Let’s put aside your increasingly delusional thinking about how EEEEEVIL Hillary is with her wicked neoliberal machinations that she is going to gag you with.
If you voted for Obama in 2008 and didn’t think the system was rigged and never raised your voice when the evidence of the rigging was staring you in the face from your TV during the Rules Committee meeting in May 2008 as Harold Ickes furiously said “You bet your ass I’m angry”, then you weren’t paying attention. It was deeply unfair and rigged, especially when the candidates went to the convention in a statistical deadheat in elected delegates but a plan by the DNC to cover it up denied Hillary a real role call vote.
Oh, but that was OK because it was Hillary, right?
I suppose you’re going to tell me that we should ignore all of the primary state votes this year and that only caucus states are holy and inviolable because, after all, this is Hillary we are talking about.
And it was perfectly OK with you that the woman who had won the popular vote in 2008 but through elected delegate reapportionment in Michigan for a candidate who wasn’t even on the effing ballot, lost the elected delegate count by a tiny, tiny amount, was abandoned by the superdelegates en masse and in vastly dispproportionate numbers to her delegate count. Those superdelegates, if they were following rules you insisted on this year, would have given her the win in 2008. One of those disloyal superdelegates broke the news to Hillary that they were leaving her. Do you know who that person was? Debbie Wasserman Shultz. But that’s OK because it’s just Hillary we are talking about.
Do you know WHY we went PUMA in 2008? It wasn’t about Hillary. It was about how a bunch of arrogant, militant, temper tantrum throwing mostly male voters decided to substitute their judgement for the judgement of 18,000,000 voters who did not vote for the candidate of THEIR choosing. And the DNC approved that message. It was because rigging the primary was setting a bad precedent and as Ickes said, was a bad way to start down the road to party unity. In fact, I might argue that it was that very Rules Committee meeting back in 2008 that makes you think that if you just make enough noise, you can get any primary outcome overturned. Because it’s just Hillary.
Compared to the PUMAs of 2008, you have no right to complain. She. Won. Nothing Debbie said or emailed changes that. Even if there were no superdelegates, she still won. It wasn’t even close. Every vote for her was a legitimate vote and the sum of those legitimate votes was greater than the sum of his legitimate votes.
This is not a childhood organized sport where everyone gets an award. In this game, there can be only one clear winner and this year, there was no cheating. Even if Debbie gave you every delegate from Nevada like the DNC gave an overwhelming number of delegates from Michigan to Obama, Bernie still would have lost. This year there were no reasons for dirty tricks because it was never close.
And here we are AGAIN, the votes of 16.5 million people held hostage by a bunch of arrogant voters from the other candidate’s side who are convinced beyond all reason that Hillary is some kind of demon incarnate who is going to jump on us while we’re sleeping and suck out our political souls. Not all of Bernie’s people of course. Some of them are old enough to remember when primaries that resulted in a clear winner meant “Better luck next time”.
This year, like 2008, it is not about Hillary vs her opponent. It is about one group of voters arrogantly demanding that they substitute their judgment for everyone else’s because they know what’s good for us. OUR votes are negligible, YOUR votes are the only ones that count.
Vote for whoever you like in the fall. Nothing we do or say is going to persuade you otherwise. Your vote is your own.
But if you think the Clinton supporters at this year’s convention are going to let you get away with invalidating our choices and make a spectacle out of the proceedings, you may be very surprised by what happens next.
Filed under: General | Tagged: 2008 convention, Bernie people, PUMA |
The Confluence 
Brava!
To the last paragraph count me in. I consider you the best historian of that dark time of our party. I don’t believe I will ever get over it.
Absolutely agree.
Well-said!
I’m going to go out on a limb here but I suspect that DWS knows where the bodies are buried wrt 2008 because she was one of the super delegates and Hillary Campaign chairpersons that Obama reached out to secretly during the primary season. He must have offered her something significant to make her and the other Clinton Superdelegates to turn on her.
I think the loyalty thing with the clintons ended back then. She is obama’s creature and she has the evidence trail that leads back to him. She’s not going to leave the stage without a firm push. And Obama is not going to do it.
I have been wondering how the Hillary supporters will react when the boos start tonight, or any night. I hope they can drown out the others but am not sure they can or will be louder than the raucus B supporters.
