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Sitting at Obama’s table: The Secret Health Care Talks

New York Times

New York Times

Does anyone else want to burst into tears when they read about millionaires trying to make health care affordable?

Health Care Industry in Talks to Shape Policy

Since last fall, many of the leading figures in the nation’s long-running health care debate have been meeting secretly in a Senate hearing room. Now, with the blessing of the Senate’s leading proponent of universal health insurance, Edward M. Kennedy, they appear to be inching toward a consensus that could reshape the debate.

(snip)

While not all industry groups are in complete agreement, there is enough of a consensus, according to people who have attended the meetings, that they have begun to tackle the next steps: how to enforce the requirement for everyone to have health insurance; how to make insurance affordable to the uninsured; and whether to require employers to help buy coverage for their employees.

(snip)

Kennedy aides summarized discussions of the stakeholders, known as the “workhorse group,” in a recent memorandum obtained by The New York Times.

“While there was some diversity of views,” it said, “the sense of the room is that an individual obligation to purchase insurance should be part of reform if that obligation is coupled with effective mechanisms to make coverage meaningful and affordable.”

The ideas discussed include a proposal to penalize people who fail to comply with the “individual obligation” to have insurance.

(snip)

Their motives vary. Some say the moment to overhaul the health care system has arrived because of a confluence of events, including Mr. Obama’s election, the growing number of uninsured and the relentless increase in health costs. Some want to protect the interests of their members and could ultimately oppose the legislation, depending on its details.

(sigh)

Not once in the article is there a definition of “affordable” — which makes me doubly (if possible) skeptical of the eventual plan. But, then lets look at who’s doing the talking:

The 20 people who regularly attend the meetings on Capitol Hill include lobbyists for AARP, Aetna, the A.F.L.-C.I.O., the American Cancer Society, the American Medical Association, America’s Health Insurance Plans, the Business Roundtable, Easter Seals, the National Federation of Independent Business, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, and the United States Chamber of Commerce.

I remember Obama saying that EVERYONE would have a seat at his table — but where is someone from PNHP or the California Nurses or anyone supporting HR676 (Medicare for Everyone)? Is there a single uninsured person there?  Someone who’s under-insured?  Someone spending more on health insurance than they are on their mortgage? Looking closely at that list, it’s looking like the millionaires are discussing Health Care as a way to bail out the insurance industry.

Now this is all on super-secret-background:

A business lobbyist involved in the talks said: “The lack of acrimony, the air of cooperation toward a common end, is quite refreshing. If the Republicans were a party to these intense discussions, that would ease the path to enacting health care reform.”

This lobbyist, like most other participants, spoke on the condition of anonymity, saying that Senate aides had threatened to expel anyone who divulged details of the work group.

So that might be why the details are so sketchy but, this bit sounds more like the punchline to a joke than an actual policy plan:

Many insurance executives say they are willing to accept stricter regulation, including a requirement to offer coverage to people with pre-existing medical conditions, if the federal government requires everyone to have coverage.

Are we REALLY supposed to be impressed the the Insurance Executives are willing to sell us the coverage we will be required by law to purchase?

How generous.

(Hey, it just occured to me that if we really were Republicans, they might welcome us at that table!)

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88 Responses

  1. There…now I can sleep better. With all the wonderful minds looking over us…what..me worry?

  2. Unbelieveable. During the primaries, Obama claimed that debates about big issues like health care and social security would be public and even televised. At least the AARP is in on the discussions, but they won’t be able to make a difference in the end. Bush rolled right over them on the Medicare prescription ripoff, and they ended up conditionally endorsing it when they should have fought to the bitter end.

    Thanks for this important post, Katiebird. I hadn’t heard anything about these meetings.

    • BB, AARP sells all sorts of insurance — they are an industry. Not advocates for us.

      We don’t HAVE any advocates — at least not in the Senate. I wonder what Conyers or Kuchinich think of these meetings?

