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Bannon, Cromwell and Aristocrats

Update: It didn’t take long for Kellyanne Conway to state what Trump plans to do with Medicare. He’s going to save it for everyone *currently* using it. (See post below) The rest of us?  What do you think?  I think the bulk of the fabulous tax cuts we’re going to get are going to come from social security and Medicare phaseout. Make Americans Destitute Again! yay

Steve Bannon, Donald Trump’s “senior advisor”, refers to himself as a modern day Thomas Cromwell. Cromwell, as you may recall, was one of the first true English statesmen. His goal was to pull England out of the Middle Ages with respect to banking, commerce and the modernization of the state itself where a bunch of 16th century technocrats would run the joint while the aristocrats idylled in their game preserves.

One of Cromwell’s ideas was if you kept the restless poor masses fed and busy, you could calm insurrection, allowing business to bloom. He tried to get parliament to pay attention, as illustrated in this passage from Hilary Mantel’s brilliant book, Bring Up The Bodies:

“In March [1536], Parliament knocks back his [Thomas Cromwell’s] new poor law. It was too much for the Commons to digest that rich men might have some duty to the poor. If you get fat, as some men do who profit from the wool trade, you have some responsibility to the men turned off their land, the laborers without labor, the sowers without a field. England needs roads, forts, harbors, bridges. Men need work. It’s a shame seeing them begging their bread, when honest labor could keep the realm secure. Can we not put them together, the hands and the tasks?

But Parliament cannot see how it is the State’s job to create work. Are not these matters in God’s hands, and is not poverty and dereliction part of his eternal order? To everything there is a season- a time to starve and a time to thieve. If rain falls six months solid and rots the grain in the fields, there must be Providence in it. God knows his trade. It is an outrage to the rich and enterprising to suggest that they should pay an income tax only to put bread in the mouths of the work shy. And if Secretary Cromwell argues that famine provokes criminality, well, are there not hangmen enough?

The King himself comes to the Commons to argue for the law. He wants to be Henry the Beloved, a father to his people, a shepherd to his flock. But the Commons sit stoney faced on their benches and stare him out. The wreckage of the measure is comprehensive. “It is ended up as an Act for the Whipping of Beggars”, Richard Rich says. “It is more against the poor than for them.”

Soooo, that went well.

The problem with the last election is that the people who voted for Trump, and the rest of us who didn’t but are stuck with him, is that the voters what chose to “drain the swamp” ended up with a swamp only slightly less full. The Republicans are in charge of the House and Senate just like they were before the election. The Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan’s nickname is “granny starver” because he’s intent on dismantling Medicare and slashing social security. Oh, yes, oh best beloveds, he’s got binders full of plans and now that Obama is out of the way, he and his wealthy aristocratic friends will not be afraid to whip those babies out and ram them down our throats whether we’ve worked all our lives for those benefits or not.

I think he’ll be clever about it. He’ll grandfather in your grandfather who is already receiveing SS and Medicare. That will be the generational divide he’s been waiting for. It will be the Republican version of the ACA’s pre-existing conditions manuever. Of course, you will be expected to sacrifice so granny can eat.

And who could argue with that?

Ryan will flatter King Henry VIII, er, Donald, and Donald will come home to his wealthy and well connected roots. Eventually, he’ll turn on Bannon. So easy to do, just continue to play up his white nationalist roots.

Oh, I’m not feeling sorry for Bannon and his “ends justifies the means” repugnant version of white nationalism. He’s no Thomas Cromwell, who, if history is correct, really did have a social conscience, even if he did have to play the King’s game as he raped and pillaged the Church. That whole ordeal with Anne Boleyn was self preservation. The palace wasn’t big enuf for the two of them.

But sooner or later, Bannon will have to go. Whatever secret plans he had to make sure the wild and angry mob stayed pacified will be scrapped by the aristocrats we still left in Congress.

His king will turn on him and he’ll lose his head and we’ll be deprived of our safety net. The Ryans and Pences will look down upon us and ridicule us for not saving more of our meager earnings. They will judge us for daring to change God’s plans for us.

Wait and see.

Today is my birthday. I hereby declare The Confluence a beet free zone!


81 Responses

  1. Trump is probably the weakest president we have ever had in this country. However that is not going to stop Ryan et. al. from using him as a useful idiot who will sign all their legislation. Democrats should just sit there and vote against everything that the GOP puts forth and Bernie et. al. need to start being a team player and quit their self indulgent fantasies.

