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Representative Gabrielle Giffords Shot

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords D- Arizona, 8th district

Update 4: Federal judge among victims in Arizona shooting

A federal law enforcement official says that a federal judge was fatally shot in the attack on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona.

UPDATE 3: CNN is showing a Hospital News Conference. Speaker says Congresswoman Giffords is out of surgery – in critical condition – and he is as optimistic as you can get about her chances for recovery.

10 patients were brought into the hospital. 1 dead (a child), 5 in critical condition, 5 in surgery [I don’t know how those numbers work out]

This report did not mention the judge or any other adult deaths.

Update 2: CNN has confirmed that Gabrielle Giffords has died. NYTimes still not confirming. Regardless, the casualty rate appears to be high, as many as 6 others dead.

Fox reporting that Giffords is in critical condition. Hope it’s true that she’s still alive (but consider the source)

CNN now retracting previous report of Giffords’ death. They now say her condition is unclear.

Updates:

The Huffington Post is reporting that 4 people were killed at Giffords’ event and she was among the dead.

Note: There are conflicting reports about whether Giffords is dead or in critical condition.

On a more ominous note, but possibly unrelated note, Giffords was on Sarah Palin’s list of Representatives to turnover in the 2010 midterms due to her vote for the health care reform bill. There are 19 other representatives on that list.

Of course, Palin isn’t the only person who opposes the health care reform act and has called for voters to oust representatives. Let’s not forget that Glenn Beck has a habit of provoking his listeners as well. If Giffords was shot because of something Beck or others have said, we need to immediately call attention to how dangerous it is to be popping off at the mouth without considering the consequences to other people’s physical well being.

**************

This just in from the NYTimes:

A congresswoman from Arizona was shot on Saturday along with several others during at public event at a grocery store in Tuscon, according to her spokesman, C.J. Karamargin. The Tucson Citizen reported that Ms. Giffords had been shot at close range in the head.

Representative Giffords is a pro-choice, pro-gun control Democrat from the Tucson area of Arizona.  She also voted for the stimulus package. It seems clear that she was the target of the shooting even though others were also injured.  I would hate to think that a constituent did this.

Good thoughts to Giffords and her family.  It sounds like she will need all the help she can get.

About Gabrielle Giffords’ life, here is the story of her wedding to Commander Mark Kelly from the NYTimes Vows column.  Very touching.

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268 Responses

  1. I just turned on the TV and saw this. Just now they’re saying unconfirmed reports of fatalities.

    This is bad.

    • Omg, that is so sad. Where did I read a comment about her recently??? I am wracking my brains. Maybe it was some other Rep. whose name starts with a G.

      • CNN is covering it. Very calmly considering.

      • Turns out the comments were about her Obama endorsement early in the primary season. Some people still haven’t forgiven her for that but they seem content to limit their signs of displeasure to yelling at her robo calls.
        She was a new Rep in 2007. Just learning the ropes. Used to comment on NPR about books.

  2. It seems like she would be on TV calming people if she could.

  3. Has there been a Congressperson murdered since Congressman Ryan in 1978?

  4. !!!
    the latest update to wikipedia says she is dead.

    On January 8, 2011, Congresswoman Giffords and at least nine other persons were shot at a “Congress on Your Corner” event at a supermarket in Tucson, Arizona. The suspect was arrested. Giffords died later at University Medical Center in Tucson.

  5. FDL is saying NPR is reporting she has died.

  6. NPR saying she is dead with six others.

  7. It’s been confirmed by several sources that Congresswoman Giffords is among the dead. A horrific way to start the New Year!

  8. I am shocked and saddened at what this world has become. I did not support her but would never wish this on any politician.

    When and how are things ever going to change?

  9. Tucson TV is reporting at 12:45 Tucson time that she is in surgery…..

  10. Tucson TV acknowledges that national media is reporting that she is dead BUT KOLD TV say that they have confirmed with U of A UMC that she is in surgery.

  11. I’ve heard from the hospital she’s in surgery, but survival is unlikely.

    Giffords is not popular with conservatives, but she has also supported cutting Congressional salaries and voted against making Nancy Pelosi the minority leader.

  12. I have to step away for awhile to wash clothes and pack for my trip. If one of the other frontpagers wants to continue to update… {{hint, hint}}

  13. This is so sad.

  14. My sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today’s tragic shooting in Arizona.

    On behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice.

    Sarah Palin

    • thanks myiq2xu… i cant stand it when they all jump on the palin… did you check out hillbuz… they’ve got a huffpost piece … who knows

  15. Go right to Palin and Beck – You folks really see the big picture. NOT. Very tragic day. Palin & Beck, great analysis – thanks.

  16. Boehner, Pelosi Comment on Giffords Shooting

    Speaker John Boehner issued a statement Saturday saying he’s “horrified by the senseless attack” on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot outside a Safeway in Tuscon, Ariz., during an event to talk to her constituents.

    “An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve,” Mr. Boehner said. “Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society. Our prayers are with Congresswoman Giffords, her staff, all who were injured, and their families. This is a sad day for our country.”

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D, Calif.) calls the shooting a “terrible act of violence” and “a national tragedy.”

    “It is with the deepest sadness that we have received word of the attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, members of her staff, and her constituents,” Ms. Pelosi said in a statement. “This terrible act of violence is a national tragedy, and today is a very sad day for our country.

    “My prayers, and the prayers of all Members of Congress, go out to her husband, Captain Mark Kelly, their family, and to all of the staff and others who were victims of this horrible attack.

    “Congresswoman Giffords is a brilliant and courageous Member of Congress, bringing to Washington the views of a new generation of national leaders. It is especially tragic that she was attacked as she was meeting with her constituents whom she serves with such dedication and distinction.”

  17. Well, this is unfortunate. Check the map on this page that in turn came from Sarah Palin’s “we’ve diagnosed the problem” campaign to get rid of 20 legislators. I’m sure she meant by elective means and the target symbols over the legislators’ districts was just a design decision.
    http://www.talksy.com/83221/the-palin-website-with-a-bullseye-over-gabrielle-gifford-s-district-is-down-now

    • One of the problems with Palin’s style is that she uses the gun metaphor so much because her detractors attack her for it. Giffords was on that list because she represents a Republican leaning area and is a member of the blue dog coalition.

      • As of today, I think Palin’s political career is done. She’s not going to run for president. Obama is not going to tiptoe thru the tulips to a second term.
        He’ll probably face someone like Tim Pawlenty and it won’t be a cake walk like he thought.

      • “If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun”

        Maybe we should wait until we know more about who did it and their motives before we decide who to blame.

        When the bombing in OKC took place everybody assumed it was Muslim terrorists but it was a couple white guys that did it.

        • Yes, I agree. I find it a bit ghoulish to be blaming people when it’s not even clear who was injured, who was killed, and what the shooter’s motives were.

          • In Giffords’ case, she’d already been the target of someone with a gun at one of her rallies last year and her office was vandalized. No one is blaming anybody but Beck and Palin’s provocative messaging has got to stop. If the shooter wasn’t responding to their messages, sooner or later, someone else will. Violent mentally disturbed people with guns do not need encouragement.
            Plus, consider that while Tuscon might be moderate place to live, Arizona, Utah and Idaho have a higher than average number of very conservative people. Remember it was Barry Goldwater who said “extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice”. He was from Arizona.

          • In today’s environment, Goldwater would be ranked among the moderate to liberal Republicans (all 5 of them). The Reagan Right pretty much ostracized him.

          • Hillary was a Goldwater Girl before she became a Democrat.

          • Giffords was a registered Republican until she became a Democrat in 2000 and won her first election to the Arizona House.

    • Someone on Facebook posted a similar map from the DLC during W’s years which had bull’s eye marks instead of cross hairs.

  18. the target symbols over the legislators’ districts was just a design decision
    *********
    I am sure that the image of a “Reticule” over the targeted states was design decision and come close to yelling “fire” in a theater to the “targeted” audience.

  19. Latest is that Giffords has a good chance of pulling through. Unfortunately, a federal judge and others are dead. The shooter has a police record.

  20. Judge John Roll as killed in this attack. Reports are that a 21 year old did it.

  21. I watched it on MSNBC. No link.

  22. {just a luker}

    Kids name according to KOLD local station:

    Jared Loughner

  23. Really? Folks, there are many kinds of “targets”
    You can be a “target audience”. That’s a good thing.

    I might target a weight I want to hit on a weight loss regimen.
    I shop at that store ( Target) with the red bulls-eye as a logo and I am pretty sure they don’t mean I am supposed to shoot at the store.
    Geesh. I don’t like guns , nor do I like Ms Palin’s gun references and her shooting, but she did not
    call for anyone to go shooting anything.
    Let’s keep some perspective on these things.

    • I believe that Glenn Beck has called for violence on occasion. It’s the company you keep.
      Hey, I might not like her policies but I’ve defended the people who support her. She’s not stupid. But she has to decide if she wants to be a politician or a movement leader or a celebrity and check who she is hanging out with.

      • Beck may call people evil or domestic terrorists, but on what occasion did he called for violent action?

        • “I’m thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I’m wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. … No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out. Is this wrong?” -musing about what he would do for $50 million

          That’s just the tip of the iceberg. I’m sure ice read quotes about his very negative opinion of progressives.
          You are fooling yourself if you think Beck is a benevolent dolt with the bad habit of saying things ge does not mean. It is my experience that when someone tells you stuff like this, they either mean it or they want you to think they do. Either way, it’s not good. Beck is playing a very dangerous game.
          Loil, I’m not walking a fine line here trying to be fair to the guy. He doesn’t deserve fairness any more than someone who we know to have violated societal norms of rational behavior. Glenn Beck is an ambitious predator of vulnerable Americans. I will not lie about that.
          There are plenty more outrageous quotes from Glenn, I’ll try to track more down for you. But I have to get ready for a flight tomorrow morning so there’s a limit to how much time I can dedicate to this.

        • Yes, you are being legalistic. I’m sure that the vast majority of his listeners are not lawyers and fail to see the distinction.

          • When’s the last time you watched Ed Schultz on MSNBC?

            Maybe you should.

          • I don’t get my news from television these days, but if I were, I would watch Fox before MSNBC and CNN for closest approximation to accuracy, and I would avoid the primetime opinion bloviators on all channels.

          • Going to Faux Noise, or ANY Corporate Media organization, for accuracy is like going to Elmer Fudd for speech lessons. 🙄

          • I’d probably go to them before I’d go to wikileaks or to some other group purposely cut off from mainstream society.

    • I know that the left will start screaming about Palin and I am tired of the knee jerk stupidity. On the other hand, though I am a liberal Democrat, I like guns, I target shoot and I carry a gun for self defense. Where I live it is not safe to enter the house alone with out a gun. We are way back in the woods and there are home invasion robberies several times a year.
      I also think hunting is a lot more humane than eating creatures that live in misery in pens and cages only to be led to slaughter. A deer lives in the woods fields and one day it is shot and never knows the difference.
      But I am an exception not the rule when it comes to guns and gun law.
      Look for the blame Palin games to start.

