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Pinpointing where it went wrong: Donna Brazile vs Paul Begala, May 6, 2008

On the evening of May 6, 2008 on CNN, Donna Brazile took a knife to the Democratic party and deftly excised the parts that were no longer needed:

You can read the whole exchange here. Here’s the money quote from Donna:

BRAZILE: Well, Lou, I have worked on a lot of Democratic campaigns, and I respect Paul. But, Paul, you’re looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don’t have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Paul Begala had a “Are you MAD, woman??” response but the Obama contingent was so giddily orgasmic, no one was paying attention.

Then the crash happened and the Great Recession when a lot of the old coalition lost their jobs. The ACA was not the panacea we were told it was. The policies are very expensive still, not everyone gets a subsidy, the deductibles are too high and the networks too stingy.

But the new coalition told us to suck it up because the pre-existing conditions were covered. And who could argue with that? It was a neat guilt trip that was played on us.

In the subsequent years, there have been a lot of things that have happened to the working class and the people who are in the middle class but just one devastating layoff from sliding out of their socio-economic group. Oh sure, there are jobs now. But there are also a lot of contingent workers, part time workers, full time contractors without benefits. Ooo! But now you can buy one of those expensive new ACA policies on the exchanges.

There are now two classes of employees out there, the ones that are covered by an employee health plan and the suckers who aren’t. When you are in the second class, you really feel the difference and it can cause resentment and anger. I have *been* there, people. I have had snooty, lucky liberals look down on me and tell me that if I don’t maintain an expensive health insurance policy on my low contractor worker’s salary, then I was being irresponsible, the equivalent of a dead beat. This after years of paying the equivalent in taxes to what I was then making in salary for one year. Yes, the fortunate were telling me I was irresponsible after all the money I paid year after year before Pharmageddon and we all lost our jobs. It’s hard to forget that. I was =><= close to feeling the Bern.

Let’s not even start on who retires with a full pension today and who doesn’t and who is forced to put their retirement savings on the global craps table controlled by the finance industry when not even one banker went to jail. Dodd Frank means nothing if there’s no punishment in sight and the malefactors of great wealth get off with a tidy payment of weregild.

Meanwhile, the old coalition shambles by on $10/hour jobs with Medicaid for their kids.

And for the last eight years, they’ve been told that if they complain about their shitty lot in life, they’re racists. I don’t know how many times I have read Paul Krugman or Digby or some former Obama campaign troll tell me this. I think the last straw was when Digby accused the Republicans of being racists for not approving Merrick Garland’s appointment to the USSC. The reason they weren’t going to approve Garland is because they are Republicans and they didn’t want to tip the balance of the court in a progressive direction. It had nothing to do with racism or at least not directly. Witness the approval of Elena Kagan and Sonya Sotomayor. They didn’t have a problem with those two new justices for Obama. And Garland is a white guy. He’s Jewish but so are Kagan and Ginsburg. So, it wasn’t a race issue or a religious issue. It was purely a power issue.

And yet, Digby told us over and over and over again that it was racist for the Republicans to not approve him. It was the last straw that made the out of touch voices on the left lose all credibility.

I think the Democrats took us for suckers for many many years. I am a Democrat and I worked almost every weekend since July to get my party’s representatives elected. I truly believe that Clinton was the best presidential candidate that we have ever had. I have no regrets working to get her elected. She made me proud to be a Democrat.

But I will not miss the Obama years and the tone deaf assholes who wrote off the “old coalition” and dismissed the anxiety of the Bernie Sanders middle class voters I met. Clinton did her best to reach out to them and wisely adopted much of the Sanders’ platform. That is to her credit and many Sanders volunteers recognized that.

But she could not overcome the insults to the intelligence and the invalidation of the feelings of so many working class people of all races and ethnicities. When Obama wrote off Appalachia and the rust belt and Donna praised the new coalition and put the old coalition on an ice floe, it was only a matter of time before the old coalition’s future looked dire enough to strike back.

They were wrong, of course. They didn’t drain the swamp. They just got more swamp monsters and these are going to eat them. But if I learned anything from Hillary and Bill it’s that you can’t afford to alienate anyone in politics.

It’s a lesson the Obama contingent is only now starting to understand.

More on The Rage, misogyny and the media’s shameful part in this catastrophe from Todd Gitlin at Moyers.

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129 Responses

  1. I am finding that the only small solace I am getting, is to find intelligent articles or posts which might capture some of the sentiments and thoughts whcih I have, but which most analysts miss entirely. So your comments above were welcome to see. Also, and I apologize for being a luddite who canot link anything, there is a very good article which I think you will enjoy; it is at the Washington Post, and it is called, “Donald Trump and the end of history.” One of the most interesting aspects was the writer’s conception that many white middle class males have become so bored, so frustrated by the mundanity of their daily lives, that they almost perversely have rebelled against the entire modern arc of progress and reasonable economic security.

    I have always agreed with you that Obama should not have won in 2008, Hillary should have. Like in a Shakespeare history play, the natural order was wrenched, with terrible later consequences. For me, Hillary is the natural continuation of the ideals and policies of the New Deal, the liberalism of Stevenson, Kennedy’s more pragmatic New Frontier, Johnson’s Great Society; and then Bill Clinton’s New American Compact, or whtatever he called it. The focus on the middle class, economic anxiety, a promise of a better future for all. Obama, while I think a very decent person, was really politically unformed at the point he ran. As you note, the bankers liked him. He wanted to run as someone transcending partisan politics; the Republicans were not his enemy. He might have finally learned that they were, but too late. Under Obama and his “coalition,” we lost 10 senate seats, about 95 House seats, most of the state houses, in six years. His coalition would not come out for midterms. And worst of all, some of his coalition, and that includes media people in it, would not really support anyone but him; it was not transferable. That doesn’t make him extra special, it means that it was more about personality and an important social statement, but nothing else.

    I like Bill Clinton more than most seem to now. Put aside the personal failings, but he was and is a very caring person who wanted to help the middle class, and who could talk to them in their language. We need that. Sanders does not have that, he is an old-line Brooklyn Socialist. Warren does not have that gift, though she will excite the Left, which prefers to virtuously lose all the elections. Bill Clinton had it. Hilllary actually has it, too, even though she obviously lacks Bill’s rhetorical gifts. But Hillary was swamped by a scornful media who simply did not ever cover her very good economic speeches and messages. Even today, people are saying, “well, Hillary didn’t offer anything of a positive plan,” when the truth is that she offered all sorts of them.. She would have done more for the middle class than anyone since her husband, and maybe more, if the Right didn’t try to stop her at every turn, and the media not be able to rise above their petty spitefulness and stupidity.

    Now, of course we need African Americans in our party, they have been very loyal, although some of that is now fraying with identity politics; and they strongly voted for Hillary, though not as much as for Obama; and they did not turn out largely enough, though insidious voter suppression was part of that. But I personally never believed that the Brazile coalition was the way to go. Brazile botchd up Gore’s 2000 campaign; she botches up most things, but always lands well. If the Democratic Party becomes the party of disparate minoriities which increasingly find their own separate voice, and thus squabble for priority, we will lose elections like this. 100,000 votes in three formerly reliable “Rust Belt” states, cost us the best potential president I have ever seen Sanders caused some of it with his incessant attacking of Hillary for “ties to Wall Street,.” Trump just copied those lines.The Democratic Left has always hated the Clintons. Somehow “the first Black president” is now being blamed by radical BLM types for locking up everybody. No one wants a classical liberal any more; they want someone who “inspires” them, like Obama, even though Obama didn’t accomplish all tht much, because he was more interested in his ACA than in fighting for a major stimulus; and then let the right wing roll over hiim for the next six years. And where is our swing Justice; why didn’t he just appoint him in the recess, and then let the Republicans try to dislodge him? Maybe they could have saved the VRA. Now we are going to see Ted Cruz or someone just as evil. Even now, while I understand the probity of it, Obama is trying to normalize the Trump ascension. And the fact that he got eight years,and be will be extolled by most Democratic historians; while Hillary, who was so much better, will get none, and will be blamed for Trump winning, is completely wrong, unfair, and immensely hard to take.

