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Thursday: Is The Confluence a liberal blog?

Duh!  Have you read our Credo?

Yes, we are a liberal blog.

But, but, but, some of you voted for John McCain and Sarah Palin.

Believe me, that was not an easy decision for some of us.  Some of us cried afterwards.  But we made it clear that we didn’t vote for them because we are closet Republicans.  In fact, we disagreed with just about everything they stood for, although, we think they were much more serious about dealing with the bailout bill as it was happening.

Ours were protest votes.  We were protesting the un-Democratic manner in which Barack Obama was selected as our party’s nominee.  You didn’t really think we would be stupid enough to reward that outrage of unfairness and cheating, did you?  How Republican would that have been?  It would mean that our primary season is meaningless.  It would mean that hooliganism and stacking the deck and cherry picking is OK.  It would reduce voting to a pointless exercise. We predict that that will come back to haunt the party in four years.

I think it is time for Obama Democrats to come to terms with this.  Actually, Democrats have a very Jewish attitude about doing something wrong.  Many of them will feel guilty for the next four years.  You Obamaphiles who are reading this have spent half a year rationalizing and denying the truth to yourselves.  You *know* that what went on in the primaries that cost Hillary the nomination was wrong.  You used every nasty Republican generated meme against Hillary even though you knew they were false.  You know in your hearts that it is wrong to discriminate against the gay community.  You know that the sexism that brought Hillary down was a sin against everything you believed.  But the bloodlust was singing in your ears and you were so determined to win at all costs that you allowed yourselves to get swept up in the moment.  You bought into the false narrative that Barack Obama was the savior that would sweep generations of segregation and narrow minded behavior into the dustbin of history.

Then he turned around and invited Rick Warren to his inauguration.

See, a real liberal would never do such a thing.

I’ve spend more than a decade running from the label “liberal”.  I’ve tried on “progressive” and “moderate” and “centrist”.  I prefer to say that I am a Rational Democrat.  And for most of us rationalists, that means we are liberals.  We believe in the equality of all people regardless of race, gender, religion, national origin or sexual orientation.  We believe in social justice, that even if you aren’t born with a silver spoon in your mouth that you deserve the same opportunities as those who were.  We believe in justice for all, not just for the moneyed few.  We believe that people should be able to lift themselves up by their own bootstraps and that means giving them boots. We believe in fiscal responsibility.  We believe in deficit spending when it serves the purpose of building new infrastructure.  We believe in paying our taxes.  We believe in privacy.  We believe that a woman’s body is her own.  We believe in sustainability and a healthy planet.  We believe that we already have all the strength we need to rule the world but what we need is diplomacy so that we don’t ever have to use it.

In none of our beliefs is there a single issue mentality.  We do not advocate for one group over another or one cause over another.  We live by the preamble of the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Union. Common. General Welfare.  Blessings of Liberty.  Justice.  It doesn’t get any more liberal than that.

So, you Obamaphiles out there who are objecting to our inclusion as a nominee for Best Liberal Blog for the 2008 Weblog Awards have to ask yourselves, are you liberal?  The Blessings of Liberty mean suffrage and choice.  We, as liberals, would never prevent you from choosing to vote for any of the other blogs on the list just as we would never prevent, intimidate, harrass, mislead or threaten delegates at the 2008 Democratic Convention from voting for the candidate of their constituents’ choice.

That’s liberal and we are proud to count ourselves as liberals.

227 Responses

  1. let me get this RD there are actually people out there saying we are not a liberal blog…I guest it realy is “The Year of Orwellian Logic”-

    Obamabots you new motto is:

    Ignorance is Strength!

    I got two more for you but you will have to earn them

    you are now working on:

    Freedom is Slavery

    good luck bet you will have earned them by Jan 20th!

  2. Darn right! I’ve always been proud to be a liberal.

    I wish I could be surprised at the idiotic pettiness of the Obama *ssh0les who are complaining about our blog designation.

    Golly gee, I thought we were so small and insignificant, Obamabots. Why don’t you go jack off to your cardboard cutout of Barack and leave us the f*ck alone?

  3. In none of our beliefs is there a single issue mentality. We do not advocate for one group over another or one cause over another. We live by the preamble of the Constitution:

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our , do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

     

    I totally agree, Riverdaughter. And what I don’t understand is how, “promote the general Welfare” can possibly exclude Universal Healthcare. Is there anything more basic to our “general Welfare” than your health?

  4. Riverdaughter once again sums up who we are and where we stand. Of course they read this blog. How else to account for nearly 5 million hits in less than 12 months? What they see, and what they envy, is the cohesion that unites us as posters and bloggers: the truth wins out each time. We may argue amongst ourselves on occasion but the core element of our existence is never forgotten.

    Our uniqueness is in our diversity. Men, women, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, gay, straight, whatever, old, young, in between, rich, poor, every employable industry is represented along with believers and non believers. We have managed to present our views and educate one another on a daily basis since this blog was formed. The Front Pagers are the most intelligent and succinct representatives of the liberal status we maintain. Arguments are framed and comments welcomed.

    To have achieved the recognition that the Confluence has invited speaks volumes. Liberal? Hell yes! We wear that label proudly and effectively. Speaking truth to power still exists.

    I am a liberal. I always have been. I expect to remain one as long as I draw breath. Proud? You betcha!!

    We, for as long at it holds, maintain the principles of democracy for everyone. It is our legacy to future PUMAs and the strength of upholding ideals.

    Bravo, rd! You speak for us all.

  5. I like to call myself a moderate because my views don’t match everything within either Democrat or Republican platform. There are a variety of liberal views, just as there are a variety of conservative views. Neither party shares all my views. I have voted Democrat for governor and Republican for president because I truly believed in the candidates. However, as a result of this election, I think our country needs a new liberal party to attain power. The Democratic party in this past election hints at facism, which both parties had fought against during the past 100 years.

    I love the idea of the PUMAs becoming the new liberal/political party that can replace the Democrats. I have researched the three largest 3rd parties, and I believe the PUMAs are the most promising to become a new party and actually achieve power/gain significant offices. They are relavent to current issues, and not just one issue but a variety of issues. You have gained a significant following in your short time. I truly believe the PUMAs can become a rival force in the political world as a new political party, and I hope to participate in a new party in 2009.

  6. Given that the objectors voted for a neocon who wants to step up the war in Afghanistan (and maybe invade Pakistan while he’s at it); wants to hang onto Bush’s authorization of warrantless domestic spying and telecom immunity; has no problem with Blackwater; wavers notably on women’s reproductive freedom; allows his voice and image to be used to deprive LGBT’s of basic civil rights; has declined to repeal Bush’s tax cuts; has pursued misogyny as a deliberate policy in his campaign and shows every indication of being just another corrupt Chicago thug–excuse me? They object on what grounds?

  7. They object on grounds of racism.

  8. Oh, what are they whining about NOW? What a bunch of “I want it!” crybabies.

  9. okasha skatski: Well put! They object because they know we are right to question and challenge and deep down they know they signed on to some dopey “hopey, changey” mantra that had no depth.

    It made them feel good to back a minority while overlooking the glaring deficiencies he brought forth. That stance equaled a parent who refuses to discipline a misbehaving child. Excuses were made to enforce that precarious support and those of us who refused to climb onboard were castigated and demeaned.

    To now have this site signaled out for an award only undermines their denigration of those who refused to give in. It must “sting”.

  10. Karen – No, they don’t. They object that we supported McCain and Palin.

    Which TC, as a blog, did not.

  11. Most of us Dems voted McCain/Palin in protest. This was something new to the party who expected “unity” no matter what or who the candidate was or offered. This is what set us apart. We never gave in.

  12. “To now have this site signaled out for an award only undermines their denigration of those who refused to give in. It must “sting”.”

    Da truf–it burnz.

  13. By the way, I have always hated Obama’s foreign policies.

    Policy 1 (before he changed it anyway); he wanted immediate withdrawal from Iraq. This was quite a while ago, and he has since changed his mind as he often does, but when I first heard of it, I thought “Immediate withdrawal? Our country broke Iraq, and it is our country’s responsibility to fix it.”

    Policy 2: He called the Isreali invasion of Lebanon “Israel’s right to self-defense.” Forget the tens of thousands of Lebanonese forced into refugee camps.

  14. Here, here RD – I stand firmly with you and am proud to be a PUMA. We will find our way in this morass. And the heck with that rable rousing crowd. We will continue to move forward

    Oh, and Madamab – once again you have such a way with words! And so in agreement I say: “what she said” 🙄

  15. PJ said It made them feel good to back a minority… That’s what his selection was all about -they forgot that the candidate should have at least some substance – what a bunch of goof balls – did they think people would overlook his lack of credentials for the job?

  16. As much as I despise Bush and Reagan, you can at least credit them for standing for something, no matter how nefarious or precarious those stands were and are. But Obama stands only for Obama. He lacks vision and core principles. It is all about him.

    Kind of difficult to sink your teeth into a defense based on those grounds. And what is that defense? He thinks he is “wonderful” so you must as well? Somewhere there must be a philosophy professor grinding his back teeth with that argument.

  17. *Voter suppression, intimidation & fraud
    *FISA
    *Public financing
    *Homophobia
    *Misogyny
    *Transparency
    *Separation of church and state
    *A free & objective press

    You see, these are just a few of the issues for which REAL LIBERALS are willing to take a stand–and that includes preventing a poseur from getting into office by voting for the opponent if necessary. In your zeal to follow like propaganda intoxicated sheep, you ignored and/or trampled on all of these fundamentally democratic principles, by supporting a snake oil salesman, willing to pander to whatever audience he needs at the moment. You were played–get over it.

    Two conservative acquaintances of mine just told me over the holiday that they are THRILLED with the new, centrist right Obama. They especially liked his choice of Warren for the Invocation. Now, they are the ones who do not see that they are being used, because he is giving THEM what they want. Gullible fools. Don’t bother with your aggressive self-righteousness, we are immune to your tantrums now.

  18. look the frost is on the pumkin for the obats they are waking up to the fact Obama has lied to them:

    1) Obama H@tes da G@YS(you mean I didnt tell you this way back)

    2) Obama H@teswomen who do not know their place(barefoot and Preggers)

    3) Obama H@tes universal healthcare(sick go to an emergency room)

    4)Obama H@tes the Middle East(it will spoil my mello)

    5) Obama H@tes Hillary Clinton

    6) Obama H@tes work ( what I cant vote present on every bill congress presents to me?)

    7) Obama H@tes poor people(can you believe the price of arugula)

    8) Obama H@tes change (of course I am keeping SecDef Gates-stay the course)

    9) Obama H@tes mother earth (Sec Interior Salazar-you show them what drill baby drill really means)

    10) Obama H@tes dissent(I thing Stalin Mao Hitler and Sadam were right-call them all R@cists)

    Yeah this guy is so liberal….Pat get me my vomit bucket!

  19. I finally managed to add a comment to yours over there, madamab. They certainly don’t make it easy. After I finally got registered and wrote my comment, I got a message saying my comment was rejected. But it’s there anyway….

  20. Karen: have-it-both-ways-Barack has also been quite pro-Palestinian at times. He was endorsed by Hamas.

  21. Most of us Dems voted McCain/Palin in protest. This was something new to the party who expected “unity” no matter what or who the candidate was or offered. This is what set us apart. We never gave in.

    Pat: it’s ironic that they are upset because we refused to give in to extortion in the name of true liberal principles. They just don’t get it.

  22. BB – yes, you have to sign in with your WordPress account first! It took me a little while to figure that one out!

    fif said:

    Two conservative acquaintances of mine just told me over the holiday that they are THRILLED with the new, centrist right Obama. They especially liked his choice of Warren for the Invocation. Now, they are the ones who do not see that they are being used, because he is giving THEM what they want. Gullible fools. Don’t bother with your aggressive self-righteousness, we are immune to your tantrums now.

    But fif – the conservatives are the ones that Obama has ALWAYS been indebted to. The evangelicals are the ones that got him elected, and they are the ones that he will try to keep happy.

    Sadly, the fauxgressives are under the bus with us. Some are worth sharing the undercarriage with, some are not. I think it’s that knowledge – that we, the “losers” and “deadenders” will end up rejecting some of THEM – that hurts them so.

  23. Michael: I wonder if “hate” is really the correct word. At the least it conjures up emotion. I personally believe that he simply does not “give a sh*t” about much outside of his own sphere.

    Someone please point out to me one time that he ever appeared to go out of his way to defend or uphold a principle. When he went so far as to disavow the minister whose church he attended for 20 yrs out of political expediency this was the best illustration of someone who truly could care less about anything or anyone who may present a problem to his being elected.

    Far better had he embraced the man and stood by him on a personal level then to throw him to the wolves as he did. It says something about his character. In other words, he lacks one.

  24. Really I believe the Chri$tina and Tommie Boi crowd have a problem with us makeing our case and being proved correct….

    come I think I missed a few Obama H@tes…any one can add to the list as they see fit…

    Man this guy spouts hope and change but really H@tes alot….

  25. Obama has certainly played both sides. He said one thing to gain Democratic voters and the opposite to gain Republican voters.

  26. Golly gee, I thought we were so small and insignificant, Obamabots. Why don’t you go jack off to your cardboard cutout of Barack and leave us the f*ck alone?

    LOL! Sing it madamab!!

  27. I hope more people read this post. Perhaps Republicans will stop referring to the media and Democrats in general as “Liberals”. It’s clear from the definition that Democrat does not necessarily mean Liberal.

    Don’t even get me started on the word “Progressive”.

  28. Bostonboomer: Could you please add my comment? I haven’t been able to post one there for several days regardless of how I log in. Here’s the one I wrote:

    Anyone who is questioning The Confluence’s bona fides as a “liberal blog” is invited to read our Credo . The Credo has been at the top of our site since the inception of The Confluence. The Confluence was founded on liberal principles and this is what sets it apart from some of the other blogs in our category that were based on the thoughts of individuals. We are a liberal blog.
    Once again, we would like to thank those who nominated us. We are honored to be included in this category with so many other noteworthy and excellent blogs.
    Sincerely,
    RD

    I highly recommend that we refrain from using negative or defensive commentary at the Weblog Awards site. There had to have been a lot more friends than enemies to have nominated us and we should behave graciously. It really is quite an honor and I am delighted.

  29. Love and hate are emotions. Indifference is the cruelest of all. He is credited for always being “cool”. I interpret that as his overall indifference. He could not care less.

  30. Well, if you want true liberals to attain power, don’t vote facist Democrat. Don’t vote conservative Republican either. Vote, hm… PUMA?

  31. Hmmm…good point, RD. Oh well – I tend to be a little excitable sometimes, if you haven’t noticed!

    😉

    Must get going now. Have a wonderful day, everyone!

  32. Liberals believe in fundamental fairness.

    Yes. I am a liberal.

  33. AP Obama-shill Jocelyn Noveck has done a monthly summary of how politics saturated pop culture. Under a photo of Tina Fey, Noveck states in April, “In one of his many pop-culture moments, OBAMA [sic, she does all caps] displays true hip-hop cred, channeling Jay-Z with a Dirt Off Your Shoulders reference…”

    Nice, huh? No word of the finga, no mention of 99 Problems directed at both Hillary & Sarah, and Obama gets admiration for his Jay-Z connection. I friggin hate the AP with a wild passion, and fervently hope they go bankrupt and don’t get a penny of bailout money.

  34. Pat you are so right:

    red-eddited to express the correct Obam sentiment:

    look the frost is on the pumkin for the obats they are waking up to the fact Obama has lied to them:

    1) Obama doesnt give a $hit about da G@YS(you mean I didnt tell you this way back)

    2) Obama doesnt give a $hit about women who do not know their place(barefoot and Preggers)

    3)Obama doesnt give a $hit about universal healthcare(sick go to an emergency room)

    4)Obama doesnt give a $hit about the Middle East(it will spoil my mello)

    5) Obama doesnt give a $hit about Hillary Clinton

    6) Obama doesnt give a $hit about work ( what I cant vote present on every bill congress presents to me?)

    7) Obama doesnt give a $hit about poor people(can you believe the price of arugula)

    8)Obama doesnt give a $hit about change (of course I am keeping SecDef Gates-stay the course)

    9) Obama doesnt give a $hit about mother earth (Sec Interior Salazar-you show them what drill baby drill really means)

    10) Obama doesnt give a $hit about dissent(I think Stalin Mao Hitler and Sadam were right-call them all R@cists)

    Yeah this guy is so liberal….Pat get me my vomit bucket!

    Better Pat?

  35. If you want true liberals to attain power, vote for true liberals.

  36. Michael: Perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And here comes the vomit bucket once again.

  37. madamab: I have been known to get mad and defensive. It’s really a curse when you do it at work because EMAIL LIVES FOREVER!!!

    So, I have learned to write the most vicious email or message I can. Then walk away from it. Then come back and edit out the most inflammatory words. Then put my tongue in my cheek and really mess with their heads until they don’t know whether they’ve been kissed or slapped. Then, hit the send button.

    But in the case above, I want us to have as positive a footprint as possible. It’s always better to make allies than enemies. So, kill them with kindness. They have included us with the best writers on the web. Really, that is what this is all about. We are being recognized for our writing an clarity of our thoughts. win or lose, it is a thrilling thing.

  38. But fif – the conservatives are the ones that Obama has ALWAYS been indebted to. The evangelicals are the ones that got him elected, and they are the ones that he will try to keep happy.

    madamab: we knew that, but his campaign and it’s PR arm (ie: the MSM) presented him as the true progressive candidate, and evil Hillary was–gasp–a triangulating centrist! These two acquaintances actually pointed to that: he WAS a liberal leftist, but now, “in order to bring about real change” has shifted to the right to “bring everyone together.” I thought it was amusing in stomach-wrenching sort of way that they have even adopted the hopey-changey buzz words now that it serves their purpose. I used the example of: pro-life vs. pro-choice. Someone needs to take a stand and fight for their fundamental principles/beliefs. You cannot have it both ways. It’s a squishy illusion that will not work to accomplish anything of significance. They just looked back at me blankly when I brought this concrete example into the conversation. Must be a downer for all that Unity Pony dreamin’.

  39. gosh I think next year we should nominate every blog that supported Obama for best conservative blogg!

  40. I agree with you there, myiq. I don’t believe the Democratic party counts as liberal anymore, though. Not since the party supported Obama. A party that supports a president who doesnt give a $hit probably has the same attitude.

  41. How about: The Best Blog Who Supported Obama Hands Down With Heads Up Their Ass?

    And the winner is……………………………………….

  42. They have included us with the best writers on the web. Really, that is what this is all about. We are being recognized for our writing an clarity of our thoughts. win or lose, it is a thrilling thing.

    RD: and you richly deserve it. You get fiesty and off-color, but I think it is your ability to speak with principled clarity, humor and wit that is unique. Then, you give us commenters the freedom to provide the inflammatory snark that is best left out of the main posts (for the most part). We can be baaad, while you present our case to the world (IMHO).

  43. To Karen re your voting “Democrat” or Republican. Please know that Rush Limbaugh is NOT correct when he calls it the “Democrat” party. It is the Democratic party and you vote “Democratic” not “Democrat” when that is your choice. And Democratic platform, not Democrat platform. Would you use the term Republic platform? You can, however, vote for “a” Democrat. Strange, but true. Sorry if this is considered bad form to mention.
    My opinion: There are not enough enlightened (non-misogynist) people in this country to support a third party. Recall how so many Hillary delegates deserted her at the convention? We need to be a strong enough group to impact the Democratic party’s selection for 2016. And downticket votes.

  44. I’m enjoying the Twilight Zone marathon in the background. Very campy black and white.

  45. I’m happy for Riverdaughter and Confluence, so congratulations on the recognition for this blog.

    I’m looking for a new name for what I am, which is fiercely independent in my thinking, determined to inform my self and others whenever possible, and persistent in my assertion that silencing dissent and discussion is neither liberal or progressive. I reject group-think; I’m contrarian; my guiding lights are honesty, knowledge, and justice.

    I cannot reconcile any of those with the Democratic Party anymore, nor with most of the so-called “liberal” blogs, which have marched in jack-booted lockstep in silencing dissent in their comments sections, up to and including actually going in and editing people’s words! It crosses the line to do such a thing, and no “progressive” or “liberal” would think such a thing is appropriate. It is the act of a fascist stomping on free speech, a thuggish act of power, and then who later, when challenged, says arrogantly: “Get over it.”

  46. Pat said: “Someone please point out to me one time that he ever appeared to go out of his way to defend or uphold a principle.”
    OOOO, you’re right – in fact this is the only area in which he has been consistent – he is consistently inconsistent! 👿

  47. I agree with you there, myiq. I don’t believe the Democratic party counts as liberal anymore, though.

    That is exactly the point Karen. The irony is, they want to condemn us for deserting the party, but the party deserted it’s own fundamental, bedrock principles, as Harold Ickes so eloquently pointed out at the RBC meeting. You cannot violate voting rights, insult women, gays, and working class voters, and then claim to be representing liberal Americans. They sold out for his billion dollar windfall–and in true Obama fashion–he didn’t even use it for downticket Dems. Who are the real traitors to the party?

    It’s very simple: they became the worst of the Republicans, using the end to justify the means like Rove. McCain was not of that school, despite his conservative stances.

  48. Mountainaires, on January 1st, 2009 at 11:38 am Said:

    Nodding–very well said.

  49. One only needs to read the postings of the Front Pagers to know what consists of intelligent thought and critical thinking.
    These writers more often then not define what many of us would love to be able to artfully communicate.

    They rightfully deserve the recognition that is daily spilled like morning cereal into our brains as we stand by waiting to be fed.

    No “Sugar Pops” for us. We demand the “Special K”!

  50. These writers more often then not define what many of us would love to be able to artfully communicate.

    oh…but you do Pat, you do.

  51. Gee Mountainaires,

    Thanks for calling me a thuggish fascist.

  52. It’s not even noon on New Years Day and I’ve already been insulted.

  53. I was liberal when liberal wasnt cool ,
    actually before that , 😉

    and add bleeding heart too…

  54. I’ve watched the little internecine battle brewing since your nomination, and it seems to me that the sites decrying your inclusion in the category and it seems that they’re suffering from the same lack of clarity that has been demonstrated by many on the right.

    Being a liberal or a conservative is not defined by your allegiance to the current, temporal (and very flawed, IMHO) party leadership. That just makes you a stooge, and god knows the world has enough stooges.

  55. Do you know who else calls us thugs and fascists because we delete or edit their trollish comments?

    The very same people who questioned our liberal credentials at Weblog!

  56. OT

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

    This map made me laugh and cry ….. I was wondering what the “response from the liberal bloggers” hee hee would be
    Myself , I think bo shuould invite the guy over and give him a tour of the fifty seven states to bring him a little closer to reality , but hey what they heck do I know …

  57. RD,

    I posted your comment. It got a little bit flubbed up, but the meaning is clear. I actually registered on the site and got in that way. I didn’t use WordPress or anything else. I filled out the form and got an e-mail to confirm. Now I’m logged in automatically.

  58. Respect for voting rights and the working class among some other things is what our entire country was founded upon. Violating this goes against both liberal and conservative principles.

  59. congratulations riverdaughter..
    best 09 to all

  60. It is really warming up here in Western MA!! It is now up to 12 degrees! Time to start another fire in the fireplace and wait for Spring. I hate the cold as much as the humidity!

    Good day to make chili and cornbread. Otherwise the weather sucks!

  61. Chili and cornbread sounds good, Pat.

  62. myiq: I don’t think you were being insulted. That was directed at the blogs that would not allow any HRC supporters or Obama critics to participate in any way in their forums–so we all came here. Editing out provocateurs who do not want to debate, but just want to interrupt the thread is not the same thing at all. You have allowed comments from different persuasions as long as they are respectful and contribute intelligent thoughts.

  63. Insulting any group has never been my intention…

  64. Karen: that is true. Ickes pointed out that the RBC committee violated the DNC’s OWN Party Charter in order to serve their own biased agenda. They selectively enforced the “roolz” in order to promote their own chosen candidate.

  65. Karen: myiq was talking to Mountainaires.

  66. Swan spirit you should read a book called “The Nine Nations of North America” I read it back in 1978 it also riff on the Idea of the united states-

  67. as 9 distinct nations acting as on counntry

  68. one country gotta get back to house cleaning it is a new years tradition I have

  69. Mountainaires: We edit or delete comments based on 1.) whether the commenter is insulting or offensive to us by calling us racists or facists or c&*(ts or something like that. and 2.) whether they are spreading carefully crafted, Axlerod approved propaganda and astroturf. That seems to us like advertising and we have no obligation to carry it on this station.
    Is it censorship? Nope. Censorship is what the government does to squash dissent. We are not the government. Furthermore, the internet is a vast, final frontier. If you want to express your own opinion, you can start your own blog. If this were the ONLY blog in the universe where you could express your opinion, we would be obligated to give you a forum, no matter how offensive or stupid your opinions were. Fortunately, this is not the case. You are free to leave us any time you please.
    It’s ok, Do not apologize. We will not be offended.

  70. Wonder how many of those protesting Confluence as a liberal blog voted for George W. Bush? Perhaps a few.

  71. Jmac:

    There are a lot of people who said “STFU and support George Bush” and “STFU and support the Iraq war” who now say “STFU and support Obama”

  72. To fuzzy and Pat Johnson: I hate to clean. It is my least favorite activity. What I want to know from you neat freaks is what you think about while you’re cleaning. I mean, do you have your mind on the task or is there some other internal monologue going on? Whenever I clean, like when I am scrubbing the bathroom floor, all I can think about is how much I hate it. Hate, hate, hate it.
    And how much I wish I could have a maid do it for me. Or why can’t I train Brook to do this and is it too late? Or something like that.
    I love the result of a clean house but I am incompetent in acheiving that goal. My mind wanders and I leave the vacuum on the steps or I try to put stuff away and find I can’t organize it so I do nothing.
    I’ve tried making lists but then forget to login to RememberTheMilk to read them. I procrastinate. I do a half assed job. It’s really annoying.
    I wasn’t raised like this. In fact, even through college, my room was always neat as a pin. But as I got older, the cleaning thing just went the way of all of my other youthful indiscretions. I just don’t feel up to it.
    Recently, I’ve taken to downloading audiobooks from Audible and this has helped me stay on task by allowing me to ignore what I am doing so I can concentrate on the narrative.
    What do you guys do? What goes through the mind of a neat freak?

  73. Did I misunderstand Mountainaires at 11:38? I thought that comment was directed at DKos & Co. not this site. Rereading it again, I’m not so sure, and it does seem to be directed at myiq and his very creative and hilarious editing skills. If so, Mountainaires you need to find another blog, because we are not going to sit idly by and let people spit on us repeatedly without defending ourselves. The commenters that are edited are repeat offenders who have absolutely no interest in an intelligent discussion. They just come here to be abusive. There are limits to free speech, as in yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater. The internet is open, and posters are free to define their own forum. That is not the same as refusing any opposing viewpoints, which the posters do here if they are composed of respectful analysis and knowledge, not petty insults. As RD said, you are free to spend the enormous time, energy and passion that is required to create and manage your own blog if you don’t like this one.

  74. This blog has intelligent, thougthful, postings and comments.
    I guess what the obots are steamed at is PUMA does NOT equal SUCKER.
    We think, we listen, we care,we communicate,and have common sense.
    Those attributes scare the obots, by picking color over country they have to look at themselves and a lot of them are beginning not to like what they see.
    I am very proud to be among people who care for this country and their fellow humans.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  75. It would reduce voting to a pointless exercise.
    *******************************

    That’s the bottom line for me. Maybe CK knows more than I do and that’s why she doesn’t bother to vote half the time. To me, it’s a sacred responsibility and NO ONE has the right to screw with the results, not even my fellow Democrats.

  76. Jmac it’s the convert’s zeal. So many exrepub bots and war supporters now want to play liberal gatekeeper. Republican bullies Into dem bullies. I’ll take a pass on sully, kos and Obama substituting their own psychoses for liberalism, thanks. If they and their minions are the vanguard, then liberalism has lost it’s meaning.

  77. Hi All & Happy New Year!!
    I was happy last night when my 1st time voter (for Obama) daughter, told me she would have voted for Hillary in the primaries “if” she was old enough @ the time.
    However she & my Hillary turned Obama voting husband still don’t get my resistance to him.
    Just like someone on a prior blog said, the now, Obama supporters they know brush off things about him as “all politicians do it”; including Hill & Bill. Ugh…………!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
    **I agree with the “tone” that the Republicans gave us Obama.
    Of the caucus(s) & primaries he “won” I’ll bet MOST of them (including the last day in Montana) were “Republican Leaning”.

  78. Recently, I’ve taken to downloading audiobooks from Audible and this has helped me stay on task by allowing me to ignore what I am doing so I can concentrate on the narrative
    **********
    Audiobooks are great for passing time…such as cleaning the BR or driving 1,000 miles.

  79. tpt/ny: no, not all politicians use voter suppression, intimidation and fraud to win elections. Certainly not. And that is just ONE of the many objections to PEBO.

  80. Congrats to RD and all other TC writers and commenters! I’ve been offline much of the last few weeks so I didn’t see the finalist list until now.

    That comment by “KathyK” at the Weblogs Awards list is typical fauxgressive simiplisticism. Not only is it factually incorrect (i.e., a lie, also typical), but it sums up an entire mentality that says that brand loyalty, not ideology or beliefs (or g*d forbid, action), is the only political touchstone of the new political generation. It’s that sort of over-simplistic binary, black vs white thinking that starts wars.

    TC as a blog didn’t support or endorse McPalin for president, but even if it had, the reasons underlying the support would be what made the blog liberal or not. But that is just too difficult, or too much work, for some to handle. So much easier to mainline the branding litmus test hope drugs and surrender one’s brain to the great central marketing cpu.

