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Impeachment part deux

Democrats,

Don’t waste your time or breath going on TV to talk about how you want to focus on the issues going into 2020. That would be all great and hunky dory but it’s not going to happen. The Trump administration is going to continue to do more and more outrageous things, poking at you and provoking you.

It’s not in Trump or Mitch McConnell’s interest to have you talking about healthcare or climate change. You know what else you’re not going to get from the Senate besides a conviction on impeachment?

Any cooperation on any vote whatsoever that you find good, desirable or necessary.

That’s the truth.

In fact, die hard Trumpers might even be excited about blocking you on absolutely everything. You’re also not going to lose even one die hard if you impeach the president. These people are locked in. You can safely write the vast majority off.

One exception is that there does seem to be a slight peeling away of support for Trump in the last week. Yep, there’s a softening of support because like I said last week, innocence does mean something and he sure as heck isn’t innocent, isn’t acting innocent and it’s hard to defend him.

To sum it up, you’re going to get the goblet with the iocaine powder in it no matter what you do.

So, go ahead and impeach. It’s what Republicans are daring you to do anyway. They want to bait you into what looks like a year long, fruitless process to bring Trump down. Why should you do this? Couple of reasons.

Nothing else is going to get done and no one is above the law.

Some people have no restraint when there’s no restraint. Just be upfront and honest about it.

“We’d like to be telling you about policy but we’ll let our presidential candidates do that. In the meantime, we’ll be impeaching Trump so that we can focus on election integrity and the fact that no one is above the law. We might not get anywhere but there’s really no other choice. We won’t get anywhere with policy anyway until 2020. We got to this deadlock by the skullduggery perpetrated on voters in 2016. We need to unpack that.”

Then stop worrying about what swing voters may think and start the hearings.

He looks less and less innocent as time goes on.

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67 Responses

  1. n fact, die hard Trumpers might even be excited about blocking you on absolutely everything. You’re also not going to lose even one die hard if you impeach the president.

    That’s quite possibly true – but you don’t win elections these days by converting die-hard supporters of the other guys. You win them by:

    1) Making sure your own die-hards turn out, and
    2) persuading independents and not-fully-committed people that you’re the better choice.

    I doubt if a failed impeachment (i.e., a successful impeachment in the House, followed by a failure to convict in the Senate) will do that.

    • Aaaaaand Captain Buzzkill is heard from… 🙄

    • You also can’t win if the elections are compromised. That’s the central theme of the 2016 general election. If you can think of a better way to call attention to all the ways voters were screwed that year, either through propaganda or direct hacking of servers or voting machines, impeachment hearings outta do it.
      It’s one thing if you think you made a proactive choice for Trump. It’s quite another thing if you don’t think you will have a choice in 2020.

    • One more thing: we already know that Republicans are going to fail to convict on impeachment unless their own elections start to be affected. We are already prepared for that. But there is value in making the senate block everything except the naming of Ronald Reagan post offices.
      McConnell Et Al have flown under the radar for far too long. They need a bright shiny light on them

      • They need not block it, RD. As it stands there are not enough votes in the Senate to convict. All McConnell has to do is let the trial proceed and Trump will be acquitted, or as he will doubtless put it, “exonerated”. The campaign ads will write themselves.

  2. Your argument is certainly a very compelling framing of things. I really just want the course which has the best chance of getting rid of Trump and having a Democrat elected in 2020. Would that we knew for certain what course that is. I appreciate the moral argument, that we do it because it is the right thing. But I cannot avoid thinking of political realities, which are ambiguous in this regard. I do think that part of where we are is that we have suffered through these two and a half awful years of Trump, and the knowledge that we were cheated out of the rightful presidency, to immense damaging effect. And we want to do something proactive, not just feel sad or angry or impotent. And impeachment, warranted by the facts we know, would feel like a regaining of collective power.

    And perhaps trying to calculate or imagine the political effects, is fruitless and wearying, so that we might as well just do the thing, and see how it turns out. I can see that. Right now, it still seems to me that we need some investigative hearings, to find out how much more evidence we may have. It feels somewhat like demanding a jury verdict before all the significant testimony is in–though maybe it is indeed in. McGahn is not out to help our side via his compelled testimony.

    I very much want us to have the upper hand going into the 2020 elections, and I think that we do have it now, though not in a commanding way. I do not want to dissipate that. Would it be more dissipated by going through impeachment which passes by ten votes or so, then having McConnell, who controls all aspects of the Senate trial, just shutting it down and mocking and lecturing us before the country? Or by not taking the moral stance that we are doing the thing that the Constitution compels us to do, even if not currently endorsed by a majority of the voting public? I guess that everyone has to make her or his best judgment on that. It does bother me somewhat that people like Chris Matthews and Lawrence O’Donnell, who always like to preach to their audience about morality, are all for Impeachment Now. The rest of us might well want to get out of the country if Trump wins again.