    • They’ve got the votes to do whatever they want now. My guess is they won’t completely get rid of SS and Medicare. They’ll just gut them so they won’t be any good to anyone who hasn’t retired by 2018.

      • All too many of my fellow white folks are so brainwashed by “traditional” culture that they are willing to vote, over and over again, for politicians who will hurt them.

        I don’t know what can be done about that.

        Neither does Driftglass.

        Part 1.

        • Part 2.

        • Mike Lumish, from the Part 1 comment thread on Driftglass’s site:

          Being myself a rural white guy, with family all over the rural white guy parts of this continent, my fundamental problem with all this squawking about rural white guys and their alleged abandonment by the Democratic Party is the historical fact that the rural white guys could not run away fast enough from the Democratic Party in the aftermath of the Civil Rights Era.

          Lumish speaks for me here. Some of the occasional visitors to this blog like to denounce the Clintons, and other Democrats like them, to the highest heavens because “they deserted the non-elite whites”.

          However, as Lumish and I remember, mostly, the non-elite whites deserted the Democratic Party first, because the non-elite whites were willing to sacrifice their own safety net, just to make sure those N-people could not use it.

          As a famous ancient text would say, my people are a stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears. 😦

        • I suggest you ignore any comments at Drifty’s site by an antique flatulence calling himself “Tanbark”. The man has been a brainwashed Clinton-hater at least since 2008.

  2. Happy Birthday to You!

  3. Happy Birthday, RD! May the Ascended Madoka bless you! :mrgreen:

    Just don’t hold your birthday dinner here. 😛

  4. Happy Birthday Riverdaughter.

    May I suggest a champagne cocktail to celebrate? To make one place a cube of sugar in a champagne flute and add a dash of bitter to it. Fill the flute with champagne and add an orange peel. It seems appropriate with this election, won by an orange cheeto that has left Hillary supporters particularly bitter.

    It cheered me to see your new post this morning. I have yet to really cry about Trump’s victory.

    Ivory Bill Woodpecker and Mike Lumish have touched on ancient (circa 1980) or earlier history. In the wake of the upheavals of 1968, union workers supported Nixon. In 1980, they were called “Reagan Democrats.” The construction of supply side economics really started under Reagan. It was also the beginning of the destruction of the middle class.

    In the pre-2008 days when I listened to “Air America” I remember Thom Hartman saying that when Reagan as governor of California saw the children of the middle class demonstrating at the California colleges for civil rights and against the war, he was determined to destroy the middle class. If people are too busy working, they have no time to demonstrate. It sounds similar to the excerpt from “Bring Up the Bodies.”

    • I was gassed while walking by a college campus, thanks to Governor Ronnie’s calling out the state guard or something. I always thought that the Southern California businessmen who propped him up were more afraid of the “hippie” non-consumer culture. A non-acquisitive culture was swapped with “Greed is good” and “He who dies with the most toys wins.” BMWs ruled the highways. Housing prices shot up. That’s when homelessness became apparent. Have v. have nots. Mental institutions were closed and funding never materialized for group housing.

  5. Happy Birthday, RD, and many happy returns of the day.

  6. RD:
    We have the same birthday…how about that… Happy Birthday!

    I was born November 22nd at 10am. I was baptized with the music patron saint name Saint Cecilia: my name and music my passion.
    I write this while listening “Reverie” by Claude Debussy…

    I feel honored to share same birthday with you, RD…my friend in dreams and battles…

    • Omg! I *love* that piece. Debussy is my favorite composer. Maybe we were separated at birth.

  7. I myself have no conceded and accepted defeat. I’m in the fight for:

    Count all votes; they have not finished counting all the votes.

    Recount those too close, MI, WI, AZ, PA, FL

    Audit the presidential election

    Investigation of violation of voting rights.

    Electoral College Petition to make Hillary the president on December 19

    Respect and accept the Popular Vote and/or abolish the Electoral College.

    Call me a fool, but this election was a overt coup to America’s Democracy…the popular vote for Hillary Clinton speaks for itself…
    We the People demand justice…
    I am with the Resistance.
    Care to join us?

    • I’m with you in the resistance.

      • belle cat- I sent those demands to my senators- Warren and Markey. I thank you for the suggestions.

        • With you. DOJ number is 202/3531555. It’s been busy all day long, after Huma’s sister asked people to call and request an audit of the vote.

