• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    riverdaughter on Harris
    riverdaughter on Harris
    CeeBee on Harris
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Harris
    riverdaughter on Harris
    CeeBee on Harris
    lililam on Here’s the plan, Nancy
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Here’s the plan, Nancy
    HerstoryRepeating on Here’s the plan, Nancy
    Ga6thDem on Here’s the plan, Nancy
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Here’s the plan, Nancy
    lililam on Here’s the plan, Nancy
    riverdaughter on Here’s the plan, Nancy
    Ga6thDem on Here’s the plan, Nancy
    riverdaughter on Here’s the plan, Nancy
  • Categories


  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

    October 2011
    S M T W T F S
     1
    2345678
    9101112131415
    16171819202122
    23242526272829
    3031  
  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Open Thread
      Feel free to use the comments to discuss topics unrelated to recent posts.
  • Top Posts

The New Apostolic Reformation’s bat$#!^ crazies, Gender Glasses and CNN tells the (partial) truth about the 2008 primaries

Terry Gross did an interview with Peter Wagner, a leader of the New Apostolic Reformation or NAR.  NAR was one of the organizers of the prayer rally that Rick Perry attended.  This interview is jaw dropping.  I have to hand it to Gross for handling this well.  What she does is ask Wagner to talk about the emperor of Japan’s “marriage” to the Sun Goddess and he takes it from there.  It’s in the first part of the interview.  Go listen.

There’s a picture of Wagner of his wife.  They look so sweet.  He’s a rounder, more cherubic version of Colonel Sanders, she looks like one of those nice ladies you meet at a church bake sale who always makes those killer combo bars.  You would never know that they are a few nuggets short of a Happy Meal.  Their earnestness disguises a disrespectful hardness towards your personal belief system.  What *they* believe is inviolable.  What YOU believe is up for negotiations.  And they will never, never stop trying to convert you or pull the country over to their way of thinking.  It never occurs to them that they sound unhinged or that their belief system concentrates everything on an afterlife and nothing on ameliorating the suffering in the current life.  It’s narrow minded, conformist and judgmental.  They determine what is moral and if you don’t get with the program, you’re a target for evangelism or social shunning.

Sure, these people are making a living but don’t think for a second that they don’t believe it.  The sun goddess of Japan is a demon and the emperor had sex with her.

Uh-huh.

It sort of reminds me of this guy:

If you’re one of them, yes, you really do sound this crazy.  No, I cannot take you seriously.  I don’t care if I’m not going to paradise with you.

By the way, there is evidence that more  Americans identify themselves as atheists, freethinkers and naturalists.  Peter Wagner has his work cut out for him.

Note:  I see that @apostolicnews is now following me on Twitter.  Please note that I am not your typical elitist snob.  I know people like you personally, know what you believe, know what programs you watch and understand the way you think.  I reject your form of christianity not because I’m a snob but because I find it arrogant and disrespectful of other people’s belief systems and incompatible with goodwill to all people.  Save your breath.  You are not going to make any converts here.

**********

On another note, The American Prospect has finally gotten around to posting something about the hidden discrimination that women face in the workplace in the post Sexism’s Low Grade Fever.  Here’s a money quote:

The unwelcoming workplace isn’t a deadly cancer; rather, it’s a steady low-grade fever that wears you down by degrees (if you’ll forgive my pun). You can diagnosis this illness through one critical measure: Women rarely stay long enough to rise up through the ranks. Or because they rarely rise, they leave. That’s a loss of momentum for women’s careers and energies—and a loss of energy and talent for the organization that derides, diminishes, and disparages their work.

For instance, I’m reminded of a major nonprofit that produced an impressive, in-depth project related to violence against women. When I congratulated the women who’d produced it, they told me that their bosses had been openly hostile to the project—and had ignored, undermined, and belittled their efforts at every turn. They’d never have been permitted to do it, but they’d wrangled a grant for it on their own. The project made an enormous splash and got critical White House attention. But within months after they’d finished the project, all but one of the women who produced it were gone; they were either pushed out or departed on their own. The women had to work on creating successful careers within different organizations—a real loss of momentum for them and talent for the organization. The men who’d rolled their eyes at the project were left to collect the awards.

Yes.  It’s always a stupid idea until the woman is out of the way and then it’s suddenly brilliant for the guy who stands to benefit when she leaves.

