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    • Trump/Clinton Debate Open Thread
      I used to get paid to watch these things. I don’t any more.  So… I’m going to go read a nice novel in a coffee shop.  Please feel free to talk about the debate in comments.  I will, actually, be curious to hear what people have to say, just not willing to sit thru so […]
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Filibuster on guns. Have you had #Enough?

From Lady V in the comments:

9 pm Weds: Live stream of gun control filibuster happening now in the Senate:http://livestream.com/accounts/300260/events/4963928

“Senate Democrats led by Chris Murphy of Connecticut ground the Senate floor to a halt Wednesday, vowing to speak as long as necessary to force the Senate to take action to address gun violence.
‘I am prepared to stand on the Senate floor and talk about the need to prevent gun violence for as long as I can. I’ve had #Enough,’ he tweeted. For hours, Murphy and other Democratic senators took turns demanding the Senate take up a variety of gun control measures, though it is not clear any of them would have the votes to pass.
Murphy listed off mass shootings and talked about expanding background checks for gun buyers and banning gun sales to people on terror watch lists.’ (USA Today)

Since Orlando shooting, 100 people have been murdered with guns.

This is going to be a tough nut. Fox News and other right wing media has promoted an atmosphere of Learned Helplessness where gun control is concerned.

30 Responses

  1. Wow, Just wow. I’ve been tuning in to the filibuster off and on all day. At no time are our senators reading Dr Seuss or endless passages from historical documents. They are actually discussing guns and gun violence and gun control.

    • Yeah, it’s really stunning. Sen. Murphy (CT) sounds so exhausted, but he is not resorting to reading the dictionary–it’s a substantive commentary, and the other Senators supporting him — well, after such contentiousness in the primary, it is nice to see everyone coming together. At least the Dems. And that one Repub.

  2. “Fox News and other right wing media has promoted an atmosphere of Learned Helplessness where gun control is concerned.”

    Strongly agreed! IIRC guns cause ~12K non-suicide deaths/yr (murders, accidents, etc) in Murica, which is “Murican Exceptional” -ly horrible outlier, relative to civilized nations like Canada. Moderate “common sense” gun control measures, such as ending the gun show loophole, & banning the most deadly semi-automatic gun, would reduce this rate. The lunatic who killed 50 people in Orlando, perhaps would have only been able to kill 5 people if he only had access to less powerful gun.

    Unfortunately, Learned Helplessness, anti-empiricism, anti-scientific mentality extends to other issues in Exeptional (-ly Barbaric) Murica. Harvard Public Health Profs estimate that the US pols & Sickcare Mafia industries killing/blocking of CAN-style MedicareForAll kills ~45K Americans/yr. The ACA by 2022 may bring this down to “only” ~30K USians/yr. This is a worse problem than even the gun violence problem in terms of death toll.

    Yet Learned Helpless at best, or Corruptly owned by Sickcare Mafia funders like Pharma & Health Insurance at worst, H Clinton, claimed “America will NEVER have MedicareForAll” during this 2016 campaign. IMHO this is as bad as the Rs blocking the moderate gun control policy.

    Perhaps H Clinton voters may consider pressuring H Clinton to “evolve” into supporting MedicareForAll. This would be a “win-win” for actual USians, & for H Clinton. H Clinton would gain a big portion of Bernie voters, undecided voters, & even Trump voters (*southern accent* “I do like Trump’s bigotry” but dammit these cancer bills are bankrupting me – so I vote Hillary”) if she adopted MedicareForAll – it would raise her election win probability to 90%+. ANY pol that implements MedicareForAll, will probably be considered EASILY the best President since LB Johnson if not better, definitely better than the narcissist 0bama & the rightwing hero moron Reagan. Consider that the CAN politician who implemented MedicareForAll won a poll for the Greatest Canadian of All Time, even beating hockey GOAT Wayne Gretsky. It might take 4+ years, the Congress would need to change, but a President that highlighted continuously (instead of highlighted War on T3rra or Grand Ripoff “Bargain” or TPP continuously) it could get it done – 58% USians ALREADY support MedicareForAll.

    • PND might have some good points, but I don’t feel like trying to decipher his/her baroque dialect of English–it is English s/he’s trying to use, isn’t it?–in order to consider them.