    As upset as I am about all of what has happened, mostly the loss of Hillary, who would have been a great president, even with the harrassment she would have gotten from the Republicans and the media; I am really concerned about the lesson which Democrats will take from this. I already see Sanders acting like he is the titular head of the party. People blaming Hillary for being a coroporate hack, and demanding that we turn to Sanders or Warren or another Black candidate..Keith Ellison should not be DNC chair, but he will be. Nothing against him necessarily (though he was a Sanders supporter), but if the Demorcrats think that they will win by turning to racial identity politics,they will lose, just like they lost in the 70’s and ’80’s with a string of ineffectual White candidates.

    Bill Clnton and his ability to connect with White working class voters saved the Demoratic Party Obama probably wouldn’t have won at all, had it not been fof the economic meltdown in September of ’08. I was thinking yesterday that if McCain had won, Hillary would have beaten him in 2012, and then have been reelected this year. Obama took away Hillary’s sure vicotory in ’08, and now we are left with real darkness ahead. And we are at real risk of having given the Republicans a foothold in the Rust Belt, meaning that we will never win the electoral vote. Our only hope is someone like Sherrod Brown, or maybe Chris Murphy. Jason Kander,who lost in a red state, might be another model for the kind of candidate we need. If we do not know how to speak to white middle class voters, the non-racist ones, we will lose most elections, and we will certainly never retake the Congress. But we will likely take the wrong lessons from what just happpened, and somehow think that we need to recapture the illusory “Obama coalition,” and that white voters who voted for McCain and Romney were all unrepentant racists.

    I know that this is a very long essay, but it is cathartic to say what I think needs to be said, in a place where some might be receptive to it. It is going to be a long, cold winter, and an unbearable four years or more. So thank you for the space to do so.

    • As always, William, a thoughtful and very intelligent essay.

    • How, exactly, is a politician who went along with gutting of Glass-Steagall, one cornerstone upon which post-Depression economic stability was built, could possibly be a continuation of New Deal politics and policy?
      There’s a reason the period from ˜1945 to ˜1980 was called the Great Moderation. It was because of the very policies Bill and Hillary Clinton so eagerly dismantled.

      Ah, but she wasn’t a Senator then, you say. But the very people who remind us of that are those who tell us her time as first lady counts as part of her vast experience, and that she was in fact so smart her husband relied on her. If we accept that, then we must accept his surrender to the anti-regulation fundamentalists was also supported by her.

      And Democrats continue to overstate Bill Clinton’s supposed magic with white working class voters. I used to do so myself.
      The 1992 popular vote breakdown was Clinton 43.0%, Bush 37.4%, and Perot 18.9%.
      Do you really think those Perot voters would all have gone for Clinton?

      You cannot learn from history, or come to conclusions, until you actually learn the history, look at the facts, and make yourself willing to jettison your received wisdom and beliefs when the facts don’t corroborate them.

  2. I think that my very long but heartfelt post went into moderation because I used the word “racist.” I forgot that this triggers some kind of automatic moderating mechanism!

  3. I think that my very long but heartelt post went into moderation, because I used a perfectly acceptable word starting with “r,” which I forgot automatically sends it to moderation.

  4. Yep. Well said.
    We are the party of “elites” now.
    I became a Dem at age 18 partly cuz I didn’t want to be an “elite.”
    I am, at 72, devastated and horrified.
    Drain the swamp indeed.

  5. It’s hard to run for a third term–our elections aren’t that close and usually half the population wants new blood. The President personifies the country, but his agenda is hobbled without a Congress that is willing to work for the overall good of the people. I wasn’t a fan of O, but he was obstructed from Day 1 by R. leadership. The economy was shattered, and Hillary more than likely would have done a better job of rebuilding it –she was ready for the housing crash. Almost none of the scam artists were punished, but voters returned O, albeit with fewer votes. The ACA was a compromise, but a starting point. (Now Ryan is using the ACA as a reason to gut Medicare. Illogical as well as vile.)

    Not sure Hillary could have brought us single payer with an R. Congress. Besides, it would have been emphasizing endless investigations to prevent any legislation that would look good for Dems and not promote tax cuts for the wealthy).

    I believe that Hillary’s praising of O helped rise his poll numbers and his campaigning helped more than hurt her. (O’s emphasizing tran bathrooms in N.C. wasn’t going to help her with low-educated white voters based on my experience of living outside of Blue Zones. Many states of mind are just not there yet.)

    What is most shocking to me is the content of the character of the Electoral College’s winning candidate. Even sadder is that he appears to be the candidate of choice of the FBI and Russia. He was able to project his flaws onto an exceptional public servant and have them stick. I never thought the American people would fall for such a bad hair dye job. Believe me.

    What I wonder is how many decades have the steel mills been gone? American manufacturing made goods that last. When I look around my house, I admire things “Made in America”–still working long after most Chinese junk is piling up in the landfill. Why are the former workers’ Congressional reps not helping them? Are they still electing representatives from the same party that has failed them at the local level? Hillary figured out what could be done in Upstate New York to create new jobs. Have these former mill workers not considered the example of Pittsburg? It thrives post-steel mills, doesn’t it?

    The former steel mill workers in a Pa. town featured on NPR/BBC segment fell for the Reality Star who flew into town in his own plane to get their vote. He said he would rebuild their steel mills.

    After the election, workers were interviewed in a cafe. They expect Trump to make good on the steel mills–and they were equally enthusiastic that he is going to jail Hillary and Obama.

    • The steel mills are long gone. That’s never coming back. Ever.
      Pittsburgh is beautiful, diverse and a world leader in robotics. Those who do not adapt die.

      • Exactly what I thought (even here in my bubble within a bubble blue zone). Amazing what curiosity and reading can do for one’s perspective.

      • Of course, you’re right, but how are people who are not smart enough for the new economy supposed to make ends meet?
        That’s kind of a taboo subject, but I’ve been wondering and worrying about this for thirty years.

        • Exactly. Some people simply can’t be retrained, or trained in the first place, but we can’t just abandon them.

          Eventually, we’re just going to have to adopt a universal basic income support, and use the government’s PR machine to get rid of the idea that accepting aid is somehow shameful.

          • I lost my decently-paying old job to automation, not to an immigrant. Maybe that’s why the “Immigrants are taking your jobs!!!1!” propaganda never worked on me.

          • I wonder why local elected officials aren’t working with their constituents. The mayor of the town wanted Trump to at least have his baseball caps manufactured there. The town once had a fabric manufacturer.

            Why wait for a Presidential candidate to fly into town and make false promises decades later? Maybe lower-level elected officials need to have been voted out if they can’t move the dial. These former steel workers have survived somehow; I assume they have jobs, just not higher paying ones in the old steel mills.

            Seems cruel because the steel mills won’t come back, but smart manufacturing can, and most jobs don’t require college training. Vocational training anyone? I agree with the Zen Buddhist view that all work that is not destructive has value in the scheme of things. The mayor described his town as looking bombed out? What about weekend projects to beautify a building at a time in the downtown area. Shared ownership of these buildings. Band together and buy a coffee machine and some coffee beans?

  6. All that is true. But the catastrophe happened because of an incompetent campaign. The ground game was a joke. Her advisors were not up to the job, out of date strategies, failures to connect with the reality around them and much more. I don’t get it why did she have to turn to the people who failed her over and over again.

    • Ok, I was part of that ground game and I know that the African Americans, young guys. Lbgtq peopke, Bernie people who poured thru my front door in numbers so great that I couldn’t keep up with them would really resent the implication that her ground game was off. Trump had ZERO ground game here. We were crawling all over each other. She made multiple trips to Pittsburgh including the weekend before the election.
      She was headed for a landslide before the Comey letter and the media jumped right on it. That’s what killed her. Period.

      • A well-oiled ground game, devoted volunteers, and Hilary worked her heart out. I don’t think she could personally have flown into the rust belt areas and made false promises, but she could deliver well-thought out plans simply. Because she knows what the job entails and is highly ethical, she was not going to go for the low-hanging fruit of promising a free lunch (formerly “a chicken in every pot”). There is no free lunch.

        She is still winning the popular vote. What do you attribute that to?

        The real stretch is that a voter has to be able to think critically when a candidate is being unfairly attacked. Even by the time I was analyzing Hillary in 2007, the right-wing smear machine had infiltrated my mind.
        I read Pulitzer-prize winning author James Stewart’s book” Bloodsport” about the faux Whitewater “scandal” and ended up admiring the Clintons even more.

        The email “scandal”–a big nothing unless one assumes that a Secretary of State is dealing in espionage and fostering treason. The real scandal is that the FBI is so lame that it didn’t know about the private email server for years (but probably did and used it to get rid of a real change maker). Hillary used it as Senator and Dept. of State IT specialists secured it for her use at State. Her email address indicated that it was not a state server. State servers are not for classified data, but different government department have different classifications so probably any employee at State has been “cc’d” with “classified” data from some government entity.

        Hillary didn’t use email much. She preferred to meet face-to-face. Had diplomatic pouches delivered to her homes for evening study.

        The FBI has an illustrious history. I wasn’t in Washington more than two weeks before I knew about Hoover’s crossdressing and live-in boyfriend Tolson, associate director of the FBI for 42 years. Supposedly, Hoover couldn’t admit the existence of the Mafia in this country because he was being blackmailed by it. But it seems that Hoover had dirt on everyone.

        Donald J. Trump’s mentor Roy Cohn taught him to sue right and left. Roy Cohn is infamous for his role in the McCarthy hearings. That witch hunt went on for a decade or more before Joseph Welch stood up. (You may remember the Roy Cohn character from “Angels in America.” Pure evil.)

        From Wikipedia:

        “Joseph Nye Welch (October 22, 1890 – October 6, 1960) was the chief counsel for the United States Army while it was under investigation for Communist activities by Senator Joseph McCarthy’s Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, an investigation known as the Army–McCarthy hearings. His confrontation with McCarthy during the hearings, in which he famously asked McCarthy “At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” is seen as a turning point in the history of McCarthyism.”

        I kept waiting for some moral voice to confront Trump during the campaign. Bill Clinton would have but he got neutered at the second “debate” and hardly impartial. Hillary did so, but she stayed within the bounds of a rational candidate. I would have thought when Trump called her a “devil” on TV, that would have been the end of him.

        Is everyone else frightened of him?

        • Great comment and, yes, I’m frightened.

          • I know we are, but where is the leadership to confront him? Are they afraid? I admire Tony Schwartz for coming forward. Trump threatened to sue him, but he was courageous. How else would I know that T. has the attention span of a gnat, a 200-word vocabulary, and hasn’t read a book in his adult life? I hope Tony is in a safe place.

        • I enjoyed your post. Apparently Hillary sent out a letter where she did blame Comey and the FBI for what happened. This is exactly right–but there is never any punishment. Someone has to stand up and do something; otherwise they will do it over and over. One can’t just politely say, “good show, old sport,” and let them punch and kick you over and over. The Republicans are overjoyed, they did it to us again. It cannot be allowed to stand. I don’t quite know what can be done, but something must be tried, even if it just to boo Trump at every speech he makes. When one reads about the rise of European fascists, people will write about how something should have been done when it was not too late. This is the time here.

        • It should have been Tim Kaine confronting him, but he did no heavy lifting. Maybe a nice guy, but he was a shitty vp candidate.

          • I agree. A well-meaning guy but a nervous debater and not genuinely passionate about the important issues. Castro may have been better (woulda-coulda-shoulda, I know).

            I really don’t know who could be a strong candidate for 2020.

      • As for Trump’s zero “ground campaign,” apparently they kept a lot hidden in the “Trump bunker,” particularly a fairly extensive use of data analytics, that also aimed at discouraging Clinton voters, especially among those who vote unreliably. In an end note on my blog
        https://errorstatistics.com/2016/11/12/taking-errors-seriously-in-forecasting-elections/
        there’s a link to the Bloomberg article “Inside the Trump Bunker”, encouraging people to think it was a fledgling effort. For some reason I can’t paste that link here. Perhaps you’re already aware of it, but I found it startling.

  7. How is Sanders going to lead a party he joined briefly “for free publicity” and then left as soon as he wasn’t going to be its Presidential nominee?
    He’s an outcast in his own government body.

    Hillary’s popular vote lead expected to grow.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/clintons-popular-vote-lead-will-grow-and-grow/507455/

    Worth finding and signing the MoveOn petition to do away with the Electoral College in the future (no Constitutional Amendment necessary). Might have been hacked, it is being taken down for “review.”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clintons-popular-vote-lead-raises-questions-about-the-electoral-college/

    After Trump’s Electoral College win, Angela Merkel is the Liberal West’s Last Defender:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/world/europe/germany-merkel-trump-election.html

  8. Actually, Brazille was right for a while, as the results of the 2008 and 2012 elections indicated. However, her strategy depended on the continuing enfranchisement of non-white citizens, and she failed to foresee that the Supreme Joke would re-instate Jim Crow in 2013.

  9. RD, I was under the impression that Digby thought it was you know what to refuse Merrick Garland a hearing because that level of disrespect was unprecedented.
    Sort of like a congressman shouting “you lie” during a State of the Union speech.

    • The level of disrespect *is* unprecedented. But they approved two of his choices before. So that kinda rules out the idea that they are trying to stick it to a black president.
      They’re trying to stick it to a Democratic president. If it had been Ginsburg who died and not Scalia, they might have protested too much but they would have approved a replacement. It’s because it was one of their team that died so they sat on garland’s nomination.
      Yes, they are shits. But to put the primary blame for this on racism is really cynical and insulting to our intelligence. I was offended. Digby et al should have knocked that off four years ago. It ran its course.

  10. What about Wisconsin I was talking to someone who said there was no effort whatsoever in there. My son was telling stories about people trying to contact the campaign they wanted to volunteer and response. Thank again for you effort I wish her paid staff were as dedicated to her. It’s boggles my mind why she continued to run a traditional campaign when there was nothing normal there. Why would she go high against the lowest form of human existence. Why rerun Obama’s campaign when the population it attracted in the first place are now older with different problems and aspirations.
    I guess I am starting the anger stage although I went to the doc yesterday for medication, I can’t do it alone.

    • Her paid staff was very dedicated and worked themselves to exhaustion. But we always knew that Pennsylvania was going to be close. Maybe they just didn’t feel Wisconsin would be close.

      • RD, I have to tell you that here in Asheville, it was very little, very late.

        Her campaign seemed to rely on the local Dems. In this affluent tourist town, they are middle to upper class men and their wives. Unsurprisingly, without any contact with those who bring them their dinners or staff their breweries or clean their houses or load the trucks that deliver their goods, they went overwhelmingly for Bernie.

        I could not bring myself to associate with this bunch of sexist snobs after they voted to gift Sanders with a resolution that demanded the Democratic party’s delegates abide by the popular vote. When I went by the DNC office to see if they might let me do something non-Sandersian, their yard was wall-to-wall Bernie signs and not a single one for Hillary.

        But there was no way for a humble individual voter to contact the Hillary campaign. No way in email (no emails to her info@ address were ever acknowledged) and when I finally got in touch by phone with the national headquarters, they said there wasn’t anything set up here yet. When they finally did, three or four weeks out from the election, all but one young man from Vermont (!) were tone deaf to the sexism that rules this place.

        Because of your example, among others, I found other places in which to invest my time. One was Greensboro, where the Republicans had been especially vicious. The woman HRC coordinator was extraordinary, the men not so much, but they did get what needed to be done, done. I wish there had been more sensitivity to the granular regional differences in each area but she did better than any candidate I’ve ever, ever seen in getting ordinary people mobilized.

        While at a personal level, I could wish her “ground game” had been perfect, no male candidate I’ve ever seen has matched this.

        (oh, and the local candidate in a neigboring county, whose campaign I also worked on and who also lost: it became clear to me in the last days that she was not backing Hillary Clinton. Another “liberal” woman running away from a woman. I later found a newspaper article that attributed much of her momentum to her husband, a white (goes without saying here) upper class professional and long time Dem politico)

  11. For most of Obama’s term I bought into your argument rd. I don’t any longer, because the facts just don’t support it. Hillary didn’t lose because Obama is so unpopular (I still don’t like him but he not only won the WH twice with far more voters than Hillary, his current popularity is well above 50%.).

    No, this election turned on many things (as close elections do) from Russian ratfucking to a coup by the NYC FBI and especially our awful MSM, but ultimately Hillary lost because she lacked the part between her legs that all previous Presidents have had. Racism won Trump his voters (yes it did) and sexism kept Hillary from the votes she deserved. Sex and race (in that order) and not class that decided this one. IMO.

    • I left out sexism. Thanx for correcting that.

    • I didn’t say that obama was unpopular. I’m saying that his policies did not target the old coalition. They have made their lives more precarious. And there was no point trying to sugar coat it. People like Paul krugman, as well intentioned as he was, do not feel what happened. They saw the wins for people with pre-existing conditions and the resurgent employment stats as a win without realizing that he was asking the people with the least income stability to carry the burden of all those sick people. People on the ACA do not have the bargaining power to negotiate fees like large corporations do. So they are essentially paying full freight for millions of very sick people. And it was very insensitive and clueless for those not affected to say, oh you’re just racists. Suck it up and stop bitching. Pay for your lousy expensive policy with whatever disposable income you have for as long as you have it. You’re lucky the Republicans aren’t in charge. That is not a winning argument. And I don’t think Hillary made it. But there needed to be less telling people they’re whiners and more acknowledgement that the economy SUCKS for some people. The difference was that if you’re facing income instability and you were high school educated, you were more likely to go with Trump. If you were well educated but facing decades of layoffs and crappy insurance, you were more likely to go with Bernie.
      If you didn’t face either of those two scenarios for the last eight years, then obama was hunky dory.

    • Forgot to add that 1. Yes, the ratfucking was over the top and brazen by any standard. 2. Yes the media did her in. 3. Yes, racism and misogyny played a HUGE role. I would be totally onboard with all of that.
      But you can not tell me that racism was the only reason people voted for trump because it isn’t true. It’s just a really, grossly, indefensibly bad outcome.

      • RD, she was totally in a cleft stick, that Sanders took full advantage of.

        I never saw such wholehearted support of a white person than I did of HRC among African Americans here. That was even before the Dump made it clear what it’s policies towards them were going to be.

        In 2008, for the most part, they voted justice for race over justice for gender. Especially here, I can understand that, even if I didn’t agree with it.

        White women? In 2008, not so much – there were so many sellouts, including Amanda Marcotte and another, whose name slips my mind right now, a lesbian TV personality who’s been a complete Johnny-come-lately. They went with the men of their class, who told them to prioritize the men not of their class, until it looked like – uh, oh, they personally were going to suffer for it.

        Women who should have pushed to give her the election she’d earned sold her out in 2008. She abandoned them – as a professional woman who lost her livelihood during that time, I can again completely understand it – and went with the coalition of citizens she could help and who did recognize her.

    • I agree now –I know a woman who was enthusiastic about Hillary and had already voted by the time Comey came out with his latest stunt. She told me that she questioned her vote. This is an educated woman, late 60s, former Bernie supporter, but not someone who follows politics very closely at all. She had no idea what the email scandal was, but the fact that the FBI was involved and pressing it, made her feel that something was deeply wrong. The thing about the email “scandal” is that it can’t really be expressed in three short sentences. I tried to distill it, and it takes paragraphs. The woman’s eyes glazed over, but she ended up feeling better.

    • I am waiting for something to happen to Comey or the FBI or the Republicans, but it never does. So they keep doing it. No penalty for cheating or lying or sticking a shiv in someone’s back. They play to win, and winning to them means by any means. Our side plays Marquis of Queensbury all the way. And we lose. And we get cheated. And we have Republicans in every statehouse, and they’ll dominate the Court for another forty years; and they have the House and Senate, and the FBI, and the media. Of course, the media performs their laundering for them, always urging that Democrats make nice with their tormenters, that it would be better for the country. Republicans get to do anything they want. It might just possibly be the time for Democrats to figure that if you ain’t got nothing, you got nothing to lose; and that they are representing 67 million heartbroken people, and a another five million or so disenfranchised people, who did everything they reasonably could to help Hillary win, and fight fascism.

      • William:
        Me too.
        I can believe he is getting away with his blatantly overt coup to the democratic election process.
        And Obama who is still president, does not ask for his resignation?
        why?

  12. Did she make you proud to be a Democrat when she gave her justifications for voting to give Bush the unilateral power to start a war?
    I listened to every single Senator’s speech that was broadcast on radio.

    Go on, tell me how I should get over it and it’s all in the past. Oh wait, I gave Kerry and Edwards a pass on this. Never mind. Everything I wrote from this point on must be read with that in mind. I have inexplicably blamed ONLY Clinton for the war.
    Forget what I said about sexism. We only hold women accountable… for everything. What was I thinking??

    Except yesterday was Veterans Day and I was forced to think again of the fellow soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who died in Iraq, thanks to twenty-eight spineless or gullible Democrats. Like Hillary Clinton.

    Geez, there I go again acting like this blog owner has never had any direct experience with a veteran. Totally forgot her dad is buried at Ft Indiantown Gap. Vietnam and Korea. And her brother is active army.

    I have never heard a more infuriating, craven, and insulting example of a politician talking out of both sides of their mouth.

    Maybe I just haven’t thought hard enough about this though. Joe Lieberman was pretty bad. And then there was Jon Edwards. Ha! Remember how everybody wanted to join his circus in 2007? Fun times.

    That was her moment. That was her test. That was when her presidential campaign was going to be won or lost. That was when she was going to show us what she was made of, to show us if she had principles or not.

    Damn, forgot all about CHIP. and the FISA bill she voted against that obama voted for.

    She failed a couple more times after this, but this was the worst.

    For eight years you’ve been telling us how much smarter she is than everyone else and that’s why she should be president. Except she had two chances and both times lost fair and square. She wasn’t smart enough to outplay Obama, and then wasn’t smart enough to realize the country, and many from her own party would prefer an insurgent like Sanders.

    Oh, yeah, totally forgot that RD was a Sanders fan but didn’t think anyone was going to vote for him after the media raked him over the coals.

    Competent is as competent does. Your champion failed twice and failed morally in 2002.

    What am I saying?? Trump hasn’t got a moral cell in his body. I guess I can’t relate because I don’t have a pussy.

    It didn’t help her that Obama also showed his spinelessness in appointing a former counsel for the Whitewater committee to head the FBI.

    On that, RD and I agree.

    I HATE Trump. I hate that I have 15 months left on my Reserves contract after active duty, and I will have to call him my commander-in-chief for one year. Thank you for that Democrats.

    Or maybe I should blame the people who didn’t vote at all. And what’s with the electoral college anyway?? Clinton won 2,000,000 more votes and she still loses. WTF??

    But as I get used to this new reality, I’ve also begun to find great satisfaction in watching Clinton lose.
    She deserved it. She earned her loss. Go on and blame sexism, blame the media, blame racism, blame others, blame everyone but the smart, most qualified candidate ever™ who wanted the ultimate job where the buck stops with her.

    I don’t know how to reply to this. I’ve never seen a candidate work so hard to overcome so many obstacles. If you can’t recognize that, then there’s nothing we can say to you. You simply weren’t paying attention. I hope no candidate ever has to go thru that ever again. It was awful to watch.

    Good riddance Clintons. I hope we never have to hear about them again. Just go away so the rest of us can begin to figure out how to ensure Trump doesn’t stack the Supreme Court with closet fascists.

    For eight years your analysis of many topics has been enlightening. But not this topic.

    Like I give a fuck.

    • Troll cleanup in aisle 3. 😛

      • Thanks, IBW. This stuff makes me want to scream. After thousands of decisions and after being Secretary of State, visiting leaders the world over and actually succeeding in repairing our in-the-toilet reputation after 8 years of Bush-Cheney destruction, they keep dredging up ONE decision by a Senator from NY, decimated in 2001, who was bound by her job to give voice to the preference of the citizens of NY at that time–a decision NOT to “start a war,” but to support and encourage diplomatic efforts by the POTUS, who was to return to Congress if they didn’t work, before invading anyone–which Bush did not do.

        Yet, they blame Hillary for this. Unbelievable. They are never, ever going to be satisfied by anyone. Reality is imperfect, and so are each and every one of us–including them.

        • The trolls are rather thick on this blog lately; I wonder why.

          • b/c this blog is a sane place for Hillary supporters to get together. It has the best of people with reason and passion. And for that, trolls are determined to run it to ground.

          • No cleanup?

        • I’ll get around to it later. 🙃
          In the meantime, don’t respond to them. Any point you make in response might get deleted.
          They’re annoyances but they cannot hurt you.

    • Not my place to say; however-Fuck Off.

    • “The rest of us can begin to figure out how to ensure Trump doesn’t stack the Supreme Court with closet fascists.”

      OK. go ahead and do so…

      FIGURE IT OUT AND THEN…”SHOW US THE MONEY”

  13. Today, a hard day. Yesterday was rage. Today, my husband and I just cried. We feel like a death in the family has happened.

    Plus, Hillary is so far ahead now in the popular vote–farther ahead than JFK was when he won.

  14. Lots of good points here, but I disagree on a few.

    Let’s not believe for one second that the Ds are moribund because the GOP just won with Trump. If the Ds are moribund, it is because fewer and fewer voters do not see themselves as Democrats (I left the Democratic Party June 2008. From that moment, I pulled my yellow dog collar and ran away. Now I’d say I vote 95% Democratic, skipping to vote or voting Republican as protest vote depending on who the candidate is)

    Foreign Policy:
    There’s no differentiation in foreign policy with the Republicans. After Obama was elected, the Ds supported the same policy of Bush. And Hillary was there supporting him. There’s no more anti-war movement except a small fringe. Americans are tired of war. Trump won many of those because of his position on Syria which is 100% correct. Lots of people follow what’s happening in that country, and those who do know it’s a policy failure, a horrid human catastrophe created by regime change. A half-ass commitment to bring down Assad with people Obama via the CIA trains in Jordan and Qatar/KSA pay the bills

    Domestic Policy:
    Although there’s a difference in the desire to help regular Americans, the Ds are now closer to the Republicans on the dispensing of any government program. Obamacare and Bush Medicare Part D is how every program is done. Americans know that companies milk taxpayers’ money with expensive programs, but inefficient.
    ——
    I don’t believe it was the campaign that sank Hillary. It was Obama and what he did to the party. Hillary needed to distance and repudiate any Obama policy she did not agree with. Voters did not want another Bush-Obama war and more war foreign policy or leave untouched the dysfunctional government.

    Life is about change. The Democratic Party will survive if the party leaders rise to the moment to change it and lead it back to the working class.

    I’m finally getting over the sadness. We’ll see what happens with all those lawsuits he has to deal with. If knocked out because of some indictment, e.g. tax evasion, before January 20, Pence may not take over. We’ve never been in such situation. Americans did not vote for Pence to be President, and Hillary may have a chance that way. We’ll see.

  15. I will address the last paragraph and come later for the rest specifically Syria(May be)
    When he continued calling the election is rigged the dem screened noooo at the top of their lungs. So now whatever happen to him or evidence surfaced of corruption in the counting of votes or maybe even a confession of a Russian operative they hacked our voting machine, Hillary has no chance. No telling if it was the game all along..

    • “No telling if it was the game all along..”
      I personally think so. His cry for: this election is “rigged”, was nothing but a signal -it was rigged on his favor. His mockery answer: unless I win…says it all…

    • As soon as he said the election was rigged, I knew it was. He was waiting for the Dems to say “Of course it isn’t” ,so any complaint of rigging would be seen as sour grapes

  16. Anyone who thinks there is no real difference between the GOP and the Dems in domestic or foreign policy would be in for a rude awakening the next four years. That is if they were capable of letting go of their preening self-righteousness long enough to notice.

    RD-I never heard a single Trump supporter talk about jobs, or free trade, or bankers.

    The historian John Lukacs has been making the argument for decades that tribalism/nationalism always (unavoidable use of the word) trumps class, that Marx had it exactly backwards as to the real engine of history.. I think Trump has just made his point.

    • My comment that there’s no differentiation between Republicans and Democrats is borne by the Democratic support of Obama’s foreign policies that are only a shade of Bush.