It’s about a week too late and sounds very familiar.  Here’s a recent Confluence post on this.  And here’s another.   Actually, I can probably go back through the last couple of years to find similar posts that I wrote.  This is a big problem that has been simmering for quite a while.  I don’t know whether guys have gotten more blatant about it lately or whether it was always there.  Or maybe the problem is that enough women have developed enough expertise in their fields that the discrimination is severely hurting their careers and they’re just discovering that the behavior they’re coached to deploy doesn’t cut it.  The problem is that men aren’t cooperating and women have had enough.

E.J. Graff, the author, says we should quantify it?  (I think I suggested that first) Ok, but quantifying it goes beyond simply measuring salaries and promotions that Graff suggested.  In fact, if you only do that, you will miss all the memorable self-esteem and career crushing “features” that working in male centric environments have to offer.  By the way, did you know that Finland (yes, them again) has a program run by the government called Gender Glasses?  It conducts investigations of workplaces where gender discrimination is alleged.  One of the tools they use to ferret out the truth is statistics.  EVERYTHING can be measured, including how much men ignore their female colleagues.  Just mine the digital data that is already archived on the company servers.

If I were an enterprising politician, I’d run with this.

***********

One more thing: Peep pointed me to this post at CNN this morning that shows what a disaster the 2008 Democratic primary has been for the Democrats.  Most of this analysis is correct, although I disagree on a few elements.  For example, Obama’s “superior” organization in the caucus states was helped by the fact that no one who complained about being screamed at, jostled, locked out and overwritten at the caucus sites who was a Hillary supporter was actually taken seriously.  If superior organization means hiring operatives and thugs and bussing people in from an adjoining state to go to caucuses to make sure you win no matter what, then, yeah, Obama did a much better job at that than Clinton.  The other thing is that the way the DNC at first withheld and then awarded the delegates in Michigan and Florida at the May 31, 2008 RBC hearing completely invalidated the votes of every other Hillary voter in all the other primary states.  And the fact that this is what the DNC was planning all along was crystal clear shortly (like within a day) of SuperTuesday in early February 2008.  The fix was in that early.  Buying the superdelegates was just icing on the cake.

So, now it looks like buyer’s remorse has set in and Obama doesn’t have coattails.  No s#@%, Sherlock.  As Harold Ickes said at the RBC meeting, it was not a good way to start down the path of party unity.  Obama didn’t have the consent of half of his own party and those of us who witnessed what the party did to its stronger candidate will never forget how we were disenfranchised so it could anoint a banker financed, shmoozing political neophyte to the presidency during the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.  And don’t say, “Nobody could have predicted”.  We did.

(I love this comment from the CNN article:  THOUGHT OF THE DAY:  If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you weren’t a racist, please do our great country a huge favor and vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you’re not an IDIOT.)

There is still time to replace him at the top of the ticket.  To do otherwise would be extremely irresponsible.

Oh, By the way, whatever happened to this guy who gave away the entire NJ 121 vote delegation  to the candidate who lost the state in the primary in 2008?

24 Responses

  1. Their earnestness disguises a disrespectful hardness towards your personal belief system.

    You’re not exactly open-minded about people of faith.

    • On the contrary. I don’t care what crazy crap people believe. If they want to worship trees or go into trance states or do the whole “America is a Christian nation founded on Judeo-Christian principles” thing, that’s fine with me.
      What I object to is someone pushing their belief system in my face as the only acceptable form of the “truth” and belittling everyone else’s as spiritually immature and a “false” religion and deserving of a religious conversion. And if you grew up the way I did, myiq, you KNOW this is exactly what they do. I object to fundamentalist extremism of all varieties. The problem is we give fundamentalist too much legitimacy and reverence in the public sphere. I believe we should privatize religion. MY beliefs are none of THEIR business. If everyone kept their beliefs to themselves, we’d all be a lot happier.
      So, if they want to believe that the emperor had a literal tryst with the Sun Goddess, fine with me. Knock yourself out. But I do not want them acting like they have some exclusive lock on respectability and virtue that the rest of us do not possess.
      BTW, if you are acknowledging the existence of a Sun Goddess in the first place, you are admitting that you are not a monotheist. Jeez, even Muslims believe there is only ONE god.

      • Right on! And the tax breaks on the business of religion should be abolished, except for verifiable charitable donations. I know that my old Sunday school “texts” were not sent to Africa along with any pennies that I got selling bottles. The preachers always were prosperous, and the amount of loot collected was tallied three times during the church service. Plate went around three times. My little brother was money oriented, and his eyes would get big as the plate was passed by him. He helped himself to the biggest note he saw. Years later when my Thai sister-in-law was invited to save her soul, she went to see what a “farang” church was like. Her assessment–a business. She was offended by all of the emphasis on giving money (and this is in addition to the 10 percent tithe that keeps a lot of families poor). I saw “the light” at about age ten, and found other more spiritual activities to pursue during that hour (then deemed the most segregated hour in the U.S.). The “elders” told me I was going to hell if I didn’t join the church.

