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It’s Change! Alright

Hillary for President in 2012. Accept no substitutes.

Three years ago, I was a gainfully employed scientist designing oncology drugs.  I had a modest townhouse, a used car, a small pension and an lousy 401K.  I based some of my projected retirement salary on my social security benefits and medicare.  Now, through no fault of my own, I join the ranks of the highly skilled, educated unemployed, along with tens of thousands of similarly blighted R&D professionals.  I paid into the social security trust fund since my first days on the job in 1986.  I paid into the surplus fund because we babyboomers “are too meny”.  We were guaranteed to not die in poverty if we paid up in advance.  Well, I guess that only applies to the older babyboomers.  Those of us under 55 are screwed.  Those of us caught between Gen X and the tailend of the babyboom are doubly screwed.  We’re supposed to find jobs paying the salaries we had before but no one wants to pay for that expertise.  But we’re considered too old to learn new stuff, which is not only untrue (because I’ve actually done it) but leaves us wondering what the f^&* we’re supposed to live on until the age of 85.

And now, the Lightbringer, the agent of Change!, has decided that this is the time, the once in a lifetime opportunity to screw those of us who fall below that 55 year old line and anyone else who might be too poor, too old or too female to be a winner in this country’s new economy:

President Obama is pressing congressional leaders to consider a far-reaching debt-reduction plan that would force Democrats to accept major changes to Social Security and Medicare in exchange for Republican support for fresh tax revenue.

At a meeting with top House and Senate leaders set for Thursday morning, Obama plans to argue that a rare consensus has emerged about the size and scope of the nation’s budget problems and that policymakers should seize the moment to take dramatic action.Republicans showed new signs of flexibility to break a budget impasse Wednesday, but the White House raised the ante, pushing for more deficit reduction and casting the GOP as defenders of corporate tax giveaways.As part of his pitch, Obama is proposing significant reductions in Medicare spending and for the first time is offering to tackle the rising cost of Social Security, according to people in both parties with knowledge of the proposal. The move marks a major shift for the White House and could present a direct challenge to Democratic lawmakers who have vowed to protect health and retirement benefits from the assault on government spending.“Obviously, there will be some Democrats who don’t believe we need to do entitlement reform. But there seems to be some hunger to do something of some significance,” said a Democratic official familiar with the administration’s thinking. “These moments come along at most once a decade. And it would be a real mistake if we let it pass us by.”

Know what, Obots?  I don’t ever, EVER want to hear that Hillary wouldn’t have done anything differently.  We told you what Obama was.  You had the chance to reject him.

Words cannot describe how angry I am.  I am now stuck trying to make a living in this economy at a time when I have to put a kid through college.  (By the way, I’d like to thank whatever angels are out there who have realized I haven’t exaggerated the kid’s talents and have gone out of their way to offer her opportunities she might not otherwise have.  It helps.) The salary is gone. The health insurance is gone. The pension is decades away and the 401K is dormant. I have to pay a mortgage in a very high tax state on top of paying COBRA and there are no jobs, guys.  NO JOBS.  Did you get that John Aravosis?  A drug designer with experience in computational chemistry and structural biology can’t find a job finding and designing cancer drugs or HIV protease inhibitors or anti-psychotic drugs.  I will have to design them myself and find someone to make them and test them and solve their structures.  And I’m supposed to do this with what exactly?  Magic ponies??  By the time I go through my savings, I’ll have nothing left to retire on but Social Security.  Social Security was supposed to be an insurance policy for those of us who had tried and didn’t quite end up in the bonus class, eating what they kill.

You people who supported Obama after we begged and pleaded with you to not do it, to consider what you were doing to the “old coalition”, who tried to tell you he was not who you thought he was, you people have lost all credibility.  Do you get it?  No one is going to listen to you anymore.  No one wants to hear about Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich or Russ Feingold or whoever your latest cerebral but impractical choice of a presidential candidate is.  If you don’t, right this moment, thoroughly and completely abandon and repudiate Obama and immediately embrace the only legitimate Democrat who can turn this ship around, you’re finished.  You will fade into the crazy, elite, lunatics who ruined the working class by shoving a weak, Republican in disguise down our throats. Your unhinged rantings about Bill Clinton’s “triangulating”. ie, performing politics in the face of a overtly hostile Republican Congress and media, will fall on deaf ears. People will remember your detached wails about “welfare reform” and NAFTA when they’re searching desperately for jobs that aren’t being shipped off to Germany, France and Chindia. They will remember when Bill Clinton drove down unemployment to 4% and taxed the rich. They’ll remember that your Messiah didn’t do any of those things.  And don’t ask for any help from us to protect you from the Republican Scourge in 2012 because we’ll remember Obama capitulating to the Republican Scourge in 2011. We don’t want more of the same and it’s about time our votes meant something.  In any case, we’ll be too busy killing ourselves to make a living to want to lift a finger to help Obama inflict any more Change!™ on us.

It’s Hillary or no one for the Democratic presidential campaign in 2012.  I’d rather vote for an obscure third party candidate than either major party candidate.  It’s up to the Democrats to decide if they really want to lose in 2012 and go down in history as the most hated version of the Democratic party in American history.  No one should reward this level of greed, powerlust and incompetence.  If the Republicans win in 2012 it will be because the Democrats walked away from their responsibility to do the right thing.  Blaming the voters is unacceptable and vile.

If you Obots don’t join us and push Obama out in favor of the true Democrat, be prepared to be the most loathed people in the country.

123 Responses

  1. It’s a problem. I’m neither Obamabot nor Obamabash. I do believe that if he actually proposes SS/Medicare cuts in exchange for tax increases, he should and will be primaried.

    In ’08, I said openly that I liked her health care proposal better than his. And that was better than the one he was proposing, not the one we got. My problem was, and I’ll be honest here, is that I could not abide the idea that Bill Clinton would be back in the White House. It’s bad enough he’s running around still doing damage with this Global Initiative. Should Hillary be saddled with the disaster of Bill? Probably not, but I fear she is. And neither am I convinced that an H.Clinton Presidency could or would make much difference given the nature of the Presidency itself.

    But if this turns out as the Post is reporting, Obama will have a credible challenger from somewhere.

    • Know what I want to read in your comments? I want to hear, “wow, we blew off 18,000,000 voters for Hillary and maybe they were right. I’m willing to give her a chance in 2012.”
      That’s what I want to read. If you can’t write that here, go away.

      • Well, I kind of think I said that, but if that’s what you want to hear, then OK. Do I have to use your exact verbiage like ‘blew off’? I thought that’s what primaries are for.

        So here goes. I voted (and worked for) Obama in ’08 because, even though I liked Hillary’s health care proposal better, I just couldn’t stand the idea of having Bill around. Was that logical? Probably not. Was I wrong, maybe. It’s hard to say what would have happened if…

        Have I been happy with many, most or perhaps any actions of the Presidency since Obama took office? Not really. But I have a very jaundiced eye as to what the Presidency is for. During the ’08 campaign I was asked what improvements I expected out of an Obama Presidency. My reply was “Complete sentences.”

        But the real difference with this decision is both ideological ~ social security is sacred ground ~ and practical.

        In practice, Obama advocating cuts in SS/Medicare will virtually guarantee that he loses Florida (where I live). If he loses Florida, he cannot win reelection. If he decides on cuts, Senator Bill Nelson (D. Fla) must and will come out immediately against it. He will have to run as far away from the President as he can, as he is already vulnerable to several Republican challengers. Distancing himself from the President will probably not save him.

        If however, Obama faces a primary challenge, which I expect he will, from Hillary or some other credible candidate, then there will at least be some hope for saving Nelson’s seat. (Not that Nelson’s all that great, but damn.)

        If Hillary suddenly steps down from State, and she has a favorable rating as Secretary at this point, then we will know she’s running. At that point, of course, I’m more than willing to listen, just as I will to any serious contender.

        Is that ok? Do I still have to leave?

        • No, you weren’t logical. You must mistake us for the idiot Democrats who thot Bill Clinton is a deal breaker to the rest of us. We’re not stupid. Bill Clinton could have gotten a dozen blow jobs and we still would look back on his terms with envy.
          You had a responsibility to see the primaries were fair. You didn’t. No, no, don’t even try to wiggle out of that one. We can count.
          We won’t tolerate any more propaganda.
          You had your way. You were wrong. We don’t have to listen to you anymore.
          I want Hillary in 2012. I am not going to settle for anyone else. Don’t even try.

          • Agreed, to saddle Hillary with Bill is unfair and illogical. I’ve said so. But it is also illogical to suppose that you know that I “mistake us [you] for the idiot Democrats who thot Bill Clinton is a deal breaker to the rest of us. We’re not stupid. Bill Clinton could have gotten a dozen blow jobs and we still would look back on his terms with envy.”

            First off, you have no idea what I must have done. Second, blow jobs had nothing to do with it. What it had to do with was him breaking the decades long compact between the Democratic party and the labor movement along with rejection of the long-standing idea that the federal government could and should play a progressive social role, and, being as I am in Florida and a Haitian rights activist, his race-based wet foot/dry foot policy, and a range of other distinctly non-Democratic principles.

            But this is not about Bill, it’s about Hillary and the possibility of her challenging Obama. I get it that’s she’s your candidate, whether she runs officially or not. I will not try, even if I thought you were wrong, to try to dissuade you. I have said quite clearly as you have asked, that I would seriously give her a shot. I must confess to being mystified about my ‘responsibility to see that the primaries were fair.’ I cannot promise that the primaries will be fair.

            Is there something more that you would require of me? If there is, may I ask, why is this blog called The Confluence?

          • It means that this is a blog for people who couldn’t find a voice anywhere else.
            That means, people who were right about obama from the very beginning won’t be forced to stfu by a bunch of Obama apologists.
            We’re Democrats in exile. We believe in Democratic principles. If you want to diss the Clintons, because you still don’t get it that the vast majority of voters don’t agree with you, then take it somewhere else.

        • Shorthand problem. You write: ” I just couldn’t stand the idea of having Bill around.”

