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The Somerby Speaketh…

McCain Was Mean, La La La!

McCain Was Mean, La La La!

and let’s just say, he’s not too happy with the state of the Obamasphere.

If you’ve never read The Daily Howler, Bob Somerby’s blog, you are missing perhaps the sharpest and most thorough media critic in the blogosphere. He is a Democrat, and that perspective comes through quite clearly: but he is not afraid to critique so-called progressive bloggers when they play games with their readers. Case in point: The revisionism of the Obama Boyz regarding the debate between Obama and McCain last week.

On September 29th, Somerby wrote about Joe Klein, Josh Marshall and Duncan Black, aka Atrios, and how their opinions on the debate seemed to change as time went by. As these progressive luminaries watched (or listened to) the two combatants battle it out, not one of them mentioned the way McCain treated Obama – with condescension, rudeness and insults. That’s because this behavior Joe, Josh and Duncan are supposedly so upset about did not happen. If anything, Obama was rude to McCain, constantly interrupting him. But so what? Political opponents often behave badly towards each other. Certainly Obama has hardly been a model of courteousness towards any of his opponents. But hey, he’s “likeable enough.”

During the live-blogging of the debate, none of the three bloggers (hilariously dubbed the “Three Tenors” by Somerby) seemed to notice McCain’s horrible behavior. But by Saturday, they were all singing from the same hymnal. McCain was meeeeeeaaaaaan to Obama. He was condescending and small; glowering, even; certainly not presidential. Obama was, of course, saintly by comparison.

I have to quote Somerby directly regarding Atrios, the Third Tenor, because, well, I hung out at his place for so long and now am completely disenchanted with him and many of the commenters there:

ATRIOS (9/27/08): Debate

Well, due to travel hell I was in a car during the debate. Caught some of it on the radio, though it’s hard to make any judgments without seeing the visuals.

I understand McCain has a wee bit of a problem looking Obama in the eye? Pretty weird.

This is what mainstream journalists used to do; now, “liberal leaders” ape their conduct. By the way: Do you think the progressive/Dem world will ever develop a winning politics with leaders like this at the helm? [Good question, Bob.]

The perfesser had heard the Official Story about McCain’s vile conduct. But he hadn’t actually seen the debate; he had only heard some of it on the radio. “It’s hard to make any judgments without seeing the visuals,” he said.

But fish gotta swim, and birds gotta fly–and hacks have to treat you like rubes. At 9:42, the perfesser posted a bit of snark about the radio bits he had heard, though he said nothing about the eye contact. But sure enough! But by 1:13 that afternoon, the perfesser was quite outraged too. “Condescension” made for a wonderful title. You’ll rarely see such perfect hackistry:

ATRIOS (9/27/08): Condescension

Visuals aside, what did come through loud and clear on the radio bits I heard was McCain’s incredibly condescending attitude towards Obama. Not a mindreader, so I don’t know what he really thinks/feels, but he sounded like he thought Obama was on par with dog shit.

How weird! As it turns out, Atrios had been struck, in real time, by McCain’s “incredibly condescending attitude towards Obama.” Indeed, McCain had “sounded like he thought Obama was on par with dog shit.” And yet, for some reason, the perfesser forgot to mention this in his original posts. He only got around to recording this judgment on Saturday afternoon.

And then Somerby gives his summation of the Three Tenors’ artistry:

To all appearances, this is the work of three perfect hacks–people filled with contempt and condescension toward you. Once the Official Story clunked into place, they ran to pretend that they had felt the Official Approved Reactions all along.

BINGO. It’s called “creating a media narrative,” and it’s the reason why so many of us liberal types refuse to watch the mainstream media pundits. They pick a preferred presidential candidate, then they focus on some incredibly insignificant detail about that candidate’s opponent – usually, whatever the preferred candidate wants them to focus on. We PUMAs used to go to Josh, Atrios, Arianna, Aravosis and so many others to get the “unbiased” story, but now we cannot do so, precisely because the fauxgressive blogosphere has made a practice of doing exactly the same thing. During the presidential primary, these previously admired bloggers chose Obama and tore into Hillary Clinton like a group of howling wolverines – even taking the extraordinary step of aggressively purging dissenters from their ranks.

The next day, Atrios responded to Somerby. He was Not Amused. And neither was Somerby.

THIRD TENOR SPEAKS: Atrios says we were unfair when we discussed his post-debate musings (see THE DAILY HOWLER, 9/29/08). That’s always possible, of course—and all things being equal, it’s better to stay away from people’s hard-to-limn motives. For what it’s worth, though, we have to say that his case is a bit underwhelming. And Jesus Christ! Could he possibly avoid running so fast to crouch behind his wife?

ATRIOS (9/29/08): The main reason I stopped reading Somerby awhile ago was his tendency to strongly imply/assume bad faith among nominal allies when often more innocent explanations are the correct ones.

The “any judgments,” in the first quoted post, referred to, in my mind, how I imagined the debate would impact the race, something which I have yet to deliver an opinion on because I never saw the debate aside from a couple of clips

And Mrs. Atrios, who Bob has yet to go after, can attest to the fact that McCain’s extremely condescending attitude towards Obama was the subject of our debate discussion as we listened in the car.

We have no idea who said what to whom about what topic, in what vehicle. And the worried professor can feel quite sure that we won’t “go after” his wife. (Truly disgraceful.) But we’re sick to death of fly-weights like this—of their lazy, insulting, condescending performance. Just for the record, we were talking about you, Brother Atrios. You, and your work. You alone.

 Somerby goes on to say this, which is the heart of the matter:

Starting in the summer of 2002, we began to express an unfortunate theme, one we had only begun to ponder: We began suggesting to readers that their nominal allies are often not actual allies. (We tepidly mentioned E. J. Dionne first.) This takes us back to a political era which may now be nearing an end, as American institutions disintegrate. But looking ahead to what may become a vastly changed political landscape, we’ll suggest to readers that the growing inanity of the liberal web makes that entity no ally either. Increasingly, the liberal web is written by and for fly-weights. You’re handed silly, childish tales—silly tales that will make you feel good.

You’re told that you play on a team called The Shirts—and that The Shirts are very good people. You’re told about the vile team called The Skins—and you’re handed endless proof of their troubling ways. Just yesterday, the Post’s Shankar Vedantam did a nice job describing the general way this process works, as he has done many times in the past. (His weekly pieces are true must-reads.) But increasingly, the liberal web is written for rubes. People like Atrios serve you crap sandwiches, assuming you’ll wolf them straight down. (emphasis added)

What Somerby is saying here is that it’s a matter of trust. We PUMA types do not trust the Democrats simply because they are Democrats any more. We do not trust the media. We do not trust the fauxgressive blogosphere after its craptastic, misogynistic furor during the primaries. And we do not trust Barack Obama or his allies in Congress, because he has given us ample reasons to distrust him. We have come to realize that “a nominal ally” is, more often than not, a person who gives you a shot of anaesthetic before stabbing you in the back.

And this is the tragedy of the Obamasphere; that they were good enough to gain a high profile, but not good enough to use it to influence the political process in a positive way. May the second incarnation of the liberal web be more successful, and less prone to serving crap sandwiches.

435 Responses

  1. I thought for sure that you would pick up on this, madamab! Good work.

  2. Hee hee hee, SweetSue! Thou knowest me well. 🙂

    Somerby is great. Of course, if you are a knee-jerk partisan, it’s kind of painful to read him sometimes…

  3. Somerby is one of the few of my old favorite blogs I look to daily. So glad you brought this forward. We are not alone on this site. Thank God!

  4. Somerby has the second best blog on the internet. This is the best one. The Daily Howler runs a strong second.

    Somerby is heroic!

  5. WigWag – I hope RD sees your comment – that is an incredible compliment to her. 🙂

  6. Call the Commission on Presidential Debates at (202) 872-1020 to voice your complaints about Gwen Ifill Pro Obama book writer as the debate moderator for the VP debate.

    Yea, they get all pro in the TANK Obama people to cover the presidential race and they complain of mean. HA!

  7. Woman Voter – I thought they had principles at one time, but it turned out they were just pushing their own agenda. The Precious or bust!

  8. awesome post. some of us realized this quite a long time ago, of course. They’re not only fly weights, they are despicable liars. they deserve the readers they now attract.

  9. Somerby is terriffic but the diarists on this blog are simply amazing in their talent. I second WigWag.

    I know I have said it more than once, but the posters on this blog are fantastic. I learn something new everyday and they constantly make me think and laugh. Two of the best traits available!!!

  10. I have a feeling somerby would have a few choice words for us as well, so I’ll refrain from heaping him with tons of praise…..

  11. I’m glad Somerby posted that. I was worried that he’d gotten on the Obus, good to know he’s still sane.

  12. and more like the three blind mice instead of the three tenors imho….

  13. gary: Who could EVER find fault with us????????????

  14. Gary – So what? He’s entitled to his opinion, is he not?

    Besides, we are escapees from the Obamasphere, not members of it. We left them because we agree with Somerby.

    RD does not set herself up as some be-all and end-all of the “progressive” movement. And, she is honest and principled, as we all try to be.

  15. Garychapelhill – You’re so right – the Three Tenors are amazingly talented.


  16. we were talking about ourselves Pat. you, of course, are perfect! 🙂

  17. My friend that is a banker at Wachovia said they now have 2 kinds of customers – ones that are racing in to retrieve their money because they heard it was going to go to the bailout or the phanthom customer.

    The media has really f*cked us the the “chicken little” bs.

  18. gary: Of course I am! And some of you others are close.

  19. madamab…don’t get me wrong. I think he is great. He is ten times smarter than atrios, marshall, digby or any of those fauxgressive elitists. He still is an elitist though….

  20. madamab, on October 1st, 2008 at 3:03 pm Said:

    Woman Voter – I thought they had principles at one time, but it turned out they were just pushing their own agenda. The Precious or bust!

    Yup, it doesn’t matter that many of us are saying

    It is very disturbing. 😦

  21. OT, but I think we ought to produce a movie made up of madamab’s plays. You know, like blogtalk radio? This would be blogcinema, or something.

  22. and I’m a hothead sometimes…among many other faults 🙂

  23. masslib: As long as you remember that any part created for Nasty Nancy is already mine. madamab promised.

  24. gary: You are no Mawm but you are adorable!

  25. and I’ve been working on my chicago accent for the axelrod parts…I’ll even grow a mustache and shave my head ….

  26. Masslib – I think I’m going to try to get them published after the election. That’s a fun idea, though!


    Gary – please don’t get us all involved in listing our faults. We will be here all day! Only Pat will be exempt.


  27. pat, is that a compliment? 😉

  28. Gwen Ifill has offered to write up all my perfections as soon as her Obama tome is complete!

    Mikulski is speaking (or ranting) now.

  29. gary: Yes!

  30. PJ – you know you are my Pelosi. The part cannot be played by anyone else!

  31. Mikulsi: This is all Wall Street’s fault.

  32. madamab!!! I first read your comment and thought you said “please don’t get us ivolved in listing your faults, we will be here all day” LOL I was about to start to cry..he he….

  33. PJ – What is Mikulski saying? Her accent reminds me of home in Bawlmer.


  34. I’m serious. It would be brilliant. Really.

    By the way, this is hysterical:

  35. I was born to play Nancy. Evil, lying witch that she is.

  36. Gary – I am laughing at home by myself in front of my computer screen! And it’s ALL YOUR FAULT!


  37. Mikulsli is screaming about restoring integrity and her own opposition to deregulation but she will vote YES.

  38. Dodd just congratulated Mikulski for her passion. He must be trolling for votes today.

  39. Back in moderation once again.

  40. do you know when the vote is scheduled for?