Related: Chris Cuomo again today asking Hillary surrogates why Hillary doesn’t apologize more sincerely (my word, can’t recall his) about the emails, since people don’t trust her. It sounds like the media wants her to get on her knees and plead for forgiveness on TV, in prime time, of course.
Also, how come the media is so concerned about the Bernie supporters getting the entire Bernie “platform” but not one person on TV has noted that the Hillary supporters are owed her support too. What about those who voted for her? Don’t they deserve a nod from Hillary? And, I personally see nothing wrong with including moderate Dems in her tent. Not everyone is far left and still are progressive, compared to the right. I thought we had a big tent that includes all Dems, not just Bernie supporters.
As for Hillary supporters getting respect, I think it’s up to Bernie to point that out in his speech tonight.
Hillary was subjected to MUCH worse shenanigans in the DNC in 2008. Now it’s Bernie. Neither of them deserve it but that’s no reason to invalidate her win or tarnish what she accomplished.
Bernie has to take this on or we will need to start bringing up the past in person.
Something the Putin-enabled WikiLeaker dupes don’t want folks to notice: Both DNC top brass and the Clinton campaign firmly rejected the shenanigans lower-level DNCers proposed.
But we all knew that the Angry White Males and their fellow travelers like Susan Sarandon that make up the core of the far right and far left would use any pretext to scream at Hillary.
2008 was bad for sure press, DNC, Wall Street, just ugly. But my plan this year is to embrace and enjoy the nomination of the first competent candidate, by either political party, in a very long time. And if the Bernie Babies and Trump Creeps show their diaper rashes again, I’m going to shout them down, dust them off and move on.
Ditto.
Bernie was a good negotiator for his cohort. I really appreciated what he did this year.
Too bad his more inflexible supporters are going to ruin his reputation and crush the joy out of what should be a century long struggle for women and suffragettes and a 8 year struggle for Hillary.
She and her supporters deserve more respect.
“your increasingly delusional thinking about how EEEEEVIL Hillary is with her wicked neoliberal machinations that she is going to gag you wit”
Off hand, intelligent informed US politics experts who have described these politicians as center-right to right-wing DLC neoliberals: BClinton, 0bama, & HClinton (being an even worse neoliberal than 0bama, especially on warmongering/MIC welfare):
Prof. Noam Chomsky
Prof. Cornell West
Nakedcapitalism journalists Yves Smith & Lambert Strether
journalist Paul Jay from Therealnews
blogger Ian Welsh
BTW, in particular watch an interview of Chomsky or Paul Jay, they have the most calm, sober, “boring” personality possible. To accuse these rational observers of being emotional is comical, & perhaps is psychological projection.
I see that you link to ianwelsh & nakedcapitalism, despite you implying they are “delusional” for accurately assessing HClinton as a right-wing neoliberal.
Ian and Yves occasionally sound sane and good at what they know but I’m sorry, 16.5 million people do not see things the way you do. Even the Bernie people I canvassed mostly do not see things the way you do and I met a lot of them who I identified with strongly. I could have been a Bernie supporter this year.
But you guys have gone into tin-foil hat territory and it has to stop. It has to stop because Bernie lost. Hillary won.
Our votes matter.
Even if you think the world is going to end you need to stop and respect the will of the people who are almost completely on your side.
You remind me of the cultists I grew up with always predicting the end of the world that never came and all too willing to sacrifice the lives of their children to a religion just so they could say they were right someday.
Your fears are exaggerated and I say this as a perpetually anxiety wracked individual.
Chomsky should stick to linguistics.
West is a joke. Being a prof of something or other doesn’t give you special political super powers, other than maybe impressing Bill Maher so you get on tv and badmouth the people who have supported you. Go ahead and pretend on that Bell curve political spectrum that somehow Clinton is center Right and tRump is just barely Right.
“Being a cardiologist, doesn’t give somebody super surgeon powers” probably Churl.
Wikipedia Cornell West, his field is political philosophy. West is an expert on US politics.
“tRump is just barely right” Strawman. I said Trump is a fascist, overall he is right-wing, & more right-wing than his fellow right-winger HClinton.
Are you deferring to authority? As a researcher who spent years listening to presentations by PhDs I can tell you that there are always good reasons to challenge what looks like confirmation bias.
BTW, I think we’re done. You seem incapable of acknowledging the damage done to Hillary in 2008 despite seeing it with your own eyes.
An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere only seems to apply to Bernie.
The rest of us don’t register with you at all. We are just faceless, nameless inconsequential voters who you can dismiss.
There is nothing you can possibly say at this point that would make me sympathetic to your point of view.
Bernie sanders worked his ass off for you and drove a hard political bargain. He lost honorably.
Don’t ruin all of his accomplishments. Some of us still admire him.
I’d prefer to have a surgeon cut me open than a cardiologist actually and since I’ve been on the receiving end of both I can offer a moderately informed opinion. I am not disagreeing that tRump is an orange Nazi, I am vehemently disputing your opinion of Clinton.
My irritation is with the media, mostly TV but also print. They keep asking “what do Bernie supporters want?” but no one asks what Hillary supporters want. I guess that is asking too much. I suspect that it is almost the same thing. But not quite. For example, I do not think we can afford free college as I don’t see how Americans would agree to the tax increases it would take. I do think we need less expensive college, which is different. I am OK with a center left candidate and maybe that makes me not progressive. I actually would like the utopia Bernie espouses but am realist enough to know it is unlikely to happen as long as we have an almost evenly divided country re government role specifics (military, education, infrastructure, environment, etc). As a H supporter, I want the unsafe bridges fixed!! Plus higher quality education and health care in equal measures. And, of course, jobs that support a true middle class and provide a living wage to lower income folks.
I agree. I’d love to live in Scandinavian America but it will be a minimum of fifty years before we get close because of forty years of right wing goal posting moving and the looting of our national treasury through wars and tax cuts. I want that. But like most rational people, I realize, as you do, that we’re not going to get there in one presidential term, even if we have Mr. Magic, St. Bernie of the Hardwoods, as Benevolent Despot.
Great post.
Alas, the MSM is far more interested in Democratic Chaos at Convention than in Putin Intervenes in US Election on Behalf of Trump, but the latter is the real story here.
If the “Putin controls Trump” narrative proves true–I would assume the proper agencies are investigating–the national security establishment will not allow Trump to become President. I think Clinton can win honestly, but if she can’t, I expect the Powers That Be can control the unaccountable voting machines if they need to.
For that matter, I expect the national security establishment has tentacles into the corporate media which it can use, if the NSE decides that the Putin intervention should be emphasized.
This just may be easier than I had hoped. 😈
“tin-foil hat territory”
No, RD, these days it’s aluminum foil. 😉
Aluminium
Veddy British of you, old darling.
Do you call element 74 “tungsten”, or the Continental term “wolfram”? The latter makes me think of some gene-spliced critter, half-wolf and half-sheep. 😮
LOL! Tungsten but I know the symbol is W
Reminds me of a chemistry test where prof asked us to name element with symbol Gd. Some memorable answers, gonadium, godamnerum.
It was gadolinium.
The first map from Electoral-Vote.com is encouraging.
I watched Bernie wimp out on trying to control his mob (pardon me, his revolution) this afternoon. He will have to walk on water tonight for H but I don’t think he can. I hope they have lots of security in the hall.
I don’t know that I agree he ran an honorable campaign, due to his behavior and words after it was clear he had lost…he kept feeding nasty anti-Hillary stuff to Trump, knowing full well that he had lost. Before that, he hitched a ride on a party he despised for 25 years and even almost won. But almost is not a win. I agree that his group should yield gracefully and move forward and hope that the Philly group is a minority of Bernie supporters.
Sorry, but I watched a man with boyish looks defeat a competent, talented H in ’08 and a wild looking man almost do it again in ’16. I am just not as generous and forgiving as RD.
Besides, I am 77 and who knows if I will last thru the rest of this crap but surely may not make it another 4 years. That is my excuse and I am sticking to it.
I think if Bernie hits the right notes tonight in his speech most of his supporters are going to back Hillary. Actually I think most of them have already. I think they are a very vocal minority without any objective
RD “..there was no cheating.”
RD, I respectfully ask you to read this quality article detailing HClinton/DLC’s cheating/rigging of the 2016 D Primary, including the prior incidents, & this latest Wikileaks DNC emails leak
IMHO any fair observer would conclude that HClinton/DLC/D Establishment like NY & RI Gov/etc 2016 D Primary election rigging is similarly morally unethical as the 2000 Bush43/FL Gov Jeb Bush/SCOTUS election rig.
There was no cheating. Emails aren’t evidence of a rigged election. You can’t be this unreasonable. Where were you in 2008 when the primary actually WAS rigged in Obama’s favor? They stole Hillary’s delegates at the RBC meeting. Now THAT is rigging. They didn’t steal voted they didn’t rig the voting machine. Take your faux outrage elsewhere.
Most fair observers don’t give a damn about this “email scandal” Debbie is likely gonna be re-elected and Hillary will be nominated in Philly. Nothing will change it.
You are accusing Clinton voters of participating in voter fraud? Did we unknowingly participate in unethical behavior? Did we stuff the ballot boxes, tinker with the Sequoia machines? Did we strip Bernie of delegates and give them to Hillary?
What exactly are you suggesting that 16,500,000 of us did?
Because if she cheated Bernie then we must have been in on it or how else did she get so many votes?
We had to know what was going on. Right?
Do you realize how convoluted and improbable this is starting to sound? Do you realize that every time you post this crap you insult every Clinton voter who evaluated both candidates and decided to back her?
No, you do not.
Insulting us never even occurred to you. We are not really people with agency. Only you are wise and woke.
You need to apologize to us.
You may want an apology, RD. For my part, I’ll settle for his not letting the door hit his @$$ on the way out.
Did you read the article? If so, what is your take on the article?
“You are accusing Clinton voters of participating in voter fraud”. Strawman. Just like how in Nov 2000, random Bush43 voters in NH or TX or wherever legitimately voted for Shrub, you legitimately voted for HClinton in the 2016 Primary. But just because there were many earnest Nov 2000 Bush43 voters & 2016 HClinton Primary voters, does not negate the undemocratic vote rigging/fraud that occurred in both cases.
Are you among “HClinton/DLC/D Establishment like NY & RI Gov/etc”? If not, then you did not participate in voting fraud.
Reading is fundamental! (c) Shaquille O’Neal
You are trying to invalidate the votes of 16,500,000 people. I think it’s up to you to show why we should do that. Because you are going to piss off a lot of people who voted with the intention of winning the primary for their candidate.
If you feel that evidence of cheating sullies your vote, reason would seem to demand that your ire at that should be directed at the those who cheated, not at those who uncovered the evidence.
Ignorance isn’t bliss.
Not quite sure which side XFR is on here. 😕
I’ll see you your eeek-Putin’s-stolen-emails-prove-DNC-bias with the-two-headed-coin-trick. You know, the stunt where one of Team Sanders’ people, hoping to get an advantage in case of ties during caucus counts, sent two-headed coins to Nevada Sanders caucusers? Too bad that they don’t use coins to settle ties in Nevada: They cut decks of cards instead.
And I’ll raise you the little stunt when Team Sanders’ national data crew exploited a temporary vulnerability in the DNC server to break in, created over two dozen lists of Hillary voter data, and then sued when the DNC justifiably took away their computer access.
I am not RD but I wonder if pronewerdeal has heard that the primary is over?
I think he has this notion that he can say “straw man” like GOPers say BENGHAZI! and all arguments collapse and the universe tilts on its axis.
Churl, you forgot the extra “A”s. There must be at least 4 “A”s in BENGHAAAAZI! (though you may use more than 4 if you wish). 😉
Your are correct, Mr. Woodpecker. I will address this incorrect behavior the next time I run through the woods naked with my hair on fire yelling “BENGHAAAAAAZI!” at the silver liberal moon.
wow this convention is going to be a sh*t show. Bernie Sanders supporters are shameful. I hope they are thrown out after tonight
Democracy is messy. They earned the right to be vocal. They got a lot of votes.
Let them do what they need to do. Bernie will do what he needs to do. Hillary will do what she needs to do. And maybe by Thursday, we won’t be boogeying to Love Train but we’ll have reached an agreement between allies.
Unity is overrated. Coming to the aid of your friends is more realistic.
Up to a point, but if the Bernie or Busters keep booing speakers, including Civil Rights heroes, they can be escorted outside.
I’m sure they’ll enjoy milling with hoi polloi protesters in 100 degrees F. For about fifteen minutes.
You’re right. There is a limit. Backlash is coming. They can push the envelope too far.
yeah they aren’t screaming and booing for democracy, they’re in it for themselves. People are there telling their stories and all they can do scream is Bernie all day. And that’s why Hillary is our nominee.
The Rude Pundit weighs in on what I want to call the “Trump-Putin Pact”, as in “Nazi-Soviet Pact”.
NSFW!–he doesn’t call himself “The Rude Pundit” for nothing.
Oh you beat me to nasty man. Heading that way. (He writes like I think.)
Why didn’t Bernie start his revolution long ago? You know before we lost our jobs/retirement funds to the housing/financial crash? Why didn’t he run against Obama? He’s been in DC for 25 years and done nothing really. Did he go to Occupy or even send pizzas? Why didn’t he become a Dem long ago? Now the party is supposed to bend over backwards for him and his supporters. He has been telling them will fight to the convention and they think they can change the outcome if they cause enough commotion!
This is not going to end well-either he’s going to hand the election to Trump at worst or ruin his reputation at best.
I have asked the very same questions. He was able to tolerate a lot of inequality for quite a long time.
Still, I’ll take it. Someone has to be the Bernie.
Nina whatshername just said that she expects Bernie supporters to fight “all the way” meaning every single night. I am not convinced that ‘allowing’ (as if they could control it) one night of letting off steam is going to do anything but increase the steam for the remainder of the convention. Where are the screaming Hillary supporters? You don’t know because the only ones being interviewed are BS supporters. Less one lone H supporter who said “enough is enough!” and that they had their say. I think the managers had better rethink how they handle the boo’ers (sp) tomorrow night. What ya bet that E. Warren gets booed a lot tonight, and Bernie too.
wow Michelle Obama, best speech of the night! Not expecting that
Yes, Michelle Obama, I hate to say, did way better than Elizabeth. She sounded as if she meant it. And I hope she did!
They gave two different kinds of speeches for two different reasons. Warren definitely understands the struggling middle and working class.
As for Michelle, I will always think of her as the upper middle class lawyer who gave up her career to be a stay at home mom to two kids who no longer needed full time care. It did nothing for working moms. The signal she sent was she was a traditional First Lady and wasn’t going to get involved in all that manly stuff.
As for what she really did behind the scenes, especially with respect to healthcare reform may come out in time. In the meantime, she wore a mask of perfect serenity in her garden, tending to her children.
The speech was good but I would have liked it more if I didn’t think she was playing a designated role as feminine non-boat rocker.
Hillary’s upcoming White House will be more familiar to me and I can’t wait.
Thanks for telling it like it is, Riverdaughter.
I have never been a fan of Michelle’s but thought she gave a good speech for parents in the audience and it was almost like an expansion of Hillary’s ad on “the children are watching.” I was mainly impressed by her sincerity. I am giving credit, for once, to her for doing what went over well in the group. The award for the night goes to Sara Silverman!! It took a comedian to call out the boo’ers “you are being ridiculous.” She could have added “you are being rude to icons you never heard of.” I was OK on booing Pelosi though! Got my own thing about her. Let’s see how they behave Thursday night.
Yeah, Sara Silverman delivered the best one line speech last night. Perfect.
Great comment! One observation: PUMAS were 40% of 18 million (by concession time). Less later. By the long drawn concession month this time, there were 20% (of 12 million) B or B-ers, 15% more recently. The only ones who are still there are either Libertarians, anarchists, greens etc. The few Ds will come home by November. “I am pissed we lost” is not a good enough cause to stay with it long. As you say, in 2008, it was about counting votes.
P.S. I didn’t know that particular detail about DWS in 2008. You just made me feel better about the whole thing.😎
Yep, DWS did a deal in secret while she was still a chairperson on Hillary’s campaign.
She was the one who told her, along with a couple other Superdelegates, that they were going to dump her ass after the RBC hearings and go with Obama. I think it was just after Hillary won the last of the primaries and Puerto Rico. So, I suspect that Debbie is hanging on because she knows where the bodies are buried and how the DNC was involved in scuttling Hillary in 2008 and he’s afraid she’s going to bad mouth him.