          • Pass the word…make it viral…
            my last tweet was to tell her (Hillary) that the Dem party needs to count all the votes that *SHE*earned. They need to fight for her.

            Hillary is almost at 2 million more votes…

            Hillary 64,041,981

            Tangerine 62,116,835

            Hillary is up 1,925,146 votes

    • All aboard. Curiously, if there was tampering, I read that there wasn’t enough of a difference (greater than 1%? to trigger a recount) in some of the swing states. It is time to retire the Electoral College.

    • I’m with you! Not accepting it. Not one bit. I don’t believe for one second that she won the popular vote by this big a margin and states like WI & MI decided to go red. This was the most consequential election of our lifetime. Audit the vote, recount the votes! If there’s nothing there we will move on. Does Hillary’s campaign have to ask for a recount/audit to be done or can states do it without them asking?

  8. A ray of hope? Article posted on Yahoo from HuffPo:

    “In light of the information tying the Trump campaign to voting suppression tactics nationally and specifically in key swing states, and with consideration for the Safe Harbor deadline of December 13th – the Strategic Institute of Intersectional Policy is calling for an immediate cessation to all activities related to the transfer of power to the Republican Party. This call includes firm requests for President Obama, Hillary Clinton, Lorretta Lynch, and the Democratic members of Congress to exercise their full authority to stop the transfer of power; investigate the states, organizations and people involved in the strategic design and implementation of voter suppression efforts, and postpone the electoral college accordingly.

    Read the entire article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-report-prompts-call-for-democrats-to-halt-transfer_us_5833faa1e4b0d28e552154be

    And more of voices on the same problem:


    A must read…

    • I think the immensity of the loss is too stunning. I do notice one thing, the Democrats aren’t really blaming her. It would be hard to do that. She worked harder against more obstacles and unfair treatment by the press than anyone we have ever had run for president.
      And she almost brought them a landslide. It was Comey that ended her career. That’s not her fault. That’s just a weird aberration in a messed up year.

    • There needs to be SOME kind of resistance. And a short paragraph on twitter wont cut it. These are our elected officials. I want them out there pushing back actively, holding press conferences, giving interviews on this matter. If the public wants an audit give it to them! And report on it. Talking about a peaceful transition of power to a sexual predator who conspired with Russia to sway our election is frankly insane at this point

    • Ok, I’ve been wrong before, but I don’t think she’s going to do it. Or at least she’s not going to do it until someone shows her how the vote was hacked.
      Whoever did it was really good. I think it will almost impossible to prove.
      OTOH, it would definitely help her case with the electoral college. She won the popular vote and she’s sane, mentally healthy, prepared and competent. And some of us actually like her.
      Yes, we actually like her a lot.

  9. http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/11/why-clinton-lost-bitter-bernie-crooked-comey-and-wounded-working-class

    The third “reason” attributed to the loss does need to be a grab bag. The voter drop-off and enthusiasm waned for Obama in 2012 because of few results, but Romney didn’t generate much enthusiasm.

    Hillary was doomed with a certain segment of the population because she had to run for O’s third term. His favorability ratings were
    in the toilet before she started putting a positive spin on his administration. Blacks who hadn’t gotten much from him other than a positive image
    weren’t inclined to go out of their way for his “successor.” I doubt many saw him on TV saying that he would put the blame on them if Hillary didn’t
    win, unless they watched C-SPAN.

    Also, it would be more difficult for someone who wasn’t somewhat sophisticated to figure out what the email “scandal” was about. All the R’s
    wanted was something to stick on her that made her come across as “crooked.” Hillary wasn’t someone comfortable with using email other than on her phone. She used the same computer as the Clinton Foundation for her Senate email. State IT staff secured it when she decided to use it at State. Her email address was not one that was a government domain. Seems security is lacking if this was deemed inappropriate but she used it for four years! Her staff printed out what she needed to see (when the printers worked–otherwise, necessary to forward them to one’s home computer). Hillary preferred face-to-face and diplomatic pouches. Seems it is her staff that used email to provide background material and talking points to her.

    When Powell arrived in 2000, no one had computers. He was able to get some, but by 2008, they were aging. The quality of government suffers from inadequate funding, and that seems to be the point of those who want minimal government and maximum tax cuts for the top 1%.

    Sexism and racism (the latter one-step removed) played into it as well. There was a big deal made about her coalition, and it didn’t include that many white men.

    The media’s (whatever that is now) constant negative slant on Hillary news took its toll.

    Racism has to be a big factor in Trump’s win because he was so blatant about it.

    A part of the third-ranking reasons for the loss was the projected huge victory (and wishful thinking that our fellow Americans would never vote for a man such as
    Trump in any large numbers).

    Also, stick it to the party deemed responsible–I had a bad feeling when I read that ACA insurance rate hikes were being
    mailed out just before the election. Many people have no idea the President doesn’t make laws and that he needs a Congress that will work with him. (Unless Hillary rises, I don’t expect a “she” in my lifetime.) I know someone who has hated “the Clintons” for years because Bill “passed” a bill with a rider that affected the price of recycled cardboard. I recommended that he research to see what Congress it passed under (the 106th, for example, was Republican dominated) and that he get to know his Congressional Representative and let his future concerns be known. I doubt the Clintons had much to do with this, although Bill would have signed or vetoed the main bill.

  10. RD, an fyi & off-topic item,


    I recall you stated you were against the 0bama OT rule change, which updated the minimum salary one needs to get paid to NOT be eligible for overtime from $455 to $913/wk, aka $26.66K/yr to $47.476K/yr. If I understand correctly, 0bama was merely updating the figure to be updated for CPI inflation for the 1st time since the 1970s, which the DC politrickians since the 1970s failed to do.

    IIRC you stated you were anti this rule, but declined to state why.

    IMHO, although 0bama Reagan Jr was a overall bad President, harmful to the 99%, especially with his desired Grand Ripoff to age-raise Medicare & Social Security age (IIRC for 55 & under) & bogusfy undercount the CPI inflation rate for SS/MC recepients, TPP, killing the health insurance Public Option he 2008 campaigned on, & brutalizing/criminalizing whistleblower American heros like Chelsea Manning & Edward Snowden worse than all prior US Presidents combined. However, 0bama IMHO has done SOME good policies, such as this OT rule, the CAFE car mileage standards for future cars, SOME of the ACA provisions like Medicaid Expansion & banning denying insurance due to preexisting conditions, pardoning a relatively few nonviolent drug offenders, the Iran peace deal, & the restoring diplomacy with Cuba deal.

    RD, this Kyle Kulinski clip reports the new 0bama OT rule will soon be killed by ConManDon Trump, apparently per request of Paul Ryan

  11. I am hoping the Sanders-esque, social democratic, Progressive faction of Ds takes the D party over from the neoliberal Reagan Jr Clintons/0bama faction.

    IIRC some of yall HClinton primary voters like RD said they actually supported the Sanders policies, but prefered to vote for HClinton for other non-policy reasons. I would hope your cohort considers joining the Sanders primary voters in supporting the Progressive faction. Consider that many of the leaders in the Progressive faction are White women like Elizabeth Warren, Zephyr Teachout, or other women like Tulsi Gabbard & Nina Turner. Dr. Jill Stein & economist Dr Kshama Sawant are Progressive women running in 3rd parties, that would conceivably be or support a genuine Progressive D candidate.

    I would hope that the 2020 candidate is a woman that is also a Progressive that has 90%+ the same policies as Sanders & a Sanders-like consistent track record. If so, perhaps yall would consider supporting such a candidate, as would the Sanders voters, & such a candidate would defeat whomever the next hack corporate puppet like Cory Booker or Julian Castro coming from the neoliberal Reagan Jr assembly line :0

    • We have an election still going on…not thinking of 2020…much less hoping on Sanders and minions like you…get a grip…and don’t visit us any more…

      • didn’t HClinton herself concede the 2016 election, give a public concession speech, & report that she called ConManDon conceding? How is the election “still going on”? Honestly, what am I missing?

        I despise ConManDon, I just don’t understand what you are referring to re “election still going on”.

    • I am hoping the Sanders-esque, social democratic, Progressive faction of Ds takes the D party over from the neoliberal Reagan Jr Clintons/0bama faction.

      Oh, so you want The Donald to win a landslide in 2020? Because that’s what will happen if the Unicorn Left takes over the Democratic Party.

      Also, what Bellecat said. Please lose yourself down the gravity well of the nearest collapsar at your earliest convenience.

      • social democracy
        1 empirically the best political economic system now & in the last century. Nations like Denmark, Canada, Australia, Germany, etc pwn the worl rankings on life expectancy, economic mobility aka “does hard work pay off?”, etc

        2 social democratic policies have MAJORITARIAN support among USians. Canada style MedicareForAll has 58% support, etc. In spite of BigMedia, the Rs, & neoliberal Reagan Jr D faction currently led by 0bama consistently bashing, downplaying, or ignoring social democratic policies. Imagine what would happen if the social democratic faction became the primary faciton of the D party again, as it was when social democrats FD Roosevelt or LB Johnson were President, perhaps MedicareForAll support would zoom from the already high 58% to 80%+

        How can policies that 51%+ that USians support be “the Unicorn Left”? IBW himself said he supported MedicareForAll. So either IBW himself is a “Unicorny Leftist” or perhaps he flip-flopped to being anti MedicareForAll & is a neoliberal right-winger.

        IBW, if you bash proven social democratic policies that have a great track record in civilized nations, like Canada-style MedicareForAll, you are no better than a right-winger ideologue like Rush LimpBallz. Real USians, including White women, are hurting badly every day due to the blockage of these policies.

        But many of us will fight & support these social democratic policies, & we will eventually get them despite the resistance of rightwingers, be they Rs or neoliberal Ds. 45 & under of all race/gender combinations voted for Sanders in the D Primary. We will get these policies eventually & hopefully elevate the USA into the group of Actually Civilized Nations.

        • If you wait for 2020 you won’t have any of those false dreams of you. alt-left=alt-right…
          Take a walk…

        • Yes, social democracy rocks.

          I do not bash it.

          However, my tribe are a stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, who have spent year after year consistently rejecting social democracy because they don’t want the N-people getting any of it.

          Because of the Civil Rights Act, my tribe abandoned the Democratic Party–BEFORE, REPEAT, BEFORE it acknowledged the abandonment and sought support elsewhere.

          I don’t know what alternate Earth you get your statistics from, but on this Earth, white Americans are some of the most self-destructively mean and stupid goat-f^&%ing morons ever to pollute the surface of the planet, and they will consistently shoot themselves in both feet, then bitch at liberals because their feet hurt.

          I despise them. I deserve a better tribe.

          Now. Go. Away.

          Seriously, RD, can this insufferable proof of the Horseshoe Theory please be banned from this blog? I would like to forget he exists.

          • source: http://act.boldprogressives.org/survey/pci_bigideas_poll_results/

            from the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, that conducted a scientific, statistically valid, poll of USians

            “Single Payer Healthcare Via Medicare” has 51% overall (Ds/Rs/Independents) support, 79% Ds support.

            Check out all the other policies you insult as Unicorny & FairyDusty that have majoritarian support.

            Full Employment Act – eg a Job Guarantee 70%
            Debt-Free College At All Public Universities
            Free Community College
            Expand Social Security Benefits
            Green New Deal — Millions Of Clean-Energy Jobs
            Infrastructure Jobs Program – $400 Billion / Year
            Public Funding Of Congressional Elections (49%, a plurality)

            E.g. they are mainstream, centrist positions among actual USians, not Unicorny nor Far-Left. E.g. if the US were to live up to being a democracy, since they don’t contradict the Constitution, these policies would be enacted into law.

            Both the 45 & Under cohort, as well as enlightened older people cohort (like Dr. Stein, Sanders, Dr. Noam Chomsky, etc), will not be silent when the right-wing (Rs or neoliberal D) naysayers denigrate & falsely accuse PROVEN POLICIES that MAJORITIES OF USians want as Far-Left.

            RIP the failed neoliberal D era 1992-2016. Time for a NewerDeal, word to FD Roosevelt.

            PS – American heroes like those in the abolitionist movement, woman suffrage movement, civil rights movement, 40 hour workweek, etc; were denigrated & called Fairy Dusty by the small minded, vision-lacking, simpletons of their time as well. These people fought to increase human rights, as do we today supporting social democratic policies that increase human rights for USians.

          • PND places vastly more faith in the basic decency and wisdom of non-elite white Americans than I do. He also places vastly more faith in polls than I do. He believes in “the people” because of how a sample of them answered a poll. I disbelieve in “the people” because I observe how they actually vote, and have voted.

            He maintains his faith despite the plain historical fact that non-elite white Americans spent the late 1960s and 1970s abandoning the Democratic Party: “Eeeeuwww! Hippies and heathens and n****r-lovers!”

            He either did not read the Driftglass links above, or dismissed them if he did read them.

            If Senator Sanders had been nominated and run on PND’s dream platform, The Donald would have crushed Bernie.

            Of course, PND never mentions that the Supreme Joke gutted the Voting Rights Act, or that GOP state legislatures seized the opportunity to craft laws that disenfranchised likely Democratic voters with surgical precision, or that the Corporate Media metaphorically fellated The Donald for months, while obsessing over e-mails, or that a hostile foreign power tampered with our elections. Nope, it’s all the fault of Crooked Hillary and those Evil Establishment Democrats. 🙄

          • And no, I don’t prostrate myself in trembling awe before “scientific, statistically valid” polls.

            As a wise man (Twain, IIRC) said, “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” 😉

    • Please. Yes, let’s have a 49 state landslide with a Bernie candidate. The best evidence of how horrible Bernie is as a candidate is Zephyr Teachout who lost by 10 points in blue NY. She was one of three who were pure enough to merit the Bernie endorsement.

      • @G6D: Only 49 states? 😉

      • IIRC the polling data had Sanders defeating ConManDon Trump by an mean of 10%, whereas HClinton could only beat ConManDon by a mean of 2%, within the margin of error.

        IIRC 12% of the 0bama 2008, 0bama 2012 voters, voted ConManDon 2016. Obviously this cohort not the Racism Trump voter cohort, it is likely the economic populist cohort that liked Trump’s pro-USian job rhetoric on TPP, infrastructure spending (whether Trump actually was earnest or just lying is TBD, Trump is perhaps the biggest Flip Floppa politician ever, even moreso than HClinton or Mint RawMoney). Anyways this economic populist Trump-voting cohort would’ve likely voted Sanders in a Sanders v Trump race, Sanders is an actual lifelong economic populist, much more credible than ConManDon.

        TL;DR: Sanders would’ve crushed Trump in the Nov election. Not sure why HillaryBots deny this or needlessly hate on Sanders & claim otherwise now that the election is over.

        But I know IBW, you hate the scientific method & math (reminds me of Republicans hating science), & prefer to Just Make Stuff Up.

        • I spent 23 years practicing the scientific method. And while I SUCK at arithmetic, I’m pretty sure I’ve got more math under my belt after two semesters of p-Chem than you will see in your lifetime.
          There’s a good reason sanders lost. He was unelectable. The opp research on him was substantial.
          Hillary was as good a candidate as you will ever find and for some reason we have been conditioned to feel ashamed of her because she used a personal email server. This is ridiculous.
          You had a choice in November 8. It was either going to be Hillary or Trump. Jill Stein was not ever going to get elected and writing sanders in was throwing away your vote if you were in a swing state.
          If you didn’t vote for Hillary, then you lost your right to fucking complain about anything.

        • You’re being moderated because you are no longer adding anything to the comments.
          It doesn’t matter how many times you submit the same comment, it’s not going to get thru.
          Resistance is useless.

        • That is old information and before the GOP put up billboards calling Sanders an environmental racist who dumped nuclear waste on a poor Hispanic community of which his wife is still on the board of directors. The GOP had an entire 2 feet thick file on Sanders even to the point of him marching with the Sandinistas saying Yankee will die and supporting them was “patriotic”. Read the entire piece . it rips your entire argument to pieces. http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

        • Did I make up the pre-1980 mass defection of Democrats to the GOP?

          • They didn’t defect because they thought the Democrats weren’t socialist enough, and that the Republicans would be more socialist.

        • Now that you’re unwelcome here, PND, why don’t you try Ian Welsh’s site? It’s chock-full of Clinton-hatin’ Unicorn Leftists. You’ll love it there. 😛

  12. Off-topic: RD, I notice that many of the generic names for the fashionable prescription drugs advertised on TV end in “ab”. Since pharmaceutical chemistry is your stock in trade, can you explain the significance, if any, of that?

  13. Some of the wingnuts are griping because they don’t think The Donald is getting a “honeymoon” from the media.

    If their Orange Messiah wanted a honeymoon, he should have won the popular vote, and done so without the help of Boris Badenov. 😛

  14. I wonder what evil things I did in a previous life, that the Ascended Madoka saw fit to punish me by having me be born into, and live my life among, such an infuriatingly and heartbreakingly stupid tribe as the White Murkans?

  15. It made it to mainstream CNN:

    Computer scientists urge Clinton campaign to challenge election results


    • Again, the goal was to beat him decisively. This scenario of recounting because the comp scientists say there *might* be something off is the worst possible position for her to be in.
      The best route at the present time IMHO is to continue to apply pressure on Trump until it is absolutely clear that he would be dangerous to elect. I think the electoral college is the only hope now.
      And yes, I think it’s possible to do it.

      • I hear you and we working hard on the electoral college possibilities…

        Yet, we won’t make it easy for them and are pushing all the buttons to bring clarity to this fraud.

        The Talk on Twitter:

        “If the Repubs lost a close election, w/FBI meddling and foreign hacking, THIS WHOLE THING WOULD BE RECOUNTED.”

        Every. damn. district. DO IT

        • I’ve personally been subject to computer hacking three times by insurances’ foes in the past 7 years -and still are.

          I’ve been using computers since 1980 and built 3 of them on my own and considered myself knowledgeable enough to assess that in these times with the technologies driving our lives, anybody can -hack/clone/alter/corrupt, etc. computerized machines of any type.

          There are professionals making a good living and kids just been mischievous, dedicated to these activities, breaking systems.

  16. Arizona stopped counting on November 11 with est. 80% in…

    Why are they not counting the votes? have they finished the count?

    Anybody from Arizona that can bring some light into this?

  17. RD: Can you elaborate on why you think the EC may still be a possibility? It sounds like the few potential faithless electors are looking for a decent Repub to substitute for the Yam. Why wouldn’t it default to Clinton? Doesn’t the EC vote also have to go to the House if it doesn’t confirm the Nov 8 outcome?

    • You’re right. I’m thinking rationally and nothing about 2016 is rational.
      Let’s say the faithless electors looked for a Republican substitute. Why would that have any more legitimacy? Would you accept a President Kasich? Sure, it’s like picking tuberculosis rather than pancreatic cancer but Kasich wasn’t on the ballot and he got exactly no States.
      But if Trump is not viable, and I think the ugly truth will all be out there in couple weeks, then it is more rational to give the election to the person who won the most votes. That would be Clinton. You could ask MI, WI and PA to vote for her or you could have all of them go all in to provide cover for each other.
      Ok, but the trump supporters wouldn’t like this. No problem. Just make Pence the VP. Hillary and Mike would be the oddest couple in history but it’s not unprecedented to split tickets like this. The advantage to that is that Kaine stays in the senate and the best you get is two more years of gridlock.
      At this point, I would take the gridlock.
      Your mileage may vary.
      It wouldn’t hurt for Clinton to ask for a recount of MI, WI and PA. Just raising the possibility of electoral shenanigans may prompt some reluctant electors to dump Trump. It will be “out there” as cokie Roberts would say. Do I think there was hacking? I don’t know. Do I think Trump would engage in it if he thought he could get away with it? Absolutely.

    • It only goes to the House if there is a tie.
      It only takes one tie breaker.

      • Hmmm. So the electors could decide the pres AND VP, even select someone not on the ballot, no further validation required unless there is a tie in the EC? Their options are that wide open? I guess their argument for a Kasich or a Romney would be the Repub Party won even if their candidate was unacceptable or Hillary would be worse than Donald. Like you, I thought the rational default for the EC would be to the highly qualified opponent on the ballot, esp if she had the popular vote so I was surprised when I read of an alt Repub scenario. Then again, if it could be proven the election results were jiggered by the repubs not the Russians that should delegitimize any Repub. The EC concept is so f****ed up in this day and age. My head hurts.

        Oh, RD, thanks so much for all you did to GOTV (overflowing toilet was above and beyond in my book). You wear a big white hat in my sad world, so thanks for that.

        • IMHO, if the EC rejected Donald and did NOT choose Hillary, then we would have to accept the fact that there is something deeply wrong with our system. Then there really would be protests.
          Yes, early in the days of the US, it happened a couple of times that the EC would make the decision or a deal was struck or the president from one party had to live with the Vice President of another.
          And they are obligated to not saddle us with someone who is unsuitable for one reason or another. They are supposed to be responsible not just partisan.
          But like I said, there is nothing rational about this year.

