in the game.

  446. fif
    There’s a long way from political suicide to the selling they are doing. They did it for Kerry too, and I remember the frothing at the mouth of the Kerry-ites that it was Clinton’s fault he lost”
    Don’t expect this not to happen again should B0 lose!

  447. lisadawn
    Voter suppression …
    The Democrats’ preemptive strike has been delivered from Barack Obama’s legal team this time around.


  448. They’re not swaying anything, people know how he feels about Bo and why. Bo is going down, but remember how upset people got when Bo was attacking Bill Clinton? Because it’s a crazy, disloyal, assy, politically stupid thing for a Democrat in a primary to do to the last President of his party and alienates voters? Well, if BC didn’t do something for Obama, some people could legitimately look at him the same way. Despite everything BC has done for this party, he could be unfairly painted as a political liability who no longer cares about the party. It’s political suicide. Instead, he’s teh amazing statesman who’s supporting a loser even though he trashed his family, all out of party loyalty. He’s teh Mr. Democrat hero/

  449. Angie, I love your picture. It is what made me stay on this site and coaxed me from lurking. It is very friendly and you look like a socialite. Someone that I would want to talk to at a party, well dressed and styled. A smart politically savvy woman.

    I should get another pic huh? That pic looks better if it were bigger.

  450. Please , people, remember that this election is also about women’s position in the world. How? Hanging any woman, much less a woman running for VP is unconsciounable, and cannot be allowed to happen in this country.

    For God’s sake, the women of Afghanistan have taken a stand and said they don’t want their government talking to the Taliban. Doesn’t mean that they will listen, but this is the women of Afghanistan!!!

    Are we less secure in our position in this country than that? I don’t really care what the boys in West Hollywood were trying to say. We should be saying to them,”Wise up, jack asses, you couldn’t walk the streets as a free gay man, if it weren’t for all the women who marched for you, and fought for you, and defended you.”

    This is just one more time when women were in the front lines of someone’s movement, and they don’t even notice that we are here. If the rest of you aren’t appalled, then I ask you to think long and hard about this. Just because the law says you can’t hang a black man in effigy (it’s a hate crime), doesn’t mean it’s okay to hang a woman in effigy.

    If you really don’t see that this Tuesday’s vote has a lot to do with where women, all women, will fit in this country’s structure over the next four years, then you are missing a big part of the political puzzle.

    Fence sitters. git on down and make the right move now. There is no partial action that will suffice. A write-in,or a Nadar, or a McKinney is a pat on Obama’s back, and a slap in the face of those suffragettes who went through hell for us nearly a century ago. (Not ignoring the men, if you are on this site, then you need to absorb this, too, we count on, and expect your respect.)

  451. Stay strong people, don’t let the haters get you down. sorry to hear about your problems Afrocity, don’t let those words work on you, don’t let them win, stay strong and keep smilin’ 🙂

  452. I work my job to the full extent of my capacity. I don’t take any prisoners.

    I didn’t sign up or pretend to be a World Leader. They did. Now is the time to Lead. She should have put a stop to it from the beginning or gone down trying.

    I’ve been there with my job. The police would have had to take me out if I didn’t get the respect I earned and demanded.

    You want to play with the big boys and girls, then you should be prepared to punch until someone goes down for the count! Sarah and John have not problem with it.

  453. So they go out and attempt to sway the public to vote for this fool?

    Pat, I don’t think they are looking at it in terms of BO at all. HRC has been campaigning non-stop for down ticket Dems. She promised in her suspension speech that she would continue fighting for the same things she has always advocated “long after the lights and cameras are gone.” THAT is her agenda. I spoke to my NY Dem party friend recently, and she has seen HRC at many events lately, and told me as much. Hillary is focused on a Dem majority so she can push through legislation and increase the number of women in office. Does it suck that BO is the nominee and they are assisting his election–yes. Am I gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater? No. If we do not accept some flaws in our leaders, we will have none. Do I wish Ghandi was available to be our candidate. Sure, but he’s gone, and I don’t see any Ghandi II’s on the horizon.

    I’m too tired to think clearly anymore tonight. Hillary’s strength and intelligence touched me deeply. I still love her–can’t help lovin’ that woman of mine…

  454. Thanks Pat….now I’ll be going to bed with a “CopaCabanna” earworm.

    — her name was Lola…she was a showgirl…with yellow feathers in her hair…

  455. Carol (and others) I respectfully disagree with your view on political leadership.

  456. Better a “hero” to the Party than a sell out to the entire nation? Political suicide? He can never run again for office so I am not clear on what constitutes his political suicide.

    Look, I admire the man for what he has done. However, knowing what we do about the primary and what lies in Obama’s background, it would be better if he just went to Africa and continue the great work he has started. Pretending that Obama is a qualified candidate who will pose more harm than good if elected goes against what I thought we all were seeking. We can no longer sit her and chide the MSM for its blinding support when members of our own party do it as well. It is a double standard that sucks in my opinion.

  457. As to the Clinton question — I’ll be honest — I’ve always known the Clintons were politicians & there is a certain amount of “lack of integrity” I’m willing to accept from a politician — I also know that the Clintons in spite of the fact that they are politicians are those rare politicians who actually do want to help people, to make this country better and that is were my admiration for them comes from. In other words, as much as I support the Clintons, work to get them elected, etc. I am not to Hillary what the Obots are to Obama. The Clintons have flaws, I can see them & admit them. Doesn’t mean I will not vote for them in the future (if given the chance). So, what they are doing now, I’m not that surprised or offended by. Whatever. If BO loses & Hillary runs in 2012 she still has my money & my vote. I too don’t like Bill shilling for BO, but I still admire the work he has done & the work he will continue to do. But, everyone has the right to decide for themselves.

  458. I agree with Dennis Miller that Obama, as an AA ( and I use the term loosely) should have ask those people to take the noosed Palin down. That image bothers me 1) as a woman 2) as an AA 3) it is disrespectful and sends the very message that BO is not for CHANGE. I thought his presidency was supposed to help race relations.

  459. Amen Pat! I feel the same.

    Now, I’m off to bed! Goodnight everybody.

  460. We can agree to disagree. I am off to bed with snippets of Barry Manilow’s Greatest Hits dancing in my head.

  461. I’m going just shutdown my participation in this argument and leave it at I agree, as I have for many weeks, to disagree.

  462. afrocity — I saw that too & actually agree with Dennis Miller (lord help me). But what was up with Bill O saying “it isn’t ‘presidential’ for a candidate to address something going on by two supporters” WTF? How about being “human” Bill? How is it “presidential” to let hatred toward women by your supporters go unaddressed — oh, yeah, nevermind — it was hatred toward women that got BO the nomination & (if he wins) the election.

  463. Here are the list of “journalists” allowed into press conferences:
    Campbell Brown
    Mika Brezynski
    Roland Martin
    Rachel Maddow
    Charlie Gibson

  464. I’ve been there with my job. The police would have had to take me out if I didn’t get the respect I earned and demanded.

    You want to play with the big boys and girls, then you should be prepared to punch until someone goes down for the count! Sarah and John have not problem with it.

    Carol, how can you say that? You don’t think HRC has earned and demanded respect? You don’t think she has taken and given many punches? Sarah did not live through a decade of relentless attack, and she has the support of her own Party in her attacks against an opponent. That is an entirely different fight. To suggest that HRC is not brave or a fighter negates everything we’ve witnessed.

  465. I for one am NOT condemning HRC or Bill, and admire them. However, I don’t have to condone what they are doing. I am done with giving people a pass. It’s my view of course and no one has to share it.

    I want a party that wont compromise principles, cares about HOW it obtains its objectives, and one of which I can be proud. O is running a campaign that will compromise everything and in doing so, if he should win, he has undermined his legitimacy. And if he doesn’t win, he will have a legacy of merely compromising everything.

  466. afrocity — thank you! and I love your picture — very smoldering & sexy, I think.

  467. fuzzybeargville wrote:
    Thats when I got the good news-bad news from the mechanic….good news my oil was changed bad news the car was not ready….see some one forgot to tell the gorillia to be careful with my handle and he yanked it right off….

    I was visually obvious the handle needed to be treated with care but this guy did not care. Now my car would not be ready because 1988 hoinda accord drivers front side door handles are not easy to come by!
    Well, accidents that make the shop money can happen.

    As the economy worsens, people who normally just cheat you will escalate into massive rip-offs.