  81. And how many times didyou hear these same people vow to vote for mac over hill? Endlessly. For years. So thanks for the idea, hypocrites. Then again, obama’s expressed policy of total capitulation is clearly much more virtuous than ghastly triangulation so it is understandable. Capitulation is synonymous with fighting in the magic penis to english dictionary,

  82. Obama is willing to compromise with Republicans on God, Gays, and Guns. And business. And a slew of other policies. We’re all purple.

    What makes him a liberal?

  83. Tpt/ny, that was so funny. The only thing obama supposedly had was his hooey changey schtick, lacking all expertise and experience and all. Yet, everytime he got caught doing something shady, it immediately became, “so?they all do it!” and bang goes their entire argument

  84. Pat Johnson @ 11:23. That would be WKJM.

  85. Pat Johnsom @ 11:23. That would be WKJM.

  86. Fuzzy thanks , I was just struck by how someone in power at this present time , can have such a skewered view of this country … I mean they think W .VA . , S.C. N.C.Ky. and Tenn. wuold actually join northern states !!

    Evidently this view of the USA is “all the rage in Russia ” at the moment . Of course , that might be our skewered view of them as well …..

  87. Seriously , here is a pic of bos magical hopey changey “Schtick”

  88. First, congratulations to RD and all who have created a wonderful place to expand thinking and challenge the standard thinking of this election cycle.

    When I read the critical comments, I couldn’t help but wonder about the consternation those folks must feel when they order at a restaurant with a menu or shop at Dillard’s. A difference in taste or style just seems to put them in their default mode of whirling dervish. Their spinning accounts for their dizziness.

    Liberal does mean a tolerance for differences doesn’t it? At least it used to.

  89. It’s amazing to me how many blogs seem to be dedicated primarily to criticizing The Confluence. Another one linked here just now–one I’ve never heard of. But if we are so useless, so ineffectual, why bother? Another unsolvable mystery….

  90. One of my New Year’s resolutions is to try and calm down. HA! I get really fired up over causes.

    I LOVE your post Riverdaughter; and I love all of the people here and their comments and posts, too. You say for me what I cannot put into words.

    Congrats to ALL who made RD’s blog what it is. Congrats to RD for her wonderful writing and putting it all into perspective. I come here every single day to hear my news and keep on the side of what is right.

    Thank you for allowing me to take a stand no matter how difficult it was against the grain, which I have done most of my life. I am 62 years old (well, in 9 more days) and I AM PROUD TO CONTINUE TO BE A LIBERAL in spite of my protest vote for McPalin – the FIRST time I have EVER voted Republican!

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

  91. “fif & seriously”
    I AGREE with BOTH of YOU; but my “liberal” loved ones think something’s wrong with me!!
    I still keep the “We Will not be Silenced video” on hand so that maybe one day they’ll be ready to see it.
    I recently connected with a nice conservative woman through this process. She told me when she saw that video it “changed her forever”.
    To my husband Sean Hannity is the devil & that I listen to him now is horrible after what “he did & said about Hillary”. My response is that what the Democrats did to them was/is worse. Then we agree to disagree, & life goes on.
    Ugh…………!!!!

  92. I was born a liberal, my father was a liberal. He was such a dyed in the wool liberal that even tho he earned good money as a General Electric engineer, he believed in direct income tax, as opposed to indirect (sales) taxes, and in redistribution of wealth.

    He would have turned over in his grave if he had seen the RBC meeting. And that’s what made me join the other liberals on this blog.

    Like swannie said :

    I was liberal when liberal wasnt cool ,
    actually before that ,

    and add bleeding heart too…

  93. BB 1.50 said “It’s amazing to me how many blogs seem to be dedicated primarily to criticizing The Confluence. ..”

    Do you think they’re “seriously advised” (told to) do so?

    Valhalla -I adore your posts

  94. RD – your statement and mine are both posted on the weblog.

  95. I am proud to be a Republican but I support PUMA

  96. Karen: “They object on grounds of r@cism.”

    LOL. And the sad truth is that it is the Conflucians who held fast to their beliefs and judged BO on the content of his character and not the color of his skin. The Confluence is a shining beacon of liberalism amidst the thick fog of prejudice, intolerance and (frighteningly obsessive) hate that is ObamaNation.

  97. Plus some of us PUMAs here at the Confluence voted Green Party. I guarantee none of those fauxgressive blogs did.

    I voted Green Party because that party actually stands for liberal values, and yes, I like Cynthia McKinney. She had a true liberal voting record in congress. I feel the DNC smeared her in 2006 as a dry run into what they did to Hillary in 2008. The DNC wanted Democrats with good voting records on liberal issues (especially women’s rights) out.

    McKinney is showing that liberal backbone even now, This week she was on a boat to deliver medical supplies to Gaza and the Israelis refused to allow them to land to deliver the supplies, and hit the yaht and damaged it.

    Thankfully, Ms. McKinney was not injured. Ms. McKinney says the Israeli military boat rammed them, causing the damage. The Israelis denied they rammed the boat but then made a statement that rather proved the truth of what Ms. McKinney said, read at the bottom of this article at the Israeli government statement:

    http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2008/12/31/mckinney.html

    Thank you Ms. McKinney for yet again making me glad I voted for you! (My ideal ticket would be Hillary Clinton for President and Cynthia McKinney for Vice President. Both women have strong voting records on Human Rights, Labor Union support, and the Environment. Hillary is for well thought out use of the military while McKinney is a pacifist. It would be an ideal balance of liberalism from congressional women known for acting on their words. )

  98. This place is liberal as well as SAFE!

  99. Ciardha, Although I voted McPalin, I was a vocal supporter of Cynthia McKinney and sent her money whenever I could. I’d always include a note with my donation thanking her for fighting the good fight. And I’d always remind folks that out of all the candidates running she was the ONLY ONE who voted against the war.

  100. Pat said: “Someone please point out to me one time that he ever appeared to go out of his way to defend or uphold a principle ”

    the only time bo gets incensed about anything and goes into major defensive mode is when something about HIMSELF… the GREAT BO is challenged , then we are subjected to one of his speeches …….. and all his bots come out and mimic and repeat everything he said

  101. To Riverdaughter and myiq2xu who responded to my comment previously.

    myiq2xu: if you are the “moderator” who went in and edited the quotes from Richard Falk, then you deserve to be insulted for doing it. Before you start changing quotes, you ought to know what you’re talking about, which you clearly did not. There were no food or medical supplies being transported into Gaza at the point of my comment, and your insertions were inaccurate. You could have posted your own comment responding to mine, and posted your inaccuracies under your own name. Instead, you hid like a coward behind a power title of “moderator” and altered my comments. Shame on you.

    Next time please post your own comment in reply to mine if you don’t like my opinion. Stop going in and altering a comment which has my name on it.

    To Riverdaughter:

    My comment did not contain any racism, or any words related to racism, any insults to anyone on this blog, or any thing like that. There was simply no reason for editing or altering my comment, except that the “moderator” didn’t like the content of my comment.

    My comment contained quotes from the UN Special Rapporteur, which were edited and altered. Quotes from the UN Special Rapporteur for Palestine which the “moderator” didn’t like are perfectly legitimate reasons for disagreement. But altering quotes is not a legitimate act of “moderation.”

    Again, the edited portion was a quote from Richard Falk, the UN Special Rapporteur. My comment was then edited with facts about supplies being transported into Israel, which were later proven to be inaccurate, because no supplies at the time that I stated such, were being transported into Israel. So, basically, the “moderator” who didn’t like what I said about no supplies coming in to Gaza, was transformed into the “moderator’s” own personal propaganda crusade in my comment.

    When I complained to Shtuey about it, Shtuey said: “Get Over It.” So, I reminded Shtuey that I’ve heard that somewhere else before. And, now, I’m invited to leave by Riverdaughter because I have refused to “sit down and shut up.”

    Oh, the irony. If it were not so pathetic, I’d be moved to derisive laughter.

  102. I also wanted to add that this was the first time I ever voted for a Republican. I have always admired John McCain and felt he would have been a better president than Obama and actually i did agree with his policies over Obama. McCain is not a conservative but made his reputation out of being a maverick.

    When I was younger, I wanted to save the world and also as an African American was always told that the GOP’s were “prejudiced”. As I matured I saw that this was not true and in fact MLK was a Republican. The DNC in my opinion plays to constituencies like Blacks in order to exploit them. We have never been truly empowered by the DNC. Now with this Illinois fiasco anyone in office with high melanin count is a by product of race baiting. I am not for the bailouts and I am against unions. I am for people helping themselves.

    At the heart of the recruiting strategy of the left—recruit the young –they got me at one time but now I am gone.

  103. Why are comments with “r@cism” spelled out getting through but I’m stuck in moderation? Are there some new trigger words I don’t know about?

  104. Liberal does mean a tolerance for differences doesn’t it? At least it used to.

    Well Prolix, that seems to have completely escaped them. It’s their Obotamized version of liberalism or none, and in many cases, it’s coming from former Republicans or kids arguing with long-time party activists about what true liberal principles are. Hence–the fascist tone.

    tpt/ny: isn’t it bizarre that they make an argument about how conservatives have treated HRC, but ignore the fact that Obama’s campaign smeared two of the most passionate advocates for civil rights as rac*sts? That was a major turning point for me. Using r*ce to advance himself at their expense, after all they’ve done for the AA community, was unconscionable.

  105. happy hang over day!

  106. Time’s account of PUMA wasn’t bad, though it needs updating past Denver. 16% of McCain’s voters told exit polls that they would have voted Democratic if Hillary had been the nominee. That doesn’t count Democrats who stayed home.

    Imo, Party Unity My Ass! says it all. We’re now a bloc of independent swing voters — forever.

