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About Roe

Disclaimer: I’m pro choice so don’t come for me. 

The Supreme Court, which was the maniacal focus of decades of Republican ire on the subject of abortion, appears ready to overturn Roe or at least severely curtail it.

Yesterday, WaPo had a companion piece to it’s headline story that showed how abortion is handled in other countries, including countries that we have all thought were the most progressive countries in the world. The laws in countries like Sweden and the Netherlands are much more restrictive that the US. The cutoff for getting an abortion is something like 12-20 weeks. After the cutoff, you need to get an exception from a panel of doctors. Presumably, if you or the fetus have health issues or defects, the doctors will allow an abortion.

So far, I hadn’t heard any complaints from the women in countries like Sweden or The Netherlands that these restrictions were unreasonable. And I would have to agree. 15 weeks is a reasonable cutoff. You may not know you’re pregnant at 6 weeks but at 15 weeks, almost everyone knows. Don’t pull out some statistic that says 95% of women don’t know they’re pregnant at 15 weeks because we all know that it’s not true. Nor can you say that for some cosmically unfathomable reason, AMERICAN women are gynecologically different and or their brains do not recognize pregnancy before the 16th week, 2days.

So, if the court came back and said, right, we think we should restrict abortion to 15 weeks and after that, you need to get a doctor’s note, I’d be ok with that. It would be great if that meant that some religious institutions and family run businesses would drop their absurd opposition to comtraceptives and that some pharmacists would stop making life changing decisions for women who absolutely do not under any circumstances want babies period.

The thing is, we KNOW that’s never going to happen. The religiously motivated are never going to put down this sword until abortion is banned everywhere in America. But they will be temporarily satisfied if Roe is no longer the law of the land. No federal standards for abortion seekers or doctors. yes, yes, it *does* make women unequal in some states. But there will always be a New York or California or Oregon to go to if you can pay for the flight and accommodations.

It is going to suck everywhere else. And I can also see the court including the ability of doctors and pharmacists to conscientiously object to prescribing birth control or performing abortions in states where it will still be legal.

This is what the Pro motherhood voters have always wanted. They are not pro-life or they’d also have a problem with the death penalty and gun deregulation. Those things seem to have loopholes for them, loopholes that they will not grant women.

It is past time for us to discuss what they really want. They want all women to fulfill their divine natures as mothers. They want them and not the male partners to take responsibility for their sexual behavior. They want them to give up everything for the children. They think, erroneously, that the only reason why women want to abort is because motherhood is difficult. Maybe they’ll throw a few diapers their way after the baby is out. But in general, women are supposed to be mothers, whether or not they actually want children.

You shall have the children and you shall be shamed for having them when you aren’t married. You shall be a burden to your family. Your life goals will be truncated so you can stay home, possibly in poverty for the rest of your life, and shoulder the responsibility for your actions. That’s God’s plan for you.

With that in mind, and let’s not kid ourselves, that’s the end goal, does anyone really believe that 15 weeks with medical exemptions after that, will be acceptable?

We know it won’t.

Now, we have to figure out who benefits from this? Well, it’s not going to be women or their families. It’s not going to be women at work who may not be able to do their jobs if Roe is retired. I can’t think of a single entity who will benefit from this except American businesses that may use this as a back door way of keeping wages low. Women of child bearing years may be relegated to jobs with less responsibility and fewer promotional opportunities. They will be automatically mommy tracked.

That’s where we are.

Oh, and religious institutions may find themselves facing an exodus of women from their pews. Plus, Republican governors may face a backlash next year and congressional candidates like Marjorie Taylor Greene just *might* start looking like the crazy people they actually are.

In summary, overturn Roe and you will get:

Forced motherhood

More widely applied automatic mommy tracking

Less money in the family household over time.

It’s gonna happen, people. That’s what they voted for.

18 Responses

  1. Justice Barrett suggested that if a woman didn’t want to take care of the baby which Barrett and her colleagues want to force the mother to have, she could go to an adoption clinic and leave the baby on the doorstep. What a chilling and religiously unyielding concept, which of course is Barrett in full. Maybe she would like the mother to wear a scarlet “M’ on her clothes for the rest of her life, or maybe an “F” for “fornicator.”

    They don’t care about “life,” wait until they limit the right of the government to create vaccine mandates. And yes, they want no restrictions on the right of people to take weapons into gatherings like schools or churches, and kill many people. Their cloak is “freedom,” but they do not want a woman to have the freedom to have an abortion. And they’ll go after Griswold, too, and limit the right to obtain contraception.

    It probably doesn’t do much good to plumb the depths of the minds of these zealots, but I have always thought that what they really want to do is to limit sexual activity to conception only, which is what the Church mandated for centuries. Have sex, and unintentionally become pregnant, and you will pay penance for life. What a terrible thing to subject a child to. And of course we all know that the zealots’ concern for life stops at birth, they have no interest in anything to help children born into poverty, or their parents. I guess it’s impossible for public officials to explicitly attack institutionalized religious zealotry, but I am sure that the Founders would have.

    And this “leave it to each state to determine if women have a right to abortion,” an utter abdication of the Supreme Court’s responsibility to protect individual rights on a national basis. Can a state decide if it can cut off people’s hands for pickpocketing? Throw people into debtors’ prisons? Pass laws restricting the freedom of the press or the freedom to assemble? It is utterly contrary to the principles of our democracy, and beyond appalling that the Supreme Court is now filled with people who are so political and cowardly that they are essentially throwing out the entire principle of guaranteed rights for all people, stated in the Constitution, when it suits them.

    • Barrett is a monster. There is no other way to put it. She is one of the evil Aunts from the Handmaid’s Tale.

  2. This might be a good time to:

    •Abolish the filibuster

    •Codify Roe through passage of the Woman’s Health Protection Act

    •Expand the Supreme Court

    • Given that we’re pretty much guaranteed to lose both Houses in the midterms, I’m not sure I’d favor total abolition of the filibuster. We might need it when Trump gets reelected.

      • Okay, then reform the filibuster.

        Norm Ornstein has written extensively on various ways it can be done.

        • Absolutely. There are a lot of ways to do this (return to the original concept of the filibuster where you actually had to keep talking to hold the floor, require successively smaller majorities for cloture as a filibuster proceeds, etc), without eliminating the filibuster altogether.

  3. If they were really pro-life, they’d be pushing for single-payer.

  4. Before I go off, understand this is not me “coming at you”. I’m just furious and venting everywhere I can right now. 🙂

    15 weeks is not “reasonable”. All those countries with 15 week deadlines have vastly better systems for accessing medical care and none of the extra roadblocks many US states put up around abortion like TRAP laws, waiting periods, and mandatory “counseling” (aka state-mandated lies). And often public insurance systems that actually cover abortions.

    Anyway, viability isn’t the point. The point is under no other circumstances can you be forced to use your body to keep another person alive. You cannot be forced to donate an organ. You can’t even be forced to donate blood. If you woke up tomorrow and someone had (without your consent) somehow hooked up a 60 year old to your body so your heart, lungs, kidneys, etc were keeping them alive…you’d call the cops and they’d be charged with kidnapping and assault at a minimum. Why should a fetus have rights that no one else has after being born?

    Not to mention that even after you die, they can’t take your organs to save another person unless you consented in life. They want fetuses to have more rights than any other group of people…and women to have less rights than a dead body.

    • I don’t think waiting periods are useful either but the Netherlands has a five day waiting period.
      And yes, universal access to contraception and dialing back the religious encroachment on sexual “morals” would make abortions a lot less common

    • I agree with everything you said about being kidnapped by a fetus but I don’t have a problem with 15 weeks. That’s roughly 2.5 times more weeks than you currently get in Texas. And I don’t want to hear about American women being too stupid to know they’re pregnant before 15 weeks. The vast majority know a couple days after they miss their period. OTC pregnancy tests are that good. 15 weeks is plenty of time to make up your mind. Not only that but cutting down the amount of time will most likely result in more medical abortions. If you can’t make up your mind before then, and there’s no medical reason for terminating, then you’d better have a good reason to get your doctor to write you a permission slip.
      The point is, and I think we have failed to acknowledge it for a couple decades now, we are not fighting fetuses. We are fighting enforced motherhood. Pregnancy is a temporary condition. Parenthood is forever. The choice to be or not be a parent is what they’re after. there are a lot of religious people who don’t like working mothers. Maybe they think working outside the home is for men. I’m betting a lot of men who weren’t thinking this through signed up for this as well. Less competition at work. It’s going to backfire on them. Big time.

