Third Party Candidate Debate: Liveblog

October 2012
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RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:00 pm said:

Whoo-hoo! All vpices SHOULD be heard. It is a noble cause

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:01 pm said:

Only Johnson is on my ballot so this debate is going to help me decide if I write in or not.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:02 pm said:

Dang Kansas! They don’t want to give you a left of center choice I guess.
- katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:03 pm said:
  
  Nah, the candidates were slackers. We’ve only got 7 electoral votes and who gives a sh!t about that?
  - RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:05 pm said:
    
    Some states are harder to get on the ballot than others.
    - katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:07 pm said:
      
      Stein had trouble getting electors. They even asked me! And all I ever did was post a question to their website.
  - CB, on October 23, 2012 at 10:39 pm said:
    
    Eliminating the electoral college and going to a straight up popular vote might change that for some of the less populated areas because it wouldn’t be a matter of states in that scenario. I believe the change requires a Constitutional amendment.
    - Seth Warren, on October 23, 2012 at 11:27 pm said:
      
      Eliminating the Electoral College outright does require a constitutional amendment. However, it is left up to each state as to how they apply their electors. This is why the National Popular Vote movement is doable and how Maine and Nebraska are able to split their electoral votes.
    - CB, on October 23, 2012 at 11:29 pm said:
      
      Seth:
      
      True. A lot less trouble than a Constitutional amendment, but not as fixed.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:01 pm said:

3-2-1…

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:04 pm said:

Good opening Statement

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:04 pm said:

Hi, everybody! Tell us where you’re blogging from. I’ll go first: Central New Jersey

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:06 pm said:

Eastern Kansas, here!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:05 pm said:

Ok, she’s no natural speaker but I like what she’s saying.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:06 pm said:

Wow, this is like a real debate.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:07 pm said:

Jill Stein! Damn! If only she weren’t a Green Party nominee

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:08 pm said:

Yay, Rocky! Our first mormon of the night!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:08 pm said:

Yay, Virgil!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:08 pm said:

Yay, Gary!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:10 pm said:

S: Doesn’t enlarge our democracy. So far she hasn’t hit the main argument- it can be gamed by the largest two parties.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:11 pm said:

I do like the implicit concept of a national primary though.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:10 pm said:

I’m not wild about the Party system. Not sure about the top 2 primary issue.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:10 pm said:

S: Rambling. She needs to be more concise. She seems nervous, a bit like Miss South Carolina.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:12 pm said:

A: Yep, Rocky nails it. The two parties will exclude everyone else.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:12 pm said:

(nodding)

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:13 pm said:

A. is a bit more comfortable at this political shtick. As much as people hate politicians, we need people with experience.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:13 pm said:

A. makes a good point about both parties ignoring poverty

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:14 pm said:

I’ve had it with the Democratic party too

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:14 pm said:

Whew! “I’ve had it with the Democratic Party”

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:14 pm said:

G: Good opening remarks.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:15 pm said:

G: “I didn’t vote for the Democrats spending money like crazy”

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:15 pm said:

G: Oh, Gawd, not another state’s rights person.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:17 pm said:

J: “I was a Republican but I wasn’t one of them. No, I wasn’t one of those people. Nope, not me. Ha-ha! See? I’m not a Republican. And I’m pro-choice but states need to make their own decisions, amiright?”

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:18 pm said:

J: “Yeah! Let’s get rid of Medicare! Boooyah!”