  24. Jared Laughner, Gabrielle Giffords Shooter

    Jared Laughner, the man who shot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), was described by eyewitnesses as a young white man who looked like a “fringe character.”

    Laughner shot Giffords and 12 others at a public event at a Safeway grocery store in Tucscon. He reportedly shot the congresswoman “point blank” in the head and may have come from inside the store. After shooting Giffords, he allegedly fired 20-30 rounds and hit “a number of people,” including a child. He attempted to flee after running out of ammunition and was tackled by one of Giffords’ staffers.

    Eyewitnesses have described Laughner as “young, mid-to-late 20s, white, clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing.”

    He was arrested upon arrival of the sheriff’s department.

    • Doen’t this imply that the weapon he used was not “usual”. I want to say an automatic weapon, but that’s not exactly what I mean….something that would shoot a lot of rounds all at once?

    • 4:03 PM ET Surgeon ‘Very Optimistic’ About Giffords, One Dead, Five Critical

      A surgeon is “very optimistic” about Rep. Giffords. He adds that she was shot in the head “through and through.”

      “We cannot tell what kind of recovery but I’m about as optimistic as it can get in this situation.”

      He also says that there are 10 patients from the shooting, one has died, five are in critical condition. The dead patient was a child — the only one that came to the hospital.

    • Sounds like a Goth

  25. CNN now saying just one person has died — a child!!!!!!!!!

    Others injured and/or in surgery. The congresswoman is responsive.

    djmm

    • That’s from the report myiq quoted above. But, that hospital just got 10 victims — the other 8-12 victims must have gone to another hospital (or none)

      ***********

      CNN Just confirmed that the judge was killed today.

    • That’s the horrific part of this. A kid just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yesterday she was probably singing Firework by Katy Perry. Today she is an ember.

  26. For those so quick to point fingers as to who is responsible for this tragedy, you might consider waiting to hear about the shooter. In the meantime, you might want to pop over to Hillbuzz where they have screen grabs of a Daily Kos diary from yesterday by someone raving that this woman was DEAD to him/her, just raving about it because she voted against Pelosi. You might want to just wait for the facts because this rush to judgment doesn’t do our society any good and reveals more about your biases than it does about the criminal who committed this atrocity. Lets see a diary about the filth that passes for discourse at Daily Kos and the hate and violence that is called for by so called tolerant liberals.

    • We don’t even know for sure that Giffords was his real target. Maybe he had a grudge against the judge who was shot.

      • Or maybe his ex was in the crowd or something — that would be very typical, actually, of domestic violence.

      • I thought that too..

      • He shot her first.
        It wasn’t the first time someone showed up at one of her rallies with a gun.
        Her office was vandalized last year.
        I think she was his primary target. Who knows why he shot the others. Sirhan Sirhan kept shooting too after he shot Robert Kennedy.
        And let’s not forget that Hillary’s offices were also vandalized on occasion. Go ahead and tell me that was random too.

    • If that’s the guy he sure doesn’t sound like a typical Palin fan.

      • This fellow smells more off than year-old eggs. If it’s him I’m inclined towards ‘lone crazy.’ But we’ll see once more information comes out.

      • Kinda creepy, that was…no, not a Palin follower…

    • He’s nuts. Read his manifesto and you know he’s not all there.

      • From the link:

        I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

        No Ayn Rand or any of the other wingnut scriptures

        • His last slide says” ,,,in a few days, you know…”

          I wonder if that was a typo as in “in a few days you’ll know…”

          This was very recently posted by him on YouTube

        • Notice it says “I had favorite books.” Is that stuff he used to like?

          His videos mention “unconstitutional” a lot. One also seems to say he was kicked out of school:

          “If the police remove you from the educational facility for talking then removing you from the educational facility for talking is unconstitutional in the United States. The police remove you from the educational facility for talking. Thus, removing you from the educational facility for talking is unconstitutional in the United States. This situation is fraud because the police are unconstitutional!

          Every police officer in the United States as of now is unconstitutionally working. Pima Community College police are police in the United States. Therefore, Pima Community College police are unconstitutionally working. The police are unconstitutionally working!”

        • Even well read people can be batshit nuts. Remember, the unibomber was a mathematical genius.

        • We the Living is Ayn Rand.

          djmm

        • We the Living is Rand..

        • Except for Mein Kamp, apparently.

    • Here is his self-made video:

    • Before he spends any more time ranting about grammar and illiteracy, he sure needs to review those capitalization rules.

  27. Looking around the blogosphere, I’m amazed at the number of people and groups who are eager to politicise this tradegy already. This took place six hours ago. Let the police do their job. This is gut wrenching tragic and people are understandably shocked and angry. But our minds and prayers should be with the victims and their families. There will be time for politics and incriminations later.

    • I agree Three.

      There is no way of knowing why this nutcase went for this congressperson. Or if he really did.

      It is just as irrational to blame Palin as it is to blame Kos. And… why mention Beck? What has he got to do with it. (Not that I like or care about him)

      WTF has happened to reason in this country?

    • yup. I’m really rather shocked at how many have blamed “wingnuts” or Palin or “teapartiers”… or blaming Kos…

      it’s the same fear mongering that is pressed for Muslims…

      really. what have we become?