      I’m one who has followed Obama very closely with regards to foreign policy. How many here know that the situation in Ukraine was cooked by neocon Nuland and US ambassador at the time of Maidan? And that the rise of the Nazis in Ukraine was supported by the Obama administration? How many here know that jihadists were used in Libya to bring down Gaddafi? Once that cooked ‘revolution’ was over, the leftover arms were being sent to Syria through Benghazi with the help of Turkey, We don’t know the whole story of the Benghazi disaster. No. I don’t believe it was Hillary’s fault. It was a CIA operation that went awry. Obama and Turkey, until now have been on the same page destroying Syria. I’m not sure how involved the US was with the Turkey coup, but Turkey was getting anxious seeing Russia bomb the jihadists. The eye of the storm in that coup was Incirlik, the US/NATO base in Turkey. It’s not unthinkable that the US wanted a more agreeable head of state in Turkey and decided it was time for Erdogan to leave.

      If you think Obama had a different policy than Bush, show me. If you think the Democratic Party didn’t support Obama in all he did, show me. I will be happy to change my view. Hillary was blamed for Obama’s policies in the election because she was Secretary of State.

    • I wouldn’t argue with you. The Trump supporters I know are avid Fox fans. I hate to stereotype them because some of them are family members but I don’t think most of them have a clue what is really going on in the world. They speak an incomprehensible word salad where ideas “relate” to each other in completely improbable ways. NAFTA didn’t destroy the steel industry in Pittsburgh. The Japanese did by dumping cheap steel on the market back in the late 70s. I think that US Steel colluded with this but what do I know.
      I wouldn’t try to have a conversation with them on almost anything. Butcha know, they have to trust their lying eyes. The economy is not working for them.
      The people who I think have a better understanding of what’s going on are the Bernie supporters. Many of them have been equally devastated or have seen the devastation close up. They’re scared to death for good reason. They know what is causing income instability. But I think that Bernie would have had even less of a chance than Hillary did. As someone on twitter put it, “I like Trump but I’m going to vote for that Jewish socialist” said no one ever. He would have been toast in no time.
      And Bernie, from what I understand, isolated himself from some of the burgeoning politicians who aligned themselves with him. In other words, as right as Bernie is on so many issues, he’s a curmudgeon who alienated some of his fans. More on this later when I get confirmation.
      The indications are that Bernie wouldn’t have won the popular vote if what I’ve heard is true.
      Where was I?
      Oh yeah, there’s a lot to unpack with the Trump voter. Not all of them are racists. But racism, misogyny and anti Muslim and immigrant sentiment is a prominant feature of Trump’s movement.
      What we need to unpack is why decent people would choose him over her and for that, we need to turn to the media. After three failed Democratic candidates, we need to acknowledge their role.
      What we need to unpack is why decent people would choose him over her and for that, we need to turn to the media. After three failed Democratic candidates, we need to acknowledge their role.

      • The media spent 32? 36? minutes (can’t remember the exact number) on actual issues during all of 2016.

    • “The historian John Lukacs has been making the argument for decades that tribalism/nationalism always (unavoidable use of the word) trumps class, that Marx had it exactly backwards as to the real engine of history.. I think Trump has just made his point.”

  17. Maybe it has been posted already, but a Trump “consultant” has had several past voter fraud charges. Rather interesting, imo.

    http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/11/07/gop-trump-paying-consultant-dogged-by-voter-fraud-charges/

  18. >What we need to unpack is why decent people would choose him over her and for that, we need to turn to the media. After three failed Democratic candidates, we need to acknowledge their role.

    There we agree. After the voters themselves, (those that didn’t vote for Hillary I mean) the MSM has the most responsibility.

    Though a part of me thinks we’ve gone beyond politics at this point. I’m not at all certain this country will actually have another real election. All the checks and balances that are supposed to prevent democracy becoming dictatorship have failed so far. I don’t see why they won’t go on failing.

    Or maybe I’m just in a bad mood.

    • “What we need to unpack is why decent people would choose him over her”

      I’ve never encountered an angry person making good decisions. Trump supporters are angry people who are tired of a system that doesn’t work for for them. It’s been established that a good chunk of them are not poor. Obamacare is a perfect example of a government program that helped the poor and the middle class is supposed to pay with higher deductibles. School is expensive, and the middle class must get its education with loans, while the poorer students get grants. Housing for the middle class has skyrocketed because of easy money. These people are angry, and Trump connected with them. The result was enough ‘decent people’ voted for a swindler.

      • I met someone at work who voted for Trump. Never in a zillion years would I suspect this woman of being a trump supporter. Ever. She said she voted for change. We were both waiting for the elevator but when it came I couldn’t get on it with her. She made my skin crawl. Because she voted out of some misbegotten notion that change was going to be better than what we have now.
        I don’t know what makes someone like that tick. It’s incomprehensible to me.

        • I try to understand the ‘conservative’ Trump voter because I’m also upset about what has happened these past 16 years. The difference is that I’m not irrational. I try my best to see their side, not to agree because I doubt I will ever agree, but to at least say: “I see where you’re coming from.” I also feel that unless we understand them, we will never bridge our differences. What i will never understand and they infuriate me are those in the left, the Glen Greenwald types.. Before the election, the Intercept had nothing good to say about Hillary, now it has articles about how horrible Trump is going to be.

        • You did that at work? That doesn’t seem very professional.

          • It was the end of the day. We don’t work with each other and there was nothing aggressive about it.
            It’s not the first time I’ve avoided getting on the elevator with someone who turns my stomach.
            Wednesday was a very hard day for us.

          • Niles, doesn’t your bridge get lonely without you, when you’re not under it waiting for Billy Goats Gruff?

  19. RD, I grow weary of the troll stampede, and I doubt I am the only one. Can you please apply the banhammer?

  20. We must definitely fight this…
    I’m for the action to count ALL votes and recount WI, MI, Pennsylvania, etc.

    http://johnqbarrett.com/2016/11/13/will-we-count-all-the-votes/

  21. Charlie Chaplin speech (movie clip)

  22. In the USA, a non-elite white conservative is someone who shoots himself in the foot, then blames us non-conservatives because his foot hurts. 😛

  23. This is all nonsense. Obama got 70 million votes in 2008 and 65 million in 2012. Hillary Clinton lost to Trump despite the fact that Trump have less votes than Mitt Romney in 2012. Hilary failed to enthusiast Democrats to come vote for her. For god’s sake she even received less women and latino votes (percentage wise) than Obama.

    There is absolutely no doubt Obama would have easily beaten Trump in 2016.

    I actually now see Bernie should have have been our nominee. He would have won, most likely.

    • “I actually now see Bernie should have have been our nominee. He would have won, most likely.”

      I’ll let Joseph Cannon field that one.

      Also, once again, neither B. Clinton nor Obama were working under the handicap of a gutted Voting Rights Act. H. Clinton was.

    • Nope. Even Obama would not be able to overcome the flood of anger that was coming. This election wasn’t only about Hillary. It was about Obama too.

      • Obama would have won, easy. His favorability rating was much higher than Hillary, who most people disliked, along with Trump.

        • Sorry but this was white backlash. Obama would not have won. This was a smack in the face to Obama too you have to realize. Many of Obama’s upper income white voters voted for Trump and that should tell you what was going on.

          • Trump won despite getting less votes than Mitt Romney in 2012. Democrats simply didn’t vote this election as many either disliked Clinton or were not enthusiastic about her. Obama would have won, so would have Bernie.