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:19 pm said:

I guess he’s not a Medicare for Everyone kinda guy. (sigh)

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:19 pm said:

S: I think she needs to actually win an election. It makes a difference.
Getting arrested does not make you a politician.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:20 pm said:

But I’m not sure being Mayor is that much more experience.
- RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:21 pm said:
  
  Bloomberg was considering running. I’d feel more comfortable with a mayor than a congressman.
  But I think you need to run and win *something* before you run for president.
  - katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:22 pm said:
    
    Agreed. (wow. Bloomberg. I forgot)
    - Notyoursweetie, on October 24, 2012 at 2:41 pm said:
      
      Bloomberg bought his elections at $150 per vote. Why should that count as experience, beats me.
    - RD, on October 24, 2012 at 3:00 pm said:
      
      He still had to run the city. I suspect he knows a little something about how executive governance works and how to direct departments. Even a little bit of experience makes a difference if you have familiarity with how things are run, what an governing executive does, how to prepare budgets, manage emergencies, etc. Experience does help. Going from Mayor to governor or president is simply a matter of scale. It’s also why Hillary was better qualified than Obama. She was in the Governor’s mansion in Arkansas for 8 years and the White House for 8. She worked on projects (healthcare, SCHIP), went on foreign policy tours and met with many state leaders. Her resume made her vastly more experienced.
  - CB, on October 23, 2012 at 9:54 pm said:
    
    Michael Let’s-Change-the-Rules-Everybody-Voted-for Bloomberg? Michael NYC Police Bloomberg? Well, at least you know up front what you’re getting: it would be hard to lie about his record at this point. But I would take him as an extension of the Bush-Obama civil no liberties policies–altho one does wonder how much further that line can be extended before someone gets the idea to just declare a suspension of the Constitution and institution of presidential rulership, in the name of public safety, of course.
    
    I’ve seen Jill Stein described as a terrible public speaker. Too bad so much is laid on appearances, but candidates do have to account for the realities of the political environment.
    - RD, on October 24, 2012 at 3:04 pm said:
      
      Ahem, I’ve seen many presentations in my life and IMHO, the best speakers know their subjects like the back of their hands. They’ve studied it, asked the right questions, done their homework and thought about the big picture. That gives you confidence and practice. We tend to underestimate preparation and chalk up poor presentation to not being a good speaker. But I’ll bet if you asked Stein about medicine, she’d blow your socks off. In fact, her response to the question about the dangers of marijuana shows exactly my point. It was brilliant because she really understands this material.
      What Jill Stein needs is some political seasoning and some policy experience. Then she will be a true competitor and her speaking skills will be amazing.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:20 pm said:

A: The party duopoly is strangling democracy. Well, at least his argument makes sense.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:21 pm said:

Dang, I missed Goode’s rebuttal

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:23 pm said:

J: NASCAR jackets?
He’s right about more authoritarianism. Anti-drone. check.
But then he ruins it with the deficit hawkery
Dang

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:23 pm said:

NO, NO, NO! You are never supposed to yield to your opponent, Jill.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:24 pm said:

This drug thing hits home tonight. Today’s funeral was due to a drug related death.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:24 pm said:

That’s so sad for someone so young.
- katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 pm said:
  
  We need something besides prison and death to handle the problem.
  - Teresa, on October 25, 2012 at 6:26 am said:
    
    We have lots of other things besides prison and death. Unfortunately they don’t often work. Prison is often that last gasp “bottom” someone has to fall to before death is the only thing left. People who end up in prison have probably gone to rehab many times. This idea that we just lock people up instead of giving them the chance to get help is a myth. The problem is the drugs and the addicts, not the war on drugs IMO. My opinion is based on years of intimate knowledge with this topic.
    I did not see this debate. Wish I had but the discussion about drugs probably would have pissed me off. I can’t take the Green party or the Libertarians seriously on this topic. = (
    - RD, on October 25, 2012 at 7:05 am said:
      
      I disagree that we don’t just throw the book at people before we help them. My cousin is a case in point. What the system did to him was awful. He eventually committed suicide because the justice system trapped him into a situation that was impossible to climb out of. He had a mountain of legal bills, jail, parole, no job, was forced out of his home and was on a waiting list for rehab. Please don’t tell me that we’re too nice to people with addiction problems. It’s simply not true.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:24 pm said:

Opening statement. Pay attention, Jill.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:25 pm said:

Good points, Jill. “A choice not bought and paid for by Wall Street”

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:26 pm said:

NO, NO, NO, Jill! You were on a roll, just keep on talking over the moderator. Seriously

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:27 pm said:

Loving Rocky.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:28 pm said:

Rocky: Good points on income inequality. Good points on poverty.
He links Bush with Obama, unilateral presidency, the NDAA.
Damn, he only has two minutes.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:29 pm said:

And teaches everyone how to finish a sentence when necessary

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:30 pm said:

Virgil: He can count like Obama and Romney!
Sounds like another deficit hawk.
Anti-immigrant.
Anti-superpac.
Term limits.

Um, not sure this is working for me. Something’s missing

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:31 pm said:

Gary: Sounds like he’s throwing stuff out to see what sticks
Most of this stuff is good but I don’t see a worldview that wants to alleviate income inequality.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:32 pm said:

J: Oh, PLEASE, Gary. You clearly have no idea how to get us out of a depression. Go back to the Republican party, Gary

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:33 pm said:

A: War on drugs is waste of money. I agree. Abusers need rehabilitation not mandatory sentencing.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:35 pm said:

A: We jail too many people for drug abuse. It does seem a little bit like an overreaction

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:36 pm said:

G: I want a balanced budget but I want to throw the book at pot smokers. $12 billion is not insignificant.
Ok, let’s see here. No pot and no contraception. Okay.
Moving right along

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:37 pm said:

I am learning so much! I can’t vote for Johnson after this.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:37 pm said:

J: Legalize marijuana now! Whoo-hoo! Fire up!
(No, Brooke, no pot for you.)

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:38 pm said:

True, pot is not addicting. No worse than alcohol.
BUT HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS SHOULD NOT SMOKE IT, IF THERE ARE ANY HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WATCHING.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:39 pm said:

S: She makes a very good point. It’s not dangerous because it’s dangerous. it’s dangerous because it is illegal.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:40 pm said:

BUT HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS SHOULD STILL NOT SMOKE IT. IN CASE THERE ARE ANY HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS OUT THERE.
HINT, HINT.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:40 pm said:

Can you catch a buzz from smoking hemp?

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:41 pm said:

Legalize industrial hemp now!
Yeah, why is hemp illegal? When was the last time you smoked a rope?

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:42 pm said:

I like this debate more than the other ones but I think we’re spending too much time on drugs

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:43 pm said:

Yeah, it’s the MidEast of the 3rd parties.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:42 pm said:

Well, meth is bad for you, gary. Cocaine is bad too.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:43 pm said:

G: No fun at a party

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:43 pm said:

Virgil Goode is my name and I road on the Danville Train…

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:45 pm said:

(giggle)

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:44 pm said:

G: I want to balance the budget. But we shouldn’t be policemen of the world

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:46 pm said:

J: Bankrupt blah blah blah, deficit reduction blah blah blah, budget balancing blah blah blah. But unlike the Republicans, and I am not a Republican, I want to cut back on the military. And you know libertarians don’t want to spend money on other people.
Even soldiers.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:47 pm said:

S: Virgil is fucking nuts.
Ooo, foresight on the drone issue.
YES! A Moratorium on Drones!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:47 pm said:

Damn, if only she weren’t an untested politician running as a Green.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:48 pm said:

I think Stein and Anderson should run on the same ticket.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:49 pm said:

It’d be nice.
- RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:50 pm said:
  
  I think she’s going to ask him out for coffee after the debate

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:49 pm said:

A: I think he’s having a good night. He’s got a comprehensive worldview. The problem is a military industrial complex that is corrupt.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:50 pm said:

It’s pretty clear that voting for Johnson would be an even bigger mistake than voting for Romney.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:50 pm said:

A: We’re acting like war criminals. What’s up with that??

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:51 pm said:

G: Again, this is very specific and piecemeal.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:52 pm said:

J: I was opposed to going into Iraq.
And so was I.
Ok, so far, Gary and I see eye to eye on Iraq and Afghanistan

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:52 pm said:

Gary, those Iranian protestors didn’t show up in support of the US. They were protesting their rigged election.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:53 pm said:

Brooke better not still be in college in 2030 unless she’s a tenured professor.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:55 pm said:

G: Um, that’s a BAD strategy. It only means that the rich will go to college. That’s how it was in the 50’s and why my parents didn’t got to college.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:55 pm said:

S: Well, I don’t know about FREE college but affordable would be nice.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:55 pm said:

What does the government guarantee with the student loans? That they won’t let those loans be included in bankruptcies?

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:55 pm said:

In France, tuition is about the same as the student activities fee here.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:57 pm said:

I disagree that everyone should go to college. If everyone went to college, the curriculum would need to be diluted and we don’t want that
We need plumbers and electricians and accountants and hairdressers

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:58 pm said:

Maybe those schools could participate in the “free program” ? When I was going to the beauty school for my hair they said the schools cost 8-15 thousand dollars!!!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:57 pm said:

A: Technical education! Yes, totally agree. Good auto mechanics are worth their weight in gold

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:58 pm said:

Student debt is non-dischargeable. Unreal! It could be lifetime indentured service to the lenders.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 9:59 pm said:

I know! So what do they mean by “subsidized” and “guaranteed”?
CB, on October 23, 2012 at 10:40 pm said:

And in some cases to their estates and heirs.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 9:59 pm said:

G: We’re not going to like Virgil.
I went to school courtesy of Pell Grants and loans. And I’ve paid every cent of that back plus was able to pay my taxes.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:00 pm said:

J: Yes, let’s just ignore the next cancer researcher because he/she can’t afford to go to school
YOU and ME

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:01 pm said:

A: We can’t not afford not to educate.
Massive spending cuts not good during a little depression.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:02 pm said:

S: I agree with Rocky. I am totally asking him out later.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:02 pm said:

S: Makes good point about indentured servitude.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:02 pm said:

OMG! This is the debate everyone should be watching!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:03 pm said:

S: NDAA 1021 is an outrage. It’s a betrayal of our civil liberties.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:03 pm said:

Why is this not a major debate??

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:05 pm said:

I don’t know — it’s wonderful! Great questions. Honest answers. Mutual (doesn’t seem fake) respect. And it’s moving along.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:04 pm said:

S: End the assassinations. End the abuse of FISA.
Repeal the patriot act.
But you need to say why, Jill.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:05 pm said:

S: Good Ben Franklin quote

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:06 pm said:

A: The system of justice can provide for everyone. It wasn’t broken before we broke it.
Obama asked for indefinite detention. Habeas corpus.
Jeez, it’s true. It’s a very bad situation but people are not being told how bad it is.
Think about what happened to OWS

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:07 pm said:

(nodding)

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:07 pm said:

Yes, Obama screwed us after he got the nomination.
(is he going to take Jill up on the coffee and dessert?)

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:08 pm said:

Enquiring minds…..
- RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:13 pm said:
  
  Dessert, maybe a nitecap…a long conversation about MMT…

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:08 pm said:

J: He would veto NDAA. But otherwise acts like a wild and crazy guy who is so Hot!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:08 pm said:

NASCAR jackets and Liberty Torches!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 pm said:

Oh, I see. Gary Johnson is the Ron Paul candidate

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 pm said:

There’s not enough on the economy

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:09 pm said:

Is this a mensa question?

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:10 pm said:

YES!!! New Equal Rights Amendment!
This is the correct answer

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm said:

Why isn’t Anderson the mainstream candidate? Why isn’t Obama talking like Anderson??
And Stein?

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:11 pm said:

G: Term limits is more important than equality. Naturally.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:14 pm said:

J: Term limits. ???
Where is this term limit thing coming from?
And yeah! I got re-elected! So, cool for everyone else to be term limited but not for me

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:15 pm said:

S: Money is not speech and corporations are not people. Also a pretty good answer but I like the ERA answer a little bit better.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:16 pm said:

If I was messing with elections, I would abolish the electoral college & establish a national primary (not just Dems & Reps but every possible party — all on one day) . Something like that. I don’t give a s**t about term limits.

CB, on October 23, 2012 at 10:43 pm said:

I do. Unlimited incumbency is like income inequality: the longer you’re in office, the more you can tilt the advantage to yourself.
- katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:46 pm said:
  
  I know, but if we tried other electoral reforms the term limits might not be necessary. I don’t really like lame duck terms…..
  - CB, on October 23, 2012 at 11:13 pm said:
    
    Lame duck terms can produce startlingly good results: Ted Kaufman and Roland Burris, who voted as they thought right. There’s a lot of freedom in not caring about campaign war chests.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:16 pm said:

S: Ok, she’s making a pretty good case about the Citizens United case. How can we merge that with Rocky’s new ERA?

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:17 pm said:

G: Closing statement.
Even Goode has a right to be heard even if he makes no damn sense.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:17 pm said:

It’s so interesting here people do a debate that isn’t weirdly planned.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:18 pm said:

Except for the abuse of the H1B visa system. But that’s only part of the problem

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:18 pm said:

G: also good point on super pacs

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:20 pm said:

J: I’m really good. i have a CV. I’m an entrepreneur. I employed lots of people (but I probably didn’t pay bennies)
I veto a lot! There are a lot of bills that I didn’t pass even though my state’s legislators kept sending them to me. I vetoed to set a record.
No, actually, Gary, we want them to get green cards. We DON’T want to give more work visas. That will kill wages for sure.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:22 pm said:

He totally convinced me not to vote for him. And I was || that close!
- RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:26 pm said:
  
  Dang! Can you write a name in? Stein and Anderson look like good write ins

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:21 pm said:

J: Good point about wasting your vote on someone you don’t believe in

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:22 pm said:

S: She relaxed throughout the debate but she’s still got to work on her delievery.
Good point about voting vs not voting.
She is making an appeal to her younger demographic.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:23 pm said:

Again, I’d rather have affordable education, not free education. We need to regulate tuitions like the airlines.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:24 pm said:

A: Makes a good point about plutocracy. The anti-plutocrat candidate wasn’t represented at the two party debates.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:24 pm said:

I really like both Anderson and Stein. I guess I’ll have to write one in.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:25 pm said:

A: makes good point about big money going into the pockets of the major party candidatate.
I like his WPA program to put people back to work.
Good ending.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:25 pm said:

Larry King did a WONDERFUL job! Why were the other debates such a mess?

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:26 pm said:

Larry goes into interview mode with Christina.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:27 pm said:

I like this Christina person.

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:28 pm said:

Actually, Larry was one of the best debate moderators we’ve had. He kept good control on time and was a good enforcer. Not bad for a guy who is prematurely decomposing before our very eyes.

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:28 pm said:

He really did. Everything was wonderful!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:28 pm said:

Hey, Katiebird, do you want to write a post debate summary?

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:30 pm said:

I’m fading fast….. I loved it but, I’m pooped!

RD, on October 23, 2012 at 10:29 pm said:

You know, I could see a second debate for third party candidates.
Next Wednesday! Yeah!

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:31 pm said:

!! And hopefully, I’ll actually be awake!!
Mr. Mike, on October 23, 2012 at 10:55 pm said:

I’m sure there will be a bi-partisan effort to make sure that doesn’t happen.

Not Your Sweetie, on October 23, 2012 at 10:43 pm said:

What website to we have to go to vote for two candidates for the next debate?

katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:54 pm said:

Here: Second 2012 Presidential Debate October 30 in Washington, DC
- katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 10:57 pm said:
  
  And Cast Vote here
  - RD, on October 23, 2012 at 11:10 pm said:
    
    Wow, you really are tired. That has no link. 😉
    - katiebird, on October 23, 2012 at 11:17 pm said:
      
      (snore) … I fixed it. (crash)
- Not Your Sweetie, on October 24, 2012 at 8:30 am said:
  
  http://freeandequal.org/vote/

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