      • I do blame Glenn beck and Palin by extension. They’re careless. Do I know if they had anything to do with this latest incident? No. But Giffords had been the subject of more than one violent incident. Her office was vandalized. Someone else showed up at one of her rallies with a gun in 2009. Surprised she doesn’t wear a bullet proof vest all the time, though that wasn’t going to help her head.
        No one is jumping to conclusions except this one: you never know what crazy nutcase might take it into his head to bomb an abortion clinic or take someone out based on what you say. Use your megaphone wisely.
        The best outcome would be for the public to turn on Beck but it’s pretty hopeless if people on this board don’t get it.

        • Beck and Palin both are guilty (as are many others) of getting people mobilized using anger rather than solutions. So, their followers are looking for revenge and feel the only solution is to eliminate those they don’t agree with. Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, et al use this very dangerous tactic to gain support. It’s sad, and IMHO, it’s a greater threat to this country than the so-called terrorists. But, we will continue to enhance the security check points at the airports and let these dangerous mouths keep collecting souls.

    • However, over the years there have been plenty of terrorist-type attacks on abortion clinics, federal buildings and left-leaning politically active people.

      We should restrain ourselves from wild speculation – but It is easy to understand why the narrative goes there.

  28. http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/f/0/3L1lsLU-kUw

    This is listed on his YouTube post as one of his favorites…

    • This video was shot in the Tucson area – look through it and you’ll see some strangely garbed figure that comes into the picture. Very creepy – not sure I can make out the lyrics.

      • It’s “Let the Bodies Hit the Floor” by Drowning Pool

        Lyrics here

        No wingnut Palin/Beck supporter is gonna burn an American flag.

        • Looks like the guy has been insane for at least 3 weeks. But if I was gonna guess what part of the political spectrum this guy might have come from it’d be one of the extreme sects of the libertarian party .

          • Libertarians read Rand, not Marx

          • gawker has the scoop:
            Catie Parker claims to have been in a band with Loughner, as well as his high school and college classmate.

            As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal and oddly upsessed with the 2012 prophecy
            http://gawker.com/5728605/arizona-shooter-explained-mind-control-on-youtube

            His rantings included money backed by gold or silver and anti-cops so I went with libertarian.

          • Jeez, he sounds sounds like my mother. I wouldn’t jump to conclusions that Foxesque political word salad didn’t have something to do with it. The 2012 eschatology thing is a dead giveaway. My mom is also paranoid as all get out about 2012 and believes all kinds of conspiracy crap. Even her sister told her to lay off the right wing noise machine for awhile.
            Some people are vulnerable.

          • I’d say he was just your run of the mill complete whack job. I don’t think his motivations were political. Esp. if he’s talking about mind control and end of the world stuff.

          • Sadly, “run of the mill complete whack job” is not an oxymoron in this country.

          • And why are all the moron’s riding oxen anyway?

          • Tar and Feathers, that site you posted below, says he hated the Congresswoman because he asked her a question in 2007 and thought her answer unintelligent.

            It also says he was a “pothead” and dropped out of school in 2006 after alcohol poisoning.

            Weird.

            Myiq, he might be libertarian: We the Living was one of Rand’s first books. I am surprised he did not lit Anthem. But most of the books he listed are favorites of mine as well, though there are a few I have never read and never felt a desire to. (I always thought Mein Kamp might be like wading through a sewer. I just can’t do it.)

            Congresswoman Bachman, Glen Beck and Governor Palin have evidenced extraordinarily bad judgment. I hope they are ashamed of themselves. Let’s hope they all change their tunes.

            djmm

          • ok, I’m going to take a wild guess and say that he is experiencing some psychotic, perhaps schizophrenic, episode like the guy who killed all those people at Virginia tech a few years ago. IMHO, it behooves politicians like Palin and loud mouth idiots like beck to carefully examine what they say or put on maps. Actually, all politicians should be careful about the symbols they use. Giffords last election was hotly contested and it wasn’t pretty.

        • Mebbe not but you don’t have to be a follower to be inspired by one of her maps.

  29. From what I see, it sounds like he’s a complete nut job. Unrelated to politics at all. Or any border issues (some have suspected that), or really anything. It’s not obvious at all that he even knew what the event was about and who he shot.

  30. “Michelle Bachman; “We’re going to change America by either the ballot box or the bullet box”.

  31. its the rhetoric that is dangerous. There are so many mentally unbalanced people in this country. From Obama’s statement to Bachman’s. Doesn’t matter the political affiliation, words do matter.

    • I agree. Crazy people with guns do not need encouragement.

    • We live in a violent culture with little protection for the innocent or services available to the mentally unstable. I travel a lot and work with other countries. People in other developed countries with strict gun laws simply cannot understand the way the U.S. works and how guns can be so easily accessible here. I have lived in other developed countries and it’s like a weight is lifted off your shoulders to be able to walk the streets and feel safe knowing that a random person isn’t as likely to gun you down as it is in the U.S. In the U.S., you just have to cross your fingers that you don’t cross a maniac with a loaded weapon the next time you make a trip to school, the mall, the grocery store, a political event, or anywhere else where in other countries these fears are practically nonexistent.

  32. so many nuts so few trees!!!!!!!

  33. Just saw an interview of Gabrielle just from yesterday. She was formerly a Republican and is now a blue dog democrat. She’s been pushing for a pay cut for congress members.

    Having said that, I don’t think this shooter had any idea about her or her politics. In fact it looks like from his sites, before they were taken down, hinted that he was going to do something some days ago. Gabrielle only organized her event the night before. So it seems clear he did not plan his killing spree around her.

    There are also reports that he was, evil of all evils, an atheist, and religion was what this was all about. Needless to say, any conjectures are silly as he was most likely a few cards short of a deck. Or maybe 51 cards short of a deck.

  34. FYI: Gabrielle’s husband is the NASA commander who is scheduled to pilot the last shuttle mission scheduled for April. And the husband’s twin brother is currently on board the space station.

  35. Sounds like a total wackadoodle from what I am reading about his youtubes, etc but apparently since the Congresswoman is a democrat, the left blames the right. I am sure if she were rep. the right would blame the left. This even before anyone even knew for sure who was shot or by whom. Motive and blame though seems certain to many, even if there are little verified facts. Even in tragedy like this people cannot simply grieve and pray and hope for the survivors.

    • Srsly. I am going to have to avoid political blogs for the next few days or weeks because I can’t stand this.

      • Having said that, I do want people not to overlook the obvious — that once again, an angry and disturbed white male has vented his rage on a woman in a position of power. It’s such a common theme we never even recognize it anymore.

        • How is that any different than assuming it was political? I’m not sure he even knew who she was (i.e., a person of power). And given his state of mind, I’m not completely sure he had the wits about him to make out the gender difference. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t what you said. But we don’t know.

          • I’m not speaking of motivation but describing their positions in society.

          • …vented his rage on is all about motivation. Who knows if there was any rage at all.

          • Now I’m being picky. Point taken.

          • oookay … could be a cold calculated assassination, that’s possible too…

          • Dandy, go out and read some of the other sites with information on this. He did know who she was. He met her in the past. Had very unkind things to say about her.

            You mention his state of mind. It appears he had a YouTube file for all to see. With how much surveillance the gov’t is supposedly doing on the people of this country, how was he missed? Too much emphasis on x-raying airline passengers?

          • I did look through his sites. And yes, noticed that he did indeed know who she was and appeared to target her. Since he appears pretty liberal in some of his rants, if it were all about politics I’d assume he thought she wasn’t liberal enough. But I suspect it’s not really about politics per se (party politics that is), but some other government mind control crazy shit. I’m sure more will come out.

  36. Just because this guy is nuts and this shooting may not have been political or related to politicians or pundits or big orange bloggers and their provocative speech that could be interpreted as wanting someone harmed, those people should knock that shit off. Unless of course they really want people killed like Beck and some Obots seem to.

    • How can it possibly NOT be political? He targeted a political event, and went after the key political figure there. I read one eye witness account that said he walked straight up to Gabrielle, shot her in the head and then turned the gun on others.

      But, there are so many elements within the political system, narrowing it down to exactly what about it caused this reaction we may never get a real answer.

  37. During the his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.

    source:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

    ~~~~~~~~~

    You used to be able to find all kinds of “kill a liberal” type bumper stickers on the right wing blogs. Not sure if CafePress and the others still leave those up while they take the Mohammed ones down.

    • I remember some really violent suggestions against HRC on Obama’s campaign web site, too.

      • I remember Olberman–on public tv—suggesting someone take her into a room and only one comes out.

        It’s when I stopped watching him.

  38. I’m surprised to see this site politicizing a human tragedy. It’s a disappointment.

    • “This site” is merely reporting on the story. The individuals here have differing opinions.

    • Yes, it’s a shame we can’t have a vibrant discussion without someone tut-tutting about the motivations of the site.
      Giffords is a politician. It should be unsurprising that politics and motivation are debated.

      • You are not “debating” politics, you are politicizing a horrific attack.

        • She was questioning whether it was politically related and if so, in what way.

          • she “by extension” blames the idiot rantings of glenn beck and sarah palin for this murderous rampage which was committed by someone none of us so far really know anything about. there does not seem to be any sense of questioning in her posts. It’s just surprising to see it.

          • The first rule of blogging is “It would be irresponsible not to speculate.”

          • I am a firstborn. I am all about responsibility. It turns out that the shooter may not have acts alone. Pima County police are looking for a second suspect. They are sure that Giffords was the target.
            That changes things, doesn’t it?
            Not so simple anymore.

        • We are politicizing nothing. We are just pointing out that palin and beck have been very careless. Palin’s map with the target on giffords district is a matter of record. Beck has made no secret of his violent hatred of progressives. If there is vitriol and that vitriol leads to an unstable individual gunning down an abortion doctor or a representative, shouldn’t we discuss it? Hey, I’ll be the first to take Democrats to task if they pull that kind of shit but they don’t, or it is much more rare. The crazy, provocative vitriol comes primarily from the left. You may call it politicizing. I don’t.
          Your discomfort had been noted, but it won’t stop us from discussing it in the manner we choose.

    • I agree. Although most posters here don’t seem to be doing that, those few that are, well I am frankly quite surprised, I guess I expected a more reasoned response on this site.

      • I’m surprised that you’re surprised.

      • What would have been a more reasoned response? Expressions of concern and sympathy? Yes, we are deeply saddened, horrified and concerned with the health and well being of ALL of the survivors.
        But it wouldn’t be realistic for readers to expect us to stop speculating. It’s clearly not al qaeda’s fault. The gunman was targeting her specifically.
        What is it that bothers you so much about speculation as to whether Palin’s map had anything to do with it? We aren’t accusing her of anything except gross irresponsibility. Why should that bother you so much? Even if no one had been shot, I would have said that the map was very I’ll advised and potentially dangerous. But the right have been like this for more than a decade. Their fury at the rest of us who simply don’t agree with them is notorious. Some people on the right who listen to Rush and Glenn absolutely hate us and wish us dead.
        I’m not saying the gunman, or gunmen in this case had been provoked by right wingers but we need to face up to the possibility that this is one of the causes.
        I’m surprised that you’re so distressed. I thought you were made of more resilient stuff.