          Well, if we think back to the trenches of 2008, “couldn’t stand” implies that your concerns are a blow-job, or something to do with his Bubba nature, or any of the other myriad talking points the VRWC propagated when they were ginning up the impeachment trial, and which the Obama Fans cheerfully recycled, along with the lie that Bill Clinton was racist, all shameful acts that to this day are neither admitted nor discussed (see under Democratic Party, cancer on).

          Now, reading further, I see that your concerns are policy based. But that’s not what your initial shorthand suggested, and I can see why reactions to it would be negative. Mine was.

        • If you worked for Obama, you knowingly worked for someone who had campaigned for Lieberman, had voted to renew the patriot act, had said he opposed the right of gay people to marry, campaigned with Donnie McClurkin, and said he would escalate the war in Afghanistan.

          I can see not voting for Hillary.

          But actually working for Obama…
          You had some peculiar agenda my friend.

          • Telecom immunity switch, too. Had anyone investigated they would not have found anything altruistic in the political arena to praise about Obama…he did nothing for anyone who did not grease his hands. His “accomplishments in the State House were the work of other legislators, forced to pass on their long-term efforts so that O could run across the finish line and have a record. He paid this Speaker of the House benefactor back handsomely with pork in his district, adjacent to O’s, paid for by our tax dollars, after he was handed the Senate position. No opposition there… his opponents’ sealed divorce records were revealed to the Chicago Tribune and its sister publication, the LA Times. Even better than hiring a Harvard election official to eliminate all four opponents so he could run unopposed for the State Senate when he first limped upon the scene. So Lincolnesque!

            “Obama was in a position to do good, but he did not.” A summation of his short, sweet political career in Illinois by a high-level behind-the-scenes political operative native to the South Side of Chicago.

    • Neither side yet u worked for O? You’re pants are on fire.

  2. So what has Hillary had to say on the whole “debt ceiling” fake debate? From the tone of your post I would have to assume she’s denounced Obama’s bailout Wall Street criminals / steal workers’ retirement agenda in the strongest terms?

    • Her job is Foreign Policy. If you want her to make statements about Obama’s disastrous economic policies, I suggest you draft her to run for president in 2012.
      Same thing applies to you. If you can’t get behind us and support Hillary as a primary challenger in 2012 because she was the legitimate winner in 2008 and is the only Democrat who can win in 2012, then go away.
      This site is not a place for Obot apologists. We will monitor the comment threads rigorously just like we did in 2008.
      If you want to diss Hillary and boost Obama, I suggest you go hang out at all of the other discredited left blogosphere sites who used misogynism and bludgeoned dissenters with accusations of racism to get this fraud nominated. You can talk amongst yourselves and we won’t be forced to put up with you.

      • RD, like that line in the sand….accept no substitute. Hillary said she’s not running, but that doesn’t have to keep people from demanding she does…ANY push back is better than none and nothing could be more pointless than supporting Obama . A movement to draft Tinkerbell would be more constructive…..and Hill is no Tinkerbell.

        I saw yesterday the teachers union endorsed the light bringer What are they nuts? He’s all about killing off public education to give the job to for profit salt box academies ,

        The only way Hillary can function in this administration is by being removed from the domestic stage as its being ravaged …our only hope is she returns to it. That will happen if the top.9999 % get scared enough to allow her to . It could well happen

      • So she won’t criticize Obama, she works for him, and she doesn’t want to run against him. I agree that Obama is the biggest disaster imaginable and that I’m an idiot for voting for him, but WTF? Wake me up when Hillary at least calls the asshole out.

      • So she won’t criticize Obama, she works for him, and she doesn’t want to run against him. I agree that Obama is the biggest disaster imaginable and that I’m an idiot for voting for him, but WTF? Wake me up when Hillary at least calls the asshole out.

        By the way, the “Obot” thing is ridiculous given that I think Obama should be tried for treason. You sound just like the Obots calling anyone who criticizes Dear Leader a “PUMA”. Only paid propagandists, morons, and tribal Democrats (aka morons) support Obama at this point.

        • You don’t know what will happen. But if you want a change in the direction the Democratic party is taking, you cannot lose by getting behind a call for Hillary to primary Obama. If you don’t see the opportunity here, you aren’t thinking hard enough.

  3. I already loathe Democrats – and I used to be one – and don’t need to see what they (don’t) do in 2012 to get to that point.

    I will write in HRC’s name on any future ballot I cast. For the rest of my life.

    It’s a whole new election season and I love that I’m now back on BO and MO’s mailing lists – it gives me a whole new generation of empty envelopes to return in the mail with NObama Ever scrawled in big black marker on all sides of the envelope. I don’t kid myself that it does anything – but, damn, I feel great every time I drop one of those puppies in the mail slot.

    • {{applause}}

    • “I will write in HRC’s name on any future ballot I cast. For the rest of my life.”

      Excellent idea Marsha!
      However, let’s hope we won’t have to do that.
      Honestly, who else can possibly fix this mess?

      • (It’s Tucson Marsha)….You’re right. I still can’t imagine anyone – now or lurking in one of the back rows – that could possibly fix this mess. Sadly it’s been made an even bigger mess over these past 3 years (and I thought nothing could get worse than the Bush Years).

    • Yes it does. Now I will do the same instead of throwing them away.

    • Abby Hoffman once recommended that one could glue/tape that prepaid postage envelope on a brick and drop that in the mailbox. Of course write NObama on the brick too.

  4. Ever notice how all the people who scream “He passed welfare reform!” whenever the Big Dawg is mentioned weren’t personally affected by that legislation?

    BTW – NAFTA didn’t send a single US job to Chindia

    • He passed welfare reform!

      watch the same folks swallow Barry’s SS destruction without a belch or a peep

      • As a working class American who spent my entire career working with the poor, I heartily endorsed welfare reform.

        Otoh, I opposed NAFTA. While it may not have sent any jobs to China or India, it sure has sent several Ohio factories to Mexico and Central America.

        Bill wasn’t perfect but he was a heck of a lot better than what we had before or since.

        • Yes — and what the Obots refused to pay any attention to was the fact that Hillary OPPOSED NAFTA at the time — there are contemporaneous accounts of her arguing against it with Bill in policy meetings. Only after he’d decided NAFTA would be WH policy did she get on board — doing the loyal Dem/loyal first lady thing.

          This is what made me craziest about the Obots — they’re continually conflating Hillary with Bill.

          Get a clue, dudely doods: a woman is not her husband, she is actually a separate human being and has her own beliefs, her own way of doing things. Evaluate her on her own merits.

        • Well said, JeanLouise!


  5. Shakesville:

    What the everloving fuck. That was a terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad plan when George W. Bush proposed it, and it’s a terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad plan now.

    • You’d think a feminist site would be smart enough to realize that the only candidate you can count on to defend your personhood is another woman.
      Welcome to the future, Melissa.

  6. myq—NAFTA today, is not the one that was pased in the 90’s,

    I beleive it was a much smaller scale

    RD: I hope to God if this OBAMA does this, it will finally be the end of him—-I never wanted him in the first place,

    Republican in disguise—-YA think!!–it was so firiken obvious

  7. No one should reward this level of greed, powerlust and incompetence. If the Republicans win in 2012 it will be because the Democrats walked away from their responsibility to do the right thing. Blaming the voters is unacceptable and vile.


  8. I think Hilary had decided not to run. And why should she? She has served for so many years in so many ways and has worked like a dog the last two years — she’s earned a enjoyable retirement. But I hope she does not get it anytime soon.

    My hope is that this betrayal of the American people — and it is nothing less (even though some of us suspected candidate Obama might do this) — will make Hiallry re-consider and primary him. Draft Hillary — the time is now.


    • Tying too fast — misspelled Hilary at least once in that comment. And thank you, RD, for this wonderful post.


    • Not sure how these two ideas coexist in your brain. Hillary is the only one who can save us. She’d just prefer not to, because she wants to relax.

  9. Contrary to what the first poster stated, Hillary would be a superior President and LEADER on domestic policy, where she clearly demonstrated her beliefs through policy proposal and votes in the US Senate. Add to this, Hillary built quite the cache of working relationships within the Senate, where it was needed the most to overcome the filibuster. Obama rose quickly, He did not complete his term as a Senator, and ran for President. Think about this: Obama’s rise to the Presidency was the fastest on record. If you rise this quickly and have not paid your dues, you owe some powerful people something BIG. Hillary (and Bill) more than paid their dues and gained much vital experience that is required to be successful in public office. Obama did not. Obama is a social climber. Read his book. It is quite clear that he all about image and power, little substance of course.
    The Democrat party is to blame for this. Remember the 2008 primary where the party enforcers, (Katherine Harris’) discarded 18 million votes. Obama and the party are to blame if he loses next year.

  10. I just posted Connie Francis on myiq’s post on Senate Dems “fuming”.

    You are right — the only hope Dems have of surviving as a party is if they primary Mr.Change. But I predict that they are too addicted to lobby money to do it.

    • That is an excellent post, Votermom. I just wish that only those who voted for him were suffering. Unfortunately, a lot of the rest of us are too.


  11. I want to know is who said this:

    “But there seems to be some hunger to do something of some significance,” said a Democratic official familiar with the administration’s thinking. “These moments come along at most once a decade. And it would be a real mistake if we let it pass us by.”

    Of course, they did not let themselves be identified, the sneaky coward. Bill Daley? Ms. Jarrett? Whoever said this should be tossed out of what is left of the Democratic party.


    • I’m going with David plouffe. Wasn’t he the one who looks likes rat..

      • You could well be right. He’s the one who said unemployment does not matter to voters. That’s crazy talk.


  12. If you Obots don’t join us and push Obama out in favor of the true Democrat, be prepared to be the most loathed people in the country.

    Those O’bot’s don’t seem to give a rat’s ass what happens to our beloved party River!

    I spoke to some the other day and asked what they thought of their deity now that he has shown his ass, so to speak. Although they were furious and claimed that they HATED voting for him against Hillary, they all, to a man/woman claimed they would vote for him again!