  3. katiebird, this is worrisome. Secrecy seems to be leftover from Bush/Cheney and continuing. In one sense, I’m glad they’re afraid of us – or is it simply sunshine they fear?

  4. From what I’m reading, the insurance companies are willing to accept regulations as long as everyone is required to have coverage, BECAUSE the federal government (think our taxes) will subsidize the insurance companies in covering those who can’t afford it.

    That’s not universal healthcare.

    That’s the insurance companies getting locked in for subsidies , with no transparency about how bare-boned that “basic” policy will be.

    Interestingly, one of the “carrots” to appeal to Americans is allowing people over 55 to buy into Medicare. Gotta give that more thought before I comment, although we ALL know the devil is in the details and the fine print.

    • Currently I have a low cost health insurance plan. Those subsidizing it are the medical establishment. Of course, the loss is passed on to everyone else in higher prices. We really need something comprehensive – that includes some control of the costs of medical care.

    • Mary, did it say straight out that people 55 and older could buy into medicare? I missed that. Also, Medicare leaves a heck of a lot out — dental plans for one example.

  5. They should call the plan BOHICA

    Barack Obama’s Health Insurance Companies of America

    • (Laughing and nodding)

      And the Reporter flat-out-lied:

      The proposal for an individual mandate was one of the few policy disagreements between Mr. Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton in their fight for the Democratic presidential nomination. She wanted to require everyone to have and maintain insurance..

      She did NOT want to require that everyone buy health insurance — she DID want to require that everyone have access to health care

      Fvckers.

      • Are you sure about that? I thought she wanted both. Obama didn’t want to require people to buy into a plan. Thus, it wouldn’t be universal.

        http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/theyve_got_you_covered.html

        • Yes I’m sure. At one time I practically had her plan memorized.

          Her plan included a “medicare for everyone” – government administered option — Which would have taken ME out of the Insurance pool in a flash.

          She is also the ONLY person I’ve ever known who said straight out that she didn’t see how people earning 25,000 could pay 25% of their income (or more) for health care.

          She would have put a cape on Health Care spending at 4% or 5%

      • Yes! Because health INSURANCE is damn well not the same thing as health CARE. I leave it to Angie to inform us of the percentage of bankruptcies that are filed by INSURED people because of huge, not-covered medical bills…

  6. Where is the ANA , and why are they not at the table ?? They endorsed partly Hillary Clinton on the basis of her health care plan .
    Being an organisation that consists largely women , I guess they don’t really figure into the equation.
    And why is Ted Kennedy in such a hurry to steal Hillarys agenda … he failed miserably to take her senate seat by proxy . I am weary of these egos posing as humanitarians .

  7. oops that should read .. They endorsed Hillary parlly on the basis etc

    • It can’t be a coincidence that the leaked membership list contains only those with a vested interest in maintaining the insurance industries position in our health care.

      And it’s looking less like a coincidence that the “universal health care” adopted by Sen. Kennedy’s own state is the legal requirement that people purchase health insurance.

      • Absolutely Katie , I read the AMA position on universal health care during the campaign , and you can bet universal health care costs wont involve reducing fees to the MDs

        and btw thank you for this post …

      • Rumor has it that MA will scrap it’s “failed” health insurance plan, saving the state billions according to analysts.
        It really is a disaster.
        Many MA residents choose to remain uninsured and instead pay a penalty with their state tax returns because the insurance options are just not affordable.

        Penalties can be appealed but the red tape is ugly from what I’ve seen.

  8. If only a PUMA could be included in the discussions. I know that the bill would be much better if RD, Murphy, or Gary was in on formulating the details. They don’t take bull from anyone. Of course if myiq were in on the negotiations, we would have organ transplant insurance.

    • We’re having a inventory clearance sale this week – 50% off everything in stock

    • I appreciate your vote of confidence, but I have very little experience with the whole health care system until very recently. Luckily my employer provides health insurance, but I am becoming more and more skeptical of not only the insurance companies, but the doctors themselves. My recent diagnosis of a chronic illness–diabetes— has me questioning whether they have my best interest and the best way to maintain my health in mind, or whether they are thinking of the bottom line. The doctor has had me come in for, what seems to me, pointless appointments where we discuss the same things (half the time he can’t remember who I am or what we talked about the last time) over and over. I only pay a $30 dollar copay for these visits, by the Dr. is charging 300 for each one. I’m even starting to question the competency of the doctor as well. Shouldn’t a man with an MD be able to do simple percentages, like what is 8% of 200? He couldn’t, and when I offered him the answer, he told me I was wrong…sigh…..anyway I even feel like they lowered the threshold for the diagnosis so that they could get me hooked on all kinds of fancy drugs, when really if I just took better care of myself I could probably manage it that way (which is what I am planning on doing regardless of what they tell me). I wonder about the incentive for my insurer (blue cross/blue shield) to continue my coverage because I had been insured less than a year when I was diagnosed. I was sure they were going to kick me out of the plan. I imagine there is some kind of kickback going on, because now they encourage me to see the doctor, send me offers for free blood meters, etc. They must be benefiting somehow. Anyway, sorry about the whole rant, I just don’t trust any of them. And like I said, the worst part is that I don’t even trust the DOCTOR (and I go to the Dr at UNC Healthcare, which is supposedly the best around here) who could very well hold my life in his hands…..very depressing.

      • {{Gary}}

        I’ve found that when it comes to Diabetes the Doctors and Nurses REALLY talk down to me. It’s totally insulting. One nurse asked me what my LDL cholesterol is and when I told her she said I was wrong!! How in the world could she say that — I’m the one with the documents.

        I’m pretty sure they give us the meters for free because the “strips” cost a fortune. When I was first diagnosed the strips weren’t covered by insurance and it was a fortune every month!

        • the real kicker is that they had me seeing a “nutrtionist” who told me…surprise surprise….I needed to cut back on sugars and carbs, and she’s charginb 200 dollars a pop. they wanted me to see her every couple of months, but even on my copay there was no way I was going to throw money away on that. I went twice, and both times, the doctor came in to see me at the end of the visit, and when I got the statement from the ins. co., he had actually charged those as an office visit. I think the Doctors (in my experience) are every bit as greedy and a part of this mess as the insurance companies. The worst of it is that it is so assembly line to them, he never even remembers who I am. I’m just a big dollar sign to him.

          • Nutritionists — I SPIT on nutritionists. What a scam profession.

            The nutritionist I talked to weighed at least 250 pounds (a not very tall woman) and had trays of the boxes of prepared food and told me how to read the labels. (giggling).

            What a nut-job!

            (after hearing that I’m the oldest of 8 kids, she spent most of the visit blasting — totally blasting large families and the kids who live in them). Wanker.

          • katiebird I can’t reply to you post directly – but that nutritionist sounds so mental. !

          • I guess we hit the limit, perries —

            She was. It actually scared me [it didn’t surprise me (except coming from a professional in a session that was costing me A LOT of money – $200) — I always knew how our neighbors thought of our family]

          • Gary, Believe me, internal medicine doctors are going broke. They’re lucky to be taking home $70,000 these days and are seeing twice the number of patients to do so.

          • Katiebird: I’ll see you an overweight nutritionist and raise you a nutritionist with an admitted eating disorder who spent our sessions (I was trying to lose baby weight) alternately empathizing about my old eating disorder and trilling, “I have such a hard time GAINING weight!” Aargh.

      • A few years ago I had pain in my sternum. The doctors put me through every kind of test under the sun, many of which were invasive, not to mention expensive. I was miserable, in pain and still without a diagnosis. The last doctor put me in hospital for 9 days on morphine while he conducted more tests and eventually decided on exploratory surgery!!!
        That was it. I signed myself out and went home, still in pain and suffering from morphine withdrawal.
        Finally, I went to see my gyno. Lo and behold ,he diagnosed my problem in 5 min. and sent me to a pulmonary specialist for confirmation. It was costchondritis (inflamation of cartilage where ribs join the breastbone) which cleared up with a short course of steroids.
        Lots of people made money off of my illness-relying on the latest tests as opposed to a differential diagnosis (which requires thinking).
        Conclusion-It’s called the”practice of medicine” because they are still practicing.

  9. The ideas discussed include a proposal to penalize people who fail to comply with the “individual obligation” to have insurance.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    let’s just see how much americans will allow such abusive language, “penalize” what are they gonna do?
    How will this penalization look, will it be monetary?
    I do find it rather sad that some state’s only ever way of looking at anything when it comes to solving problems is raise the state taxes on this or that. What good does it do for the federal government promises to lower taxes when the states are increasing taxes?
    Tea Party indeed is what this country needs. Taxation by representation…while mankind brags about it’s phenomonal progressive furturistic inventions and growing at the speed of light…..the days of yore had common sense, today YORE OWN YOUR OWN, im sick of government everything, government cant solve all the problems,t hey are the problem, i know i know who said it, but damnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

    • exactly carolflowery. Combined with all the scolding and finger wagging and ‘americans can’t go on like they do’ and ‘penalizing’ – I am fed up with being told everything is wrong about me and everybody I know, and everybody I see on the street and everything about every American. BS! In therapatized land we call that ‘making wrong’ – somebody attempts to ‘make’ you wrong so that you have to make it all up to them by – letting them have their way without opposition.

      • Christopher Titus says dysfunctional people are the majority – aka the “normal” ones.

  10. Katie, I think the over-55 buy-in for Medicare was in the NYTimes article, but it was described as a “possibility,” not necessarily a done deal.

    I would, however, like to remind everyone on the board—-cuz I watched O’s words like a hawk—he NEVER promised everyone healthcare. He promised everyone ACCESS to “affordable health insurance.”

    Even Krugman was adamant about Hillary’s healthcare plan being much more beneficial to the actual human being involved, and not to the insurance companies.

    Transparency, my a**.

    We been okey-doked and bamboozled.

    • But, Mary — he did promise that everyone would have a seat at his table. I guess the trick is that this is technically Kennedy’s table…..

      On Medicare the article is painfully vague:

      Members of the group generally agree that “eligibility levels for Medicaid should be increased,” the memorandum says, so that more people would qualify.

      • Of course that is the ‘trick” that it is Kennedys table…

        I wonder what the plan has to say about the acute shortage of nurses

        …The Nursing Shortage
        Nursing is one of the largest health care professions with an estimated 2.9 million licensed RNs in the United States.1Nurses work in a variety of settings, including public health, long-term care, andhospitals. Advanced practice nurses (nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and certified registered nurse anesthetists) practice in numerous settings, including primary care,hospitals, and surgical care facilities. Approximately three out of five jobs are in hospitals.2A federal report published in 2004 estimates that by 2020 the national nurse shortage will increase to more than 1 million full-time nurse positions. According to these projections, which are based on the cur-rent rate of nurses entering the profession, only 64 percent of projected demand will be met

        • Haven’t we had a nursing shortage for several decades now?

          • Yes, myiq. For several decades, my organization had ongoing meetings about how to solve the nursing shortage, periodically about how to solve the primary care physician shortage, and more or less continuous studies on access to health care and affordable health insurance. Lots of work, lots of facts, lots of problem identification and suggested solutions — but we are where we are now. And the crises seem to be worse than ever.

      • Ok, sorry to be gone so long—I went wandering around the websites I’d covered before coming to TC, and can’t find the article I know I read first thing this morning. Maybe it’s alzheimer’s. LOL

        But I agree with all……this planning behind closed doors is directly opposite to what Obama promised. It’ll be a “done deal” when finally presented, and anyone who poses an amendment or improvement will be demonized by Mr. Gibbs.

        These will be government subsidies, paid directly to the insurance company with the policy, for those who can’t afford what they’re being required to buy.

        Anyone wanna make a bet on whether Congress will perform ANY oversight about which procedures might be denied by that insurance company?

        Fine print. Fine print. Fine print.

  11. Remembere when JFK made that challenge about man walking on the moon or at least landing on it?
    Why doesnt our leaders that be, put out a challenge.
    The State, (not the fed gov) that comes up with and actually develops a Health Program that works for all
    with the least abuse on the tax payers will be rewarded some kind of incintive. Maybe if we start trying to make progress one state at a time, instead of all for one all the time, we will be much more creative and focused on the long term goal. That way the people take a part in the actual implementing and we have a chance to see what works in different areas and what does not. Yes, I know each state is different, but the basics are there health and cost….we need some role models, some hands on “hey, this actually worked” examples.

    • Carol , What a great idea !!!
      How ever .. JFK was an actual LEADER , unlike the current bozo in office , who cannot do anything but read teleprompter badly and get out of the white house to smoke ( I am just guessing on that one but will take bets ), and lie to the American public .
      And i think his agenda is not to actually help people but something else entirely .
      Love and HUGS

  12. Over here, even people who have not paid any contributions have the same right as anyone else to health care-it depends on residence.
    (But illegal immigrants have a right to hospital treatment too.)

  13. Where are the Women? Where are the Poor? Where are the GLBT people? Where are the Sick? OK, AARP has an in with the insurance companies, the American Cancer Society has an in with the NIH, everybody has an in. Where are the outies?

  14. Menawhile Obama says he will reduce the annual deficit by 50% by the end of his first term.

  15. It’s basically a rip off that having to have dental insurance and health insurance…when we know dental problems can create all kinds of health problems…our teeth are part of our bodies, i mean really just like toenails and fingernails huh?

    All I know is , I refuse to pay for Nancy Pelosi’s next botox treatment if it’s coverned in her insurance plan.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

  16. OT, but this makes me want to vomit..

    …Call it recession, 90210 style….

    … “Doctors, lawyers, accountants,” he said. “I recently had a hedge-fund manager in here getting a large loan on his collection of diamonds.”

    Nearby, boutique owner Parvin Yonani said she’s slashed prices by as much as 85 percent. She says tourists are staying home and Beverly Hills residents are holding on to their money.

    She cut the price on a pair of shoes from $1,800 to $245…

    … “The wealthy still have money,” he said. “We’re still seeing people coming in, spending money on new homes, redoing their homes, buying new jewelry and statement pieces.

    “It’s just not happening as much as it was last year.”

    poor babies. They have to settle for $200 dollar shoes instead of 1800. But see, they’re hurting, we can’t raise their taxes. Disgusting.

    • It’s all part of the same story, Gary — Money problems hurt the rich much more than they hurt us (I hear this from people in my own family too) — They can’t be expected to live like us, their expectations are too high.

    • shouldn’t they be spending their money to help stimulate the economy?

      • I think it was Dakinikat who pointed out a while ago, that during the Great Depression, a lot of the rich still had money-they just weren’t spending it.

  17. I doubt Obama is aware of the details of what this group is doing. He has delegated the whole thing and Kennedy is in charge. Obama will do what he is told as long as the “health plan policy” which he has delegated will be sellable to the MSM. The MSM will get behind it, tell everyone it is necessary, and call detractors rac&sts. The dummies who voted for Obama won’t look at the details because they support Obama no matter what he does, and we will get screwed.

    There are a lot of ways this can be enforced, and it could be a way for employers to dump their healthplans and force us into the gov’ts health plan.

    I think its becoming very clear that Obama’s Admin wiil do more damage than can be corrected. I think the article posted yesterday is right. The Dems plan to stay in power permanently and they are going to squeeze us until we are locked down.

    • Good grief, NH. I just had visual flash of Clyburn and JJ Jr and Sharpton all over the TV trashing anybody against the plan as denying the rights of African Americans and minorities.

      But you’re right: that’s how it’ll go down, as soon as Obama’s hand-picked “group” (with lobbyists, notice) presents their fait-accompli they crafted behind closed doors.

      Would Clyburn call that an OKEY-DOKE?

  18. Remember when Obama ripped Hillary that she tried health care reform and had her meetings in secret. Not like Obama.

    • YEP.

      And I remember when the Obama campaign staff virtually condemned Paul Krugman as “not one of us” when he carefully analyzed and compared Obama’s “plan” with Hillary’s plan, and then endorsed Hillary’s plan as the better one.

      I’m convinced that’s why Krugman isn’t part of the Obama economic team. He dared to criticize the mighty O’s facts.

  19. katiebird….all that was missing was a industrial lobbist saying “let them eat cake!”

    bunch of crap….

  20. Here are the forms MA residents (or their tax preparers, namely ME) are required to fill out re health
    care.

    http://www.mass.gov/Ador/docs/dor/health%20care/drafts/HC_instr.pdf

    My clients are angry and frustrated. Many have spent
    hours on hold with insurance companies trying to get ID numbers required by MA
    If any info is omitted the entire tax return will be rejected.
    Health insurance companies have failed to mail tax info to their subscribers as required by law.

    Note the federal poverty tables. When was the last time they were adjusted?

    They should have consulted Hillary before implementing this disaster.

  21. How did all the early comments end up at the bottom of the thread?

  22. check out this article (and sorry, it’s from the NY Post) from September 6, 2007:

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/09062007/news/nationalnews/obama__clinton_health_plan_was.htm

    an excerpt:

    In a stunning putdown of the front-running Hillary Rodham Clinton, Obama vowed to have an “open process” for crafting a universal health-care plan and rapped the former first lady’s failed 1993 effort as a secretive attempt that shut out the American public. “We will convene an open process which the American people will be watching,” Obama said at a coffee sitdown in Iowa.

    • OBAMA: CLINTON HEALTH PLAN WAS POISON

      The Dems obviously were not interested in UHC-not that time round and not this time round.

  23. Why does any of this come as a surprise? He is in the back pocket of the special interests. They are the reason why he is where he is. Bush/Cheney showed their contempt by meeting and greeting the big oil and energy people in secret. It worked for them, this will work for Obama.

    Real reform was never the issue. When Hillary offered solutions based on what she had learned from the 90’s debacle they outshouted her. We now have a president, who to my limited way of thinking, is nothing more than a figurehead. His knowledge on the issues of the day is limited and I seriously question whether he has any interest beyond his own aggrandizement.

    When the fox is writing the rules of the henhouse you know in your hearts you are about to get plucked.

    • Hi Pat!

      The composition of the group and the level of secrecy is a surprise to me. It’s (still) astonishing to me that Democrats could shut out working-class people and their interests to this degree.

  24. I am beginning to dislike this format.

  25. somebody reversed the order so that the newest comment shows first.

    • RD decided to try it this way. I have to admit, I’m starting to wish we could go back to the unthreaded comments. I do like being able to reply directly to someone, but it’s hard to follow the overall discussion this way.

  26. I can’t post a comment without my browser crashing. Is anyone else having that problem. I have to reopen the site after every comment I post.

  27. this format is so confusing to fuzzybear but I will try to adjust to the “Change” Because I “Hope” i can adapt to it!

    See Obama I bet forced this on wordpress to make our threads hard to follow….

    Kiki Remember next sat you me your daughter hope she is feeling better and P-house!

  28. fuzzy is so lost…if this is a great experiment I dont know….

  29. what happened now the newest post are at the top of the thread….

    I swear this a plot by MyDD and Daily Kopout and the moldy cheeto to get Fuzzy off the blog!

  30. I swear I did not do anything to reverse the thread posting….

    Fuzzy feels lost…..

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