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      Some time back I read a book called The Foundations of Early Modern Europe, 1460-1559. One thread I picked out as particularly clear was their explanation of the effects of gunpowder. The first bit is what as known as pike and shot. Early gunpowder weapons were slow and inaccurate. But late medieval pike units had already changed warfare: not only could they […]
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FWIW JMHO: Hillary vs Bernie

pie-fight-primaryDisclaimer: In the following, I’m not referring to all Bernie people. There are plenty of Bernie people who are pretty good people who just want to make sure their issues are addressed.

So, the NYTimes says that Bernie is going to try to damage Hillary all the way to California and beyond. Encouraging his supporters to vote for him because <list of reasons why Bernie would be better, include significant accomplishments> is just not enough. California is a big prize and it would indeed be a plum to take it away from Hillary.

But Bernie should be aware that you *can* win California (NY, NJ, PA, OH, FL, MI, TX, MA etc), win the popular vote and still lose the nomination. Go ask Hillary.

Bernie wants another debate before the California primary. If I were Clinton, I’d give it to him. What I think some voters want to see is an anti-Dukakis moment from Hillary. I think she can do this.

Finally, the left has to step up and make the Bernie Bros behave. Yes, it’s time to cut the sexist shit out and step up and do the right thing guys. These assholes are out of control. They think that they can use intimidation and breath holding and harrassment and everyone is going to give into them because they infiltrated caucuses and flipped some delegates in an backdoor strategy and generally made a nuisance of themselves.

This is unrealistic.

It’s unrealistic because as I pointed out before, you can still win California by 10 points and lose the nomination. If the media is on your side, you can be carried to the nomination in a sedan chair. And although the media is having a field day watching this pie fight, I see no indication that they are backing Bernie the way they slavishly fellated Obama in 2008.

No, the media is saving its worst work for the general between Hillary and Trump.

Secondly, Bernie Bros need to realize that there are other people who exist who prefer their own candidate and it is not Bernie. Even if the party does decide to ditch Hillary- again- that doesn’t mean that her voters are going to pivot and support Bernie in the fall if he gets the nomination via a coup. They were asked to do that for a man they didn’t believe in for the 2008 campaign and they’re not going to do it again. These guys need to understand this. There will be a fury they won’t see coming. We do have feelings and anger is one of the ones they don’t want stir. Don’t even. I’m serious.

I’m calling on all left blogosphere guys to tell these assholes to stop. Stop the dehumunization of Hillary Clinton.

Stop the double standard.

Stop the stupid hand wringing about whether a senator who has been elected twice, can run a campaign.

Stop believing the crap about the 2008 campaign that doesn’t acknowledge the piling on, the media collaboration, the flood of Wall Street money to Obama and the party back stabbing.

Stop abetting the overt sexism.

Stop sitting on the sidelines without commenting on the truly bad behavior and ridiculous intimidation.

Stop pretending that this is the same crap any male candidate opposing Sanders would get.

It’s on YOU to rein in these assholes. Some of you were these assholes in 2008 and how did that go for you? Did Obama give you everything you wanted? Is it possible that you weren’t entirely accurate?

If you don’t rein them in and crack down, you bear some of the responsibility for what comes next.

Step up and act like decent human beings.

162 Responses

  1. Have you been keeping up with Joe Cannon’s posts on Cannonfire?

    He suspects Sanders is being blackmailed, and now can’t stop his campaign even if he wants to.

    (For new readers, Cannonfire is linked here in the right-hand column under “Links”.)

    • hey,

      You all seem like a reasonable bunch, but that cannonfire site reads like infowars.com. That guy seems like he might be… angry? No, not so much angry… more like… hmmm… more like BAT$HIT CRAZY!

      And also, I miss-typed riverdaughtor.wordpress.com, and that’s actually a site. Who owns it?

  2. Wow! I could’nt have said it better. After 2008 I did’nt think we would have to go through this again.

  3. Brava.

  4. This could get ugly. Is this being timed for maximum effect?

    “Thomas Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, who took part in Mr. Lukens’s deposition, said afterward that he could not discuss the substance of the testimony because of the ground rules set by Judge Sullivan.
    But Mr. Fitton predicted that once the testimony is publicly released — perhaps as early as next week — it would show ‘why the State Department and Mrs. Clinton have slow-rolled this and withheld a complete explanation of what went on with her email system. What we learned is going to be embarrassing to Mrs. Clinton and the administration — maybe more than embarrassing.’
    He refused to elaborate, citing the court’s restrictions.”

    • Hey, nobody cares.
      It’s just another stupid investigation that will go nowhere because there’s nothing to see. I’m not surprised that this is being slow walked and will probably be “under investigation” even after the election. When there’s an indictment, I’ll believe it. Until then, it’s just being floated out there to create a cloud of suspicion and wrongdoing.
      BTW, you can spread your misinformation and distrust anywhere you like. The blogosphere is really big, YUGE even. Create your own “Pseudoscandals to Plague Hillary With!” blog and write silly posts about it to your heart’s content.
      But you’re not going to do it here.
      You won’t get a second warning.

    • Would the concern troll like a side order of Fraudulent Fries with “her” Big Fat Nothingburger? 😆

  5. relevant article in the guardian

    ‘If the Democratic elite assumes that all liberal voters are outraged by sexism, they’ll be making the same devastating miscalculation the GOP elite did when they assumed Republican voters were tied to the same conservative ideals they cared about.”


    • We already know that it’s not true. There’s a VERY strong persistent streak of sexist assholes on the left and as they say, the fish rots from the head down.

      • you are right, but the guardian is a bastion of the left and this is one of the first articles in the guardian accepting the fact that the left can be as sexist as the right

      • Yeah, I used to consider myself a leftist, but the Hillary-bashing, the more general dismissal of white and male supremacism as being no longer relevant issues, and the increasing comfort with violence (as long as it’s “revolutionary”) which is going on at sites I once respected, such as Counterpunch, Salon, and *cough* the blog of a certain “Cymric” exile in the Great White North, is sending me back toward the center.

  6. True, and another good reason Hillary is running on the Issues:


    Instead of vote for me because the other guy can’t even spell Issue, uses my tax dollars to bailout his failed business ventures and because he is a creepy, misogynist, raciest, clown.

  7. You may want to censor this right off the bat because it does not compute with statist indoctrination.

    Every 4 years, like clockwork, you people pick a side and go berserk with the Five Minutes Hate, 24/7. The state sets you at each other’s throats.

    They must really love how it makes you forget entirely about your human rights. Frinstance, all you soi-disant gender-equity warriors: Which candidate will accede to and execute the CEDAW? All you soi-disant progressives: which candidate will accede to and execute the ICESCR? All you soi-disant social justice campaigners: which candidate will implement the review recommendations of the CERD, CAT, and ICCPR treaty bodies? All you soi-disant antiwar activists: Which candidate will accede to the Rome Statute and adopt the definition of aggression?

    None of them. Whichever side you pick, you’ll get jack shit.

    Look at every puny reform of substance, you will see that it results from international pressure of treaty bodies and charter bodies and coordinated civil society. The Democrats installed by your fake democracy have fuck-all to do with it.

    • Excuse me but virtually no one on this blog was stupid enough to vote for Obama. We saw that coming from a mile away.
      If YOU did, then you locked us and our candidate into some of the most half assed policies our country has ever seen, policies that she’s going to have to fix.
      Would she have done better? Absolutely. But we won’t have that luxury going forward because crazy assed smoke in their eyes lefties decided to put all their energy and obnoxious energy behind a moderate Republican corporate schmoozed ladder climber from Chicago instead of a politician.
      I was there in Zucotti Park. I supported the FiliBernie but I am sick of your type thinking you can just ignore my vote for the candidate I respect and admire.
      You lost my attention. Now go away.

    • Fascinating, how fixated you are on the forced choice between the state’s synthetic factions. You really cannot think in any other terms. You’re a whirling, twirling Tasmanian devil of state-channeled fury, and it’s going to shorten your life. No one gives a shit who you root for, certainly not me, least of all the state that set this beauty pageant up.

      You don’t even know what your rights are, Do you?


      You never heard of any of this. That’s why you’re going to get fucked again, whoever wins.

      • Again, you have lost your collective minds. The die was cast in 2008. We are stuck with whatever you and your merry band of malicious assholes demanded.
        Bernie is the last person in the world who can change it.
        Get your down ticket people elected or STFU.

        • You see that’s the problem with a lot of them. Even after Obama failed to deliver their pony they still believe in ponies. You think that they would have learned.

    • You’re struggling to assign a partisan category to the disembodied voice that is troubling you. You can’t. State dogma cannot express the point I’m making. Don’t want to make your head pop like a zit with cognitive dissonance, but there is more to civil society than electoral politics. Until you are conversant with the minimal standards of the civilized world, you will not understand that, you’ll keep on thinking the Dems are your party, like some broke low-normal redneck thinks Dook is his football team. There exists an outside world. They’re on your side. I hope you find them after the state concludes its mass dogfights.

      • Ok, you and your droogs are out of here.
        Work it out somewhere else.

      • How many divisions does your “civilized world” have?

        That’s what the global capitalists would ask you, were they in a sufficiently frank mood.

      • Good question! But the relevant unit is now brigades; Russia’s 40 or so are evidently enough to stuff UN Charter Article 47 down the throat of the US apparat and its figurehead Barack Obama, in Syria, twice, averting two planned armed attacks and curbing covert aggression by armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries.

        Your question is common, since it’s part and parcel of the US official line adhered to by both parties. It’s conditioned reflex. If rule of law were futile, as you suggest, the US government would not have fought a rear-guard action against the simple word impunity with 700 obstructive amendments. If rule of law were futile, the US government would not have cut and run from war with Libya in 1992 to avoid I.C.J. Rep. at 3 and 114, 31 Int’l L. Mats. 662 (1992). The state’s afraid of world-standard rule of law. That’s why you’re not allowed to learn of it.

        Now, back to your Two Minutes Hate! Your fearless leader has to fight her designated enemy. She doesn’t want the forest, just the trees.

        • Indeed, good for Mother Russia; she’s definitely a lesser evil against ISIS.

          The fact that a national government, or at least the USA’s nat’l govt., CAN successfully fight and/or run away from your “rule of law” does rather suggest the futility of that “rule”, at least when the flouting government is backed up by Global Capital.

          If international law only works when Global Capital refrains from opposing it, which one is sovereign?

          Capital is Sauron; Uncle Sam is merely the Lord of the Nazgul–though two of the other Nazgul (The Kingdom of Head-choppers and The Neocons’ Actual Country) do seem to exercise undue influence over their Lord, hence that Witch-King’s reluctance to stand back shrewdly, and let Putin do the job of squelching ISIS.

          As for powerful men and nations unaffiliated with Global Capital, such as Putin and his Motherland? They are so many Sarumans (Sarumen?), who are more successful than the literary Saruman at maintaining their independence of evil from the most powerful evil force. The less powerful ones (such as the “Caliph” and his ISIS) are more like Shagrat and Gorbag, who dreamed of setting up a little operation of their own before they fell out with each other.

      • But they didn’t fight in ’92. They were afraid of setting a precedent in the ICJ.

        The allegorical arcana goes over this commenter’s head, but the point you make sounds serious. As Richard Seymour et al. might put it, the law reproduces the class system. Always? Necessarily? What’s happened lately is CELAC governing to the ICESCR, and CIA fighting to roll that back, even as the countries of the overwhelming majority of the world urge the US to ratify the ICESCR. Can the US destroy the ICESCR, a requisite of responsible sovereignty in customary international law, as it weakens and loses legitimacy? Dunno.

        Candidate Clinton has a dog in this fight, as public face of US coercive foreign interference in Honduras, Venezuela, and Brazil. (In Libya too – Gaddafy’s dead mostly cause he’s bolshy.) She’s stamping out the ICESCR.

        Sanders acts oblivious to the legal questions, adhering to the tenet of US state religion that there’s no crime, only policy: torture is policy, extrajudicial killing is policy, aggression is policy. He’s useless, a pale shadow of Kucinich.

        Trump is a buffoon being mobbed by CIA handlers in case he wins. He will play ball.

        So this election has no bearing on my rights. About the outcome, I have no shits to give. The main event is international suasion amplified domestically by NGO input to charter bodies, treaty bodies, and special procedures, with Russia as enforcer of last resort.

        • I recognize the language as English, yet none of this makes sense to me. I could look up the acronyms, but that would be work, which is the foulest of all four-letter words. 😛

          I’ll believe in the power of “international suasion” to put a leash on Global Capital when I actually see it happen.

  8. “the left has to step up and make the Bernie Bros behaveI”

    I think Hillary should loudly condemn them, being specific, and dare to say that she wants no part of these sexist, violent, hateful people. Declare they ought to go support Trump if that’s their view of freedom of speech and democracy. Never mind saying, but look Hillary gave in to Barack for party unity in 2008. Make it clear that anyone who supports violent hatemongers has no place in the Democratic party! She should out the Democratic party for failing to show the extent of harrassment and bad behavior by the Bernie supporters. “Don’t vote for me if this is the within-party terrorism you support, because I won’t allow it.” In short: if Hillary would stop kowtowing and say what she really thinks, she’d shock people, and would get more respect and support.

  9. There is a very real danger that we will lose this election. If Trump is elected, the country and the planet will become uninhabitable in a variety of ways. This is not Carter vs. Ford; oh, well, who cares who wins?. It is not Carter vs. Reagan, or even Bush vs. Gore. It is the most competent and gifted candidate in perhaps a century, against a would-be fascist dictator who is also abysmally stupid.

    And if we lose, Bernie Sanders is going to be one of the major reasons. And of course it won’t matter at such a point who is blamed or who is responsible. Of course they’ll all blame Hillary for it, and that won’t even matter any more. Sanders has inevitably moved from being an irritating, self-righteous nuisance, to an angry and vengeful person who wants to take Hillary and the Democratic Party down with him. As his chances of winning the nomnation have moved from zero to less than zero, he ramps up his fury and scorn at Hillary, and at the Democrats. He has become the Republicans’ best ally.

    Yesterday’s Fox poll has Trump winning. One can somewhat dismiss a Fox poll, but there was another recent poll which had Hillary up by only 2 points. And one can say that such polls have limited import now, but the “favorables” do have some importance. According to the Fox respondents, 66% percent of the voters think that Hillary is corrupt. That is an astounding and a horrifyingly unfair evaluation of her, who never had one breath of scandal when she was Senator for eight years in New York, where they investigate everything about you. So how does she get such horrible negatives? Oh, sure, the right-wing slander machine is part of it. But a large part is Sanders, who promised to run a campaign on the issues, and devolved it into nonstop disparaging of Hillary as someone who has been completely bought and sold by Wall Street and big money interests. This is a completely untrue narrative, and Sanders does not care. When challenged at the NY debate to list one instance of Hillary changing a position because of Wall Street influence, he could not. HIllary and Sanders voted the same on 93% of all bills in the eight years they shared a Senate position. And still, Sanders revels in painting her as a totally corrupt servant of big money interests. He has made the case easy for Trump, who bootstrapped on to Sanders’ slanders, to call her “Crooked Hillary.” I seriously doubt that he would have picked that descriptive, had it not been for Sanders daily hate-filled diatribes against Hillary, and the party which Sanders also despises.

    And maybe Sanders is indeed being blackmailed by Republicans, who undoubtedly have funneled large sums into his campaign, leading to a major FEC investigation of him, and probably serious campaign debt. Or maybe Sanders is simply the person I always saw on TV political shows for the past decade: the person who will never concede a point, never stop being contentious; never praise anyone or anything but his own zealous sense of puritannical rightness. He is a major danger right now. I hope that Hillary will not debate him again; it will not benefit her one iota. I know that he is going to go to the convention and attack Hillary from there. He has already claimed multiple times that the primaries are fixed, the process is rigged; the Democratic Party is corrupt and unethical. The party made a big mistake in allowing him to run as a Democrat for the primaries. He would just as soon have the Democratic Party be swept away, to be replaced by some radical group which would never win an election, but would feel holy zeal about it. Sanders wants to “win” in some fashion; he wants to be adulated. He cannot get that by doing what Hillary did in 2008,and helping her.He’s gone way too far to walk any of his rhetoric back now. I don’t think he even knows what his endgame will be; he doesn’t have one; he wants to keep going on forever, the angry revolutionary exhorting his followers to tear the whole thing down.

    • Yeah, I’m not following the whole blackmail thing. I prefer to K.I.S.S.
      I think his supporters are participating in a group madness where they are losing perspective and also completely neglecting the fact that Clinton supporters aren’t going to tolerate being pushed aside again.

      • We don’t exist to them, except as receptacles of massive paranoid projection, in the online echo chamber. But all projections dissolve. Eventually, reality intercedes. Reality is real. 🙂

  10. What is going on here? When I start typing riverdaughter in my google page, the autocomplete gives me a list. Sometimes when I click on the one for this blog, it takes me to a site that looks just like this one

    • A Trollatubby set up a fake Confluence site to look like the real one.

      I’m assuming that you’re not the Trollatubby, but since you posted this twice, I suspect that you may be.

      • She (he?) won’t be back. Or at least not using the same credentials.

      • just so you know I am the Sandy that posted near the top of the page but I am not the Sandy that posted the last two comments about being sent to a site that looks like this one. I don’t want to be invited to leave because of someone else’s bad behavior. thanks

  11. Oh, and we have a real Sandy and a fake Sandy now.

    Real Sandy has a green monster; Fake Sandy has a violet monster.

    • Good catch! Green monster sandy, good. Purple monster sandy, baaaad. Bad, bad Sandy. No biscuit for her.

  12. Overheard today, two late 30s women in conversation. Don’t want to even vote because they see everything as corrupt and feel nothing can be done except revolution.

    • Those people are nihilists much like Susan Sarandon. They really must be people who are comfortable enough that they think nothing will touch them and they’ll be “safe” from the “revolutionaries” who come and mass murder people.

  13. >Step up and act like decent human beings.

    I don’t think it is going to happen. Because the problem isn’t some minority of Bernie supporters. The problem is Bernie. He has bought into the idea he was somehow cheated of the nomination, he is consumed by self-righteous bitterness, and he really doesn’t care at this point if his actions help Trump. And so the Leftists who still support him (the rational ones have already moved on) are going to keep taking their cues from him.

    And if Trump does win in November, which remains unlikely but not impossible, Sanders will be the Nader of 2016.

    • Am I dreaming here? Is Bernie experiencing the same primary shenanigans as Clinton did in 2008? I’ve been looking up the stats for the 2008 primary vs 2016 and Bernie has been handled with extraordinary tenderness inversely proportional to his wins from what I can tell.
      At this point, I think we might have to take the gloves off. They’ve stepped it up, we have to step it up.

      • Agree

      • I have determined that Bernie has a problem with being beaten by a girl. Do you think he would be behaving this way if it was Biden?

        • Oh man, I so don’t want to go there. But I think there is definitely an element of that among his most vocal Bernie bros.

        • I once thought that sexism, like r@c!$m, was a near-monopoly of the political Right. The elections of 2008 and 2016 have taught me that sexism is all too common on the Left and in the Center as well. 😦

      • There has been massive voter suppression pro-H Clinton & anti-Sanders. The RI & NY Governors acted as H Clinton hacks, closing polling stations & limiting hours at the last minute, suppressing the vote, especially of working class. The NV D Chair is a H Clinton hack that stole delegates – this story was just in the news. The counterpunch article had H Clinton had the campaign laundering scheme where her owners/”funders” give to 33 state D parties, to get around campaign finance limits. I am scratching the surface, it is hard to keep up with the H Clinton election scandals from this campaign.

        Why does H Clinton hate democracy, the democratic process, & clean/fair elections?

        Sanders is experiencing FAR WORSE campaign shenanigans than whatever 0bama or H Clinton experienced in 2008. Fact.

        Riverdaughter are you aware of these newsstories? You seem to be a logical person.

        • No one cares so much about Sanders at this point as to launch a complex, dangerous, easy-to-discover nefarious vote-stealing plan right out of the movies, requiring tens of thousands of corrupt staff members to pull off, right near the end of the campaign when Clinton is already the nominee, anyway.

          He’s just an elder gentleman with a political agenda that originated over 50 years ago. The persecution line of argument elevates Sanders to near-Messiah status, the focus of the mysterious “corrupt and powerful” (individuals/faceless corporations or banks/Democratic Chair/Democrats in general/older people of the entire country), so dangerous in his precocious brilliance that thousands of people will spend their time and energy focusing entirely on him and his supporters, plotting to make sure he can never become the nominee of the worthless and corrupt Democratic party he is apparently wanting to lead (although the messages are a little bit mixed at this point).

          Logical, indeed.

        • Roberta Lange is not a hack. Politfact looked into the allegations of the Sanders maniacs and found them to be utterly worthless.

          The Bernie Bots are like the Fox News addicts — they don’t believe any information that doesn’t come from their own propaganda mills. If anyone says anything they don’t want to believe, that information must come from Conspiracy Central.

          The fact is, the Bernie campaign has been fighting FILTHY throughout.


          About Nevada:


          That post demonstrates that the Republicans were being organized on Bernie’s behalf.

          Bernie could not prove that his delegates were actual Dems who live in Nevada. When his thugs were not allowed to rig the system, the BernieBots pretended that THEY were being conspired against.

          It’s a classic maneuver: Never apologize, always attack, always pretend that your opponent is some conspiratorial powerhouse, always portray yourself as the betrayed innocent.

          Nobody is buying this nonsense any longer.

          Jeff Weaver, Bernie’s campaign manager, is worse than Karl Rove. That guys is Satan.

  14. What My Mother Sees in Hillary Clinton…

    So I came across this in the Times:

    Now I’m going to tell you a sob story that I pulled out of my ass. Oh wait, no I’m not.

    • Did dear old Mom happen to catch Hillary on CNN, today?
      Hillary was superb: authoritative, warm, confident and authentic.
      I hope your Mom can see the interview; she might learn a thing or two.

    • Georgia State capital building. Wow, that’s interesting.

  15. Riverdaughter, I have important news that affects you directly.

    Someone created a fake version of your site…of this very post.

    It looks the same, but your words were rewritten to include crude insults directed toward Hillary.

    Moreover, Google was rigged so that, when your name was typed in, the result went to the fake site, not to the real Confluence.

    This was brought to my attention by someone who was sent to the fake “Confluence” and couldn’t believe that you would write such things.

    I have the full story here:


    Here is the fake site:


    I don’t know the meaning of that site name! If you have any notion what it means, please let me know.

    But I can assure you that this site DID show up in Google as a first “hit” when the name “riverdaughter” was typed in. This was brought to my attention by someone I know and trust, and who has always admired you.

    • Hey, thanks. I checked your email to make sure you’re you. I’m not worried about it. Site traffic is up so long time readers are finding us anyway.
      We are stomping trolls fine.
      And besides, I never read my critics. It’s a waste of time.

      • I suspect Cannon is correct about the Bernouts, by whom I mean the obnoxious Sanders supporters, as distinct from the decent ones, whom I pity now that Sanders either is revealing his jerkiness, or–if Cannon is indeed correct–he’s being forced to act like a jerk.

        • Katiebird is my favorite Bernie supporter. I completely get her support. We even disagree on some things. But I know that she’s a genuine, sincere person.
          Bernie is lucky to have her.

          • My son and grandaughter are Bernie supporters but you gotta love them anyway.We can at least agree to disagree. I tried to get my granddaughter to volunteer at the local Hillary campaign headquarters with me and she reluctantly told me she was voting for Bernie. she did not want to disappoint me because she knows how long I have been waiting for Hillary to run again but I am proud of her for voting. And she is not one of those obnoxious Bernie people. They will both be voting for Hillary though in the ge though.

      • RD, you have to look at a broader picture.

        A fake version of your site can be used for all sorts of propaganda purposes. God only knows how it is being used when the link is passed around within the BernieBot community.

        We are in very deep waters here. Deeper than either you or I can guess.

        We both saw all sorts of dirty tricks played out in 2008. But this? This is new. I honestly cannot guess what the end game is, but faking up your site required a fair amount of effort. Especially when it came to rigging Google.

        But look on the bright side: They saw fit to hit YOU. I, apparently, remain beneath their notice.

        RD, you still got it!

        • Relax, joe. I checked out that site. It’s been used before by these jerks to misdirect churches and other entities they don’t like.
          What’s the worst that could happen? The left blogosphere will call me a racist and ostracize me into the Oort belt? Been there, done that. I don’t use this blog for income. It’s no big deal.
          But thanks for worrying. I’m touched. 🙂

          • RD, do you think this is related to the story a couple of days back about sudden massive hacking of politician’s sites?

          • I don’t know. From what I can tell from looking at the comments, there’s is DEFINITELY a concerted effort. But I don’t know if they’re all Bernie bros. I’m inclined to believe there’s a right wing conservative element at work here. Because THEY have the most to lose. So they’re much more motivated to stir up trouble and bedevil blogs for Hillary.
            But I’m not easily cowed and I don’t really give a shit what they write.
            I’m sure that the campaigns are monitoring the situation carefully.

          • RD:
            I worry and care.
            You are an excellent writer and fair minded and what I saw in the fake site brings about your reputation with absurd and foul language.

  16. What My Mother Sees in Hillary Clinton…

    In 1951, my mother was a 26 year old widow with a limited education and 18 month old child. The only profession she ever wanted was to be a loving wife and good mother. When life threw her a curve ball, she came back home to live with her caring but dictatorial mother and to work at various pink collar jobs. She worked days and I was taken care of by my grandmother who worked nights. In those days, men didn’t want to be involved with a woman who had “someone else’s child”. If a woman was divorced, she was looked at with suspicion as to ” How did SHE fail as a wife?” My mother sympathized with these women because they were a few steps down the ladder from her social status. I learned very early in life that society is much harder on women than men. Much has changed, but some things still remain.

    I am voting for Hilary for many of the same reasons as people on this blog. However, there is one reason that I wish I did not have to say that I experienced a similarity with Hilary….one that no one should have to endure. For the past seven years ( and for reasons I will not bore you with), I was vilified and the target of unfair remarks and out right lies by people who were afraid of my knowledge and strength. I watched the 2008 primaries and Hilary’s unbelievable courage and dignity. She reminded us not about falling but the importance of getting up. She gave me hope and the incentive to believe in myself and my abilities. I have waited a long time for this election and I believe that it will produce a Hilary victory. There will be bumps along the way with opposition dirty tricks and part of the Bern gang that hasn’t realized the sixties are over and the revolution will not be televised.

    I will be visiting my home town, Philadelphia, during the Democratic Convention. I hope by then Bernie realizes he’s not a 20 year old student activist and be mature enough to understand what is best for the party and the country. Truth be told, I think he is scouting out waterfront property on Lake Champlain bought and paid for by, well draw your own conclusions.

  17. Bernie’s campaign has actually morphed into the South in 1860 as demonstrated by the fact; it requires little adjustment to use Lincoln’s Cooper Union reply:

    “But you will not abide the nomination of Hillary Clinton for president! In that supposed event, you say, you will destroy the Democrats and help elect Trump, and then, you say, the great crime of having elected Trump will be upon us! That is cool. A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, “Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!”

    • Wow, you nailed it. They’ll never be satisfied. There are some really nasty lefty pieces of work who have been on a pied piper power trip for a couple of decades now. They’ve got to be exposed and defanged.
      At this point, Hillary has to crack down. She has no other option.
      Wel’l call it the first test of her presidency.

  18. That’s some mighty fine troll stomping,RD. Whenever I start to read an entry that references “The State”;I always know it’s some idiot that thinks if you use big words that you’re an intellectual and smarter than all those lower class peons out there. I’ve being hearing that shit since the sixties;it gets recycled every few years;nothing more than mental masturbation.
    It would seem that we’re all making the transition to the general election with little knowledge of how Hillary will go after Trump.

    I’d like to suggest a couple of approaches:
    1) The time honored sports metaphor… framing Trump as a rookie and how this country can’t afford rookie mistakes.Follow each of his responses to questions w/ the rookie reference and provide actually viable solutions to contradict his. Can’t argue that he’s a rookie.
    2) A potential Hillary response to Trump bringing up Bill’s troubles..” I understand that Mr. Trump is quite familiar with the Bible,but I take issue with his interpretation of one of it’s passages.. the actual quote is “Let he who is WITHOUT sin cast the first stone..NOT “Let he who has sinned cast the first stone.” Mic Drop

    Lastly, Bernie hasn’t started a revolution;he’s started a devolution.

  19. If RD will allow me to don a freshly folded, outrageously stylish chapeau de Reynolds Wrap

    I had been assuming that the other oligarchs would not want The Donald to become President, and lord it over even them, so they would block his rise to the Presidency one way or another.

    I just realized something this morning. If the other oligarchs can get a safe, controllable right-wing Establishment Republican as Trump’s running mate, and Trump wins, then the other oligarchs need only arrange for a “lone nut” or a “heart attack”, or something else of that nature for Trump, and they’ll get a nice safe Establishment Republican in the White House.

    Indeed, I wonder if that was what was supposed to happen in 1981, but trauma medicine had advanced too far between 1963 and 1981. Lest we forget, Reagan’s Veep had been head of a Certain Interesting Agency. 👿

    I hope we Hillary voters, who probably average less time on Da Intertoobz than Bernouts or Trump Chumps, will prove to be the true “silent majority” this time.

    Madoka-kami-sama willing. 🙂

    • Lol! That’s not so tin foily as you think. I’m not the only one in my circle who thinks that Trump doesn’t really want to be president. It will require too much focused attention for extended periods of time and people won’t really like him running the country like Atlantic City. If he were elected, I can’t see him serving his full term. But I could see someone waiting in the wings to step in.
      It’s very scary. Hard to say that. I mean, what could be scarier than President Trump? Let’s hope we don’t find out.

      • I hadn’t thought about your scenario, but why would Tribble Hair run for Prez if he doesn’t actually want to be Prez?

        • Beats me. I don’t think like a bright orange plutocrat with rotating arm candy. I suspect it’s just something he wants to brag about.
          Maybe he thinks it will compensate for his short little, um, fingers.

          • I think maybe he thought he had no real chance, but that it would be a fantastic advertising opportunity. And it has been, so far.

    • OTOH, concerning my suspicions about 1981–if the attempt on Reagan’s life were a plot rather than a genuine violent nut acting violently nutty, it seems the plotters would have arranged a Jack Ruby or an “unfortunate accident” for Hinckley, to make sure he never spilled the beans.

      However, that would not invalidate my suspicion about the apparent new willingness of the GOP Establishment to accept Trump, or at least not yet.

  20. To bring up something which has been mentioned many times:

    If Hillary is really the darling of the 1%, then why do the minions of the Corporate Media, which is owned by the 1%, present a consistent united front of concern-trolling or outright hostility toward Hillary, exactly as they did in 2008?

    • Omg, I thought you’d never ask!
      Does anyone have a good idea? Bueller?

      Maybe, and I’m going out on a limb here, maybe she is NOT the darling of the 1%. Maybe back in 2008 when the bankerz were facing an enabler or rehab, they threw their weight behind the enabler.
      That’s my theory and I have yet to see anything to refute it.

  21. I think you should be concerned about having your site hijacked. I’ve had you bookmarked for the better part of a decade, so no worries for me, but I remember when I was out searching for sites that reflected my thinking during the dark BuscCheney years, and I don’t want to see someone looking for Hillary love (and it is HARD to find on the toobz these days) bumping into a ratfracker in disguise. I googled “Hillary Clinton friendly blogs” last week (and several other iterations) to see if there is something out there I’m missing, and EVERY SINGLE effing listing on the first page was about how horrible Mrs. Clinton is.

    Also, could you maybe remove Hillary is 44 from your links? I have my daily stops, and periodically I click on the links at the side of your page to see if there’s anyone I want to add to my line-up, and I was pretty shocked to see that Hillary is 44 has turned into a full-on Trumpeteer site. Author should really rename the site something like “Hillary is 44 kinds of evil,” or something that accurately shows the outlook presented.

    And finally, Mr. Sanders and his Randian supporters can go to hell. Time to stop worrying about what a bunch of paid gooper boys are going to do in November, which is whatever the hell the RNC tells them to do (as long as they are still footing the bill). The true believers will either get objective real quick, or will spend election day drinking and drugging. Eff ’em. Time to pound on the Trumpeteers.

    • Thanks for the tips. I’ll clean up the blog roll this weekend.
      Anyway, welcome back!

  22. Cuteness break!

    The beginnings of a mailmare.

  23. Now they are doing it to CannonFire.

    • This makes me put more stock in Cannon’s suspicions of professional rat****ers at work. As mean as the Bernout minority among the Sanders supporters can be, this seems too well-organized for a pack of beer-ponging frat rats.

  24. From Newsweek:

    Sanders: Get Control or Get Out

  25. I so vividly remember 2008 and going to Denver and joining up with PUMA and meeting you in that old house and making signs…I was the old lady in the electric scooter and you were the very pretty lady with the reddish auburn hair…probably don’t remember me but that was the last trip I was able to get out of the house…right after that I had a stroke and things went downhill…but was and am so glad I went and experienced all of that…

  26. I just quit my union after 25 years, after they held a “vote” of “representatives” and endorsed Sanders in opposition to the national union, who endorsed Clinton.

  27. This is for crazy man at CannonFire who thinks he has “spoof proof” website.

    Привет из России! Все ваши базы Blong к нам!

    All your bases are belong to us!!!!!!

    • Well, I was wondering when Trollatubby would get around to making a fake version of me.

    • The real Woodpecker here, accept no substitutes.

      My monster looks like a red tree with arms. Fake IBW’s monster is green.

      • Those little monsters come in handy for ID purposes.
        I’ll have to wait until a little later to clean up on aisle 9. Don’t make any profound comments under the troll’s because it might disappear.

  28. @Fake IBW: What he meant is that while you can spoof his website, it’s useless, because it still says “Roger Stone controls Bernie Sanders” at the top.

    Here’s your theme song, little boy. Now run along and let the grownups talk.

  29. Oh dear lord. This is getting out of hand.

    There is a place for reasoned debate, but I just can’t understand why anyone would do this.

    • I wonder what this Trollatubby thinks he is accomplishing.

      He’s not going to convince any of us to abandon Hillary, and he’s certainly not going to convince RD to shut down this blog.

    • I keep squashing trolls but I think I’ll keep an eye on this one. This one is special. I looked at this comment and as I was scanning it, something very, very familiar jumped out at me. Something that only a network admin or sys admin would recognize from a company that I worked at many years ago.
      I was very surprised. It was like seeing an old friend. In fact, I may know you or the company you contract with. Probably the latter because the thing I saw shouldn’t be in use anymore.

      I might have to call some of my former sys admin friends to find out what’s up. That could be an interesting conversation.

  30. Since RD’s probably going to get rid of the troll comments, I’ll repeat myself.

    I wonder what the Trollatubby thinks he’s accomplishing. He’s not going to convince RD to shut down the blog, and he’s not going to convince any of us to abandon Hillary.

  31. My dear Trollatubby, your posts only stay up as long as they do because RD actually has a life, unlike you, and so isn’t monitoring her blog 24/7.

    But enjoy it while it lasts, Troll of One Thousand Names. I assume you need the lulz to make you feel better about the dismal fact that you will never ejaculate inside a vagina without a prior financial transaction.

  32. Oh, and “cyberwarfare”? Hardly.

    More like cyber-brattiness.

  33. Laugh it up, fuzztroll, but how long do you think you can play before the Malefactors of Great Wealth decide you have been allowed to run too free for too long, and they hire some of your own kind to put some real restraints on the Web?

  34. Fascinating, how your dear leader took the opportunity of this cyber-war tizzy to censor certain awkward but blindingly obvious facts regarding the Clintons’ longstanding relationship with CIA. Not in front of the children, eh?

    • [snark]

      Oh, but you forgot to mention that the CIA “masterminds”, in their turn, were implanted with mind-control chips by the REAL Masters, the little gray space aliens. 😛


    • I see. You believe that Cord Meyer was lyinga bout Clinton’s recruitment. Why would he say such a thing? Have you submitted a FOIA request for the 201 Meyer spoke of? And have you falsified the available evidence concerning the unsatisfying Clinton-era comeuppance of Andreas Strassmeier and Ali Mohamed? Do you agree with Holder regarding King Family v. Jowers? If so, how do you reconcile that opinion with the published rebuttal of the King family’s attorney, William Pepper?

      /snark is for submissive followers.

      • I have simply learned to distrust all bad stories about the Clintons, since so many of those stories have turned out to be fantasies and slanders.

        If your tales are true (I rather doubt that), then the Clintons benefit from a situation similar to that enjoyed by the wolf in the old fairy tale of “The Boy Who Cried Wolf”. So many slanders have been spread about them that many of us, if we hear a true bad thing about them, will assume that it is just another slander.

  35. May I suggest the Trollatubby try Ian Welsh’s blog, linked on the left side of this blog? He sounds like he’d fit right in there, now that Ian seems to be sliding toward the edge of the cliff of sanity, and many of his regulars have already fallen off.

  36. Now the Trollatubby makes vague references to the same old stories about the Clintons. Why should I make the effort to research slanders, rather than dismissing them summarily?

  37. Um-hm, it is characteristic of authoritarian followers to illogically reject evidence or argument that lacks endorsement by accepted authorities. That is the conventionality trait, so called, which actuates the mobbing trait in the Altemayer RWA schema. It is disappointing to see you have evolved in this direction. But then, how else could you have remained faithful to your faction through so many state crimes on their watch?

    • Yeah, I’m such a RWA that I never voted for a GOP presidential candidate in my life, and I’ve voted in every presidential election since 1984 (I turned 18 in 1981).

      Thanks for playing, and please accept these lovely parting gifts! 😆

    • “Um-hm, it is characteristic of authoritarian followers to illogically reject evidence or argument that lacks endorsement by accepted authorities.”

      In other words, “The truth is out there”? 😉

    • You’ve obediently followed your Democrats while they set the constitution aside with the PATRIOT Act, castrated congress and the courts, institutionalized extrajudicial killing by drone and ‘special forces’ death squads, imposed ubiquitous surveillance, actively obstructed justice for torture and even kept it up (ask Gulet Mohamed and Chelsea Manning.) Goldwater wouldn’t have gone that far. In what way are you not extremely right-wing?

      • I suppose I am, by your definition of “right-wing”, but then I expect Sanders would be mildly right-wing by your definition.

        • But yes, while I don’t know who Gulet Mohamed is, Chelsea Manning (and Edward Snowden, for that matter) are actual patriots and should be pardoned.

        • Jeez, you are a glutton for punishment today, IBW.
          He’s never read this blog if he’s throwing Altemeyer at us.
          But if you enjoy playing with your food, just let me know when you’re done and you need me to push him into the grease trap.

          • Push him whenever you see fit, RD–it’s your blog.

            But who says I’m the one being punished? 😈

          • On a more serious note, I think we have two different Trollatubbies on this thread. There’s the For-The-Lulz dude who makes the spoof sites, and then there’s “Mr. Seal”, who seems to be a serious Leftist sort of fellow, despite his occasionally arch tone.

    • Sorry, Mr. Seal, but I get a distinct whiff of bitter almonds off your red pill. (Our hostess will recognize the reference.) 😉

      • Note to RD: I don’t mind if my replies get erased with the Trollatubby’s posts, when you get around to it. I’m enjoying myself. :mrgreen:

        • An appeal to authority combining submission with passive aggression! What a maverick.

          • Mr. Seal sounds as if he is regurgitating a half-digested Psychology 101 textbook.

          • Ivory Bill and I are long time friends. And he’s been here long enough to know that he can get away with just about anything here.
            YOU, Barry, are a different story.

      • Aw, shozbot! With the bitter almond reference, I should have said “off your Kool-Aid”–or “off your Flavor-Aid”, to be really precise.

  38. I won’t insult the readers’ intelligence by linking to Andrew Levine on Counterpunch, but he amused me unintentionally with this sentence:

    “Part of the explanation is that Clinton has the newspapers, cable networks and broadcast media that set the national agenda under her thumb.”

    In other words, according to Levine, the Corporate Media are Hillary’s friends.

    Ayumu “Osaka” Kasuga reacts.

    On what parallel Earth does Levine live?

  39. There is a common notion among the various alternate-thinking communities, in which every crank who comes down the pike with some offbeat theory is another Galileo, persecuted by authority figures with shuttered minds–even if the authorities do not punish the crank, or do not even rebuke him, but merely ignore him.

    Indeed, alternate thinkers should not be punished, but very few of them are new Galileos. The vast majority of them are mere cranks, and it is not foolish or unethical to ignore them.

    • There is a limited amount you can do when faced with genuine paranoid thinking. Everything is incorporated into it.

      • If RD can get the lounge going tonight, you just made me think of a song to post. :mrgreen:

      • And you don’t see the irony in your statement, given that you are a frequent poster on this site?

        • I think that to be human is to be crazy in one way or another, to one degree or another–so I guess any evaluation of anyone else’s mental state is somewhat ironic.

          The reason for my thinking that is that we humans have the same powerful emotional will to live as any other life-form with a sufficiently developed brain, but we humans know that each of us must die someday. I suspect this makes us at least slightly mad, as a species.

          Come to think of it, “mad” in both senses of the word: “insane” and “angry”.

          • Let me clarify: you don’t see the irony in your statement, given the level of crank worship on this site? Have you read the absolutely insane $hit on that cannonfire site?

          • Actually, I lack Joe’s taste for the deeply unconventional stuff, but I consider it harmless in his case. I guess I simply don’t pay much attention to it.

    • Applying your peer-pressure concept of epistemology, every UPR shows that the offbeat cranks, comprising a negligible remnant of the population, are US statists. And as the outside world increasingly ignores your quaint statist patriotism, who’s to say they’re foolish or unethical?

      • I had to look up UPR (note for your future reference; the vast majority of the population of this planet does not speak fluent Acronymese). From the context, I guess it means Universal Periodic Review?

        If you think it is safe for you to say, in which country of “the outside world” do you live?

        Do you perhaps work for the UN? If yes, that might explain your psychological motive in overestimating the power of that institution to control the depredations of Global Capital.

    • But you and this riverdaughter person ooze galileo-ness from every pore. How do you all not see this?

  40. Since RD asked for the name of the song I’m thinking of:

    • Hmmm. It might be a bit too much much this week. I’m going to go with something more upbeat. But we should definitely put this on our play list.

  41. While Riverdaughter claims specialized technical training, her habits of mind do not suggest a rigorous liberal education. Her capacity for argumentation seems limited to threats and breast-beating over fancied rhetorical coups. She does not address the substance of arguments that discomfit her. This is consistent with social-science research showing rigidity and escalating hostility toward widely accepted evidence of state crime (see Wood and Douglas on ‘conventionalist’ fanaticism, and Manwell and Hoffman in American Behavioral Scientist 2010 on confirmation bias as a trait.)

    • Oh snap!

      But seriously, RD doesn’t just “not address the substance of arguments that discomfit her”, she just flat out deletes anything discomfits her – along with the entire comment thread under it. Which begs the question: why even have a blog that allows comments? This whole site is just one giant circle-jerk and mutual admiration society.

      • That’s right. We’re having fun, supporting the candidate we admire and respect. It might not be your cup of tea. You’re free to leave. We won’t be offended.

        • But if you just didn’t allow comments, then you wouldn’t have to go back over the site every day and delete everything you don’t agree with.

          • I do what I want. You must have missed the part where I said it is my blog.
            I’m shameless.

    • I don’t argue with people with you guys because 1.) you’re operating from an emotional state and it’s pointless to argue with emotional people and 2.) I don’t have to. It’s my blog.
      If you don’t like it, get your own blog.

    • Vincenzo enjoys showing people how big his–education–is. 😉

      • IBW just likes to emasculate men with her big wood pecker. Don’t disagree with anyone here or they’ll kick you out of the she-woman man haters club!

  42. cannot believe it but the DNC has offered Sanders more seats on committees mainly the rules committee…my god he doesn’t deserve this and they give in to him. he is going to manipulate his self into being the nominee…if so, what on earth can we do….


  44. Hmm, What emotional state is that? Seething rage at having been consigned to the lumpenproletariat by predatory corporations who pay your champions to screw you? No, wait, that can’t be it, that would be projection. Well, then perhaps the emotional state you patronize is bemusement at the subject population’s docile submission to gutting of labor rights inter alia ICESCR Article 8 and ILO Conventions 87 and 98. Does it ever occur to you to ask when you’re going to get that?

    The question answers itself.

    • More arcane Acronymese. I assume those refer to more noble but hollow pronouncements from the UN. We peasants don’t turn to that organization for help, because we know its impotence.

    • Exercise your rights? Nah.
      Assert your rights? Nah.
      Defend your rights? Nah.

      Ask the UN for help?
      Nah, they’re …impotent!

      And they wonder why they’re so embarrassingly downtrodden.

  45. I must go away for a while. Ciao for nao.

  46. Cocktail party is up!

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