    • William, I agree. Hearings centered around the Mueller report and continuing to lay out the case for a change in leadership is, in my opinion, the way to go. I don’t want to feel good, I don’t even want to feel virtous, damnit, I want to win. It’s imperative that a Democrat wins in 2020. A sure way to lose would be to nominate Bernie Sanders, who I can’t even look at anymore. His new brilliant idea is to allow felons (while still in prison) to vote. And we’re not just talking about drug dealers but murderers and rapists, too.

      • Sue, I could not agree more on Sanders. What legitimate Democrat who actually wants the party to win, would stand up there arguing for the right of incarcerated felons to vote? That’s a 95%-5% issue against us. The Republican ads would make the Willie Horton insanity look like playtime. And yet Sanders is either so arrogant, or so stupid, as to waste his time trying to argue this. Or perhaps Sanders’ real goal is to lose the election and destroy the Democratic Party? Do you know that in the sportsbooks he is actually the favorite to win the nomination? I don’t think that he will, but he shouldn’t even be getting 10%. And I am thinking that there could well be a massive Republican crossover vote for Sanders in those abhorrent open primaries, as Republicans and Russians once again try to game our system. I hated Sanders last time; this time it looks like he is an actual agent against the Democratic Party.

        • There’s not a doubt in mind that he’s on a mission to destroy Democratic chances in 2020. For his own purpose or for someone else’s, I don’t know.

    • William, Sweet Sue and Kathleen,

      While I agree that impeachment of the Orange One would be very psychologically satisfying after the stolen 2016, having a Senate that would fail to convict would allow the Orange One to continue to say that he is being railroaded by Democrats. It would have the effect of rallying his base, especially in the more sparsely populated red states which have an disproportionate influence in the Electoral College.

      I know that the New York Times is not well liked here, but I found this commentary from Joe Lockheart, Clinton’s press secretary during the time the House impeached Clinton, to make some points worthy of consideration.

      • This is a very weak argument.
        His base is already going to be enraged by something. My guess is Trump will play up the socialism thing. Omg, we’re all going to become Cuba or something.
        Here’s the thing: the 2016 was really compromised by unethical, unpatriotic, self serving actions and then the investigation into national security issues was blocked.
        I think we are losing site of what is really at stake here. It MUST be investigated and if high crimes and misdemeanors are found, Trump MUST be impeached, whether it is successful or not. No one can be above the law.
        There are plenty of ways for Democrats to suppress the Trumper vote if they sit down and think about it. Fear of failure to succeed in impeachment of Trump is no excuse. Otherwise, impeachment will be reserved for blow jobs. Is that what we want??
        This is the case to press. It is independent of party politics. No one is above the law. No one.

        • I agree that no one should be above the law and I hope that the complete Mueller report will come out. I agree that if there is evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors, then he should be impeached.

          The point that Lockhart makes that if impeachment fails in the Senate, then it is still a loss. It gives the Orange One bragging rights.

          And looking to the declared Democratic candidates for president, I am worried that the progressive partisans will skew the vote so far to the left that the candidate will not be able to win in the Electoral College.

          I don’t want the Orange One in office a minute longer than need be. Since I live in Illinois, the nominating process is usually over by the time of our primary, I’m considering taking a Rethuglican ballot and voting for William Weld in hopes that the Orange One is not renominaed.

          Warren, Sanders or Buttigeg as the nominee will be likely to lose and the loss is likely to exceed that of Mr. McGovern in 1972.

          I think that Lockhart is looking at the long game which is to win in 2020.

          • We should go into it knowing that it will fail. Absorb the loss as part of our current reality. It’s still important to remind voters what happened during 2016. Consider it as a kind of prophylactic so that they are cognizant about how they may be manipulated and how voter suppression works.
            I can’t think of anything worse than to be told you have no choice and your vote doesn’t matter. Think about that.

        • Riverdaughter,

          I am worried that unless the House finds enough evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors that the Rethuglicans in the Senate would stand with Agent Orange One.

          I am also worried that so many Democrats have declared they are candidates for president that they will do what Agent Orange One did to the other Rethuglicans in 2016.

          So I worry that depending on who the Democratic nominee turns out to be, the end result will be similar to what happened in 2016.

          In the end, I will support the Democratic nominee. I also want to see
          Agent Orange One lose the Rethuglican nomination to someone like Weld who won’t drive the country into the ditch if the Democratic nominee does not come out ahead.

          It was this op-ed piece from last week that resonated with me.

  3. What are the dems afraid of? The big question is WHY Pelosi and some of the leadership believe that by not impeaching trump that we will be in a better position to win the Senate and the Executive branch in 2020?