    You need to wise-up. Just because a cheat broke it doesn’t mean that you should let the cheat over-charge you and make money from you as well.

    You could make the argument that they are simply incompetent. This doesn’t really help you case as to why you are still dealing with them. You don’t have a relationship with them, they are not your friends. As witnessed by their failure to inform you the door was broken when it happened.

    Cut-losses and leave.

    Have someone else repair it.

    I’ve more than halved repair costs… when the problems just don’t mysteriously disappear…. by leaving cheats. Cheat-detection is a vital skill.

    It was amusing in college when a cheat would tell me I ‘got to go back to them’ to have my car reinspected. It was only slightly less amusing than having different cheats come up with different +$500 problems. Of course “checklist Bob” was actually a likeable guy at that point. “Wear on brake pads, needs replacement”. At least I could be sure that there was in fact wear on the brake pads, and at some point they would indeed need to be replaced.

    I’ve used the term cheat, because honesty generally goes all the way through… as does being a sneaky cheat. Which is why I wasn’t the least surprised to discover one cheat I know has an illegitimate daughter in another state.

    Reward the honest ones by paying in cash so they can avoid income and sales taxes. They have to make up the income lost by not cheating people someway.

  468. angie – I have been amazed at how little BC has campaigned for Obama. He filled up his schedule with important trips to Africa, the Global Initiative conference, an extended trip to Canada and probably said he needed to wash his hair and do the laundry on more than one occasion.

    He has been dancing one hell of a delicate dance and succeeded much better than I thought he could.

  469. Regency, it’s a good thread in which to hone your debating skills. 😉

  470. {{sigh}}

  471. The MSM manual
    1) deny it
    2) blame someone else
    3) call whatever it is, a “distraction”

  472. Gre: Here’s the simplest explanation- The man who ran his campaign like Genghis Khan is unlikely to govern like the Dalai Lama.

    This isn’t about Hillary anymore. We respect and admire her and we feel her pain but she is no longer in this picture. This is about the Obama campaign and the DNC trampling on the right to self determination of 18 million people. A party that does not listen to its voters before the election is unlikely to listen to them afterwards. They are no more likely to respond to the needs of the poor than Republicans. And I am not about to vote for a second conservative party in this country.

  473. Pat…only after hanging on to the bottle too long.

  474. Call them racist

  475. gre
    Some of us are voting Country First. We do not believe Obama is who he says he is. Yes, most of us support many measures he offers but we have a serious problems with the aggression from his organized supporters, our perception of his lack of previous public accomplishments, his record and associations.
    You may not understand, and ironically many of us are healthcare voters and want to end the war but we cannot not hear Obamas nice words and just pretend the rest doesn’t exist.

  476. He has been dancing one hell of a delicate dance and succeeded much better than I thought he could.

    I’ve thought the same thing. Like Canada! How the eff did he squeeze in Canada like that?

    Brit: Trust me, it’s not. I had a long response prepared before decided that it just wasn’t going to work out.

  477. Every one of us has a different idea about how to move democracy forward – I trust Hillary and Bill to understand the environment and stay in the game.

    Dee, I’m right there with you, and also the points you made angie. The Clintons are not saints, and I don’t expect them to be. Part of the reason I like her is that she is a “player.” I do not have illusions about the cess pool that is DC, and I know she can get things done. The belief by the Bots that Obama is somehow above all of that–that he is pure and transformative is an illusion as we’ve already seen.

  478. nite Pat J & Bonita!

    afrocity — forgot to say re: my picture: it is funny you say I look like a socialite — that was taken at a charity ball last October that I went to so I was all “dressed to the nines” in a ball gown, with my hair in a chignon & my make up all done up! Glad to know I pulled off the “look” I was going for! “

  479. The man who ran his campaign like Genghis Khan is unlikely to govern like the Dalai Lama.

    Oh RD–that’s a keeper!!

  480. Better a “hero” to the Party than a sell out to the entire nation? Political suicide? He can never run again for office so I am not clear on what constitutes his political suicide.

    His wife is still in public office. I’ve always thought that if Hillary still wasn’t in public office, Bill would be more candid about what he really thinks of Obama. He would be explaining in interviews, in his brilliant, accessible way of communicating, the pros and cons of Obama.

    I think Hillary mainly wants to get the job done, to push the agenda forward. She chooses to work within the system where she can be influential. I think to call her and Bill out for supporting Obama is extremely idealistic. Perfect is the enemy of good.

  481. Angie – your smile is lovely. Goes with your smarts and general demeanor. Tell your acquaintance to get stuffed.

    I think the Clintons feel the need to stay involved so there are some grownups around when everything goes to hell during the first six months of the Obama Administration. SOMEone’s gonna have to clean up the mess. Personally, I’m grateful they haven’t simply washed their hands.

    All this respectfully said of course.

  482. In my opinion BC does not owe Obama or the DNC anything. The DNC would be insignificant today if it were not for the Clintons. I was shocked at the way the Clintons were treated during the primaries by the BO camp.

    AA’s always said that BC was the first black president. The suddenly BC goes from that to being a racist in the eyes of the BO camp. The primaries amounted to nothing but an ugly race baiting Kangaroo Court.

  483. Regency, maybe you can do a post about it.

  484. If I had the information regarding the creeps about to fly planes into buildings, I would not hesitate to scream it from the mountain tops under heavy fire!

    If I had the information regarding Timothy McVeigh going to bomb the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, I would not hesitate to scream it from the mountain tops under heavy fire!

    Obama is more dangerous and more lethal than any of these people. Bill and Hill should be screaming it from the mountain tops under heavy fire! They know what the truth is, and they are complicit in trying to give him the opportunity to reek his vicious ignorance and radical agenda on all of us. That’s not Leadership. That’s not Courage. That’s treason!

    Good Night and Good Luck!


  485. Dee — I agree wholeheartedly — Bill has really limited himself to the campaigning he has done for BO & done it in a very smart way — really, what is more important, getting BO elected or fighting AIDS in Africa? Come on now — who can argue against that? I firmly believe the only reason he is doing anything at all now is only a CYA for Hillary’s future when BO goes down. If Hillary wasn’t in the Senate right now, Bill would not have stepped foot back in the US until Nov. 5.

  486. Thanks Eleanor!! xoxo

    btw — are we getting a new thread soon? My browser is getting really slow to reload on this one.

  487. Carol
    I have seen many cues from the Clintons not to vote for Obama, it could be my imagination, but it is what I see.
    I’m very happy Clinton is in Washington making what I feel are important efforts to better our nation. Anyway it is not over yet, but the ride sure as hell has been wild.

  488. It’s her political suicide. He can’t run again, but he’ll be universally reviled as a petulant brat who can’t handle the truth and was too immature to be President, was only about instant gratification, never cared about anything but himself. Even people who don’t like Obama would see him that way. Bush and McCain hare each other, but Bush is more mature than Clinton, they;d say. And if would have zero effect except possibly to help Obama, who would then be the transcedent figure in contrast to billy Bob the Blithering Fool who never learned any manners in one of the icky Southern states. Yeah, the press trashes him now and no one cares, but in that case his behavior would piss off enough Democrats for it to stick. Obama would tehn be teh innocent victim of the slimy Clintons with their machine and their power hungry inappropriate behavior.

    I don’t even like the man that much but why ask him to fall on his sword, destroy his reputation, destroy his wife’s career, and help Obama? Oh and that’s Clintons out of teh party, so the Obamacrats and Deaniacs would have complete control. They’re pragamatists.

  489. Eleanor, I disagree. I don’t think that Brazille, Kerry, Dean and the other OBOTS will let the Clintons have any say in the BO administration. BO will soon learn that he is a lap dog. He will tank. Many predicted he will be like Carter. Actually I predict that it will be closer to the Nixon administration with a Watergate-esque finale. Can you say SPECIAL PROSECUTOR??? Obama promised cabinet positions to Valerie Jarret and Mayor Daley’s brother. The Chicago machine will extend it clientele to Washington DC. Something that I never thought would happen. Expect Ayers and Wright to come out of hiding back on the scene. I would not doubt if BO calls them on election night.

  490. Petal — it is not your imagination (cues not to vote for Obama). I recall Bill clearly stating that calling McCain’s decision to go back to DC for the bail out bill was “wrong & unfair McCain wouldn’t do that’ and that the Dems were just as much to blame for the financial crises as the Republicans (to name just two examples). Maybe it doesn’t go as far as saying “don’t for him” but it definitely says to me “it’s ok not to vote for him.”

  491. I for one am NOT condemning HRC or Bill, and admire them. However, I don’t have to condone what they are doing. I am done with giving people a pass. It’s my view of course and no one has to share it.

    jvsp: I don’t disagree. I don’t think anyone is giving them a “pass.” I cannot even look at them in his presence. Respecting them, and being disappointed are not mutually exclusive. They are imperfect, but I accept that and can appreciate the greatness they have displayed at times, and the work they have done.

    That’s my last word on it. Too late for complex thought from this tired brain.

  492. Britannia: I started to do a post on it but I came to think there wasn’t a need. I was wrong because we’re back where we started.

  493. fif – Yep – all leaders are flawed but at least they try.

    I have been involved in every liberal “movement” since the Vietnam war. I have marched on D.C. more times than I can count – mostly flying in from the midwest or the southwest. When I went to the RBC meeting in May I told my companions it was my last protest as it was time for the next generation. Then the RBC turned out to be so tame that I decided I can not finish up that way. So now I look forward to another march in D.C. in the near future for the new women’s movement.

    In every movement some always blame the leaders when success seems unattainable or loss – instead of the oppressors. And, if you don’t like the leaders then it is your responsibility to step up and become the leader.

  494. New thread — I’m moving over there — this one is taking my browser too long to reload.

  495. I actually NEVEr watch them campaign for him. Or I do so on mute. I’m an avid lover of theirs so I don’t mind looking but I don’t have to listen. I know where they stand and where they always have. I don’t need to hear it.

  496. The Clintons aside, what principle are you not willing to compromise? Answering that there are those that are non-negotiable is not precluding that there is no room for one to compromise. It is establishing a limit. To assert that there is no limit is the extreme view. The question is where to set the limit.

  497. I like both your pictures. They are much nicer than the little creatures – although, I am attached to mine.

    People say wierd, judgemental things.

    I have always said to my girlfriends who want to tell me about any gossip about me: What somebody says behind my back is none of my business!

  498. ^^ should be “..does not preclude that there is room for compromise.”

  499. fif,
    I agree. I’ll shut up. ..sorry for belaboring the point.

  500. Riverdaughter and Petal– thanks so much for your kind explanations. I like the Genghis Kahn reference– Mongol is a good DVD rental.

    My long time admiration for McCain– over 20 years– was just gutted by his selection of Palin. Just too risky a choice for my grandsons to endure should she become Pres. So many others, he could have selected.

    Thanks. bye for now.

  501. Fuck political suicide. They are suppose to be “Leaders”. They need to “Lead”. McCain knows what that means.

    ok one more point. I was catching up upthread and saw this. Carol, now you’re idealizing McCain. He has been towing the Bush party line for the last 8 years, waiting for his chance to run again. He has opposed some issues, but has run this race as a Reagan conservative, not the moderate he once was. He is walking a fine political line, trying to build a coalition. He and Hillary are a lot alike in that way. As someone else said, pragmatists, trying to accomplish the most good in a bad situation. “Burn in hell?” Ouch. That’s harsh.

  502. jvsp: lol! As you can see, I can’t shut up either…

  503. Gre: before you go!

    Why is it too risky to imagine Palin as president with an experienced VP and cabinet, but it is less risky for the equally (and some say, more so) inexperienced Obama as president, with Biden as ballast?

  504. Gre — puh-lease with your “respect for McCain being gutted by his choice of Palin”– it is much, much smarter to take the chance that McCain doesn’t die then the chance of BO (less qualified then Palin) actually being president. That is an Obot argument that we’ve seen before.

  505. Regency: (((((hugs))))

    I can feel you wincing through this discussion.

  506. It’s getting very late and I have been reading the comments for over an hour, and still can’t catch up.
    So I just quit reading and wanted to add that I come here everyday. Sometimes I comment, but most of the time, I don’t. You all say what I think and say it better than I can. So I just take in all the comraderie and feel less isolated.

    I came here by way of TM linking to NQ and then I left TM as she was goofy – even while she was suporting HRC. And I work with goofiness all day. I can’t deal with it during the night, as well.