    It was at that moment that I realized..truly realized..just how doomed we really are!
    When a people who are being oppressed by the rich and neglected by those they elect to look after their lives, their jobs, their communities etc etc…are being fed to the slaughter and yet continue to vote for the very people that are wielding the knife to their throats….When I see people, myself included, struggling just to put a decent, albeit a meager, meal on the table. people throwing their hands up at the prospects of NO WORK to be found..or the work that is found ( and that is after navigating a horde similar desperates seeking the same shit job) is flipping burgers at some fast food joint for shit pay, and still…STILL refusing to acknowledge that the man and the party DOES NOT CARE ONE IOTA what they think or feel!

    Obama and his cronies can all kiss my………………………….!!!!!!!!!!

  13. Well, I doubt that the Obots will do what you want. What then?

  14. My goal is to make it safe to be a refusnik.

    • You know, Obummer is doing to the Democratic
      party what Tony Blair did to the UK Labour party.
      Its no coincident that Margaret Thatcher once said one of her
      greatest achievement was to see Tony Blair and the labour party adopt
      conservative thinking. We see the same with Obummer having adopted
      Republican thinking. Like Blair, Obummer has tried to use “soaring” rhetoric to conceal this fact. If the Democratic party leadership doesn’t see this and act, then they are doomed.

    • And now that the Obameconomy has made you jobless, you have ALL DAY to devote to the task. (Should you choose.)

  15. Whoosh! You may or may not allow my comments to publish, RD. But either way that was a righteous rant and one I fully endorse. The Obamacrats destroyed the Democratic party with their faux King worship, their insistence that we were a bunch of racists [or merely into uterus identification].

    But there’s no way they can sell this current betrayal.

    You’re absolutely correct–Hillary Clinton was and frankly is the only Dem with a shot for turning this ship around. She said she won’t run and I don’t think she’d challenge Obama. But he deserves to be pushed out or forced to walk the plank by Democrats who have had it, who know [and knew back in 2007-08] that the man was an empty suit with no vision for the country beyond winning and who openly said he admired . . . Ronald Reagan!

    Talk about telegraphing your intent.

    If the Obamacrats cannot see or admit what’s going on now then we should start calling them by their true name:

    Republican-lite ass kissers.

  16. I hope, hope, hope that she’ll step down from the State Department and begin a primary campaign. We are in a desperate situation and going into a primary with a candidate who already won 18 million + votes would almost give us a chance against what’s coming.

    We also need to fill those ~535 jobs in Washington.

    Do you think we could find candidates among the unemployed to run on the 12 word platform?

    • I can understand if she wants to retire from the public side. But her country needs her. Sadly I think the same power machine and Republicans behind the scenes would still drag Obama across the line, but it would be a good fight and the right thing to do.

    • Even if she started a primary campaign and won it, would her party allow her to be the nominee this time around?

  17. I, too am disappointed in the Obamarama, but I think discussing what alternate reality would be in place had Hillary won is counter-productive. I think the same “muddle’ of voters who sublimate their thinking to the deference of their peers is the problem. If people were activeley involved in the debate, instead of twittering and Facebook game addiction, we would have an informed
    elctorate who understand the issues they face. As it is, anyone in power must defer to the stupid. Again, I say
    Obama is a disappointment, but there is no indication Hillary would have been more effective. That is, unless speculation, once again, eclipses common sense.

    • No indication that Hillary would have been more effective?

      Come on!! There is nothing to show that Hillary would have ever considered the crap Obama has put on the table since his election. In fact before Obama, NO Democrat endorsed the stuff he’s pushed.

      It’s popular to look at the tiny examples of their Senate votes and conclude that there wasn’t a dimes worth of difference.

      But that example deliberately ignored Hillary’s lifetime of accomplishments — none of which could lead us to think that she’d have flopped like him.

      For example, I remember her proposing a freeze on foreclosures in the fall of 2007 and her health care plan was pretty good. Not Medicare for Everyone but, pretty close. And her plan specified that people couldn’t keep paying the extreme percentages of income that they’ve (we’ve) been paying.

    • Obama could have done ANYTHING his first 6 months….. The enthusiasm for his administration (Not Bush) was nearly universal. But he hid behind the lack of a 60 vote Senate majority to do nothing. Nothing. That was on him.

      • I’m still sure that he did that on purpose. Wait, maybe he had no purpose and it took that long for the people he OWED to show up and place their orders at the drive thru.

      • Yes he could have done anything. He’s like a guy when the woman says yes right away freezes, becoming impotent. I really see him as a I say yes, you say no then you say yes and I say no kind of guy.

        I saw a pic of him with Michelle early on. she has her head ducked and she has her arms around his waist. He is standing still, unresponsive, cold. It is chilling and one wonders if she noticed and if she did why she didn’t dump him. I have thought all along that she is clumsy, unsexy and unseductive. She smacks of a woman who is sexually unfulfilled in a relationship with a man/husband who doesn’t find her sexually attractive or alluring to him and she knows it. Oh yes she knows it. He was seductive with her during the campaign as he was with all of us. He’s just the kind of guy who wants to get you to say yes, and then doesn’t want you. Or fucks you and you never hear from him again. He needed her connections in Chicago and that’s why he went after her.

        and there is a video of her exercising very athletically and wow, she is graceful with all her anger our and upfront in that kind of movement. See I look at the world as if it is a movie. Maybe that’s because it really is.

