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This sounds hinky

So, if he decides to give the Russians the keys to the voting machines and says “Make it so I win”, that’s ok?

What if he decides to send campaign ads as Presidential Alerts to our phones?

What if he decides that WordPress or Twitter is seditious for anyone not on his donor list? Can he shut down our voices if he decides on his own that he’s the best guy to be president indefinitely?

I only ask.

I keep coming back to the viral mutation hypothesis. They’re going to mutate themselves into extinction at the rate they’re going and the whole world is watching.


More and better examples:

This is what Putin does. This is what Yanukovich did to Yulia Tymoshenko.

Do we really believe Trump wouldn’t do this to Joe Biden if he reasons to himself that he would be better for America than a “corrupt” former VP?

This is EXACTLY where Trump was heading.

No, no, don’t you “nothing is going to change, nothing to see here” people shake your head and roll your eyes.

It happens in other countries that Trump is getting his help from. If he is not reined in, this is what he’ll be tempted to do.

Do you REALLY want to see that thought become the parent of his deeds? He doesn’t respect limits.

21 Responses

  1. I think that Dershowitz is so enraptured with himself and getting a stage, that he has no ability any longer to do what any decent lawyer learns in theory or in practice, which is to consider the logical extension of his arguments. But it doesn’t matter, because he’ll say something completely different in a different situation, as with Clinton, whose impeachment he supported.

    On the more serious point, yes, we are heading toward a dictatorship where brute power is used to squelch any dissenting argument. Now it looks like Bolton will not be able to have his book published unless he takes out all the anti-Trump parts. If he tries to publish it, the threat is arrest by Barr’s DOJ for treason, “releasing top secret information.” And watch for all the news media being arrested in Trump’s second term, if he gets it. Maybe they should have thought of that before gleefully attacking Hillary every day in 2016.

    That the Senators are selling out the independence of their own body, does not seem to occur or matter to them. I think that their first and only goal is to win by using any brute force available to them, and they count on Democrats never doing what Trump and they do, because Democrats are not fascists. So it’s what they call in Vegas, a “free roll” for them It is a frightening moment, and they want it to be, perhaps to discourage people from fighting against them in the election process. Do not forget that we won by 9 million votes or so in 2018 races, and just won the governorship of Tennessee.

    • But would those 9 million votes have gotten us the Presidency via the EC? I recall you citing an article that said that Dems may have a 5 M lead in the popular vote in 2020 and still lose the EC. Jimmy the votes in the right places and we are left with the bestest asshole, again, again. I feel like a mouse in maze with a cat at the center.

      The pretzel logic of the Repubs always makes them the winner no matter how obvious the hypocrisy or the lies.

      • Like the original fascists, our fascist-wannabes will prove themselves nitwits if they choose to make this a contest of literal force (by blocking all means of peaceful change).

        There are more of us than of them, and they are disproportionately old.

      • Yes, the EC is now set up in favor of Republicans. But Democrats won the governorship of Kansas not too long ago, and we hold Tennessee and Virginia. This certainly doesn’t translate into presidential wins i those first two states, but it will help to limit some of the voter suppression which is also a big edge for Republicans. I had not realized that Florida has this rule which should be unconstitutional, that whichever party holds the governorship gets to have their candidates listed first on the ballot in every precinct. Some think this gives them a 4-5% advantage going in. We could have had the governorship had Sanders not jumped int there to support Gillum over Graham in the primary. So there are possibilities.

        We need new states. Arizona is promising. This is why we need to run someone who might take a state like that. We need to try to win Georgia. The Midwest is somehow turning more conservative, though we did win governorships in Wisconsin and Michigan in the last election. And not to keep repeating this, but we need to run on a platform which will garner enough independent voters to win enough of the swing state. This is not selling out the party to conservatives, but it is breaking the grip of the Far Right in enough time to maybe save some of the district courts before they are filled with rightwingers for a half century, and just possibly get back the Supreme Court in the next four years.

  2. Clearly, Trump will never be impeached again. So apparently he has carte blanche to do anything he wants. The Senate will not stop him. His Justice Department will not stop him. If he starts throwing people–rivals, media, anyone who criticizes him–in jail or dungeons, there is nothing to stop him. If he takes all the appropriations made by Congress and uses them for the wall or to go golfing,, nothing would stop him..