      ENGLISH, BROTHER TUCKER! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!

      • I think the language problem might be related to speaking from a plane of higher moral superiority, i.e. like a sophomore in college at an Ivy League school. Lecturing Clinton on health care reform is especially amusing. I do agree with the points, I think.

        • Perhaps, but R U Reddy uses a similarly baroque dialect of maybe-English, and he is not a college sophomore.

          • IBW & Churl, no policy substance in addressing my coment, just a petty ad hominem attack.

            If you (correctly) assume it is Learned Helplessness to not fight for moderate gun control reform to reduce the ~12K annual, non-suicide gun deaths, logically you must also it assume it is Learned Helplessness to abide by the GREATER ~30-45K annual deaths due to the politicians & health industries continual blocking of MedicareForAll.

            Apparently Churl practices the Argument from authority fallacy, apparently noting nobody can criticize a word H Clinton says on health policy. Churl, do you actually doubt that the specialist Harvard Public Health Profs are not more knowledgeable on health systems & Public Health than the generalist politician H Clinton? The empirical existence of a Canada-style MedicareForAll system being in operation for decades in many OECD rich nations (or for IBW, who is apparently bewildered at commonly known abbreviations: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) for decades providing better or at least equivalent health outcomes (life expectancy, infant mortality, etc) at much lower cost, I guess all of that means less than H Clinton’s word that “we will never have MedicareForAll in America”.

            I also cannot understand the hypocrisy of H Clinton voters correctly joining those of us who were enraged at 0bama for betraying his 2008 voters by killing the Public Option in 2010 that he promised in the 2008 campaign, but then being silent when H Clinton is equivalently anti-Americans’ health in 2016 with her statement “we will never have MedicareForAll in America”.

          • Alas for PND, and indeed for the rest of us, too many of my fellow Paleface-Americans still don’t want a Scandinavian, or even Canadian, level of safety-net programs for the common citizen because some non-Palefaces would benefit from them.

            Too many of my fellow Palefaces are too wretchedly mean and stupid to know what is good for them.

            I assume HRC was merely acknowledging that grim fact.

            I think Hillary, and before her Bill, have been doing the best they think they can do with the real situation in the real USA.

            I actually want the same thing PND does–by Madoka, I want a Scandinavian-style welfare state–but I realize only time and demographic change will make that possible, and probably not in my lifetime (I have completed 53 solar orbits).

            Those stupid Palefaces I mentioned above tend disproportionately to hate the Clintons, so I will enjoy shoving four, or better eight, years of Prez Hillary down their fornicating throats.😈

          • The Canadian model is not a national plan. It is run province by province. An equivalent here would be some kind of state by state run program which judging by how the Medicaid expansion went down would not happen here anytime in the near future. I gave up on single payer and moved on when it failed in the most politically viable state in the union for it-Vermont. If Bernie’s plan can’t be passed in his own home state of Vermont it’s just not politically viable right now. Sure keep fighting for it but know your odds are very long and you’re unlikely to see the fruits of your labor. I think most of us have just moved on with regards to healthcare. The time to pass something was 2008 when the time was ripe. It seems to me if Bernie cared so much about that issue why didn’t he run for president in 2008?

          • “Commonly-known abbreviations”

            Commonly known among the small community of the politically obsessed, perhaps. 😈

  3. A really admirable and courageous effort by Murphy and the rest of the Democrats. I assume that all we’ll get is that Cornyn bill which has the usual loopholes; and then the Republicans will tell us how much they care. What we need, of course. is reinstatement of the assault weapons ban. That could only possibly come if the Democrats took over at least one house of Congress. The Republican goal here is. as always, to pass as minimal a bill as possible, just to protect themeselves from public outrage.

    • I agree, William, absolutely.
      If the Republicans couldn’t muster any courage after the Slaughter of the Innocents in Newtown, they never will.

    • Yeah, but it was really cool to hear the Dems (and 2 Repubs) speak about it with so much passion for so many hours. Both he and Cory Booker made a new name for themselves last night.

