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OMG, get a grip, Michelle

Michelle Alexander is not the only one who can’t get over 2008 but for her, she got everything she could possibly hope for back then. So what the hell is her problem?

She recently wrote Why Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve the Black Vote in the Nation recently where she blamed everything but bubonic plague on the Clintons. Sixteen years after Bill Clinton left office, eight years after George W. Bush, and and eight years after Barack Obama had “Feminist in Chief” and “Civil Rights Leader Extraordinaire” woven in big sparkly letters over his head, she still thinks that it was Bill who brought economic misery on African Americans.

Nevermind that some of us were not in a fog back in the 90s and actually saw what happened with Welfare Reform. Nevermind that throwing money at people is good strategy after a financial catastophe but catastrophic over a lifetime. Nevermind that the right wingers mobilize and herd a lot better than us to enact draconian policies on poor children of all colors but especially on black children.

No, in Michelle’s opinion, it’s all Bill’s fault. Oh, and Hillary’s fault. Hey? Remember CHIP, Michelle? Didn’t think so.

I can not for the life of me figure out why Michelle is so furious with the Clintons but says almost nothing about Obama.

What did he do about the economic consequences of the financial collapse in 2008? According to Paul Krugman, not nearly enough.

What did he do to protect homeowners from losing their houses? In that respect, his policies were almost worse than nothing. Homeowners might have been better off not applying for mortgage relief at all. Go ask Dave Dayen.

What did he do about long term unemployment- for anybody? I can answer that from personal experience. Nada.

Finally, what did he do to curb gun violence? Jeez, Stephen Colbert, hardly a right winger, says he acted like the Assistant Lifeguard in Chief.

What’s really annoying about Michelle’s stupid rant is that we *are* all in this together but we are participating in the dumbest, most self-destructive act of arguing over who got the smallest piece of the pie that the right wing nutcases are laughing their asses off and voting for Trump.

{{going into my best 2008 psychological manipulation tactics perfected by Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign, here goes:}}

Is that what you want, Michelle? Do you want Donald Trump to be president? Donald “screw over my employees in Atlantic City every time I go bankrupt” Trump? Or maybe you would prefer Ted “little kids might have to die it’s all about personal responsibility” Cruz.

Because those are your choices, Michelle. And remember, it was Bill Clinton who nominated Lani Guinier, voting rights expert, for Attorney General, which was an inspired choice. If the Republicans win the White House, voting is going to get more and more difficult over time. Do you want to be responsible for that, Michelle? Go ahead, sit this one out. Let some confused and angry religious nutcase who is scared out of their pajamas go and vote for Trump or Cruz in your place.

Pick a Republican or Bernie or Hillary. My heart says Bernie but my head says Hillary. I’m going with my head. I have no idea what part of the anatomy you’re working with, Michelle. Maybe your gall bladder?

BTW, I just saw another youtube video from the Daily Show featuring Sr. Beyonce Correspondent Jessica Williams going off about Rudy Giuliani’s comments on Beyonce’s half time show. Weirdly, I read a similarly confounding post by Wesley Morris on the NYTimes the other day about how Beyonce was the best thing since the universe began and Lady Gaga was a has been. In fact, I think the words “has been” were actually used. What I couldn’t understand was why these two people are protesting too much.

You know, Rudy is a jerk. Who cares what he says anyway? Nevermind that both Bruno Mars and Beyonce have won my coveted Lick My Love Pump Award for writing catchy little ditties with X-rated lyrics that you can’t help but find yourself singing to as you drive your kids to school. (I’ve done that, actually. Sang harmony to Gorilla and felt dirty afterwards but I digress).

Here’s my point. If YOU like Beyonce and think she is the most amazing singer and entertainer ever, great! Have a blast, download all her songs. Dance til your ass falls off. i don’t care. I don’t even care if she has a political message. She’s entitled. I might even happen to agree with her. In fact, I *do* agree with her.

But don’t tell me I have to throw away all of the rest of my personal favorite things because someone else is telling me what is or isn’t in. I prefer to think for myself. I can take Beyonce in small doses. I don’t think she’s the greatest singer ever. She’s not bad but she’s no Lady Gaga. And her genre of music is not what I find myself tuned into, apple Beats be damned. Britney Howard? I could listen to her all damn day. She’s wildly entertaining even without a body con costume with matching artillery. Years from now, we’ll still be singing Hold On on classic rock stations while Beyonce will be a “has been”.

That’s the way of fame. Here today, gone the next. It’s only a fricking Superbowl half time show. It’s bubbly and energetic, cost millions and is gone in half an hour. I can be entertained without setting up an altar to her in my house. We all have differences of opinion and personal preferences. It’s called diversity.

So what is it about the criticism of Beyonce that is getting on the nerves? Why are so many people doing the Kanye West unnecessarily hurting Taylor Swift at an awards show thing? I mean other than Fox News and its guests always loving authoritarian people crushers and lacking any sense of empathy for what black people have to go through, this is pretty SOP by now for Fox. I have no idea but I would not be surprised to see a lot more of what seems like jittery and bitter panic in the next 10 months. We don’t know what’s coming and the last eight years have been nobody’s picnic, especially for the people who had a right to expect better.




105 Responses

  1. I tell you it’s full on Bros before Hos again. Sexism run rampant and everything. Same ugliness with Karl Rove’s PAC supporting Bernie.