    If any MSM sites have comment strings about this Time buzzword thing, I’d appreciate a tip so I can link to the string from PumaResponders.blogspot.com

    tdo@turndownobama.com

  107. LIBERAL – 8 thesaurus results from THESAURUS.COM
    1. Main Entry: liberal
    Part of Speech: adjective
    Definition: progressive
    Synonyms: advanced, avant-garde, broad, broad-minded, catholic, enlightened, flexible, free, general, high-minded, humanistic, humanitarian, indulgent, intelligent, interested, latitudinarian, left, lenient, libertarian, loose, magnanimous, permissive, radical, rational, reasonable, receiving, receptive, reformist, tolerant, unbiased, unbigoted, unconventional, understanding, unorthodox, unprejudiced
    Antonyms: conservative, narrow, narrow-minded

    2.Main Entry: liberal
    Part of Speech: adjective
    Definition: giving, generous
    Synonyms: altruistic, beneficent, benevolent, bighearted*, bounteous, bountiful, casual, charitable, eleemosynary, exuberant, free, free-and-easy, handsome, kind, lavish, loose, munificent, openhanded, openhearted, philanthropic, princely, prodigal, profuse, soft-touch, unselfish, unsparing, unstinging
    Antonyms: economical, greedy, mean, thrifty, ungenerous
    3.Main Entry: liberal
    Part of Speech: adjective
    Definition: abundant, profuse
    Synonyms: ample, aplenty, bounteous, bountiful, copious, dime a dozen, galore, generous, handsome, lavish, munificent, no end, plentiful, plenty, rich
    Antonyms: lacking, poor, wanting
    4.Main Entry: broad
    Part of Speech: adjective
    Definition: Not narrow or conservative in thought, expression, or conduct.
    Synonyms: broad-minded, open-minded, progressive, tolerant
    5.Main Entry: liberal
    Part of Speech: adjective
    Definition: Favoring civil liberties and social progress.
    Synonyms: liberalistic, progressive
    6.Main Entry: generous
    Part of Speech: adjective
    Definition: Characterized by bounteous giving.
    Synonyms: free, freehanded, handsome, lavish, munificent, openhanded, unsparing, unstinting
    7.Main Entry: liberal
    Part of Speech: noun
    Definition: A person with liberal political opinions.
    Synonyms: liberalist, progressive
    8.Main Entry: liberal
    Part of Speech: adjective
    Synonyms: abundant, ample, benevolent, bounteous, bountiful, broad, catholic, charitable, copious, flexible, free, freehanded, generous, giving, handsome, hospitable, knowledgeable, latitudinarian, lavish, lenient, magnanimous, messianic, munificent, open, open-handed, openhanded, philanthropic, plentiful, princely, prodigal, profuse, progressive, radical, tolerant, unstinted
    Antonyms: bigoced, illiberal, limited, narrow, stingy, ungenerous

    I LOVE the thesaurus whoda thunk I was a latitudarian..is that different than a longitudinarian ??

  108. I am a political independent. Let me just say wake up Democrat women.

    “You know that the sexism that brought Hillary down was a sin against everything you believed”.

    No, the Democrats do not know this. The sexism was fine with them and it came easily and naturally to them. The liberal groups you thought represented women like NOW were nothing but a passive ladies axillary to the liberal men. The sexism continued once BO won the election in that competent women were excluded from consideration for appointments and sexist slime were appointed. Open your eyes. Keep them open.

  109. Mountainaires: I have been a participant on this blog for many months, and I have never seen a moderator alter thoughtful, factual comments that are a sincere effort to debate. If that happened, I would wait for a response before you start insulting RD & Co. with comments like:

    Oh, the irony. If it were not so pathetic, I’d be moved to derisive laughter.

    You made your case clearly, now let’s see what myiq, Shtuey &/or RD have to say in response. I was not here for your post, so I don’t know which thread you are referring to–you don’t seem to remember who the moderator was. Which thread was it and who was the author?

    The only editing I have ever seen here has been after many warnings to people who were deliberately here to abuse and insult. When they refused to be respectful, they were made the butt of the joke. It’s not a blog that allows for free-for-all content like NoQ, which can become raunchy and hostile. This is open, but a certain degree of civil discourse is required. This is not a critique, just adding my 2 cents after much experience here.

  110. Definition: Characterized by bounteous giving.

    I am laughing at this. The repubs that I know give more to charities than liberals. My liberal friends are sick of me begging them to help the cultural centers in Chicago.

    Spertus our Jewish Museum is closing and just let go of all of the archivists and curators, why I am I the one contacted for help. Because I actually help.

    Lets get rid of labels and partys. The DEMS in Chicago are crooks and give NOTHING to our community.

    BC was a centrist and that is why I liked him.

  111. The reason the obots are upset about this blog’s well-deserved nomination is because The Confluence provides a voice for all of us they tried to silence and scrub from the internet. My comments were scrubbed from a site I visited for years… and it wasn’t even a political blog! As best I can tell my crime was calling Obama a Chicago thug. LOL. I guess the truth hurts.

    RD has created not only a smart, savvy and diverse haven but a vital avenue for dissent and protest. As soon as voting is open, I’ll be sending out links to my family and friends. Does one need to register to vote? I want to make sure I’m all set to vote early.

  112. afrocity: the conservative acquaintances I mentioned earlier, were so impressed by Obama’s cosmetic move to the right (though he’s never been a true progressive anyway), because he “has to do that in order to create real CHANGE!” They said it as if it’s some kind of a revelation, and I thought of Bill. They’re all over the map with their rationalizations and excuses:

    It’s new and different!
    All politicians do that!

    Well, which is it?

  113. Liberal, schmiberal. I am b.s.-averse. Call me what you like. Is there a “Best Aversion to Bull” blog award?
    I don’t always buy nationally advertised toilet paper, either.

  114. Afrocity, I have to agree with your observations. One aspect of this (mostly horrible) election that I can enjoy is a new appreciation for the limits of “conservative” stereotypes. It was a wonderful experience to connect with so many conservatives and moderates and see how much we had in common. And I LOVED seeing Palin identify herself as a feminist. It was truly uplifting.

  115. I was born a liberal, it’s in my DNA somehow. I grew up in a Republican household in a Republican town, but became a political independent who almost invariably voted D (sometimes reflexively, sorry to say). The Confluence is somehow my natural political home, the best fit I’ve found on the Net, by far. So I’d say this is a liberal blog with inherent appeal for those who are independent thinkers, the sort who can withstand condemnation by the herd, who will fight back with head proudly held high.

  116. Mountainaires,

    I have no idea who you are or whether you have your own blog, but I just went back and read through a large number of comments by you. Leaving aside the content of what you have written, one problem you seem to have is that you use a very condescending and even sometimes abusive tone in your interactions with other commenters. I wasn’t involved in the I/P discussions, and I know that topic often leads to passionate disputes. Still it really helps a lot if you couch your arguments in courteous language.

  117. Brad: the theme most Dems for McCain voters espoused was “Country & Principles before Party.” Since the Dem Party violated the most fundamental democratic principles, the other choice was both a protest against the corrupt practices of the DNC and for some, a vote for the person they felt at least personified a level of honor. No contradiction or rationalization that I see there.

  118. I thought the meme was that he was just acting all center right to throw every one off so he could do all these fantastically liberal things!

    or did i miss a couple of more memes and no one sent me the email?

  119. Sorry, brad, some of us did not ‘openly and vociferously’ support McCain. We voted for him purely as protest, meanwhile believing he was the more decent of the two presidential candidates, strictly in terms of human decency. I seriously doubt McCain would’ve shoe horned Warren onto the inaugural platform. So no, a vote for McCain and against Rick Warren is not contradictory in the least. I have nothing to forgive myself for, nothing at all. I resent your implication that this may well be the cast.

  120. Cinie, I totally agree. I am B.S. Adverse.

    fif, Obama is a demagogue and doesn’t give a rodents a@@ about the left or the right. He will govern from what is best for Obama. I was in Barnes and Nobel yesterday and had to look at all of the Obama junk plastered all over.

    The left killed it for me when I saw what a bunch of hypocrites they were by silencing others. We are for freedom as long as it falls in with our beliefs. I am for abortions within reasonable trimesters (1st) but not partial birth abortions. I am for Gay rights but if the people of CA voted for prop 8, then that is what the people voted for.

    The left recruits them young then disregards you as you get older. I was called an oldie and I am in my 30’s.

    As far as feminism is concerned I feel that more feminist groups are concerned with leftist ideology than with the actual rights of women.

  121. Correction: “this may well be the case.”

  122. I never really saw McCain as a conservative, I was always under the impression he was more center right … which is where Obama is preparing to govern for … unless, some one wants to try to convince me that’s just a rouse

  123. What choices were Obama supporters “forced to make?”

    Were they forced to commit voter fraud, intimidation and suppression?
    Were they forced to use misogyny, homophobia, and rac*sm to bully and harass Democrats who supported another candidate?
    Were they forced to bully anyone who expressed alternate opinions and criticized their candidate from almost every forum available?
    Were they forced to be physically intimidating at caucus sites?

    I do not feel like I need to apologize for voting Republican for the first time in my life, or that it makes me a “thief.” I did it specifically as an act of principle and conscientious objection.

  124. UM BRAD no … Actually , Sarah Palin is more liberal on some issues than Rick Warren , and she would NEVER compare being gay to pedophilia and incest …
    Actually there is more continuity, and latitude in those positions than rigididy or hypocrisy . I am surprised at your lack of perception in this area.
    Also the blog as a whole did not choose to support any one candidate , but put forth several positions and debated them all . The only real emphasis was on each person choosing per their conscience.
    I think it is unfortunate that you paint us all with the same brush , and make the same egregious mistake as our detractors , while proclaiming you DONT want to inflame the group.
    The hypocrisy is on the part of bo, in saying he is progressive and then choosing RW. McCain was in action more suportive of women , while bo only gave lip service, while he perpetrated abuse ; in order to gain support. There is the hypocrisy.

    and I think you protest too much Brad ..

  125. uhoh in moderation ………..

  126. afrocity: I used to know betty friedan well when I was a young woman –this is about the time she wrote her second stage book, she use to rail at the women in now and said they basically had focused in on just a few issues and not the bread and butter issues effecting women like equal pay for equal work, quality child care, rights to education and job opportunities in traditional areas, she used to encourage me to go run for president of NOW and bring them back to a more broad based agenda

  127. or did i miss a couple of more memes and no one sent me the email?

    daki: who can keep track anymore? He changes positions and offers vague, contradictory positions on a daily basis. He said it himself: “I am a blank slate and people can project whatever they want on to me.” It is deliberate, and obviously effective for a large number of people who are willing to twist themselves into pretzels to justify his oscillations.

  128. Dakinikat,

    And many conservatives did not vote for McCain because they felt he was a liberal in Republican clothing. You should see conservative blog comments, they are no friend of McCain.