    Trump will not WIN, the same methods used to steal the election in 2016 will be used again because the House and Senate have taken no steps in protecting the voting systems against hacking and manipulating the vote. So, all the political strategy in the world won’t override that reality if they continue to turn a blind eye to the fact that “winning” has nothing to do with the 2020 election, it’s all about STEALING the election.

    What I don’t understand is how can we winanything if we don’t do what is right? Dems have criticized the rethugs for not standing up to trump and now the winning strategy is to do the same thing by choosing the political safe approach of not impeaching him NOW? If not now, when will that opportunity come again?

    Has anyone considered the possibility that all of the people who have already testified before Mueller will now choose to ignore a subpoena demanding they testify before the House? I can’t imagine that the investigations the dems want to have won’t be delayed indefinitely by non-cooperation by the former trump minions and if they don’t start impeachment hearings immediately, then they certainly won’t when the election gets into high gear. The longer we wait to hold trump accountable, the less likely it will occur.

    This is all about politics and the dems are gambling that the investigations they want to have will all fall into place in a timely manner; that they will be able to inform the American people about the high crimes and misdeamenors, obstruction of justice and collusion this despot of which he is guilty in order to garner the public support they feel they must have in order to hold him accountable.

    Principals cannot be negotiated. You either have them or you don’t. We know that 37% (a minority) of Americans will follow trump no matter what he has done and the House dems are allowing that minority to rule over the majority.

    I believe the majority of Americans would be inspired and would gladly support a group of politicians choosing principal over politics. The forces against holding this man accountable will do anything to protect him, so any strategy short of starting impeachment proceedings is gambling away our chance to hold him accountable and showing the American people that the dems are not afraid to take on this criminal.

    As FDR once said, “THE ONLY THING WE HAVE TO FEAR IS FEAR ITSELF.” That applies now, IMO.

    • “So, all the political strategy in the world won’t override that reality if they continue to turn a blind eye to the fact that “winning” has nothing to do with the 2020 election, it’s all about STEALING the election.”

      Amen. Kathleen! I also think that extraordinary efforts are needed in the area of voter suppression which inordinately impacts Dems and facilitates the stealing.

      I don’t want the Congressional investigations to drag on either but I want his taxes and I want his financials. When it comes to money, I don’t think any voter on either side is thrilled to hear that the rich can lie and steal to get richer but if one of us tries it we go to jail or bankruptcy court. As I said earlier, we have a ton of lawyers in Congress, they should know when they have enough evidence to indict and support prosecution. Public impeachment hearings have to be done before the 2020 election, probably before the primaries.

  4. JMS,

    Thanks for the link to the NYT’s article. Yes, that is possible (not absolute) that trump’s staying in office would destroy the republican party. Frankly, I think the republican party is already toast. However, what’s not being considered in all of this political strategy is just how much more damage can this maniac do in the next year and half? Where trump is concerned, the sky’s the limit and that possibility is dangerous. He is mentally unhinged/deranged and even in the first/second stage of dementia. He has surrounded himself with “yes” people who will not defy his orders; he has packed the courts with judges who will do his bidding. A desperate and mentally unstable person knows no bounds when it comes to saving his own ass. Being successful in the senate is not what this is about either. I THINK BY NOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW FULL WELL THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS SOLD ITS SOUL TO DONALD TRUMP. What matters is that the dems will not stand by and allow him to continue with his high crimes and misdemeanors. What would inspire America more than to know that at least half of our representatives care about standing up to a despot and saying NO.

    Another fact that has been lost in all of this political manuvering is that nothing has been done to protect our election integrity, so it is worth considering that the Russians who stole the first election will want trump to stay in power even more now than before and so will be even more diligent in hacking into the voting systems to ensure another electoral win. You can’t win if the votes are manipulated to favor one candidate over another no matter how much trump is hated by the majority.

    We all know that the senate will not vote to impeach trump but that’s not the point. The American people need to see politicians care about doing the right thing and taking a stand — not political expediancy which may not result in the outcome Pelosi and others are gambling on.

    If the House does not take steps to hold trump accountable and show that his actions before and during his presidency are totally and unequivacally unacceptable, then what’s the point of having impeachment proceedings at all?

    The message of not impeaching trump would be that “he/she who cheats the best wins.” The voice of the people will be silenced forever and America will be no more.

    • Yep. Ditto.

    • I do not disagree with all the points that you have made.

      While impeachment in the House may not result in conviction in the Senate, the House committees should continue to investigate the Orange One. If what they find is so egregious that it peels away enough Republican senators for him to be convicted, well and good.

      With Nixon, Republican senators who knew the evidence and the seriousness of it, went to Nixon and told him that they would not support him in the Senate. Nixon resigned the next day.

      When Clinton was impeached, it was to some degree payback for Nixon. It was a way of saying that you did this to one of ours and now we are going to do it to one of yours. What Clinton did was not comparable to what Nixon did.