        • tax breaks for religion should end? Why do you hate separation of church and state? Do you really want churches to gain political power by being taxed and so having a voice in government?

      • Honk Honk !!!! 🙂

    • We at the Apostolic Reformation Synod of England (ARSE) believe) in the sun (though we’ve never seen it.

      • In case you haven’t heard of us, we trace out lineage back to The Cadaver Synod (also called the Cadaver Trial or, in Latin, the Synodus Horrenda) -the posthumous ecclesiastical trial of Catholic Pope Formosus, held in the Basilica of St. John Lateran in Rome during January of 897.
        Before the proceedings the body of Formosus was exhumed and, according to some sources, seated on a throne while his successor, Pope Stephen (VI) VII, read the charges against him (of which Formosus was found guilty) and conducted the trial.

        Really- Google that sh*t!

        • Well, alright then. Sounds, um, interesting, to say the least.

        • The Synod strikes again?

          From Skydancing;

          Italian criminologists were opining in the media and eventually on the witness stand that because the body had been covered with a blanket, the killer was surely female because such an act was evidence of feminine “pieta.”

          Finally, there were the prosecution’s operatic closing arguments, repeated almost verbatim in the appeal that ended last week. Knox was a “luciferina” — a she-devil — capable of a special, female duplicity. She was “dirty on the inside.” Always, even from the defense lawyers, the closing arguments ended with appeals to God, in a medieval courtroom with a peeling fresco of the Madonna on the wall and a crucifix hanging above the judge.

          http://skydancingblog.com/2011/10/04/amanda-knox-victim-of-outlandish-misogyny/

  2. I’m beginning to think we Americans put more thought into choosing the breakfast cereal or shampoo we use than we do for our vote for president. If that wasn’t the case then who wins early on would make no difference to the outcome of the primaries.

    • All filtered through the “media” and the party “leaders.” Lots of big money that the average shopper has never seen. Not much to relate to, other than someone who might be fun to share a beer with, assuming the guy isn’t on the wagon.

  3. […] Riverdaughter) LD_AddCustomAttr("AdOpt", "1"); LD_AddCustomAttr("Origin", "other"); […]

  4. I’ve got to handle to Gross for handling this interview as well as she did. She asked some very pointed questions in a very tactful way. She’s an obnoxious Obot koolaid drinker but she’s still the best interviewer on radio. It kind of makes me wonder why she couldn’t be this way with Theresa Ghilarducci or some of the Hillary surrogates in 2008.

    • Maybe because Gross was raised Jewish, she thinks there might be more to these evangelicals than there really is. I doubt she has had much first-hand knowledge. She was always very kind to Tammy Faye.

      I was thinking this morning that Hillary probably wouldn’t have ended up in politics if she hadn’t married Bill. She would have worked in a field that furthered the advancement of woman, and by her own example, made a big difference. At Wellesley, she was a leader of women. I can see her being in her element as the leader of a non-profit international woman’s group (one that works well with the existing groups and raises all boats). The Clinton Foundation is an excellent place for her to carve out her niche. As a president, she would have been a remarkable talent, one harkening back to the Founders, not the usual yes men who are elevated as candidates because they are already bought and sold.

      • She was involved in politics long before she met Bill. My opinion is that she might already be in the white house had she not met Bill.
        But I do agree that she still has a lot to offer the country and the world. I wouldn’t like to see her taking a secondary role to her husband in his organization. I would rather see her advocate for equality for women, specifically. I would also like to see her concentrate on this country. We have major problems we have to solve before we can really lead the world in the right direction.

  5. There have always been people of religion who are intolerant and people against religion who are intolerant. I have a hard time telling them apart sometimes. I do not agree with or like the religious types you are discussing in this post, but I do not fear them either. As a nation we have been having this same discussion since the 1600s. The religious/anti religious debate ebbs and flows and neither side ever gains much ground before they are smacked down….. (snark) thank God. (/snark)
    I remember years ago being worried about/disgusted by the “moral majority” which I used to call the immoral big mouth minority. What ever happened to them?