    • OK, I’m out of here. (Waves)

      • I wish it was not true. Ugh. I do not relish reliving it but it’s all coming back with Bernie. MSNBO has become MSNBS.

    • Some Bros like ponies before hos – they are called Bronies. Bronies for Bernie 2016!

    • Um… the “Bernie Bros” don’t actually exist. Perhaps you can provide evidence of these boys…


      • Or they may exist but maybe they aren’t what you think.

      • Holy Haruhi! RD is getting a bunch of new people here (assuming it’s not one or two Bros–or GOP ratf**kers pretending to be Bros–with a bunch of different names). 😉

        I don’t think Hillary is the monster that Glenzilla, and presumably Fred, think she is. If she actually is a monster, then she is benefiting from the long history of right-wing lies against her (and Bill). So many GOP operatives and free-lance wingnuts have fabricated and spread so many horror stories about her that if an honest journalist finds a genuine sin of hers, I will probably assume it’s just another right-wing operative crying, “She-Wolf!”. (BTW, I consider the corporate media, including the so-called “liberal” media, to consist of right-wing operatives, witting or not.)

        • >>BTW, I consider the corporate media, including the so-called “liberal” media, to consist of right-wing operatives, witting or not

          That’s some real sophisticated analysis. Just the sort of perspective we’ve come to expect from the geriatric shut-ins on RiverDaughter…

      • I’m sorry but that’s nothing short of apologia for Bernie’s supporters. They exist. They are all over twitter and the internet. It’s the same Bros before Hos crowd from 2008 of which Greenwald was one. I’m sure he probably didn’t think they existed back then either. Right now they’re trashing John Lewis all over the internet.

        • Although to repeat what I said below, I do wonder how many of the “Bros” are genuine, if obnoxious, Sanders supporters–compared to how many of them are right-wing ratf**kers, GOP or irregular?

          As G6D has already noted, the GOP would probably prefer to run against Bernie than Hillary.

          • I’ve wondered that, too, and that recent bogus Nevada poll appears to support your hypothesis.

  2. Like I said on the last thread, trust but verify.

  3. can not for the life of me figure out why Michelle is so furious with the Clintons but says almost nothing about Obama.

    The Clinton’s are his whipping children. The point is expressly not to talk about the guy in the White House for last 8 years. That would just not do

    • Damn taps

    • The Clintons are the whipping post for the entire left wing of the party ever since Bill left office. I have decided that they liked losing presidential elections by a landslide rather than winning them. They in a lot of ways align more with Ralph Nader than they do the party.

    • Hillary is a dried out old hag

  4. http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/02/09/fein-f09.html

    White House pushes ahead with plan to slash pensions for up to one million retirees

    Although retirees had initially been told that the cuts to their benefits would average less than 30 percent, nearly all of those who spoke at the hearing said they had been notified over the Christmas holiday that they would lose between 50 and 80 percent of their pension benefits

    Notifying during Xmas is part of the fun

  5. Riverdaughter, I am glad that you are finding the time to become more engaged, and writing your usual interesting essays.

    Just briefly, I hope that at some point your heart says Hillary as well as your head. I wrote under your essay below my views on the Sanders candidacy.

    As to Ms. Alexander’s comments, I will just say that my mother, who along with my father was an FDR and Stevenson Democrat,suggested to me many years ago that the Democratic Party had a death wish. We get evidence all the time which seems to validate that. If any Republican wins the White House this time, this country will turn into a nightmare. Alexander would probably blame that on the Clintons, too. The Clintons are the American scapegoats; none of the other presidents or political leaders are blamed for anything. President Obama did very little with the political capital he had, and now we have fewer Democrats in the Senate, and far fewer in the House, than when he first ran. I’m sure that Alexander has some interesting ideas on how that happened, and how it can be fixed. Getting Trump or Cruz elected would be her potential contribution.

  6. I agree with William. I did hear three things today that made me more hopeful. First, SC callers to a radio talk show on Sirius today really made strong, sound arguments for Hillary and against Sanders (unicorns…). Then, one woman called in and asked whether or not he thought Hillary having ‘stayed with her husband’ despite his bad behavior would make her unelectable, ‘unlike Bernie.’ The host said her question was repulsive and disgusting, ‘how is that relevant?,’ ‘leave people’s marriages alone,’ ‘why not ask that of Trump, who has left marriages twice,’ etc. He was furious, and it was nice for a change. Another woman called in and said ‘Black people will not forget what Hillary Clinton did for us in Arkansas and across the nation; she is responsible for me getting a college education as a single mother.’

    Obama made it clear today that, without formally endorsing her, he wants her to be the nominee–a strange article: http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/10/politics/jay-carney-president-obama-supports-hillary-clinton/index.html I am sure she is repeating his name because she is trying to signal to ‘establishment’ (HA!) Dems that she is on board and will help them in November and over the next x years, unlike Sanders.

    Also, Al Sharpton met with Sanders today and didn’t endorse him, and in fact, looked very uncomfortable, arms crossed, in the released photos of the meeting.

    Nate Silver’s 538 website has been very consistent and informative about the coming flame-out of Sanders’ campaign, as well.

    Take heart, Riverdaughter. I am.

    • When I say my heart isn’t in it this time, I meant it. She really needs to dump her data guys. They’re not doing her any favors.