      The following op-ed commentary was also on the NYT’s website today.

      • While impeachment in the House may not result in conviction in the Senate, the House committees should continue to investigate the Orange One.

        Absolutely.

  5. Excellent points, RD.

    I would also add that Democrats, should they choose impeachment, must have some plan for countering media spin in favor of Rethuglicans.

    NYT will continue its no longer even subtle support of tRump, NPR will ramp up its current concern trolling and both siderism to maximum levels, and almost all the MSM will do so as well.

    I’ve come around to favoring impeachment as well, but Democrats absolutely need to have their strategic ducks in a row.

  6. Well, we see where we are, in terms of the Republican Party; not that we should not have realized it long ago. If the Republicans do not control the Presidency, but the House, they will do investigation after investigation. Gowdy and Chaffetz talked about a dozen or so investigations there were going to subject Hillary to, about a week after she had won. They will also use the budget power to threaten the entire financial structure of the United States, as they almost every year under Obama, unless they got their way on contested matters. If they only hold the Senate, they will block virtually every judicial nominee of a Democratic President, including Supreme Court Justices. If they hold the Presidency but not the House, they will claim executive privilege to block any hearings, and to refuse to allow any member of the executive branch to testify, as well as refusing to comply with any subpoenas. They will count on the Supreme Court and federal courts, which they have been stacking for forty years, to decide their way. By this, they expect to make it impossible for Democrats to ever govern in any way, get any bills signed into law, or get anything through the courts.

    All the posturing, moralizing, and religiosity coming from them over the last half-century, has meant absolutely nothing, other than as cover for their assault on constitutional principles. This is not just Trump, he is just more blatant and crude about it, which they actually appreciate. This is the Republican Party. They will not stop until the entire democracy is destroyed, or until they are virtually all removed from office, and their party becomes unelectable. There is no possible time for “trying to work things out,” or “let’s all come together,” or “Republicans are not the enemy.” Win elections, and then use power unilaterally and relentlessly, if necessary. How this all relates to impeachment now, is not completely clear, because there has to be a long game as well as a short game, and we must win elections, or we cannot possibly reverse any of this. But we must hold Republicans in any branch of government to full account, including throwing them in jail for Contempt of Congress, just like the liberals in the ’50’s were thrown in jail for not giving a renegade Republican Congress names of supposed “Communist sympathizers” for them to persecute.

    • What we are witnessing from the republican party with a trumpian presidency is the rise of the patriarchy’s fear of losing their privileged entitlement and dominance in all levels of society. It is what psychologists call “toxic masculinity” and no male behavior is more toxic than trumps! Under trump, toxic masculinity has been unleashed in full force upon us. It’s sad that so many men (and their women enablers) believe that this is the definition of what it means to be a “man” and that they can justify destroying our country in their desire to hang on to power by any means necessary.

      This will be a true test of those men who do not believe in this definition of masculinity and even more so for women in standing up and fighting against it. Imagine how it will be for women and people of color if they win this battle!

      What do we want our country to represent – inclusive and evolving or stagnant and exclusive? Are we willing to take on this fight (as Elizabeth Warren has often said) and save America from trump’s insanity and those who believe in it? We have to decide NOW, not later, that we must fight for it with more resolve and passion than trump and his followers if we want to prevent the return to a society that honors and promotes white supremecy, i.e., white male dominance and control.

  7. There is one thing you will get from Trump and the GOP Senate. This term or next.

    Amy Coney Barrett

    • Remember this, cr@wd@d.

      You fascists always, sooner or later, get around to wanting to murder the Jews.

      This is why you always, sooner or later, lose–because Someone does not like that.

      The only thing saving your sorry @$$es is His reluctance to intervene directly in human affairs.

    • Trump had 2 chances to nominate her already and refused. Move along already.

  8. Russia now MUST support the GOP, and do everything it can to insure the false victories of the GOP, lest a triumphant Democratic Party seek vengeance upon Russia.

  9. Thanks, peep. She will always be a fighter.

  10. Not a JB fan, however, great kick off video and I can see that going over very well in this now Red State’s rural areas. Sure not with the wing nuts but the bulk of the voters for sure. Im thinking he can beat Trump but what if Trump isn’t the nominee and instead someone like Hogan is the nominee. Dunno

    • Ok, JB is two years too late in PA. Here’s why: He’s coming to PITTSBURGH to make his big announcement. Pittsburgh is not rural. It’s got a very diverse population. The workforce is not Union for the most part. It’s IT, Robotics and healthcare. If he’s going to pitch his message to a disgruntled white working class white guy, well, we do have them but Pittsburgh itself votes for HRC over Trump by something like 70-30. AND the congressional representation has changed drastically since 2016 due to mandatory redustricting. D’s Picked up a slew of seats. Reps like Conor lamb have no legitimate reason to worry that he will lose his seat because of the WWC guy. Lamb would be an idiot to ignore the eastern suburbs where D’s and women of color made his second run for office a fucking cake walk compared to his first run.
      So Biden is using Pittsburgh as emblematic of something that it isn’t.
      Yeah, he’s not going to pick up many votes here.

    • He’d be better off going to York, PA.
      If he’s brave.
      I’d wear armor if I were him.

  11. I made the mistake of turning on Andrea Mitchell this morning. The Hillary hater panel included Chris Matthews, telling us that “Democrats blew it last time.” Unfortunately, this is going to be the narrative: Hillary did this or that wrong, wasn’t likeable enough, so now we need Biden. Nothing I can do about the narrative, of course. If Biden can beat Trump, I guess that’s the best we can do. We’ll get Harris as VP, the appointed President In Waiting, and I do not like that concept, either, but I guess all the “we don’t want a coronation” Democrats who happen to like Harris, would be fine with it. If someone actually wins the nomination over Biden, the narrative will be, “The Democrats’ Left Wing controls the party, and now AOC types are in charge, with their far out ideas.” So we lose that way, too.

    The time is out of joint, what a haunting and timeless piece of poetry. Hillary should have been nominated in 2008; she surely would have won, she would have had eight years to build the party infrastructure, and implement New Deal type policies. Then in 2016, maybe Obama would be the nominee, or maybe not. The Supreme Court would be at least 5-4 in our favor, because Hillary would never have let McConnell stop the nomination, nor would she have done nothing when the Republicans blocked all those lower court appointees. And we would not have been shellacked in all those state legislature and congressional races, because the Clintons were always about building a strong national Democratic Party. But the Obama worshippers plus the DNC, plus the media, just had to have him, so we got him, and then Trump; and now we either have to turn to the moderate “Republicans are not the enemy, Hillary. Mike Pence is a good guy,” Biden, or risk it all on someone with much less experience, running on policy ideas which are either yet unstated, or strongly stated, but completely incapable of being implemented in any Congress which resembles this one.

    It all leads to a resigned disappointment, but of course we absolutely have to get out of this abyss any way we can, in the same way that most of us had to accept the Obama ascendance. It just feels like our problems, nationally, globally, environmentally, are so immense and immediate, that we need someone great, someone like FDR, with the idealism and political savvy to completely turn around the national narrative, and usher in a new progressive era. I don’t see anyone like that among the 20 candidates, so I guess we will have to settle for what we can get. Hillarys do not come along very often, though blowhards like Matthews will never see or admit it. Those last four years of Obama, where we could get nothing through the Congress, and he stopped trying to; where all the judicial appointees were blocked, where we had to beg the House Republicans just to get the dept ceiling raised, were not enjoyable, just infinitely preferable to the horror always just outside the room.

    • Agree.
      2008 was the biggest travesty for our Democracy inflicted by the very own Democratic Party -robbing Hillary of the primary win. We won’t forget.
      The O-messiah made believe he was the cure of partisan politics with Hope and Change; enabling the real “swamp” nightmare we are now living like never before in the history of our country.

      • William and Bellecat – I totally agree. It feels good to me to have someone acknowledge this travesty. But I think we are in a minority. The DNC which had worked so hard in 2008 to take back control of both houses missed a terrific opportunity to do so much good for the country and the world. I still do not understand again the Hillary-hate and the forces to undermine her and get behind the “ingenue” as I often think of him then and now.

        • Obama was projected as a transcendent figure, a man of mixed ancestry who identified as African-American, and who would thus magically heal and solve the country’s internal conflicts. He also was and is a fine orator. Very little experience in government, wouldn’t even take voting stands in the Illinois legislature, views not particularly liberal on economics–but not enough cared. A chance to beat Hillary and “the Clintons,” is what the Left had been yearning for. They were going to go for Edwards, but for his scandal. They always go against what they see is the establishment figure. And the biggest problem–the one that none of the media will mention–is that Obama took advantage of ridiculous caucuses, where his corps of young voters overwhelmed the working-class, older Hillary voters, who could not stand there for ten hours. Hillary won almost every major primary, no one admits that. I remember all of them. Obama was able to get elected, but after that, the Democratic Party got swamped in midterms in those rust belt states that he lost in the primaries, and were almost gerrymandered out of existence.