    McCain is a good man.

  129. daki: Betty was a true pioneer. I loved Feminine Mystique when I was young.

  130. For those who don’t understand the concept of the term “protest vote.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_vote

    A Protest vote is a vote cast in an election to demonstrate the caster’s unhappiness with the choice of candidates or refusal of the current political system. It can thus be said “conjectural,” as the voter would accept other candidates in the same system, or “structural,” if the voter is opposed to the whole system — usually representative democracy, but it may also signify opposition to a two-party system where “third options” are always rejected. In this latter case, protest vote may take the form of a legal vote, but instead of voting for the mainstream candidates, it is a vote in favor of a minority or fringe candidate, either from the far-left, far-right or self-presenting as a candidate foreign to the political system.

    I have cast several “protest votes” in my voting lifetime. For example, when Jimmy Carter ran for President on the Democratic ticket, I cast my vote for the splinter “Socialist Workers’ Party.” That vote did not indicate that I wanted that group to win the election. It indicated that Jimmy Carter was not the type of Democrat I could vote for.

    It’s not a difficult concept, but many seemingly intelligent people have apparently found it hard to understand in relation to the 2008 election.

  131. Mountainaires-I did the same as BB and went back to read your comments.
    I do not want to get into the Hamas/ Israeli argument, but i saw that your dislike for myiq was based on this mild exchange:

    Mountainaires, on December 31st, 2008 at 12:49 pm Said:

    Here’s a good site for basic definitional purposes. I think this will be defined as a depression. The 1929 stock market crash was followed by rallies for a few years in the market. The Depression then, like now, was the result of bursting bubbles [literally as well as figuratively]. Nothing tried by Hoover or FDR really worked to end The Great Depression, though some policies helped some people survive it. Only a war revived the economy a decade later.

    To which myiq replied:

    myiq2xu, on December 31st, 2008 at 12:52 pm Said:

    Mountainaires:

    Please don’t repeat right-wing lies about FDR and the New Deal.

  132. As a voter who wants to be reasonably informed and not a political activist; labels, and even party affiliations, don’t make a whole lot of difference to me. Who seems competent? What makes sense? Seems to me some people hide behind labels in order to mask their incompetence. What good does it do to continue to pledge allegiance to a set of principles even when they are clearly ineffective in a given situation? I may want to get to Oakland over the Golden Gate Bridge, and I can call myself a Golden Gate-ian until I’m blue in the face, but if I follow that path, I’ll just end up further away from my destination.

  133. afrocity: i know that word maverick got completely overused by the McCain camp, but I always thought he was pretty pragmantic on issues and just wanted to do what he thought was right … i know the right wing folks I’m familiar with were horrified when he came thru the primary, no conservative I know considers him a conservative … remember limbaugh and coulter in the primaries? they were brutal … as well as all those focus on the family freaks

  134. Ciardha, I could not agree more. The way mckinney was torpedoed by this party was absolutely unreal. I understand some people have a problem with her politically, but we have plenty of male politicians who are scumbags and even criminals, yet someone like her becomes public enemy number one? Typical

  135. I don’t protest vote. I would not have voted for McCain unless he had was someone that I believed in and supported. If the GOP nominee had been Mitt Romney, I would not have cast a ballot this time.

    I never should have voted for Kerry.

  136. Cinie,

    What a terrific analogy!

  137. brad: “coming together” cannot be a goal unto itself. That’s exactly what created the PUMA movement. They wanted us all to “come together” for the sake of party unity, regardless of the tactics that were used to select a fraudulent candidate, and what was done to our candidate(s), their supporters, and our democracy. Our response? P-U-M-A! I still feel that way. Until the Dem Party fights for the fundamental principles they claim to represent, I don’t want to come together with them. If new leaders emerge and start to do that again, fine. If not, I will choose my candidates independently, based on their records and character. These shifts and cycles can be very long-term, and we do not know where any of this is going. The only thing we can use as a reference is our own experience and sense of truth.

  138. fif: yeah, she got caught him in the not a liberal label also because she argued that if NOW kept pushing for gay rights and reproductive rights to the exclusion of everything else, it would be marginalized … she was right … she said better to make those just several of a large number of women’s concerns and try to bring more women into the movement than focus and push too hard on the two that divide most people

    I forced her and Kate Millet (who is definitely on the seperatist side) to sit down in a bar and have a dialogue, eventually they both went to the first world women’s conference, but that split in the women’s movement set us back a ways

  139. Also and just thinking out loud
    bo keeps saying we only have one president at a time, but is is not beyond coinkydink that both of them are on vacation ( and bo flexing his pecs just like Putin )
    while war erupts in the Middle East ..might be nice to have at least ONE of the two

    the reality is we have none

    Hillary will eventually be the de facto president ..
    She will have to be

  140. Dakinikat,

    I adored Betty Friedan. The Feminine Mystique altered my consciousness forever. And she never compromised her values. You are very fortunate to have known and interacted with her.

  141. swan: I think biden is going to be the one getting the domestic agenda thru congress too while hillary does all the foreign stuff … it kind of looks like we’ll have two ministers and the president of hopey changey rhetoric

  142. Hi Brad – my vote for McCain was a protest vote only .

    I do think he has character, thought Obama a fraud with absolutely no qualifications, & I was way to the left of him, + all the emotional stuff, misogyny etc. etc. etc. . .. however ……….

    McCain …… backed bush pretty much … for 7 years .. not so much the last year – how much respect can you have for that ? … I knew/know Palin was a pander … – His decision made me feel that I had been heard …. I said this long time ago ……

    I live in Ca. … truly, do not know how I would have voted if I lived in a swing state, at times I was angry I felt like YES McCain/Palin … however, in the quiet moments … really ……………………I didn’t see how anyone would vote for a republican this year .. LoL …;) .. look at the electoral vote .. what ?? .. 100 to 300 something … it appears quite a few people thought like I did … even FLA . .. truly shocked me , …. !! …

    I only hope – now that the dems have absolutely no excuse what so ever ………..for not getting things accomplished … they they do it . We are in desperate need of governing – there used to be good at it – I am expecting it again …

    I saw what repubs did with total control of all 3 branches of govt. for 6 years ….. No Way, No How … they suck . they really , really suck . sure, I realize it’s been going there way since Reagan … I’m hoping the Reagan legacy is over … Sure looks like it .. every time I look at that map … also , someone, please tell me what repubs have to offer anyone ??? ..

    I have become friends with some conservatives on the blogs .. we pm each other … honestly – some were just as fed up with their party as the dems were , now , did they say that out front where it was public .. ? … no. We all played our public little roles …. and met other places in private for what we did have in common ….

    What I am trying to say is Obama is a Reagan dem as far as I can see .. I wasn’t the least bit surprised at him picking rw…. .. I all ready knew what he thought of lgbt … he made it clear many times in the primaries …

  143. bradmaysfilmmaker@3:02p
    My first vote was for JFK and I was a democrat for over 45 years. This year I left the democratic party and registered as declined to state.
    This year the democratic party made me ashamed to be a democrat.
    The actions at the various caucuses, and of the rules committee were so NOT what I believed in and was taught that democracy should be.
    My country will always be before my party.
    This year the democrats forgot the constitution and who they are supposed to represent.
    Government of the people, by the people and for the people.
    For the first time in my life I voted republican as a protest against the new democratic party and what it represents now.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  144. Brad has a point.

    What PUMA did was profound. There are also consequences that follow action — a reaction. There is a point of no return.
    If you are “leftist” or democrats you are certainly not the same ones you used to be. Whether you want to acknowledge this or not you have changed. Yes the DNC changed but so have we.

  145. gxm17, on January 1st, 2009 at 2:53 pm Said: As soon as voting is open, I’ll be sending out links to my family and friends. Does one need to register to vote? I want to make sure I’m all set to vote early.
    =====================

    Pls do keep me updated on all this, I want to put out the info on pumaresponders but I don’t visit RD every day.
    tdo@turndownobama.com

  146. BB, I like to think of PUMA as the Common Sense Movement. At least, there should be a common sense movement, and PUMAs are the only group I can see using it regularly. Everybody else seems to have thrown it out the window along with accountability, principle, and dignity.

  147. What I’m suggesting, I think, is that we all have had to get our hands a bit bit dirty in this election and that that fact gives us all a place to renew a dialogue.

    Brad: what do you mean? How did we get our hands dirty? That’s what I’m not clear about. I do not consider voting McCain “getting my hands dirty.” It was, for me, the most powerful protest vote I could cast AGAINST Obama, and the DNC and their Rovian tactics to win. It was also a vote for someone that I felt, despite the difference in our policy positions, was a man of integrity. He would also only have served for 4 years, and we could get another crack at it in 2012.

    What was done that was dirty and by whom?

  148. Emerson said, “Consistency is the hobglobin of small minds.” He was talking about and condemning the lack of original thought. IMO, when you look at blogs you need to ask but one question, “How much of myself will I have to give up to fit in?” Here at the Confluence the answer was, “not a whit.” That is expansive, giving, broad-based and forward-looking, all synonyms for liberal. Automatons need not apply.

  149. p.s. re: McCain. He also has a proven record of bipartisanship, and EARNED experience, unlike someone else we know.

  150. “Rational Democrat”

    LOLOLOL!

    If that doesn’t say it all!

    Yep. Liberal=Rational.

  151. swanspirit, on January 1st, 2009 at 3:29 pm Said: Hillary will eventually be the de facto president ..
    ===========

    … of the world.

  152. Brad we voted for McCain to reform our party. Warren would be riding high under either admin. With mccain, though, there would be opposition. With Obama’s cultists controlling everything, good luck now and for the next 20 years.

  153. my objection to Rick Warren has to do specifically with his sexist and homophobic views, not the fact that he is conservative per se. I did not vote for McPalin, but I wouldn’t lump them with Rick Warren. they seemed more enlightened on gender issues and although I wouldn’t call SP gay friendly, I believe she was the only candidate with a record of supporting gay rights legislatively.