        Oh I hate him so much more than Bush. I didn’t think it was possible.

        • Michelle did reveal his dirty socks and smelly feet and other not so charming aspects of Wall Street’s darling at home before she was wised up. She revealed enough of her personality in her New Yorker interview in which she said she’d like to slap Bill Clinton’s face or punch him in the eye, or something similar. Although all of her husband’s accomplishments were handed to him–and even his own mother wondered if his switch to black identity might have been opportunistic–Michelle lorded in her position by marriage– the wife of a U.S. senator. She had quite the Brahmin attitude with the subordinates in her local realm.

          • I think that’s the same interview where she refused to identify herself as a Democrat.

          • It was “scratch his eyes out,” if memory serves. What a charmer.

          • She was the little pouty girl in the classroom who sulked because she got a word wrong on the spelling test. And she dressed very proper at Princeton. No jeans and cut offs for her.

            Now why would she say anything like that about Bill. O course Bill supposedly said to Ted Kennedy that Obama would have been bringing them coffee a few years back.

            I don’t think I’d let him shine my shoes.

    • Oh and you don’t fool me with your “I, too am disappointed in the Obamarama, but” …. It’s a Classic Obot trollism.

      You’re on our list.

      • New batches of trolls have been appearing – Dick’s reelection campaign is underway

        • He’s got to raise that billion (or is it billions)? Heaven help us if the money went to those in need. His last “election” cost $10 to $15 per vote (estimated since the actual figure cannot be determined). If he has a second term, his speaking fees might be higher and maybe there will be better teleprompter technology after he leaves office.

        • Does “Dick” mean Obummer? If yes, why?

          Oh wait, are you comparing him to Nixon? 😈

    • I remember Hillary during the 2008 primaries disparaging Obama’s ideas about getting along with the R’s. She knew what they were about and was prepared to take them on a la Harry Truman in 1948. The debates left no doubt as to who was the most competent. I will follow her into the gates of hell to do battle with the corrupt elites that threaten our well being. There are plenty of “indications” that she would have been, and will be, more effective. It’s 3AM. Who ya gonna call?

    • Smells like astroturf.

  18. Wouldn’t it be great if Obama pulled a Lyndon Johnson? ”I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your President.” Will it fit on a tweet?

  19. If Hillary runs against Obama in 2012, I’ll vote for her. If there is a draft Hillary movement, I’ll contribute.

    I also think the chances Hillary will run in 2012 are close to zero, and our focus should be more on 2016.

    • I have an instant distrust of anyone who suggests we wait for Hillary to waif until 2016. Neither the country nor Hillary can afford to wait. The person who suggests such a thing knows this and people who jump on that bandwagon are either not thinking or are too chicken to make a bold move.

      • Exactly. The main hurdle : …the upper crust ‘s refusal to let her gain the oval office she would have won in a landslide….is there for both 2012 and 2016 …..so why not push for the earlier year?

        She has said she’s not running and the hour is late. But given the forces used to block her in 08, 2016 is no more reasonable than 2012.

        Accept no substitute

        It may well be passed the time even Hillary could fix things…but damn it she would TRY to . She would not be adding gas to the fire and lecture us for not accepting serfdom fast enough.

        I love when people say there would be no difference between Hillary and Obama . Then explain to me why the global upper crust moved heavan and earth to keep her from 1600 Pa Ave.in 2008?

      • I agree it,s now and again in 2016!!!
        I want Hillary in 2012. I am not going to settle for anyone else. Don’t even try!!!!!!!!!! 🙂

  20. Unfortunately, I don’t think that Hillary will run in 2016, either. She’s consistently said that she will not run for office again and she hasn’t been the least bit coy about it.

    • I disagree. She has consistently said she has no plans to do so. Plans can change.

      • Yep, RD – she’s smart enough to always leave the door open, even if it’s just a crack.

        Perhaps, O isn’t an idiot, perhaps he doesn’t want to go through anymore real work, but doens’t want to be labeled a “quitter” so he’s throwing the presidency – he’s doing a great job of it too!

  21. I see on my Facebook feed that PUMA suddenly has a lot of new recruits. So I welcomed them.

  22. “My problem was, and I’ll be honest here, is that I could not abide the idea that Bill Clinton would be back in the White House. It’s bad enough he’s running around still doing damage with this Global Initiative”

    Damage like helping millions of people around the globe with microloans, corporate sponsorships and private initatives and cheap medicine for scourges like AIDS? I hope Bill and Hillary Clinton are around a long time to do that kind of damage.

  23. Bill’s just Bill doing his thing. But Hillary knows how to control him. He fugged her up a few times during the campaign. She’s not going to forget that.

    • Bill won TX for Hillary…Bill worked his guts out in the rural areas.in many states ….and helped her gain much of her victories…he stood by her in Indiana…where they tried to steal it for Obama by holding on to Lake counties results . Bill worked phones and SOMEONE figured out to keep another counties results out so long, Lake could no longer wait without it being so obvious, even CNN was figuring it out …and so Lake county didn’t know how many votes to cook for Obama …and that’s how they did not steal ID for him ….though thanks to the media ,people still think Obama won there.

  24. The obots didn’t want Hillary because of Bill which is sexist. Every time they mentioned HER they quoted something about HIM they didn’t like. I could see that coming from republicans but, from democrats it was and still is hard to take. Hillary is NOT Bill Clinton. She’s disagreed with him often. She wasn’t given ANY chance. And she got more votes in the primary than Obama despite it all. Yet that wasn’t enough for them. The entire thing reeks of sexism.

    The other thing they did was to site any little thing they disagreed with her on and use that as the excuse while giving Obama a complete pass on everything. They used sexism, vote manipulation and excused it all.

    I’m with Marsha. I’ll write her in as long as I live. I’m DONE with the excuses.

    Riverdaughter, I’m in the same spot you are…there’s no 401k money left. S.S. is all I had left. It’s not funny but, I KNEW the way the MSM was cheerleading Obama that he was a Trojan Horse. It was so clear that this is exactly what he would do.

    Would Hillary have been perfect as is required of a female candidate? NO but, she would not have done this with S.S. and she would have been a hell of a LOT better for women. Especially poor women, which will soon include ALL of us if Obama keeps up being a republican wet dream.

  25. I was a huge supporter of Hillary and like you, thought that Obama was actually a Manchurian candidate of the Right. And guess what? I’m more confident of this than ever. I too am unemployed (Harvard grad) and am totally screwed that the new Medicare and Soc Sec proposals. I too share your anger over the passivity that’s leading us into 3rd World status and the spineless capitulation to the Right. Where is the indignant fury over the Class Warfare that’s forcing working Americans to subsidize Billionaires? Where is the righteous anger over the gutting of the agencies that are tasked with protecting us from food poisoning pollution and corporate greed run amok? Where is the social safety net? All gone, gone, gone. Apparently, for younger baby boomers, the solution is to sharpen up your charcoal sticks, prepare to move back into the caves and spend the rest of our lives drawing pictures of wooly Republicans.

  26. I cannot help but wonder if the Pelosi, Dean, Reid and Brazille cabal who pulled out all the stops to steal the nomination for Obama have any understanding of the damage they did to the party and the country. They called the rest of us, who supported Hillary uneducated racists. Donna Brazille even went so far as to say the traditional base of the party was no longer needed. In 2008 we needed a new New Deal after the toxic Bush administration. Instead what we got was a closet republican, who has given us a Raw Deal. All this is history now, but the question is what do we do now? I would get down on my knees and beg Hillary to run, albeit I can understand how she would be loathed to do so after the scourging she received from the party. If she doesn’t run, let us consider Bernie Sanders running as an Independent. His policies with respect to the economy are just what we need to counter the republican agenda which is pure facism.

    • The Cabal doesn’t have a clue how we live, how hard we work, or the damage they’ve inflicted upon the nation we love.

      I love Bernie Sanders but can in Independent win?

    • Add liberal Icon Ted Kennedy to that list.
      Obama will most likely sink himself along with the party.
      If so, the GOP will control the ENTIRE government again after 2012.
      Hillary was mocked for taking a hardline stance against the right wing. She knew what they are up to. Obama is weak and/or controlled by his wealthy donors. There is no negotiating with the GOP.

  27. Honk x 1 Million.

  28. Hill is the only one who is strong enough, brave enough and smart enough to do the job.

    Draft Hillary, now!

  29. riverdaughter, take your expertise to Singapore. They will love you there, pay you well, and it is a delightful city to live in. Your daughter will have many advantages there. Do not spend the next year of your life fighting this impossible war on their turf.

    A brain drain to Asia will help implode the system.

  30. “They will remember when Bill Clinton drove down unemployment to 4% and taxed the rich. They’ll remember that your Messiah didn’t do any of those things.”

    They’ll also remember how he signed DOMA, cost Gore an election over a stupid affair, and got rid of Glass-Steagal which led to two disastrous bubbles.

    • Gore lost his election by running away from Clinton – not letting Bill help out with his campaign. Bill was more popular at the height of the impeachment proceedings than Bush ever was. If Gore had run a better campaign — running on the great record of his administration and his strengths instead of sounding vaguely apologetic for being a Democrat then the election wouldn’t have been so close it could be stolen by 5 votes in the Supreme Court.

      • Gore lost his election by running away from Clinton

        Indeed…..who ever heard NOT running on 8 years of peace and prosperity???and picking Lieberman as his VP? Bill was also the one to tell Gore: do not concede right away as he was planning to : fight, damn it . I often wonder if Gore was even trying

  31. Also, I’m not sure why anyone would endorse someone who voted for the Iraq War, enabled Bush’s anti-bankruptcy bill, and got wet at the idea of nuking Iran.

    • Also, I’m not sure why anyone would endorse someone who voted for the Iraq War,…

      Do you mean Obama? Because he does that every day and has for three years…and will forever

  32. Plus, I like how Hillary supporters mock Obama for not living up to “change”, when they forgot her husband’s campaign promise of universal health care.

    • Not a Hillary fan but compared to Obama, she at least tried to establish universal healthcare. Obama’s plan was an insult to the Clinton’s 1993 attempt in that it was basically a repackaged version of Bob Dole’s counter proposal to “HillaryCare”.

      • As always, follow the money. The insurance industry spent 50 mill to sink Bill and Hillary’s attempt….and spent similar amount in support of Obama’s … that tells me all I have to know about which was for real

  33. I’m with you 100% on the Obama is a heal part. As per your demand, I refudiate him. Totally confused as to why you think Hillary would be better? If you recall she was running to the right of him on almost every issue, her 3 a.m. commercials basically called him soft on terror. This is the person you want to replace Barry the future Billionaire with? The real question is why are Democrats so weak that as soon as one of their scumbag apparatchiks stab them in the back, they immediately look to the next available centrist. Hillary Clinton I have no interest in. In fact I believe the onus is on you to tell me why I should stay in the veal pen that the Democratic Party has become. Let it go, JFK’s dead. This is a switch that we all know is way overdue. The Democratic Party is Old Yeller, and there’s no cure for corporate rabies, so you know what we have to do and it’s not gonna be pretty but our children will thank us for giving them back a voice.

  34. You guys are missing the forest for the tree. Obama needs to be primaried and at the rate he is going I will not vote for him in ‘012.
    he needs to be primaried but not by Hillary. it will be kettle kettle versus pot. It seems people are forgetting her vote on Iraq, bankrupcy law, or the bills she sponsored on flag burning, iran etc? She is no better than Obama and their wing of the Democratic party which Obama belongs to should be decapitated for any meaningful change because Bill clinton empowered that group and Obama is either a product of it or bought fully into their preachings.

    if we do not have somebody of bringing real change in the presidency we should focus on electing real democrats into the house and senate to check the excesses of any predident be it the Obama or clinton wanna be republicans or bona fide republicans.

    This current American royalty mentality (see Clinton or Bush etc} needs to be thrown overboard for us to make real progress. all these dudes are beholden not to we the people but to their love foor power and the corporatios that help them achieve and hold unto that power.

  35. I am not planning on voting for Obama again, he surely let all of his supporters down. Actually he let down his human supporters and is too often doing the bidding of Corporate donors. It is a big game in Washington. Good cop vs bad cop scenario. When the Democrats had a majority they did nothing yet blamed the Republicans. Now the Republicans have the majority in the house they continue to blame them. The Republicans are a bunch of idiots and religious fanatics who would bring this country to a true Taliban-like theocracy. No doubt about that so the Democrats are the lesser evil but mainstream democrats aren’t that much better. They have no balls and cave to every demand of the lunatics in the Republican party. That being said, I have learned my lesson and the only one I would vote for again is either Kucinich, Feingold or Weiner. Yes Weiner because in spite of his personal transgressions he was one hell of a decent guy with a high regard for the American people. A vote for Hillary would give us more of the same, she is also a corporate whore along with most of congress.

    What we REALLY need is to get rid of them all and replace them with people who are average Americans. I believe this was the idea behind the teaparty movement but they aren’t too bright and allowed themselves to be controlled by the Koch brothers who are amongst the most corrupt in this country. Thus an honorable endeavor ended up being a disaster that is putting representatives in congress that are ripping this country apart. We need intelligent Americans in congress. Instead we are putting people in there who think they can change history and make fools of themselves every time they open their mouths. The intelligence of their followers is equal to theirs, need I say more?

    A test of knowledge would also be a good idea for anyone who wants to represent the American citizens. Just because one goes to college doesn’t mean a thing. Many of our representatives graduated from religious colleges and are dumber then rocks.

    The first action of an intelligent representation of WE THE PEOPLE should be to get rid of the horribly corrupt members of the supreme court, even imposing prison sentences for representing the interest of corporations rather then the citizens they are supposed to protect. I actually would advocate stoning them to death in a public square. I am generally against the death sentence but some of these clowns are clearly so corrupt they don’t deserve the good will of anyone.

  36. Nony, Hillary would be ten times better than Obama for women’s issues and that matters a lot to some of us. Some of the things you stated there completely leave out ANY good she’s done over the last thirty five years and there’s been plenty of that. And btw, I DO consider her a “real” democrat. Certainly more than Obama. I’m not willing to skip over the women’s issues as if they don’t count to please some other ideal that is supposedly more important.

    And up top. No, Hillary did not run to the right of Obama. I don’t recall her campaigning with any gay bashers to gain the “christian” vote.

    You can talk all you want about some third option but, she’s the ONLY one who has any chance of getting the republican Obama out. Stop comparing that “wing” of the democratic party and Bill Clinton’s actions with what HILLARY would do. She is not a rib of Bill. She’s her own person.

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