• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on They ran through the bushes wh…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on They ran through the bushes wh…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on They ran through the bushes wh…
    william on Avenatti and Farrow
    riverdaughter on Avenatti and Farrow
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on They ran through the bushes wh…
    william on Avenatti and Farrow
    Ga6thDem on They ran through the bushes wh…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on They ran through the bushes wh…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on They ran through the bushes wh…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on They ran through the bushes wh…
    Niles on They ran through the bushes wh…
    pm317 on They ran through the bushes wh…
    pm317 on They ran through the bushes wh…
    pm317 on They ran through the bushes wh…
  • Categories

  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

    October 2012
    S M T W T F S
    « Sep   Nov »
  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

    • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.
  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Loving-Kindness Isn’t About Morality
      It is said that once upon a time, Siddhartha Gautama, before he was the Buddha, was sitting on the ground and was overwhelmed by a great feeling of sweetness towards all that lived, from the bug he saw on the ground, to the grass, and trees, to all the people, and including himself, without any […]
  • Top Posts

  • Advertisements

The Vice Presidential Debate: Loose Lips vs Howard Roark

Let’s just hope that Ryan’s concluding statement doesn’t go on for 20 pages.

I’m looking forward to this debate.  You can  watch it here on C-span if you’ve cut the cord like I have. Joe Biden’s not a bad guy. If he ever had a chance, he might even be able to rise to greatness. You never know. But what’s fascinating about Biden is his inability to keep a secret. That quirk of his personality could make this an interesting debate.

Paul Ryan just reminds me of one of the business majors in college who I never wanted to go out with. I suspect I would be too weird for him anyway and he would bore me to tears. To Ryan, it’s all about money: acquiring it, controlling it and keeping everyone’s hands off of his stack. Conservatives like Ryan use moral arguments in order to defend some very immoral behavior of the money guys. For the record, it is immoral to lie to 20 somethings in the 80s about prepaying their social security benefits and then reneg on any social contracts in 2012 because it means that some rich people have to give up the tax cuts they’ve benefitted from while the government borrowed against our trust fund. That’s called fraud and theft and it’s immoral. It doesn’t matter how the recipients intend to use their money. They worked for it, they paid for it, they deserve it. It’s not an “entitlement”. It’s a social insurance policy. Don’t let Ryan tell you anything differently.

So, without further moralizing, here is the first live blog thread. See how many times Ryan says “free market” and “market forces”. See Biden take on foreign policy with mastery and let’s count how many times he says “unemployment”. (my guess is none)

Have at it!


141 Responses

  1. I see this is a sit down debate. Damn! Now we won’t be able to see the pumps they’re wearing.

  2. Ooo, a woman with a real face. I like.

  3. They’re evenly matched in height, not that it matters in a sit down debate.

  4. First up,how did we fu in Libya?

  5. Ahhhh, I see how Biden is going to avoid upstaging Obama. He’s going to take the “I don’t make the decisions, he does. I just work here” tactic.

  6. Not sure this is a good idea. It looks like Biden is doing doing Obama’s fighting.

  7. Good question! Will Congress give the state department a marine detachment, Paul?

  8. Gratuitous pandering to the veterans.

  9. Biden gives his Cheshire cat smile. Foreign policy is his thing.

  10. Ooo, here comes Joe. Get him, joe!

  11. Biden is carrying Obama’s water again. I think this is a bad strategy.

    • As long as Biden made very clear that he was carrying Obama’s water as a matter of loyal duty, many people may not hold that against him. All kinds of people have to carry water for their inferior bosses as a matter of job-keeping duty. People may sympathise as long as Biden made it plausibly-deniably clear that he was doing it out of job-duty.

  12. I like the moderator. She asks good questions.

  13. Biden looks alert and engaged. Paul Ryan is well rehearsed. He is hitting all the talking points.

  14. Martha is keeping them on task. She’s well prepared.

  15. Ahhh, Ryan is going to make this a referendum on Obama. Biden should make a case for himself.

  16. Ryan doesn’t have biden’s “gravitas”. ht Colbert

  17. Oooo, do tell, joe. What can we do to the Iranians?

  18. There’s that smile again.

  19. Again, Martha’s doing great. I like the interview style. She’s not letting anyone off the hook. Ryan looks young and naive.

  20. Ryan is completely unhorsed. Biden is too good at this stuff.

  21. Wow — they’re all right at the same table. I like it that Biden says Iran is THAT all close to having a bomb.

  22. Funny, Obama gets a lot of credit for Hillary’s work. All’s right with the world.

  23. Biden’s grin is creepy.

  24. Biden goes on the attack.

  25. It *sounds* good. If only Obama hadn’t protected wall street in the past four years.

  26. When Ryan does that He-he thing, it reminds me of beevis and butthead

  27. Young and earnest vs. DC-teat-sucker. 😦

  28. Oh, small business are job creators now. I thought it was the super rich.

  29. Ryan attempts to humanize mitt. I don’t doubt that he’s charitable. The problem is that Americans should never have to rely n charity.

  30. I forgot that Biden has a history.

  31. Oh, man, Biden is defending Obama’s home retention policies? They are non-existent.

  32. Martha’s kicking ass. She makes them toe the line.

  33. Um, can we vote for Biden?

  34. No, seriously. Can we vote for Biden?

  35. Ok, here comes Ryan’s baby.

  36. Social security is not going bankrupt.

  37. Paul Ryan has no solution for that upcoming 25% shortfall except benefit cuts.

  38. As a future senior citizen, I’d be totally happy with a Tricare system for Medicare.

  39. Privatization is NOT the only problem.

  40. Biden uses the smile to shrink Ryan. It’s very effective. I love hiden’s mockery.

    • It’s VERY worrying that that Biden isn’t reminding people that our contribution to Social Security was raised. OK. He’s doing it.

  41. Martha asks a very good question about how poor seniors afford the voucher program. Ryan falls ,back on the “other people agree with me

  42. Biden dominates the debate.

  43. Biden avoids the age question. I don’t like that.

  44. I don’t like the policy I’m hearing underneath Biden’s rhetoric.

  45. Biden: “You saw how that worked” OMG. Good.

  46. Ok, Biden is talking sense again.

  47. Biden is selling it to the people.

  48. Biden is winning this one hands down. Can we elect Biden?

  49. This is a VERY intimate setting.

  50. Can we just dispense with the tax cuts?

  51. Biden is making good sensible arguments. He’s not referencing Obama’s policies, which I think is good.

  52. Hey, Paul! Let’s end the wars.

  53. Ryan is just not doing it for me. Martha holding Ryan to specifics. God, I love her.

  54. Biden using mockery well. Looking for an opportunity to rip Ryan to shreds.

  55. Mortgage deduction is a big deal.

  56. Let the bush tax cuts expire. It sounds so reasonable.

  57. Poor Biden. Like Clinton, he’s talking about an Adminstration that doesn’t exist.

  58. Biden Trying to get Ryan to explain. It sounds like Ryan is going to cut mortgage deduction.

  59. Talking military now. Why not leave now?

  60. Biden showing real emotion makes Ryan look like a plastic doll, reading a bunch of pre-written speeches. Biden is aggressive; Ryan has a superior smile. It’s a bit like watching an eldest son try to pretend he’s his own father.

  61. Ryan, they want to stay. Biden says we’re leaving. We’ll see.

  62. “green on blue” equals Afghan forces attacking Americans.

  63. Why are we still there?

    • Obama set the departure date at 2014 to extort voters to re-elect him. The threat is that a Repuglan will keep us there AFter 2014 and only Obama will remove our forces by 2014, but he can’t do that if he isn’t re-elected so we have to re-elect him to save our soldiers. Moral blackmail and extortion by Obama.

  64. I don’t know why we don’t just pack up and leave this week.

  65. If we’re leaving, why are we still there?

  66. Just a little Pentagon talk from Biden, he does give a glimpse behind the curtain.

  67. I don’t think there is any good solution here. This was screwed up deliberately by the bushies.

  68. My brother is still in afghanistan.

  69. I don’t think either one is winning this. One wants more troops. The other doesn’t know what to do with the ones we have.

    • Neither are recognizing the troops and their families, they are talking about them as if they are a portion of a pie chart.

  70. “fighting season” , It’s a season?

    • I know, right? Its almost like breaking out your spring camouflage. Can’t you just see them strutting down the runway? I’m too sexy for my beard…

  71. Ohhh, I see. The problem with Syria is a matter of semantics, says Ryan.

  72. Sly and clever use of Hillary by Ryan. Wonder whyit took him so long?

  73. Taking a break.

  74. How does this contempt thing of Biden’s come across to people?

  75. ‘What’s your criteria for intervention?’ Love her. (Not that he answers…)

  76. Martha gets to women and abortion.

  77. Catholicism? Abortion? All ears.

  78. ‘No humanitarian.’ Whoa. That’s a big one.

  79. Ryan tries to rationalize his sexism.

  80. Like no one else on the planet names their embryo Bean.

  81. Not everyone has the same reaction to that heartbeat thing, Paul.

  82. Biden trying to squirm out of this.

  83. Biden scores! This was not a hard question.

  84. Ryan basically just said religious liberty is more important than any other form of liberty.

  85. Can we vote for Biden now?

  86. Martha asks really good questions.

  87. Biden somewhat wins on this one, “my beliefs” which “I refuse to impose on others”. Although he’s OK with Catholic hospitals denying certain women’s health care… why are there Catholic hospitals (which receive funds from the government ) anyway?

  88. Martha Radditz for president!

  89. Biden kicked ass.
    I can haz Presnt Bidn now?

  90. Biden win this debate hands down. Unfortunately, he’s not running for the top spot.

  91. Would President Biden have put Social Security on the table?

  92. Why do I see count chocula when I look at Ryan?

  93. Ryan sounds like he’s all over the map.

  94. Damn, if we could only take Obama out of the picture…

  95. Biden looks weary, now. For a while he was full of righteous indignation, frustration with being lied to, and desperation to be heard. At the end, he seems sad and full of appropriate gravitas. Great ending in tone.

  96. I think they both held their own. That each of them spoke to the people they were trying to reach.

    What I don’t know is if it can matter. Obama just doesn’t care about that stuff as much as Biden.

  97. I thought this was a much more sbstantial debate than th epresidential candidates. However, I’m still votng for either Rocky or Jill. I watched te last debate online through democracy now. They had Jill and Rocky responding to every question. I liked tat becase I have no interest in listenig to obama or romney.

    • I agree. This will not change my voting strategy. If it were Biden at the top of the ticket, I might give the Democrats a chance. But Obama is the problem and he’s still on top.

  98. Mark Shields (columnist) just made a mistake and called Biden “President Biden…I mean, Vice-President Biden” on PBS.

  99. At least Ryan didn’t wink at Biden. Palin pretty much unhinged him in ’08.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: