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Thursday: Minds wide open, brains falling out

This is a busy morning.  I’ve got family coming in from out of town and 10 months of blogging has not done wonders for my housekeeping skills.  So, I’ll make this short and will leave you to follow the links.

I was very disappointed to find out today that someone who I have great respect for has implied that we are racists or have racist thoughts or approve of racism or use racist dogwhistle themes in our posts.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  We do not approve of racism and take active steps to remove any reference to racist themes from our posts.

However, it is the case that sometimes reality is reality and people in the news of all races, class, status, color, gender, you name it, do things that make them look bad.  This is an unavoidable fact of like.  It is also the case that sometimes programs and federal funds that are created for very good purposes are exploited by people who happen to be of all races, class, color, gender, you name it, who *are*, after all, imperfect humans.  Greed and bad behavior is not restricted to Republicans.  We have seen that some Democrats are quite capable of it.

As I said before, I do not have time to get into all of the details but I keep pretty current with news over time and I am aware that in some minority neighborhoods, some homeowners were steered into ill-advised loans when they might have applied for more stable FHA loans. Do I know all of the details?  No.  I do not.  BUT I do know that many lenders have played fast and loose with predatory lending practices and that the burden of these loans and their ballooning payments falls disproportionately on the poor.  The poor pay more for everything, as a matter of fact, including groceries when there aren’t large chain stores in their neighborhoods, and banking in general and for pay day loans, etc, etc.  It’s a well-known pattern of exploitation and part of the cycle of poverty.

I also know that to grant a group like ACORN money from a bailout bill in a year when one of its former associates is running for president is remarkably politically tone deaf.  It smacks of a conflict of interest, especially when that group’s well known  GOTV operations is combined with what we know of that politician’s propensity to unburden himself from scruples when it is convenient to him.

Now, you can take that any way you want it.  But racist it is not.  And as for the affirmative action candidacy of Barack Obama, we merely report on perceptions.  When you have a less experienced, unqualified male vaulting to the top over a more experienced, knowledgeable woman who put in her time and played by the rules, and strings were pulled for that man, *in spite of all we have seen about his inability to lead*, it smacks of affirmative action practices of the worst kind that play right into Republican hands.

What I have read in the past month, since I and other PUMAs put our asses on the line in Denver, has disturbed me greatly not so much because of the secretive. cliquey, gossipy communications between those bloggers who we thought were our friends but because these same people feel very comfortable commenting from the sidelines but refuse to get themselves dirty.  I’ve even had one blogger ask me to submit a list of the racist comments we have deleted to prove that we don’t let them linger. They have no right to criticize those of us who march into the battle and put our reputations on the line, who have been frequently misinterpreted, sometimes deliberately so, in order to speak up.

Those of us in the PUMA and related efforts have made many attempts to reach out to Anglachel to get her to join in some greater effort unrelated to PUMA, some greater effort beyond herself.  She has been playing very coyly and hard to get but doesn’t waste a minute talking about us behind our back instead of actively engaging in conversation.  If she or anyone at Corrente wants to call myself, Sheri or Darragh racists and in bed with Republicans, let them do it to our faces.  We will happily give them our addresses.  I want them to look in my face and accuse me of racism and Republicanism.  And bring *proof*.

I am beyond disappointed.

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318 Responses

  1. G’morning RD!

    One thing about the post in question is it talks about recycled right wing talking points being used by people on the left.

    She’s right, they have been used by various people this year, including PUMAs.

    But I don’t think people always know the history of some of these things, and they read a story that seems well sourced and is written by someone who is usually credible, so they believe it’s true.

    I don’t vet every story I read, and I’ve been burned a few times with credible looking bullsh*t. It happened just last week when I repeated something from Joe Cannon.

    When I found out the story was incorrect I immediately changed my post, as did Joe when he found out.

    Sometimes we are predisposed to believe stories because of how we feel about someone. That’s just being human.

    But if there are any rac*sts hanging around this blog they conceal it well. Our regulars can be brutal in their criticisms of Obama and the Dem leadership, but their criticisms are rational and based on facts, not prejudices.

    I think our friend should have simply set the record straight and not pointed fingers. I hate Obama but I’m not going to knowingly spread lies about him.

  2. “I was very disappointed to find out today that someone who I have great respect for has implied that we are racists or have racist thoughts or approve of racism or use racist dogwhistle themes in our posts. ”
    ***********
    This Presidential campaign has really been an eye opener. I knew the Republican party was totally rotten and now I discover that the “good guys” in our political drama aren’t worth much either. If people call me a racist for opposing a person who is not psychologically fit to be President, I will consider that word synonymous for having good judgment.

  3. One more thing. A while back I almost did a post about Affirmative Action (after reading our friend’s posts on the subject) but I didn’t because I was concerned that someone would play the race card on me.

    Maybe I’ll go ahead a do it afterall, but I won’t post it here.

  4. Who what huh?

  5. I too an saddened at the swipe anglachel took at the Confluence and at PUMA. She, who is so smart, should know better than to take comments from a few and apply it to the whole. That said, I will still read her blog, but will now take what she says with a very large grain of salt.

    I don’t expect to agree with everything anyone says, and I reserve the right to disagree with anyone. Doesn’t make them right or me wrong or anybody evil. Just means we disagree.

  6. I knew there was a bad strain running through her as soon as she said she would never, ever vote Republican…as if every Republican is a dirty scum bag. Talk about racism…or is that classism…partyism?

  7. I don’t think this blog is racist. Most of the people posting regularly on here have cared about social justice issues for a long time, that’s clear. We still care. I was reading an SPLC Intelligence Report and it quoted one white supremacist professor as saying that this election is about white Americans absolving themselves of white guilt by voting for Obama. I am not a white supremacist, but I think there is some truth to that statement for some people. Race-talk makes almost all Americans uncomfortable, and r@cism is confused with saying anything negative or oppositional to something that may be predominantly African American oriented. We need to be reflective, but we don’t need to put on hairshirts. I disagree with Anglachel.

  8. I haven’t much time to comment, so here’s what I submitted at anglachel’s place. Whether she publishes it or not is up to her.

    When you accuse people of racism without basis, you have crossed a very important line. Frankly, I find your race-baiting of the people at the Confluence very disgusting. It should have been beneath you. The fact that it wasn’t says a lot about your character and judgment. I can assure you that the supposed “dog whistle” you claim to have heard is nonexistent. I’m Black and I damn well would have heard it long before it reached your ears.

    From what you’ve written, it is crystal clear that you are one of those “nominal allies” of whom you (and Somerby) spoke in a prior post. Whether you post this comment or not, I hope you are not too arrogant to understand the import of what you have done.

  9. Racism accusations are back!
    Ifill is complaining that she is a victim of it too!

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/ifill-plays-the-race-card-re-her-conflict-of-interest/

  10. this discussion raises some

  11. Thank you for that, Xeno. I’m not sure which post she is referring to. I haven’t read all the posts from yesterday, because I’ve been really busy.

  12. RD — Thank you for this response to Anglachel. I too am just racing off to something unavoidable, but I agree that the whistle claim is excessive, and not grounded in the facts.

  13. This is hurtful since it is illustrative of the rush to crush dissent by wrapping in the guise of ra*cism. Have we really come to this? Almost.

  14. Anglachel – “The r*cists simply saw advantages being provided to minorities and needed no other reason to oppose it.”

    In my opinion, her “reversed r*cism” speaks of her deficiency. To imply that people deserve loans based on a history of being denied them is absurd. I didn’t receive any “inherited generational wealth”. I in fact have been feeding, housing and supporting my family members intermittently for 42 years. I had to work overtime to drag myself out of poverty with 6 family members weighting me down (not including, raising a child pretty much on my own).

    Yesterday, I got a call from a 44 year old Black woman that I worked with for 3 years starting in 1997. She was 33 when I met her with 4 kids, an ex-husband in prison, and practically no family support. She worked her ass off, ran home to feed everyone, do homework, went to college and stocked shelves on the midnight shift at the grocery store to bring in enough cash to put braces on everyone’s teeth and pay for their extra curricular activies. I have never heard her complain about it or brag that she did it. She got out from under her situation with hard work. She bought her small house under the system of affordability and credit rating.

    Everyone has a story, most people have an excuse if they want to play to it, some people just get out there and do the work.

    The money paid to ACORN looks to me to be a scam with no oversight and no advantage. If you set people up without a foundation, they will most likely fail – and that’s not r*cism, that’s predictable.

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  15. I love white people who are so eloquent about racism. Ha! I grew up in a city that was 65% black (New Orleans). Unlike many cities in this country (as I’ve come to find out) the AA population in NOLA is the majority in all classes — poor, middle & upper. I’m not that impressed by Obama because he is not the first well educated black man I’ve ever seen — I grew up with black lawyers, doctors, professors. My mother is a professor at an AA university, and frankly, compared to some of her colleagues, Obama isn’t very impressive at all. I had a friend in college (I went away to school) who was from a sub. of Boston & she always spoke about how racist the south was. When I went with her to see the Head of the Charles I was struck by the fact that there was no black people in her town (or at least not in HER neighborhood). This has struck me about a lot of cities in this country — the obvious segregation that simply does not exist in NOLA. In turn, when she came with me to NOLA for Mardi Gras her reaction to “all the black people” was the racist thing I’ve ever seen. I mean! “They” lived right next door! I suspect that many “liberal” whites (including the poster who shall not be named) are like this friend of mine from college — they simply don’t know what they are talking about because if they actually knew a lot of black people they would know that AA come in a variety of classes (not all people got suckered into subprime lending are black, my dear) and, more importantly, all characters.

  16. Anglachel is somewhat full of herself. She writes as though she believes all her opinions are gold. Some of her opinions I agree with and some I do not. I think PUMA bloggers should return the favor and drop her from thier blog roll also. I”m sure she’s seen more traffic since joining up with PUMA . Other than that I wouldn’t worry about anything she writes> I’t s just one person’s opinion and like everyone else, she can be wrong.

  17. I’m in moderation, so I’ll try again:

    I love white people who are so eloquent about r@cism. Ha! I grew up in a city that was 65% black (New Orleans). Unlike many cities in this country (as I’ve come to find out) the AA population in NOLA is the majority in all classes — poor, middle & upper. I’m not that impressed by Obama because he is not the first well educated black man I’ve ever seen — I grew up with black lawyers, doctors, professors. My mother is a professor at an AA university, and frankly, compared to some of her colleagues, Obama isn’t very impressive at all. I had a friend in college (I went away to school) who was from a sub. of Boston & she always spoke about how racist the south was. When I went with her to see the Head of the Charles I was struck by the fact that there was no black people in her town (or at least not in HER neighborhood). This has struck me about a lot of cities in this country — the obvious segregation that simply does not exist in NOLA. In turn, when she came with me to NOLA for Mardi Gras her reaction to “all the black people” was the racist thing I’ve ever seen. I mean! “They” lived right next door! I suspect that many “liberal” whites (including the poster who shall not be named) are like this friend of mine from college — they simply don’t know what they are talking about because if they actually knew a lot of black people they would know that AA come in a variety of classes (not all people got suckered into subprime lending are black, my dear) and, more importantly, all characters.

  18. One more time:
    14.

    I love white people who are so eloquent about r@cism. Ha! I grew up in a city that was 65% black (New Orleans). Unlike many cities in this country (as I’ve come to find out) the AA population in NOLA is the majority in all classes — poor, middle & upper. I’m not that impressed by Obama because he is not the first well educated black man I’ve ever seen — I grew up with black lawyers, doctors, professors. My mother is a professor at an AA university, and frankly, compared to some of her colleagues, Obama isn’t very impressive at all. I had a friend in college (I went away to school) who was from a sub. of Boston & she always spoke about how racist the south was. When I went with her to see the Head of the Charles I was struck by the fact that there was no black people in her town (or at least not in HER neighborhood). This has struck me about a lot of cities in this country — the obvious segreg@tion that simply does not exist in NOLA. In turn, when she came with me to NOLA for Mardi Gras her reaction to “all the black people” was the r@cist thing I’ve ever seen. I mean! “They” lived right next door! I suspect that many “liberal” whites (including the poster who shall not be named) are like this friend of mine from college — they simply don’t know what they are talking about because if they actually knew a lot of black people they would know that AA come in a variety of classes (not all people got suckered into subprime lending are black, my dear) and, more importantly, all characters.

  19. Anglachel is smart…. in a way. She has a tendency to take a generalization and drive away with it forgeting where the road is, forgetting her responsibility to other drivers, forgetting that the car needs fuel, and the driver needs a idea of the trip they are taking.

    She runs to theorizing at the cost of reality. It has been a flaw that she has always had. She becomes enraptured in the melody in her head, and instead of being honest that she is only following one instrument, pretends she is writing a symphony.

    I am sorry she chose to take an ill considered shot at
    the Confluence and at other sites.

    She has shamed herself, and no one else.

  20. why am I in moderation?

  21. Anglachel is a theoretician. It is the nature of theoreticians to sit above the fray and pass judgement.

  22. If I’m lucky enough to get out of moderation — please only let my first comment out — the two next are the same thing repeated.

  23. I love white people who are so eloquent about r@cism. Ha! I grew up in a city that was 65% black (New Orleans). Unlike many cities in this country (as I’ve come to find out) the AA population in NOLA is the majority in all classes — poor, middle & upper. I’m not that impressed by Obama because he is not the first well educated black man I’ve ever seen — I grew up with black lawyers, doctors, professors. My mother is a professor at an AA university, and frankly, compared to some of her colleagues, Obama isn’t very impressive at all. I had a friend in college (I went away to school) who was from a sub. of Boston & she always spoke about how r@cist the south was. When I went with her to see the Head of the Charles I was struck by the fact that there was no black people in her town (or at least not in HER neighborhood). This has struck me about a lot of cities in this country — the obvious segreg@tion that simply does not exist in NOLA. In turn, when she came with me to NOLA for Mardi Gras her reaction to “all the black people” was the r@cist thing I’ve ever seen. I mean! “They” lived right next door! I suspect that many “liberal” whites (including the poster who shall not be named) are like this friend of mine from college — they simply don’t know what they are talking about because if they actually knew a lot of black people they would know that AA come in a variety of classes (not all people got suckered into subprime lending are black, my dear) and, more importantly, all characters.

  24. Site admin — I fixed my comment to not get put in moderation (I used the word r@cist 3 x) Please delete those comments so I’m not a chatterer. Thanks.

  25. Oh, please. So any truth that happens to be a truth that the right wing also sees is automatically a lie, regardless of the actual merits of it.

    If Karl Rove said that the sky is blue, we are all supposed to deny it vehemently and scream “NO! It’s green!” so as to prove we are not “repeating right wing frames”?

    We’ve said repeatedly on here that the CRA was a good idea that went bad due to lack of oversight and corruption. And do you want to know WHY it went bad? Because of PRECISELY the sort of attitude that anglachel just demonstrated!

    The corruption and fraud and bad business practices could have been rooted out long ago, if not for the fact that ALL CRITICISM of their practices, and those of Fannie and Freddie, became seen as an attack on minority and poor communities. If people had been allowed over the past years to freely criticize and hold accountable without being called r@cist, we would not be in this mess now, and perhaps the CRA and Fannie and Freddie would today be accomplishing their goals in an above-board and fiscally sound way.

    These idiots do not get that shielding an organization from criticism BECAUSE they are trying to right class and racial wrongs does no favors to the poor and minority communities they serve in the long run. It creates corruption, which in the end screws the people. Posts like anglachel’s are the REASON oversight that was sorely needed was not done.

  26. angienc – you little “chatterer” you!

  27. You’re more than welcome, BB. I mainly lurk here but I read just about every post and I haven’t detected a hint or ra*cism. I’m so damned sick of people using accusations of ra*cism as a mere tool to crush dissent or attack perceived enemies. I have agreed with anglachel in the past (though I find her a bit too verbose and heavy-handed for my tastes) but she’s gone way off the rails with this post.

  28. I love the title, “minds wide open, brains falling out.” LOL!

    Listen, when I complain about how the credit markit was opened up to everybody and how that has damaged the market, I’m not talking about minorities. I’m talking about people like my 8 yr old daughter who receives credit card applications. I’m talking about my white neighbors who make 30,000 a yr and got a home loan for 275,000 dollars. Yes, they’re now in foreclosure. I’m talking about ads that say “no credit, no problem.”

  29. FOX during ACORN

  30. ACORN is not guilty of anything – it is their employees.

  31. Her essay seems to suggest that PUMAs are nothing more than a band of ra*cists and has managed to tar the Confluence with the same brush simply for addressing an issue that has far reaching ramifications. Citing the ridiculousness of Digby’s comments and suggesting that the Confluence swims in the same waters is an attempt to complete the argument. Digby saw ra*cism where none existed.

    Suggesting any criticism of ACORN is an attempt to inject ra*cism into the argument is specious. Bad management, voter fraud, misappropriation of funds which led to indictments in some states are facts. Why is this considered ra*cist if we question just where and how public money is being spent?

  32. I think it was a good thing that Clinton opened up home loans to low-income people and minorities. The better off more people are, the better off the whole country and economy is. But it’s after he left that Republicans used and abused that to make a buck. Regulation, oversight, accountability.

  33. Xeno

    my partner is black. we saw the video Anglchel is referring too. also a few days ago it was a different video circulating. ah yes the one with the CEO of the Fannie Mae and the black caucus. we sent this to friend in OH.

    immediately she screamed racism …. and negated the videos in the same way like Anglachel. her response was that both videos r right-wing POV, and that Reps started deregulation

    democrats: accuse reps of POV

    reps: accuse the left of POV

    it is becoming a baseless generalization and just another stereotype

    while i totally agree that reps started deregulations …. and maybe in most cases they r the devil, the DEMs demonstrated in the past few months that they r in the same class with the REPs. at least, the Reps r fighting the Dems.

    the Dems r fighting their own base. sad.

  34. Digby is a r*cist. Look back to the post regarding the LA earthquake and the statement “no white women” were missing. Disgusting.

  35. Oops, hit the wrong button.

    This discussion raises some concerns I’ve had lately. I am troubled by a tendency to throw every person and organization under the bus, if they are for Obama – politicians, celebrities, NOW, Planned Parenthood, the ACLU (when it seems to be taking up a cause in his favor) etc. I will not throw my Obama supporting friends under the bus, nor every person/group that supports him. I will question their judgment, however.

    I don’t see RD or any of the regular posters here as r@cist. or knowingly tossing out “dog whistles.” I have seen the occasional broad brush of groups including African Americans assuming that everyone thinks the same.

    That said, I respect deeply riverdaughter’s commitment to well reasoned action as well as thought on this blog. I also greatly respect the efforts to resist spreading lies and rumors. People here are very good at linking to sources and as myiq2xu said publishing corrections when appropriate.

    I also appreciate kenoshaMarge’s reminder that no one can expect to find any one site that is totally compatible with one’s thoughts. Disagreements without name calling, are often beneficial. I learn much here.

    The fact that there is a link to Anglachel’s Journal here says a lot about RD’s magnanimity and I applaud it.

  36. I just read (or tried to read) Anglachel’s post. It wasn’t easy with my eyes glazing over. She certainly can’t be accused of conciseness. And IMO she comes off as shrill. Talk about dog whistles!

  37. I take it as a badge of honor that I have been banned from Corrente…one directly because of reference to Michelle and Barack Obama’s playing of the “victim” card (specifically a literary reference to “Camille”)…

    and a sudden, second time for reasons unknown….

    They come off my blogroll as of now…

  38. From the post in question:

    Just as I’m not particularly interested in discussing Democratic leadership failures, I am not interested in Raines’ very real management failures (and possible corruption) as the head of Fannie Mae. The current Republican interest with Raines has more to do with his color and connections to the Clintons, and how that can be exploited, than with his alleged corruption.

    Well, if you throw those things out, then obviously you have no basis to object to anything except right-wing ratfucking reasons.

    That’s a pretty dishonest way to argue. I think most Republicans are more Reagonomics-oriented than r*cist, personally. But hey, what do I know. I’m just a r*cist myself, apparently.

  39. We are losing our way.

  40. “I think it was a good thing that Clinton opened up home loans to low-income people and minorities. The better off more people are, the better off the whole country and economy is. But it’s after he left that Republicans used and abused that to make a buck. Regulation, oversight, accountability.”

    Agree to a point, but the current crop of Democratic “leadership” sure didn’t watch over it well, and are now making excuses…and willing to keep up with this and the related corruption because they are following Obama…all things Obama…

  41. WMCB- God you are good. Thanks for saying it so much better than I could ever have.

  42. Thanks to the Oborg, and even some non-Oborg like Anglachel, tossing around the r**ism accusation so casually, “r**ist” will become about as effective an insult/accusation as “doo-doo head”.

    The Oborg use accusations of r**ism the way Joe McCarthy and his orcs used accusations of Communism.

  43. The entire Congressional Black Caucus voted no on the House bail-out bill because the ACORN giveaway had been stripped. Is it racist to point this out?

    I have never thought Anglachel nor Corrente had anything to say to me. They all seem to be poster children for liberal elitism. I never like how RD and others felt the need to bow down and worship their every word. Most of time she has been dead wrong. Her last half-baked theory is that Republicans were leading Dems into a trap over this bail-out.

    Now we are all racist because we call out Obama for being inexperienced and think people who can’t afford mortgages shouldn’t be allowed to take them out. If someone sees racism in that, doesn’t that make them a racist? It seems to imply that inexperienced=Black=”can’t afford”. No one is saying that. A white person who can’t afford a mortgage shouldn’t be approved either. To me, the anglachel post only reveals her own racist stereotypes.

  44. If I remember correctly, Anglachel mentioned in one of her posts that she had no use for the candidates and did not intend to vote for either of them.

  45. WMCB – That was very well said. Thank you.
    :-)

  46. Agree to a point, but the current crop of Democratic “leadership” sure didn’t watch over it well, and are now making excuses…and willing to keep up with this and the related corruption because they are following Obama…all things Obama…

    The current Dem congress are just as corrupt and complicit, I agree.

  47. There are those of us who sense Obama is just straight out dangerous. It is a knowledge based on the oldest forms of self preservation. It is the ability to sense what is not whole, what is not healthy. I am one of those people.

    There are those of us who have watched Obama’s behavior in dealing with the primaries and dealing with Hillary Clinton, in particular. His behavior has been unprofessional, unethical and distasteful. I am one of those people.

    There are those of us who have seen that Obama lacks the qualifications, the experience and the judgment to be President. I am one of those people.

    Those are three ways to approach the Obama candidacy and see that it is totally inappropriate for America.

    If one is unable or unwilling to see any of these three glaring warnings about Obama, then one is incapable of seeing them. Period.

    Anglachel was one who said she saw he was inadequate to the task. But having boxed herself into a place where she could take no further action, she is spreading out into different areas to try and keep herself relevant to the political discourse.

    Racism is the tool that is being used to shut down bloggers. Other tools for other areas. I have felt warning signals towards her for a long time. As someone upstream (it is the Confluence after all) said
    when she took the hard line that all repubs were an unneccesary evil, she showed her lack of ability to seek creative solutions, to push herself to see others ways of dealing with a political crisis and invalidated the beliefs, thoughts, and concerns of half of the country.

    I enjoyed reading some of her stuff over a month ago.
    But haven’t been back in a long time. She has added nothing new to the discourse in a long time.

    And now because she seems to have nothing
    relevant to say, she is spewing garbage.

  48. But it’s after he left that Republicans used and abused that to make a buck.

    Statements like this are patently false. BOTH parties used and abused it to make a buck. Fannie and Freddie money flowed like water to DEMOCRATIC pockets, as well as Repub, and the Dems frankly have the edge on that one – more money to them.

  49. By request….Part 2 of Grail Guardian’s primer on Barack Obama’s associates is UP….greatly expanded list for reference now!!!

    Part 2–The Lineup: A Who’s Who of The Associates of Barack Obama

    I’m having trouble posting again here…please go to InsightAnalytical via the blogroll….

  50. I completely support opening up home loans to low-income people. But they need to be sweet deals, not this predatory lending cr@p. And there need to be programs in place to assist homeowners in times of stress (illness, accident, unemployment, etc.). And I’m guessing that such programs could have cost a lot less than $700 billion. If home ownership is a dream we want all Americans to share in, then it shouldn’t be a cash cow for the already wealthy.

  51. “The current Republican interest with Raines has more to do with his color and connections to the Clintons, and how that can be exploited, than with his alleged corruption.”

    So, what is the current Democratic interest with Raines? Is it color, connections to Clinton or corruption?

    I’m confused. I don’t care what color he is or who he got his job from. I only care about the corruption that may have taken place under his leadership – could you address that Anglachel with your infinite wisdom?

  52. madamab: Actually, I didn’t know until a couple of days ago that Raines was African-American. I just read about his disingenuous and ineffectual management practices in the NYTimes. When you read it online without pictures, everyone takes on the same color. I didn’t think he was playing straight about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when I read about it a few months ago. Am I suppose to excuse him now that I know he has more melanocytes than I do?
    Isn’t bad management and cowardice, bad management and cowardice no matter who does it? Or are some colors of people more responsible than others? I think we will come to regret the candidacy of Obama for decades to come. In his ruthlessness to win, he has exploited every stereotype that liberals have of African-Americans.
    It’s just a pigment, guys. It confers no special powers except modest sun protection.

  53. Did anyone see th einterview by Bill Moyers (I know, in the tank for Obama) with Sen. Ernest “Fritz” Hollings in which he argues that congresspeople necessarily spend too much time fundraising and campaigning in our current system?

    (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07252008/profile3.html

    Hiedi Li posted a statement from Ed O’Reilly that discusses something similar.

    http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/09/ed-oreilly-continues-to-use-his-voice—the-one-that-gained-him-a-third-of-the-massachusetts-democratic-primary-voters-on-se.html

    Would love to see one of the expert posters here do something on this.

  54. Listen y’all. I still love to read Anglachel but she is definitely a special breed of Democrat that I have probably never seen before. First of all, she is a Clinton Democrat. I don’t think she gives a sh*t about the presidential race anymore. She probably has a problem with the fact that most of us here have decided to vote for McCain either out of revenge or because some actually think he’s better than Obama. All she wants is that none of us actually use ra*cism or sexism to attack any candidate Democrat or Republican.

    Do I agree with her that the people at the Confluence are racist? No. Do I agree that she should take off The Confluence from her blogroll but still keep nasty Taylor Marsh on it? No way. But I just don’t think that it is worth even trying to influence Anglachel to do anything. She seems to be an extremely smart but stubborn person who isn’t easy to influence her to do anything once she’s made up her mind about something. I respect her opinions and think she makes great points everyday for the last year but that doesn’t mean that I haven’t seen some faults behind her cranky/snarky exterior. I say keep up what you’re doing at the Confluence. I had noticed earlier this week that the Confluence was no longer on her blogroll but didn’t want to mention anything until Riverdaughter figured it out herself. Just let Anglachel do her thing and keep her on our blogroll because she’s not going to come around to adding the Confluence or NoQuarter until we once again are fully behind a Democrat in office.

  55. Listen y’all. I still love to read Anglachel but she is definitely a special breed of Democrat that I have probably never seen before. First of all, she is a Clinton Democrat. I don’t think she gives a sh*t about the presidential r_a_ce anymore. She probably has a problem with the fact that most of us here have decided to vote for McCain either out of revenge or because some actually think he’s better than Obama. All she wants is that none of us actually use r_a_c_ism or sexism to attack any candidate Democrat or Republican.

    Do I agree with her that the people at the Confluence are r_a_c_ist? No. Do I agree that she should take off The Confluence from her blogroll but still keep nasty Taylor Marsh on it? No way. But I just don’t think that it is worth even trying to influence Anglachel to do anything. She seems to be an extremely smart but stubborn person who isn’t easy to influence her to do anything once she’s made up her mind about something. I respect her opinions and think she makes great points everyday for the last year but that doesn’t mean that I haven’t seen some faults behind her cranky/snarky exterior. I say keep up what you’re doing at the Confluence. I had noticed earlier this week that the Confluence was no longer on her blogroll but didn’t want to mention anything until Riverdaughter figured it out herself. Just let Anglachel do her thing and keep her on our blogroll because she’s not going to come around to adding the Confluence or NoQuarter until we once again are fully behind a Democrat in office.

  56. RD – I also did not know that Raines was AA. I kept seeing this picture of some guy with Barney Frank. I finally realized who it must be because of the fact that Frank benefited so much from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    I find it infuriating that so many people on both sides practice mind-reading. That is a truly disingenuous way of arguing. They did it to Clinton constantly, attributing the most nefarious motives to her most innocuous statements.

    If you can’t make the case with what a person actually said and did, then you don’t have a case. Period.

  57. OT — Did McCain vote for the senate bill?

  58. I finally read Anglachael’s post. And put together with Ifill’s unprofessional response, I concluded that we’ll see more of it as arrogance once again is the word.
    I posted a comment saying I inoculated myself through confession

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/i-am-a-racist/

    And I don’t expect it to make it on the blog anymore than my prior comments – as I am a PUMA

  59. It is our own frustration and disappointment in the current DNC that has led us to this blog. At heart, we are still Democrats who recognize that what has been done in tribute to one candidate has dishonored us as a whole. We are not Republicans, fanatics, rac*cists, or malcontents. We reside here because we have been disenfranchised and because we still firmly believe in fairness and what our party once stood for.

    Today we find ourselves on the outside looking in. We have not climbed aboard a bus that leads to Obamanation. We question. We discuss. We fight to uphold the right to decide. If that makes us ra*cist I am in a state of disbelief. This is not about the color of one’s skin, it is about “handing over” a nomination to one who is unqualified to bear that title.

    I truly fear for this country if any form or criticism is being ranked in the most pervasive form of crushing dissent. Apparently we are still supposed to just sit here and shut up. Go along to get along while the nation limps onward toward disaster.

  60. votermom, I believe that both Obama and McCain voted in favor.

  61. And don’t tell me that the Dems haven’t been playing race politics for years. I am so sick of the partisan Reps bad Dems good mentality. I thought the blinders had been thrown off this primary, but I guess some people didn’t notice the corruption the way I did. Dems have been using racial fears to keep the AA vote for years. Come to my neck of the woods and I’ll tell you the story of the Duke Lacrosse rape trial in Durham, when AA and white Dem politicians were enflaming racial fears and hatred right beofe the election even though they already knew the rape charges were bogus. Where was the outrage by the liberal elite of Chapel Hill to that? Guess what? There was none. The prevailing attitude among liberals here was that there MUST have been something to the story. It’s just that like always the white man goes unpunished. It is disgusting the kind of hateful race games Dems play to score political points, and the way Dem voters let them get away with it because they just want to beat the Republicans.

  62. I truly fear for this country if any form or criticism is being ranked in the most pervasive form of crushing dissent. Apparently we are still supposed to just sit here and shut up. Go along to get along while the nation limps onward toward disaster.

    This is EXACTLY what the Dem leadership wants from us.

    Or, as I wrote a while ago, “Dear PUMAs: Stop Paying Attention!

  63. audacity

    My sister and I both saw that video and were disgusted by it. Not by the repugs who were questioning Raines and calling for oversight, but by the CBC members who were very openly race-baiting them with loaded accusations of “lynching” a Black man in a congressional hearing room. They very deviously and skillfully turned the focus from Raines’s (probably criminal) mismanagement of Fannie Mae to the issue of race, thereby derailing any possibility of regulating the mortgage giant and averting the catastrophe we now face. All the dems on that committee disgraced themselves and participated in the destruction of the global economy. If there were justice in this world, they would all be run out of DC by a populace enraged by their incompetence.

    Ra*cism is not at the back of every criticism leveled at a Black person. Sometimes, as in the case of Raines, the criticism arises from incompetence and/or criminality, factors which have nothing to do with race. In fact, isn’t the attempt to shield Black officials from routine scrutiny merely a subtle manifestation of ra*cism itself? Holding 0bama, Raines, or any other Black politician or executive to a lower standard than officials of other races is just as damaging in the long term as more obvious ra*cial discrimination. It’s paternalism and patronization disguised as open-mindedness and fairness.

  64. Disenfrancised Voter
    Much as I like Anglachael’s writing, calling me a racist pretty much ends the conversation. It’s how Obama lost me too when I was entertaining the thought of maybe supporting him.
    And to make it clear, while my name wasn’t mentioned, I am a PUMA, a Conflucian and do believe that corruption connected with Fannie and Freddie created this crisis.
    Just like before, when Obama didn’t call me by name , but as a white woman supporting Hillary, a baby boomer, and not a rich one – I felt pointed at many times

  65. Disenfranchisedvoter: No, trusting type that I am, I had no idea that she had removed me from the blogroll. She certainly didn’t mention it to me when I sent her an invitation to join some of us PUMA and non-PUMA types in a conference call to discuss planning for reforming the party after the election. She might have mentioned it at the time. But I don’t go around checking to see how many blogrolls we are on. It has never been my habit to go chasing after the approval of others.
    I did wonder why she went off on that boring little tangent of affirmative action posts about a month ago. It seems almost to have been lecturing to us but I just chalked it up to her completely missing the point. She was preaching to the choir when she should have been directing her fire elsewhere.
    We aren’t removing her from the blogroll. She’s intelligent and has knowledge of a political science nature that I don’t. That wasn’t my field of study, so she is a useful reference. But I have to say I am completely appalled by her attitude towards PUMAs. She might as well be calling us “those people”.
    I don’t think either Clinton see us as “those people”.

  66. I feel like crying.

  67. I worked as an advocate in poverty law for ten years. What I have seen, is not praying on a particular race, but praying on low income people in general. Predatory lenders are not out searching for the people who have golden parachute clauses in the contracts.

    The Democratic Party, IMHO, has been predatory this election cycle. I have read that 90% of AA’s will vote for Barack Obama. Perhaps it is believed that he will somehow make lives better and I think that they have been lead to believe he will. But the bottom line is, HE CANNOT. As POTUS, he will have to deal with all Americans fairly and to lead one particular race to believe that he can solve their problems simply because there is a slight resemblance is ridiculous. I have stated over and over, not to just to my AA friends, but to all my friends, that he is not in touch with lower income people. How could he be? He has been packaged and sold to the American people as a product, and I am not interested in the new and improved dem party, I want the one that worked for all of us.

  68. I also wanted to say that I absolutely agree with your post Riverdaughter. I think a lot of bloggers including Anglachel think they are too cool and snarky to dirty their hands with PUMA which might not be as intellectual but refuses to sit on the sidelines when they can be out protesting and doing something to punish the DNC and Obama for their bad behavior. I don’t know what they were expecting. Did these bloggers think that everyone was going to just sit at home in November and calmly discuss why we are took good to vote for either candidate? Sorry but human nature doesn’t work that way. Also, I know that Anglachel hates Republicans. I don’t blame her. But NoQuarter often makes great points and there are times when Democrats are no better than Repugs if not worse because their party embodies a certain set of principles while our leadership betrays us and does something else. At least the Repugs attempt to pander to their base even if their beliefs are f*cked up. Anglachel has every right to sit on the sidelines and just be snarky on her blog, but I hope she comes around to respecting other Clinton Democrats who feel the need to do more. I don’t think it’s a big deal that PUMA links to her blog. It’s not like we even know who she is.

  69. Good morning everyone!!

    WTF is going on – why is usually smart Anglachel quoting Mandos who’s a crazed Obama-loon?

    Again, DakiniKat’s post had NOTHING r*cist about it, she explained & broke down the reality of the situation. Predatory lending exists – no doubt and Acorn was a middleman for it.

    Should federal funding exist to help minorties buy homes? YES!

    Should minorities be preyed upon & bamboozled to buying a home that has more jacked ARMs than usual while Wall street skates to the bank with all the high interest of these loans? NO.

  70. Xeno, on October 2nd, 2008 at 9:06 am Said:

    Well said. It is a difficult place we’re in. R@cism, sexism, classism – are all potential prejudices that we carry. I think it’s the open discussion about these that is lacking.

  71. False accusations of racism, like appeals to patriotism, are the last refuge of a scoundrel. Except when they’re the first refuge of a scoundrel. Or the only refuge of a scoundrel.

  72. Excellent riverdaughter. These bloggers and talking heads are doing an
    enormous harm to society by agressively labeling any criticism
    of the Obama campaign and his associates as “racism” while sitting
    on their sanctimonious self-rightious high horses. Racism is real but
    they are indiscriminitaly applying such a label and thus cheapen it.
    On the other extreme sexism seems to be a permissible “ill” which
    “noone” notices and is escily dismissed with a laugh….

    To all these bloggers and talking heads: have you no shame? This will backfire because fair, open minded, honest people do not like to be labeled.

    It is time for them to look for the real reasons why Obama is such a problematic and flawed candidate whether he wins or not. I suggest
    asking yourselves (bloggers) whether your inspiration is named Wright and you would have been happy to accept a job from someone named Ayers.

  73. madamab, exactly, that is what this is all about. Any criticism of a Black politican is racist. Any criticism of a Dem means you are a Republican troll.

    Oh and by the way Obama will reach across the aisle and unite everyone.

  74. Pat, what’s up?

  75. Hey, I’ve been saying this for months. I don’t know why anyone from corrente is even allowed to post here anymore. Lambert shows up every other day to promote a post of his latest whine about whatever has his underwear in a bunch, while the rest of the koolente crowd becomes more and more deranged by the day. They should definitely be exed off the blogroll imo. Yet, as you say, I dare Lambert to name one concrete thing he has actually ever doneabout anything he drones on and on about…that goes for anglachel as well.

    Here’s the deal, as it becomes more and more likely (at least in their heads) that Obama will win, they want to save face and be able to jump back on the kool-aid express and be part of the elite blogger clique (although they might want to ask taylor marsh how that might work out for them, although she was always trailer trash to them anyway). So in the end their narcissitic elitism will push them back into the arms of the likes of Josh Marshall, and Digby, and all the other fauxgressive hypocrites who they think know what’s best for all of us democrats. Here’s my message to all of them: GO FUCK YOURSELVES.

    As for racist dogwhistles, I’d like anglachel to address her own homophobia if she hasn’t seen the RAMPANT sexism and homophobia we’ve been subjected to over the last year. Let leah at corrente see the hate mail i get calling me all sorts of names(from people who claim to be african american, no less). FUCK THEM. If they hear dogwhistles, I hear fucking Sirens blasting. But of course racism is king of the hill when it comes to victimization, especially if you’re a priveleged WHITE intellectual….I’ve got to go….I’m done with this BULLSHIT.

  76. I think that Anglachel’s mindset is very simplistic. If you don’t support the Democrat, you must be a Republican and agree with everything they represent.

    Does she not realize that about a third of the country considers itself Independent? Where does that fit into her little paradigm?

    Ya know, maybe we are just Democrats whose party has left us.

  77. SM: Not just minorities, but all people should be able to buy a home. But the home should be one that they CAN afford to purchase. I know how much I make and how much I can spend. If I go out and purchase a house, that I cannot afford, should I be allowed to scream sexism?

  78. sm77:

    “”WTF is going on – why is usually smart Anglachel quoting Mandos who’s a crazed Obama-loon?””

    Money and the chance access and elevation in a “future” Obama adm.

    The same happened to Jeralyn Merritt at Talk-Left the minute she
    came back from Denver. Merritt trashed her brand by selling out her
    objectivity and become a police for the Obama campaign trashing
    and silencing any criticisms of him. Scary behavior for an open society.

  79. It is far easier to tilt at the windmill of racism than to fight enemies of democracy. One requires little sacrifice, the other can require the sacrifice of everything and takes strong dedication. In our darkest hour this year, I found the Confluence a feeble light of Truth that keeps growing brighter the harder critics try to blow it out.

    This is one “political disagreement” we must win if we want to keep living in the same country our Founding Fathers created for us. And childish antics deserve childish answers: The Obamas did it first!

  80. riverdaughter, just reading your response above. I’m sorry you had to find out this way. I would usually just click on The Confuence from her blogroll to get here so I was probably one of the first to notice that she took this site off. She only did it about a week ago. Yes, keep her on the blogroll but if she doesn’t want anything to do with this site, don’t even link to her anymore in your posts. I assume that you have had more contact with her than most of us and might even know her real name. She could have at least sent your a private email about her feelings rather than berating you in a post. I’m glad you know now because it’s been bothering me for a week that she could take down this site but keep TalkLeft and even worse Taylor Marsh. I realize that she probably disagrees but is willing to put up with the lies from them because they are still Democrats. Sorry, but I lose respect for anyone who has more respect for Taylor Marsh than Riverdaughter. I lose some respect for Anglachel the day I found out that she’d rather have her visitors reading the trash on TM over the Confluence.

  81. Your responses are all so right on and articulate.

    So, let me just say this:

    Sometimes “Bitch”
    IS
    a
    “Bad Thing”

  82. Everyone,

    A lot of people were in moderation, probably because of using the words “racist” or “racism.” You can try using r*cist or r*cism instead to fool the filter. It is never personal when one of your posts goes into moderation. We don’t have complete control of what wordpress chooses to flag.

  83. as it becomes more and more likely (at least in their heads) that Obama will win, they want to save face and be able to jump back on the kool-aid express and be part of the elite blogger clique

    I agree. The irony is that if Obama becomes president, after the first 3 to 6 month honeymoon, his admin will be so blatantly corrupt that half the cool blogs are going to be saying “We never trusted him anyway, we were secret PUMAs all along.” I can just see that happening.

    And the other half of the cool blogs will be saying it’s all Hillary and the PUMAs fault that Pres. Obama is corrupt. (No it won’t make sense but they’ll say it anyway)

  84. Have to post and run, but this is really disappointing from Anglachel. Mandos post was not half so brilliant as she makes out, it’s only to underscore her own badly supported point that she keeps saying that.

    This idea that Democrats can’t be called out for their own corruption as long as it originated from ‘good’ motives is crap.

    The other really crap thing worthy of the ‘creative class’ is taking statements in isolation and using them to slap labels like ‘racist’ on a whole group. It’s one of the biggest intellectual cheats among the creative class, bloggerboyz, Big Orange etc — it’s lazy and only meant to aggrandize the writer/speaker, as they get to elevate themselves above all the nasty, lower people.

    And demographically, it’s the same thing she’s complaining of in her post — I’d bet big money that the readership of the Confluence is a d*mn sight closer to economic classes of this country as a whole (ie, people whose worries the last 2 weeks haven’t been about whether a 100k fdic cap is sufficient to protect their checking account) than her readership or Mandos.

  85. Some people want to be part of a party because they agree with the ideals of the party, some people just want to be part of something and feel validated. To me, the Dems have shown that they have no principles or ideals to which they still aspire, and I am not interested in joining something just to be validated.

    I am not a Democrat anymore, and I will have nothing to do with anyone who is going to play race politics. Whether or not you support Affirmatice Action, the Supreme court has struck it down, so the point is moot.

  86. Can someone get me out of moderation?

  87. I was uncomfortable with the post I think Anglachel is referring to but I have no standing here so I didn’t say anything about it. I think the source of the misinformation that started the discussion here was that r*cist Rethuglican propaganda video “Burning Down the House”. It looked legitimate unless you really studied it or had experience in banking and mortgage lending, which I do but most don’t. That video was linked in many liberal blogs by either those who didn’t know any better or ratf*ckers. I saw ideas taken from it in many posts and comments. The fact that the video started with blaming Carter and Clinton for the CRA, good Democratic legislation, should have been the warning that the rest was suspect. Since he ended his video by attacking Obama, it reinforced the idea that he was on our side and that sucked prople in. We are all very wrung out emotionally and are not always using our rational brains. It’s been a long and trying year. There’s a lot of good info about the CRA on the web including articles refuting the idea that it caused the subprime meltdown for anyone that’s interested.
    Sorry if my comment’s a bit disjointed-I could write more but that’s probably the gist of it. I think Anglachel was correct about what she read but I think she is wrong if she attributes bad intent to those who have been misled. This financial crisis we’re dealing with is a very complex topic and misunderstandings about various aspects are to be expected. I think we can minimize the negativity if we can grasp the idea that it can’t be blamed on any individual or group. It’s just another indication of how our country has gone off course and how our govenment continues to fail us. We need Hillary, gd it!

  88. and Angry Black Guy, go FUCK YOURSELF TOO you are not going to be allowed to post YOUR racist, sexist rants here EVER, so why bother?

  89. Riverdaughter, the title of your post sums it all up.

    I lurk here often, post occasionally and I have to say I disagree with the recent mind numbing assertion of a certain someone that usually has decent insight.

    The truth is the truth is the truth. With all of the deception going on within the Democratic Party, on behalf of a man with an uncertain stand on Democratic issues, questionable ties, and down right mean spirited supporters that think that the means justify the end, I think that exercising our freedom of speech to question what is going on is patriotic.

    With the media in complicit in this deal, I grow even more concerned. The media gave us Bush Jr, the Iraq war, trashed Hillary Clinton’s character by repeating, almost verbatim, Obama’s recycled right wing talking points and now wants us to let them give us a new version of Bush III.

    IMO, we are fighting the corporate take over of our party and our country. That is not r@cist. We are fighting for democratic ideals, we want to preserve our freedoms, we want to know who is running our country. To me, that is the patriotic and correct thing to do.

    Thank you for being here and bringing all of these great writers and thinkers together!

  90. Xeno

    i remember it was Meeks-NY who made those comments. actually all his attitude and comments were deplorable.

    i my previous post i forgot to mention the chiefs of that hearing session were the 2 WHITE crooks, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. actually, barney is the chief/head of the committee whose members r maxine Waters, Meeks and the others.

    i remember my partner made a comment about Maxine, saying that looks like she got a report from Fannie and Freddie and she did not read it. i responded that obviously she had time to write her speech for the commission …. as u remember she was reading every line. or maybe one of her assistants just wrote the standard meme

  91. votermom, you remind me of something I wnated to say yesterday. To everyone who is so ready to throw off the name of PUMA, if Obama wins the PUMA brand will become a very powerful symbol to rally around, because it is synonymous with opposition to BO.

  92. My father used to tell me, “If it is not true, why get angry? If it’s true, why get angry?” Can anyone keep another from accusing one of “racism”? Unfortunately not.

    But I have observed that often, those who have been criticized, find it a lot easier to hurl this accusation because it is a lot easier on their egos; instead of accepting that perhaps it is because they were simply obnoxious or they have done or said something stupid. I have also heard this: “there is no cure for stupidity.”

    A good conscience; confidence in one’s own integrity, awareness of the judgement of a “Higher Authority” than mere mortals, should be an effective antidote to false accusations. But sometimes, it is disappointing to have certain actions coming from people who should know better. So,

    GOOD MORNING PUMAS! COUNTRY FIRST!

  93. I agree with you Gary (although by some miracle I was spared the homophobia–I caught a glimpse of it once, but never enough to be really repulsed. I am sorry to hear that Anglachel was dealing in that crap. I must have missed the posts where that happened).
    I have felt twinges of Taylor Marsh disorder in Anglachel’s work– a little more skillfully disguised in the obtuse language she at times enjoys dressing herself in.
    I think she is positioning herself for traffic in the era of Obama. As such, that opportunism right there makes me want to puke.
    Oh well, like I say, I grew bored with her. As the passion of purpose leaked from her work, all that was left was the dry pages of a political science textbook.

  94. purplefin: How can we be labeled something as egregious as ra*cist when we are not? Where do we even fit in anymore? After all these years of blind loyalty my eyes have been opened this year to the perfidity of my own party and that in itself was a deep wound.

    Riverdaughter has made this blog a sanctuary of sorts. She has laid down ground rules. No unsupported charges. No ra*cism. No ridicule of one another. No gossip, just facts. This blog is a colorful assortment of people from all walks of life. I manage to learn something new everyday. Our arguments and statements are dissected but always in a gentle manner. Ra*cist statements are banned. It is confusing that someone who I have admired for her sharp analysis has smeared us to this extent.

    If I thought for one minute that this blog harbored “code” for ra*cial putdowns I would be long gone as would many others. There is simply no place for incindiary statements on this site. Facts are what we uphold.

    Our criticisms are aimed at both parties but in particular those in each party who have dishonored our trust. Where are we headed? What was the purpose of this smear? We may not always agree with each and every statement but we are allowed the privilege of open discussion. I guess I have been set off my feet after this egregious effort to paint us as something we are not.

    It saddens me to no end.

  95. I think the problem is being out of touch with the problems that are facing real people. Simply voting for someone who is a member of a minority does not make you instantly in touch. It is bullshit. I have mixed race grandchildren and yes, there are still people out there who will give you the look. I hope that will change someday, for the sake of all of us. Barack Obama is not the answer and from someone who has been given this look before, I think he may be part of the problem.

  96. Anglachel is a HOUND

  97. “What was the purpose of this smear” is a really good question, Pat.

  98. I’m black and I just sent in my absentee ballot in Virginia for McCain. I don’t like Obama. In fact, I think he is unfit to be POTUS. That doesn’t make me racist. Voting for someone just because of their race IS racist.

  99. Gary,

    I love you. I really do. Both you and Mawm are able to see clearly, probably because of the blatant discrimination you have experienced. Frankly, we all probably suffer from unconscious racism, but I know what I have done in my life to address racism. I know how I have felt in my heart about racial descrimination since I first became aware of it when I was a child. I won’t let anyone else make that judgement of me.

    I’m sorry that Anglachel has chosen to throw her lot in with the likes of Jerelyn Merritt, Taylor Marsh (both utter sellouts), and “Mandos.” But that is the choice she made and she will have to live with the consequences in terms of damage to her own credibility.

    Like Gary, I know who I am and what I am. I won’t let other people’s judgement determine my opinions and beliefs. I will not vote for Obama, and it has nothing to do with the color of his skin. I’m not going to change my mind and vote for him because his skin is a certain color anyway. Race is nothing but a social construction. I’d rather focus on the content of people’s characters.

  100. i metnioned the Anglachel comment on NoQ. and RD’s response

    one blogger’s comment

    Her blog must not be getting enough traffic these days.

  101. I don’t read Anglachel too much, agree with the poster who saw her as in love with her theories and not stopping to check with reality–it’s way easy when you can type fast. ;)

    and this is exactly right, Xeno:
    In fact, isn’t the attempt to shield Black officials from routine scrutiny merely a subtle manifestation of ra*cism itself? Holding 0bama, Raines, or any other Black politician or executive to a lower standard than officials of other races is just as damaging in the long term as more obvious ra*cial discrimination. It’s paternalism and patronization disguised as open-mindedness and fairness.

    It’s a special class of justice, affirmative action justice, lower standards, and a type of classism. But apparently this class that expects all bars lowered for them is fairly large and entrenched in our society.

  102. Please be polite when referring to Anglachel.

  103. angelasmith, my point on homophobia is that African Americans have been given a giant PASS when it comes to homophobia due to the RACIST notion that their victimhood is more important. That’s why Obama is not called out for his associations with Kmiec, Meeks, McClurkin, and all his other homophobic friends. That’s why Donna Brazile can say that calls for gay rights is an “affront” to the civil rights movement. So she sees a dog whistle. Listen up anglachel, fuck you!! I’ve been dealing with that shit all my life, and now I’m supposed to feel bad because some white elitist fuckwad thinks black people might get their feelings hurt???? FUCK THAT. If you are going to be starting this discussion expect people to stand up to you and say NO, we are not racist, we believe in equality, and we believe that using victimhood to score points is wrong. I’m through with the lot of them. I’m done blogging, I’m done with politics, and I’m done with all this bullshit. Let them have their little emperor…I’m getting the fuck out of this backwater banana republic asap.

  104. I’m guessing the “purpose of the smear” (and this is very likely an unconscious motivation) is to be more closely aligned with what Anglachel perceives as the intellectual “in crowd.” It is very revealing of Anglachel’s own character.

  105. There are ra cis ts no doubt. However, when it comes to legislation regarding parity of opportunity between various “groups” the issue for Reps is to what extent can it be measured accurately by examining outcomes. And, if there should be a disparity, how does one best remedy said disparity? Whether or not that is tantamount to being r a cist misses the main thrust of the Rep position. To whatever extent race plays a roll, it more and more seems that there is a preoccupation with it, which impedes progress in addressing and solving the important issue: that of parity.

    Whether smart or not, being wrong is equal opportunity.

    I never read her blog, but I am sorry to see so many people losing friends. I very much empathize. All the best.

  106. Here’s interesting news: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-blogs/ajc/politicalinsider/entries/2008/10/01/has_the_obama_surge_begun_near.html. It’s a report on a release by the Georgia Sec’y of State re: early votes received that is being spun as an Obama surge. The comments are interesting too. African Americans, who have traditionally voted Democratic, are slammed by some commenters as r@cist b/c they voted for Obama. Then it went the other way. Whites are r@cist b/c they don’t. I thought it apropos of this discussion. Basically, one can read r@cism into the nooks and crannies of political opinions, or one can take things at face value and presume that fair minded people of all colors can THINK and CHOOSE freely.

    Of course, I hope Obama loses Georgia bigtime in the final tally, because of all the reasons Conflucians understand all too well.

  107. Gary,

    I absolutely agree with you. I think the time really may have arrived when African Americans need to reject Affirmative Action and other such government programs. It is beyond shocking to see so much descrimination against gays in a community that should be able to see clear what is happening. More and more, I’m beginning to see that the arguments of Shelby Steele about white guilt make a great deal of sense.

  108. Gary, I figured that’s what you meant right after I wrote my post. Yes, there is only one dog whistle out there it seems. Please don’t be done with blogging. Voices of sanity are sorely needed.

  109. Ancglachel’s heart is in the right place, and she is one of the smartest and most insightful bloggers I ahve ever had the pleasure to read.

    But she is wrong this time.

    Please don’t impute bad motives or a hidden agenda to her. Operate under the assumption that she is mistaken, but still right more often than not.

  110. I think that with anglachel as with many other Democrats/Liberals (Taylor Marsh -Jerralyn Merrit) it is simply partisanship. They are head to toe Democrats and their hatred of Republicans (rat-fuckers anyone?) is so deep they cannot actually focus rationally.

    If you live with the mindset that all Republicans are bad and all Democrats are better then your point of view is eternally skewed. I recognize the symptoms having suffered from them for a very long time.

    Today I am an Independent and that leaves me free to vote for who ever I believe will best represent my issues. I am also a devout Gynocrat so any woman, anywhere, of either party, gets my vote until we have the 30% solution. I think that is what’s best for my gender and my country.

    I would have voted for McCain/Palin but after he pandered to the fear-mongering majority I will now vote for McKinney and get to vote for two “isms” at the same time.

  111. Why should the r@cism accusations come as any surprise. It is been a continuous mode of attack used by Obama supporters, bloggers, and DNCers since the primaries. Sen. Clinton and President Bill Clinton have been called r@cists too.

    This is just a way to shame people into voting for Obama. As if voting for Obama will absolve the USA of current and past r@cism. All this really does is chill free speech and create more r@cial tension.

  112. And before I rush out the door, let me say this: This election is not over. Obama has not won yet. We need to take this one day at a time. November 5 is more than a month away, and a lot can happen in politics in a month. Let’s worry about Obama being president if it actually happens, not right now.

  113. I am just jumping on after seeing at NoQ that both sites have been accused of racism by Anglachel for posts regarding ACORN. Unbelievable. I love the heading of your post Riverdaughter. People have really lost their minds. I will catch up and then post, but after reading your work for months, to accuse you of racism is beyond ridiculous. I stand with you Riverdaughter, proudly.

  114. Pat, thanks for your eloquent explanation.

    Here’s another dilemma that I face. I feel as if I am part of the resistance to a corporate controlled world. As such I feel at risk, but necessarily so. And I’m not particularly courageous.

    As for Anglachel’s comments, I think they have been well analyzed by RD and the commenters here. We have to consider the source and where she’s coming from. Again no need to throw her under the bus, but yes, her post is a great disappointment. Seems like she threw us under the bus – it’s the baby/bathwater thing.

  115. bb – you should take back your statement that we all suffer from unconcious r*cism. That is over the top.

  116. myiq2xu,

    Sometimes even really well meaning and good hearted people have unconscious motives. In fact we all have them. I think that is true in Anglachel’s case. I base that on comments I have read by her at Corrente.

  117. Gary, Mawn and Co. I want to cheer u up:

    yesterday i went to the Farmer’s Market, at the Civic Center, downtown San Francisco. at one end of the strip, there was a little table with Obama/Bidet buttons, one guy sitting and one running around screaming propaganda.

    they saw me and the asked me to come pick a button. i said NAYYYYY

    when they saw my partner next to me, the guy said: we have rainbow buttons.

    i responded: i’m color blind.
    ——

    at the other end of the strip it was a larger booth with Democrats for Obama?Bidet ’08

    all the team had BLACK T-shirts, with the following graphic from top to bottom

    OBAMA’08
    a silhouette of the Golden Gate Bridge
    obama logo

    i could not stop myself to tease them so i said

    Ohhhhhh, He is building a bridge

    they: YEAHHHHHHHHH for all of us

    me: is that the bridge to nowhere?!

    they: that’s the other side

    me: of the bridge?!

  118. Audacity: That one blogger’s response is probably the simpler and truer explanation. I was just wondering about the same thing. After all, Confluence has somehow caused those “blogstars” to fade: such traffic in a very short period of time from mostly insightful and rational humans and ‘country-first’ democrats, independents and republicans.

    In short, those other blogs and their residents are probably just E-N-V-I-O-U-S !
    So Riverdaughter, and all ye principals of this site, CELEBRATE! You deserve it!

  119. It is this election, it has brought out diviseness where there should be none, and I fear it will get worse, no matter who wins.

  120. Simply stated:

    We have a junior senator from Illinois on the verge of leapfrogging into the White House.

    This reads like a Hollywood script.

    ‘Nuff said.

  121. This is really a shame, RD you don’t deserve this at all.

    Excellent comments in this thread as well, I learn so much from you all.

    I live in a low income neighborhood and 10 years ago all the homes on my street had owners/renters. I am no economic genius by any stretch but all I have to do is look out my window to see what these fast and loose mortgage practices have wrought.

    Maybe there are 20 homes on my street and at least 8 of them are now empty. Some crumbling, some stripped of aluminum siding and copper piping/wiring.

    All abandoned and most owned by mortgage companies I’ve never heard of.

    All the good people who lived here are scattered to the winds now… black, white and hispanic. And my husband and kids and I now live in a sh*thole of a neighborhood. Is this the kind of investment we wanted?

    Maybe some of these who write and pontificate and somehow rise above this reality to find find racism and hear dog whistles need to come to my street and look around.

    This makes me so sad.

  122. Not exactly on topic, but close: Is Glen Ford at Black Agenda Report r@cist, too?

    “Obama’s party is wedded to Wall Street. At the local level the Democrats have long been the party of “developers” – the money bags who shape urban policy to fit the needs of corporations. These gentrifiers are the “Renaissance Men” that insist Black politicians earn their campaign and graft payments by helping to expel their own constituents from the cities, so as to make them more congenial to business. Betrayal starts at home.”

    http://www.blackagendareport.com

    Bailout Lesson: Capital Crisis Will Wreck Both Parties

  123. Until this election, if I didn’t like someone because of their views or actions, it was okay. There are AA’s out there I don’t like, there are gays I don’t like, there are dems I don’t like and women I don’t like. Doesn’t have a damn thing to do with their gender, r@ce, sexual orientation or politics. Now I am made to feel quilty because I don’t like the candidate my party selected. I don’t like BO, don’t trust him and it has absolutely nothing to do with race.

    myiq: I don’t know Anglachel, so I can’t say anything about her, other than I disagree with the post.

  124. Felizarte: agree. r u an artist?!

  125. I am a white male and a flaming heterosexual. IOW, I am a member of the political and social majority, the “privileged”

    I do not discriminate or consider myself superior. I don’t even feel privileged. I am rude and surly to everyone. That’s how I roll.

    Whenever I discuss rac*sm, sexIsm, homophobia or anything to do with a discriminated upon minority, I feel I have to tread carefully to avoid being labled a bigot.

    Obama’s Greatestest Speech on Race Evah was supposed to start a national discussion about race. The closest thing I ever saw was the comment threads involving Mandos and a couple others at Corrente, where it was proposed that most or all white people are rac*sts, even if they don’t think they are, because society is structurally rac*st (or some such bullshit)

    (Someone else earlier said I was blind to my rac*ism because of “white privilege”)

    Lambert admonished me to take a break because of my heated reaction.

  126. Carol, on October 2nd, 2008 at 9:40 am Said:

    bb – you should take back your statement that we all suffer from unconcious r*cism. That is over the top.

    ***********

    Carol, I think most of us do. For me I distinguish unconscious prejudice that people wish to ferret out and counter with prejudice (conscious or not) that people choose to foment. It’s the latter that is dangerous.

  127. soupcity: exactly, how many of these enlightened people have actually been to the neighborhoods to see what is happening? They are not enlightened, they just know how to put pen to paper and make it sound like they are.

  128. i just changed my screen name. from audacity

  129. If they want him it looks like they may very well have him. What he brings to the table is suspect and unknowable since he has had such a limited history of effectiveness.

    All criticism will be labeled ra*cist. Nothing will be questioned since access is the key. Since objectivity took a nosedive this election season I do not expect a resurrection anytime soon.

    There is nothing in this man that inspires confidence. Nothing that so far tells me that he is The One. Nothing that leads me to believe that he is a “man of the hour” since we are watching those hours evaporate in front of our eyes.

    We made the decision to jump off the cliff long before today. You get what you pay for. The price this time is simply too high.

  130. gary – calm down – divide and conquer – they win.

  131. Some easy conclusions:
    – No one can have watched Palin on Couric and honestly believe she is ready for the National stage. (Isn’t making blanket, undocumented statments fun???)
    – Lots of women defend/support her anyway (like lost of black people support and defend Obama despite his shortcomings)
    – Therefore It’s all about the plumbing ( I’m afraid to say vagina)-
    This brings into question the reason for their support of Hillary as well. (because, well, its ALWAYS her fault)

  132. I am against this bailout because I view it as a con. I think it is exactly the same as the lead up to the Iraq war. I remember so many Dems telling me that we had to invade Iraq. Now, it is impossible to find a Dem that supported the war.
    I predict the same will happen with this bail-out. Soon it will be impossible to find anyone who actually supported it, but in my opinion Clinton has two strikes against her now. She didn’t even fight to have protections for average homeowners in the bill. She mentioned it, but failed to include them and then voted for the bill anyway. Very weak showing by Clinton in my opinion. Hopefully the Reps in the house will help to defeat the bill again like they did Monday.

  133. Carol,

    OK, I’ll take it back then. I’ll just speak for myself and say I’m sure that I am unconsciously aware of the color of people’s skin and of all the messages I have received from a society that is saturated with racial messages. I have some awareness of the physical differences between different groups in society.

    I make a conscious effort every day of my life to see everyone the same, and I strongly believe that we are the same and should have equal rights and equal opportunities. And that goes for everyone of every race, color, nationality, religion, gender, and sexual preference. I hate descrimination in all it’s forms, and when African Americans descriminate (e.g., against gays), I hate that too. Racism is not just the province of European Americans, although we are the dominant group in society at the moment.

    Personally, I don’t think I have seen any comments here at the Confluence that I thought were racist–except sometimes in the spam filter. I love this blog, and I love all the people who post and comment here. This blog has been a lifesaver for me, and I don’t give any credence to what Anglachel said at all. She didn’t even back up her statement with evidence.

  134. Carol, Gary isn’t going to move away. I won’t let him. I love America and will fight to my last breathe to protect it from the Obamanation that wants to tear it down.

  135. purplefinn – now, you should stop labeling people r*cist. If you are, state that, but don’t include others that are willing to fight that label to the death.

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  136. myiq – I thought that speech was terrible. It was not about a national conversation, it was about saving his political career.

    Obama has been using his r*ce to his advantage this entire time. It has been a double play for him – with one hand, he beats down people who criticize him as r*cists, while with the other hand, he doles out statements like BitterCling to reassure white liberal elitists he is just as classist as they are.

    He is truly a terrifying and empty person. He believes in nothing except himself and his endless desire for power.

  137. I have to go as well, and truthfully I need to think through all of this before I post, but I need to say two things: 1. Gary, we need and love you. 2. No one loved the DNC more than I have in my 50 years. Giving up my party connection was very painful for me, but in doing so my eyes have been opened to the total hypocrisy of our political system. We are brave enough to say enough is enough. Those that cling to the Democratic brand despite its hollowness are frightened by our strength. PUMA Country before party. Peace and love. catch up later.

  138. The main thing that I have learned from this election is that all Democrats are not good and all Republicans are not bad and vice versa, the rest is just chatter. In the future nobody gets my vote just because they have a D, I , or R next to their name. I have been taking closer looks at ALL the candidates in ALL the races including judges. Some people that I thought I liked, after looking at their positions, I found that I couldn’t vote for them, and some people that I thought I could not vote for, after looking at their positions I found that I could vote for them. Unfortunately, for many it is still choosing the lesser of the two evils. But no politician should think that my vote is a given just because of party affiliation. They need to work for my vote.

    In the end, I have become an informed voter and I have to thank people like RD for that! You had the courage to question and stand up for ideals. Don’t let anyone belittle or try to shame you for questioning the DNC and Obama. You have educated voters and encouraged independent thought. A great example of it is the recent comments on the bail out bill. We don’t all agree and that is great since we can all discuss why. I think we have all become better people because RD you had the courage to start the Confluence. Thank you.

  139. Gary are you still out there?
    There is great strength in your passion.
    Write something with it. Write about LGBTQ rights.
    Sing the body electric, man!

  140. Mawm: If you and gary decide to rev up the Pumamobile and head out to another country you promised me I could have the backseat. Stay true to your word!!!

  141. angelasmith, on October 2nd, 2008 at 9:25 am Said:

    I wouldn’t compare Anglachel to the awful Taylor Marsh who panders to anyone to get her own radio show and article on the Huffington Post. Anglachel could care less how many visitors she gets to her site. I’ve noticed a long long time ago that she comes off as quite arrogant and probably thinks she’s the sh*t which I am willing to put up with because admittedly she is one of the best liberal bloggers I’ve seen this year.

    I might not agree with Anglachel pissing on Riverdaughter but I don’t think she’s a sellout like Taylor Marsh and Jeralyn at TalkLeft. Those two only care about promoting themselves, raking in the $$$ that comes from their blogs, and hoping that someday they’ll get their own show on Air America and MSNBC. What attracted me to Anglachel is that she actually doesn’t want us to know who she is and she’s not planning to become a talking head someday. The blog is her thoughts only and she could give a sh*t if we all decided today to leave her blog (which I won’t).

    But I also find her apathy towards regular visitors to be a bit of a turn-off. I noticed it long before Clinton dropped out of the race that if you even mentioned anything about Obama’s personal life that she would tell you to f*ck off. Sorry, but I think that certain things in his past are very relevant to this election. I don’t care if people think it’s ra*cist that I think it’s f*cked up that he went to Jeremiah Wright’s church, that he spent one hour of his fancy Hawaii vacation to visit his typical white grandmother (without his kids), that he has obvious issues with mommy and white women, or that he should provide his original birth certificate before even stepping foot into the White House.

    I just think Anglachel needs to take a step back from her criticism of other bloggers as elitist and take a look at herself once in a while because she certainly comes off as as an apathetic elitist herself at times who thinks she’s too good for even PUMA to link to her site.

  142. This business of being called a Republican.

    I don’t wish to becalled one, because nobody wants to be called something he’s not.

    But one can be called worse things.

    It was the Republican party that ended slavery, rammed through the constitutional amendment giving blacks the right to vote, and proposed all sorts of civil rights and anti-lynching laws… which were filibustered by southern Democrats.

    That’s for the benefit of anybody who has forgotten history– which I haven’t.

  143. You can distinguish people by their ethnicity and celebrate that ethnicity. R*cism is a darkness applied to that distinction.

  144. BTW – It is not rac*sm or any other “ism”to feel uncomfortable around people who are different from yourself. Lots of academic works talk about “fear of the other”

    Humans are social animals. We are hardwired to conform with our tribe and to be fearful of other tribes. We automatically think in terms of “us” and “them” That’s the result of evolution.

    We also seem to think in stereotypes. Everybody does it. If you don’t believe me, watch a comedy show.

    The problem is when the sterotypes are wrong and hurtful and we can’t or won’t correct them

  145. I am glad RD addressed this, but I refuse to defend myself against unwarranted accusations. So someone put up another post. Like Gary said, we know who we are.

  146. i want a ride in the PUMAmobile too. and i speak french, so Montreal is a good destination. kinda cold.

    or r we going south to the dysfunctional?!!!!!!!

    ——————————
    Joe Biden shared his views on illegal immigration with an Iowa crowd, saying that the solution starts with big changes in the Mexican economy.

    “They’re being irresponsible. This is the second-wealthiest nation in the hemisphere – we’re not talking about Sierra Leone,” the Democratic presidential candidate said. “This is a dysfunctional society.”
    ——————————–

    Actually Joe, Mexico is the fourth wealthiest nation in the hemisphere as measured by total GDP. You’re forgetting Canada and Brazil both of which are larger economies and wealthier on a per capita basis. And if measured on a per capita basis, then Mexico also ranks below Bermuda, Costa Rica, Chile, Barbados, Aruba, Argentina, Uruguay, Puerto Rico, the Nederland Antilles, the Bahamas and the Falklands. Ah, Joe, so close and yet

  147. myiq2xu,

    I agree. I have never felt privileged or better than anyone. When I found out about racial descrimination when I was about 7 or 8, I was shocked and horrified.

    I know there are some things that white people get because of skin, but when you are poor you also experience a lot of descrimination based on class. I’ve never judged people that way. My parents always focused on the importance of being honest, of being well informed by reading, and other basic values. When I was a kid, I never even knew we were poor. We always had everything we needed and we were loved and supported.

    As an adult I’ve never hungered for money or power. I’m not ambitious. I want to do work that I value and have enough to live on. That’s enough for me. And I’m a very happy person.

  148. Pat – you are not going anywhere until you drive the Obama’s back to Chicago.

  149. I’m afraid of vaginas

    edited to reflect authors true feelings

  150. Myiq: If that is the case, I probably don’t belong here. During my divorce and afterwards, while trying to raise my children, there were many weeks that I was probably one paycheck from a soup kitchen.

  151. If you really are a Democrat and you really want Hillary Clinton to run and win in 2012, you need to put aside, whatever feelings you have about race, gender and what ever, and vote for McCain. You might not like what I say, but economics is not my problem. Imagine Obama as our Commander in Chief and if that does not scare the shi&t out of you, nothing will! Two wars, the Russian bear out of hibernation, Iran going atomic, North Korea already atomic and starting up again, Pakistan in chaos and “hope and change” just don’t give me much assurance.

  152. OK, I have to go. I’m late for my hair appointment. I hope you don’t mind if I say again that I love you all.

  153. Carol: I will never renege on that pledge. I am just lining up my ducks.

  154. bb – you are ambitious. You are in college – correct? Ambition doesn’t have to lie in greed and excess.

  155. Pat, Gary, can I go too? I am a good cook and I keep things neat and tidy.

  156. Kim: I would never think of going without you!

  157. Kim – you can come to my house if you throw in being able to put up and take multiple Christmas Trees in a timely fashion.

  158. Thank you, with my son gone, I would get lonely without you guys.

  159. Disenfranchised,
    I’m not really interested in Anglachel. I liked her stuff once, but there are only so many variations on the word
    “Jeffersonian” that I find interesting. I like Ravel’s Bolero, and if she could run the same melodies with interest that would be something. The same note over and over is boring to me.
    When she linked to her novels on Middle Earth I found that a little eeehh. When she ran pictures of her house renovations I felt she was getting a little too
    “star quality.” When she took a cheap shot at NoQuarter a few weeks ago I found that distasteful and groundless and a little rabid.
    To take a shot at the Confluence over a false issue I find reprehensible.
    I’ve gotten out my ire with her. And I have no interest in her. To me it’s just a case of “another one bites the dust.”

  160. “take down”

  161. Mawm – I think Clinton got something in exchange for her support of that bill – like, for example, the formation of HOME and the other long-term solutions she has offered.

    I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt. She has been the one who has been screaming about freezing foreclosures for the past two years. I believe she hates the bill but realizes that the urgency of the credit crisis is too real to be ignored any longer.

    Here are her statements about the bill.

  162. madamab is right about Obama using his r@ce to his advantage & the end result, imo, is going to make this society even more divided on r@ce lines. It has already happened — no one can have any valid criticism of Obama whatsoever, they are just plain old r@cist. Trying to defend oneself against the charge is a losing & frustrating proposition because those who make the charge are not going to be swayed. Obama has proved the axiom that those who preach unity want division — anyone who cannot see that, imo, is duped and beyond help.

  163. The “racist” talking point is itself a dogwhistle tactic.

    I have seen people who consider themselves “nice” get all emotional about this issue and insist Hillary ran a racist campaign. When pressed to describe what was racist about it they get furious, but can’t think of anything.

    Stephanopoulis commented yesterday about the ABC poll that Obama’s biggest weakness with voters is his inexperience. The “racist dogwhistle” talking point says any comment about experience is automatically racist.

    Whoever thought up this Machiavellian “racist” dogwhistle talking point knew exactly what they were doing. It triggers something emotional and uncontrollable in otherwise decent people.

    I don’t think we should vote for someone based on pity.

  164. Then I am in Carol. No Christmas tree has ever been left up after New Years at my house and I have four Christmas trees.

  165. Some of the rhetoric used by partisans mirrors the stuff you see between Palestinians and Jews, or Shia and Sunni Muslims.

    The way some people describe the GOP, we would be justified in making it a crime to be a Republican.

    They are alleged to be greedy, dishonest, rac*st, sex*st, unpatriotic, etc, etc.

    Democrats aren’t perfect or course, but membership in the donkey party is alleggedly a sign of higher intelligence and superior morality.

  166. Kim – your 4 and my 3 equals 7 Christmas Trees. We might have to take some of the decorations outside also.

  167. Mawn-I’m mad at her, too. I just heard that all that crap they added totals $112 BILLION more. Why did she so eloquently speak for that? And that HOME in the future? Sure. The new bill is worse than the old one. Start calling those Reps again.

  168. Barky is on right now screwing up reading the teleprompter.

    Where is Hillary? Can she just not stage a coup and help us all?

  169. Joe Biden on Lobbyists

    “Lobbyists aren’t bad people. Special interests are not bad people. People who accept money from ‘em aren’t bad people.”

    “You go out and bundle $250,000 for me. All legal. And then you call me after I’m elected and say, “Joe, I’d like to come and talk to you about something.”

    “You didn’t buy. You helped me.”

    “I’m going to say sure…come on in.”

    -Joe Biden

  170. “Dear Sarah, Dear Sister” – by izarradar

    “They laugh at your voice, your accent. They make fun of how great you look, and how many kids you have….”

    A poignant essay, please read the rest here:

    http://partizane.com/node/199

  171. I advise everyone offended by the false accusation that you are a r@cist to take my mother’s tack: “They can call me whatever they want, I’m still not voting for Obama.”

  172. Carol, I agree with bostonboomer’s statement at 9:56 am

    “………I’m sure that I am unconsciously aware of the color of people’s skin and of all the messages I have received from a society that is saturated with racial messages. I have some awareness of the physical differences between different groups in society…..”

    I do think that most of us are in this boat. I distinguish this from r@cism as not bothering to questions those beliefs and/or actively promoting those beliefs.

    Is that calling you a r@cist? If so, I stand corrected. I have no basis upon which to apply that label to you. I do not have reason to apply that term to anyone on this blog. I truly envy people who are color blind and are immune to these beliefs that seem to me to be ever present in our society.

  173. it isn’t the color of one’s skin, it is the actions they take. we are discussing the actions of the players in the market place. i find it absolutely amazing that aa groups vote in mass for obama and somewhat that is not based on race? but then some in the democrat party turn around and throw racists curve balls at others as a way of trying to intimidate them.

    it is just plain sad to have these continued taunts of racism out there when we have more important issues to deal with right now. how dumb can that be!

    i have always found these taunts amazing. back on the blog that shall not be named i was accussed of racism. and i had written a paper published by the federal reserve on the the use of language and how to advoid words that could be indicative of racism or other negative power. geez! people will tire of this and then the backlash begins.

  174. madamab, I just can’t get myself to believe what they are saying. I believe they are lying about the urgency of this. I don’t doubt that we are in for hard times, but I don’t believe this $700,000,000,000 bail-out is the cure. What I am hearing from Dems is the same language I heard before Iraq. No one really had any concrete knowledge about WMD but there were enough people in authority stating that it was a fact that people fell for it. Now, even Paulson says there is no garauntee this bail-out will work, but everyone is screaming that we have to do this NOW NOW NOW!
    I just don’t buy it. So if I believe I the American people are being conned, I look at anyone voting yes for this bill as either a con artist or a gulible mark themselves.

  175. Now, he is channeling Sarah’s and McCain’s “do nothing'”

    Pathetic!

  176. It’s such a drag to see this blog get slammed.

    I’ve really come to appreciate the Confluence as a place that doesn’t put up offensive posts or graphics and generally doesn’t allow offensive comments.
    I’ve seen (and complained about) some truly awful stuff on other sites-rants about “The Blacks”, nastily tampered-with pics of the Obamas, etc.
    There has been none of that here.

    I’m really sorry to see so many nice people here so upset.

  177. Obama sounds angry during his morning lecture to Americans. He keeps pointing his bony finger to the crowd. He needs to shove it.

  178. Where the sun does not shine.

  179. Good grief – my head was in the bailout this AM and wham suddenly this pops up.
    Well, RD, I don’t know you but I love you and this place. I am a 66 yr old business woman who until I found this blog was verrrry frustrated with the media because I knew in my gut what I was hearing/seeing was incorrect.
    Since I discovered blogs – (never on one until this past August) and became a PUMA I’ve visited other sites – and, my dear, none compare to this. You run a tight ship, thank you for it.
    In visiting other sites I’ve found terrible language (gary’s outburst above notwithstanding) I love you too Gary, incredible prejudices, incomplete information unwillingness to share and be supportive.
    Pat, don’t cry – we know where we’re going and we will stay on track – remember the old childhood saying – “sticks and stones…”
    As a child, my next door neighbor and best friend was Bernice – a little AA girl about my age – we were inseparable – so I guess I grew up color blind -but never knew it until I took a colleague to meet a prospective client who has since become a great friend – my colleague turned to me as we were exiting the building and said “you never told me she was black” – honestly it never occured to me that it would make any difference – I no longer do business with that colleague but the client is still one of my best buds.
    Let us just move on and continue forward! :)

  180. Nijma, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:08 am Said:

    I don’t think we should vote for someone based on pity.

    Dead right — don’t people see that if they vote for Obama because he is black they are affirming the right-wing talking points re: the stereotype of affirmative action? Of course they don’t see it — we are surrounded by intellectual pygmies.

  181. I want rights for me and those like me, the rest of you can stuff it.

  182. For the record, when I have time I assist SusanUnPc in removing racist, sexist, homophobic etc comments from the delightfully UnPc No Quarter. By now, I’m sure they are in the tens of thousands.

    I’ve always admired and appreciated Anglachel yet I know the feeling is probably not mutual. So be it.

    I’ve been an active liberal Democrat feminist activist for 40 years and I will not be voting for the top of that party’s ticket.

    Whether she likes it or not, we’re all on the same team.

  183. Well said, joanelle!

    Let’s keep moving forward.

  184. why do you have to harsh my buzz. I love change man….why can’t you just work for change and hope? I love change dude. i hope that change will overcome the sameness and my friends will all love in the hope….

  185. Joan, Mawn

    my partner just said to me yesterday, that if hillary made 100 mil last year, maybe she is a billionaire. her personal interests r the same like wall street.

    i was made at her when she LET down 18 mill. voters to be replaced by this charade. soon looks like she will be irrellevant. especially if BO becomes prez.

    looks like the Clinton machine needs not only some oiling, maybe is OBSOLETE

  186. please add my name to the list of people feeling let down by Senator Clinton.
    I’ve been opposed to the ridiculous terms of this bailout from the very beginning and I feel she sold us out.
    Was it for Obama?

  187. Also, does everyone realize that we haven’t even spent $750,000,000,000 in Iraq yet? I think the total there is something like $580,000,000,000, and that is over 6 years. What happened to all the liberals crying that our spending in Iraq was keeping us from being able to spend on people in the USA? Now they are ready to ship an amount equal to another 6 year war to Wall St. in the span of one week.
    Seems like people can be convinced to do just about anything. Betray their ideals, look the other way…

  188. madamab-I think she had to do it because of the 120,000 job loss in NY. I don’t think anyone would promise her anything. Just sayin’.

  189. RD,

    When people start attacking you and telling lies, you know you’re getting to them and speaking the truth.

    They can’t stand it.

    Keep the Faith.

    Stay the course!

    We all know Obama continues to play the race card to try and prop up his house of cards.

    It’s all about to tumble down.

  190. NY is only one state out of 57+

  191. IronMan, I hope you are right.

  192. SOD:

    My thinking on Anglachel is that she can be reasoned with.

    She has misjudged us, and in doing so insulted us.

    But unlike the situation with certain other blogs than have simply abandoned rational thought, I see her post as being based on bad information, not bad thinking.

    We aren’t who she believes us to be. I want to prove to her that she has misjudged us and see if we can win her over.

    I don’t suffer fools, and my usual reaction to something like this is to uncork a big can of scorn and mockery and begin dispensing it liberally on whoever hath offended me. Just ask Jeralyn.

    But Anglachel isn’t acting irrationally, so I would like to try diplomacy.

    When I was banned from Talkleft I wasn’t hurt or offended. I knew it was coming because I was being a pest. I was being a pest because I was heaping scorn and mockery on them, and I was doing that because they pissed me off by joining the Kool-aid slurpers.

    Anglachel doesn’t touch Kool-aid.

  193. i’m color blind-More because Wall Street is in her state and she has her career to think of. I’m sure Bill will keep bringing in the $$ so so they don’t have to worry about their economic interests. I still think her heart is in the right place but she has to deal with reality.

  194. I am a pragmatic person as well as an idealistic one. I find it hard to trust any politician these days, whether R or D.

    But to slam Hillary because she is voting for this bill is not a step I am willing to take. Remember that she had predicted this credit crisis for years and no one listened. She tried to get a foreclosure freeze for years and no one listened.

    I believe she thinks the crisis is completely real. Do you think she knows nothing about the economy?

    There are political realities to be considered. She is still a Democrat and pledged to support Obama.

    I am hoping that after this sham of an election is over, she will go third-party, like Bernie Sanders of Vermont. But until then, she must toe the party line, as upsetting as it is for her. Again, I would be very surprised if she did not come away with some concessions for her own proposals in exchange.

  195. AFP: Main Street at Risk from Frozen Credit Markets
    Tags » Banking Industry

    The Association for Financial Professionals late yesterday released findings from its latest 2008 AFP Short-Term Credit Access Survey indicating that “short-term credit markets have effectively seized up in recent weeks, causing companies to hoard cash and take defensive actions, including reducing capital spending, freezing hiring, considering layoffs, and delaying payments to their suppliers.”

    These findings, from the 2008 AFP Short-Term Credit Access Survey, were released this afternoon by the Association for Financial Professionals (AFP). More than two-thirds of survey respondents are senior finance and treasury executives from a broad range of companies with annual revenues over $500 million.

    “The most pressing issue for businesses is access to credit,” said Jim Kaitz, President and CEO of AFP. “This survey is evidence that inaction by either Congress or regulators will have severe consequences on Main Street.”

    A supplemental survey conducted in the past week documents a dramatic, sudden tightening of credit markets with immediate impact on U.S. businesses. Forty percent of finance executives report that their organizations have less access to short-term credit than they did one month ago, with 16 percent reporting significantly less or no access to short-term credit. As a result, 62 percent of finance executives report that their organizations have already taken defensive actions. These organizations have:

    Moved all or most of short-term investments to bank deposits and U.S. Treasuries (41 percent)
    Reduced capital spending (37 percent)
    Shortened the duration of their investment portfolios (29 percent)
    Frozen or reduced hiring (26 percent)
    Drawn on existing credit facilities to build cash (26 percent)
    Considered staff reductions or layoffs (22 percent)
    Finance executives report that these defensive actions will become more widespread if credit access does not improve by year end. Organizations that continue to have reduced access to short-term credit at year end are likely to:

    Reduce capital spending (61 percent)
    Freeze or reduce hiring (42 percent)
    Draw on existing credit facilities to build cash (33 percent)
    Tighten credit standards for trading partners (27 percent)
    Consider staff reductions or layoffs (26 percent)
    Reduce current or planned inventory levels (23 percent)
    Delay payments to vendors (18 percent)
    As recently as early September, finance executives reported little change in their access to short-term credit over the past two years, with nearly half of organizations reporting no impact on their access to credit, and approximately equivalent percentages of companies reporting an easing (24 percent) or tightening (28 percent) of short-term credit. At that time, only two percent of companies reported that access to credit had caused any form of business contraction.

    Finance executives report that secured lines of credit (60 percent), unsecured lines of credit (59 percent), commercial paper (26 percent), and asset securitization (25 percent) are the most critical forms of short-term financing to their organization. Even before the events of September, these same financing instruments were the ones that were most adversely impacted by the credit market disruptions. Finance executives reported a moderate or sharp decrease in access to unsecured lines of credit (24 percent), secured lines of credit (17 percent), commercial paper (12 percent) and asset securitization (9 percent).

    The findings of the full 2008 AFP Short-Term Credit Access Survey can be accessed at http://www.AFPOnline.org/Research.

  196. myiq, if someone calls me a racist, I don’t reason with them. I shun them.

  197. And I’m color blind –

    Hillary and Bill, TOGETHER, made $100 million over TEN YEARS.

    She is not a billionaire. Not even close.

  198. Pity voting is silly.

    Thak God for pity sex though. That pretty much is my only option.

  199. Well, Joanelle I don’t know if I am “color blind” because when I moved to Charlotte, NC I kept feeling something was weird — after about a month after living here I suddenly realized what it was — where was all the black people?!?! And, the thing that made me realize what was “weird” is that I saw a black person in the park. So, I “see” color — luckily for me, though, having lived in NOLA I know that it isn’t the color of a person’s skin, but the content of their character that is the “thing” to look for.

  200. Madamab
    I’m well aware that Hillary knows plenty about the economy.
    More than most of her blowhard colleagues.
    But this bill is not what she proposed.
    Look upthread at Mawm’s comment.
    All those damned zeros make me dizzy!
    Who is paying for all this pork?
    All that exec pay?
    We are!
    God help us-this isn’t just a little “pet project” money. We are f***ed.

  201. Mawm – I agree with you on that too. No one calls me or my blogmother a r*cist or a Republican ratfucker and gets treated politely.

    Moreover, RD has been actively trying to court her and she has been saying she wants to join with us in our current post-election efforts. For her to come back with this bullshit is completely inexcusable.

  202. Credit cards to ‘implode:’ analyst
    Article Comments (66) JOHN PARTRIDGE

    Globe and Mail Update

    September 29, 2008 at 4:51 PM EDT

    A hurricane of bad credit card debt will start crashing ashore in the United States in the first quarter of next year, even as the mortgage crisis continues, analysts at New York research firm Innovest Strategic Value Advisors warned Monday.

    “A combination of a 10-year steady drip of deteriorating personal finances and a tidal wave . . . brought on by the mortgage and credit crisis leads us to believe that credit cards are going to implode in the near term,” Gregory Larkin, Innovest’s senior banking analysts said during an online seminar on the topic.

    So far, credit-card “charge-offs” – debts declared irrecoverable by card issuers – have been “defying gravity,” with losses lower than in both 2001 and 2005, Mr. Larkin said.

    But, historically, after a time lag, irrecoverable credit-card debt has followed mortgage charge-offs up or down, and U.S. mortgage charge-offs have rocketed up eight-fold since the last quarter of 2007.

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    “If history is any indicator, there should be an equivalent surge in credit-card charge-offs very soon,” he said. “We forecast first quarter credit-card charge-offs will be $18.6-billion (U.S.) and that the total 2009 charge-off bill will add up to $96-billion.”

    Laura Nishikawa, Innovest’s consumer finance analyst, said the credit card issuers that will be hurt least in the coming crunch will be those who had the “foresight” to improve their risk management performance during the bull market, even if they sacrificed some growth in the process.

    “On the other hand, companies that have pursued aggressive portfolio growth and higher yields at the cost of prudent risk management will struggle to manage rising loan losses, which will definitely cut into earnings or even worse, as the last few weeks have shown,” Ms. Ishikawa said.

    As well, companies that have a business model that is based on consumers actually repaying their credit-card loans, will be more resilient, although, “in reality, in the consumer finance business, we usually find the opposite of this,” she said.

    She cited American Express Co., with its charge-card model, as a prime example, calling it “best in class,” in the business by this measure.

    JPMorgan Chase also earned “best in class” among broad-based commercial banks by this and other yard-sticks, she said.

    The flip side of the coin, is credit card issuers that base their business model on consumers not paying off their card balances. Higher balances mean higher revenues along with penalty fees and jumps to higher interest rates in the event of missed payments.

    “In this model,” Ms. Nishikawa said, “delinquent borrowers become cash-flow generators, and at the extreme end, the goal becomes: ‘How do we get borrowers into delinquent status as soon as possible, in order to maximize returns?’”

    Even in good times, this strategy is a “tight-rope walk” between high fees and high charge-offs. “But when the economy turns bad, as it has, this strategy clearly cannot be sustained.”

    She cited Capital One Financial Corp. as “worst in class.”

    In response to a query during an e-mail question and answer period, Ms. Nishikawa said that the three Canadian banks most active in U.S. consumer banking, Royal Bank of Canada, Toronto-Dominion Bank and Bank of Montreal, are still “very small players” in the U.S. card business.

    Still, Innovest’s preliminary findings, she said, suggest that the three banks’ default rates on their U.S. credit card lending are “much lower” than the much larger issuers the firm has been concentrating on, although she emphasized that she is not “100 per cent confident” of this data.

  203. madamab, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 am Said:

    I believe she thinks the crisis is completely real. Do you think she knows nothing about the economy?

    “i believe”

    ——

    she also thought the same way about Iraq

    and i believe that most people in congress know nothing about economy. obviously we would, US will not be in this situation;

    indeed they HAVE economic interests

  204. But it’s her state. The other Senators worry about what their states get. Who thinks about the whole country? No one because our President is incompetent and special interests rule.

  205. myiq2xu, the leavening in our discourse! :smile:

  206. myiq – maybe, a new skin cream???????????

  207. Mawn, I agree with your 10:14 comment completely.

    I see this as the bailout the fear-mongering media and congress brought us just like they brought us the war in Iraq and George W. Bush.

    John McCain lost my vote last night when he voted aye.

    Now I will vote McKinney and get a twofer, a woman and an AA in one person. Now please don’t tell me she’s a homophobe because I’m running out of choices to vote for and I always vote. If I don’t, what right do I have to complain?

  208. madamab, I don’t doubt that we are facing a crisis, but what I see is that the Dems are again helping Wall St. before helping Main St. It seems like they could have pushed through a lot more for the average person in this bill than they did. Clinton should have fought for the HOLC to be in the bill. Why didn’t she? Seems like Dems had a lot of leverage on this one, but they refuse to use it. It just looks more and more like they are all in the pockets of Wall Street more than they are fighting for us, and I inlcude Clinton.
    So, she was warning about the foreclosures this year. Did she do anything about it? Did she rally the Dems to do anything about it? Did she fight to have more regulation on Fannie and Freddie? No. None of the above. Now she wants to vote yes on this bill, but without the protections she has said we needed. She seems to be pretty ineffective at the least.

  209. Hey Obama, it’s not your race we’re rejecting, it’s YOU!

    P.S. I’d like to apologize for acting foolish last night and posting while drugged…….that’s not me, I usually don’t do that but I was SO wound up and those xanax pills look so little, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

  210. myiq2xu, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:27 am

    myiq2xu, Anglachel is still in my favorites and I will continue to visit her. However, I think it is pointless to attempt to reason with her. She is stubborn and her mind is already made on The Confluence. Unless the Confluence purges every poster who plans to vote for McCain, she will not put the Confluence up on her blogroll.

    I wouldn’t call Anglachel a hound as another person above has suggested, but I’ve been questioning her motives recently and who she plans to vote for. I have a feeling that she might sit this election out but would still prefer Obama to win. She is after all a hardcore Democrat who doesn’t agree with any Democrat who chooses to vote for a Republican. I believe that she still dislikes Obama and the way he has acted this year. I still read her because I honestly believe that she is a loyal Clinton supporter who won’t vote for Obama mainly because of the way Clinton was treated.

    I say continue to read Anglachel because her posts are informative to those of us who did not get a PhD in political science. But accept her for who she is. Anyone who has visited her site long enough should have figured out her personality type by now. I don’t see the use in trying to convince her of anything.

  211. Carol-I think the credit card companies are busily cutting credit lines even as you typed.

  212. i guess when one has 100 mil. or 1000 mil, personal interests r closer to wall street than main street. i really believe that there r very few politicians who really care about “the people”, and most care only during campaign.

    after yesterday’s video, i believe that these 2 care

    Reps. Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio) and Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.)

    VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT. maybe after a few of them lose their seat, the rest will get the message

  213. catarina – And what would you have her do?

    NO ONE IS LISTENING TO HER. She put herself out there, in the papers, on TV, and in the Senate. She even brought Bill out to insist that she was right. She did everything she could.

    Her colleagues blew her off.

    All I know is, if we start throwing people like Hillary under the bus because she votes for things we don’t like sometimes, we will have no representatives left to fight for us in Congress.

    This type of absolutism is very, very harmful to our interests. Just saying.

  214. riverdaughter does not deserve this accusation and neither to the posters here . Excuse me , but no one , NO ONE, has blogged with the quality and quantity that riverdaughter has shown …it’s not even close. …plus put her ass on the line in Denver? Please. And I have to laugh if people think the posters here are rac**st.??…Lordy where have you been holed up?

    I think as we get closer to the election, some people will dumb down and Dem up and get into line just as Nancy & Donna said they would. And they have to find a ” reason ” to do so …. I think Anglachel ‘s post has more to do with Anglachel than RD. IMO

  215. RD

    if you are reading this then you are not cleaning.
    Not necessarily a bad thing.

    Once when faced with little notice, a not-so-sparkling house, and overnight guests, my best friend’s words of wisdom were:
    “catarina, how many laundry baskets do you have?”

    Lucky for me, I had several and in less than an hour the place looked pretty good.

    So, RD. How many laundry baskets do you have?

  216. Mwam, I agree. And I think the market tank on the Monday after the House bill failed was deliberate, and orchestrated by the big money players, not a natural and inevitable occurrence. It was Wall Street’s and the hedge fund boyz way of saying, “You’d better do what we want, or we will tank this puppy.”

  217. RD, I totally support you, The Confluence, and every word written here. There is no racism here and we are not racists. We believe that racism has no safe harbor within PUMA and will not be tolerated.

    Calling us racists is a cheap shot other Dems take because they have a myopic view (hard to say about Anglachel) of the party juxtaposed to the blatant Bushery that the DNC, party leaders, and Obama campaign has conducted. Their cognitive dissonance causes varying states of denial, antipathy, resentment, and even projection. They know the ends do not justify Obama’s means (well most do), but yet they try the head fake (literally and metaphorically) because they support the party at all costs. We’ve freed ourselves from that paradigm, stood up, and spoken out in the face of massive criticism (being called all sorts of hateful things the worst being racists and Republicans).

    As angry as it makes us, those that direct hateful speech our way deserve our compassion really. Their suffering is actually quite great, maybe even greater than our own right now. We are free and they are not.

  218. About the Iraq War:

    I believe the government knew there were WMD because we sold them to Iraq. What happened to them, who knows. Was Sadamn an eminent threat, probably not. Did most of Congress and America think it was a good idea to have the war? Yes. Were we lied to? Yes. Did we tell them it was okay to go to war and then fuck it up? No.

    We are here and can’t go back. 20/20 hindsight would be great. I could have all of the megamillion dollars I want.

    Who knows enough and cares enough to get us out with the least amount of regret? Hillary. Is she the candidate? No. Next best choice? McCain.

    Have a good day. This morning has been too tiring, and it is only 9:41.

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  219. Mawm: The way I read it she wasn’t calling us rac*sts. She said we were repeating some old right wing meme that was rac*st..

    She is probably correct about that, but as I said earlier, there is lots of bullshit circulating these days.

    She has also noted that some people originally affiliated with PUMA are, shall we say, of dubious origin. But we didn’t invite them in, they just showed up. We have taken steps to distance ourselves from those people.

    I have been concerned with GOP infiltration from day one. I also want PUMA to be more exclusive in it’s membership. No haters or nut-jobs wanted.

  220. kenoshaMarge, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 am Said:

    John McCain lost my vote last night when he voted aye.

    Now I will vote McKinney and get a twofer, a woman and an AA in one person. Now please don’t tell me she’s a homophobe because I’m running out of choices to vote for and I always vote. If I don’t, what right do I have to complain?

    ——————

    actually all the hip hop culture (see rosa clemente) is homophobic

    on a different note, your vote for green is a waste. may as well stay home. sounds like an obama troll.

  221. I’m color blind –

    she also thought the same way about Iraq

    Again, incorrect.

    She thought the AUMF would get Saddam to allow the inspectors in. Which it did.

    Read her speech on the Senate floor if you think that’s not so.

    And Mawm – If she is ineffective, how is that her fault? She is only one person and her Party has turned against her for daring to run against The One.

    No one is perfect, but Hilary is on our side.

  222. The only part I agree with is voting republican. Damn is that going to be a bitter pill to swallow. I haven’t checked into leaving the top blank in South Carolina.

  223. “dumb down and Dem up” — I love that line paper doll! That is exactly the right way to describe it. Good God people! Don’t you know that this course of action will only prove that we really do have no place else to go and will allow the DNC to not learn a blipping thing from their actions during the primary? I refuse to accept that fate.

  224. madamab, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 am Said:
    All I know is, if we start throwing people like Hillary under the bus because she votes for things we don’t like sometimes, we will have no representatives left to fight for us in Congress

    I totally agree. If fellow Dem elite listened to Hillary, she would be our candidate and 35 points ahead .
    There is a limit to what even Hill can do .

  225. I’ll be so glad when this election is over. So so so so very very glad. Hang in there, RD.

  226. This is depressing. You guys ready for some snark?

  227. bb doesn’t have to take back the unconscious r@cism comment. I’ll expand on that, even: current knowledge about learning indicates that we can’t help but stereotype. It is a time-saving mechanism built into us, to condense the huge amount of stimuli we constantly receive into categories. That means simplifying. It is also almost beyond arguing that first impressions set the tone and direction of that categorizing. Now think about “r@ce.” It’s all about looks, that first impression. Civilization is a constant effort to correct unthinking first impressions through new learning experiences. This is how white guilt has gotten so effective, through years of “rainbow children” and “rainbow people” ads, and affirmative action–instilled a quick, “must not be prejudiced” reflex. How else the “first impression” effect can be overcome, I don’t know, but the result is the whites are conditioned to feel guilty, and I believe some non-whites take advantage of that.

  228. Kim — if you are in SC vote third party — no matter how you vote McCain will win in a landslide there, so register the fact that you are NOT choosing either of the 2 top candidates. If I still lived in LA I would do the same (as McCain will also carry that easily). Since I’m currently in an alleged swing-state, I’m voting McCain — my vote is based on the fact that I am a woman & I cannot condone the sexism used by the DNC during the primary (or the GE for that matter), so I feel very good about my vote — any one who doesn’t like it can kiss my a$$. I vote my conscience.

  229. paper doll, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 am Said:

    There is a limit to what even Hill can do .

    ****************

    Agreed. Even if we had been able to elect her as our president this time, she would still have needed our support to enact her policies.

  230. madamab, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am Said:
    This is depressing. You guys ready for some snark?

    Beyond ready

  231. madamab
    i totally get your point
    but she didnt fight for me!
    I wanted her to vote NO!
    Is that unrealistic?
    but isn’t a 700 billion dollar bailout unrealistic?

    maybe its delusional.
    but for months now i’ve wanted hrc to raise holy hell!

    when does someone have the guts to break rank and say this is not what the people need right now!?

    I don’t “throw her under the bus” for her vote. But it made me really sad and disappointed and I had to wonder how much of it was good old party pressure.

  232. madamab, I think absolutism is what will save us. Too many people think we should let a vote here slide and a vote there slide, so that out favorite politicians can eventually do what we want. However, it doesn’t seem like we are ever getting what we want. Why shouldn’t we hold them accountable for every vote? Isn’t that politics? Just because I think Clinton failed on this one, doesn;t mean I would never vote for her in the future, but to me it is a strike against her. I’m going to vote for McCain, but he voted yes also. I think he was wrong too. Obama voted yes, so I guess it’s a wash.

  233. oh, duh.
    it was all “good old party pressure”
    waaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    madamab thanks for listening, send me a bill.

  234. RD and sometimes it’s just the other person and not you who has poor judgement. I have oftened wonder if it is not acutally PUMA who is the group beyond race as IMHO they judged Obama as any man vs a social justice symbol.

  235. Mawm – I agree that we should get what we want. But sometimes, we can’t get what we want, and that’s not always a bad thing.

    I wanted Howard Dean as President, for example, in 2004.
    ;-)

    Okay, snarky post up!!!!

  236. Sounds like this archangel person is having a Taylor Marsh/Texasdarlin’ moment.
    Franklin Rains is a bad actor who happens to be black, that Johnson guy who was on Obama’s V P search committee is one too but he’s white. Point out that they did bad things and until they went under the bus they were Obama’s BFFs isn’t racist.

  237. Oh, yes, please! Snark away!

  238. Admittedly, I haven’t been spending much time online lately because of a tsunami of family affairs that have come up recently, but I have scanned the posts and I’m honestly not sure to what post(s) Anglachel is referring.

    I’ve always considered myself sensitive to r*cism and have often pointed it out to others who may not have detected it, but I have to say if it has been present here at the Confluence, it has sailed right over my head.
    To my mind, if I am not a r*cist, and I do not harbor r*cist thoughts or opinions, then the fact that someone accuses me of it because of something going on in their own consciousness does not make it so.

    I am disappointed in Anglachel. Her accusations are broad and serve no useful purpose. I thought better of her. (With the exception of those Affirmative Action posts. I agree with you, RD, they were long and boring and strayed in so many different directions one had no idea what exactly her point was other than to say, “I know more than you…”.

  239. purplefinn, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 am Said:

    ….Agreed. Even if we had been able to elect her as our president this time, she would still have needed our support to enact her policies

    Exactly…and she would have needed our support to enact her policies as Hillary fought the the Dems in her own party to get them made into law! As I see Obama ‘s long TV ad on his Mom cancer and health care…all I think of Kerry saying UHC is a non starter . That’s the true positon of the higher ups of both parties . If Obama was an actual Dem, he would not be where he is.

  240. I have often liked Anglachel because she has a knack for concretizing some very complex thoughts about what’s really happening in politics with respect to class, race, gender, economics, etc. But her writing is very generalized, which can either be spot on or be hiding a multitude of sins.

    One of the prime mechanisms for bullying and intellectually rotting out the ‘Left’ blogs this year is exactly what she engages in here, and exactly what Mandos engaged in — although his post did it a lot more clumsily (he totally gave himself away with the overt CDS in his post).

    The mechanism is to troll around a bunch of sites, looking for one post or one statement to seize upon, then run off to your own (or another) site and blurt out as representative of a whole blog, or a group. The other key ingredient in most of these intellectually corrupt cupcakes is to never quote, or quote only a few words or lines among hundreds or 1000s, but instead to rely on misleading characterizations of the arguments being made. Throw in a link which you know your readers won’t bother to use to see how you’ve mislead through generalization or characterization.

    This practice has become accepted as a legitimate method of acquiring knowledge throughout whatever passes as the left intellegentsia these days. The problem is, it’s a deeply flawed method of knowledge, and it has been relentlessly pursued and promoted by the worst elements in the Republican party for years; it’s how they win the game, mostly.

    The problem is, instead of fighting the method, Democrats and most of Left Blogistan have adopted it, and called it genius, because 1) it’s a short term ‘win’ for them; and 2) it feeds their self-fetishization with how smart and brilliant they are by allowing them to vomit their intellectual superiority over the ‘little people’ and ‘low information’ voters. The r*cism accusations are just the worst symptom.

    One of the biggest and most laughable (if it weren’t so damaging) elements of Democratic elitism has always been rhetorical ‘correctness’ (anti-racism, anti-sexism, for the working class, etc) coupled with a driving aversion to actual contact with the ‘little’ people. Elitists on the left are happy to throw around fighting words championing the exploited and underserved, as long as they don’t have to associate with them.

    I’m afraid that in this post, Anglachel used her very theoretical and generalized style of writing to adopt the post-rational ‘smear’ method of the very Republicans she claims to revile to effect the same sort of rhetorical elitism that damages Democrats almost every pres. campaign. That she now won’t associate with PUMAs, but she’s fine associating with TL (where PDS has been a giant freakin’ banner of misogyny for the last month and a half) is evidence toward that.

    Ok, now for a total f*cking rant — I’ve just frakkin’ sick to death of all these keyboard activists, typing for democracy, snarking at PUMAs. I don’t usually try to back up what I say with a big list of my liberal-feminist cred, but I was out marching and vigiling, and actually working against violence against women, against racism, against homophobia, and so on ad nauseam before most snark-typists were born, and f*ck every one of you pecking at a keyboard and claiming some fabulous moral superiority because you’re either too lazy or too afraid to get your hands a wee bit dirty.

    Hmm, that wasn’t that great a rant, and it was not aimed at Anglachel particularly, but in general.

  241. I am disgusted! that Anglachel would link River Daughter and “racism”.

    She is an eloquent writer, but sorry…anytime you lessen the impact of an existing scourge such as racism by crying wolf, that’s not intelligent no matter how you look at it.

    People are too sensitive to things such as “purple lips”. You know what? People talk about Hillary’s “cankles”. If she had f*cking purple lips, they’d be talking about her PURPLE F*CKING LIPS.

    If talk such as that is considered “racist”, then 100% of Americans are guilty whether it be in relation to “she’s got big ears” or “wow, what a big butt”.

    This is a safe haven for many people who have worked in the Democratic party for the true ideals it espouses, some for many years.

    To be called racist, shunned, discarded, and told to “not let the door hit you in the ass” because you FAVOR THE MORE EXPERIENCED, POLICY WONK over the less experienced, part-time state senator, 3 year national Senator who spent 2+ of those years running for President, is not just HORRIBLE, it’s SOMETHING WE WERE BRAINWASHED INTO THINKING ONLY REPUBLICANS ARE CAPABLE OF!!!!

    What part of that shit do people like “anglachel” not fucking get??!

    My GOD!

  242. Darn, I’m in moderation again! Will someone get me out? Is it because I write such long screeds?

  243. madamab-But Howard wasn’t qualified because he was Governor of a state with too few people, you know, like Sarah Palin. No one mentioned that then? Never mind.

  244. For months we have been waiting for someone with gravitas to take the reins and say, this is wrong. You are being cheated, denied, manipulated. Someone who validated what we all know to the truth. No one has stepped forward. They all got on the bandwagon and pretend that nothing is amiss. That this guy got to where he has through a series of maneuverings that would make a contortionist proud.

    We waited and we waited and we waited. Nothing. This is where the disillusionment took hold with a grip. The Lanny Davis’s, the Gerry Ferrarro’s, the Ed Rendell’s whose voices could have made a difference but who chose to climb onboard for the “sake of the party”. The same corrupt, disenguous party we all recognize.

    We have been let down. Set adrift. Excuses and hidden meanings were marched out to cover these lapses. Well I am sick of it. Sick of giving credence to those entrusted to do their best for us. Someone needs to stand up and make it known that what is being perpetrated on us is wrong. Instead we get the spin. He/she had to. No other way. Think of 2012. Best interest. Party loyalty. Bullshit!!!

    Leaders lead. As for 2012, that is 4 years down the road. Will any of us be around then? Will we have jobs, homes, healthcare? I am so tired of excuses I could scream.

  245. Rut-roh…I think I used too many curse words, or “purple lips” in my post to make it go into moderation.

  246. Valhalla-It’s usually unformatted links that do it. Or the words tr*ll or r*cist. Spammy is unpredictable.

  247. Someone please ask “anglachel” what constitutes racism directly, and then ask HOW uhbama can be criticized to safely avoid the “racism” label?

    Because I’d really like to fucking know so as not to offend such sensitive fweelings.

  248. Pat – I understand your feelings, believe me. Hillary fought till the very last second for us. She did what she could. But when your own Party is sabotaging everything you do, there is only so much that is possible. And her motivation, I believe, is based in what is good for the American people, with a healthy dash of pragmatism and political self-interest.

    If you want her to lose her job, that’s fine. But as imperfect and flawed as she is, she is one of the best we have. If we throw her in with the others, I think we are going to be very sorry.

  249. Why isn’t the word “Racism” written in these comments? Is it being removed? The definition may be offensive, but the word itself is not profane. Are we losing our grasp of the English language? If we cannot use the proper terms to describe even the most vile of things, how do we propose to eliminate them?

  250. I think Hill voted yes on this bill for the same reason she stepped back from fighting the nomination. She gets out of the way of run away trains, so she can be there for the fall out. Who has worked more in the Senate since Hillary was shoved aside? No one of course . And all the things she got done would not be done if she insisted on a real floor fight she would not have gotten anyway. I’m disappointed too….but IMO Hill sees the smaller , but real victories she can achieve as vital , since she would not even get the big ones….yet

  251. Leah Ann: We have to do it this way since you find yourself in moderation in spelling it all in one piece. The spam filter is set up to censor certain words.

  252. Leah Ann, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 am Said:
    ————————————-

    I’m assuming because alof of the uhbamabushbots use it in their accusatory posts.

    jus’like anglachel.

  253. when i hear the word racism, i have to stifle a yawn. that’s right, a yawn. and that’s a shame isn’t it. that word should be used strictly for the real thing and be treated with respect, but we have now demeaned the word along with many of our well meanint politicans like hillary and bill. for what? so that obama and gang can manipulate along with the cbc with false charges of racism? it sure appears that way to me. so i am bored i telll you. i don’t want to hear it. my eyes glaze over and i fall asleep at the wheel at the mere mention of the word.

    that is going to be the general public’s reaction very soon. the financial concerns with fall to the wayside as the markets stabalize in the coming week. personally i still have concerns about soros and manipulation. not that the dunderheads in the administration and wall street can’t screw up badly on their own.

    be well

  254. madamab, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 am

    here , here

  255. I am a total dipshit…there I said it…I feel better now.

  256. I just read that post and this one and this was my comment to anglachel (posting here because she may/may not choose to publish it):

    I agree with you that dakinikat’s post was inaccurate on minority loans being riskier and the cause of the meltdown. In fact, I did comment there about many millions of contrary examples from developing countries. For example, Bangladesh micro-lending failure rates at 1-2% are far, far lower than failure rates for higher-magnitude loans given to wealthier people. In India, there are examples of community/cooperative banks which only lend to minorities of limited means and their repayments rates again, are far far higher than that of mainstream private banks that lend to people from all backgrounds in higher socio-economic classes. Credit card companies in Asia complain about students from top business schools being the worst defaulters.
    Plus, we all know by now that the meltdown wasn’t because of individual bad mortgages, but because of the fact that these bad loans were bundled, the total risk assessed inaccurately to cancel out, and then the risk multiplied via derivatives.
    However, to cite an inaccurate conclusion by one poster led by limited data and poor fact-checking, as an example of the ‘racism’ prevalent in an entire blog and in the whole PUMA movement is as distorting of the truth as dakinikat’s original post was. This is definitely not doing you any favors, and points to your prejudice of any avowed non-Democrats over any logic or reason.

  257. I feel the same Pat! Totally, let down:-(

  258. Pat Johnson: I feel like crying.

    That was my feeling when reading all of this – the first thought I had was that this was a different kind of Civil War being waged. The split between Democrats is so extreme. It’s beyond sad.

  259. Leah Ann, obots regularly accuse us of r @ c i s m. That’s why the word is tagged for moderation. It’s an attempt to keep the obots civil. There’s nothing wrong with the word but there is something VERY wrong when it used, again and again, as a billy club.

  260. y’all want to come upstairs for a little comic relief? it’s a sucky morning.

  261. paper doll
    this will be some fall out, like we’ve never, ever seen!
    and the taxpayers will remember that she voted for this larceny.

  262. Now I can’t find my comments in the original post…pshaw.

    But RD, everyone, hang in there. We’re perfectly right in what we do everyday, and Anglachel’s argument is flawed – especially her example of the Confluence. I’m with myiq that we must not start bashing a very good, very smart blogger but try to argue with her rationally, and prove our stand is right.

  263. Pumas must really have the so called democrats scared.
    When you can’t stand the truth you react by name calling.
    There is good , bad and ugly in all races.
    Pointing out the bad and the ugly and the unqualified is not racist in my book. It is common sense.
    I feel the same way about backtrack’s white half as I do his black half. Both are unqualified and not good for the country.
    This is a scarey time in this country.
    We may lose democracy and we better pay attention and stop the silly name calling.
    Can anyone name one good thing that backtrack has done for this country? If not why is not ok to point that out to people?

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  264. madamab
    will there be drinking games?

  265. “One thing about the post in question is it talks about recycled right wing talking points being used by people on the left. She’s right, they have been used by various people this year, including PUMAs.
    But I don’t think people always know the history of some of these things….”

    ===

    I agree with myiq.

    RD, I know I don’t participate as much as some but I do try to keep up on the reading, and I think Anglachel was talking about the posts, not the comments, and specifying that these arguments during the financial crisis are rightwing talking points being promoted and being accepted by people as something to hang Obama with, when in fact they are rife with blaming all Dems and Bill Clinton, too….and they, the rightwing arguments, are the ones with racist dogwhistles built in.

    You can’t read two comments back to back on NoQuarter these days without stepping in this Republican crap. They are lockstep in promoting a very obvious and dubious agenda. That is why I have not trusted NQ’s posts on ACORN, altho even Anglachel called ACORN out, too.

    Think of it this way. First, we couldn’t believe the Republicans would back Bush and Cheney and not want to clean up their own party. Then, we broke with the fauxgressives because instead of being reality-based they regurgitated Obama myths and even recycled CDS attacks on Hillary. If we want to forge a new progressive movement we have to be vigilant. Just because we’ve been UNFAIRLY attacked as racists does not mean that Archlangel’s criticism is more of the same.

    Perhaps it’s her holier-than-thou attitude that is undercutting her points. She should be more concerned with HELPING the movement not be infiltrated, but instead she prefers the rarified air of the mountain top from which she delivers her sermons.

    But, as I said, I agree with myiq. We definitely should be concerned with infiltration from the right and rejecting those with an agenda that is ultimately harmful. Rejecting the ideas, I mean…the people may merely be uninformed, altho I tend to suspect all those posting “I’m done with Dems, I’ve voting straight Republican ticket!!!” of being trolls.

    Please, those of you running this show… take what is useful from anglachel’s critique and do her one better. Continue to build the new progressive movement—SOUNDLY REJECTING the rightwing talking points— and maybe she’ll come down from on high one day. If not, it will be on no account of ours.

  266. Eh, this too shall pass. There seems to be rising wave against dissenting opinion in PB .02, and a resurgence of the r@ce accusation. Which I find amusing, coming from people who generally seem to know so little about r@cism and its nuances. For lack of a better phrase, an awful lot of bloggers who think they’re Really Smart have made r@cism a black and white issue, when it’s not nearly so binary and simplistic. Sometimes I wonder, do they really think that Americans fall into two categories, “white” and “African-American?”

    In any case, there’s only so worked up I was ever able to get about someone who takes Lord of the Rings analogies that seriously. When I was reading Anglachel, she did have some good to extremely good posts, but I think she heard that she was “scary smart” one too many times. She lost me when she started scolding her commenters and saying how repetitive they were. I concluded that Anglachel really only wants to talk to Anglachel.

    These blogs will change any number of times, over and over, as alliances shift, depending on who’s tearing whom apart.

  267. Look, it is not that I don’t love and appreciate Hillary, I do, very much. I am just sick to death of the entire thing. Few came forward on her behalf to scuttle the rac*cist charges aimed at both Clinton’s. That may have pushed some of that runaway bias back. Few stepped up and challenged the unmitigated efforts of sexism thrown at her. Few challenged the vote and rollcall.

    When it was over they just dusted off their hands, shrugged, and climbed onboard. We are now in the midst of a “crisis” that has been brewing for sometime and has been traced to both parties. Yet until this past week few have come forward (Hillary did) and we are now faced with a “hurry up and wait” policy while they load even more crap onto a bloated bailout bill.

    It is all politics and the public be damned. Somewhere, sometime, someone must articulate the wrongs. But making excuses for each player is avoidance of the issues. I don’t give a crap whose seat is vulnerable, I want leadership and action I can at least have a modicum of confidence to show for my vote. So far, nada.

  268. Thank you all for the clarification. I am so glad to read all of your opines regarding this mess of an election cycle. I too hope for a future HRC presidency and have never been more disappointed and disgusted with the DNC and other Dems. I never thought I’d HOPE for a Dem failure and a GOP win, but, here I am.

  269. I think it’s amazing that one word can be used to stifle free speech. I also have an unpleasant feeling that Axelrod, the pack of Obamer bloggers and the media could have taken any word and used it as the blunt instrument they have made out of rac*st.

    They have stripped the word of all meaning by applying it to any situation. I tend to use the word fuck as punctuation. They use the word “rac*st.” In both cases, the word serves only to heighten emotion. It is separated from it’s true meaning.

  270. There are no leaders in Washington just a high decibel chorus of bloviating, syncopating, mind boggling crap!!! Not one Patrick Henry amongst them.

  271. angelasmith, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am Said:
    ____________________

    hAAAAA – love that punctuation mark

  272. In the end there is only one thing that led to the meltdown. People can (and will) debate and dissect policy minutia to their hearts content but in the end it’s simply the result of greed. We can pass legislation and try to regulate it, and maybe if we had a “war on greed” equivalent to a “war on drugs” then we might see some change for the better. But in the end, we need to make a big change in the moral foundation of our culture before we’ll see any significant progress. JMHO of course.

  273. destardi, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:02 am Said:

    Someone please ask “anglachel” what constitutes racism directly, and then ask HOW uhbama can be criticized to safely avoid the “racism” label?

    destardi, Anglachel mentioned herself months ago that Obama opened these can of worms himself. When the Democratic nominee uses racism to win, I think liberal bloggers no longer have the right to lash out at the voters.

  274. This is sad. I won’t go to her blog any more, even though I am used to being defiled and called a racist just because I don’t like Obama (ir his wife) and I back up with concrete reasons as to why–none of which have anything to do with race.

    When we start eating our own, we will pay a huge price eventually.

  275. Dear pumas, we are being attacked because of our values. we stand against corruption, we are of all races, creeds and religions and we are sick of the crap, so we rally together to make change of our own. Racism is a terrible word to use lightly; people who do should be ashamed of themsel ves. Racism is a real problem in our world and that is why pumas do not endorse it. We formed because of a lack of love, respect and care for the person on the street. Dems became so brutal against our desires for the best candidate to run for the white house that we have been beaten to crap online and on the street. Hating Dems have come out of woodwork to throw in the weak, pathetic line,”you guys are racist”. That is a disgusting slap in the face for puma people who have been victimized by racism. My mother grew up in segregation as a latina; I do not join racist groups. I joined puma because it is the only truth in a vat of lies. Obviously, the idiot who called pumas racist has never truly felt the heat of racism in true form, or she would not desensitize it and keep her uneducated mouth shut. She is a disgusting person.
    Go Riverdaughter! Go pumas! Keep on pushing don’t stop!

  276. Zee, I’m done with Dems and I’m voting straight Rep ticket. I am not a troll.

  277. Juanita Gonzalez had a post up at Stop Obama
    called “calumnied by a nobody.”

    That and RD’s title “minds wide open, brains falling out” have got to be the best reactions to this kind of stuff.

  278. angienc, way up thread on NOLA and AA. I wish more people would examine the way people in the South actually live as opposed to the way the media portrays us.

    Years ago (if I remember all this correctly), MLK, speaking of the Boston school desegration riots, said that in the South when a black baby cries a white man hears it, but in the North when that baby cries no one hears it. That folks is what proximity is all about. Like angienc, I have heard and worked with quite a few AA’s who can put Obama to shame as far competence and eloquence goes. I am less than impressed with the man, and now I am disappointed by anglachel’s post, too.

    Has ordinary common sense completely evaporated in this toxic atmosphere?

    Unfortunately, for me and probably tens of thousands of other people, the “r-word” has completely lost its sting. As my son remarked about gays “that has about as much value as talking about the evils of being left handed.”

  279. I am copying the entire comment by I am color blind so that there can be no doubt of who I am talking to:

    I’m color blind, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:43 am Said:
    kenoshaMarge, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 am Said:

    John McCain lost my vote last night when he voted aye.

    Now I will vote McKinney and get a twofer, a woman and an AA in one person. Now please don’t tell me she’s a homophobe because I’m running out of choices to vote for and I always vote. If I don’t, what right do I have to complain?

    ——————

    actually all the hip hop culture (see rosa clemente) is homophobic

    on a different note, your vote for green is a waste. may as well stay home. sounds like an obama troll.

    I have been commenting here @ the Confluence nearly from it’s inception. I have written long loud and often about my complete and absolute disdain for Obama and the Obamacrats.

    I find it unconscionable that you feel that somehow you have the right to call me an Obama Troll simply because I choose to cast my vote as I see fit. I believe that you owe me an abject apology.

    One of the things I most like about the Confluence is that name-calling is not allowed and that a person’s vote is respected as their right. I believe you crossed both of those lines in one comment.

    If those rules no longer apply I would appreciate it if someone let me know so I can go elsewhere.

    NØbama NØway

  280. Zee, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:13 am Said:
    ————————————–

    “soundly rejecting right wing talking points”

    Yes, because in on this Earth, we all know there are ABSOLUTES, yea?

    Meaning, republicans are ALWAYS evil, nasty creatures, and dems are ALWAYS positive, bringers of light.

    If “soundly rejecting right wing talking points” is closing your ears/mind to other Americans, no freakin thank you. I’ve been doing that for the past 8 years, and I was devastated DEVASTATED when fellow progressives turned on their own, and made mincemeat out of them WITH RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS.

    As far as NQ, yea there are more and more republicans showing up, but Larry Johnson has done the right thing regarding Plame, etc and he tries to keep things cleaned up.

    But let me say that if you don’t know that you shouldn’t trust everything pro-dem sites are telling you as equally as you shouldn’t trust pro-rep sites…you might want to mature a little more. I’ve had it with the republican bad guy/democrat good guy crap that’s steering our country into the ground. Independent from here on out.

  281. alice, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:13 am Said:
    When I was reading Anglachel, she did have some good to extremely good posts, but I think she heard that she was “scary smart” one too many times. She lost me when she started scolding her commenters and saying how repetitive they were. I concluded that Anglachel really only wants to talk to Anglachel.

    alice, I absolutely agree. It is dangerous for anyone whether or not they try not to get a big head not to become holier-than-thou and arrogant when they begin to hear over and over again that they are “scary smart” and “better than Digby”. I always thought that Anglachel was different from Jeralyn and TM in that she isn’t interested in money or personal fame but that the blog was to satisfy her own ego. Yes, she is smart but she should know better that unlike the Obamabots, us Clinton Democrats and PUMAs don’t put up with that bullsh*t. I refuse to worship anyone (including Hillary Clinton) or be lectured to. When working class and middle of the road Americans start to sense any form of arrogance from a NE educated liberal, we begin to pull away.

    This is why Riverdaughter is my favorite blogger. I like Anglachel’s Journal very much but Riverdaughter always had the ability to get her point across in a non-elitist way that almost anyone of various ages and educational levels can read and understand. Riverdaughter isn’t out to make money or be well-liked. She doesn’t turn loyal Democrats away because their anger has made them want to vote for John McCain. She has understood and respected all of our various opinions and means of protesting the DNC. This understanding and empathy has been sorely missing from the likes of all the other liberals in the blogosphere and it is the reason why Democrats lose or are tied in a year when a Democrat should’ve been able to win without lifting a finger.

  282. The PUMAS wanted Hillary and were accused of being racists.
    People here are not racists — however, we could point to members of Obama’s camp who are! Couldn’t we? Let’s start with Rev. Wright and take it from there.

    It seems like an easy tactic, doesn’t it — to have that as your only thing to fall back on. People here wanted Hillary because of the last eight years we’ve just gone through, didn’t we? And, we watched Obama use that very tactic against them.

    Big mistake. The actions of CampObama at this point? Will be coming back to haunt them and it will be very sad when we all have to watch it. Axelrod had no problems splitting the electorate when he used divisive target-marketing by race in the first place — that was a bad move, wasn’t it? It was.

    All of the unethical things he has done are being investigated right now and are coming to light. As they surface each one is a bubble popping. It’s too bad. But, he did it. The electorate this year had no plans to see another puppet in place. Especially not a puppet who messed with the FEC in terms of donations…

    If you are interested in seeing the view of Obama from a Black perspective — go read Black Agenda Report. Take a look! And you can see what journalists have had to say. Criticism isn’t racism.

    The arrogance of this candidate may lead to a total mess post this election cycle, though — for all groups who self-identify in racist ways in this country. It will be very sad to see the era of post civil rights destroyed — won’t it? Many feel the gains made have already been torn asunder by the events we have witnessed. Like say, the sexism hurled at Hillary. How or if this country ever heals from what Axelrod wreaked will be a test of America itself.

    When you have old school types like Jesse Jackson wanting to castrate Obama — you know there is a problem, no?

    We’d have that problem with anyone who gamed the system, wouldn’t we?

  283. There is a huge difference between correcting the wrongs of redlining and discriminatory lending practices, which is what the CRA was intended to do, and preying financially on the middle class and below, which includes the poor. The CRA was passed in 1977, when discriminatory mortgage lending practices and redlining were widespread and the blockbusting and white flight of the 50s and 60s were still fresh in memory.

    The problem originally was banks refusing to lend or imposing worse terms on qualified Black borrowers or on those wishing to buy in certain neighborhoods, which kept Blacks poorer and hastened the decline of Black-majority neighborhoods. I remember this well from the media of the time. This is a real ill that still needs correcting. I believe it can be done, however slowly, with safe and sound lending practices.

    Predatory lending is quite a different story. I am unfit to comment whether the CRA enabled predatory lending, and, if so, *when* it started to do so. *If* it inadvertently did, it is not r@cist to point out that the CRA is not serving its original 1977 purpose and needs amending to suit current conditions.

  284. Anglachel has missed the mark by a wide margin this time. There is no way that a reasonable person could accuse the Confluence of racism. RD, you are the model of openness and tolerance that I look to for well thought out positions. I didn’t get a chance to read all the comments, but I’m sure that they are very suppoprtive of you. You stay on the high ground and tell it like you see it, through the PUMA lens that was forged out of the falling glass debris of those 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling. Stay strong. We treasure YOU!

  285. I’ll cosign with the poster who says that Anglachel is full of herself. She pays way too much attention to the commenters who daily tell her how brilliant she is–a common failing of bloggers, and of anyone else, i suppose. Fact is, she makes some good points, but she’s often full of shit, too. This is one of those times.

  286. Someone pop over and ask what 95% + of the AA population voting for Obama is called?

    I’m still waiting for an answer to that question.

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  287. I seldom get a chance to visit this site so I hope you don’t mind if I chime in. As an East Coast lefty liberal from way back and (formerly) a lifelong Democrat, I can say positively with every fiber of my being that my criticism of Obama and my distrust of him is based wholly and solely on fact, observation and research. Everyone with whom I associate who likewise does not trust him comes from the same reasoned place. As I am sure people do here.

    I, too, appreciated some of Anglachel’s posts in the past but for her to make such a statement is wrong. This is not the site for racism of any kind. I have never witnessed this here or on the sites I frequent (and if there are those posters or trolls who enter those comments, they are moderated out).

    I am good and damned sick and tired of being insulted for my very correct views about Obama not being qualified or trustworthy — based on his ACTIONS, not his words. Those who wish to sip the koolaid of the MSM are welcome to do so. My family, my friends and colleagues and I wil not do so.

    While I don’t have an exaggerated sense of my own importance, as some do, apparently, I feel in my gut that I am right on this one and I will not change my mind about him or his campaign’s behavior or actions; or those corrupt DNC ‘elders’ who have seen fit to perpetrate this fraud on the American people.

    It is important to take people as we find them and measure everyone with the same yardstick — no special dispensation and no denial, thank you very much.

    Rant over. Thanks to you all.

  288. audacity, on October 2nd, 2008 at 9:48 am Said:
    Felizarte: agree. r u an artist?!

    I really don’t know, audacity. I am in constant awe of Nature’s Creator. Nature to me is true artistry–including all the peoples and their diversity. I’m glad that people are passionate about politics; if only they won’t consciously try to hurt one another. But I suppose, that is also human nature. I have been interested in presidential politics since Eisenhower/Stevenson; Kennedy/Nixon/; Johnson/Goldwater; Nixon/Humphrey; Nixon/McGovern; Carter/Ford; Reagan/Carter; Reagan/Mondale; Bush/Dukakis; Clinton/Bush; Clinton/Dole; Bush/Gore; Bush/Kerry and 2008?

    I’ve lived a long time. I may even be the oldest one among the posters here.

  289. Corrente has some interesting and different views expressed in posts. I wish some of my favorite writers weren’t banned – but I know where to find them (myiq ) .

    As far as Anglachel goes, she does have good insights at times. I have valued her opinions before and I’m sure I will again. However, the leap made today is wrong.

    Anglachel *should* have directly expressed herself on this blog OR contacted RD to deal with her perception. Writing a hit piece is underhanded and I thought she was above that.

    Removing the Confluence from her blog roll is hers to do, but there is no substitute for being direct and honest in dealing with others. I am most disappointed in her for that.

  290. The banks scam everyone! When housing is unaffordable, to keep the
    bubble going, more people have to be brought in to buy the starter homes. At the end of the bubble, this
    means people who don’t have the means, but many would have had the means
    had the housing prices not been scammed out of reach. Remember the run-up on tulips pricing fell when sanity prevailed and
    no one would pay an exorbitant rate for a tulip.

    The people who were taken in by the tech bubble were mostly middle-
    and upper-income whites. It’s all about human nature. People never think THIS BUBBLE will burst. The housing bubble affected more people of modest income than the tech bubble because that was how the bubble could continue to be inflated. Doesn’t matter what race a person claims. It is all about making maximum profit from the latest bubble.

    We need as a country to start producing quality goods again (rather than selling houses to each other), and to turn our energies into
    reducing our dependence on oil and saving the planet. Stop buying stuff we
    don’t need and build up some reserves in our government and in our own
    portfolios.

  291. I respect Anglachelg a great deal and have learned a lot about politics and economics from her blog. However, I have noticed that she is extremely partisan, in spite of her strong (and valid) objections to Obama himself. In this latest post and in others she basically tars every Republican who ever lived with the r@cist brush which is unfair. I know many Republicans and they are not nearly as monstrous as Anglachelg would have us believe, and they’re not all white either.

    A distinction must be made between the victims of the mortgage frenzy and the perpetrators. Of course there was a lack of oversight by the Republicans. Of course they were turning a blind eye while Wall Street was making obscene profits, but groups like ACORN are equally to blame. Here is a link to another activist group that brags that they helped secure over 2 trillion dollars in loans under CRA. Note that they are located in CA, a state hit very hard by foreclosures.

    http://greelining.org/sections/view/communityreinvestment

    It is naive to assume that lowering the standards for borrowing under CRA wouldn’t resonate with the mortgage market as a whole and lead to lower standards all around. Watch this video to see the result in Southern California.

    http://kcet.org/socal/2008/09/foreclosure-alley.html

  292. Sadly I am not surprised by Anglachel’s pot-shots at this blog. However I have always preferred this blog over hers for superior critical thinking. Also… this blog fosters a great sense of comraderie, and although I do not have time to participate in that personally, the contrast to her more authoritarian style of handling commenters at her own blog speaks for itself.

    Right after Palin was nominated VP I noticed that Anglachel’s writing got pretty strange for a few days… so it was pretty obvious that she had contracted PDS (Palin Derangement Syndrome). And I think her writing has gone mostly downhill since then (why the affirmative action lectures?) I think I understand it though… she is extremely loyal and biased to her own vision of what the Democratic party should be. She is a brilliant poltiical thinker in many ways but her bias limits her objectivity. She is struggling to stay loyal to her Democratic vision, and PUMAs and all this corruption in t he Dem party seems very hard for her to take in.

    As a researcher, one thing that’s always bugged me about her political writing is that she nevers talks about the influence of money on politics overall, she stays focussed on ideology. However in the real world, “follow the money” is a basic research rule, at least it is in my research… and money knows no party loyalty yet rgeatly effects politics. She also does not adress how the two political parties have changed over the years and how they continue to change as demographics, and cultural values shift and change. While I love her vision of what the Dems can be, I do not see that in the real world… she’s classic academic intelligentisa with all the plusses and minusses of that stance.

    As for Corrente, it turns out that I know one of the bloggers over there from the real world… Vastleft is a former work colleague of my husband. Several times Vastleft has emailed me and we have also chatted on the phone. He has a big case of MDS (McCain Derangement Syndrome) and , like Anglachel, tremedous tribal loyalty to the Democratic party combined with hatred of all things Republican. I tried joking about his MDS in an email and he got very defensive. Needless to say he doesn’t email me anymore.

    In closing, I want to take this opportunity to thank all the folks that blog and comment here for making my research such a pleasure!

  293. Why do you still have her blog linked here?
    She does not have your blog linked to hers and she dissed your blog in such a false way.

    I hardly comment here- but your blog is one of my favorites because it aims to tell the truth whatever the truth may be.
    The truth isn’t always what we expect or want it to be- but you always aim to tell it- that’s why I like your blog.

  294. Maybe what we have here is failure to communicate:

    I had some difficulty with Warrior Princess’s comment on Dakinkat’s blog, because of the way the Black Caucus was positioned at the top of her article. That is because; it makes it appear to mean she is primarily concerned about their efforts. This might have been viewed as an unintended racist comment or hidden belief. Or, maybe this was a resonance of the recent TV headshots of congressmen responding to the defeat of the house bill.

    The Black Caucus has been tireless in their efforts to effect change in discriminatory lending practices. In fact, this could be called a cornerstone, in part because it represents one of the beliefs that blacks have held since at least the 60’s. To wit, property ownership is one of the ways that blacks will achieve parity with whites. Anglachel refers to this her article.

    This is a generational thing; families will pass on the gatherings of each generation and accumulate toward the future. In the 60-70’s blacks looked around and found that while whites had been doing this for centuries, slavery and the force of our world had denied them that. Despite personal financial success they were not moving ahead, and fell upon the above tenet as one reason why.

    Despite the fact that I live in a neighborhood, where I have had to rescue a few of those animals, to which Warrior Princess refers, myself, I dislike intensely the blame game that is in progress surrounding my disembarked neighbors. They did the best they knew. A house, for which they paid as much as $379,000, is now worth $140,000. Their brokers, most with honesty, told them, that they could refinance in 2 years. When that time came, the banks would not lend because there was no longer 80% of equity to lend against.

    A bubble’s wall reflects back on everybody inside it. When we were in the ownership bubble it was hard to see who formed it. Now, blame is beginning. Homeownership is a vibrant and important theme for the Black Caucus. As Anglachel apparently is, anyone who cares about it will be highly attuned to possible misrepresentation.

  295. The American people are simply engaging in the proud, decadent process of creating Scapegoats.

    The people who are actually responsible may be powerful, or they may be your friends. So we will burn the smoker, and the boozer, and the black, and the Muslim, and the fattie. The Other is at fault. We can safely displace our anger on someone so much less likely to retaliate. It’s safe, and we don’t damage our social networks.

    Kind of like finding fault with people who want their money back from the Paulson bailout. The people who recieved the “pork” that was “sadly” added to the Senate Bill are taxpayers. They are doing nothing more than demanding something in return for the ludicrious demands placed on them. And so riverdaughter turns them into bad people, people who should just take it, shut up and pay the money, and get nothing for it. But they wanted something for thier portion of the 700 billion dollar bailout.

    Let’s have a ten-minute hate against Pork and Sub-Prime Mortgages.

  296. OMG, anglachel finally revealed her TRUE rah rah cheerleader for “party over principle/ party over country” self. why am I NOT surprised that she misses the forest and sees only the trees? All that is happening is taking America, the melting pot of the world, and the world, to another level of unfoldment by ripping the veil off questions about privilege. Questions about financial privilege, gender privilege, racial privilege, national privilege. Questions over a system which anglachel personally benefits from and wants to stay in place.
    Anglachel has self righteously removed her name from anything related to PUMA and trashes No Quarter and the Confluence. Riverdaughter, you admired her work and considered her an important voice but I must say it is soooo good to KNOW now what she is really about.

  297. Err… Don’t forget to ck the spam box..

    I sent important info to RD…

    Tell

  298. I remember when I stopped having my posts approved at Anglachel’s blog, adn it was when I started disagreeing with her and responding to other commenters instead of her.

    She’d post these long “WHATDOIDO?!?!?!” screeds wherein she angested endlessly about whom-oh-whomever-shall-I-vote-for-woe-iz-mee, and what few comments she allowed in (she allows VERY few comments anymore and has turned into a real martinet over it) were all by people who were spinning in panicked circles over what they could do and who they would vote for and just flat-out panicking in fear over their powerlessness.

    I would try to comment a few times over why I had chosen the way I had chosen — NONE of those commetns made it in, and this is after I had been commeting quite a few times on her posts, and had been engaging in good back-and-forth with other commenters. But the minute I deviated from her dogma, I was shut down and never had a single comment approved again.

    I simply stopped going. She never approves a damn thing, seems top have taken the attitude that anyone who disagrees with her is satanic, and hence I don’t understand why she doesn’t just post and disallow comments on her blog. She doesn’t want to hear back from other people to develop what she thinks, she doesn’t care to foment discussion between her readers, and she thinks anyone who disagrees with her is evil.

    It’s realyl rather sad watching her going off about Stevensonians spinning off theories and living up in their perfect Euclidean plane and ignoring the real world, when she seems so much in love with idea-spinning to the exclusion of conencting it to the world and her actual readers herself.

  299. Hmm. Corrente is mostly Obama supporters now.

  300. With all due respect, folks, I’ve read Anglachel, Jeralynn, and Digby, and I can tell you that none of them understand economics or the banking industry.

    Consequently their posts avoid truly informative discussions of those issues, and rely on emotional responses.

    Jeralynn is busy gossiping about Sarah Palin. Well, that’s all she understands, right now, and her blog posts degenerated as soon as she got back from free massages at the convention with Arianna Huffington. Yuk.

    Digby finds a way to whine about McCain in every topic she chooses, incuding whining “racist dog whistles” when she doesn’t understand the economic or budgetary issues being discussed. And she tolerates the shallow, one-liner responses to anyone who questions Obama’s economic credentials by not moderating comments calling that someone a “Republican c*nt,” when they’re not.

    Anglachel has now jumped into Digby’s game, without addressing the economic corruption issues in dakinakat’s original post.

    Corruption is corruption, whether it’s Black or white, male or female.

    I think, folks, the off-topic discussions by our 3 female blogging Musketeers mentioned above are simply their way to avoid admitting they don’t have the expertise in economics to speak factually on the issues.

    So, if you want emotional gobbledegook, leaning towards gossip about pregnant daughters or implied racism , visit Jeralynn, Digby, or Anglachel. They want to be in the new-and-improved online Village.

    But if you want a fair, rational explanation of issues, giving respect to its readers for making their own decisions AFTER they have actually gathered facts……

    One must read Riverdaughter.

    By the way, RD, I’m a lurker, but I read here every day. My compliments to the quality, which never dips into Jeralynn or Aravosis junior high school gossip.

    Brush it off your shoulders, RD.

    Their traffic is down , and yours is up.

    There’s a reason for that. :)

  301. Anglachel: A mind, a terrible thing to waste.

  302. I wouldn’t worry about it – all that writing and no comments – I was going to leave one but why spoile a perfect zero- I notices my little blog – with my down home everyday 8th grade writing style gets more comments then hers does so- I wouln’t worry about her quitting! your reply has 305 comments to her zip- what’s that tell ya?

    It tells me that she is buying the story that anyone who speaks truth to Obama must be racist, I was on to that crap the first time i heard it – did n’t buy it then and it ain’t growing on me either.

    Have you all checked out my “Our Own Dear Leader ” post today? http://freemenow.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/our-own-dear-leader/

  303. I was truly afraid of this. The lid of Pandora’s box is wide open and all the -isms have flown out. Should Obama win, we are in for an ugly four years.

    Anglachel has often referred to Obama’s base as Whole Foods Nation. I submit that a defining characteristic is the “shopping for a better world” mentality–that we can make the world a nicer place by buying fair-trade coffee, organic cotton t-shirts, and soy yogurt, without questioning ourselves or giving up anything. Another that I see is the “why can’t we all get along” yearning, which ignores the reality of conflict in a pluralistic society.

    Obama is the shopping-for-a-better-world answer to r@cism. Slap a sticker on your car, pull the lever for Obama, call anyone who won’t go along a r@cist, and you’ve struck a blow against evil! It is the mirror image of come-to-Jesus. Confess once and your sins are forgiven forever. The theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer had a term for this, cheap grace. He had extremely dim opinion of slicing through the Gordian knot of sin, as I do of washing one’s hands of centuries of racism with a bumper sticker and a vote.

    Anyone who stands in the way of happy hopey changey unity, like those bitches and homos with their nagging political needs, can just got to hell. There’s a post-racial utopia to build, we hear; shut up get with the program or get lost.

    Sexism will never get the same treatment for a simple reason, the fight against sexism is far more personal. Ask a white liberal, how many blacks are sitting at your dinner table? Ok, how many women? Typically, the answer will be zero and 1+. Real dialogue, thought, effort, compromise, acknowledging the reality of the woman’s point of view, surrendering privileges, and implementing solutions. Is that going to happen any time soon? Mr. Librul wants what his suburban dad had and is pissed he’s not getting that much, much less find himself in a mood to give up more.

    I will leave it to those personally experienced with homophobia to elaborate. I will say that gay rights is a deal-maker or breaker with me. Gays are the canary in the coal mine for women; when discrimination against gays is allowed to stand, the position of women is also weakened.

  304. I always look to your posts for inspiration. In Seattle we obviously have more women politicians than you find on the east coast and it has been that way for a long time. We now have two senators who are women and our governor is female and there are many other women serving in Washington government. One thing that is pretty hard to take is you find there are women in politics and in office who are corrupt or stupid or self serving or who conform to the prevailing sexist attitudes in order to get ahead themselves. I had always thought putting women in charge of government would make government responsive to The People and would get rid of corruption. Nope! It turns out there are about the same percentage of bad women office holders as bad male office holders. So much for my illusions. Still we women need equal representation. The same goes for minorities. The country can’t be great again if we keep entire classes of people from serving in government.

  305. ugsome – Excellent comment!

    Shopping for a better world, indeed. Obama is the ultimate product. Even his followers admit they like him because he wears the right clothes, listens to the right music and drinks the right beer.

    They expect nothing of himas President and they will get nothing if he is elected. He will be just a symbol. They will be able to claim for good and all that they are not r*cist because they voted for a black guy.

    I can’t tell you how many AA’s I’ve already voted for in my 22 years of voting. But for some reason, I only get the get-out-of-r*cial-guilt-free card if I vote for THEIR guy.

  306. Seattlegirl, it’s a very Victorian notion that women assure the moral uplift of society. I wish it were true, but women, being human, disappoint as readily as the men. The 30% solution is simply about critical mass, enough women in power to assure our interests are addressed.

  307. Madamab, Obama is a product, a pawn and an Invislble Man. From Ralph Ellison’s book of that name:

    All my life I had been looking for something, and everywhere I turned someone tried to tell me what it was. I accepted their answers too, though they were often in contradiction and even self-contradictory. I was na?ve. I was looking for myself and asking everyone except myself questions which I, and only I, could answer. It took me a long time and much painful boomeranging of my expectations to achieve a realization everyone else appears to have been born with: That I am nobody but myself. But first I had to discover that I am an invisible man!

    He has said himself (paraphrasing) that he is a blank slate upon whom people project their desires.

    Whenever I think of him I am also reminded of a remark about Hyde Park made by Mike Nichols and Elaine May, who got their start there: “Whites and Blacks, shoulder to shoulder against the lower classes.” That happens to be another characteristic of Whole Foods Nation, obscuring class with color.

  308. “I want them to look in my face and accuse me of racism and Republicanism. And bring *proof*.

    I am beyond disappointed.”

    It will never happen because people like this typically are like the little dog who nips at your heels when you aren’t looking then runs when you turn to see what’s up.

  309. ugsome, great post.

  310. Even Barak Obama admitted in his own book that Black Chicago politicians learn early on, to use the race card to their advantage.

    Citing Kwami Kilpatrick…..although from Detroit, and not Chicago……as an example.

    What I saw in the C-Span tape of the Fannie/Freddie hearings, with members of the CBC saying nothing was wrong, and that attacks on Franklin Raines were motivated by racism, when the OSHEA report from GAO clearly proved he had cooked the books……

    Was playing the race card.

    And I don’t give a rat’s a** what Anglachel thinks of me for saying that.

    Corruption is corruption, regardless of one’s skin color.

    Time for Anglachel to get out of the ivory tower and walk amongst the rest of us.

    Due respect.

  311. I’m very impressed.

  312. […] Thursday: Minds wide open, brains falling out This is a busy morning. I’ve got family coming in from out of town and 10 months of blogging has not done wonders […] […]

  313. While I haven’t seen any racism directed toward African Americans, one thing that should be monitered is the virluent anti Islamic comments I have seen used by a few rather vocal people. It’s wrong and shouldn’t be tolerated, people of the Islamic faith are of a very wide spectrum of beliefs, the Wahabi sect is actually a distinct minority of Muslims, and many Muslims are just as disturbed by them as we nonMuslims are- more, frankly, because these extremists attack other Muslims that follow moderate or even liberal Islamic faiths (yes there is such a thing as religious liberalism in Islam,) far more often than they do our soliders. Benazhir Bhutto lost her life because of those extremists. To make blanket smears on Islamic people is to dishonor people like Benazhir Bhutto (who was a friend of Hillary, by the way) who risk their lives, because, like Hillary, people cry out for their help.

    By the way I’m a Wiccan, and have been for over 20 years. I find the right wing Christian terrorists in our own country just as frightening as Wahabist Muslims. These are people who have shot doctors that provide abortions, have blown up and vandalized abortion clinics, harass women outside abortion clinics, attack and even murder gay people, etc…

    No, I’m not saying Palin or McCain are connected to or even sympathic those domestic terrorists, many of the so called progressive bloggers like Kos, Huffington, etc… try to tie Palin to these people but I’ve heard Palin, and although she is very antichoice I know darn well she would have nothing to do with those type people. Bush is an entirely different matter, he does have connections with people of that mindset, as did Reagan.

    I’m voting Green Party by the way. I am a true blue liberal and having had my candidate’s nomination stolen from her, I’m supporting the party and candidate that represents my values.

    Obama NEVER was a liberal or progressive, nor is Biden. Both have records that match Republican party voting stances much more than Hillary’s does. This progressive website spells it out:

    http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?chamber=Senate

  314. Hmmm. I am a solid moderate Democrat who will wholeheartedly support John McCain in the general election. I am not looking for a political savior. I can find my salvation in church, thank you. What I am looking for in a president is someone that I feel I can trust to do the right thing in these tumultuous times. This quality is not owned solely by Democrats. Barack Obama, be he black, white, purple, green, whatever, does not possess the honesty or the intellect to deserve my vote. John McCain may not be the sharpest tack either, but he does have a record that can be perused. I may not agree with everything that he stands for, but I trust that he will be a strong leader when it comes to protecting the United States from its enemies, which is something that I don’t feel from Obama. Additionally, I want to see change take place in the Democratic party as much as I want to see change in national politics. My vote is not against Barack Obama’s skin color, but against Barack Obama’s perceived weaknesses. That does not make me a r*cist. In my opinion, anyone who sees everything in black and white terms is actually displaying r*cist tendencies. All Republicans are not bad, and all Democrats are not good. Anyone who believes otherwise is being intellectually dishonest.

    For those who believe that this election will go to Barack Obama, knock it off already. There are just over thirty days before the election. The polls are being manipulated to make Obama appear that he has insurmountable support. I don’t believe that he does. Many people are still not sure about who he is. He has not won them over. And when one considers the many Democrats who will not support him, one must question the polls. The people that I know who are reliable Democrats are not supporting him. i have never experienced this before in a general election. Many of you probably know other Democrats who are not supporting him. I believe that the percentage of Democrats not supporting Obama is higher than what is being reported. I also believe that John McCain will manage to hold on to most of the Republican identified voters, especially now that Sarah Palin is his vice presidential candidate. If John McCain performs well during the remaining two debates, then I believe he will win the presidency. There is too much garbage in Barack Obama’s background, so don’t fret an Obama victory. And most importantly, ignore the rants that come from the Democratic left. They have never represented a majority of the American population, and they never will. They are their own worse enemies.

  315. As a long time reader but infrequent commenter, I was moved to learn the backstory of some of the comments that began to pop up in the blogosphere recently. For my measly two cents, I would like to add that, while there is really nothing new I CAN add to most of the insightful comments here, I can comfortably state that neither RD’s writing nor her in-person demeanor has EVER hinted that she is anything but extremely bright, articulate, and equitable in her thinking. There is absolutely NO r@(!$m in any fiber of her being. Unlike so many self annointed “liberals” with delusions of grandeur vis a vis misplaced “compensatory guilt”, closeted racism and thorough cluelessness about ANY other culture besides their own [and sometimes not even that!], RD, and just about everyone I see in here is the Real Deal. I could state many reasons why I know this, but I won’ t belabor the point. The fact is, RD is the kind of person that would generously share both her thoughtful insight AND her last bite of polenta with you, and THAT’S saying something!

    ;))

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