  154. Abstaining is also a protest vote.

  155. Joanelle, on January 1st, 2009 at 11:40 am Said:
    Pat said: “Someone please point out to me one time that he ever appeared to go out of his way to defend or uphold a principle.”
    OOOO, you’re right – in fact this is the only area in which he has been consistent – he is consistently inconsistent!
    *****************************

    Did B0 take a stand once on that born alive act in Illinois? I haven’t invesitagted this but have wondered if there his being against it was in exchange for something….was this when MO worked for a Chicago hospital? Was it a favor for someone else…maybe a campaign contributor or something? Did he truly take a principled stance?

  156. how about reality based?

  157. Afrocity,

    I’ve always been a very far left liberal. That has never changed. I have always voted on ideology and issues rather than party. In desperation, I swore allegience to the Dems after 1980, when Reagan won MA. This year, the Dems betrayed anyone who ever believed in the New Deal or the New Frontier.

    In my mind Obama is not a “Reagan Democrat.” He is a Reagan Republican. IMHO, the same kinds of people who bought the Presidency for Reagan, Bush and Bush, also bought it for Obama. There literally is no longer a Democratic Pary. Period.

    I have been changed by the events of the past year in that I have realized how little progress we have really made toward women’s equality in the country. That is my focus–not any nonsense about party loyalty.

    As for the arguments about “coming together,” I disagree. I think we need a hell of a lot more divisiveness if we are to prevent our country from becoming a full-on fascist police state. I admire you, Afrocity, because you are truly an independent thinker. Critical thinking is what we need now, not bandwagon thinking.

  158. Bradmays -it has been a long year and I admire you for all the work you have put into the film, and the courage you had to go forward after that terrible incident on the plane. (I listened with shock to your call on Sheri’s blogtalk show)

    I can understand you having doubts, which are evidenced by your use of phrases such as “honor among thieves” and “getting your hands dirty”.

    But you must remember that a liberal credo, does not mean blindly following the Party diktat. Particularly if felt to be corrupt and elitest.

    Palin was liked because of her stance against pork and corruption in her own party.

    McCain at least stood by public finance.

  159. Afrocity – Yes – YOU are right, at least for me – Now I am an independent … that was a HUGE change for me …. it still feels funny …. ..

  160. BB: I agree about “coming together”

    for women, that always means putting our interests aside for the sake of unity. I’m sick of it

  161. kiki,

    Thanks for understanding. I’m fed up with it too. Unity is crap without equality for all.

  162. What PUMA did was profound. There are also consequences that follow action — a reaction. There is a point of no return.
    If you are “leftist” or democrats you are certainly not the same ones you used to be. Whether you want to acknowledge this or not you have changed. Yes the DNC changed but so have we.

    afrocity: I do not agree that there are rigid labels that apply to every situation and candidate. I have always voted Democrat, because those were the candidates that were presented to me that represented the policies I championed (for the most part). Obama does not. He fooled many people into thinking he was a progressive, but if you listened carefully, it was very obvious who/what he is and is not. His attitude toward women and the working class was obvious by his arrogance from Day One. At the Saddleback Forum, when he said he was against gay marriage because “with a man and a woman, God is in the mix,” I was infuriated. Many gay people and their supporters who voted automatically for who the party served up, without doing due diligence (and confused and brainwashed further by the abhorrently irresponsible media) ignored this obvious homophobic answer–and many other signs. HRC does not support gay marriage at this point, but her ACTIONS and words are always full of conviction and compassion toward gay Americans. She does not hesitate when asked about civil rights for gays, marches in pride parades, and proudly does interviews–and she has done so for years.

    I agree that the scales have fallen from my eyes in terms of “Dems Good, Repubs Bad” but I will not follow any dogma. Principles, including those embodied in the Constitution, are living, breathing essences that need to be interpreted and applied to ever-changing circumstances. That is why I am no a fan of Scalia.

  163. Boston Boomer (Blush 😉 you made me as happy as a bowl of clam chowder at Legal Seafood in Copley Square.

  164. The most revealing comment of backtrack that msm never picked up on and most people ignored was
    ” we do not need the people, just get the checks”
    That explains backtrack and the new democratic party.
    I could never be a part of that thinking.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLEGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  165. Unity is crap without equality for all.

    bb: how do people think this is going to happen? It’s such a false concept. Per the example I used with my friends: it’s pro-choice or pro-life, where is the “common ground?” That does not mean, as in the Middle East, you can not broker a resolution, but a principle is not something that is compromised for the sake of anything. It is bedrock. You do not just GIVE away votes so we can all hold hands and pretend we are a family. It’s a big, fat lie. All this wishy-washy “we are the world” baloney is going to blow up in his face when Putin decides to invade another country or India or Pakistan decides they’ve had enough and launch a nuclear attack. Obama is so wet behind the ears, he doesn’t even grasp how dangerous his appeasing attitude can be. Stick your faux unity–I STAND for something.

  166. Afrocity: I LOOOOOVE Legal Seafood. Eat there every time I visit my sister in Beantown.

  167. “fire-2012”
    He seemed to have taken a “real-stand” on an unpopular & in- humane position.
    Seeing him speak on this was the only “passion” I had ever seen from him.
    Not sure “if” the hospital in question was Michelle’s; that would be interesting.

  168. Obama is a war hawk .. he made that clear also .. .. the word is neo lib . They pinned that label on Hillary – then shut up about it .. after he prostituted himself on fisa/and his little bend over to AIRPAC … .. they said ……….awwwwwwwwww….. “he doesn’t mean it” … ” he will be different when he is in office ” ….. I ‘hope’ so, I don’t ‘think’ so.

    I don’t honestly know if there is a anti war faction in the dem party anymore except for Dennis Kucinich … I really don’t … there certainly isn’t one in the repub party ..

  169. Brad: that’s different from considering it “dirty.” We only had a few choices: Obama, McCain, Third Party, NOT, abstinence. Everyone chose based on their own conscience. Of course, it was heartbreaking not to be able to vote for a candidate that I felt passionate and confident about, but I’ve been doing that most of my life, so it is what it is. How does that have anything to do with joining hands with the abusers now because “it’s time to come together?” Even now, many are attacking RD because she was recognized for her work.

  170. Brad no one wAs happy about voting McCain, but it was the most direct way to push back. Yes , repubs represent misogyny as well, but his victory would have ended bot control of the party. Now warren has two parties to choose from, no opposition, and while McCain would have been gone in 4 years the bots might still be hanging on to the party levers for a decade or more. They’re both awful but Obama’s unquestioning apologists and unethical, unprincipled cronies will do more damage ultimately IMO

  171. bradmay
    Who was a perfect choice?
    3rd party candidates did not have a chance and would be one vote against backtrack.
    JOHN McCain is a man with a proven record of putting his country first and working with the opposition. Whether you agreed with all of his postions or not. It was also two votes against backtrack.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  172. ” we do not need the people, just get the checks”

    helenk: I was thinking about that line yesterday. It does say a lot about him, that’s why Rendell leaked it. He doesn’t care about people. He cares about political manipulation to serve his own agenda (ie: himself). It was all about the money, honey.

  173. afrocity, on January 1st, 2009 at 3:38 pm Said:
    Abstaining is also a protest vote.
    …………………………

    Well, half a protest vote.

    GDR so as not to start that math issue again….

  174. Brad – Yes, I think he was an imperfect choice … as I said – he voted with criminals for 6 years …. then , he became more independent in 2007 , when he was ‘a candidate’ , it was too late for him to try & recapture his ‘maverick’ status … 6 years of voting with the thugs … just will not convince anyone of that scthick …

  175. Brad is there ever a perfect choice? Who is perfect? There is an ideal candidate. For me it was Hillary then when she was not the nominee it was McCain.

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

  176. bradmaysfilmmaker, on January 1st, 2009 at 3:51 pm Said:

    “But isn’t it reasonable to suggest that be was, at the very least, an IMPERFECT choice?”

    Agreed, just like if the building is ablaze and the door is blocked, a window is an imperfect choice, but it will do.

  177. brad: i had to put it on a sliding scale of imperfect choices … i felt like i never had a worse choice of candidates in my voting life

  178. …Or you can just stand there and hope the sprinkler system comes on. Or you can jump out the window and show your brains the wonders of concrete.

    (sorry it’s the Chicago morbidity in me)

  179. Seriously: It also was just NOT an option to vote for Obama (for me), because it would have been endorsing all the fraud, abuse, hypocrisy, lies, sexism etc. of his campaign, the media, and the DNC. To me, he is illegitimate, just as Bush was. That will not change. He did not win the nomination in an ethical way, violating our most basic democratic principles. Just because you are not going to “win” a battle, does not mean you do not continue to fight. Ask MLK Jr., Nelson Mandela, the Suffragettes etc. about that. You stay true to your core convictions and “keep going” even if the dogs bark.

  180. Agreed, just like if the building is ablaze and the door is blocked, a window is an imperfect choice, but it will do.

    LOL! I’d rather jump than vote for Obama.

  181. oh that’s interesting, I’m not sure what put me in moderation

  182. RD, I threw my 2 cents worth in over there fwiw.

    Also, are you gonna put up a button on the website showing us as a finalist in the awards? You all deserve to have it prominently displayed here on the site.

  183. This is from Dances with Pumas on PumaPac

    Voting begins on January 5th.
    http://2008.weblogawards.org/site-news/2008-weblog-awards-finalists/

    UppityWoman08 is listed in the Best New Blog category!
    http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/

  184. My vote was a protest vote with a little bit of 30% Solution thrown in. McCain had done a lot for women just with his pick of Sarah Palin, and had promised gender equity in his Cabinet; yet another thing Obama does not give a sh*t about.

    I have awakened to the fact that misogyny is now an acceptable campaign strategy for the Democratic Party. Of course I knew the Repubs had been using it for years to smear HRC, but I didn’t know the Democrats would stoop so low as to use it to promote a man who had no qualifications to speak of and no discernable governing philosophy.

    In 2009 and going forward, I will dedicate myself to eradicating that misogyny. That, and telling the truth about what’s going on in our government (to the extent that we ever really know) will be my political focus.

  185. And frankly, if the dems nominated a racist I wouldn’t be telling African Americans who they’re allowed to acceptably vote for as an anti-racist statement. Vote green, not repub, uh i don’t think so. Likewise when dems nominate someone who embraces misogyny and disenfranchisement, not much moral authority there. Pumas have been the backbone of this party and done the grunt work for years and got screwed by people they trusted and thought were different. If they want to protest in the most direct way possible, Understandable and hard to see the problem. Dems always want us to make a virtue of choosing the lesser of two evils–well, we did and for good reason

  186. I hope I am continued to be welcomed here. I love the friends I have made.

  187. afrocity – why would you even ask that?

    (scratching head)

    Nobody better mess with my afrocity!!!

  188. I guess, every since the nomination as a liberal blog I feel 😦 ….that I would be dishonest if I said Yehhh I am a liberal too!! So I have stated a couple of times that I am not. Maybe PUMA’s like me are not PUMA’s if I am not liberal. I am confused.

  189. O/T, but for an entertaining diversion, head over to TL and read the thread about the Blago “farce”, as BTD has it. Like watching a tennis match among pro and amateur lawyers. BTD seems to have gone off the rails on the Burris appointment, as is his occasional wont. I think his main thrust is limiting the embarrassment quotient for The One. Happily, a number of the usual commenters are not going along.

  190. Afrocity, for my two cents, you will wear out your welcome when the last intertubz burns out. Until then, I wanna be where you are.

  191. Hi All — new post up — sentimental warning! xo LBNYC

  192. afrocity – IMHO, it’s not that everyone that comes here has to be a liberal. It’s just that the basic political bent of the Confluence is liberal. If people who don’t consider themselves liberal like to come here, that’s great.

    For example, I have people who support Obama coming to my teeny site, and sometimes, Republicans. Does that mean I’m a Republican or an Obama supporter? No. It means that they feel comfortable at my site. I’m glad, but I’m still a super-lefty liberal.

  193. brad – for me, there is no equivalency to voting for McPalin and what ObamaNation (DNC, media, voters, etc.) did in the primary. When I watched the clip of your movie that you posted not long ago, I thought that was where you going with the story. Other folks here have made comments about that lack of equivalency….thanks to them.

    In the past I would have called myself a liberal, but now I consider myself to be independent. I don’t want to be bound to an ideology, perhaps just bound by values.

  194. afrocity, I consider myself more a Blue Dog Dem than anything else, but still feel very comfortable here. You should feel that way too.

  195. Sorry RD I am not a neat freak my house is deep cleaned or even dusted only when necessary…I hate to to but sometimes it must be done. I feel if done on a morning /day when I am a little hung over it might make me more careful to keep the place clean

  196. brad
    is that why you posted that nasty shit about the Confluence on your blog-because people here voted for Mccain?

  197. congrats on your nomination. your blog has become one of my all time favorites. it has great writers, keen insights and a place full of humor, and sometimes sadness. but always, a sense of fairplay and can i suggest one thing we support is each vote counts. not thrown out because of party schedules, or half of because of politics, or more of mine to you because you suck, plus you’re a girl.

    i will never again take my ability to vote for granted. not that i ever did, but it has really taken on new meaning for me. thanks again for hosting a place for some rational, meaningful and spirited comments on the state of politics.

  198. Brad,

    It was an imperfect choice. I struggled with it beforehand and have felt the occasional moment of dismay since. I’ve never voted for an anti-reproductive choice presidential candidate before in my life.
    The bottom line is that I voted for McCain/Palin because they listened to me. Obama and the Obamacrat Party told me to sit down and shut up.
    That was unacceptable.

    I agree that Warren might be on the stage if McCain had won. The difference is that McCain would be acting in concert with his convictions and his platform. Obama may be following his convictions but he’s betraying the Democratic platform just as he has done since he introduced race-baiting and gender-bashing into the primaries.
    Obama should’ve just run as the Bush Republican that he is.

  199. brad, out of respect for the people you smeared I won’t post a link here.
    you posted the link along with some nasty comments on Pumapac so don’t play dumb.

  200. Afrocity,

    You’ll always be welcomed here! Not everyone here is a liberal either. You, we love because you’re you!

  201. oh and I missed an unhappy obot who decided to lay an egg here?

    looks like all the aisles are cleaned up now somy virgine eyes will have no obamaganda to weed throught

    thanks again

  202. bradmays–

    Of course McCain was an imperfect candidate. None of the candidates was perfect–not even Hillary. She was, however, hands down the most competent, most knowledgeable and most ethical candidate and therefore in my estimation the best candidate. Or to phrase it in your terms, the least imperfect.

    Unfortunately, we were given only two candidates with a reasonable chance of winning. One was, as you say, imperfect. The other was a walking disaster, a neocon at the head of a ragingly bigoted puer-archy. Until we reform our electoral system, our choices are not likely to improve much.

  203. Afrocity@4:17p
    I would hope that you would stay and understand that a group of people learn from each other when they do not all think alike.
    Most people are libral on some things and conservative on others. By listening to other points of view we all expand our world.
    I have always said I wanted to be 97 years old and still learning something from somebody.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AFROCITY, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  204. Could someone get my comment out of moderation, please?

  205. Halp, I’m in moderation! I think it’s because I used the word “b*goted.”

  206. Out before I could even yell for help! Hats off to the mods!

  207. Thanks!

  208. afrocity, on January 1st, 2009 at 4:02 pm Said:
    …Or you can just stand there and hope the sprinkler system comes on. Or you can jump out the window and show your brains the wonders of concrete.
    (sorry it’s the Chicago morbidity in me)

    *********
    Lol Afrocity, spoken like someone who truly knows downtown Chicago.

    Your comment about the museum intrigued me. You know they had that exhibit they were forced to close in June, because some thought there was an objectionable Palestinian tint.

    I’m wondering if there are some inner workings going on, or something to do the city grants. I’m developing a idea, having to do with groups like MoveOn, and something I remembered from some jewish friends while I was there.

    I’m not a blogger here, but If I had anything to say about having intelligent people giving voice, you’d be at the top of my inclusion list. Heh, even if I am a Liberal.

  209. We are no longer stuck in that mindset.

  210. curious

  211. I notice some people having trouble. I had trouble a minute ago trying to comment. I had to log out of WordPress and back in. Then it was fine.

  212. I am gloriously liberal and voted for McCain and Palin. While I disagreed with them on many issues, I, at least, believed they were honest. I did not and continue to not believe the same of Obama. A person willing to allow others to cheat, lie and smear on their behalf will never willingly be my choice or have my support. It’s that simple.

  213. A liberal definition by JFK ends:

    “Some pundits are saying it’s 1928 all over again. I say it’s 1932 all over again. I say this is the great opportunity that we will have in our time to move our people and this country and the people of the free world beyond the new frontiers of the 1960s.”

    The pendulum had better swing in another direction under Obama.

    If you haven’t read the JFK speech, please do. At least, the man said something worth listening to.

  214. Afrocity-you have something everyone here appreciates- HONESTY!!!

  215. swanspirit: “Hillary will eventually be the de facto president ..
    She will have to be”

    We can only hope. It would be the best thing for our country but it would really piss me off to see her doing all the work and getting none of the credit.

  216. For me, there was absolutely no difficulty in voting for John & Sarah. I believed in their sincerity and love of country. I even believed that didn’t disdain every person they met on the campaign trail as I believed of BO. There was no difficulty for me. Catch me in 2012, if I don’t have a Clinton to vote for, I’ll vote for the Republican.

  217. “Getting my hands dirty” would have meant voting for Obama. I decided to vote for McPalin because my state became a swing state.

    My McPalin vote was an intensely satisfying voting experience. It was my personal act of sedition and it felt good, real good. I will NEVER vote Democratic Party line again.

  218. When I was a Reaganite I was center-right. When I switched (to Clinton) I became center-left. That’s where I’ll stay.

  219. afrocity, on January 1st, 2009 at 4:21 pm Said:

    I hope you in particular will take a look at t the link I just posted.

    I myself am not even sure I am best described as a PUMA.

    Ultimately, though, the labels are not what what matters. It is, as you say, the friendships, and the quality of one’s intent. I hope our nascent friendship grows, and I would not want to continue to visit or contribute to blog where you did not feel entirely welcome.

  220. Brad,

    No one knows why you come here. I’m not personally aware of anything of yours being deleted, but if you insulted a moderator or commenter, that might be the reason.

    Catarina’s comments are factual and were not insulting. She simply called you on what you did. I saw your comments bashing one of our writers at Pumapac also. That is really very poor netiquette.

    I think you have made your points abundantly clear, and there is no need for you to try to push this topic any further. Many commenters have explained to you why they voted as they did–even though they did not need to respond about anything so personal. Please drop the subject.

    The rest of us have moved on to celebrating the new year. I hope 2009 will be happy and successful for you and those close to you.

  221. Brad Mays
    the democratic party no longer represents liberals.
    Donna Bazille with her democrats stay home comment.
    backtrack with his comments we don’t need the people just get the checks and Pa people are bitter, religion clinging, gun toters (paraphrase}.
    Many democrats felt that they deserved better than what the so-called New democratic party was preaching.
    The only way to get the democratic party back on the right path for the people and the country was to have them lose this election. Since that did not happen many former democrats are now independents and will never go back to the democratic party. We will choose candidates that have the best interest of the country and the people as their first priority.
    The one good thing about this selection was that a lot of eyes were opened. There will more people taking a good long look at who runs for office in this country from local to national.
    The media is now under scrutiny and maybe the truth will be reported again after a long vacation.
    Women will no longer accept being second class citizens and being trashed for having a brain and knowing how to use it.
    Things will never be the same in this country again.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM, AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  222. why am I in moderation? I don’t think I said anything wrong.

  223. Brad,

    I’m not dismissing you. As I just told you, I have not personally deleted any comments of yours. You dominated this thread for some time, and many commenters interacted politely with you. For the rest of us this topic is exhausted. If you want to continue to try to engage people about it, you should move up to the new thread.

    But our commenters are not required to explain themselves to you and in my opinion, the topic has been as fully explored as it is going to be. That is all I said. If you feel like interacting with the commenters who are here, why not join in what they are discussing?

  224. Helen, I’ll be glad to check. BRB.

  225. Comments are closed. New thread is open above.

Comments are closed.