      • I think it’s more a matter of immiserating the working class whenever possible. Rich women will always be able to get abortions.

        • Ironically those working class women are the ones that are going to suffer the most but yet they are the ones voting for all this.

      • You can be fine with 15 weeks all you want. Doesn’t change the fact that a lot of women are not ok with their right to control their body ending at 15 weeks and 1 day. (Plus we all know taking the time limit down to 15 weeks isn’t their end game.)

        No one should have the right to live off of my body. No one does under any other circumstances. A fetus should be no different and the number of weeks it has been living off my body already shouldn’t make a difference either. If I agree to donate blood for you today, that doesn’t mean I’m agreeing to do it again every day for the next 9 months. And even if I did tell you I would donate blood every day…I’m allowed to change my mind about that at any time. Consent is not a permanent state of being. And that’s probably what this is all about. A lot of people, especially men, and especially conservatives, do not like the idea of women having the right to say no. They really don’t believe our consent matters…about abortion, about sex, about anything.

        Wow, now I’m even more depressed.

        • I’m so sorry. I just can’t go with the whole nine months. I have a cutoff at viability. 15 weeks to 20 weeks works for me. After that, you should need a panel of doctors anf medical ethicists to write the note.
          I get it that you may change your mind after 15-20 weeks. I get it. But like I said, pregnancy is a temporary condition. If you made it to 7 months, I’d have trouble with you deciding to pull the plug. It’s not about conservatism to me at that point, it’s about restraint. We can do whatever we want but we shouldn’t always exercise that right. The kid is close to being done. It’s less like anticipating a miscarriage and more like something else. I stop short of calling it murder and you don’t have to have any emotional connection to it but if you found a 7 month old baby naked and crying on the street, you probably wouldn’t run over it. My guess is you recognize that is in need of assistance and life sustaining actions. Aborting after viability is like running it over. Your mileage may vary.

          • No pun intended.

          • 15-20 weeks still hasn’t actually reached “viability” though.

            The youngest baby ever born that survived was at 21 weeks. He’s about 16 months old now and he’s on a feeding tube and still needs supplemental oxygen through a canula. Also needs speech therapy and physical therapy. (Also, for the record, he had a twin sister who did not survive.)

            In general babies born that early have a really low change of surviving and a high chance of all sorts of problems. According to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, babies born before 23 weeks have a survival rate of just 5% to 6%. Of those that do survive, 98% to 100% have substantial complications and/or disability.

            Honestly, I get where people are coming from re: viability. Even if I disagree on principle. But 15 weeks ain’t it.

            Btw, I snorted at the pun whether intended or not. 🙂

  5. Oh, it’ll be tragic, all right.

    Tragic for the Grim Reaper Party (fka GOP), which–if the Supreme Joke majority is actually stupid enough to overturn RvW–will then kiss the vast majority of female swing voters, and many of the male ones, good-bye forever.

    They can’t win the White House, or majorities in Congress, without those swing voters.

    Plus…

    They don’t seem to realize that a disproportionate majority of the vaccine refuseniks are their voters, which will diminish their vote totals even further.

    Welp, Corona-chan hasn’t been nicknamed “the Darwin virus” for nothing.

    GOP Bull Elephant: I’m gonna rape that giant spinning fan with the razor-sharp blades, and none of you soft inferior weaklings can stop me!!!1!

    Me (in Willy Wonka voice): Stop. Don’t. Come back. 😈

  6. But we are not focusing on the fact that the Supreme Court is not going to say, “Well, 15 weeks, but no less.” It is going to let the Mississippi law stand, and then hide the rest is wordy miasma as they now always do. It will not prevent another state from cutting the time to ten weeks or eight. Texas is four weeks? I forget. They let that law stand, because they said it was too complex to hear. It is virtually guaranteed that other states will test this, and one may likely ban all abortions. If the Supreme Court doesn’t hear it, as these cowards likely won’t, that will stand, too. They know exactly what they are doing.

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