          One other thing which is still present, and which no one will mention: The “Brazile Rules,” wherein she gave more primary delegates to districts with a majority of Black voters. Her patently bogus rationale was that, “districts which voted in a higher proportion for the Democrat in the last election,, deserve to get more delegates next time.” Oh? What she was doing, was insuring that Black-dominated districts which would clearly go for Obama in the primary, got more than their population proportion of delegates. That’s how Hillary won Ohio by about twelve points, and got maybe five more delegates. And of course Obama won caucuses by 70% or more, and got something like 35 more delegates than she did in Kansas. The whole thing was actually rigged in Obama’s favor. And the media had no interest in telling that story. Those Brazile rules are still in place. It may not matter this time, but rest assured that districts with the highest proportion of African-Americans, are going to get more delegates proportionately than those less so. It is a complete violation of “one person, one vote.” Oh, yes; and Florida and Michigan just popped into my mind as well–but the media blew that story, too, of course. Anyone see any states lose delegates for moving up their primary since then? No, only Florida and Michigan, because Brazile knew that they would go for Hillary by a wide margin. I would like to write a book, “Donna Brazile, the person who virtually handed the country to the Republicans, and then went to work for a Republican propaganda outlet.”

          • William – I wish you would write that book. Also didn’t the DNC nullify delegate votes in Michigan because they had their primary too soon or something like that? Oh, I see you mentioned that. Anyway, I remember major rigging going on. And, yes, Bernie did the same as Obama by gaming the caucuses to get more superficial support. So what if the Clintons were Democratic “establishment”. It is not as if they did anything to harm these leftist Democrats. I have wondered many times if Obama, who yes had given a great speech at the Democratic convention but had a thin resume otherwise, was white whether anyone would have given him the time of day. Maybe they would have seen him as someone with potential who could be encouraged and cultivated which is what I think should have happened in any event. And also I remember the terrible misogyny from his young white male supporters.

          • And let’s not forget when Obama and others removed themselves from the ballot (can’t remember why or which state, MI?), HIllary won the state and then they gave Obama something like 4 delegates that he WOULD have won had he been on the ballot based on exit polls. What outright theft in plain sight. Media and Obama supporters didn’t care about that one either.

          • Belle, I have always believed that had Obama been either a white male or a black woman, s/he would never have made it through the primaries due to a shocking lack of qualifications/experience. Today I heard a discussion on whether experience matters any more. Someone went on to say that even though Obama’s two terms as a state senator were meager, he was a “terrific” president. All things being equal (which they never seem to be), how is that even possible? He came out of the womb ready to be POTUS? I guess it will be a toss up as to whether Obama or trump is the next head on Mt. Rushmore due to their monumentally significant presidencies.

          • Yes, Cats- actually Obama missed the deadline, I think, to be on the ballot in Michigan, so the DNC extrapolated to how people would have voted if Obama was on the ballot. The speech by Harold Ickes, Jr. (who represented Hillary at the May 30th rules committee meeting is a classic re: fair reflection.

          • Replying to lililam below. As I recall it, Brazile ruled that the Florida and Michigan presidential primaries were invalid, because they had each moved up their primary a week or so. The primaries would still be held, of course. Obama got advice, probably from Brazile, to pull his name off the ballot, so he could later claim that the voting was not valid, since he had requested that his name be taken off. Hillary won by an immense amount, as she did in Florida, one of her best states. Then, as always is the case, the primaries were not completely invalidated by the DNC, but they were diluted, which is virtually unheard of. I think they counted 50% of the delegates in Florida, taking away something like 63 Hillary delegates. In Michigan, they did indeed give Obama all of the delegates he got through the vote, plus some more than they said he would have gotten had he not tried to get his name off the ballot. So they actually stole Hillary’s delegates. Anybody but Hillary would have screamed bloody murder, would have made a national scandal out of it. But Hillary is not like that. And there was of course the racial angle; the media would have called her a racist and a poor sport and everything else. So Ickes made his speech, nothing was done to fix it; and according to RD, who was there, various Hillary delegates were intimidated into changing their vote. I know that some superdelegates, particularly African-American ones, were. One could look at all of this as the absolute cheating, disparaging, and assaulting of Hillary Clinton in two separate elections. Or one could expand that to say that all of this mirrored and contributed to the destruction of American democracy, and that the country would look a lot different and better, had this not happened.

    • The problem with Biden and this is probably why the pundits are pushing him is because he is a repeat of Obama. We can expect more begging the GOP to go along and more resistance from the GOP. And then guess what? Biden can only serve one term. So in 2024 we’re going to have to go through this again and it’s not going to be against Trump. Biden is probably the worst candidate we can put up besides Sanders.

      • You make an excellent point in the sense that nominating the person who would only serve one term, is far from ideal–unless of course he is the only one who has a good chance to beat Trump. That is really the question here. I would not at all be thrilled with a Biden regime, but can one of the more progressive candidates actually win? We see that the Republicans are going to call anyone but Biden and maybe Klobuchar, a socialist. Of course none of them is but Sanders, who is probably more of a Marxist. But the voters are not very knowledgeable about these concepts, and they run away from any candidate who can effectively be labeled in that way.

        Pretty obviously, Biden would pick Harris or someone in that vein, to be his running mate, with of course the implicit promise that she will be the next nominee. But you are right that the next election will be against some kind of “credible Republican” like Haley, and then the issue which a Biden candidacy will not focus on much this time–which party’s economic policies are best for the average citizen–will not only have to be fought by someone else than Biden, but will probably be even more difficult, because the economy and the middle class will be declining then. We really need someone who can somehow show the voters that this “booming economy” is not at all, unless you are a multimillionaire. 3.2% increase in GDP, oh, boy! Except that the average citizen does not gain 3.2% in salary or wealth; and the price of gas has gone up about 3% in the last few months, plus many of the middle class had to pay more in taxes. I think that Sherrod Brown would have been the best candidate to focus on this, but he chose not to run, probably because he knew that Biden was going to. If people think that Trump is good for “the” economy, then it will be hard to beat him, no matter how awful or corrupt a person they think he is.

        • I’m not sure Biden would win. I mean this is the 4th time he has run in the primary and he has lost to bad candidates in the primary. Trump has harassment problems and so does Biden. Trump colluded with the Russians but Biden said nothing while this was going on. It’s really mostly on Obama but Biden was there. It also gives Trump another chance to run against Obama. Just plus the fact that Biden is a horrible candidate. It’s ironic that our two worst candidates are leading in polling. There’s HIckenlooper a governor of a purple state that I’m pretty sure could beat Trump. Inslee another governor that has a short voting record in the house. Lots of other candidates. They are going to call all of them socialists. They called Hillary a socialist even though she wasn’t one. As long as Bernie loses the primary the whole socialist thing shouldn’t be a problem. Trump is more beatable than people seem to be willing to say. You can’t have the horrible approval ratings that he has and say he’s not beatable. People don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth. People don’t believe that he was cleared by Mueller and then we’re also going to have hearings. It is going to be a full frontal assault on him by the entire party by hearings and passing popular legislation that McConnell is going to bottle up in the house.

  12. Meanwhile, back in the pig lagoon, Putin and Kim Jong had a lengthy meeting and got on famously. It was reported that Vlad asked Kim to give a message to Donny for him. Can’t wait to see what that entails. Doubt it is simply “Missing you, hugs and kisses. Love, V.”

  13. It’s a good thing I never learned to drink ethanolic beverages, or this might be how I would be enduring the Benedict Donald Assministration. 😛

  14. I could live with Biden at the top of the ticket. There’s only one candidate I’d have real heartBern with. My husband who’s more liberal than I, said that if Bernie is the nominee, he’ll stay home! That’s serious.

    • I can well understand your husband’s view of this. I generally feel the same, except that if it actually came to that, I might be forced to vote for the grifting demagogue in our party. Hopefully, it will not. I don’t favor Biden much, but we may be forced to go with him, because the other candidates either lack significant experience, propose currently unattainable policies, or alienate a substantial portion of the “coalition.” Biden is most Democrats’ compromise candidate, even before the race has started, long before one usually has to look for one. It is sad that we have come to this, but there are no Democratic stars out there, without Hillary. I actually like some of our new women in Congress more than I like these candidates, but maybe some of that is just due to projection.

  15. One other thing which is as yet present, and which nobody will make reference to: The “Brazile Rules,” wherein she gave progressively essential agents to regions with a lion’s share of Black voters. Her plainly fake reason was that, “locale which casted a ballot in a higher extent for the Democrat in the last decision,, have the right to get more delegates next time.” Oh? What she was doing, was protecting that Black-ruled locale which would unmistakably go for Obama in the essential, got more than their populace extent of representatives. That is the manner by which Hillary won Ohio by around twelve points, and got perhaps five additional representatives.
    http://ilmahkids.co.uk/

  16. Interesting and for me surprising, I attended a women’s gathering following JB joining the race and JB as the default nominee. The discussion centered on settling for Biden as safe, electable and of not trusting the Party’s activist Base to not elect deranged demented Donald again. It’s early but my sense is their choice is final and I doubt they are going to spend energy on the Party Media Click Bait campaign frenzy other than to just vote. Chicken’s roosting or maybe hype hate burn out?

    • People may think that now but after the ads get running with Biden’s problems it may cause him to lose support. After all Bernie has lost a lot of support after he actually started running. Already Biden has botched his rollout and started spewing misogyny. He’s just as big a mess as Bernie but with moderate ideas and better suits.

      • I’m sensing Hillary’s torments during the 2008 and 2016 campaign by Bernie and many Dem’s as a racist, pleasant enough, and so crooked she should be locked up provided a valuable lesson for the electorate. Add the general election antics by a compromised DOJ, Comey, NY FBI, McCabe’s NYT Clinton foundation smear, the Russian BS, and Deranged Donnie & his Deplorable’s sewage spewing and it may be personal attacks won’t have that kind of power anymore.