  18. Riverdaughter

    I really hate to wade into the big muddy here.
    Your Thomas Cromwell citations from Hilary Mantel are well observed!
    But regarding the imminent death of Social Security & Medicare at the hands of Mr Blowfish, recall that Obama offered up those very same human sacrifices to the GOP zombies in the 2011 so-called “Grand Bargain” (to my mind a sin that cannot be whitewashed away,ever!). Lucky for us the GOP zombies rejected their own 80-year old wet dream only because it was offered to them by “the black guy”. But do not doubt for a minute that a Prez Hillary would have offered up the same human sacrifices to the zombies at the first “can’t we all get along?” opportunity. This time, of course, they would have accepted the deal.

    ps: belated b’day greetings…

    • I firmly believe that Hillary Clinton would never be so stupid or politically tone deaf as to sacrifice social security and Medicare.
      I don’t care what you heard about her husband looking into it. I think he knew it was DOA when he got the report. Obama was just not a very good politician.
      I have absolutely no idea where you would get the insane notion that Hillary would have done such a thing. All evidence points to the opposite conclusion.
      But Paul Ryan and the other Republicans have been gunning for it since the programs were created. They won’t waste any time. It’s going to be a laissez fairer, free market bonanza.
      You should have voted for the girl, Bernard. And I don’t mean Jill Stein.
      Of course, if you’re already retired, don’t worry about a thing. It’s not YOUR problem. It’s the problem of those of us who are not nearly old enough to retire, have lost our good jobs and are working for half as much and have been forced to dip in to our 401ks who have to worry.
      We’re screwed. If you had anything to do with that, god is going to get you.

      • Don’t give me the evil eye, Riverdaughter. I hate these GOP undead even more than you do.

        • Then your only rational choice was Hillary. If you did not vote for Hillary, you might as well have voted for Trump.

  19. Ok, people. Jill Stein (!) is raising money today on her website http://www.jill2016.com/recount_splash for a recount of WI, MI, PA. She’s raised almost 1 mil after only a few hours. Must raise $1.1 mil by Friday in order to get a recount of WI; the others’ deadline are Monday. She’s a candidate–of course she can do this. We didn’t think of that! She’s not being threatened with being locked up…

    I don’t think much of Stein, but I’m very glad about this. Maybe she got riled up when Trump announced he’s cutting NASA’s climate change division. I donated.

    • Lad V:
      Thank you so much for the link on Jill Stein recount action.
      I’ve donated too.

      This is the kind of coalition we need to have to save our democracy.
      Let’s unify for our Country.

      i:e; that’s what the repubs of all agendas did to hijack the election, they unified behind an unlikely leader..

      • Scientists all over the country are concurring… first IL, now MIT & UC Berkeley. Possibility of voting being hacked by Russians must be investigated, and votes recounted. One small WI county revised its totals after the total number of ballots counted for Trump exceeded the total number of residents. Here we go!

  20. Recount effort has less than $1Mil to go. Amazing how fast $ has been raised for this! There is enough for WI (deadline was this Friday). Wonder if more recounts will be done if there is more than the $2.5 mil donated.

  21. Happy Birthday, RD, and I wish it were a better time all around. All this is spoiling the holidays, the college sports, and most else. I still hold out a tiny bit of hope for a deus ex machina, but things have gone so badly in this election, that it does not seem likely. Every possible thing which could have been fixed against us, has been. I can think of a hundred different scenarios of, if only this one thing had not happened, or at that time;and Hillary would have won despite the others happening. It is like every institution that we counted on, has proven corrupt, biased, or abysmally stupid.

    Your earlier thoughts that Obama should not have taken Hillary’s sure victory in ’08, and made it a weaker one, and a far too compliant and compromising presidency, are probably the key. That was her time, running against a very unpopular Republican Party, and with a financial crisis two months before the election. And against a candidate who would not have slandered her. And that terrible mistake by the DNC and by the media, was always going to haunt us. If Democrats didn’t lose all those Congressional seats and statehouses under Obama, there would not have been all this gerrymandering and voter suppression. We didn’t even get the swing seat on the Supreme Court, because we didn’t fight for it, and let Republicans simply violate the Constitution and hold the seat hostage until they took power again.

    You are right that the Electoral College, which would otherwise be complietely useless and redundant, was set up for just this kind of thing, keeping a totalitarian psychopath from taking over. But even putting aside a different century, electors from this era are not nearly as well versed on issues and temperaments as those earlier ones. These ones will just do the safest thing, the thing that the media and most of the population expects them to. Of course, if it had been the other way around the press would be demanding that Hillary not take the office, and either share it with Trump, or let him have it wholly. Because, “she was not the true winner, she did not win the popular vote, lost by 3 million!” People would already be marching on Washignton and shooting people. Electors do not want to be shot, they want to go home and have Christmas dinner, and be left alone, even though they actually were the ones who elected the most unqualifiied person ever, and risked the complete destruction of the democracy, if not the entire country.

  22. Votes should be determined by people not acreage.

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