    “Obama had a better organization” ranks right up there with meaningless crap like “people would rather have a beer with Bush”. If so, why did both Al and Hillary get more votes? Logic and facts seem to have little to do with journalism these days.
    In fact I believe the B.S. which passes as journalism is a much bigger threat to this country than the B.S. that passes as religion. The media (nor the access bloggers) will ever tell the whole truth about the 2008 primaries. They would have to admit their own complicity. Instead they will say “she ran a bad campaign” (yeah, but more people voted for her) or in the case of bloggers and other clueless Obama supporters, “she would be just as bad as Obama”.
    It is all about excusing what they did and how stupid they were. They can not face the truth, not fully.

    RD, you gave me a good idea. At least I think it is a good idea… why NOT run for office? If you aren’t getting anywhere with the job search, why not? You are an intelligent person with an advanced degree in a respected science. You write well which I am guessing means you speak well. You have a ready made platform and the passion to want to see “things” get better. Have you considered it at all? We need more women in office, that is for sure. Run for congress. I’ll campaign for you.

    • I already ran once for school board and won in a landslide. But there’s already a great candidate running for NJ07 and that is Ed Potasnak.
      If I were living in a different legislative district in NJ, I might consider it. Although, after redistricting, my township might end up With a different congressman. Rush Holt is the logical candidate and I like him. My township borders his legislative district.
      But anyway, there are zero women in the NJ Congressional delegation and haven’t been for a couple decades. That’s really unacceptable.

      • There are only a few women from Pa in congress. Yes, completely unacceptable. I am tired of being under represented.
        My advice to you is to watch for an opening. An opportunity will present itself. Having run once successfully is a good indicator.

  6. My greatest hope is that crazy fundies will shun me socially. Oh please, oh please, don’t talk to me.

    Great post. And re-remembering the Dem primaries gets me pissed off all over again. Asswipes.

    • What we need is some kind of badge we can stick on our shirts, like a giant red E with a diagonal line through it that would indicate that we don’t want to be evangelized. If one of them starts up, you just tap the E to suggest that they go away. The atheists could wear their scarlet A.
      Also, if NAR is infiltrating the entertainment industry, or any other segment of society, it would be a good idea if they identified themselves. To do otherwise seems unethical, deceptive and misleading. It sort of falls into the “thou shalt not bear false witness” category if you’re not honest about your intentions.

  7. Christie is not running for president.
    F*€%!

    • I didn’t think he would. Now maybe the republicans will stop the speculation and get down to the business of cleaning up the mess they are left with.

  8. Couple of points on the 2008 primaries:

    1. The Obama campaign, by many accounts including affidavits and individuals willing to give their names to two separate movies, committed caucus fraud in the 2008 TX primaries

    2. The chair of the RBC that awarded Obama the delegates he did not earn in FL and MI was James Roosevelt, CEO of Tufts Health, which benefitted hugely from the bailout that Obama gave his industry with Obamacare.

    3. Also, too, the vile and grotesque misogyny.

    • Texas was not the only place that experienced caucus fraud. From what I can remember, it was alleged that Obama bussed in people from Illinois into Iowa. I’d also heard that they ran roughshod over the more typical caucus goers in Kansas and that unlike previous election years, the lines to enter the caucus sites there were unreal, leaving a lot of people outside in freezing temperatures waiting to get in. Then there are the caucus states that also ran primaries, which never made much sense to me. If you have a primary, what’s the point of having a caucus?? The primary is much more democratic. But I digress. How many of them were out of sync with each other? IIRC, quite a few.
      You know, I don’t know if Obama’s campaign made deals with James Roosevelt or not. We can speculate. But he wasn’t the only member on that panel. I think the RBC and DNC just didn’t want to lose in 2008 and they had talked themselves into believing that running a swave and deboner African American guy was more likely to be successful than running a more experience, competent, Democratic woman. Either candidate would have been historic and after the crash of Sept 2008, Bart Simpson could have run as a Democrat and won. But they didn’t know that in May 2008. All they knew is that there was a small but extremely noisy and vocal contingent of Democratic party activists acting like 2 year olds, throwing temper tantrums if Hillary Clinton got between them and the new shiny toy they wanted. Plus, the money he was hauling in was so good, they couldn’t pass it up. PLUS, *they* knew that if Hillary was president, no guy was going to be made to be accountable to follow her lead because they wouldn’t do it so why should they expect anyone else to do it? That’s where the misogyny came in.
      I think the RBC owes us all a huge apology. They were so desperate to win that they ruined their own party.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: