• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Beata on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Propertius on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    jmac on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Propertius on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    jmac on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Propertius on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Propertius on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Propertius on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Propertius on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    riverdaughter on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
    Propertius on Episode 16: Public Speaki…
  • Categories


  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare occupy wall street OccupyWallStreet Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

    January 2011
    S M T W T F S
     1
    2345678
    9101112131415
    16171819202122
    23242526272829
    3031  
  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

    • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.
  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

  • Top Posts

Descent into madness

Before

After


The New York Times:

The account by Mr. Loughner’s friend, a rare extended interview with someone close to Mr. Loughner in recent years, added some details to the emerging portrait of the suspect and his family.

“He was a nihilist and loves causing chaos, and that is probably why he did the shooting, along with the fact he was sick in the head,” said Zane Gutierrez, 21, who was living in a trailer outside Tucson and met Mr. Loughner sometimes to shoot at cans for target practice.

[…]

The new details from Mr. Gutierrez about Mr. Loughner — including his philosophy of anarchy and his expertise with a handgun, suggest that the earliest signs of behavior that may have ultimately led to the attacks started several years ago.

Mr. Gutierrez said his friend had become obsessed with the meaning of dreams and their importance. He talked about reading Friedrich Nietzsche’s book “The Will To Power” and embraced ideas about the corrosive, destructive effects of nihilism — a belief in nothing. And every day, his friend said, Mr. Loughner would get up and write in his dream journal, recording the world he experienced in sleep and its possible meanings.

“Jared felt nothing existed but his subconscious,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “The dream world was what was real to Jared, not the day-to-day of our lives.”

And that dream world, his friend said, could be downright strange.

“He would ask me constantly, ‘Do you see that blue tree over there?’ He would admit to seeing the sky as orange and the grass as blue,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “Normal people don’t talk about that stuff.”

He added that Mr. Loughner “used the word hollow to describe how fake the real world was to him.”


As more and more details emerge about Jared Loughner it is becoming clear that the warning signs were there long before he went on his murderous spree. I can’t help but feel that the system failed somewhere.

The story I linked to above reports that the police had been to the Loughner home on more than one occasion but it’s not yet clear why they were there. There are rumors going round that the Pima County Sheriff’s Office may have known more about Loughner than they are willing to admit.

I think we need to examine closely the last few years of Jared Loughner’s life to see what could and/or should have been done that might have prevented this horrible tragedy.

There is nothing political or partisan about trying to improve our nation’s mental health services. I’m not a mental health professional but some of our readers are and others have had close personal experiences with mentally ill friends and family members.

I’d like to see some informed discussion in the comments about what is wrong with our current system and what we can do to fix it, especially in regards to early identification and treatment of people with mental illnesses.

NOTE:

This post is NOT about political rhetoric and its relevance to this tragedy. We’ve had those discussions and I’m sure we’ll have them again. This post is about mental illness. Stay on topic or your comments will be deleted.


UPDATE:

Sometimes you write a post and hit “publish” and within minutes you find something that fits right in with the topic. From William Galston at The New Republic:

The story repeats itself, over and over. A single narrative connects the Unabomber, George Wallace shooter Arthur Bremmer, Reagan shooter John Hinckley, the Virginia Tech shooter—all mentally disturbed loners who needed to be committed and treated against their will. But the law would not permit it.

Starting in the 1970s, civil libertarians worked to eliminate involuntary commitment or, that failing, to raise the standards and burden of proof so high that few individuals would meet it. Important decisions by the Supreme Court and subordinate courts gave individuals new protections, including a constitutional right to refuse psychotropic medication. A few states have tried to push back in constitutionally acceptable ways, but efforts such as California’s Laura’s Law, designed to make it easier to force patients to take medication, have been stymied by civil rights concerns and lack of funding.

We need legal reform to shift the balance in favor of protecting the community, especially against those who are armed and deranged. This means two changes in particular. First, those who acquire credible evidence of an individual’s mental disturbance should be required to report it to both law enforcement authorities and the courts, and the legal jeopardy for failing to do so should be tough enough to ensure compliance. Parents, school authorities, and other involved parties should be made to understand that they have responsibilities to the community as a whole, not just to family members or to their own student body. While embarrassment and reluctance to get involved are understandable sentiments, they should not be allowed to drive conduct when the public safety is at stake. We’re not necessarily cramming these measures down anyone’s throat: I’ve known many families who were desperate for laws that would help them do what they knew needed to be done for their adult children, and many college administrators who felt that their hands were tied.

Second, the law should no longer require, as a condition of involuntary incarceration, that seriously disturbed individuals constitute a danger to themselves or others, let alone a “substantial” or “imminent” danger, as many states do. A delusional loss of contact with reality should be enough to trigger a process that starts with multiple offers of voluntary assistance and ends with involuntary treatment, including commitment if necessary. How many more mass murders and assassinations do we need before we understand that the rights-based hyper-individualism of our laws governing mental illness is endangering the security of our community and the functioning of our democracy?


51 Responses

  1. I believe that people who are mentally unstable use political theory or religious points to try and understand what is happening inside their own mind. That, IMHO, is why this incident intersects with politics. In some cases it is religion. It is an attempt to deal with the bizarre thoughts and explain what is happening to them. It unfortunately hinders getting psychiatric help because they use political or religious causes, rather than their own brain as the problem. Forced intervention seems tomb the only answer in these cases.

  2. What is the date of the picture on he left? Having the 2 pictures side by side says it all.

  3. My mother has paranoid personality disorder (and other clustered mental problems). She has turned in inward and believes everyone is out to harm her.

    Upon advice of legal counsel we also have had to cut off all contact. When we do have contact we always have each other for witness. My mother often calls the police to report the “crimes” others are committing against her. I was finally convinced by an attorney to stay away from her after I was accused of beating her.

    We have tried unsuccessfully to get help for her. Told again and again that we cannot do much until she has harmed herself or another. So we wait.

    • That’s terrible.

      • It is what it is. Everyone has sorrows that they must bear.

        • It is really hard to lose somebody to mental illness (or addiction) where the person is still around but can’t be present in our lives. Having that happen to your mom… I wish there were better supports to help people.

        • It is a shame that we cannot simply accept that a certain percentage(3%?) of us will be mentally unstable and do best in a setting with people like themselves. The State hospitals that Reagan got rid of were a real benefit to society.
          This guy’s parents had to know he was unstable – to put it mildly. Is there a place in Arizona he could have gone to live?

    • What state are you in? Rather than waiting you might find some help with others who are experiencing the same, and from other’s who like your mother, have recovered.

      One of the biggest issues I see is that people don’t know where to get help (because their is little today in way of resources), and the police department are not trained to deal with mental illness.

      Here’s a good activity for each us: Put yourself in Indigogrri place, and find the people in your state, in your county, in your city that might help. Who and where are the services to help mentally ill and their families.?

      • fannie ~ my partner is a social worker… I am surrounded by social workers and mental health pros.
        trust me when I say we have exhausted our avenues and are now in a waiting game.

        • That’s good to hear, many don’t know what to do and where to go for help. I wish your family well.

    • ((indigogrrl))

      • hugs back…it really is OK. I have accepted what it is and will step up when the time comes.

        • I do miss her though…she wasn’t always as bad as she is now.

          • That must be so hard. My mom died when I was pretty young — it left such a hole in me. But it’s easy for people to understand and accept that loss.
            It seems so much harder for the families of those who are losing or have lost their loved ones to mental illness.

          • Hugs to both of you, and peace.

  4. The New Republic advocacy is repugnant. As someone who works in the mental illness field, I am very aware of who historically gets targeted. That article is alarmist and dangerous. Read point two and use your thinking caps. I am deeply bothered that this was presented as worthwhile reading instead of being condemned and called out.

    • I’m not so sure about repugnant as much as uninformed and pretty useless. “Civil libertarians” didn’t just arbitrarily latch onto commitment standards. There were widespread abuses of involuntary commitment powers for hundreds of years before the issue started to gain some traction.

      A law won’t suddenly make resources and education available to those families, communities, and mental health workers who need them. What about we try giving them the help they need first before we start changing the law.

      Truly, I think “a danger to yourself or others” is a pretty good standard.

    • Agreed, Vanessa. Now is the time that people will push hard to put involuntary commitment back on the books, and then every marginalized group will pay the goddamn price for it.

  5. Trying to get help for the mentally ill is really atrocious in this country. People have rights and we don’t want to make it easy to involuntarily commit people on a whim, but we’ve swung way too far in the other direction.

    Most mentally ill people are not dangerous at all, but many of them are a danger to their own selves and spend their lives in this revolving cycle of jail, hospital, and the streets. If they don’t voluntarily agree to some help, it is virtually impossible to help them.

    • The only reason my mother isn’t homeless is that she has money (from my father and stepfather).

      • As I pointed to (earlier post) a friend who’s mother’s suffered mentall illness after her husband was killed by drunk driver, they too had money, but that wasn’t the issue for my friends mother. It was the issue of withdrawing totally from family and society.

  6. …there seems to be a general reluctance by the public and law enforcement to place mentally disturb young adults within the criminal justice system. Not knowing either system, Mental Health or Criminal Justice, well I’m not sure what the issues are, but it dose seem the natural tendency is not to send a ill patient to a cop as a remedy. The dangerously ill patient who is performing criminal acts seems to be where the gap lies.

    • Lots of mentally ill people get caught up in the criminal justice system revolving door. Cops can resolve their problems with the mentally ill by arresting them for drug possession and other minor offenses. It gets the mentally ill person out of their hair but fixes nothing. For many of the mentally ill, they go back and forth between homelessness and prison/jail.

      • That says it all about the failures of treatment. We need to seek/demand improvements.

      • There was an excellent program on PBS that showed exactly this: they get better while in prison and then falter when paroled. Those who are caught up in the ring, consistently did not take their medications while on parole; living in half-way houses had little effect. That’s the difficult part because oftentimes their medication dosages were taken 3-7x per day. It’s hard enough for mentally stable people to keep up on that dosage schedule. It was heartbreaking to see these parolees go through the revolving door.

        • Better drug delivery systems, like patches that last for months, would go a long way to helping with that problem.

          djmm

          • How about implants?

          • It depends on the person’s illness. You can put in a device to medicate someone, but if they don’t like the way they feel, (these drugs can have significant side-effects) they will self-medicate with other drugs to counteract the medication.

          • Some of these exist already. It may be one way to deal with the problem. Of course, you still have to be able to remember to change them, or to get to the doctor’s office. ADLs are a big deal, some people just shouldn’t be living independently. And some families just can’t deal with having to be full-time caretakers to a person with serious mental health issues.

  7. MIQ,

    Finally made my comment on the tragedy and included your earlier post:
    http://syd4.blogspot.com/2011/01/msm-boiz-try-to-take-down-two-women.html

    Now… back to lurking.

    Oh, and thanks for keeping me sane!

  8. What Stirling Newberry said:

    They say he was crazy. They took away his future, denied him medication, and gave him a gun.

  9. Well, in my opinion we’ve been trying to treat government like a business for a long time now rather than as an essential tool for community building. When they decided to stop paying for mental health back in the ’80’s it was a tragic case of misunderstanding what the purpose of a government is actually for. We can try to separate politics from this and focus on mental health aspects only but it would belie the fact that our government and its policies have profound affects on our society.

    I think this event underscores the need for vastly improving mental health care in this country as well as improving access to quality health care for all. I just don’t see how a civilized society can find these social problems to be acceptable aspects of capitalism. It is 2010 and we have scores of mentally ill people walking around, not receiving treatment of any sort with many being homeless. This is just not acceptable to me.

    Unfortunately, it is just 1 symptom of a greater disease that permeates this country. Greed, envy, apathy. We’ve got all of those well covered. Until we can get over the profound narcissism that infects us all we are never, ever going to make progress. We aren’t going to improve the lives of the less fortunate and we aren’t going to improve the political discourse either.

  10. Some of the chatter on the crime boards mentions that Laughner was able to speak coherently and maintain composure during his court appearance. Regarding paranoid schizophrenia, it’s not something someone can turn off and on, is it?

    • If they are acting “sane” in a court hearing, they may be under the delusion that they are humoring the judge or the lawyers in order to escape their grasp.

      • So they can pretend “sane,” or at least control their insanity when they want to? (I’m not being a smart ass, I’m genuinely curious.) I also find it interesting that the crazy guy immediately invoked his rights.

        • The difference is between erratic and sane. The solution to crazy people used to be lobotomizing them or doping them up. They looked calm and docile on the outside, but they were barely aware of reality.

          Let’s say you had good reason to be paranoid. Everyone else is out to get you and they’ve arrested you and locked you up. You might tell the truth about a grand conspiracy in court and sound crazy, or you might shut up and hope you are let go.

          In other words, if you are crazy you can still think you’re sane.

    • It’s not something you can entirely control (with medication to an extent), but severe paranoid schizophrenia once active or in the process of becoming active during the person’s late teens and 20s turns on and off by itself frequently. It is like night and day. One moment, the person can have full recognition and awareness and love and brillance and zest for life, the next moment zero recognition and awareness, darkness, rage, paranoid delusions. It is the hardest thing I have experienced in the context of relationships in my life.

      • Thanks, Three Wickets. That sounds nightmarish. I dealt with the “normal” unpredictable and erratic teens and can’t begin to imagine the added factor of mental illness.

        It’s so disconcerting to see Laughner’s crazy eyed mug shot and then read about his low-key demeanor in court. I can’t help but wonder if he’s playing the crazy angle up. But the two extremes fit your description. It will be interesting to see if that’s what the psych evaluations uncover.

    • Crazy isn’t just bibbledy bibbledy. Some mental disorders look pretty sane until you get underneath. Some schizophrenics can play it pretty cool, it depends on what is going on in the moment. And this guy is probably on mega-doses of Thorazine or something similarly anti-psychotic and sedating at the moment.

      • sandress, thanks, I appreciate the mini education. Thanks to all who responded to my questions.

  11. I sure don’t want the “thought police” to come after us. I don’t want the government to be able to find sneaky ways to put people away! Just my thoughts!

    • What would you suggest we do?

      • I don’t have all the answers, but my beliefs I put into this post and I would appreciate it if you would check it out. http://www.ksvoboda.com/?p=1262
        Everyone seems shocked but after Columbine, this doesn’t shock me. I don’t believe this is something new at all, but a part of what has been happening in our society. I speak from my perspective of being a middle school art teacher.

  12. Recommended: Joseph at Cannonfire traces the degeneration of treatment for the mentally ill in the US:

    http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2011/01/yes-conservatives-did-create-jared-lee.html

    djmm

Comments are closed.