Did you notice that the DNC was trying to paint Bernie’s campaign as a mess? They were going to float that narrative to the media. Now, where have we heard that before??
Yeah, the woman who won almost all of the large Democratic primary states and 18000000 votes ran a shitty campaign. Of all the things that has driven me nuts in the last 8 years that’s the one that really breaks the camel’s back.
She was brilliant. She was stabbed in the back by her party, Obama and her own “loyal” friends.
Sometimes I wonder why I didn’t just remain an independent. Why did I go back? I’m just as pissed for Bernie’s sake, even though there was no change in the electoral outcome like there was at the RBC hearing for Clinton. We deserve better than that.
It’s so great to read riverdaughter’s post and the comments this morning (7/26/2016), with the exception of ProNewerDeal, to see that other people are feeling the same. (I live in very Republican Kane Co. in Illinois and a few weeks ago, someone tore the “Hillary” portion of my “Ready for Hillary” bumper sticker off my car.)
I became a PUMA in 2008 and still consider myself to be a Democrat in exile.
The Sanders supporters have really been obnoxious. I can understand the anger since we felt much the same in 2008.
It truly bothers me the amount of consideration they feel is due to Bernie. He became a Dem only to run for president. Did he campaign for other Dems during his time in office? What did he do to support Democrats?
The blind allegiance of Bernie’s band has not been tested by negative campaigning that would have brought out Bernie’s past as a socialist. The polling that shows Sanders would do better against Trump would not hold up under what Trump would bring out against Bernie.
While I would like the process to be more transparent, it is the Sanders campaign that shows that the superdelegates can act as a break on a candidate that could be a disaster. I voted for the first time in 1972 for G. McGovern, who won only two states against Nixon.
Apparently, he’s going to return to Congress as an I. Color me unsurprised.
We made history! We did it everyone! Hugs to all xx
Xoxoxxxooo!!
Yay!!! It took a long time, but she did it!!
Wooooooooooooooooooooooot!
I was on the bus when the roll call began and grinning from ear to ear.
What a difference. We heard every state. They counted every vote. Bernie people should feel proud of their guy. He fought hard for them, pushed every envelope and got a lot of what he wanted in the platform.
Good for him.
And Hillary deserves mad props for not doing to Bernie what was done to her 8 years ago. She could have made him disappear. But that’s not the way to party unity.
It’s a great day.
I can’t wait until Thursday.
I was in tears when his brother cast his vote for Bernie and spoke about their parents not having a good life and that they would’ve been proud of their son. & as much as some of his supporters can grate my nerves, Bernie is a really good man. And I am grateful he’s been a part of this process and I got to know about him this election cycle
This needs to be played at the convention, if it hasn’t been played already.
Bumper sticker idea: “ANNOY PUTIN–VOTE CLINTON” 😉
Love!
Bill’s speech was spectacular. I have a feeling many, many who heard it had no idea how qualified Hillary is, how much CONSISTENT experience she has. And the parade of people who know Hillary personally was very revealing. Loved the 9/11 survivor, Dean’s scream, Albright’s comments, Streep… it was a great night. No boos, not a vacant seat in the house and pin-drop silence when Bill was talking.
I was in tears during the roll call, and on and off all night. I’m exhausted!
A great post, Riverdaughter! Hillary’s voters in the California primary were overwhelmingly Dems, not newly switched from no preference or the Republican party.
No BS person I’ve spoken to understands that caucuses are not democratic. Cheap because the state has to pay more for real votes. One can game caucuses–for example, give a free “rock concert” in Seattle the day before the caucuses and overrun meetings in the morning. The instructions are easy. Enter en masse, refuse to show papers, intimidate by voice and strength. Only those who are without jobs, can get time off, have no need for childcare, and can stand for hours are there. The delegates selected via Washington State caucuses represented under under 5% of the electorate. The actual mail-in vote in Washington State, handily won by Hillary, doesn’t count in terms of actual delegates.
En route to watch the last half of the second day of the Convention on a big screen TV (having cut the cable cord because of the overwhelming stupidity of cable “news” and “commentary” the purpose of which is to hold my eyes to the next series of endless commercials and drug ads), I heard on NPR that BS announced that he is back to his Party of 1 Independent. Maybe he and the other Senate Independent can form a coalition, if they can reach any common ground.
Thank goodness for CSPAN, even if it is the podium for the gadfly of the Senate during sessions. My tax dollar is well spent if I am able to watch the actual convention without the cut-away to constant chatter. How many times do I need to see Andrea Mitchell display her envy of HRC? Can’t she retire to bake cookies? Listening to Axelrod and others add their nasty commentary diminishes my high after being enthralled by Bill Clinton’s speech. Talking head idiocy. Oh, that we had a responsible Fourth Estate not dominated by the bottom line or propaganda.
I’m watching yesterday’s Convention now on c-span.org–gavel to gavel coverage.
I missed the roll call, thinking it would be later in the day.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?412846-1/hillary-clinton-officially-nominated-democratic-presidential-nominee
“Not a childhood organized sport where everyone gets an award.” Indeed. Maybe the Bernie convention focus is done, now. He got lots of adoration and cheers (SO much more than Hillary did in ’08), but it’s starting to move toward beatification. RD–do you think he will run in ’20?
Agree about caucuses: DNC should get rid of them completely, not try to expand them! And, IMO, should increase outreach to other parties and nonaffiliated voters, but allow only registered Dems to actually vote in the primary–it is a DEM PRIMARY. It’s ludicrous to allow people from outside the party to determine the party nominee. It’s too easy to influence it from the other side. Didn’t DNC learn that this year?
I, too, think we had too many supers, but I am concerned that what happened with the RNC will happen to us next time. I am very concerned about 2020 and 2024, given the changes the rules committee made this year. We seem to be a country ripe for being overrun by an irrational movement.
CSPAN is the best.
I don’t think we need to be too optimistic/worried about primary changes. Similar suggestions were made in 2007, but nothing changed. Also, individual states make the rules.
I heard Bernie in Seattle outside my window despite all the people who went the voter turnout was extremely low. I also did polling in Seattle and most people were for Hillary but for whatever reason weren’t motivated to come out and caucus. I would say the only reason he won it was because of that free rally.
From the NY Times:
Trump Challenges Russia To Find Clinton’s Missing E-Mails
Holy Ascended Madoka, the SOB isn’t even trying to pretend he’s not Putin’s Poodle! 😡
Can you imagine how the Corporate Media would react if a Democratic presidential candidate were this closely associated with a foreign power of dubious friendliness?
I was astonished when I saw the headline on the New York Times. The comments section on the story went from 0-1000 within an hour or two.
Last night, I was checking the Kyiv Post (from Ukraine) on line and they had a link to this story in Politico. It seems to address why the DNC e-mails were hacked
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/clinton-putin-226153
Trump would be a disaster and probably thinks that he can cut a deal with Putin.
My paternal grandfather arrived in 1908 at Ellis Island from Lithuania via Hamburg. So I hate the idea of Trump selling out the Baltics.
You might find this story from the Washington Post interesting as well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-financial-ties-to-russia-and-his-unusual-flattery-of-vladimir-putin/2016/06/17/dbdcaac8-31a6-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html
Most votes ever received in a primary election:
2008 Hillary Clinton (woot!) 17.9 million
2008 Obama 17.6 million
2016 Hillary Clinton 16.8 million
2016 TrumpleDumple 14 million
2016 Sanders 13.2 million
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/was-the-democratic-primary-a-close-call-or-a-landslide/
CREDO Action is hosting a petition to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to withhold classified national security briefings from Donald Trump, because he asked the Russian government to spy on our government.
If you want to go to where you can sign it, click this.
New Trump campaign logo
Joe Cannon’s new header at cannonfire.com.