      • I think that Hillary is a far better potential president than she is a campaigner. There are some people who are great campaigners, but who would make terrible presidents. I am very confident that Hillary, if elected, would be a great president, so that is what both thrills me about her campaign, and also worries me, because if Americans miss this chance to elect her, we will likely not be able to recover from the consequences of it.

        • “I think that Hillary is a far better potential president than she is a campaigner. There are some people who are great campaigners, but who would make terrible presidents.”–William

          That has happened at least twice before in my memory. In both 1980 and 2000, the more responsible fellow, who would have made a better President, lost because he was a worse campaigner.

          I should add that I think no one who won the 1976 presidential election could have won a second term–the USA had too many metaphorical and literal bills coming due during those four years, and whoever was Prez at that time was going to get blamed, whether it was his fault or not. If Reagan had won the GOP nomination in 1976–as he almost did–and then the general election, Reagan would have been thrown out in the 1980 election.

          • I said Carter and Gore lost because they were worse campaigners, but I forgot to mention that there are persistent suspicions of Reptilian chicanery in both of those elections.

  7. Because Real Change Is Too Hard (and I’m owned by Gold Man Sacks, there’s that..)

    • Wow.Who is this 4Chan?!

      Well, here is some info from the NFB (News For Bimbos) news network:

    • I don’t loathe Senator Sanders the way Uppity Woman does. I could actually vote for the curmudgeon in November if he somehow wins (and if the Bernie Bros don’t alienate me).

      However, I agree with Uppity that he’s a GOP opposition researcher’s dream opponent.


      Also, as far as foreign policy is concerned, Sanders is a pro-Imperial “status quo” candidate, just like Clinton and the Reptilians. They differ only in details. No one who actually wants to dismantle the filthy Empire of Capital and put all that “defense” spending to work taking care of human needs would be allowed to become President.

      As ever, please note that I said “Empire of Capital”, not “Empire of the USA” or “American Empire”. Capital is Sauron; Uncle Sam is merely the Lord of the Nazgul.

  8. Here is what would make me vote for Hillary…

  9. Today in the NYT is an article entitled, Stop Bernie-splainin to Black Voters:

    ‘I cannot tell you the number of people who have commented to me on social media that they don’t understand this [Clinton] support. “Don’t black folks understand that Bernie best represents their interests?” the argument generally goes. But from there, it can lead to a comparison between Sanders and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.; to an assertion that Sanders is the Barack Obama that we really wanted and needed; to an exasperated “black people are voting against their interests” stance.

    ‘If only black people knew more, understood better, where the candidates stood — now and over their lifetimes — they would make a better choice, the right choice. The level of condescension in these comments is staggering.’

  10. I support Sanders, because Sanders supports a Social Democratic-type economic policy. I support Social Democratic policy, because EMPIRICALLY it works. Strong Social Democracy nations Denmark dominate the top of the world list in many socioeconomic factors, including life expectancy, social mobility, median income & wealth, & even the happiness index. “Moderate” Social Democracy nations like Canada & Germany also are high on the list. All higher than the “Exceptional” Murica. In the USian tradition, the Social Democracy Presidents include FD Roosevelt & LB Johnson (his Vietnam War policy sucked). ML King is possibly the best USian political philosopher, with his triple philosophy of racial equality, Social Democratic economic opportunity & security, & anti-War/Empire. Sanders is possibly the Pres candidate closest to MLK in policy since MLK’s death, except on the anti-War part (although Sanders did say he wanted to cut the military/Empire budget in tonight’s debate).

    I am anti-rightwing neoliberal Reaganomic economic policy, because empirically it has proven to be a failure in the US. US median adult income is flat or down since 1980 despite productivity roughly doubling. I am against neoliberal Reagan Jr politicians, and sadly all the Presidents from Reagan to 0bama have been Reagan Jrs, & H Clinton is another neoliberal Reagan Jr.

    Just the 2 cents from a pro-Sanders, anti-0bama voter, in contrast to the stereotyped “Bernie Bro” fake caricature that some commenters here are inventing.

    Ask RD & katiebird, I have trashed 0bama Reagan Jr on many on comment on this RD blog over the past few yrs. 0bama Reagan V aka 0bama Bush43 Jr has been a disaster, with the
    1 traitorous TPP, in which Corporate Kangaroo Courts can override US law, among many other bad TPP attributes.

    2 killing/blocking both the Medicare Public Option & MedicareForAll which per Harvard Public Health Profs’ study leads to death of ~30K+ USians/yr – far more than T3rist Boogeymen Du Jour like IS1S

    3 legally establishing the concept of forced purchase of a oligopolist cartel’s crappy service with ACA Individual Mandate

    4 increase in income inequality, even worse than under the failure Bush43

    5 countless (thankfully failed) attempts to steal USians Earned Benefits of Social Security & Medicare with his “Grand Bargain” Grand Ripoff, which only did not get implemented because many Congressional White Reagan Jrs are blindingly racist against their fellow half-Black Reagan Jr – we USians dodged a bullet here! Similar to the time we dodged a bullet to when B Clinton Reagan III tried to privatize Social Security, but a scandal derailed his effort.

    6 legally normalizing dictator-murder without judicial process of US citizens, at least for citizens outside US soil (example was in Yemen)

    I am pro-Sanders, very anti-0bama, yet very pro-MLK. I know 0bots are unlikely to comprehend this stance, hopefully H Clinton voters might be able to.

