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Clarification for Atrios

Atrios is having a facepalm moment over the possibility that, oh, hell, I don’t know. Part of it has to do with the Grand Bargain that the Obama administration and the Democrats are going to strike after Obama is re-elected (a bit premature but there you go. Never let it be said that it isn’t easy to stampede liberals to do exactly what the authoritarians who have taken over the party tell them to do).

And somehow this is tied up with abortion. As in, the idiots who took over the party thought they could work with the anti-choicers. From Atrios’s post:

As stupid liberal bloggers have tried to explain for years, the anti-choice movement (not all anti-choicers, but the movement) is anti-female autonomy, anti-unapproved by them sex, and, yes, anti-sex without consequences, otherwise known as anti-contraception.

Boy us stupid liberal bloggers were sure crazy for suggesting that! Almost as dumb as when we said the Iraq war was a dumb idea! Stupid liberal bloggers. So stupid.

As a liberal blogger who has family members who are squarely in the anti-choice, pro-illegal abortion, pro-motherhood whether you like it or not camp, who are more incensed at the thought of women having unapproved sexytime than the deaths of thousands of servicemen in a pointless war after I told them over and over again that there were no WMDs in the desert, I have probably a better fix on this than Atrios does.

So, here it is: I have been hearing over and over again for the past couple of weeks that Hillary Clinton was exactly like these pro-illegal abortion nutcases. She was trying to make abortion look icky and stuff and placating the pro-bloody dead woman on the floor contingent. Let me tell you something. There is NO talking to that contingent. There is no common ground on abortion. None. Whatsoever. And having spent some time in Arkansas, you can bet your sweet ass that Hillary Clinton already knew this. That is why she focussed her attention on prevention. I don’t understand why it is that lefties don’t get this but I am going to assume that they have never had to argue with a person who still thinks that Noah’s Ark is in the mountains of Turkey and insists that the principle of natural selection that you’ve built your whole career around is a lie.

Mind you, these are not stupid people. They are just so indoctrinated in religion past the point of reason and sanity that there is no talking to them. The best you are ever going to get is preventative measures. That’s not capitulation to the supposed disgusting nature of abortion. That’s just reality. There is absolutely no talking to fundamentalists on this issue. Don’t even try. To ever get them to change their mind, you would have to deprogram them over a couple of weeks and never let them near a television set or a church again. Short of that, you have to vote every one of their representatives, including the ones who run as Democrats, out of office.

Now, you might say they were always after contraception but having lived with these people for many decades and knowing how they think, I can tell you for absolute certainty that the case against contraception was not widespread among fundies until the last couple of years. It was only a small minority of them who were anti-contraception until very recently. In fact, I noticed a change in my own bellwhether fundies right about the time the Duggars started appearing on TLC. Before the Duggars, if you had asked my relative fundies what they thought about contraception, they would have told you that a.) only married people can have sex b.) whatever married people decide to do was up to them and c.) if unmarried people are going to FORNICATE, they should do everything they can to not get pregnant. You might not have liked this very much (I certainly don’t), but it wasn’t about to impinge on anyone’s right to get birth control. That’s what Hillary was working with and that was as much common ground as you’re going to get. Hillary never has and never was trying to cater to the anti-abortion nuts because they are unreachable. The only thing you can do is appeal to the teeny tiny strip of humanity they have left when it comes to contraception.

The anti-contraception meme has spread quickly in the past couple of years. And now it looks like all the fundies wanted it from the very beginning. This is not true. What we are seeing here is the very swift and effective spread of a new authoritarian identity factor. The Duggars are held up as the ideal Christian family. But just because this very vocal minority is anti-female sexytime, doesn’t mean that their point of view is so irresistible that we must be crushed by it. We’re not all locked up in a mall waiting for the zombie horde to surround us and eat our brains. For that to happen, we have to be left almost completely defenseless. And that, my friends, is what the Democrats have decided to do.

What was needed when this started to spread was a very quick and forceful push back. That is not what we got. Instead, we got pandering, which is where I think the Grand Bargaining comes in on every important issue with the Democrats. This doesn’t mean the immovable objects that are the right wing nutcases have to yield at all. It’s quite to their benefit to never give in. But Democrats started to kiss up to them anyway. Now, the Republicans are inserting wedge issues between the Democrats weak coalition partners because they know that the Democrats refuse to stand for anything. Well, what did you expect? Barack Obama showed his true colors all during 2008 when it came to women’s issues. Far from being a feminist, he’s probably the worst misogynist we have because his bias flew under the radar. I guess everyone assumed that because he was african american he would have some kind of natural empathy for underrepresented groups. I have no idea where people got that idea because there was no evidence of that as far as I could see. His record was silent on the matter but his actions were definitely screaming loud and clear. Now, you act all surprised and angry.

This stupid liberal blogger could have told you four years ago, and in fact I think I did, that the Democrats were wiping out all traces of reproductive rights issues from their campaign webpages in order to court the evangelical vote. They were so desperate to win that they were willing to turn their backs on their own base. What the fuck do you think I’ve been complaining about for 4 long years??

This is the party you voted for. If you don’t like it, no one is holding a gun to your head to make you vote for them. There are choices. Pick one. The election is still 8 months away. Tell them what to do and if they don’t do it, walk away. You have nothing to lose at this point. Nothing.

PS. I would never call Digby a “dim-witted dupe”. That title belongs to women like icebergslim over at DailyKos. Maybe chickenshit is more like it for Digby. I do understand the feeling of feeling totally powerless and clinging to a group out of desperation, hoping they will do the right thing. But you’re still totally powerless if you never challenge them and they do what they want anyway. I’d rather not beat my head against Ayer’s Rock. The Democrats don’t give a shit about anything but your vote and that cartoon, as disgusting as it is, has a kernel of truth to it. Republicans watched the Democrats over the last four years and definitely have our number.

23 Responses

  1. Wasn’t Atrios a swoon-bot?

    • Not as bad as some of the others, iirc. Remember how Josh Marshall was kidnapped? Did they ever pay the ransom for his return? I don’t go to TPM any more.
      No, atrios wasn’t awful. I read eschaton straight thru the campaign and only rarely wanted to drive down to Philly to give him a swirly. And I understand that Digby was a chickenshit and afraid of her commenters. But they aren’t helping their cause right now by letting the Democrats get away with murder.
      I am a voter without a party so I know what they’re up against. That doesn’t mean they have to take it.

      • If memory serves he had a new arrival in the Marshall family so had to put food on them. The bot-side was paying better at that time.

    • I might add that it’s not always easy to say stuff that will make them mad and cause myself to be even more unpopular than I am. But I do it because I think they can make a difference if they weren’t so fucking compliant. In fact, they might be the only ones who *can* make a difference.

  2. I’m still waiting to see if the third-wavers are going to actually DO anything about this recent tidal wave of misogyny. Irony and mocking go only so far.

    • I’m disappointed with women’s advocacy groups. It seems like they only exist to put up petitions, collect email addresses and turn them over to the Obama campaign so we can be called later.
      I have no idea why the third wavers didn’t see this coming in 2008 but somehow, I think that women MoDo’s age are more aware of what they lost. The third wavers still seem clueless.

      • They are!! I spoke to one the other day who supported Obama in 2008, and she didn’t have a clue about his record or commitment to reproductive rights. She assumed he was pro-choice, but had no knowledge of what he has and or hasn’t done on the issue since taking office.

        She had no idea that the fundies Obama was courting and got in 2008, is why we still have Bush’s “conscience clause” which has metastasized into a cancer under Obama, and is the underpinnings for all of these recent attacks of women’s health at the Federal level.

  3. nemo52 nails it. This is Atrios’ way of washing his hands. “We were always with you, women! Too bad this is going to happen, but I’m showing my support by being cynical and clever! And don’t forget to vote Obama!”

    I swear, the reaction of left blogistan has been to double down on their repubicans-are-so-stupid-look-how-smart-we are posts. I have heard precious little planning on what to do about it.

    • It’s kind of like feeling a lump and being in denial. You know you should take care of it but you just hope that you’ll wake up tomorrow and it will be gone- magically! Meanwhile, the sucker metastasizes and spreads.
      The Republicans play to win. Even when they lose, like they did in 2008, they did it to make sure that the weakest democrat they could help get elected would take the blame for shit that was about to hit the fan. This isn’t even brilliant strategy but Democrats appear to be helpless to do anything about it.

  4. You are so right about Obama and the evangelicals….here’s what I was researching last time around:




    and, of course…the stupidity of all this results in:

    Matthew 25 Network PAC Hits Christian Radio with Pro-Obama Ad as Christian Conservative Leaders Decide to Support McCain (UPDATED 1X)


    Now, we’re hearing that the rules about contraception/religious institutions have been published and the Prez has “stood his ground” er, maybe not, as they are asking for public input!!

    Yeah, heard the NOW lady on explaining iit all with a silly grin on her face….how it let the religious colleges off the hook, but there will be some way to have college students/employees have coverage…

    If this means having to BUY more insurance, etc. then it is NOT a victory…

    Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for some rulemaking about Viagra, Cialis, etc. to have men pay for it…it’s about pleasure not healthcare…I guess male pleasure is much more vital than women’s health and freedom to grow into fully functioning members of society and participants in their own economic futures…..

    • I sent N.O.W. an email a few weeks ago telling them we need a new women’s movement and asking them if they wanted to lead it. Apparently they do not.

      I think what we need is a fourth wave which will align with the secound wave and mock the effing third wave out of existence, including N.O.W., NARAL and Emily’s List which we should all agree are nothing more than the women’s auxiliary of the democratic party. I should add that all of which seem to have been infiltrated by third wavers.
      At the same time they do give a lot of money to women candidates so we can not sabotage those few women we do have in office by expecting them to abandon those organizations. We don’t want less women in power, we wan’t more. The country will move left if women are in those congressional and senate seats. So I couldn’t care less for more radical or leftist candidates, just stronger and more outspoken movement leaders.
      Hillary Clinton is neither leftist nor radical, but she is outspoken and she is certainly strong. I want more like her. Women to the left of her and to the right of her who will defend women and children and the constitution and equal rights for all people, in practical terms, like healthcare and same sex partnerships. You know?

      • Women’s Auxiliary or comfort girls?

        From the respect given by Obama and company I suspect it’s the latter.

  5. PS…Sandra Fluke apparently isn’t jumping for joy of this big news about the rules being published at this point…

  6. I think the third wavers like misogyny don’t they? It’s like penance for being born with girl parts. “see, I might have been born with girl parts but I am really a boy at heart.”

  7. Liberals and democrats suck. I am not a liberal but a conservative cause:

    1–Im not a gay

    2–I like to make money in business

    Obama sucks too. USA is about to get into chaos in the middle east and oil is going to spike

    whhhooooo hooooo!!

    Montgomery is awesome!

    • Gee D Struck, you seem to be confused. I am not gay either. I think businesses should make lots of money. I didn’t vote for Obama and will not vote for him again. The ME has been chaos for years and it certainly did not start with Obama…. we have not forgotten dubya, thank you very much for that disaster. And I am a liberal. Go figure.
      Perhaps when trolling you should come armed with better material.

  8. Today is the day the gutters overflow with green puke.

    Some un related thoughts:

    Has anybody asked Bungalow dick his thoughts on Catholic priests boinking altarboys?

    Is anal reconstructive surgery coverd by the health insurance at Catholic institutions?

    If you beat your wife Saturday night can you still recieve communion at Sunday mass?

    I’m in such a good mood.

    • Happy Saint Patricks Day!!!!

      Be ready for $6 gas!!

      I think I will say hi to my priest

    • Mr Mike, I live about 40 miles from Scranton Pa. Home of the 3rd largest St Patrick’s day parade in the nation and therefor in the world I suppose. The drinking starts early in the morning, the river runs green and everyone is already Irish. The city is run by the Irish lawyers Mafia and when one of them is convicted of a crime and sent to prison there are five more waiting to take over. When you go there you catch a brogue. I live in the land of pro-life democrats and I have been cursed by them for working for the candidacies of “abortionists” like Ed Rendell.

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