  4. Re the health care comments above. I can give one example from a consumer perspective. Both Canada and Great Britain function on a province or regional basis (as Ga6thDem noted re Canada). In both countries, a type 1 diabetes person getting an insulin pump depends on where they live. If in an area where the insurance supports it- yes. In not- no. It also depends on whether your physician supports (“believes in”) pumps, especially in Great Britain.

    In Denmark, I quote one person’s report:
    “Only a few pump brands are available and often the doctor chooses which one you get or choice is limited to two brands. Compared to the U.S., the percentage of people with diabetes using pumps is limited. It has been politically decided that children have easier access to getting a pump. In Denmark, it is not possible to buy a pump out-of-pocket.”

    In the U.S., both Type 1 and certain Type 2 diabetics may obtain pumps but the insurance coverage is spotty. If you have $6,500 for a pump and $80-100/month for supplies you can buy your own, and many do. Medicare covers pumps for T1, but not the continuous glucose monitor (sensor inserted for round the clock BG readings). When I reached Medicare age, I had to “prove” that I was a T1 even though I had been taking insulin since diagnosis as a T1 in 1982. I can choose my own brand preference in the U.S.
    We need insurance coverage in the U.S. for all T1 diabetics and many T2s. That is a major current flaw in our system. I could expand on the cgm issue, equally important, but this is already too long.

    My point is that a 55% tax rate and universal health care still does not get you all the health care coverage that is needed, especially in the chronic disease area. I speak as a former health care professional and a consumer when I say that both the insulin pump and the cgm are essential to prevent costly complications and allow a semblance of normal life. Trust me, the complications cost more than the pump and cgm supplies. Think vision impairment, kidney failure/dialysis, cardiovascular events, neuropathy, etc, etc., etc.

  5. I don’t see a way to edit so let me clarify two points where I goofed in my post. In first paragraph, I meant if your province insurance does not cover pumps, you don’t get one. Further down, this is what it should have said:
    We need insurance coverage in the U.S. for all T1 diabetics and many T2s for insulin pumps and cgms. That is a major current flaw in our system. (Diabetes care is covered, just not the technology to make good management possible.)

  6. OK, so congress fears that Ted Nugent will do a concert in their district if they don’t go down on Wayne LaPierre.
    Here’s some things that can be done.
    Landlords can write a no firearms clause in their leases.
    Home Owner’s/Renter’s insurance writers can charge higher premiums for gun owners and deny coverage if unattended firearms are not secured in a safe.
    Automotive insurance companies can do the same write policies that state firearms are to be transported unloaded in a locked carrier or deny payment of loss claims.
    Not so sure if Health Insurance can do something similar under Obama-care but higher premiums for gun owners to cover their eventual shooting accidents would be good.

  7. Sort of off topic, but maybe not really: http://www.politicususa.com/2016/06/18/chart-exposes-media-bashes-hillary-clinton-promoting-donald-trump.html This is really outrageous. It’s amazing she’s doing as well as she is. Totally amazing, given this.

    • I saw this and was going to post the same link. The reason Hillary does so well is that many people have first-hand knowledge of her and Bill. Also, her voters in general appear to be gifted in critical thinking abilities. Not so attracted to free lunches. There’s a New York Observer article about how Hillary/DNC rigged the primaries. An obvious lie and the owner of this rag is Donald Trump’s son-in-law. Breitbart picked it up. Google search for Hillary has major dated hit pieces still listed.

      • Yes, i witnessed Shrub being sold as if he were a competent contender. Also, “news” “reporters/readers” were quoted as saying they felt it would be more fun if Obama were the nominee over Hillary. They enjoy covering him more.

        Gore was instrumental in working legislatively to support DARPA, which was the underpinning of the Internet. It was Chris “Tweety” Matthews who started the faux claim that Gore said he “invented the internet” and pulled this up whenever he could. Matthews said he really fell for Nixon, but got a tingle up his leg for Kennedy–and a thrill up his leg when he heard Obama give a campaign speech.

        The New York Times also “distinguished” itself (NOT) with the faux Whitewater non-scandal. Then there was Judith Millers outrageous lying reporting that beat the drums for the Iraq War, and that awful Marlene Dowd. Why does the Times let such an obviously disturbed woman attack the Clinton’s constantly? Such tripe brings down the Grey Lady into the tabloid cesspool.

    • Read Bob Somerby at http://howhegotthere.blogspot.com/ to see how the print and broadcast news media gave us Bush the Lesser and 911.

    • I repeat myself, but Hillary and the Democrats need to make a priority of restoring the Fairness Doctrine and breaking up the media conglomerates. (6 giant conglomerates own 90% of the media.)

  8. Here’s hoping for the vote tomorrow…

  9. Well, they didn’t even pass the Cornyn bill which the NRA supported, as weak as it was. I guess I haven’t been following closely enough; we now need 60 votes to pass anything, not 51. Thus the Senate has ceased to function as a responsible democratic institution. With the forever Red states, how do you get to even 60 Democratic Senators? We probably really need 63 or so. The Republicans wouldn’t even vote for the most minimal of gun control laws today. A thoroughly repulsive and tragic display.

  10. The Senate is still run by the same Republicans who are protecting the NRA as always. And there are still plenty of outspoken tea partiers and their cousins in the religious right to support them.

    Now, however, I am concerned about the far left and how that group will behave in the November election. It will impact gun legislation among a hundred other critical national interests. I have friends in that group who say they will “make a statement” by voting for the Green Party. If a significant portion of BS supporters do that, it could impact the outcome.

    Plus: The media keeps saying that Trump is not running a presidential campaign, implying he can’t compete with Hillary. And yet, the polls show HRC as tied or barely ahead of Trump in various states. To win it seems to me that she needs a big majority of Democrats and yes, even the “under 40s” and some of the Indies.
    And maybe this is wrong, but I don’t really think it is a good idea to keep smashing Trump so convincingly before their convention, just in case the anti-Trumps bring in another candidate. I like to think T would be easier to beat (if people vote) than a Trump alternate. Even though I thought every Republican candidate was pitifully weak. Am I crazy to want Trump over another R candidate?!

    • Those are all legitimate concerns. I am also torn between wanting Trump to get the nomination and not be replaced by a candidate who is just as bad on issues, but who has that typical veneer of the “caring Republican,” and the knowledge that Trump is beyond horrific as a potential President. Since I believe that global warming is the all-important overriding issue, I figure that any Republican winning would mean disaster; so we mightt as well get our best chance to win.

      It is a very sad testament to the unperceptiveness of the voting populace, that with all the things Trump has said, and with his obvious complete lack of understanding of issues and their implications, he still gets at least 40% of the vote in the polls. It may well be that the country is lost, because the dumbed own and media controlled people mostly vote on “character perceptions,” as if they are watching a series of “Survivor,” and deciding who the more “likeable” person is. On issues, Hillary should win 80-20, but the media has not discussed a real issue yet in this campaign.

      As to your acquaintances who want to vote for a third party, you could remind them of all the supercilious Jacobns who voted for Nader in 2000, which unquestionably got Bush elected; and meant the Iraq War, the collapse of the economy, and Roberts and Alito on the Supreme Court. If they still think it is a wonderful ego-enhancing thing to help Trump win, they are beyond hope; the useful idiots who help create a fascist state.

  11. Slightly off topic:

    Separated at birth? 😈

  12. William, I think those who are refusing to vote for hrc see themselves as highly principled people. Of course, being from the south, I call it ‘cutting off your nose to spite your face’ but… one person told me that she has a huge problem with Hillary taking “big money” from Wall Street. I do not know how much money hrc has taken from “Wall St” but it is, for me, a negative but not a deal breaker when I consider the alternative. Many on the far left remind me of the single issue voters on the far right. Such as my relative who has voted against his own interests (being low income) all his adult life because he is anti-abortion. Those who are very focused on a principle(s) are not open to re-education, in my experience. Nader? “That was different,” they say. One local radio guy who was for Bernie now admits that there is no perfect candidate. The question is, which one is best, on the whole, for our country. Oh, the perfectionism that we seek in others, but not in ourselves!

  13. The passion of each of the Dems speaking on the floor of the House during the sit-in right now (demanding gun legislation be passed) are making me believe democracy might be possible again. Call 202 224 3121 and let your voice be heard!

    CSPAN has choppy video of it being uploaded from Facebook and Periscope because the Repub Speaker of the House turned OFF the camera. What country are we living in???

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