  41. Thank you madamab for this article.

    I hadn’t been aware of the dailyhowle. But after reading some of somerby’s work that basically sums up what’s going on with Hillary Dems and their refusal to go along with BS just for the sake of having a D- in front of it, I’ll be bookmarking it.

  42. FYI-

    I voted early today for McCain/Palin in Akron, Ohio.

    I felt not the slightest bit guilty either.

  43. gary: Sometime tonight. Dodd is allowing people to speak then he will sum up the reason for this bailout (that alone should be interesting) then they will take the vote.

  44. Please don’t grow a serial killer mustache, gary. Please!

  45. SOD: That is the baggage I carry.

  46. Gary – can you get Pat out of moderation? I can’t do it.


    SOD – LOL!

  47. My favorite speaker during the House debate on the bill was D-OH Marcy Kaptur. If you have not seen this WATCH IT. It was as much the secretive backroom dealing by Pelosi and others that killed the bailout as it was anything. Pelosi and friends shut out even other Democrats, much less Republicans. There was no normal legislative process.

    I know we need a solution, I am not stupid, and am hoping the senate will listen to Hillary on many things. BUT:

    I want hearings. I want economists on the floor of congress arguing both sides and presenting solutions. I want transparency. I want hard numbers, not a 700 billion figure that even Paulson admits they pulled out of their ass based on nothing at all. I want the experts with NO vested interest in this to speak, and that does not include Goldman Sachs CEO’s.

    I will NOT support any bill with a gun to my head. You hear me? Never. Never again. If they want my support, then give me INFO and a clear and transparent legislative process with OPEN debate. Otherwise, I will oppose every damn bill they come up with, and call my senators and reps screaming about it. I can survive a tanked economy. I’ve been poor, and can do it again if need be. Can they? I am calling the fucking bluff. NO MORE SECRETIVE, BACKROOM DEALT LEGISLATION.

    Here’s Marcy Kaptur, kicking ASS:


  48. destardi – Good for you! You voted your conscience!

  49. destardi – you are a true Patriot! Congratulations.

  50. However I vote, and certainly not for Obama, is a protest vote against both him and the DNC.

  51. *******AD ON CRAIG’S LIST********




  52. The original bailout bill was awful. The House actually made several major improvements, including erasing funds for Acorn. The Senate version is new and revised. HRC has had significant input. I think there is a fundamental liquidity crisis and that was a huge part of the Great Depression because it led to an accelerated downward spiral in all asset valuations which led to a huge business slowdown, which led to huge worker layoffs. We have many safeguards in place that will brake that kind of economic disaster but the present situation if not corrected in some way will mean that the economy will be on hold for some time. If Obama is elected maybe that will be a good thing. If HRC says we need to intervene then I believe her when I would not believe any of the others. And that is what she says. We need to see the Senate bill. I think people are ascribing aspects to it that simply do not exist.

  53. Pat – you have declared for McCain/Palin. Do I need to find the video?????????///

  54. Carol: I am not “supporting” them in the true sense. They are my opposition vote against You Know Who.

  55. Dodd did not mention McCain as being one of the speakers today. Interesting.

  56. Pat – you could be a politician.

  57. I do not support McCain financially, emotionally, or politically. Just my disgust at what the Dem Party has put up as the nominee. If this were Hillary, I would be too busy out there working my damndest for her election. Today I am stirring sauce for my spaghetti.

  58. Jangles – HRC is the only one I trust on the economy. I am willing to let her be my guide. If she says this bill is worth fighting for, then so be it.

    My sense is that she is going to push for more long-term solutions after the immediate liquidity crisis is taken care of. Such as, HOLC and her other proposals.

    I think there was some definite quid pro quo in the Senate. Let Hillary be in charge of the long-term fixes, and she will get this bill passed.

  59. Oh, and I like Sarah Palin much better than Bending Biden.

  60. Carol, on October 1st, 2008 at 3:32 pm Said:
    Pat – you could be a politician.

    I understand the differentiation she’s making…However, after seeing the DNC do this to Hillary, I AM supporting McCain.

    From the things I’ve read, McCain HAS reached across the isle, he HAS bucked Bush, and Reagan. Hillary had also done this. Uhbama has not.

    And we can’t continue a streak of complete partisanship with all of our issues stressing our country to its limits.

    It DISGUSTS me that they shoved Hillary aside; I would have been one happy camper voting today if it was for Hillary, but all I felt selecting McCain was my sense of duty.

  61. madamab, let us hope the idiots listen to her. What I hear coming from her is not that it’s a good bill, but that it’s better than nothing, and better than the House bill.

  62. This is what I would advise Sarah Palin to say if asked once more her experience as a VP candidate:

    “Look, take a peek at what is currently sitting in congress. Are they anymore experienced in offering counsel or doing any better than I? Come on, these dolts are useless! At least I offer a fresher perspective and have as yet not been tainted by special interests. The mess we are currently in has been brought about by many of these same fools who are questioning my ability. Yes, I can do as well or even better than what we are presently looking at as leaders.”

    She can clean this answer up any way she wishes but the sentiment stands. They are idiots.

  63. WMCB – I think she is too savvy a politician to give something for nothing.

    I expect her to collect her dues shortly after the bill passes!


  64. This concretizes a good deal of what I had been feeling; for this entire campaign. It used to seem a lot easier–we were the liberals, the progressives, and we were the good side; the other side, the neocons, the right-wing, were the bad side. Well, I haven’t changed my mind about the latter, although I see that some of the changes to the miserable bailout bill which are decent–like increased FDIC insurance–come from the Republicans. But the Left, our presumed friends, are now mostly a bunch of nerdy yuppies who have little connection to the lives of working people, or anyone older than 40. They are like political New Agers, dreamy, self-righteous people who have somehow latched onto the idea of Obama as something new and wonderful. And just like the people they always hated on the Right, they are narrow-minded, punitive, refusing to tolerate dissent.

    There are so many people I used to admire and internet places I used to visit, which are now anathema. I never thought I could hate the New York Times as much as I do now. I feel as if “my side” has changed in the night to something else, that I am not on that side anymore; not on the other side; not knowing where I am to locate myself. Probably nowhere, as I feel that my Democratic Party has betrayed me and people who reflect my ideals; and that it is now run by fools and hacks, who are far more interested in their version of noblesse oblige than in relating to the majority of Americans. I will make one prediction: The next President after this upcoming one will be a populist. He may well be a rightward populist lilke Huckabee, but he or she will try to appeal to Main Street. This is what Obama and his band of contemptuous and contemptible enablers in the media will have wrought.

  65. I like to think that Hillary would do the right thing regardless.

  66. They expect to pass the vote at around 7pm.

    Dodd, believe it or not, is in high dudgeon. Like he had nothing whatsoever to do with it. OMG!

  67. Dodd: It was the bankers and the tycoons that brought us to this crisis.

  68. The bankers how gave you a sweetheart mortgage deal, Chris?

  69. William: Brilliant as always.

  70. I can’t believe I actually sent Dodd $100 last year.

  71. Mawm: Your return is included in the bailout bill. Why not, everything else is.

  72. Dodd: The congress would be willing to give up their own jobs in place of us. I am gagging right now.

  73. Dodd: I warned of this two years ago. Such hypocrisy.

  74. Dodd is now on a boilerplate rant. I guess we are all supposed to be impressed.

  75. Mawm – I liked Dodd too. Sigh. It took me a while to realize who the real Democrat in the race was.

  76. Note to everyone: Do not go after Hillary. You will look like an amateur.

  77. Who is going after Hillary?

  78. I gave Dodd money because he said he would fillibuster telecom immunity in the FISA bill. This was when they voted on it last year. Not only did he not filibuster it, but he voted FOR the ammendment that included it. The bill was struck down, though. I assume he voted for the FISA bill this summer which did have telecom immunity in it. The bottom line, Dodd is a liar.

  79. Regency – LOL! No kidding. Let her close with a flourish.

    It’s like letting Britney Spears sing after Jennifer Hudson.

  80. Dodd is no dummy. He knows his stuff. Yet he goes and supports Obama. Why, why, why?

  81. Pat J: Go behind Hillary.

  82. Dodd: Barney Frank, Pelosi, and others have made us proud. Lordy, lordy.

  83. Regency: I am not following you.

  84. I was saying that it doesn’t pay to speak after Hillary speaks because she has it down cold.

    Make sense?

  85. Regency: Gotcha! She has already spoken. Much off the top of her head. Fantastic. All those following are so so.

  86. Sounds like Dodd is endorsing HOLC.

  87. I agree with Pat J – these people who have been good Dems in the past all seem to follow Obama down the path to corruption.

    Does he have something on them? Is he offering them something irresistible? Or is he just bringing out their weaknesses?

  88. Coburn from OK is speaking.

  89. PJ- Dodd is endorsing Hillary’s HOLC? Toldja she’d get something in return.


  90. Coburn: Congress is like a physician practicing malpractice. Obviously voting NO.

  91. Pat, thank you. I really think that Dodd went with Obama because he and others convinced themselves that “the Clintons” were divisive and polarizing, and that Obama would somehow bring people together. And I do think that there is an element of self-righteous virtuousness involved in supporting and helping the youngish sort of articulate Black person, giving him the helping hand. Democrats love to feel virtuous and inclusive, to their ultimate demise.

  92. Coburn is defending the constitution. Like he ever did when Bush was dismantling it piece by piece. Hypocrisy.

  93. Coburn: The people of the US need to direct their anger at the US Congress! It is a system of doing business as usual. Wow! Someone finally says it from the well.

  94. This guy is winding up and he is insisting on congress being the bad guy, Not Bush, not Clinton but he congress. Yaayy!!

  95. Coburn: Congress is committing malpractice. Fatal errors were committed by the congress.

  96. I usually think of Coburn as an idiot. But he is saying all the things we have on this blog. Amazing.

  97. Calling on Mrs. Atrios, smooth move, Duncan. Sheesh.

  98. Seriously – Yes, that was particularly weaselly of Atrios. What a weak response.

  99. Fantastic! It’s what Somerby does best! He unearthed birth of memes in 2000 when it was Gore being …Gored.

  100. One thing I really like about Palin is that she saw corruption in her party and she didn’t just go along with it. She fought it and brought it out in the open. She didn’t just go along in the hopes of getting a higher office some day.

  101. Coburn is an idiot. He sterilized women without their permission. he hates the federal government and basically thinks they should never spend a dollar in any circumstance. he’s one of the One’s favorite Senators.

  102. Calling on Mrs. Atrios, smooth move, Duncan. Sheesh.

    Blame the women…or at least hide behind them.

  103. Can we also get my comments out of moderation? Thanking you in advance!

  104. GQ – Atrios really disappointed me. I’m glad to know I wasn’t the only one.

  105. “He sterilized women without their permission”

    Look like O has found an HHS Secretary!

  106. They are like political New Agers, [aka Oprah] dreamy, self-righteous people who have somehow latched onto the idea of Obama as something new and wonderful. And just like the people they always hated on the Right, they are narrow-minded, punitive, refusing to tolerate dissent.

    There are so many people I used to admire and internet places I used to visit, which are now anathema. I never thought I could hate the New York Times as much as I do now. I feel as if “my side” has changed in the night to something else, that I am not on that side anymore; not on the other side; not knowing where I am to locate myself.

    I love William! I’ve always enjoyed your posts at the former place we used to post that shall remain nameless (starts with a “T” and an “M”), and you express how I feel yet again with great eloquence. I am adrift too. I despise the Dem hypocrites, and yet, I do not identify with Republican ideology or values…I’m a Hillary lover, pushed aside with my candidate.

  107. “Looks like O has found his HHS Secretary!”

    Nonsense. Obama would make sure that Coburn checked with the woman’s husband and pastor before involuntary sterilization!

    fif – You will have a new place to go soon, and it’s not to the Repubs…do not lose faith in the solidness of the core American principles that we stand for. 🙂

  108. “And just like the people they always hated on the Right, they are narrow-minded, punitive, refusing to tolerate dissent.”

    That is what scares me. Look at the (non) response to Obama trying to use law enforcement to cripple free speech in MO. He gets a free pass on the same things that make everyone fear Bush. If he decided to launch 7 wars during his administration, 90% of the people who marched before would be cracking down on the remaining 10% with billy clubs because Obama saves. There are absolutely no checks on this guy. He can take Bush’s agenda a step further and nobody will say one word.

  109. Forgive me for noting that I dealt with this in my humble blog. I call the game played by Atrios, Josh and Klein the “Gorilla Gambit.” This gambit used to be used only by the right, but now the lefties are getting in on it.

    Here’s the template:

    1. Candidate Sam Simple gives a major speech. Everyone applauds. Even commentators biased toward the opposition party have little to say except “Nice job.”

    2. A few hours later, the Head Rovian of the opposing team fixes on a Line of Attack. He may choose the Line of Attack purely at random — perhaps by throwing darts at a wall. The attack does not have to make a whole lot of sense, and it need not have any relationship to anything Sam actually did. THWAP! The dart hits the wall, skewering a slip of paper. On the note, these words are scrawled:

    “In his speech, Sam Simple sounded like a insane gorilla.”

    Thinks the Head Rovian: “Hm. ‘Insane Gorilla.’ Has a nice ring. Yeah, that’ll do.”

    There really wasn’t anything particularly gorilla-like about anything Sam did — but who cares? The Line has been chosen.

    3. The Line of Attack is faxed to the army of propagandists. Where necessary, coin changes hands.

    4. The propagandists do their work. “Wow! Did you catch that Sam Simple last night? It didn’t occur to me at first, but now that I think about it — he really sounded like an INSANE GORILLA!”

    The radio propagandists start playing ape howl sound effects, while their sidekicks make King Kong jokes. On the web, the anti-Sam stalwarts repeat the same attack line, word for word, decorating their web-pieces with cute illustrations of Magilla Gorilla. Same thing in print: “Perhaps Sam Simple should change his name to Sam Simian.”

    5. Very soon, people forget what Sam actually said or did. They reformat memory to conform with the constantly repeated Line of Attack. Soon, even people who like Sam start muttering: “I kinda wish he’d tone down on all the monkey stuff, you know?” Even Sam’s advisers fret about how to make their guy seem less ape-like.

    Sam is, in short, thrown off his game.

    This is how they did it to Gore all throughout 2000.

    They did the same thing to Kerry. (The progs are still doing it to Kerry: Same shit; different propagandists.)

    The Obots did it to Hillary throughout 2008.

    And now they are doing it to McCain

  110. Very good, Joseph! I agree that is exactly what they do. I can’t believe my former hangouts have been taken over by the Rovian freepers of the Left, but that’s what has happened.

  111. The only difference is, McCain has the real Rove on his side. I don’t think he will be falling for the gambit.

  112. Yeah, that’s about right, Joseph. Frustrating to see our “side” using the tactic.

  113. I just made my pumapac call and may the viewers see through this latest Barky propaganda!

  114. Our economy is on the edge. Saveable, but on the edge. More important, the two-party system, fraught with “party politics” rather than duty to the country, is also on the edge. It’s time that congress realize that the country they serve is more important than the party label they claim. Maybe we get rid of party primaries and go to independent primaries, where everyone runs, regardless of party. top two vote getters have runoff election on the second tuesday of November.

    keep the electoral college, as it is there to protect the voice of the smaller states, to a degree.


  115. Gawd – I’m so fucking frustrated with the way these CRIMINALS are sleazing their way out of this by blaming repubs AND sticking us taxpayers (voters) with the bill.

    The MSM is either too stupid or totally in the tank for Obama to do any actual journalism and tell the public WTF has brought us to this point.

    I’m gonna double my xanax, wait, triple my dose tonight, wait, right now. I’m gonna triple it twice later.

  116. kitchen – Well, we definitely need to do something. Your ideas are very interesting…I would personally prefer to get rid of the electoral college. The small states are greatly overrepresented at this point. One person, one vote is my motto.

  117. I am tired of the finger-pointing…the real culprit is Reagonomics. Anyone who bought into that trickle-down crap should be kicked out of office.

    Trickle-UP economics is what works. That’s what the New Deal is all about.

  118. Palin on Hannity Radio now!

  119. Hannity has found an interview with Gwen Ifill discussing Palin’s qualifications with 5 kids to take care of.

  120. The new senate bill is 451 pages and has such important things in it as: EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY CHILDREN.



  121. Obama using his speaking time this afternoon in the US Senate for a campaign speech.

    He’s off on a tangent now, Now he’s talking about providing broad band lines now. WTF?

    His comments today are very similar to his Reno speech from yesterday.

    Now he’s qouting FDR for over 1 minute of his 10 minute speech.


    He also called Harry Reid, Majority Leader “Lee”


  122. Hey guys – Just saw that Obama was taking illegal campaign contributions from people in America AND overseas.

    Obama and Illegal Contributions

    No wonder he refused to take public financing, the way he promised.

  123. SOD – Amen!

  124. Sarah Palin is on Sean Hannity radio right now.
    She sounds fine and says she is ready for tomorrow. Talking about Gwen Iffel.

  125. They are all a bunch of ratfuck bastards and should be physically throw down the steps of the Capital building.

  126. ew – Do I sound angry?

  127. Bombshell: Obama Neck Deep in Breaking Campaign Finance Scandal

    Ficticious donors like “Mr. Good Will” and “Doodad Pro” exceeded legal contributions and Obama has received more than $30 million from citizens in Iran, Abu Dhabi, Beijing, and Fallujah. Looks like Citizen of the World will be elected by his fellow citizens of the world. Too bad there weren’t more Americans.


  128. mambopurr – you sound righteous, in the best way.

    So Hannity listeners, did Palin have a comment on Ifill’s bias and/or conflict of interest?

  129. SOD – It’s good to be Obama!

    Thirty million bucks is a lot of immunity, though.

    Maybe we should call Hillary’s office and tell her that the One is breaking the law.

  130. LIVE on TV – The House of Representatives – each member has been tossed down the steps to an angry mob waiting at the bottom with torches and pitchforks. The members were then dragged off to a guillotine* (spellcheck that, not a word I use often)

  131. can anyone tell me what year the ethics committee changed?
    used to be thay actually used the committee to protect the citizens from unethical behavior by a politician. now they use it as an attack tool to remove opposition.

  132. Well, i’m for universal broadband.

  133. mambopurr – never let it be said that C-Span is boring!

  134. Did he say anything about the HOLC?

  135. Here, here, madam!

  136. The xanax is finally starting to work, I’ll take another handful in a fewwwwww ,../



  137. yes but is universal broadband really the topic on everyone’s minds right now?

  138. Go dastardi — no early voting where I am, but I will be doing the same!

  139. What did Palin say about Ifill?

  140. perries – No, but I’m sure AT&T was quite grateful for Obama’s support, as always…

  141. No, but it’s a good public works program if not made a boondoggle for the telcoms. And, we are going to need that kind of spending to get out of this mess.

  142. mambo i hope you’re going to share!

  143. Sandra Bernhard ousted from fundraiser over Palin comments:


    Booted by Rosie’s Place.
    Warms my black little heart.

  144. Obama’s speech on the floor of the US Senate was nothing but a campaign stump speech.

    He was saying things like, “I know some of you may not vote for this and I understand.”

    Now is that the kind of speech to rally support for a Bill that the Democrats are saying needs to be passed to help solve, according to Obama, THE greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression?

    It was simply blah blah blah and more blah blah blah
    from Oblahma. It was all about him.

    Obama’s words on the floor of the US Senate today are further proof that it is all about Obama.

    I. I. I. Me. Me. Me.

    My God, Obama is such a lightweight.

    When will McCain be speaking?

  145. He was saying things like, “I know some of you may not vote for this and I understand.”

    Now THAT’s leadership!

    [shoots self in face]

  146. madamab, on October 1st, 2008 at 5:29 pm Said:
    perries – No, but I’m sure AT&T was quite grateful for Obama’s support, as always…

    Oh good one madamab. Makes me wonder if BO has a double secret AT&T endorsement contract. :-/

  147. perries – It’s not a secret. Remember, AT&T sponsored the Democratic Convention this year, right after the telecom immunity bill passed.

    And of course, Axelrod is very tight with AT&T as well.

  148. New McCain Ad – good, but we need some 527’s hitting hard.

  149. catarina – I would if I could 😉

    My problem is that Obama will be my CIC, lord knows it’s been bad enough with Bush but can you imagine Secretary of State Bill Ayers, Secretary of the Treasury Franklin Rains, Secretary of Defense Maxine Waters, etc??????

    Where did that fucking xanax bottle go?

  150. Got it

  151. Joe Biden’s repeated gaffes are not accidental, they are actually serving to cover his real shortcomings.

    When he said that Iraq ought to be partitioned and divided, when he voted against defending Kuwait, and so on, bad ideas about real issues are hidden. His fake, apparently silly gaffes allow his defenders to say, ‘oh, that Joe, you know he just says any thing that pops into his mind without thinking.”

    Biden’s recent gaffes are not accidental. They are camoflage for his genuine mistakes in judgement. We talk about them in lieu of his real errors.

  152. Fuzzy had a busy 1st of the month at work I noticed that Oil prices are falling because a large statistically significant increase in inventories of oil gasoline and a less than expected drop in distilates-(read Home Heating Oil and Diesel fuel) .

    The funny thing is the Brilliant minds at OPEC said dont worry Inda and China’s demand will make up for any fall off in US consumption. Well India had a big drop in consumption and China has trended down since the end of the Olympic in its thirst for Oil.

    Now for more bad news Japan has reduced its oil consumption by 8.9% in one month. The US is down about 5.4% . I can feel little pitty for the 11 member group tonight.

    Experts in energy and myself are predicting $ 60- $80 Oil by January regaurdless of the type of winter we have.

    See when the American Economy gets an economic head cold-the rest of the world comes down with economic Pnenumonia.

    Did I miss any other pillars of what is left of US Industry and Finance go down the crapper?

  153. rofl SOD!

    Oh yes the convention sponsorship on the heels of the FISA vote betrayal was unforgettable, or is unforgivable the word I’m looking for. Innnnteresting item about Axelrod – I did not know that. Also the busy ginning of various ersatz ‘concerned citizen’ front groups – very ACORN.

    madamab – I never got a chance to tell you – hearkening back to a piece you wrote a couple of weeks ago – I worked at Wendy’s as a teen also. Thank god we had no inside-out program (wtf??). I still have the visor.

  154. Heading out to Ohio to vote. I intend to just hang out until one of those Obama buses pulls up, offers me some cash and lunch, and then go pull the lever for McCain.

    Does anyone know which state I should head to after that? I don’t want to have to back track.

    McCain/Palin 2009

  155. do you really think i’m gonna salute that pusillanimous policrat pup?

  156. perries – OMG, really! You were lucky. I must say I still prefer the food to Mickey D’s.


  157. Hi fuzzy!

  158. A Priest and the deacon went fishing, the Priest caught a really nice fish and the deacon yelled out “Look at the size of that son of a bitch!”

    The Priest was shocked, the deacon thought fast and told the Priest it whas a fish the locals call the “son of a bitch fish”, so when we get back to shore I’ll clean this son of a bitch. The Priest said, “let’s take this son of a bitch back to Sister Mary Francis.