    While I was at NQ, I linked to or was linked by a comment from Tom Watson to RD. And I have never left. I was here when SM coined PUMA and I laughed out loud and used it Right Away. I called my mother – 95 y/o democrat, and said “We Are PUMAs” and she agreed.

    I have often written that I feel at home here. And safe. I feel as if you are my family, and I can just be – while am here.

    I voted today! I voted against BO and the DNC. I voted Green for most of the ballot. I voted Rep against my very popular IL-9th CD representative. Yesterday, I wrote her and told her she had lost my trust and my vote as well. I voted for only one Dem – my state rep. She is awesome. This makes the 2nd time in my life (I’m over 60) that I have not voted for a D for president.
    I voted for the future today.

    Thanks for being here. and for being family.

  507. “you’re idealizing McCain. He has been towing the Bush party line for the last 8 years”

    Word! Bush made raci st attacks against McCain’s *daughter* and McCain still carried his water. And Bush is as dangerous as Obama, so…

  508. Eleanor A. – what you said at 12:27 regarding the Clintons(and Angie’s pic too) I agree with.

    When you stated ‘I think the Clintons feel the need to stay involved” – they would be needed for clean-up if BZero some how got into office – except BZero would never ask – he is too dense and egocentric to do that.
    I think the Clintons feel the need to stay involved because they have threats – “something” like a gun held to their heads. Heros are getting more and more difficult to come by- the Clintons have a record – a history that I am proud of and I admire them. Their judgement is sound. They are not perfect – nor do I demand perfection.

  509. Obama ran against the man’s wife, bottom line. Anything he said about him would be taken as sour grapes and character defects and devious motives. He’s not the person who can carry the message and be listened to, although it seems like he made a damn good try of it anyway.

  510. Gre – from your first comment regarding our ability to vote against our party – to your last comment of your inability to vote for McPalin shows when your head is. I suspect you are a proll.

    One of the unacceptable traits of a Rethug is they never break with the party – no matter what. Another is they are not only “religious” they are “God” and they will tell you what you can and cannot do. Um, that’s two.

    I do not care who you are voting for. Country before party – BZero equals chaos. Everything about his “campaign” is questionable – his selection by DNC and the media, his stances on issues that chance with the wind, his campaign “donations” – all questionable. Never mind his piss poor judgement and thin resume.

    Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  511. I’m enormously grateful for this site and all the other PUMA sites. I left dkos and have no intention of ever returning; same for Taylor Marsh, TPM…like Taggles way up above, I was one of the last holdouts for Hillary at DU; at the time I gave up on them I was one of about 10 pro-Hillary posters there, and it just became too much.

    The sense of isolation can be overwhelming, which is why having like minds to converse with becomes vital. The oases of this site, TalkLeft (until Jeralyn drank the Kool-Aid), Corrente (which is still a really good Obamaskeptic site), and Cannonfire, and others I’m sure I’m forgetting, have strengthened my resolve daily.

    The PUMAs I feel bad for are what I call the uncounted PUMAs–I know they are out there; I talk to them every day. They are the Democrats who don’t have blogs or read blogs, who may not even have Internet access, who don’t watch political talk shows, who probably don’t even read newspapers…but can’t bring themselves to vote for BO. There are probably even more of them than there are of us. And they are probably the ones who hold this election in their hands.

  512. The PUMA problem is one of lacking a clear, declarative platform. Without such definitions, their identity is inevitably going to derive instead from the antagonistic relationships which they have willfully pursued for themselves, from their environment as opposed to something intrinsic to themselves. Rather than taking on a coherent political identity, they have opted instead to fall into the historically re-emergent category of being a group of contrarian spoilers and thinly-disguised shills for the opposing party. People always make claims of democratic disenfranchisement by the two-party system, but they become complacently satisfied as soon as their group becomes one of those two parties. Democracy can’t be conducted if we adopt sore loser, contrarian politics. The fact that PUMA does not have a static constitution (a platform) speaks to their willingness and preference of being whiny hypocrites. And the argument about being victims of attacks doesn’t hold water either–it’s politics. Everyone is attacked, and those who claim victimhood only do so in regret that they were not the attackers.

    Obiden, baby!

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  515. hey jesse…bite me DA

  516. And…thank you for making my point. : )

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