I was an ardent PUMA in 2008 and have watched this election season with great interest and amazement. I was a PUMA because I thought and still think Hillary got a raw deal back then. A corrupt DNC, lies, election fraud, an activist media and big donors annointed and installed Obama. Similar to the Bernie Sanders supporters I was crushed when HIllary didn’t fight the injustices openly and to the end. In 2016, I can’t believe my fellow PUMAs can’t see the same thing happening here. I am saddened that the zeal to let HIllary “have her turn” erases all she has done in service of the banking industry and other corporate interest. When I think of her role in the destabilization and exploitation of Haiti, Honduras, and the Middle East, I want to cry. When I think how we the people have suffered or failed to flourish because of this war-mongering corporatist, I cannot fathom or share your enthusiasm. I know no amount of logic will sway your stand and we are all allowed to have our own opinion based on our individual worldview. I am disappointed that some PUMAs are more committed to getting Hillary in the White House–rather than riddiing our country of the “money-changers” that have stormed the White House and Capitol Hill to control our government. If there is anything historic about this moment, it is how our we have reached an all time low as to what we ignore bout Hillary’s track record and the ongoing assaults on the democratic process/ It was wrong in 2008 and it is wrong now. We are running out of historic icons to gloss over many unpleasant truths.
I’ll let Miss Ayumu “Osaka” Kasuga speak for me.
I recall a story about FDR informing a youngster that he had to deal with corruption (I think he was referring to Tamney (sp?) Hall) and take their money because, before he could make any changes, HE HAD TO GET ELECTED. At this point, I’d insert Tbogg’s ode to Purity Ponies, but I’m already worn out.
I worked in a corporate lab for 23 years and would choose it over some cash strapped stressed out insecure startup in a heartbeat. When I started in pharma R&D, our goal was not to make money at all costs. That was the financiers who wanted that. The corporate environment is where research thrives with few barriers to collaboration.
Then there is the problem of shareholders vs stakeholders which many on the left fail to differentiate.
I’m sorry, I simply do not agree that complex issues like economic policy or foreign policy can be boiled down into very simplistic words.
That’s what the right does to short circuit the thinking process and enrage the listener. It can make rational thought impossible.
There is never going to be a socialist utopia with nationalized everything in this country. We can go partway to that goal. But it ain’t never going to happen in this America.
I also didn’t want to live in the New World if the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Their idea of the ideal was never mine and I resented having it shoved down my throat with hysterical fear tactics.
You go do what you need to do. Your vote is your vote. Vote for Jill stein or Mickey Mouse or whoever you want. And I’m not going to try to stampede you into voting for Hillary because the alternative is so much worse. But I will say that if you don’t currently understand that Donald Trump is a completely different animal than a regular GOP candidate, then there is probably nothing else we are likely to agree on. You apparently are way higher on the pyramid of needs than I am. Enjoy it up there while you can.
I realize that to call all corporations evil is not fair or accurate. As a researcher, I had a far less positive experience in terms of corporate contribution to the public good than you. However, I know that there are actually decent people running certain enterprises. But few could deny that corporate control of our politicians and government is a bad thing for average people. Donald Trump is a clown placed in the arena to provoke and distract from a candidate who, this week, showed her true colors as never before. The hiring of Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the treatment of Sanders and his delegates, the media blackout of the protesters, etc. …all so reminiscent of 2008 and in many ways worse. If we keep overlooking blatant abuses of power and influence that over-rides public participation and suppresses voter’s voice…then we are headed towards Fascism. It doesn’t matter if Hillary brings it under the guise of her faux narrative or Trump with his unpredictable nonsense. We are not in a good place as a country, either way. You are right, our votes are ours to cast. But expecting fairness and accountability in our democratic process is not pie in the sky. Working for it is our responsibility. We have corruption because we allow it. A lesson was learned this week in Philadelphia and last week in Cleveland. It is time for the people to take this country back from both parties. Many will work hard to do so, but do not blame a probable Trump victory on them. A corrupt DNC installed the candidate least likely to beat Trump to begin with and Hillary sealed the deal this past few weeks with her arrogance and disrespect. Riverdaughter, I am not asking for a socialist revolution, but Hillary has become a latter day Richard Nixon on steroids. You may be Ok with that. I and many others can’t buy it. I was a true Democrat in 2008 and I am today. I will always respect what you and others did to make things right then. It was revolutionary, it was necessary. It is what others will attempt in 2016. Regards.
Yeah, I’m not buying this line of thought but if it makes you happy to compare Hillary to Nixon, don’t let me stop you. It’s unlikely that anything I say is going to make a difference. She doesn’t need me to defend her and I simply refuse to jump on the purity wagon.
It’s your vote. Do what you want with it.
Most of the Obama 2008 people I know are Hillary 2016 people now.