  17. For whatever little good it does us, I am now pretty well convinced that voter rolls in Florida were hacked by Russians, and that Hillary actually won that state. And they were probably hacked in Michigan and Pennsylvania, too. Hearing yesterday’s story about Florida reminded me of when Trump was yelling about how the only way he would lose Pennsylvania was if the Democrats cheated. Why would he say it in those terms, instead of saying that he was optimistic that he would win that state, or he expected surprise? Because he knew that the Russians were cheating, and that he was a sure thing to win that state, and if he didn’t, it only could because, in the words of the movie “The Sting,” they were cheating better than he was?

    I am certain that those who know, even the ones who are not corrupt, will never tell us about the ballot hacking, because “it would upset the American people too much.” Bill Nelson knew that the rolls were hacked,and he warned about that before his own Senatorial election, but the utterly corrupt Governor Scott ignored him. I remember when they were tabulating votes in Florida, and suddenly Trump jumped way ahead in about thirty seconds. Of course we thought it might just have been a very Republican district, with later counted votes, but very possibly not. And remember when the count of the early pre-election day votes had Hillary so far ahead that credible statisticians said that for Trump to win Florida overall, he would have to garner an almost impossible percentage of the election day vote? This is all something that will be revealed a hundred years or so from now; that is, if there actually is still a free United States.

  18. As of today, I’ve changed my mind about Impeachment hearings.
    Pull the trigger.

    • I was just thinking that last night, before I learned about another horrifying shooting, by a depraved white nationalist man who very likely was encouraged by Trump’s rants at the NRA convention. And before Trump sent a tweet out commending literal white nationalist athlete Nick Bosa for being drafted #2 by the NFL, while saying nothing about the #1 choice, a Black man, or any other person drafted. The terrible rise in anti-semitic attacks is directly correlated to Trump’s election and rhetoric, though the comments of the radical anti-semites on the Far Left, are also a contributor. It all has to be faced head-on. Trump is daring the Democrats to impeach him, because he thinks it is a political winner for him, but that is not necessarily true, and at some point, which is now, we just have to take the risk. But I do think that they feel compelled to wait until Mueller testifies, which I think is to be around May 23.

      • Today did it for me, William. Who are we? What do we stand for? What does it mean to be an American?
        Does a robust economy make us indifferent to kids in cages?
        I think you know I’m pretty steady but we’re crossing the Rubicon now.

  19. William,

    I believe the reason that Manafort gave the Russian Klemnick the data from the 3 states that went electorially for trump was to help them hack into the voting system itself and alter the vote to favor trump. I’ve talked about the HBO documentary which proved that voting systems can be hacked into without detection, “Hacking Democracy” quite a bit on this blog and others. It seems that Americans have a hard time accepting that their voting systems are so vulnerable and would rather not look at the evidence and pretend it’s not true.

    When the documentary came out the ONLY journalist to give it any air time was believe it or not, Lou Dobbs. The rest of the media either ignored it or tried to undermine its findings. Congress was not interested in it either because I’m sure they were afraid it would call ilnto question their own election if they actually gave the documentary credibility.

    I’ve been trying since 2006 to get Congress and the American people to wake up and take the findings of this documentary to heart and not let the machines count the votes. But in every case, the response is that it’s too complicated to return to hand counted paper ballots at the precinct on election, observed by citizens, and the the results posted for all to see. They’ve complicated the eleciton process to make it seem impossible to return to hand counts. Expediency and convienence is more important than transparency and accuracy. That’s how trump with the help of russian hackers were able to steal the electoral vote. Interestingly enough, Germany took what we found out about the machines and banned voting systems in Germany. How ironic!

    Watch the film. It’s all there showing exactly how we got to this point.

  20. Off topic:

    Once upon a time, there was a great AM clear-channel station out of Little Rock, Arkansas. Its call letters were KAAY, “The Mighty 1090”. At night, its signal went north and south for hundreds of miles, garnering listeners in the Midwestern and Great Plains states, and even in Latin America, including Cuba (!). KAAY still exists, although it switched to a religious format in 1985.

    This blog is devoted to the old version of the station.

    https://mighty1090kaay.blogspot.com/

    On the right side of the page are links to Webcasts of two programs from the same dude. (Not the blog owner) “Tin Can Alley” is devoted to the pop music of the late ’60s, the ’70s, and the early ’80s, with a few interludes of ads and other audio bits from the period. “Barry Mac’s Flashback Tracks” features AOR-type music, with a few comedy bits here and there, from the 1960s to the 2000s. 😎

    • Fair warning: I clicked the link to test it, and it started playing every audio clip on the page. 😛

  21. It’s up to us: WOMEN!

  22. I hope the link works. Is about “Supermajority”
    https://www.msnbc.com/

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