    The Republican senators could have gotten the acquittal without even contesting anything. They could have stopped the witnesses by just making the other arguments about too much time, etc. But perhaps because Trump insisted on it, maybe also pushed by his lawyers. they had to put Dershowtiz up there to spout his absolutely horrifyingly wrong theories about how a President can never be impeached for any actions he took to secure winning an election, if he thought it was important to the country that he win. This is a hundred bridges too far. The Republicans let or encouraged a witness who just set out a legal theory that the President is a dictator, at least when it is a President that the witness likes.

    Now, there are all sorts of crackpot theorists around, though not so many in law. But those who are should never be given this kind of public forum. And the Republicans senators are so sick and twisted that they encouraged him by continually asking him questions. This is the culmination of fifty years or so of increasing Republican totalitarian ideology, and the addiction to getting their way at all costs. Now, Dershowitz”s fascistic opinions would not matter so much, except that, 1). The President who is hearing it, wants to be Hitler, and 2) the courts are being stacked with unqualified jurists who will act as a rubber stamp for a dictator. Today is probably the darkest day in American political history. We’ve got the vote, possibly, and we’ve got whatever economic pressure we can exert, which is not inconsiderable, if we figure that out. Other than that, we can hope that Canada invades us.

    • Today, for the first time I’m legit terrified.

      • Nah. Benedict Donald has neither the brains nor the guts to make himself a dictator. He serves Putin, but he is no Putin himself.

        Putin would never have chosen Trump if Trump were an American Putin. Putin wants a pliant stooge, not someone smart enough to maybe double-cross Putin, as Hitler double-crossed Stalin in June 1941.

        The disturbing thing is what this says about the state of our Republic, that Trump could “win” the Presidency at all, and also what could happen if a “Smart Trump” came along.

        As for the Fascist Society Federalist Society judges, we only need to take back the other two branches, then just appoint enough extra judges to outvote them–also, we need to fund extensive research into their pasts. Powerful conservative white men are criminals by nature–surely they have some financial and/or sexual scandals which slipped under the radar, which could be used to impeach them, or quietly blackmail them into resigning their offices.

      • I am not the slightest fan of A.B. Stoddard, but she was very upset at her rRepublican Party, at Dershowitz, the whole thing. If they lose enough people like her, they may not be able t o win. David Jolly, who is not all that accurate, thinks that Republicans will have a big celebration after the acquittal and the SOTU, but that they will get destroyed in November if they insist on no witnesses. Such comments are not all that heartening, but a bit.

        Our problem, along with the other things we see going on, is that we have no inspiring Presidential candidate to carry the torch against the fascists. The face of our party is going to be someone with significant electoral flaws. The segmenting of our party into one where there is this intransigent Left which hates everyone who is not Bernie Sanders or AOC, and then a rather insipid middle, is a big problem. The Left either is working for Russia and the fascists, or it is so full of itself and stupid that it would rather keep losing to them. I see various Democrats from the House or Senate who seem better than most of the candidates who are actually running, but of course the right-wing media machine would go after them. Hannity actually called Schiff a sociopath yesterday, which shows you where we are with the formerly far right, now insanely fascistic part of the country.

        The key, such as it is, is for Democrats to hammer away at the right and important points, and to tell the country what the Republicans are. I might start calling them The Fascist Party. Oh, the media would scream, but it might get through. Republicans are the enemy, and they should be given ho credit for anything. People need to be scared, and they need to be active, and not fooled by the Republican media noise machine. People might possibly figure this out at some point. And Democrats have to stop trying to be scrupulously fair about everything, it really does them little good. That is why I am starting to favor Bloomberg, who is not at all ideal on some issues, but very good on some, and who is just going to spend billions of dollars to overpower Republican dark money. We could do much worse than a few years of Bloomberg, and all the money he would infuse into our party in the states. I would certainly take other candidates instead, if they only could win.

        P.S. If I ever see Chris Matthews on the TV again, it will be because I hit the channel at the wrong time, and I will immediately get his face off the screen. This is the guy who had the “swiftboaters” on TV every day during the last two months of the Kerry election. campaign. He did everything he could to attack and malign Hillary from the day she first ran in 2008. Now he tells us that it looks like Trump is going to win, and that “there’s got to be something fishy with Hunter Biden in Ukraine.” I do not know if it is some sort of Catholic thing, he feels he needs to suffer, or is it that he just likes to act important. He spent he last five minutes of each of his daily shows for three years bemoaning Trump, and now wants to tell everyone that he is doing a brilliant job in insuring another four years. I don’t know if Matthews is crazy, or just wants to act as if he is smarter than everyone else. But his hatred of the Clintons suffuses every aspect of his commentary, and he is worthless to our cause. Take him, Matthews, Williams, Mitchell off the air, and we would be a lot better off in combating Republican on-air propaganda. On the other hand, then we’d be left with lightweights like Tur and Hunt. The best thing about MSNBC is the guests.