    When they got back to the parsonage, you might as well know the Priest brought in that son of a bitch told told Sister to cook it, she was shocked but felt better when she found out the locals called it a son of a bitch fish. Anyway……Sister told the Priest the Bishop was coming for a surprise visit and she’ll cook that son of a bitch.

    You probably guessed when the Priest was saying the blessing before the meal, he thanked God for that son of a bitch fish they were having for dinner, the deacon wanting to impress the Bishop quickly added, “and I cleaned that son of a bitch your reverence”. Not wanting to miss out on brown nosing the Bishop, Sister Mary Francis added, “and I cooked this son of a bitch”.

    The Bishop sat there for a second with his mouth open. He regained his composure and said, “I’ll conclude tonights blessing with my own personal thanks to God because you motherfuckers are my kinda people.

  159. Hello everyone-
    sopory forgot my salutation in the last
    hope all is well I heard that Obama is so having a problem wth his diet….and due to his love of rabbit food and enuee of meat he is having fits of uncontrolable flatulence at many public gatherings!

    Or it could just be jhis jaw flapping….

    How is the economy today

  160. madamab – I preferred it too. They were also the only place hiring. Got to run – fight the good fight, team!

  161. did i get kicked out/ nope – oops i kicked myown self out but i’m back now….

    I wrote some of my own redneck jokes – wanna hear ’em/? i don’t care…. here ya go……

    You might be a Redneck if you list paid off court fines as credit reference.

    You might be a Redneck of you attend church service in a double wide house trailer.

    You might be a Redneck if your BBQ has wheels and a trailer hitch.

  162. Now Obama is going to go line by line – stealing McCain/Palin’s lines – he has no shame.

  163. If Possum,Deer, Armadillo, and Nutria are you 4 food groups then you might be a redneck

  164. My friends are hoping Biden kills Sarah on Thursday? I hope she can come at him punch for punch….

  165. and all we’re getting in the middle is “TRICKLED ON”

  166. wtf is a nutria?

  167. mambopurr, it’ a large rodent. Basically a giant rat.

  168. economic recovery act in 3 parts:
    1) amnesty on “corporate repatriation tax” for private profits earned overseas IF those profits are used to buy up the “toxic instruments” from the troubled investment banks, etc AT MARKET VALUE. The investment banks, etc, have to buy insurance that guanantees the market value as a minimum payout. (to protect the new investor from LOSS – doesn’t guarantee a profit, but they got a tax break to get their money back into the country.) this is the capital infusion into the financial markets to bring liquidity, promote new loans, etc, and it takes the bad assets off their books.
    2) raise FDIC insurance amount to $250,000 (on track with this) This is to protect local banks and citizens.
    3) this is the important one.
    three year moratorium on foreclosures. during the three years, identify as many as possible of homeowners at risk for foreclosure. develop a program that will honestly analyze the homeowner’s finances, (including their effort to make full or partial payments on the home during the moratorium), and work to determine how much home they CAN afford.

    this is where the fun stuff comes in.
    building industry, in the housing bubble, has NOT been building AFFORDABLE homes. now the building industry in building bird houses and decks. Using Habitat for Humanity (a true national non-profit) as a coordinator, subsidize a program to start a group of AFFORDABLE houses for the homeowners that should step down in home value, based on their finances, but shouldn’t be left homeless. Apply any equity they may have built up from current home to the new purchase. The home they must leave is now available for someone from the next level up to make a move down to financial sanity. The first tier of new affordable homes (similar to what Habitat currently builds) will jump start jobs in the building industry, a major component of the economy.

    I’m sure we could flesh this out (in about 20 pages – save the trees for the houses) and make much more sense than our elected officials are now doing. In two years, it could be put in front of a relatively NEW congress to replace (amend) this crap they’re giving us this week. Hammer on this thing… all ideas welcome.

  169. sorry about the length of the post!!

  170. Madamab

    Unfortunately, someone has conveyed soveriegn immunity.

  171. at least it wasn’t 451 pages.

    oh! one more thing— NO PORK!

  172. manbopurr- a Nutria is a large swamp rate a delicasy served by real cajuns in LA’s back country-

  173. madamab, I read the stuff you wrote, but couldn’t force myself to read quotes from the three Mouseketeers.

    I thought Obama was really rude and Lehrer quite the enabler (to use pop-psych speak). Each time McCain made a salient point, el douche bag put his hand up
    and kind of made an “uh” grunt. That’s not how you debate. You wait for the person to make their point, you don’t play “I’m gonna jump up and down over here until you call on me.” and Lehrer, weak kneed puke that he is let Obama get away with that shit and interupted McCain to let el douche bag speak.

    Conversely, I noticed that Lehrer did not interupt el douche bag when McCain wished to interject a comment (which he indicated in a polite manner).

    I really hate Obama with a passion. I don’t even bother tempering it anymore.

  174. Lehrer did fine. At the very beginning, he made it clear that it was his goal that McCain and Obama talk directly to each other. McCain did not let Obama interrupt him anyway. McCain just ignored him.

  175. I here the Senate Cloak room was all abuzz with the new and inventive ways to bring home the Bacon so they can keep their cushy jobs….Sadie the official hat check girl there has been sequestered until after the vote. Seems last time that happened to the poor girl was during the economic stimulus debate!

  176. mambopurr-

    which is a lot faster that takin it to weight watchers…

  177. …might be of interest..

    Top Obama Labor Supporter Warns Race Remains Volatile, Says Voters Lack Clear Sense Of Obama


    A clear sense of Obama??? He’s an apparition; he’ll be anything you want him to be.

  178. Obama wants another Debate added so he can debate himself on all pertinent issues before the voters….he expects this debate to happen because of the huge outcry for McCain to drop out of the race.

  179. A transcript of Senator Clinton’s remarks follows.

    Senator Clinton: Thank you Mr. President. Thank you very much, and I appreciate the extraordinary work that has been done with respect to the rescue package, led in a bipartisan fashion which has certainly produced significant changes in the original request that came to the Congress from the Treasury Department. And tonight we will vote on legislation none of us wish we were considering and none of us can afford to see fail. The costs of inaction are far too great. We are already seeing the consequences of a freezing credit market that will only worsen.

    I hear across my state of New York, small businesses are struggling to find affordable loans to keep their doors open and their inventory stocked. Even larger businesses are being pushed to the breaking point throughout the country, the impact of this credit crisis is beginning to be felt, with students who are seeing the sources of student loans drying up, interest rates on car payments rising, families who had saved up and acted responsibly seeing higher mortgage rates, shrinking their dream of homeownership.

    Our economy runs on credit, and underlying that credit is trust. Both the credit and the trust is running out. Essentially what we are doing here in an intangible way is restoring trust and confidence in a very tangible way: helping to restore credit. Banks will refuse to lend to businesses and even to one another. Investors continue to withdraw into the safest if investments, treasury bills, even cash. Tens of thousands of jobs in New York have been lost and a study this morning projected that New York alone would lose at least 120,000 jobs.

    Now I think we are here in some respects because we failed to tackle a home mortgage crisis, and now we are facing a market crisis. If we fail to tackle the market crisis, we risk an even deeper economic crisis. I don’t think any of us want to see irresponsibility on Wall Street compounded by ineffectiveness in Washington. That’s why we must act, even as we do so with regret and reservations, because we have little choice.

    The proposal we are considering is far from perfect, but it is a far cry from the original plan sent over by the Treasury Department that installed virtually unlimited powers in the hands of the Treasury Secretary. As I said when we first examined that original three-page proposal, we needed a plan that included checks and balances, not a blank check.

    And thanks to the leadership here in the Senate and in the House, we have negotiated through the Congress, on a bipartisan basis, a better alternative that installs taxpayer protections, asserts oversight, and maintains greater accountability. As is the case very often in effective compromises, no one is happy. But we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or in this case, the enemy of what’s necessary. But as we vote for this proposal tonight, we must do so considering what steps we will take next.

    On the floor at this moment are three of the leaders who shaped this, under the very able leadership of Chairman Dodd, and the chief Republican negotiator, Senator Gregg, and of course the Chairman of the Finance Committee, Chairman Baucus.

    But I think we all recognize that this is not the end but the beginning of what we must do. And I believe there are three big goals that we will have to address even after we pass the Rescue Package tonight here in the Senate and send it over to the House.

    First, we must address the home mortgage crisis. For two years, I and others have called for action as wave after wave of defaults and foreclosures crashed against communities and the broader economy. We are not yet through the woods. Millions of mortgages are underwater or under specter of adjustable rates set to rise.

    I am proposing what we’re calling The Homeowners Mortgage Enterprise, an acronym obviously spelling HOME, to rewrite mortgages and reset terms so that creditworthy, responsible families can keep their homes and keep making affordable payments. Through such a HOME program, we’d also be able to consider freezing adjustable mortgage rates and even placing short term moratoriums on foreclosures.

    When our country enacted a similar program in the Great Depression, we saved one million homes without costing the taxpayers a dime. In fact, the program ended up with a surplus. And only by rewriting the terms of the debt held by families whose mortgages can be salvaged will we recoup a great deal of the value of the debt we are purchasing from Wall Street firms.

    I also believe we need to consider a real tax credit for homebuyers to jump start the housing market. This has been an effective tool in the past and it can be an effective tool again. We have too much supply and too little demand, and getting the liquidity that will be injected into the credit markets to work its way through the entire economy will take time. I think we need not only a supply of liquidity but an increase in demand, particularly in the housing market.

    Second, we must be vigilant on behalf of taxpayers, putting in place safeguards so the Treasury is maximizing the value of the assets purchased with taxpayer dollars. We need to have the flexibility to ensure we’re not just subsidizing investors and executives, but we should tie this debt relief to strong recapitalization requirements and greater accountability.

    I also want to be sure that companies do not take undue advantage of this program and sell securities to the Treasury with one stroke of the pen and claim a deduction for the losses on those assets with the other—in essence, double dipping, dumping their bad assets on taxpayers, and getting a tax break as well.

    I’m proposing we build on a very creative provision in the bill before us, and establish an e-TRUST Program. That would stand for Transparent Rules Used to Safeguard Taxpayers. In the bill, there’s a provision that transactions be put on the Internet. I want to ensure that the assets brought—bought and sold by the Treasury Department are reported online in real time, so any American can log on and see how their tax dollars are being spent. All assets bought and sold must be available on a publicly accessible website that discloses the buyers, sellers and values of these assets. The American people are buying these securities, and so the American people must have easy access to their portfolio.

    It’s also important for the American people to understand that lying behind these complex transactions, with all kinds of long names that you read in the newspaper—collateralized debt obligations, and credit default swaps and all the other, you know, words that are used to in some way explain the complex financial transactions that brought to us this place—standing behind are real assets. There are real homes owned by real people on real land in real communities across America. So we want to know how those securities that stand in for these real assets are being traded, bought, and sold, and we want to be sure that we realize for the taxpayer the benefit of these transactions.

    And third, I think there is general agreement we must pursue broader reforms. That is one of the lessons of this turmoil. I know that Chairman Dodd and others will be holding hearings to try to untangle how we got to where we are. We know we have to rein in executive compensation by giving shareholders a greater role and eliminating loopholes that allow boards to conceal the value of salary packages. We’ve got to end the quarter-by-quarter mentality in which long term prosperity is subverted by short term stock valuations. And obviously, we have to end the culture of recklessness in our financial markets endorsed by an ideology of indifference in Washington.

    As the American people invest in these companies, I think we should ask the companies to invest in the American people. I think we should consider requiring financial institutions participating in this Treasury plan to create an American Priorities Fund to be part of their portfolios, to invest in clean energy, infrastructure, mass transit, manufacturing, education, and other public goods and goals that would be well served by greater private investment.

    Along with the rescue package will be a number of tax credits that will be passed by the Senate tonight. Again, Chairman Baucus has done yeoman’s work getting these tax credits put together. The Senate supported them before in it as a fix for the Alternative Minimum Tax, energy production tax credits. In fact, we will be stimulating the economy for Main Street while we pass this rescue package for our credit markets. I think that’s the right combination.

    But we need to do more. Instead of toxic securities that nobody can understand, are so complex and lack all transparency and accountability, banks should be investing in clean energy facilities in Buffalo, or new auto manufacturing plants in Detroit to build more fuel-efficient cars. We should be repairing our bridges, our roads, our tunnels. We should investing in high-speed rail and making sure that Amtrak is just not a second-class railroad, but competes with the best anywhere in the world.

    I think, Mr. President, that the agenda before the Congress is a very important one for our country. We cannot continue to shuttle from crisis to crisis. This is a sink-or-swim moment for our country and we cannot merely catch our breath. We must swim for the shores. And we must do so together, not only as a united Congress, but as a united country. There’s so much work to be done in America, so many investments that will make us richer and stronger and safer and smarter, that will enable us to look into the eyes of our children and grandchildren and tell them that we’re leaving our country and in as good, in fact, better shape than when we found it. At this moment we can’t say that. But I am absolutely sure, based on the bipartisan cooperation that we saw on this bill in responding to a real crisis, that we will see more of that in the months ahead. Our new President will certainly demand it of us, but we should be demanding it of ourselves, and demonstrate to the American people that the United States Congress will lead the way into a much more confident and optimistic future for America.

    Thank you Mr. President. I yield the floor.


  180. My clear sense of Obama is what drives me to buying Excedrin Migraine and Rolaids by the convenient 50gallon drum size container.

  181. Kitchen way up there at 5:25 mentioned the ethics committee.

    A while ago the house passed a bill to create an “outside” person/or board (I’m foggy on this) that would independently review ethics violations, or
    indiscretions. It felt really wierd. The dems heralded it (with some vocal objection in their own camp) and the repubs seemed to fight it tooth and nail.

    Somehow this just seems so incredibly Obama-esque. A group of people– not house members– so must be appointed (?) who will have access to all of the information on house members who are accused of or implicated in impropriety.

    Just feels like Nancy setting the stage for the New Age of America known as Otyranny.

  182. If Hillary was our candidate, she would be 35 points ahead. But she’s not. I’m not buying any of the Dem elite thought Barry was anything but their paymaster’s choice. They all know he’s a light weigh flip flopping Chicago machine bag man , that’s why he has been picked . He was picked because of the very reasons we fear him….which are out lined here every day in excellent posts .

  183. Sometimes I think we need to be reminded….

    the key to a happy life:

    Work like you don’t need the Money
    Love Like you have Never been Hurt
    and…Dance Like Nobody is watching!


  184. WHY is this woman not our nominee and on her way to a great victory in November??????

    She gets it. And she knows how to fix it.

  185. Admittedly, I surfed a lot during the debate. It was rather boring and, well, Obama was in it.
    But in the parts I watched Lehrer interupted McCain to allow Obama in. There is a way to facilitate dialogue and debate and a way to let one party dominate the discussion. I caught Lehrer at that a couple of times.
    I guess it’s just a matter of taste. But you can’t head off someone trying to make an initial point and pretend you are facillitating a deeper discusision of the matter.
    The first person has to be allowed to make a full statement, to flush out their stance, otherwise you’re just debating adjectives.

  186. WMCB, on October 1st, 2008 at 6:40 pm Said:

    WHY is this woman not our nominee and on her way to a great victory in November??????

    She gets it. And she knows how to fix it.

    Because she gets it. And she knows how to fix it.
    That’s your answer…..but you knew that

  187. “I am proposing what we’re calling The Homeowners Mortgage Enterprise, an acronym obviously spelling HOME”

    She’s cute.

  188. TY fuzzy – kitchen – et al, I’m still got lots to learn ’bout bein’ southern. Sounds tasty, BBQ’d?

  189. fuzzybeargville – We will always need money.
    Money is the root of all evil.

  190. I think this is like the huge public works program Bill wanted to do when he became pres that was nixed by wall street:

    I think we should consider requiring financial institutions participating in this Treasury plan to create an American Priorities Fund to be part of their portfolios, to invest in clean energy, infrastructure, mass transit, manufacturing, education, and other public goods and goals that would be well served by greater private investment.

  191. paper doll, BINGO. This is why the toads in the party didn’t want her. She would upset their cozy little backroom dealing applecart, and make them do their fucking jobs as public servants.

  192. Well, to hell with my checkbook. Without my broadband connection, how will I eat? (y’know, recipes, coupons, etc.)

  193. His mantra:

    “I feel strongly both ways”

  194. Kerry is speaking – PUKE!

  195. WMCB, exactly. When the last barrowed trillion is stolen, they might let her fix it….but not until then . There are trillions more to steal yet

  196. Carol darling how are you I am trying to eat dinner-please do not mention that mans name!

    Love always-fuzzy

    Down ticket I know but the operative word is “like” you doont need the money-not because you dont need the money!

  197. I though lindsay graham was going to make me puke…

  198. The reason Obama’s poll numbers have gone up is because of the economic crisis and Hillary and Bill making their rounds on different shows. When people see them they think that Obama will be working with them which isn’t true. Once he is elected he won’t be listening to them. Obama hates them.

  199. paperdoll-Obamabots deserve Obama as their president we deserve so much better-we deserve Hillary-he above speech will be mocked because it upstaged the big “o” onec again!

  200. He just ignored him. What are they complaining about?

  201. kerry is a liar. he just said that this bill will help homeowners renegotiate their loans. where in the bill does it say that?

  202. I love this part, and her sane, common-sense way of putting it:

    All assets bought and sold must be available on a publicly accessible website that discloses the buyers, sellers and values of these assets. The American people are buying these securities, and so the American people must have easy access to their portfolio.

  203. Stop worrying! All is fine! here are some of Ifill’s questions for the debate

  204. why does a 10 minute speech from John kerry seem like it lasts all night?

  205. WMCB, on October 1st, 2008 at 6:56 pm

    They are never going to let her do that. That is too much transparency.

  206. when is Jeff Sessions gonna speak/

  207. Hillary is supporting Barry and mostly the down tickets for the sake of the party

    If Barry gets in , Hill will run against him in the 2012 primaries… again, in order to save the party.

    Or Barry’s Hill vendetta may get so bad, she may be forced to become an independent … either way
    if Barry gets in , the primary of 2008 will be revisited

    That is my prediction

  208. “Early voting is taking place in Ohio. Through the end of the week, people can register and vote on the same day. The Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner argues that they are merely “casting their ballot” rather than “voting” so the fact that Ohio statute requires 30 days between registering and voting would not interfere.”

    Red State has a video up of people being picked up on the streets and in homeless shelters and driven in to vote. We should all get to vote, but why is Ohio doing this for one week? The voters who are registering and voting this week will be doing it on paper and it will be treated like an absentee ballot. If Obama wins by a slim margin in Ohio, this one-week procedure will surely be contested.

  209. Obama will be the last Democratic President for at least 30 years his occupation of the oval will be like a never ending Disaster/Horror Movie….just when everyone thinks it could not get any worse it will! Americans will for the next Generation have bumperstickers that say…

    “Vote Republican-Remember President Obama!”

    It is so sad to see our way of life die!

  210. EOF – That is hilarious!

    Downticket – Thanks for sharing that with us. I want my Hilllllaaaaaarrrrryyyyyy back! She is The One, for me.


  211. angelasmith — I saw Leher doing it too at the debate — while he was certainly a much better moderator then he was during the Bush/Gore & Bush/Kerry debates, I still didn’t like the way he allowed Obama to interrupt McCain — toward the end of the debate McCain was talking, Obama started talking over McCain, so McCain raised his voice a bit to finish his point and only THEN did Leher say “one at a time” to which Obama replied “ok fair enough” like the dumbass he is. God I hate Obama.

  212. fuzzybear – That’s what I think. Obama cannot be President. He will be the death of the Democratic brand forever.

    On the bright side, maybe Hillary will form her own Party for 2012….

  213. WMCB:

    Reading Hillary’s statement brought tears to my eyes.

    The true story of why such an incredible stateswoman was kicked to the curb to pave the way for Obama (unqualified at best, dangerous at worst) will be told one day, and it will be as shocking, dismaying, and egregious as this election.

    I want my candidate back. I want my country back. I want honesty, and honor, and integrity back.

    I will be voting for McCain/Palin. I hope when McCain wins, and Obama loses, both parties (which have been radicalized by extreme elements) will be pulled more toward the moderate center, and rid of corruption.

    Unfortunately, that’s the best hope I have for this election.

  214. xax: who knows what the bill says now ? it’s the other white meat now … i understand there’s a mental health provision in there now, and it’s meant to get some real help to botox nancy

  215. madamab — I agree — that is why I am voting McCain — the only way to get the real Dem party back — the party of FDR — is for Obama to lose. Once he loses, Hillary becomes the most powerful person in the Dem party (with her 18 million votes in the primary) and there will be nothing Pelosi, Reid, Dean, Brazile, Kerry, et al can do to stop her from reshaping it into the party it should be.


    Watch this video. Watch as a poll observer gets told she CANNOT observe. It seems the Sec of State Brunner and the judge who ruled to allow the same day voting also forbade observers :

    Here ya go, folks. The Chicago Machine gone national.

  217. OH Down ticket dems better start worring because in NC they had to have another primary. Voters were only interested in voting for Obama. Obama only cares about Obama.

  218. Jmac- I refer to it as ‘Early election fraud’. who can blame Obama, so much fraud, so little time.

  219. Strange f-ed up shit in Ohio? Wasn’t it the Ohio courts that allowed the repubs to actually have people
    who could “contest” voters in the last pres election?

    Now the pendulum has swung all the way to the other side and the dems are getting observers knocked out of the polling places?

    I guess it’s back to the courts.

    Brunner just seems to want to be the dem version of
    that Florida miscreant Kathleen (Katherine?) Harris.

  220. I think all down-ticket Dems should be worried. In all states.

  221. Let’s just go back to being ruled by kings. Why bother spending time and money on an election we all assume is rigged. Shut down the polls, the blogs, free speech. So much easier.

  222. DTs are scared. That’s why they’re all blowing up Hillary’s blackberry.

  223. Don’t know if this C-Span recording has been posted already, but click here to watch the resurgent McCain-Palin action team on the stump in Columbus, OH. She does a slam up job introducing McCain, and then he eviscerates Obambam.

    So looking forward to the VP debate tomorrow!

  224. This is so painful to watch. I always thought that Democrats valued democracy. Thank God for Heidi and the Democrats for principle before party. They sent out the email asking us to be poll watchers, and I did nothing. Tomorrow I will look into it. Of course, I am still a Democrat and I’m sure the zombies have already signed up for the spots. I swear I will stand outside with a PUMA sign and ask people who had problems to let me help.

  225. Regency – Hillary is a superheroine. She is supposed to elect Obama and save all of the Downticket Dems at once, all the while, fixing the economic crisis.

    Told ya she had a titanium pantsuit!

  226. If Obama wins we will pay big time.

  227. I don’t know Pat, isn’t that heading down the
    ” to sleep” path. You know what happens then…
    “To sleep,
    perchance to dream,
    ah, there’s the rub.
    Whether tis nobler…” and all.

    Ignorance is bliss. If you wanted easy, you’d be an Obama-ite.

    Sadly, those of us who are awake are feeling all the bumps along this ride.

    We’ll get to a good place (hopefully) , until then it’s gonna suck a bit.

  228. Regency, they ought to be worried. During the primaries, it was a fact that those voting for Obama bothered to vote downticket in much fewer numbers than Hill’s voters. His hopium-addled followers do not care about the party, or about democrats, or local government, or about good government in general. They just want The One, because he’s gonna save us all.

  229. “DownTicket”
    Maybe they only voted for Obama because that’s how he cheated to “win” NC. I wonder if those were part of his
    college tour; to gather early votes??

  230. madamab- I think that she is babysitting Obama’s daughters and tutoring Biden’s daughter in algebra as well.

  231. angelasmith: I thought I was dreaming. No? OMG, pass the Valium please!

  232. Repost. I picked the wrong thread.

    Are ya’ll watching CSPAN. Feinstein is speaking and she said her office received 91,000 calls, and 85,000 of them were opposed to the bail out. She is being articulate, saying there is a lot of confusion out there and the bill that was presented to the House giving Paulson $700 billion without oversight is not the bill being voted on in the Senate.

    Dodd is pontificating. When is someone going to hold him accountable for his huge F&F handouts and why he is the Captain of this vote? Ridiculous. Step off Dodd.

  233. Most of those college whiz kids have no clue as to how the government works. They still think this is just another version of American Idol. Downticket candidates? Are these the back up singers? This is as much as they know or care to consider.

  234. Obama don’t need any stinking down-ticket Dems to create Hope and change. Do you think that people back in Jesus’ time would have hung around and voted in the Apostles?

  235. Madamab: Titanium ovaries, my friend.
    WMCB: That was the case right here in TX. We told them loudly and repeatedly.

  236. fif: Dodd is the Chairman of the House Banking Committee. And I bet you thought it was Obama. Obama did too.

  237. Lou Dobbs is now my latest crush. He just sits there and shakes his head. I’m with you Lou. Impossible to conceive isn’t it that these jerks are our official elected reps.

  238. I heard Palin on the radio today with Hannity. She’s a fiesty one. She sounded very confident and ready for the debate. She was very articulate about the economy, and it sounds like she is going to bring it like she did at the Convention. Just like before the Convention: the media has tried to define her, and she will have an opportunity to speak uncensored tomorrow. We’ll see how she does.

  239. Yea, I know he is Pat, and that’s the rub. He is also at the top of the list for campaign contributions from F&F. That’s the problem. Why is Dodd still engineering this deal when he clearly has such a huge conflict of interest. Just like Obama, he’s out there railing against greed and lack of regulation when HE was one of the main obstacles to reform?!

  240. Whenever I see Dodd or Frank pontificating about the wise path to getting out of this mess, I just squint really hard trying to see why they don’t just start going into nervous, hysterical giggles. Seems number one
    rule to be a politician like them is to be incapable of shame.

  241. fif: Fingers crossed. I think she should just open her remarks by saying, “I can do as much or better than the fools you are watching parade before the cameras today defending their actions. If this is an example of “experience”, I am way ahead of the game. I have nowhere to go but up.”

  242. Can you actually have them voting on Bills that haven’t gone through the committee process? I thought that was party of the bill process, or maybe I relied to heavily on school house rock as a kid

  243. fif- I think people who say that she does not have the DC speak for all these issues and maybe has not studied all these issues, are right. That does not mean that she can not learn. I think that she has good instincts and I do not think that she would be as conservative as everyone is saying. I think that she is a libertarian at heart. ( and unlike Obama she actually has a heart.)

  244. Is Riverdaughter around? What the heck is going on with PA? Bogus polls or are the bitter gun toters drinking Kool Aid. I can’t imagine how Obama can win a state like PA & OH. I heard Bill campaigning for BO in Florida today. I wish Bill & Hill would take a vacation right now–they’ve done enough. They are much too convincing and charismatic.

  245. Pat Johnson — LOL — you should email the McCain campaign with that opening — I’d pay to see her say that!

  246. Watching these politicians I am convinced that it is indeed possible to speak out of both sides of your mouth at once.

    We all need lessons.

  247. fif — I think we should just count Ohio in BO’s column — the fix is in there.
    As to PA & the rest of the states — nothing will make me believe those numbers aren’t manipulated to favor BO.

  248. Honora: I definitely agree with her libertarian tendencies, and the very thing I LIKE about her is that she does not have the “DC speak.” We’ve had quite enough of that, thank you. Obama’s “eloquence” is hollow. I could care less if someone speaks poetically. I want wonky, pragmatic workhorses. Gee, who does that sound like?

  249. fif, I read somewhere they that PA poll HEAVILY sampled the Obama urban areas, and minimally sampled the McCain strongholds.

  250. I maybe a relic of the past but I am relying on the belief that the American people will do the right thing in November when it comes to voting. I am attached to the idea of a Truman/Dewey do over.

  251. fif- you may be right. I have heard people here say that if Hillary says that the bailout bill, sorry the ‘Great Opportunity to make the American Taxpayer gobs of money bill’ is good enough for Hillary then it is ok with them. I think people in the battleground states are doing the same thing. O will never give Hilliary and Bill credit, if he …. (I can’t even type it)

  252. Honora, on October 1st, 2008 at 7:22 pm Said:

    Jmac- I refer to it as ‘Early election fraud’. who can blame Obama, so much fraud, so little time. 🙂

    It was reported that in two counties in NC some ballots were counted twice. That is mainly how he did it.

  253. angie: well WHY is the “fix in” in Ohio? What the hell is anyone doing to ensure a fair election in that state? I’ve heard the Republicans talking about it, but is any oversight in place?

  254. I believe that Obama has as much grasp of the economic problems as I do. Can you hear the silence emanating from this computer?

  255. fif – in Columbus, McCain took Nobama to the woodshed on the debate issues, mocking his standing by until needed, his phoning it in, his suspending his earmark campaigns, his refusing to admit the surge worked, and other surly remarks, et cetera. Great body language and feisty delivery. And Sarah Palin was just magnificent. That woman can pack a political speech with as much humor and harrumph as I’ve seen. And that includes the best of Barky’s bits.

  256. dakinkat — the rules seem to be thrown out the window. Under the Const. only the House can originate tax bills (and the tax breaks thrown into this bill by the Senate I would say qualifies). Further, although not specifically in the Const., all appropriation bills originate in the House — when the Senate tries to originate an appropriation bill, the House will not even consider it.

  257. I liked these questions for the debate:

    “YES HRC // October 1, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    Governor Palin, in alphabetical order, name every head of state in every country in the world. And please spell the names.

    Senator Biden, millions watched when Obama slipped your wife the tongue when he greeted her. Does that mean you will have the same privileges with Michelle, or is that just a presidential perk?”


  258. Angie: The Bill currently includes an appropriations issue already voted on by the House, they’ve attached everything else to it in order to circumvent that tradition.

  259. I think Palin will do well during the debate. I hope so.

  260. Lou is going to talk about Gwen Ifill next. He had cute can-you-believe-this-stuff smile when he talked about it. Today, Greta, Rush, Hannity, and Lou dealt with it. I think it was on the networks too. Palin said it would just make her work harder to get her point across. McCain was very neutral about it. I guess they can’t demand she be replaced the day before or they will be accused of being…racist of course. What has the word been today while I was out?

    Here comes Pat’s new boyfriend, Lou.

  261. Governor Palin: Please list for us all the trade bills passed in the congress in the last 10 years and include the names of those who voted YAY or NAY.

    Sen. Obama: Jif or Skippy? Take your time.

  262. At this point, Sarah could offer to play her flute everytime they ask a question she is unsure of answering. She is okay with me.

    He could recite his answers in sanscript and it would make not a whit of difference. He stinks!

  263. Errol Louis (NY Daily News) calls the Senate bill a “Christmas tree bill” because it has so much pork. Candidates are going along with it because of the election.

    Lou: “Is there any way we can put off the election, because these candidates are bringing into serious question their leadership capacity.”

    LOL–go Lou!

  264. Love Lou!!!

  265. Sen. Obama: Jif or Skippy? Take your time.

    LOL!! Choosy Obama-lovers choose Jiff.

  266. fif — the Ohio Secretary of State (Jennifer Brunner a Dem & Obot) is allowing same day voting registration & voting in Ohio for this entire week — the id qualifications are laughably relaxed — no picture id required, a phone or utility bill will do. This was done by her on her own — without it going through the state congress. Obama allegedly is busing all kinds of people to get registered & vote as we speak.
    The absolutely best part of this whole thing is that Brunner is allowing this despite the fact that Ohio law requires someone to register to vote 30 days before an election — she says that the people registering to vote are not actually voting — they are merely casting absentee ballots which will not be “votes” until they are counted in November. Anyone who buys this argument doesn’t deserve to live.
    So, yeah, the fix is in — I predict Obama carries Ohio by 120%.

  267. Pale Lion: I wish McCain would bring some of that fire to his interviews. He seems to be on valium when he talks about the economy. Not very inspiring.

  268. I knew I should have held off buying Halloween candy until the day before. I am so agitated that I am going through a bag of Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups! Yikes!

  269. But Regency — the House voted that appropriations bill down — I’ve never heard of the Senate taking up an appropriations bill that the House already said “no” to.

  270. McCain & Palin spoke on a college campus in Ohio. didn’t sound like THOSE young people would be taking the obamabus.

  271. I’ve been out of touch with the intertoobz today. What did I miss?

  272. no picture id required, a phone or utility bill will do.

    WTF?! How will they know Mr. X’s phone bill is his if there is no picture id? Can’t the RNC challenge this decision?

  273. Hey everyone I just heard the Bill is now up to 850 billion dollars, is that true?

  274. Gwen Ifill:

    “Mayor Palin – what are the scan numbers on your luggage the last time you traveled coach?

    As a follow-up, what was the weight and measurement of your lugguage.

    Following up on that, is it true, you tried to get more than 3 ounces of breast milk through the security area with it not actually contained inside a bottle?

    Last question, what is Senator Biden’s favorite color?

    As a follow-up, the way you have answered these questions, do you really think you are qualified to become President when Senator McCain drops dead of really icky cancer during his administration?

    I think we have heard enough.”

  275. Wont the Republicans contest the Ohio shenanigans? Surely isn’t is as easy as all that for God’s sake!?!

  276. CAROL HAKA 👿

  277. Angie: That’s why it’s been modified. They’ve attached the bailout to a different measure (not the bailout) that’s been voted up by the House already. The entire bill (pork included) as it is will have to go back to House, laden with things that they daren’t vote down to be voted on again.

    That’s totally circular but that’s the reasoning.

  278. Ifill’s question:
    Mrs. Palin,
    why do you want to get in the way of the historic presidency of Barack Obama? What is wrong with you?

  279. They will ask Sarah simple yet relevant and important questions like:

    Governor Palin, how old were you the first time you had sex?

    How many sexual partners have you had?

    Do you spit or swallow?

    Do the curtains match the rug?

  280. Governor palin, I’m thinking of a number between one and one million. What is it?

  281. fif, I read somewhere they that PA poll HEAVILY sampled the Obama urban areas, and minimally sampled the McCain strongholds.

    Makes perfect sense. Hillary carried the entire state, except the urban pockets. Those are McCain areas as well. I will be so glad when all of this mind f*cking is over. Seriously–what does any of this have to do with democracy? Under all of the socialized, civilized veneer, most people are just primal power mongers clawing for survival, easily manipulated by prejudice and fear. The ones I hold accountable are the Manipulators, and we know who they are.

    Time to reach for the nightly glass of pinot noir to get me through this dark chapter in American history.

  282. fif — the GOP did challenge it, but the Ohio Supreme Court backed Brunner. I’m sure that if it makes a difference to the outcome of the election the GOP will have the USSC court review it — and of course they will take it up (although they shouldn’t — but that didn’t stop them in 2000). I hope to God it doesn’t come to that & McCain wins without Ohio.

  283. myiq — how did you get a hold of the VP debate questions?

  284. Governor Palin, please name all the residents of your state – in chronological order.

  285. myiq:


    “33–the number of wolves I had shot from a plane last month.”

  286. fif, on October 1st, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    The only person who could have done that died. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Barbara Boxer and Hillary were the ones working on the election Reform Bill, “Count Every Vote Act”. They first introudced it in 2005 and re-introduced it last year.

  287. fif: i lift my rosa to you in salutations and sympathy

  288. Ifill:
    “Look Sarah, or whatever the hell your name is, I’m not going to add any credibility to this farce you seem intent on continuing. I’m not going to ask you a single question and I want you to stand there and listen to
    Senator Biden, the esteemed Senator from Delaware and I want you to learn something about the world.
    And then I want you to go home and reflect upon why you felt you needed to try and lie and cheat and steal and destroy the fabric of this country.”

  289. Captain Spaulding gave them to me.

    He said he found them, and I didn’t want to be nosy.

  290. Gov. Palin — please recite the names of all the States of the United States, along with their capitals, in alphabetical order.

  291. The Republicans are so within their right to go to the Supreme Court if need be. In fact, I’d love it if McCain fights it all the way. I’d love to see someone call him a sore loser and for him to say that the last guy who gave up because he got called a few names went to Hollywood while the other guy went to the White House–and he ain’t too interested in inconvenient truths.

  292. gary’s still got chills going up my spine with those little obots singing about dear leader … then I got to NQ and there’s examples of Lenin’s little potatoes, More hitler youth songs with an equally horrifying teacher in the lead, and a bunch of N korean goods under a big sign of Kim J …. oh great ethos, save us from the koolaide drinkers

  293. Senator Biden, what state do you represent in the Senate?

  294. angienc – all 58 of them????//

  295. No photo ID required to vote? WTF? That’s just crazy.

  296. Seantor Biden, give me a prime number between one and nine.

    Governor Palin, take that number and give me the square root times 6.5, divided by twelve, add 8 onto that, divide by the square root of 5 and paint my house.

  297. Governor Palin, what were the batting averages of the starting line-up for the 1937 New York Yankees?

    And to you Senator Biden, what state do the Yankees play their home games in?

  298. angelasmith — your Biden question is way harder then anything Iffl will be asking him tomorrow.

  299. Gov. Palin- Tell me what is in the 10,000 page Senator Biden voted for last night and what the ramifications of the bill will be for the world in the year 2037? Senator Biden- Did you get to eat dinner before casting your vote?

  300. Ohio poll Survey USA squeaker McCain up by 1, 2 percent undecided. Ballot came today so I already voted I’m done with this election. And while I will always participate in the electoral process, I will never ever invest my passion or money in any Repug or Dem Party run anything, there is no integrity in their process and I never cared what a corporate media would recommend.

  301. Senator Biden, what is your wife’s first name?

    And to you Governor Palin, what name did her parents have picked out if she had been a boy?

  302. Gov. Palin — why are you so dumb?
    Sen. Biden — can you believe how dumb she is?

  303. I have CSPAN on mute, and Obama is schmoozing everyone on the floor. Gross. Just gave Feinstein a kiss. What is the matter with these people? Where is our Mr. Smith in Washington?

  304. Senator Biden, name me a senator from Delaware.

    Governor Palin, recite the periodic table of elements, skipping every other one.

  305. angelasmith — lol!

  306. Governor Palin, aren’t you ashamed to be here tonight?

    (She answers “No”)

    Senator Biden, do you agree that she is shameless?

  307. good one angienc.


    HI HILLARY! (((((((WAVES)))))))

  309. Senator Biden, how many Spartans were killed at the battle of Thermopylae?

    ( He answers “300”)

    Governor Palin, can you name them?

  310. Cheers dakinikat 🙂

  311. Mrs. Palin, what is pie to the 7000th place? Mr. Biden, what kind of pie is your favorite?

  312. My state and my country are in deep trouble:

    Voter Fraud Alert- Poll Observer Turned Away in Ohio

  313. When did Obama get his own cable channel?

    73 on the Dish network!

    Goodness, what’s next?

  314. myiq– good one. I think Gwen’ll probably also want to know the exact geographic location of each fallen Spartan. Also the nature of the wound which killed them.

  315. Mr. Biden, how hopeful are you that things will change when Obama is President?

    Ms.Palin, why do you hate polar bears?

  316. Governor Palin, you’re from that woodsy kind of state up there, “how much wood would a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood?”

    Senator Biden, can I get you a glass of water?

  317. Downticket, on October 1st, 2008 at 8:07 pm

    I’m not dissing CW Stephanie Tubbs Jones, as she worked harder than most for her constituents, and was well received in her district. She worked for her country.

    Unfortunately, her idea of “fair and uniform voter registration and identification” meant that you were not required to have a photo ID, just a utility bill or such. I believe every voter should have their vote counted, but the registration requirements are not enough to prevent fraudulent registrations. jmho

  318. angelasmith — I swear I was thinking about that wood chuck one for Palin too! Great minds!

  319. poplicola, I saw that and I agree with you. We are in deep trouble. But we have to keep the faith.

  320. Hillary just grabbed Obama’s arm as he was walking by, and she is talking to him now. His arms are crossed. So how does it feel talking to someone you stole votes from?

    She just voted yes.

  321. oops: it’s not THE vote. VOte on US-India Nuclear Agreement.

  322. hey angienc, lol…

  323. Hillary is so cute. She is being very animated talking to BO. Using her hands, laughing. She’s a better woman than I. I’d just want to kick him in the shins.

  324. I would kick him somewhere else.

  325. fif — I have to believe it is all a part of a long term plan — it is the only way she can create “cover” when BO loses that she did everything she could to help him & to be able in 2012 to be able to get the AA vote back with her when she runs again.

  326. Honora — you actual believe he has one? I’m not convinced.

  327. Governor Palin, a man without eyes saw plums on a tree; he neither took plums nor left plums how can that be?

  328. Mrs. Palin: Please name all 57, 58, or 59 states, in alphabetical order, along with the capitals, and tell us what percentage of residents voted for Barack Obama….

    Senator Biden: Would you like a glass of water?

  329. LOL angelasmith!!

  330. fif- What station are you watching? i have c-span on, but they do not do a running total.

  331. I got an e-mail from the cj political report/ hallicasser-jane.
    In it was an artical from der spiegel entitled
    the end of American arrogance.
    It was sad and shocking an maybe Charles or someone could do a post on it.
    Hillary could change the world perspective of us.
    McCain might be able to change it.
    Backtrack never.

    O’Reilly talking about gwen ifil.



  332. Dennis Miller advising Palin for tomorrow night:

    For those that expected me to be perfect, I’m sorry you are disappointed.

    For those that expect me to give up, get ready, you are going to be really disappointed.

    And, go after them – stop the style over substance.

  333. hey EricaLeigh, I thought of that one for Biden too!

  334. They are bashing Hill again at Corrente. idiots. I don;t know what they want from her. She proposed the better plan, Bill advocated for it, the Dem’s ignored her. What do they want from her?

  335. Everybody please say a prayer tonight for Sarah Palin. I hope she will do well and help McCain send Obama back to Chicago for good.

    Hillary 2012!

  336. Senator Biden, does it disgust you that these shameless women have the nerve to stand there all and think they’re part of the same species as you? And would you characterize Senator Obama as America’s Dream, America’s Best Hope, America’s Greatest Ever Citizen, God’s Gift to Humanity, or God?

  337. Drudge says that the bill requires insurance companies to give mental health parity. That would be one good thing out of this, is it true?

  338. Yes, Paul Wellstones Bill. Finally found a way to get it through.

  339. Mental Health Parity is indeed included.

  340. Honora – yes, we needed it as they have driven us all crazy.

  341. Re Biden:
    they are showing a clip of him walking with some of his staff and one of them tosses him a football
    (oh… big impressive chuck and catch… like maybe three yards).
    Biden insulted East Indian folk with his “one in every 7-ll” type comment.
    And Allen the repub actually made his Macaca comment to an East Indian person.
    And Allen signature (albeit stupid) campaign trick was to always be carrying a football which he would toss out to people in the crowd.

    So, WTF is the matter with Biden’s brain? Why does he want to put the association between him and Allen into people’s heads.

    Plus the fact that Biden insulted Ohio State fans by saying they were gonna get an ass whipping from some second rate football team.

    Why carry a football? Dumb, dumb, dumb doofus Biden.

  342. Thank God, I have family members who have suffered horribly.

  343. Senator Plain, the day you were born, thousands of peole died throughout the world. Do you feel responsible? Would you like to take this opportunity to apologize? Do you hate yourself as much as I hate you?

  344. Seriously – seriously.

  345. Bernie Sanders rocks, can he be my representative?

  346. Gov. Palin? or Senator Biden? Heh, Sen. Plain.

  347. Palin on Gwen Ifill and her book. Notice she owns responsibility for whatever happens. No blaming the voters or anybody, or asking them to get on any one’s face. No whining. She and McCain have to make the case to the voters, and that’s fine with her.

    You know, I’m not going to let it be a concern. Let me just tell you that John McCain has been in an underdog position before, and this ticket, I think it is safe to say, is in an underdog position. But that’s what makes us work harder. It makes us want to communicate more clearly and profoundly with the electorate, letting them know what the contrasts are between these two tickets. It’s motivating to me, even, to hear Gwen’s comments there because, again, it makes us work that much harder, and it provides even more fairness and objectivity and choices for the voters on November 4, if we try that much harder.

  348. Seriously — lol

  349. She’s the AVIS candidate.

  350. I “heart” Sarah!

  351. This just in on the Palin-Biden debate…

    Gwen Ifill’s Impeccable Journalistic Credentials Will be Tested on This Specific Question….


  352. I see Palin is channeling her inner Christina Aguilera:

    “cause it makes me that much stronger
    Makes me work a little bit harder
    It makes me that much wiser
    So thanks for making me a fighter
    Made me learn a little bit faster
    Made my skin a little bit thicker
    Makes me that much smarter
    So thanks for making me a fighter”

  353. can you believe these guys! the country faces financial meltdown, the collapse of the middle class and they stand there petting on one another!

    These people need to go home permanently….

  354. Actually, as much as I love mental health parity (and believe me – part of my poverty stricken childhood was because of having a severely bi-polar mom, frequently hospitalized, whose medical bills mounted and mounted and mounted due to crappy coverage), I have a bit of a problem with putting it in this bill.

    This bill should NOT be dealing with anything other than the crisis at hand. That is the problem with pork and earmarks – someone always wants it in there, often for good reason. But if I support it for MY causes, it’s hard to complain when others tack THEIR causes onto unrelated bills.

  355. Seriously!

  356. I have to be honest…I think McCain and Palin are pulling an Obama tactic here:

    I’m sure they knew about Ifill’s book, but are having the media bring it up the night before so people see the bias.

    Then, McCain/Palin say that Ifill is an objective journalist with integrity and stay away from the mudslinging.

  357. “angelasmith, on October 1st, 2008 at 8:48 pm Said:
    Plus the fact that Biden insulted Ohio State fans by saying they were gonna get an ass whipping from some second rate football team.”

    I saw (and shook hands with) Senator McCain and Governor Palin Monday here in Columbus and they mentioned this line. What nobody has mentioned is that Delaware isn’t on our schedule.

    Joe Biden’s repeated gaffes are not accidental, they are actually serving to distract on purpose from his real shortcomings.

    When he said that Iraq ought to be partitioned and divided, when he voted against defending Kuwait, and so on, his bad ideas about real issues are hidden among static. His apparently silly gaffes allow his defenders to say, ‘oh, that Joe, you know he just says any thing that pops into his mind without thinking.”

    Biden’s recent gaffes are not accidental. They are camoflage for his genuine mistakes in judgement. We talk about them in lieu of his real errors. Please help correct the record.

  358. epicurious — if so, good for them. Personally, I think the whole thing works in Palin’s favor because I bet Ifill tries to be really fair tomorrow but she will already be seen as biased by more then 1/2 the country.

  359. Why don’t they just vote already. I thought they were done with the talking.

  360. WCMB, they have been trying to pass that thing for ten years. I think it was a smart move.

  361. WMCB– Pls do not misunderstand, I agree with you totally. I was just trying to find some bright spot.

  362. ah, Britannia — pols are never done with talking with the cameras are on.

  363. By the way C-SPAN is now covering the bailout vote.

  364. Welfare for the West. Great

  365. “Gov. Palin? or Senator Biden? Heh, Sen. Plain.”

    I swear to god, the minute the lights go out, the typos start! Okay not really since I made one earlier during the day, but it’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it. 🙂

  366. They are voting on the Senate Floor.

  367. Hillary just voted yes on the bail out.

  368. masslib, I know, and I do want to see it done, BADLY. I’m just trying to be fair here, and so it bothers me, even though I believe in itself it’s a good thing.

  369. Yeah, but ten years for something so commonsense..I’m glad it’s in there.

  370. Health care parity is a good thing — I’m sure we all agree on that — but I’m with WMCB on this one — this should have been a “clean bill.”

  371. not even close. I guess they are giving the house cover.

  372. Gov. Palin: What is the GNP of Balize? You have 30 seconds.

    Sen. Biden: Leno or Letterman? You have 10 minutes.

  373. McCain and Obama both vote yes on bail out.

  374. Did McCain Vote?

  375. Bernie Saunders rocks!

  376. Thank GOD for Hillary’s Leadership!

    Hill EEERRRR YYYYYYYYYYY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  377. “I have to be honest…I think McCain and Palin are pulling an Obama tactic here”

    I wouldn’t call it an Obama tactic because Obama is politically clueless, but I agree, it’s a classic political move, get that information out there, say ‘oh no no, we’re happy, we love Gwen’ and know that if she does anything but bend over backwards to be fair to them all the Republicans will come down on her like a ton of bricks and this time, it will actually get some coverage.

    It was the smart move, too. About time they tried to push back against the media.

  378. Biden votes yes on bail out

  379. Carol — why? She will not get any credit for it.

  380. Well, after waiting ten years, I’m for anyway at all. I mean, there are real people who have needed this for ten years.

  381. They are standing around congratulating themselves on a wonderful job they are doing. And I just opened another Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup.

  382. masslib — no one is arguing that it isn’t a good thing — but just remember how you feel now next time a “bridge to nowhere” gives tacked on to some bill. You’ll have no face to criticize.

  383. I hope the banks get credit!

    I’m going to go make Chili!

    All I have eaten for days is Carr’s Sesame and Poppy Seed Crackers – I would fail a drug test if I had to take one.

  384. Hey PJ pass them down to Baltimore.

  385. McCain will mark it off the page.

  386. Hillary to Obama with a big smile: “You lying piece of crap. This is the very last time I agree to pull your cajones out of the fire. From now on, lift your own baggage you Know Nothing, Do Nothing charlatan. You ra*cist ignoramus. I beat you fair and square and yet you stand here like a peacock like for one minute I believe you can even balance you checkbook without help. Gasbag!”

  387. All others “aye”

    Barasso: No
    Brownback: No
    Bunning: No
    Cantwell: No
    Clinton: AYE
    Cochran: No
    Crapo: No
    DeMint: No
    Dole: No
    Dorgin: No
    Enzi: No
    Feingold: No
    Johnson: No
    Inhoff: No
    McCain: AYE
    Nelson: No
    Obama: AYE
    Roberts: No
    Sanders: No
    Sessions: No
    Shelby: No
    Stabenow: No
    Tester: No
    Vitter: No
    Wicker: No
    Wyden: No

    Y = 65 N = 19

    So far…

  388. Biden, Clinton, McCain, and Obama all vote yes on bail out.

    Bail out bill passes the Senate 74-25 (Kennedy not voting)

  389. Honora: CSPAN Senate not House

  390. 74-25

  391. Honora: Not done yet. Any left over they are yours.

  392. they say they have 75

  393. Some prominent Dems voted NO.

  394. so, how many ornaments festoon this christmas tree?

  395. Great- they look better on your hips anyway.

  396. cnn was wrong, it’s 74

  397. Seriously: I agree re: Ifill. Now that there has been such a backlash, she doesn’t dare show favoritism. It’s actually helped Palin. Then again, these people are shameless and she might do whatever she wants anyway and the MSM would defend her fiercely.

  398. yes, honora

  399. Honora: Like my honor, my hips have disappeared.

  400. Just received this from DNCReform:

    If you have cable or satellite television go to your guide IMMEDIATELY, start at the lowest channel and go up channel by channel, LOOK FOR THE NEW

    I have DISH TV until tomm. and here in the Detroit area channel 73 states clearly the programming has been purchased by “Tribune Media;” however when I called DISH Network I was very rudely told anyone can purchase a station. I explained this was a CLEAR VIOLATION OF CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS They told me no it was not.



  401. angela: I know! by the time I type something, someone else has thought the same and it appears ahead of mine. I guess I shouldn’t take so much time reading the posts.

    WMCB: I agree about all these add-ons. It’s infuriating that in a time of acclaimed crisis, these Senators are using this as an opportunity to bilk the people to pay for their pet projects, etc. I find that shameful, I truly do.

  402. angienc, on October 1st, 2008 at 9:17 pm Said:

    masslib — no one is arguing that it isn’t a good thing — but just remember how you feel now next time a “bridge to nowhere” gives tacked on to some bill. You’ll have no face to criticize.

    But it isn’t a bridge to no where. It’s peoples health.

  403. wow, both my senators voted no

  404. dakninikat: Would that be Landrieu and Vitter? Different sides of the aisle. Interesting.

  405. how can you vote for this much spending and vote to extend some of these retiring tax cuts… that is really chutzpah

  406. yes, Pat … it would

  407. masslib, the system is broken. We cannot claim we want to fix the system, then make exceptions for things that are important to US, no matter how worthy those causes are.

    Bills should pertain to the subject at hand, PERIOD. Especially with this crisis, no one should be tacking extraneous stuff onto it to muddy the waters, not even GOOD stuff. Mental health parity has nothing to do with solving a liquidity crisis.

  408. golly, I might be cynical (well, duh) but I’m looking at the senators who voted no and wondering who’s got presidential aspirations.

  409. shoot senate passes Rescue package-America’s john and Jane Q Public screwed again! 75 yeah 25 nay

  410. Am I wrong in assuming that both Landrieu and Vitter are in trouble in LA? This may account for their votes. Feingold bailed on it too.

  411. how many no votes wer from senators in tuff relection bids?

  412. Well the Senate just added another billion or so before voting. Let’s see what the House can add on by Friday. A billion here, a billion there. No sweat.

  413. Nah, Pat, Landrieu’s latest numbers look pretty solid, and Vitter has a lock on his solidly conservative territory.

  414. now the house has a blank check-see all spending bills must originate in the house of representitives

  415. I don’t think they can change the amount from Senate to House. If they did they’d have to send it back for another vote. The Bills have to be identical in each chamber of Congress.

  416. How Much for Acorn?

  417. There’s none for ACORN. They were removed from the bailout a few days ago. Did I miss something?

  418. Sooo, how did Texas vote? Anybody know?

  419. there will be a joint resolution committee to hammer out any differences – in the bills and both will go back for a vote

  420. Hutchison & Cornyn? Probably, Yes. Jackson-Lee voted no yesterday.

  421. I don’t know fuzzy, my senators will be in the Senate long after all of us have died and gone to that big PUMA cocktail party in the sky.

  422. heard on NWW Puma Radio that they changed the name of the Acorn part but they still get the money!

  423. I posted a new thread up stairs to discuss the vote !!!

  424. Obama and McCain both voted yes. You will know Friday whether they really support it. The bill failed in the House because a group of conservative Republicans voted no and a large number of Democratic members of the Congressional Black Caucus voted no.

    If McCain tells them to vote for it, the conservative republicans in the House will go along. If Obama lobbies for it, members of the Black Caucus will vote yes and the bill will pass.

    My prediction is that the bill will pass in the House on Friday because enough conservative republicans will change their vote and come on board.

    My guess is that Black Caucus members will still vote no because Obama actually wants the bail out to fail.

    McCain’s polls are in free fall and Obama is extending his lead because of all the economic and financial turmoil.

    Obama actually wants the turmoil to continue. It’s not patriotic but it does seem to be politically expedient.

  425. ACORN is busy changing their name and incorporating under a different acronym.

    Someone suggested FESTER but it didn’t get enough support.

    Maybe it’ll be called HOPE.

    They’ll try to weasel it in this bill….”hey,hey, this isnt ACORN damn it, this is HOPE. They have no bad track record at all. Come on now…”

  426. Could Harry Reid be any more of a nerd.

    O God, now he is praising Chris Dodd. “He’s more impressed by him every day.” At least he praised Gregg (NH) too.

    McConnell: The Senate at it’s finest. McCain & Obama played a part and that is significant. Hails bipartisanship.

    Dodd AGAIN. Way too much Dodd time. Quite a pompadour he’s workin’ there.

  427. I’m telling ya if ever a chemical imbalance happens between Rogaine and Viagra, half of these guys are going to be fried. Dodd and Biden will be the first to go.

  428. I think the Senate and House can pass different bills, doesn’t it then go to a joint conference committee to iron out the differences?

  429. WigWag, 95 Democrats voted against it, it wasn’t just CBC members. 1/3 of the CBC supported Clinton anyway, it’s not like they’re Obama puppets. A lot of Democrats voted against it because of the cram down provisions being stripped out, and because they live in districts with a lot of foreclosures (like my Congressman). It’s hard to explain to your constituents why you’re screwing them in a midst of a massive bailout.

  430. I watched a clip of Feinstein saying she had 91,000 calls today… 85,000 against the bill. Now I am watching some talking head on Fox saying he thinks it’s 50/50 for the public. My Congressperson voted no yesterday. My Senators voted yes today. Cr@p. Oh yippee, wooden arrowhead manufacturing in tax exempt.

    A little nauseaus watching them smile and fawn over each other. They are happy they don’t have to work another weekend.

  431. That’s true, Seriously, but the bill needs less than 20 additional votes to pass the House, Obama could easily get that many CBC members to change their votes if he wanted to. Even many of the members who supported Hillary would change their votes if their Presidential candidate asked them to do so in a public way.

  432. angelasmith, on October 1st, 2008 at 9:48 pm Said:
    I’m telling ya if ever a chemical imbalance happens between Rogaine and Viagra, half of these guys are going to be fried. Dodd and Biden will be the first to go.


  433. Maybe, but I don’t think that would be appropriate. Obama only cares about himself, Congresspeople should have to answer to their constituents. These ridiculous ARMs are deliberately targeted to low income people and I’m sure there are many CBC members who, like my Congressman, are in districts where many people are suffering because of it. If Obama wants those votes, he should be restoring the cram down provisions, not strong arming Congresspeople to vote against their constituents’ wishes.

    The CBC members didn’t do anything wrong, obama did in stripping the bill in the first place. He’s the one who should be put on the spot publicly.

  434. I saw Joe Klein at the Republican National Convention. I was with another Hillary supporter who knows him. She mentioned why we were there and he looked at us and said “You’re out of your minds.”


  435. Lets see how this one pans Out

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