  11. RD, you call Law Prof Michelle Alexander’s editorial “a rant”. If it is a rant, it is an expert rant, she is a renown “Subject Matter Expert” on US criminal justice.

    • Ah, so we are supposed to defer to her authority?

      First, Bill Clinton was the first president that had to deal with the crazy ass take no prisoners republican tactics. He was the first to have to live with Fox News. He got clobbered early on kumbaya wood and lani guinier, Vince foster, don’t ask don’t tell. It was one thing after another. He still passed a tax increase in his first two years on wealthier people.
      But I saw how blindsided he was and how the Republicans successfully derailed and polluted his agenda. How old were you?
      He adjusted over time but let’s just say the GOP won and ruined a lot of very good ideas with poison pills including draconian crap in welfare reform and criminal justice.

      Then came Bush. Enough said.
      Then there was Obama. He had a majority in both houses to work with. Really, if he had come into the White House prepared, having done his policy homework and set up working coalitions in Congress, he could have done a lot to fix what the GOP broke.
      But here’s the thing. He didn’t do that.
      He didn’t change the justice system and he didn’t help poor people. Of any color.

      It’s been 23 years since Clinton went to Washington with a lot of great ideas and got crushed by an avalanche of media and Republican bullshit. But they truly were great ideas.

      Obama could have changed some of that. He could have learned from clinton’s experience. He could have changed stuff. He didn’t. Why continue to blame Clinton??

      I’ll tell you why. It was very important to obama’s backers to keep the left quiet while they set things up for themselves. So anyone who challenged him on the left was called a racist. That squashed dissent from the liberals.

      But now he’s leaving and no one is happy with the way things turned out, not least of which are African Americans who have suffered in this economy and are getting shafted in the due process process.

      But we still can’t criticize Obama. It’s not allowed to say he sucked as a president and his legacy is that he did almost nothing while we all got poorer. So they’re doing the only thing they can do- stick it on Hillary. Everyone knows that’s ok.

      I would be upset and panicking too if I were Michelle but I’d be directing my ire at the guy who should have looked out for us and did nothing. THAT makes sense.

      • Is there anything Prof. Alexander states in her editorial that is incorrect? I am anti-authoritarian, I also am more willing to believe what a Prof says than a US Poli-trick-ian.

        Instead of bashing the messenger (Alexander), explain what if anything she is saying is incorrect. Also “Hillary is a Lesser Evil on Criminal Justice, Ted Cruz is worse” is not persuasive.

        An acknowledged Subject Matter Expert may be risking trashing their career & reputation, if they go in to hack mode by making incorrect statements. One example of such a hack is the Exxon-funded hack climatologist that says climate change is not real. A 2nd example economist & H Clinton advocate Paul Krugman laughably claiming H Clinton financial services regulation policy is more comprehensive than Sanders’ Glass Steagall reinstatement & breaking up 2 Big 2 Fail Banks over a certain asset size, which has been debunked by many including economist Dean Baker, financial journalists Yves Smith & David Dayen who opined Sanders has the more effective fin svcs policy.

      • RD, I have bashed right-wing neoliberal 0bama Reagan Jr repeatedly in comments here & other blogs. I have no idea on what Prof. Alexander stated on 0bama. Regardless, 0bama is irrelevant for the purpose of the 2016 race.

        • It is very relevant. Michelle is unhappy. I don’t blame her for being unhappy. But her guy could have done *something* in the last eight years and didn’t.

          I grew up in a fundamentalist cultish religion that had one positive aspect. It taught me to loathe racism in all forms. In the last eight years, I’ve had to put up with a lot of shit from my own side and have had everything I have said filtered through the lens of racism accusations. And all I have ever said is that Obama was an ambitiously ruthless but weak politician who was hired by the finance industry to protect their interests to the detriment of everything else. And people who voted for him should have taken a good look at this record or lack thereof before he stupefied them into voting for him.

          I get who Michelle chose him as her president. I understand her wanting to have someone who would have a better sense of what is important to African Americans. But He Didn’t and He a doesn’t. He identifies with a class. That class is upper middle class professionals with over educated stay at home wives. He’s a conservative, he’s traditional and he’s working for the bankers. Always was, always will be.

          Even if we could give him a third term, he couldn’t and wouldn’t do anything differently.

          We can’t give him a third term and as far as I can tell Keith Ellison isn’t ready to run (I’d vote for him).
          So, yes, Michelle is going to have to swallow her pride and put her trust in someone else. This time, she has an opportunity to try a woman. We’ve never done one of those before. She’s got 1/8th more chromosome than every president who came before her.

          Will Michelle get everything she wants? I don’t know. But I do know that the country did better economically under the Clintons than any time in the past 20 years. So, you know, there’s that.

          Plus, I’m fairly certain that under a Hillary admin, the shootings of unarmed black men would stop.

          And then there’s the Supreme Court.

          Don’t get me wrong. I like Bernie and I’m not going to slam anyone who votes for him. They have legitimate reasons for going with sanders.

          But I have to let my head do the math for me in my presidential matrix and Hillary is my candidate. Ymmv.

      • fw joincampaignzero dot org . Campaign Zero is the criminal justice policy group of Blacklivesmatter. Scroll down to “Get the Facts on the 2016 Elections”. Campaign Zero has a 10-point policy list, Sanders supports 9/10 policies, H Clinton 6/10, the Rs are horrible ~1/10.

        • Black lives DO matter. But that is not my only criteria for picking a candidate.

          Young people of every color, their lives matter
          Women over fifty who can’t get jobs in this economy, well let’s just say that their lives matter as much to me as black men matter to Michelle. She’s got her priorities, I’ve got mine. Why isn’t she just as concerned about what matters to me? She’s going to be a woman over fifty soon. Doesn’t she know any women over fifty who have lost professional jobs and are living in poverty, one step away from homelessness, without healthcare? She needs to get out more often because I know plenty.

          Eight years ago, we eere asked to put black lives ahead of everything else. And what happened? I venture to say that black lives would have done better under Clinton in the past eight years because she would have made better decisions on the economy. She wasn’t completely captured by the finance guys. Oh, you don’t believe me? Then why did they throw all their money to her opponent? They made their choice.

          Let’s stop singling out one group of people as deserving more attention than any other group and look at the problem from a systemic POV. Michelle needs some Xanax and to get some perspective on this.

          It’s not all about black lives anymore. If she were smart, she’d see an opportunity in that. She doesn’t.

  12. My prior comment didn’t register. Let me provide a TL/DR version:

    I am pro-Social Democracy economic policy, pro-Denmark’s policy, pro-empiricism that shows Social Democracy works much better for actual people in socioeconomic stats including life expectancy & social mobility than neoliberal policy does, thus support Sanders, am pro-ML King Jr, pro FD Roosevelt, pro-LB Johnson;

    and anti right-wing neoliberal Reganomics, anti-0bama Reagan V, anti-H Clinton.

    A perspective that hopefully contrasts with this fake “Bernie Bro” caricature being narrated by some anti-Sanders voters in recent days.

    • Alas for PND and other respectable Sanders supporters, the Bernie Bros have shown up here, especially in the thread just before this one.

      *sad trombone*

      I remember there were respectable Obama supporters in 2008, too. That didn’t stop me from becoming so irritated at the obnoxious sort of Obama supporters that I voted Green–twice–rather than vote for Obama. (No way was I going to vote GOP.)

      The Bros haven’t put me off Sanders (if he wins the nomination, which I still don’t expect) yet, but they’re making steady progress toward it.

      • I’ve mentioned this particular fact before in these discussions but I think a revisit is relevant. During the 08 campaign I received five death threats. (I count only those received by email.) One was from a foaming right wing Nugent type but four were from Obots— all accusing of me of various sins including racism. I received my first comment troll from a Bernout a week or so ago and it was very, very familiar in tone, with the typical vocabulary of hag, crone, vagina, criminal used in the usual way. I hope we’re not heading that way again, but the road thus far looks very familiar.

        • Ah, yes. I was interviewed by a major eastern newspaper (below Delaware) for an article supposedly on sexism in the campaign in 2008, and it turned out to be a smear. I was completely misquoted, received shockingly aggressive emails from colleagues, three death threats, and six emails of strong support. I called the editor of the newspaper and left a message, and OF COURSE didn’t even receive a call back. I called the author of the article, who said to me, “I stand by my article.” Since then, I believe little that I read in the papers. The comments sections of articles are a cesspool already.

    • BTW, I didn’t put your comment in moderation. There’s an auto moderate thingy that’s triggered by somewhat innocuous things like too many links or specific words.
      I’ll fish it out later.
      I’d never filter your comments out.

    • I find it curious that there is no mention of budget. That is, European single payer countries do not have a ton of money going to their defense budgets like we do, and can therefore better afford social spending. The military industrial complex is not going to lie down and allow its budget to be decimated, nor are more than half the American public whose main concern is ‘terrorism.’

  13. I thought Hillary Clinton’s performance at the debate tonight was stellar, and was given an A- by Nate Silver of 538. Also peased to see she got the endorsement of the Congressional Black Caucus today, despite Michelle Alexander’s article.

    • I agree, she did well, and she almost always does. Her closing shot at Sanders for criticizing Obama in print was somewhat risky, and I am sure it angered Sanders people; but he has been carping at her all along, as in digging up some comment in her book about learning some things from Kissinger.

      It’s a tricky matter. I tend to agree with RD as to Obama not being a very effective President, given the majorities he had when he won after the economy collapsed in ’08. I think he has done better in the last couple of years in regard to expressing concerns about climate change and gun regulation. However, now he has no power to do anything, because the Republicans were able to run against him for eight years, and now dominate the Congress and state legislatures. That must be fixed if the country is to have any chance. Hillary can possibly do so, Sanders cannot. End of story.

      Waving your hands around and saying how you want to fix a rigged casino, and tax Wall Street, etc., plays well to the audience, but is of no effect, since he couldn’t possibly do it. Actually, the economy has been rigged since the 1700’s, as has England’s, and everyone else’s. The Workers’ Revolution is not coming, but changes and improvements can be made by leaders who will seek coalitions. It will take Hillary eight years to try to reverse the dominance of right-wing corporatists, but she will work as hard as anyone could. It seems so absolutely obvious to me; plus she is the smartest person out there.What liberals, progressives, whatever they want to call themselves, should be doing, is trying to get Hillary elected, and then working hard for downticket Denocrats in as many feasible states as possible. The fantasy way seems easier and more fun, but it ends up like the massacre at the Battle of Culloden. If Democrats no longer have the interest or will to work hard state by state for change, then the fascist oligarchs will win.

      • Well, they are doing well today. Sanders and Clinton are now tied in Nevada.

        • She shouldn’t be tied with him. But she HAS to change her message.
          No one wants to hear “there’s nothing I can do to change things”.
          She has to be very specific about how she can get things done. One of those things Is to ask voters to examine their voting habits. Just because a republican is an incumbent in a district does not mean that it is impossible to replace that person.

          • No one wants to hear “there’s nothing I can do to change things”.

            Particularly from a person who has always prided themselves on the ability to get things done and says that why she’s right for the job.

        • That poll comes from what looks like an extreme right-wing publication, from my viewing of the site. I doubt that it has an validity. I would guess that Hillary is ahead by some smallish amount, at least. Nevada is a caucus state, and those are always unpredictable.

          • I’m sorry, William. You’re totally right. I dug around and found it was a “consulting poll,” commissioned by a right-wing group out of Washington. It was kind of hard to find that info, however, and what’s being reported all over the internet is “Bernie’s tied with Clinton!!!”

          • Another demonstration that the right-wingers would prefer to run against Bernie than against Hillary.

      • Waving your hands around and saying how you want to fix a rigged casino, and tax Wall Street, etc., plays well to the audience, but is of no effect, since he couldn’t possibly do it

        No one is asking her to do that… Just don’t throw the towel in on the stump…ok?

        • Exactly

        • I don’t know how you could possibly infer from my comments, or from Hillary’s speeches or presentations, that she is conceding anything. It is truly baffling. She is promising all sorts of things. She has programs and plans all over her website.

          Sanders simply recites a wishlist which the Left has held onto for many decades. I agree with most of it as principles, but it is totally unfeasible, particularly now. I remember all those people thrilled at McGoverns’s nomination–and that got us five straight elections defeats, the tarring of the word “liberal,” and deregulation everywhere. Hillary is more liberal than her husband, and than Gore, and at least equal to Kerry in that regard. People voting for Sanders are like the Jacobins who ended up guillotining all of their own party, and gave France Napoleon and then a return to the Bourbon Dynasty. If they don’t see it, or don’t care, we will all suffer. Hillary is not conceding one thing in the real world.

          • I have kids who prefer sanders and they have very good reasons related to student debt.
            Plus, they’re thinking ahead as far as sustainable agriculture, mass transit, urban renewal, etc. I think they’re really forward thinking. And they need someone like sanders who isn’t going to be happy with the status quo.
            As for Clinton, I see what she’s doing going into South Carolina and I understand why she needs to go it.
            But, she shouldn’t have said “never ever” about opening up the ACA to vigorous debate. That right there was a very big mistake. It has nothing to do with loving republicans or their healthcare policies. It has everything to do with a very bad policy that some of us are stuck with. Saying “never ever” was the progressive equivalent of “let them eat cake” to people who can’t afford bread. It was tone deaf and disconnected from how bad the ACA is and how it has affected people’s lives.
            So, she’s not perfect and someone is giving her really bad advice on clinging to Obama with populations that are not all African Americans

          • When a person says “There’s nothing I can do” I infer that person is conceding. If that’s a mistake, I’m not making it. Also ” Look at my record” is a homework assignment, not a stump speech . Just saying

  14. 100% of war criminals endorse Clintonpolitik… Now she just needs to sew up the crypto-nazi demographic.

    • How many of the alleged Bernie Bros are genuine, if obnoxious, Sanders supporters, and how many are right-wing ratf**kers, GOP or irregular?

      After all, anyone can pretend to be anything over Da Intertoobz. 😉


      • Of course you geezers would want Hillary Kissinger to be president so that you can reminisce about that time you sat-in to get better food in the co-ed dining hall…


        • Mr. Rosenberg, you write well for a dead man. :mrgreen:

          OK, since Bart S has not yet answered me, I’ll ask you.

          The two-Senators-for-every-state rule in the Constitution gives disproportionately great representation to the populations of low-population states, which, in turn, tend disproportionately to be “red”.

          In addition, the GOP has gerrymandered the House six ways from Sunday.

          Today’s GOP Representatives and Senators tend to be pulled to the Right even if they’re not wingnuts by nature, because–in their gerrymandered districts or red states–most of them are more likely to lose a primary election to a wingnut challenger than to lose a general election to a Democrat. They are compelled to be intransigent if they want to keep their offices.

          In the face of this situation, how do you propose for Sanders, or Clinton, or any other Democratic President, to pass a social-democratic agenda, or even a rational centrist agenda, through such a Congress?

  15. RD, I have real concerns (as a person who teaches at a University) about making college paid for 100% by the state. We have a bad situation in my state as it is, and I can’t see our governor shoving out any more money whatsoever to make college free here. I also don’t want the next Repub administration (because they are coming, someday if not this time) to tell me what I can and cannot teach because they are funding me. It’s bad enough already. I love that many countries have free college–they have far fewer colleges to make free, and they don’t have the Repubs… Just make the states pay what they agreed to pay for their state colleges and universities, and that would bring costs back to what they were about 25 years ago. In my state, college funding was the first thing to go, hence tuition shot up, as did foreign student recruitment (they pay so much more).

    • There are many intervals between crippling debt upon graduation and totally free.
      If we could do it during the 70s, I see no reason why we can’t do it now.

      • Well, guess how much it cost to go to a school in the university system of CA in the 60’s? Hint: might as well have been free…

        WTF is wrong with you people? You sound like a bunch of god damned gops. Education should be free for grades k-12 and undergraduate. How do you build a compelling argument otherwise? I dunno… because… Hillary has a cootchie?

        • All right, Bart.

          How would President Sanders be able to pass a social-democratic agenda in the face of an intransigent and semi-permanent GOP majority in Congress–thanks to gerrymandering in the House and the two-Senators-for-every-state rule in the Constitution, which gives small-population states, which tend disproportionately to be “red”, disproportionately great power in the Senate?

  16. “Let them eat cake”. That is so descriptive of Hillary ‘ stance on the “A”CA. And until that changes, she will never get my vote. Never was a single issue voter before, but fixing healthcare is a matter of ensuring that I have a future. And right now she doesn’t want to do that. Pure self-serving evil, IMHO.

    • So eliminating the ACA is what you want to do? The GOP will go along with that but what then? Single payer is not going to pass. I just wish Bernie and his supporters could be honest and say they want to eliminate the ACA. And one of Bernie’s plans for single payer has the states managing it. As you saw with the Medicaid expansion that didn’t work out so well. Vermont couldn’t even pass it because the taxes were too high and it does nothing to control costs. The doctors still get to charge high fees along with the hospitals and everybody else. I’m of the mind that the whole medical industrial complex is going to have to collapse under its own weight before anything like single payer is possible.

      • For me, personally, dismantling most of the ACA is best (keep Medicaid expansion, give subsidies, but ditch the Exchanges, eliminate the bloated requirements of insurance plans and give people more choices about what is covered. Enact a federally funded high risk pool.). I haven’t had insurance since ACA enactment. I’m officially an Obamacare loser. The middle class on the individual market who are outside or just inside subsidy range are losers. It makes no sense for us to have insurance. We simply can’t afford it. I am exempt from the mandate because my decent plan was cancelled. When my exemption ends in 2018, I’ll pay the penalty. Available plans are crap. Narrow networks, high premiums, catastrophic deductibles. It makes more sense for me to save toward health CARE, not blow my money on insurance companies.

        But what I want is for a system where the cost of the high risk pool (people who can’t work, so carry individual insurance, etc.) isn’t borne on the middle class on the individual market. We can’t afford it. Fix that by distributing the costs to employer plans or something and maybe I’ll come back into the fold. But Hillary’s plan of increasing the mandate tax, while doing hardly anything additionally to help us afford to buy this unsustainable product is a non starter for me.

        The Vermont system failed because it was a state system not enacted via a payroll tax. Any Medicare for all system would have to be national.

        The ACA is going to ensure that the system collapses sooner rather than later. It’s a horrifying flawed law. I’m sure you aren’t one of the losers in it because you don’t feel desperate like I do. You are emotional about your candidate, but I’m emotional about my life and my health. Implying that I’m a bad person because I want to protect myself is, frankly insulting.

        I’m not an anybody supporter, Bernie or otherwise. But yes, this time I’m anti-Hillary. If she’s elected there will be no national debate on a topic and that hurts me directly, greatly. I am honestly terrified for my future, as I said. Have a little compassion for something other than candidate interests, please.

        • The ACA could literally kills me because it means I can’t have insurance. If you can’t see why that makes me hate the law and why the law is unrecoverable flawed, then I’m not sure what will.

          Other than Medicaid expansion, all it did was shift the uninsured group to the middle class.

          • The ACA was sponsored by President Obama, and passed with the votes of almost every Democrat in the House and Senate. So they are also “pure self-serving evil?” Or is it just Hillary Clinton who is given that description by you? Hillary of course had nothing to do with the ACA, as she was Secretary of State.

            Hillary was always for single-payer, as almost everyone knows. I do well remember all those insurance company paid ads with that charning little couple who just had some concerns about having their “choice” takein away. So the plan failed, and it was an embarrassment for her and her husband; and many people, including Democrats, didn’t care much either way, or blamed them for trying to go too far. I wonder if you thought she was evil back then. And I’m sure you supported her in 2008, when it was obvious that she would go further in trying to get closer to single-payer than Obama would. And now ACA is law, and the Supreme Court has held it valid; and HIllary is “pure evil” for supporting it and wanting to modify it rather than throw out the law and see if we can get a single-payer plan through the Republican Congress,even though we got nowhere trying to get it through the Democratic Congress in 1993. I can accept and understand you supporting Sanders or anyone else; but this “pure, self-serving evil” is redolent of another agenda.

          • William, Abcd is apparently suffering desperate need. You can’t reasonably expect someone in that situation to be an ivory-tower ever-so-reasonable fuddy-duddy moderate.

            I don’t agree with Abcd about Hillary, but I can’t blame Abcd.

            When an Establishment fails to answer people’s survival needs, they will look outside the Establishment. That’s how both Communism and Fascism got off the ground for a while. People dying of thirst will drink from a filthy drainage ditch if no clean water is available.

            A smart Establishment will make sure no one gets that thirsty, but we haven’t had a smart Establishment in this country since the 1970s, at latest. 😦

        • The Medicaid expansion didn’t work for most of the country but you want to continue that? Do you realize that about 71% of the country would be considered “losers” under Bernie’s plan? You’re never going to have anything where the people are not going to carry the people with health problems as long as insurance exists unless you are willing to deny those people insurance. And under the “high risk plans” that were previously offered like you are talking about no one could afford them.

          Yes, the Vermont system was going to be a payroll tax. It would have been taken out the same way state taxes currently are taken out of your paycheck. The problem was that it was going to take 20% of people’s paycheck. The larger problem is even single payer at least so far has done nothing with regards to doctor’s expenses, hospital expenses or lab expenses.

          I am not “emotional”. You have exposed yourself as a Republican as that is their stupid claim about all Hillary supporters. I have hit you with the facts and then you start talking nonsense.

          We all know that Republicans are pushing Bernie and fluffing Bernie because they think he’s easier to beat. I’m glad to see you’ve just reinforced that.

          • The missing piece is cost control. You can’t have a fair universal system without it. With it, any number of healthcare schemes are possible.
            I don’t have a problem carrying sick people. Other countries manage to do it. What I have a problem with is that only some of the population has to carry the poor and sick. If you get benefits thru your workplace, you don’t feel it nearly as much than if you are a contractor or a worker making only slightly too much money. That’s not fair and sets up two classes of workers. It’s discriminatory. If there were ever a good reason to overturn the ACA and start over, that would be it.

          • Btw, some people are already paying 20% of their income for exchange policies. The premiums and deductibles are way more than they can afford and make their policies difficult to justify. That’s because, repeat after me, THERE ARE NO COST CONTROLS!!!

          • Well, the problem is single payer is not going to bring on any cost controls either as Bernie is proposing it. If we get rid of the ACA then there’s nothing to replace it. Eventually it is going to be revisited and is going to have to be revisited. However nobody is in the mood to do it now and I can’t blame them.

            Hillary wants to lower the deductibles so if that’s a problem she’s going to work on that.

            Yes, some people do pay 20% but what about people that do not pay the 20% of their income? How are you going to convince them to pay more and get the same or even less for their money?

          • I feel like you know what the problems are and what these politicians need to do but you don’t think THEY know it.
            As for making people pay 20% or more of their incomes, we already ask them to do that and some people just can’t. Do they go without. It’s no use lecturing people about personal responsibility if they can’t pay it no matter how much you fine or threaten them.
            I went without insurance for a year and a half. All I could find for work was part time and at unreliable hours. I have a spreadsheet showing the hundreds of jobs I applied to for which I was overqualified and couldn’t get an interview no matter how hard I tried. If you haven’t been there, you have absolutely no idea how awful that is. You have crazy ass republicans screaming at you for being a deadbeat and smug “Democrats” lecturing you about people with pre-existing conditions and responsibility.
            If these insensitive assholes really want people to buy ACA policies at unfair prices with very little coverage, they should have been more forceful with their politicians about solving the long term unemployment problem and declining wages.
            In some cases, it’s a choice between paying for the policy, going without or eating.
            In France, everyone is covered. Even the poor or the temporarily unlucky.
            I smell a whiff of Tea Party around you. If you haven’t been through the series of unfortunate events that I have in the last four years, you have no idea how little social safety net is left. If you don’t have to work, you’re lucky. But stop with the judgmental presuppositions about who it is you think don’t deserve healthcare. Everyone deserves it. They’re people. They all deserve your respect.

          • What RD said. In some ways, William and G6D don’t seem to get it.

            Until a majority, or at least a critical mass, of us peasants start seeing ourselves as peasants, rather than as future millionaires who have been temporarily embarrassed by that naughty Dame Fortune, our politics aren’t going to change very much.

  17. Off-topic but important:

    Justice Scalia has died.


    • Thank you, IBW. I hadn’t heard. Wow. I’m glad it happened now…

      And thank you, RD, for this site. It was a lifesaver/sense of reality saver in 2008, and it is the only place I can go now where I can express what I believe.

  18. Off topic: Happy Valentine’s Day! :mrgreen:

  19. Well, frack. I apparently don’t know how to post a link to a pic rather than the pic itself on WordPress. 😳 😛

    • Or rather, I don’t know how to do it if the image is on Imgur rather than Postimage.

  20. “Never, ever” is a long time to wait.

    • HRC is hardly perfect, but she’s the best we will be able to manage for now.

      We won’t get social democracy in this country unless and until a critical mass of us peasants decide that we are indeed peasants, rather than “temporarily embarrassed millionaires”, and decide the only path to prosperity for us is redistribution.

      • HRC is hardly perfect, but she’s the best we will be able to manage for now.

        Certainly true

  21. Michelle’s husband is a Federal Prosecutor who
    openly supports tough on crime policies.
    The hatred for Hillary is beyond.
    Olberman, Kremlin Eddie, Cenk, Randi Rhodes, etc are doing it again.
    They are going after her and demonizing her.
    I am glad that left wing talk radio has failed. It was no better than the garbage from Rush/Hannity/levin/Savage, etc.

    Hillary is the only one who get things done.
    There will be no marxist revolution, nor should there be one.
    Bernie’s band of psychopaths seem to think we are the verge of such.

    I have other problems with the far left, not Bernie but his supporters.
    Most notable is their denial that a violence problem exists within Islam.

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