    • William, I think Canada is more likely to build a wall to keep us out than to invade.

  3. How about saying this: “The Republican Party just gave us the first impeachment trial in this country’s history which did not have any witnesses. Every American knows that this country was founded on principles of justice, and having witnesses at trial is a major part of that. This Republican Party has become a party of authoritarians who trample on human rights and dignity every day. They like to call themselves ‘Conservatives,” but the only thing they care about conserving i s their power. They don’t want to conserve the environment, clean air, safe drinking water and food. They don’t want to conserve Constitutional principles like trials with witnesses, or separation of powers, or the right to vote, unless you are one of them.They want a country where a small group of very wealthy people controls the lives of everyone else. They want medieval Europe, where they are the aristocrats, and everyone else are the serfs. They are fascists at heart, as much as they scream and recoil at that term. if they don’t like it, then stop acting like fascists, and let people vote, and have witnesses at trials. But they won’t. Read Orwell’s book ‘1984,’ and you will see what the Republicans have fashioned themselves after.”

    Say something like that, with appropriate embellishments, every day, and it might get through. What have we got to lose? Appealing to the Republicans’ “better natures” is futile.

    • Well said and I agree. In fact I was nodding my head at all the points you made and found myself hoping that you write letters to politicians, magazines, and your local newspapers. Some of us still read letters to the editor, if only online. Has Stoddard admitted to being a Republican? It’s been obvious all along, and she’s still insisting that Bill Clinton subborned purjury when he did not. As for Matthews, he’s been an embarassment for years with his seventy year old popculture references and constant interruption of guests, especially women. To hear him tell it, he’s been a loyal, liberal Democrat all along; but some of remember how the sight of Bush’s manly bulge (flightsuit) sent “a tingle” up his leg.

      • Thank you, Sue. 🙂 Yes, I remember our family subscribing to the LA Times, and we would read the letters. A good letter, well written, can be calming and heartening. I will try to write some letters. Many of the newspaper sites online seem to require some kind of subscription or joining, and I rarely do that, but these are times which require more efforts, so I will write some. And I hope that many others will, too. Most Republicans don’t read anything, but others do.

        I was reading some comments today, and many are understandably disheartened, like we are. But that is part of their plan, of course, to demoralize people. The reality is that Democrats have made good gains in state races, and that there are now D governors in WI, MI, KA, TN,, even LA. This does not translate into winning the presidency against the antediluvian electoral college bias, but it does give hope for some fairer election processes. We haven’t yet gotten to the point where Republicans win all the races, control all the rules. We may well end up there, but we do have a chance to win more seats in the upcoming election, if we come out to vote. In fact, there is an article today which I have not yet read, indicating that some economic based forecasting model which is often correct in forecasting presidential elections (not that hard, actually) is saying that if Democrats have a big turnout, they can win the presidency even with “the good economy.” We need an absolute record turnout, this and every time.

  4. Watching as the hearings wind down to their apparently fixed conclusion, it popped into my head that during his presidential campaign, John Kerry offhandedly remarked that various leaders in Europe had told him how much they wanted him to win. And he was excoriated for saying that. Now apparently the same people are saying that not only is it appropriate for a candidate to actually solicit foreign help in an election, but the help itself is just fine.. Rather astounding hypocrisy, but not surprisingly so. I remember such things, but they don’t do too much good in getting through to the hypocrites, which mainly consist of Republicans and various members of the news media. Tabula rasa for them, if not deliberate dishonesty.

  5. Carrying Dershowitz’s argument its logical conclusion, could a sitting President kill his political opponents and get away with it? Obama already set the precedent of extrajudicial killing of US citizens by drone, after all. It’s not much of a stretch from that to doing it on US soil.

    • Only if he was doing it in the public interest. And let’s face it, who knows more about {{ fill in blank }} than Donald Trump. He’s exceptional, amazing. Look at all he’s done for us.
      Why would we want to throw it all away??
      Lucky for us, Donald won’t let that happen. It’s all for our own good.

      • But Dershowitz’s argument is that the re-election of a sitting President is synonymous with the public interest. He said the President couldn’t commit a crime, but Obama already set the precedent that droning American citizens isn’t a crime because a Presidential order constitutes “due process” (and yes, they actually made that argument). I don’t see any impediment whatsoever to targeting the Democratic nominee with a Hellfire or two. In the “public interest”.

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