          • Bernie was on tape screaming death to America while marching with the Sandinistas. No, he would not have won but apparently Hillary’s biggest mistake was not unleashing the oppo on Bernie.

          • Third terms are rare and Obama would not have won either. You need to accept the truth and give up the fantasy. Also we had the FBI interfering in an election. You tell me why the powers that be are so afraid of Hillary and worked full time to take her down? They didn’t do that to Bernie because they knew they could beat him.

          • Shorter Wupo: “2 + 2 does too equal 5, dammit!” 😛

  24. Well said, RD. In 2008, the Democratic Party told millions of people to (as Lambert and Yves like to say) “go die”.

    In 2016, they returned the compliment.

  25. I am in the count all votes and recount MI, WI, and Arizona…may be PA…
    http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-election-tie-519696?rel=most_read1

  26. Elijah Berg just posted an update on the petition you signed, Electoral College Electors: Electoral College Make Hillary Clinton President on December 19.
    4.3 million strong and counting!

    Nov 14, 2016 —

    Wow!

    Our petition calling on the Electoral College to cast ballots for Hillary Clinton surpassed FOUR MILLION signatures yesterday.
    It’s the most popular petition of all time on change.org, and the fastest growing ever. And it’s getting plenty of attention in mainstream media.

  27. Please consider helping this guy win a spot in the Senate in…December! https://medium.com/@jackson_cantrell/the-2016-election-isnt-over-yet-f1ea6fc395fe#.6njw9ackc

  28. After reading that politico story linked by bellecat- it misses what is most important- how the media continued the negative assault on Clinton and normalized what Trump was doing. The media is still doing it!

  29. Sanders would have won based on the assumption that all Hillary’s supporters will vote for him in the general. No Hillary or bust sentiment. Well I am not sure about that.

  30. When Obama was elected President, he (and the economic meltdown which came two months before the election) brought in a Senate maority of 55-45, and a House majority of about 58. Since then, during his presidency, Democrats lost 87 House sets and 10 Senate seats, plus numerous governorships nd statehouses. This was both terribly damaging, and also a sign that there was an electoral shift, particularly among White voters in midwestern states.

    Now, some could say that this was due to bias against Obama, and that was certainly not his fault. Bu he didn’t do much to help the Democratic Party image, by not campaigning for many candidates, and not going after the Republicans, the way that Reagan always went after “liberals.” And while he certainly tried to do good things, and did a few (“half a loafed” or compromised most of them), he didn’t make it clear to people how Republican ecomomic policies are so bad for them. So we lost all those seats, and people got used to voting Republican. And of course the Republican run statehouses gerrymandered districts and passed voter suppression laws. And when the Repubicans with incredible audacity actually refused to hold hearings on the the Presidenti’s Supreme Court nominee, he did nothing more than occasionally upbraid them for it. So now we’ve lost the swing seat, and the Republicans didn’t even pay an electoral price to their unconstitutional actions, because Obama was too dignified to go after them with fury, and to actually apppoint Garland, and get the country to choose sides in that argument. (Most polls showed a vast majority wanted Garland to get hearings, but Obama let it go).

    So Hillary faced a much more dangerous electorl map, where the Rust Belt White voters were angry at the Democrats for not attending to them, or showing much interest. This was unfair and stupid of them but there was also some truth to the fact that the Democrats have said very little in the last eight years to connect to White middle-class voters That was why we lost them in the Reagan years, and that is why Bill Clinton got them back, And we lost them again in the Obama administration. And there was not much that Hillary could do to suddently convince rhem that her policies were better for their job prospects, than those of some angry white man wearing a baseball cap and shouting about trade deals, the same way that the spiteful Sanders had been railing about the same thing to them for six months. Sanders cared nothing about the Democratic Party; and his tirades set the stage for Hillary losing. Then the media refused to cover Hilllary’s excellent policy speeches and positions, and let Trump distort and lie about them to his heart’s content, without saying a word. So now we have an electoral map which may be ruinous for Democrats going forward. And Sanders is hardly the person to fix this, nor is Warren, or Ellison, or any of the Left bloggers whose cognitive dissonance and spite blame Hillary for something which has been going on for eight years, under the President whom they just desperately had to elect instead of Hillary in 2008.

  31. White House Petition I just signed. Makes sense.

    Family, friends, colleagues – Because things are dire, please read this entire e-mail, consider the extreme importance of acting now, and sign this White House petition.

    Please forward to any and all social/professional networks and post on social media.

    Over the last few days, the following transpired:

    1. Donald Trump claims ownership interests in numerous and anonymous companies, many of which proudly owe millions of dollars to foreign banks, have holdings in foreign countries as well as the United States, and that depend on government leases, contracts, and relationships. Several of his companies bear his name as its brand;
    2. In the past, Presidents have placed their assets in “blind trusts” during their Presidency or divested (sold) their interests in the companies. In a true blind trust, the beneficiaries (here, Mr. Trump) would have no knowledge whatsoever about any of the companies during his Presidency and would have no ability to intervene in any business decisions of those companies during his Presidency. This makes sense, right? If otherwise, the potential conflicts of interest are in every single Presidential decision;
    3. Two days ago, very quietly, and hidden behind all the hate filled rhetoric and media, Mr. Trump announced that he will ignore decades of precedent and prior Presidents’ sound practice of placing their assets in a true blind trust [not one merely denominated as one] or an equivalent arrangement or otherwise divesting their holdings in a manner that would avoid both actual conflicts of interest and the appearance of impropriety;
    4. Instead, Mr. Trump announced on November 10, 2016 that his adult children will run and/or own and profit from his assets during his Presidency, many of which bear his name and which involve the licensing of his name;
    5. Mr. Trump has also declared the same adult children will be on his Transition team, in charge of selecting his Cabinet and staff members;
    6. These decisions have the effect of improperly and corruptly monetizing the Office of President of the United States for the benefit of Mr. Trump’s immediate family and expose that Office and President-Elect Trump to an unprecedented potential for conflicts of interest;
    7. Further, the decision to place all of his adult children on his Transition Executive Committee makes each political appointee in his administration beholden to Mr. Trump’s children for his or her job (the same adult children who will be running his businesses);
    8. Worse, Mr. Trump’s complete refusal to release any personal or business tax returns and their supporting documents leaves State Electors unable to conduct the appropriate “due diligence” on Mr. Trump that he himself would demand in his own businesses. Because of his flat refusal, we and the State Electors have no idea who he owes money to (and he brags about borrowing millions of dollars, from whom?), what foreign financial institutions have leverage or control over his businesses, or any other financial conflict of interest. We are only left to guess; and
    9. Once the Electoral College has voted (currently set for December 19) and the Presidential vote is certified and announced (currently set for January 6, 2017), there will be no formal check on President-Elect Trump’s inevitable conflicts of interest short of impeachment and a constitutional crisis.

    These potential conflicts of interest are unprecedented. We need to act now.

    Here is where we currently stand:

    Each state has state Electors responsible for casting that state’s electoral votes. On Tuesday, November 8, the country voted to provide guidance to their respective state Electors on how to cast the state’s electoral vote (i.e., Colorado has 9 electoral votes; California has 55; Texas has 38). The electoral vote is currently scheduled for December 19, 2016. The constitution does not require adherence to any popular vote, state or federal, although Electors could surely be informed by it. However, in an election like this one, where 2 million more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton nationwide (estimated that she will end up winning national popular vote by 5 million votes), the state Electors need to be informed voters now more than ever. Tellingly, no state Elector has ever been fined, prosecuted, other otherwise formally censured for failing to follow his or her party’s direction as to a vote or his or her State’s law requiring a certain vote.

