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Be bold and kill the bill

David Pakman describes what’s at stake:

The LAST thing we need is another idiotic Obamacare type program with so many frustrating holes and hoop jumping. Even the climate change section has been stripped out. It’s like America has opted out of the 21st century.

I’m pretty sure that working class people would prefer nothing than some stupid gutted bill that will linger for generations like the smell of a fetid dead animal and do nothing to improve their lives or the effects of climate change.

Do it right or just kill it. Make Manchin and Sinema the only Democrats who vote for it.

And may Joe Manchin develop an anaphylactic reaction to coal dust.

43 Responses

  1. Well, I have not studied the bill in depth, but I think there are some good things in it. I don’t think that Biden is given to overstatement, but he said today that the elections of 2022 and 2024 are at stake. I think he is right–not that getting these passed will guarantee wins, but not getting them passed will leave us nothing to run on, particularly with Republicans trying to fix elections, and run on culture issues and lies..

    Obama at the time of ACA had bout a thirty-vote margin in the House and ten in the Senate. Biden has three in the House, zero in the Senate. The only bills he can pass are on spending. Everything else will be filibustered. If the Republicans take over either branch, he gets nothing through.

    To me, it seems that we must pass these bills, and we can build on them. To not do so will have 90% of the media saying that the administration is a failure, and we will then lose in the midterms, and that may well be the end of the democracy. There is no alternative to those two choices, I think. The Democratic Party would die on the field of its own various factions. Pass these, and maybe we win seats, and we then can pass better bills. At least it would be possible.

    • The biggest signal to the country about how dire the situation has become would be to pull this bill. I’m sorry, William but passing it would just reinforce how pointless the grid lock is. It would be more BAU
      You need to demonstrate in as clear a way as possible that absolutely nothing of value will ever get done until there are more forward thinking legislators in Congress. We can’t afford to have any more Manchins and Sinemas, and prior to that, Liebermans, gumming up every possible initiative that would improve lives.
      Also, we are 6-7% short of having a critical mass of women in Congress. We have got to fix this.

      • Sowwies, RD, but I’m going with Wills on this one.

        I see it as “both-and”, not “either-or”. We need to take what we can get now, AND demonstrate as clearly as possible that we can’t get more done until we reduce the Elephascists to a clear minority status in both houses of Congress.

        You’re correct that more women would probably help, as long as they aren’t MTG types.

        The Elephascists keep running this okey-doke successfully on a certain percentage of White America (note for any new readers: I am a white American): They wreck the country, then block, whenever possible, every Democratic effort to fix the damage, then run on the Democrats’ inability to fix all the Elephascist damage in 2 or 4 years.

      • Democrats refused to vote for carbon bills in 2010 because they were not perfect. We got nothing in 11 years except more carbon in the atmosphere.

        Begala told President Clinton not to push any health care bill that did not cover everyone. Unfortunately, President Clinton listened. We finally got a more flawed law under President Obama, but at what cost?

        If Democratic congress reps have nothing to point to as a success, we will get Republicans in both houses and President Biden will be hamstrung. That sets up Trump for a big comeback.

        I understand the sentiment, RD, but I do side with William and IVW on this one. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

  2. “To me, it seems that we must pass these bills, and we can build on them”

    Just like the ACA and the public option magic sparkle pony. I’m with RD. Pull the plug and put this thing out of its misery.

    As an alternative, I’d suggest that the President veto every single piece of legislation that crosses his desk until the original bill passes. Now *that* would be playing hardball.

  3. Time to take away those 2 Senators power. Make them leave or do the right thing. Make them caucus somewhere more in tune with their corruption. Imagine what these 2 will be like in the GOP. No power and always on the verge of trumps little insane tweets. At least the Democrats will make themselves look powerful. Instead of this namby pamby obsequiousness to the corrupt tools. I know we lose the majority, but what good is it if you need 60 votes to pass anything. It would show that the Dems are willing to sacrifice faux power to do the right thing. Got to be better than this pandering to twits.

    • I’m curious about how one would “take away their power”. Tell them to stop putting a “D” by their names because it’s false advertising? The Democratic Party isn’t legally a membership organization – it’s just a label you give yourself. Take away the label, kick them out of the caucus, and they still have a vote on the floor (and they’ll still vote like Republicans).

      Kick them off the committees, to be sure (something Schumer actually has the power to do), but that just means they have to wait until bills are on the floor to work their mischief.

      Primary them when they’re up for reelection? Certainly. But that’s 2024 for both of them. Anyone who primaries Manchin from the left will be opposed by the DSCC, because progressive candidates are always opposed by the DCCC and DSCC, and because “Manchin is the only Democrat who can win in West Virginia” (even though he’s really a Republican).

      I suppose DOJ could stop slow-walking the racketeering case against Manchin’s daughter and one might hope to thereby catch him with his hand in the cookie jar, but I’m not optimistic.

      That’s all I can think of. Did you have something else in mind?

      • They have power in the Democratic Party. They determine everything that can be done. They veto everything the Democrats want to do. Is that power? They would have none in the GOP! If they are not Democrats they would not be assigned to any committees by them. They would have to rely on the GOP for committee assignments. Good luck with that. They would be pariahs if not for the Democrats. Tell them to suck it up,and vote for what all other Democrats want or get out.

  4. Some thoughts from a blog where I hang out a lot lately (maybe because it’s NOT a TurdPress blog, so I can freely post images and links there…):

    https://establishmentbar.blogspot.com/2021/10/its-okay-to-be-scared.html

  5. Candidate Joe Biden reassuring corporate donors at a fundraiser in June, 2019:

    “No one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change [if he is elected]. If I win this nomination, I won’t let you [corporate donors] down. I promise you.”

    Nancy Pelosi at a meeting with House Democrats on Monday evening, October 25th, 2021:

    “Embrace this [gutted Build Back Better bill] and have a narrative of success.”

    Steny Hoyer speaking at the above House meeting:

    “If we don’t act like we are winning, the American people won’t believe it either.”

    So our Democratic leaders are acting in “a narrative” about “success” and “winning” that they don’t really believe in “either” but since “no one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change”, it’s all good.

    This is where we are and this is what we get. Kill the bill.

    • NO argument… but how exactly would these billionaires standard of living change if they had to pay 100M in taxes?

      I am not of the opinion that moving lower on the Forbes 100 would lower your standard of living at all.

      • Especially since they wouldn’t move lower – their relative positions would be unchanged. It’s graded on a curve, after all ;-).

  6. Doesn’t anyone on this blog except William and myself fear total Dem loss of the House and Senate if this is not passed?

    • Not if they’re going to vote like Republicans, I don’t. I care about policy more than labels,

      • Do you really think that these bills are Republican bills? They represent the most impressive effort to improve domestic America since LBJ and of course the greatest Democratic Prreident, FDR. Is it the bill we wanted? No, but for 50 senators and 220 or so House votes, it is rather amazing. And you would rather throw it away and get nothing, and hope that in twenty years or so, we might have a chance to do something?

        Pramila Jayapal, head of the Progressive Caucus, is for the bill, though she would have certainly liked more. Speaker Pelosi is favorable toward it, plus 48 Democratic senators. I trust her, and I trust Ron Klain, Biden’s Chief of Staff. They are not closet Republicans.

        The people voting for and supporting this bill figure that it is amazing that we even got this far. If we did not win those two Georgia Senate sets, McConnell would not have brought any Democratic bill to the floor, and even if one got there, they would all vote against it. If Manchin, as upsetting and frustrating as he is,were a Republican, we would get nothing through at all. I do not possibly see how not getting this through is a good thing. We are never going to fill the Congress with Sanders types, they do not win, except in very favorable districts. I really want us to have a chance to keep the House and Senate. This may not do it, but losing the bill will doom us. I don’t think there is any second chance here, not unless we can show that we can pass bills to help people. Somehow gain two Senate seats next year and keep the House, and we can pass a better bill, and we won’t need Manchin’s vote, but we do now.

        • William, what is in the $1.75 trillion Build Back Better reconciliation bill? What is in the bipartisan infrastructure bill?

          • Not much of what we ran and won on, that’s for damned sure. And can we please, for the love of all that is holy, *please* stop calling it a $1.75 trillion bill. It’s a $175 billion annual appropriation which can always be removed in successive years. About a fourth of the defense budget. There’s nothing in this bill that can commit the government to the full ten-year expenditure irrevocably.

            It’s just too bad we can’t figure out a way for Boeing or General Dynamics to cash in on it. It would pass for sure then.

          • Prop, I know the bill is gutted at this point and that it is just $175 billion a year (maybe). It’s definitely not the Second Coming of the New Deal or the Great Society. Far from it.

            William seems to have bought into the “narrative” that BBB (and the sham infrastructure bill) are big wins for the Democratic Party. I was wondering why he thinks so. What is in either bill that is really going to help ordinary people?

  7. The Build Back Better package that was originally agreed upon by Democrats in Congress was $3.5 trillion over 10 years ($350 billion per year). It has now been cut to $1.75 trillion over 10 years ($175 billion per year).

    The following have been totally removed or drastically cut back from the original $3.5 trillion (over 10 years) bill:
    •No paid family or medical leave
    •No expansion of Medicare to include dental or vision care
    •No authority for Medicare to negotiate lower prescription drug prices
    •No Clean Electricity Performance Program
    •No methane fee on oil and gas producers
    •No raise on the corporate tax rate from 21% to 26.5%
    •No raise on the individual tax rate from 37% to 39.6% for those with annual incomes over $400,000
    •Reduction of the extension of the enhanced child tax credit from 5 years to 1 year (one year!)
    •Reduction of funding for home and community based services (HCBS) for the elderly and disabled from $400 billion to $150 billion over 10 years (HCBS allow the elderly and disabled to remain in their homes rather than go into nursing homes. This paltry amount, over 10 years, comes during the time when Baby Boomers are going to be needing more care.)

    I would be more than happy to support the $3.5 trillion BBB bill as it was originally agreed upon. The current bill is roadkill. It will not improve the average American’s life, so how will it help Democrats to keep the House and Senate? Or the White House?

    Restore and pass the $3.5 trillion BBB package!

  8. I spent so much time researching and writing my comments today that I forgot to take my anti-seizure medication this morning. Not a good life choice for a person with a brain tumor.

    As RD would say, later taters.

  9. Fun fact number one: one *day* last week, Elon Musk’s net worth increased by more than the amount of annual climate spending in the original bill.

    Fun fact number two: While those opposing the original $350 billion/year bill claim to object to its cost, some of the measures that have been removed (like Medicare drug pricing) would save the government billions

    • Fun fact one (b): Musk pays an effective tax rate of 3.3%.

    • Fun fact number three: When Sinema ran for Senate in 2018, her net worth was -$32,000. That’s right, it was negative. Now it’s over $1,000,000. Not bad for three years’ work.

      • Fun fact number four:

        All of those other Fun Facts are only symptoms.

        THIS is the disease.

        Until enough non-elite white Americans, in enough of the necessary states, wise the hell up, OR non-elite white Americans become a minority in enough of the necessary states, we’re stuck with settling for crumbs.

  10. I’m upgrading my Windows 10 laptop to Windows 11, so I had to set up an older laptop to go on the Web, so it’s too late for the weekly Beatles show, but:

    Friday nights 8 PM – 12 AM North American Central Time:

    Beaker Street, the legendary rock radio program, has returned. Iconic host Clyde Clifford has returned from his medical absence.

    It can be found at http://arkansasrocks.com/

    If you can’t catch Beaker Street live, MP3 files are available soon afterward at https://beakerstreetsetlists.com/

  11. Well, I agree with William here. First off when is the 3.5 trillion going to get passed? Nobody can answer that I bet. I honestly think Dems should really just keep passing smaller broken down bills with extremely popular items and have everybody go on record

    • BUT… it’s not like the Republicans aren’t already on record. They have shown that they will vote for NOTHING substantial proposed by a Democrat. They won’t even vote to ensure that everyone can vote, they are less than worthless. They vote against everything unless it is a tax cut, and those only go to the richest and the corporations. I am fed up with them, and the Democrats who side with them.

      • I am not defending anything the GOP does. They really don’t care about governing. It’s all about grifting which is what their tax cuts are about.

        • It’s all about grifting which is what their tax cuts are about.

          And yet the Democratic majorities refuse to raise taxes. I don’t care if they are slim majorities or not, Obama had a way better case in his first two years and yet did nothing good. It almost looks like the Democrats really think taxes are too high. GREED is ingrained in the nature of a large portion of the American people.

          • This is what the Sandernistas do not understand.

            Many Democrats and Democratic-leaning Independents are NOT socialists, or even “liberals” (by the USAmerican definition of that word).

            They like CRAPitalism well enough (or they fear the only alternative would be something like the Khmer Rouge), but they don’t want to live in Jim Crow Gilead. If moderate Republicans still existed in sufficient numbers to control the GOP, many of those people would vote Republican.

          • Let me add: I would support probably at least 90% of what the Sandernistas want–but there are not enough people like me out here to be reached.

            (Ivory-billed woodpeckers are rare, after all.) 😉

    • ” I honestly think Dems should really just keep passing smaller broken bills”

      FIFY.

      Snark aside, which “popular items” should be in these bills? Paid family medical leave? Adding dental, vision, and hearing to Medicare? Allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices (just like every private insurer in the country)? Climate mitigation (so NYC, Boston, Miami, and Houston don’t end up under water in a few decades)? Extension of the child tax credit? Raising the minimum wage? Because we’ve lost *all* of those. Every single one.

      What’s left?

      • Very well. What do you think we can do instead, unless and until enough of the dumb-asses mentioned in the following quote die off?

  12. Is anyone here who supports the current BBB bill toothless because they can’t afford dental care? Or have a loved one who doesn’t have teeth? How about vision? Anyone who can’t see because they can’t afford glasses? Anyone without home care for an elderly relative or disabled child? Anyone who can’t afford life-saving medication?

    “Let them gum cake.”

  13. And now for something completely off topic:

  14. I’ll try that again.

    And now for something completely off topic:

  15. I can’t remove my extra DXM post. If this were a Disqus blog, I could.

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