    OK – SO – NOW WHAT?

    This evening, I filed a formal White House Petition asking that VP Joe Biden, as President of the Senate require that Mr. Trump provide to state Electors his federal income tax returns and supporting documents for 2006-2015 by December 12, 2016, to enable Electors, before they vote, to 1) assess his qualifications to serve as President without impeachable conflicts of interest or the appearance of impropriety given his adult children’s continuing association with his companies and Transition and his failure to release tax returns; or 2) switch their vote unless he places his assets in a true blind trust or otherwise properly divests them by December 19, 2016.

    If my petition gets 150 signatures, the petition goes public on the White House website. BUT, if I get 100,000 within 30 days, the White House has to respond. Here is my concern, the White House says it will respond within 60 days of reaching 100,000 signatures. By that time the vote will have passed and we will have missed our opportunity to determine the depth of the conflicts of interest. My hope is that if we crush the threshold (at least 1 million signatures) the White House will require transparency prior to the vote. Because it is an official White House petition, after you sign, you have to verify your signature with the e-mail you used.

    This is a link to the petition.

    We deserve to know this information before he is elected President by the electoral college.

    Please forward this e-mail and link to all of your social and professional networks and also forward to media.

    • https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/provide-electoral-college-vote-mr-trumps-tax-returns-do-due-diligence-potential-conflicts-interest

      On the White House dot gov server. Participatory democracy in action, funded by your tax dollars.

    • If you click the link, this displays: “Petition has been closed
      The petition you are trying to access has been removed from the site per our Moderation Policy, because it was in violation of our Terms of Participation.

      While you can’t sign this petition, there may be other petitions on We the People that you’d like to add your name to. Find petitions to sign now or, create your own petition.”

      Below is a petition that I can sign to prevent Soros from owning voting machines.

      • WTH? I just went back to see how the petition was doing and, yes, it was gone! Why??? WTH. Maybe put it up on change.org. ?

        • From the lawyer who presented the petition:

          Hi, I have been in Court all day and returned to find someone in the White House unilaterally pulled my petition down. I was not contacted and I have no idea why it was pulled. When I was eating dinner last night, the Petition had just over 9,000 signatures. By the time I went to bed, 12,000. When I woke up, over 20,000. We were well on our way to 100,000. I am going to try and reach the White House tomorrow to find out why it was pulled.

  32. Off-topic, but I figure RD will enjoy this.

  33. Idaho Trump electors report ‘barrage’ of harassing messages urging them to change votes

    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/nov/14/idaho-trump-electors-report-barrage-of-harassing-m/

  34. And it continues…
    Congressional Clinton probes will go forward post-election, GOP lawmakers say – Fox News
    https://apple.news/AzHqZB4oNTaOLEwUp-yFr3w
    ——————-
    If we don’t stop this sh*t now and stand up, protest the electoral college, petition and show up to your nearest protest, the witch hunt will continue. I can’t live like this for 4-8 years. To think I was dreading the Obama years…

  35. Clinton TV/Digital media framework sounds like is a really good idea!

  36. Cant wait for the Giuliani/Sessions confirmation hearings to find out about the Trump campaigns FBI/Comey and Russia collusion, of course if any!

  37. Don’t blame Bubba and Bobbie Sue; the majority of Trump’s voters do not come from the white working class of small towns and the countryside.

  38. I’m getting the impression that Trump doesn’t want to do any real Presidentin’.

  39. Cross posting from Uppity Woman:

    “Shadowfax, on November 16, 2016 at 12:27 AM said:

    This is interesting for CA voters. It seems as though these are the votes in our state that have not been counted, by county.

    There is actually today’s date on at least one county, reported today…so this site must be pretty accurate.

    There are over 4 million votes that have NOT been counted in CA alone.

    http://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/statewide-elections/2016-general/unprocessed-ballots-report.pdf

    And I wonder how many more votes have NOT been counted in the rest of the USA?

  40. adios, rd and all. time for me to move along. the best candidate of my life will never be president. i’ve really appreciated being able to come here for the past 8 years and more, but i’ve got to focus on making things within my sphere better and minimizing my time regretting what history has given me. Hillary won more votes and they will never take that away from that brilliant, graceful and classy woman. Cheerio.

    • Thank you for your support to our Hillary and visit now and then. Some of us will follow Hillary’s steps wherever she goes.

      Though, I don’t know if RD will stop expressing her thoughts, I feel she likes challenges…
      Best of luck and hugs!

    • May the Ascended Madoka bless you and keep you. :mrgreen:

  41. Huge BRAVO to Thom Palmer for his excellent, detail and courageous exposure of the “corrupted media”…

    http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion/dear-cnn-and-msnbc-you-made-donald-trump-happen-blood-is-on-your-hands/26655/

    A must read and support…make it viral…

    • I agree, bellecat, this is a great article, and should be read by everyone. And I am all for a boycott of CNN, though I’ve always figured that the ratings and profits were far secondary to their major goal, which is having a Republican agenda enacted. MSNBC has a few good people on, but they are owned by a very right-wing entity. One of the many problems we face is that there is no outlet where consistently fair and good reporting is found. I have nothing but hatred for what the msm did to Hillary, and thereby to the American people, and the planet.

  42. If you support an organization that does things you don’t approve of, what do you do? What does Trump need to build the wall, export the Mexicans, kick out the Muslims, go back to the 50s etc.? Money. On January 1 if everyone who doesn’t support his agenda maxes out their deductions to 10 and doesn’t pay their taxes till the end of the year Trump won’t have the money to do all those things. It’s perfectly legal. Are they going to put the majority of Americans in jail? He doesn’t pay taxes, why should we?

  43. I am an absurdly pro clinton. Normally I never saw any fault on what she and husband did. But in this election saying that it was everybody else’s fault and her campaign was at no fault is just nonsense. It was well known knowledge the media hates her. They actually tanked her first run. She decided to run again without creating a buffer between her and the public from the vile barrage hurled at her. In this day and age it could be done. A lot of people even during the election wondered why the issues where the center of the attacks centered left without aggressive plan of defense. Even someone mentioned that in the trust issues part of it in some mind if she can’t defend herself probably how do I trust she is going to do that for me. When I say the campaign I am not talking about the foot soldiers or the middle tier people. I am talking about the strategists who pocketed millions and probably will live to enjoy the money without any guilt or remorse.

  44. The electoral college petition on change dot org is the biggest petition in the history of the website. The petition creator will be on NPR today. Let me know if any of you have the chance to see it https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

  45. Today, it appears Trump is settling his Trump University lawsuit. And appointing Sessions as Attorney General. I feel nauseated.

  46. Remember when beautiful, talented, and one of the most respected women in entertainment Vanessa Williams was dethroned for pending publication of unauthorized nude photos? Couldn’t have a woman with such low moral values being a role model for young women, now could we? Flashforward 30 years and America is going to have a First Lady who has actually authorized publication of her nude photos. You’ve come a long way baby… just the kind of role model young women need. Sorry if anyone finds this offensive. I find it ironic and sad. We could have done so much better.

  47. Hillary’s speech at the Children Defense Fund

    9:00 Marian Wright Edelman
    17:00 Hillary, The People’s President

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?418604-1/hillary-clinton-addresses-childrens-defense-fund

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