  39. The post itself politicizes the event.
    You can mock me if you like but a deranged individual who’s motivations are completely unknown (if they even can be known) murdered people and the post links it to political parties.
    That is knee jerk, reactionary, tribal and exactly what I thought we were opposed to.

    • If a woman is murdered it is not unreasonable to suspect her husband or boyfriend.

      Considering everything that has gone on it was not unreasonable for RD and others to suspect that the guy who shot Giffords was a wingnut.

      We say what we think. Sometimes we’re wrong, but we’re not gonna change our ways.

    • The exact motivation is unknown. But, there really is no way to eliminate the fact that it was something inside the arena of political. There is no question who the targets were and that he went to the event specifically intending to shoot her.

    • What worries me about the political implications of blaming this on the opposition is that it gives the admin a perfect excuse to impose draconian police-state measures.
      I have seen this in my home country — some crazy explodes a molotov at an incumbent rally, and it’s hello martial law.
      Shock Doctrine.

    • On The contrary, your response seems to be the knee-jerk reactionary one.
      I am not a palin supporter or a tea partier and my disgust with beck is well known. I think the right wing rhetoric is dangerous and eventually was going to lead to an incident just like this one,
      This is a political site. We never liked the way that palin was dehumanized by the left, mostly because the left is missing the point and doing itself no favors. But that doesn’t mean we approve of what people like palin do.
      She is responsible for her actions. If the shooter wasn’t influenced by them that doesn’t absolve her of the responsibility to take that map down or never put it up in the first place.

      • You’re drawing conclusions and making connections with ZERO evidence or information. That is knee jerk. But it’s your site and you can say up is down if you like. Thank you for being a refuge in the past. I won’t let the door hit me on the way out.

        • This blog has been here for three years. We’ve never apologized for our opinions and we’re not gonna start now.

          I’m sick and tired of people who like us until we disagree about something and then it’s GBCW

          Are you gonna leave Corrente too? Is there ANY lefty blog that meets your lofty standards?

          BTW – You can see from this thread that I don’t agree with RD

          You don’t see me calling her names then boo-hooing and running away do you?

        • Walking out seems like a dramatic over-reaction to me. You can’t possibly believe that Riverdaughter is a refuge? Do you?

          ’cause she was never that.

          • This blog was created as a refuge, not an echo-chamber. It’s a place where people can feel safe airing differing opinions.

          • That’s what I meant. RD doesn’t just stand around patting people on the head and nodding.

          • yes. i thought there was more objectivity and less bullying. I make a comment that i’m disappointed in the shallow response to the tragedy and I get more shallow and quite frankly, mean spirited responses.

          • I heard you say you were leaving. I must have misunderstood. I’m glad about that.

        • Excuse me, but where did I draw any conclusions??? I am speculating as to why a person would specifically gun down this particular congressman and lo and behold, Sarah Palin has a map with a target on giffords’ district.
          You are completely unrealistic if you think I’m going to just ignore that. No one in their right mind wouldn’t wonder if there was a connection. That’s not the same as making an accusation.
          But even if that map had NOTHING to do with it, it was a very irresponsible thing to do. The least palin is responsible for is gross negligence for the safety of people on that list even if nothing happened to them. There are other ways of getting your point across without using gun metaphors.
          If I were you, I’d get used to the speculation because I predict there will be an awful lot of it in the next couple of days. And the worst of it won’t be coming from this site. We’re pretty damned civilized in comparison.

        • Buh bye.

  40. Man linked to Giffords shooting called ‘very disturbed’

    The man linked to the shooting today of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others is 22-year-old Jared Lee Loughner, the Associated Press reported.

    Police have surrounded a house at 7700 N. Soledad Ave., which is the address listed by a man with the same name on a variety of online accounts and in the volunteer registry for the 2010 Tucson Festival of Books. The home is near West Magee Road and North Thornydale Road on the northwest side, about five miles from the shooting scene.

    A former classmate of Loughner at Pima Community College said he was “obviously very disturbed.”

    “He disrupted class frequently with nonsensical outbursts,” said Lynda Sorenson, who took a math class with Loughner last summer at Pima Community College’s Northwest campus.

    Sorenson doesn’t recall if he ever made any threats or uttered political statements but he was very disruptive, she said. He was asked to leave the pre-algebra class several times and eventually was barred from class, said Sorenson, a Tucson resident.

    MySpace, YouTube and Facebook accounts maintained by Loughner suggest he has spent most of his life on the northwest side: His profile says he attended Thornydale Elementary, Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View High School and Pima Community College.

    The online accounts also contain bizarre discussions of a new currency and literacy, as well as threatening and despairing messages.

    “WOW! I’m glad i didn’t kill myself. I’ll see you on National T.v.! This is foreshadow …. why doesn’t anyone talk to me?..” he posted on MySpace Dec. 14.

    On Dec. 13, he wrote: “I don’t feel good: I’m ready to kill a police officer! I can say it.”

    In a posting on YouTube, Loughner wrote repeatedly about a new currency.

    “I’m thinking of creating a new currency,” he wrote. “Therefore, I’m thinking of a design for my new coins size, shape, color, material, and image to start a new money system.”

    • I also read a series of tweets between people who knew him personally. One said that he was a great guy who changed after he had experienced alcohol poisoning in college.

  41. Giffords, a moderate “Blue Dog” Democrat and gun rights advocate who in November eked out a win for a third term over Tea Party-backed Republican Jesse Kelly, underwent surgery at University Medical Center in Tucson. Hospital Director Pete Rhee said that a bullet had entered and exited the congresswoman’s head, but that he was as “optimistic” as he could be in the situation.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/01/08/132764367/congresswoman-shot-in-arizona?sc=tw&cc=share

    Interesting, the congresswoman was a gun advocate. It’s unfortunate no one there was armed other than the shooter.

    • If she survives, maybe she will change her views on gun control. Sadly, this tragic event shows that city dwellers usually do not carry a gun unless they are intending to use it on someone. Senseless tragedy.

  42. WOAH! CNN IS REPORTING THAT THE SHOOTER DID NOT ACT ALONE.

    • Crap. If true, that changes everything.

    • yea i just saw that to RD

    • Well, I guess that settles it…Sarah Palin was indeed one of the shooters (JUST KIDDING–but you would certainly think so by the $hit being spewed all over the blogs and social media right now by “progressives”).

      • I think people who accuse palin of guilt are being too hasty. She isn’t responsible for what other people do. And we don’t know yet if her map had anything to do with this shooting.
        Nevertheless, that map was really irresponsible and she shouldn’t have EVER put something like that up, not with all the dangerous innuendos by right wing noise machines.
        I’m trying to be fair to her without absolving her of doing something potentially very dangerous.

        • Just taking her “target” graphic at face value–if today’s horrific shooting had not taken place–would we still be saying how “potentially very dangerous” it was? Would anyone have even made a big deal out of it? Is it made worse perhaps by her very public use of guns in her personal life? Could the graphic have just been pointing out that these certain legislators should be “targeted” to be voted out?

          • I didn’t even know it existed. But yes, if I had seen that, I would have said it was grossly irresponsible and would have wanted her to take it down. But My interest in palin ended a loooooong time ago. She was a wild card in 2008, charismatic and entertaining. But her personal principles never appealed to me and after she joined up with beck and the tea party movement, she became the opposition in a very real way.
            Yes, if I had known of the map, I would not have approved. My feeling would be exactly the same, regardless of the shooting. Now, it will be very difficult for her to extricate herself from being tied to it, even if it turns out that the mP had nothing to do with it. Bad all around but we have to live with the choices we make.

          • I’ve defended Palin on many an occasion but that “crosshairs” map was beyond the pale and I said so at the time. It’s just the sort of thing that gives truly crazy people an idea. Whether it did in this case is anyone’s guess but, in and of itself, it was a truly stupid and irresponsible thing to do.

            I was no happier with Obama’s “get in their face” rhetoric in NV. Politicians are always talking about civility but few of them display any.

        • Here’s a DLC map using bullseye symbols in the same context
          http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647

  43. but right now they are just saying hes a person of intrest

  44. I was glad to hear that the initial reports [confirmed though they were] were wrong and the Congresswoman survived the shooting and the subsequent surgery. But before we hop on the optimism wagon [and I’m a born optimist myself], Congresswoman Giffords needs to regain consciousness. Then and only then can any real evalution occur. A gunshot wound to the head is a traumatic injury and even in the best case scenario, recovery and rehab is long and arduous. Been there, done that.

    My prayers go out to all the victims and their families. And if there’s another perpetrator/accomplice, I hope he’s caught toute suite. The shooter’s online rants are deranged and confused, at best. I understand the possible accomplice is an older man, 50ish. And that Giffords’ office was compromised and evacuated because of a strange package.

    Dangerous times we’re living in!

  45. Violent rhetoricc – remember this?
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/58-kill-hillary-groups-on-facebook/
    These groups were not from the right

  46. My only question is this, when you heard that a US Congressperson had been shot in the head in Arizonza, did it ever occur to you that he/she was a Republican?
    Of course not.
    Where the hell is Govenor Brewer? Has she made a statement?
    Remeber what a strong presence the Governor of Oklahoma was after the Murrah bomb?
    I thought he might be the next President.
    Where’s Brewer?

    • Brewer made a pretty long statement … she might have been rattled. Every reference to Giffords was in the past tense. It wasn’t a Rallying speech. It was similar to Obama’s statement.

      • I didn’t see her on television, but everything she says is rattled.

      • I saw Brewer’s statement. She did a great job. I also saw Obama, he clearly didn’t give a shit. What a contrast. And keep in mind, I think Brewer is a horrible, dangerous person as a politician.

        • Gov. Brewer spoke with emotion. The President sounded like Mr. Spock as usual.

          djmm

          • That’s an insult to Spock.

          • I thought so, too. I couldn’t help but compare it to Clinton’s response to any tragedy. People make fun of his “I feel your pain” rhetoric but empathy is a part and parcel of a true leader.

          • True, Dandy Tiger! My apologies. My point was that his style is very different from, say, President Clinton. Even President Reagan would show emotion.

            djmm

          • Yea, we don’t really get the warm and fuzzies from Obama. A bit of a cold fish as they say.

  47. I really love America, but during tragedies like this I am relieved to be Australian, despite the some time laconic attitude towards politics and politicians the debate within this country rarely gets to a point where our political leaders live in constant fear of physical acts of violence. http://danieljames.com.au/political-vitriol

  48. One thing we can count on is that 0bama will try and use this to make himself “relevant”. I am sure he (his aides) are studying Clinton’s response to Okla bombing to see how to use this to his advantage. Big diversion is welcome to these fools.. He can attack the right all the while moving ever closer to the right. It is the perfect storm for us. Squeezed to the max financially, emotionally, and physically. It will be perfect. Blame the right and tack to the right. Perfect cover for his perfidy. We are so f…ed!

  49. Oh god, a bunch of idiots in the MSM are actually saying Palin is partly responsible. Of course she was and is irresponsible for the map. But it’s been established the killer was liberal. Which means if he was getting his death threat motivations from outside, it more likely would have been places like DKos that had posts about Giffords being dead to them (for the anti Pelosi vote) among other things.

    Even if he targeted the congresswoman, that doesn’t mean it was politically motivated. I doubt he was that cogent about such things.

  50. Here’s my new theory. And it’s just as likely any. I think he targeted Giffords and the others precisely because they were the ones with the flying dauphins above their heads. In other words, it’s pretty likely he was batshit.

  51. It’s been established the shooter was a liberal???
    As I said, when you heard that an Arizonan Congresswoman had been shot in the head, did it occur to you that she was a Republican?
    If Brewer’s statement was great, it was a first.
    Enough of the he said/she said, or both parties are just as bad.
    The new Democrats are awful but the new Republicans are in league with the devil.

    • We suspect he was liberal because he had some pretty liberal rants and his favorite book list was pretty liberal. but we don’t know for sure. He could have put those up to pretend he was liberal I guess.

      I knew Giffords used to be a Republican and was now a blue dog Democrat (her own language).

      Brewer showed herself to be a human first. Obama, not so much. I agree, she’s really bad for this country. But Republicans are not in league with the devil any more than Obama is. Both parties mostly work for the same people. The ones that give them money. I don’t like that. And I think they’re doing horrible short-sighted things. But I don’t’ think most of them are evil.

      • How do we get publicly funded elections and controls on bullet purchasing equivalent to buying Dudafed over the counter?

        • Duh, Sudafed. I was told I had to turn over an ID and sign for a box because I might be using it to make meth. That was the last box I bought.
          Started using a neti pot with salt water, that I believe is legal and not too eccentric in 2011.

      • His rants didn’t look particularly liberal to me. Insofar as they could be characterized at all, they looked like word salad.

        On the other hand, he seems to have been taking developmental (formerly remedial) courses at Pima CC, and I kid you not, I have had the displeasure of marking up and grading papers by perfectly sane and pleasant but linguistically inept students that didn’t read much differently.

  52. The contortions on the right wing blogs tonight have been amazing, A point of brain-racking on my part– can anyone name some liberal assassins? I’m having no luck coming up with a list for my right wing friends who say “there have been plenty of leftist killers in ‘Merica.” Kinda like looking for the Rapture in the Bible.

    • Oswald was allegedly a communist. I doubt anyone would consider Squeaky Fromme a conservative.

      William Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn were lefty terrorists.

      • myiq2xu….thanks for the memories…aghaaaaa
        i think its time for a nice single malt…
        cheers

  53. I wonder what Martin Scorsese is thinking right now. Why hasn’t anyone mentioned Travis Bickles? Are we no longer capable of imagining such complex figures, in the midst of narrative bombardment? The NYTimes was the first to insinuate that Palin’s target map was a motivating factor, which then spread like wildfire over the internet before entering the cable news feedback loop, yet no one questions the motives of the NYTimes. Strange times…

  54. Sarah Palin Has NOT Deleted ‘Reload’ Tweet Or Facebook Note

    There appears to be a great deal of confusion on Twitter regarding whether Sarah Palin has deleted her original ‘Don’t Retreat, RELOAD’ tweet and corresponding Facebook note, the latter of which includes a crosshairs map of Dem districts including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

    To be clear: She had deleted neither.

    Her ‘Reload’ tweet is still in her feed, and the Facebook note can be found here.

    Furthermore, Rebecca Mansour, founder of Conservatives4Palin.com, notes that the Take Back the Twenty site, which some people have noted has been scrubbed of the crosshairs map and mention of Gifford, is “no longer relevant now that the election is over.”

  55. Look if you can handle the crap, but Olbermann did a special commentary about how violence and inciting it has no place in a democracy. He does mention his own part about Hillary during the Dem primaries, and sort of apologizes, but he makes it clear that he doesn’t believe he really suggested a threat. He still is very political (mentioning target imagery from Palin but not DLC e.g.). Be warned, still the same gasbag as always.

  56. I’m waiting form someone to say it was all the fault of violent video games. You know it’s coming…

  57. I clearly have too many progressive friends on facebook. If I hadn’t read anything else today but their posts and comments, I would think Sarah Palin is leading a dangerous conspiracy movement that is literally shooting down liberals across the country.

  58. You know, blaming Sarah Palin for having a map with targets on it is a little bit beyond the pale. Both parties have been using those maps for years to target states they want to work on. Here is one on the DLC website:

    http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

    I have to question this knee jerk reaction to somehow blame everything on Sarah Palin or the Tea Party. There is really hateful rhetoric coming from both sides of the political spectrum. But it would be nice to get facts before trying to assess blame. The more that comes out about this nut job, the more it looks like he actually came from the left. I was too horrified at all the hate that came from the left against Hillary to any longer believe that hate only comes from the right. There are extremists and haters and loons on both sides, unfortunately.

    • Did we *blame* her? Where does it say we blame her for anything except an irresponsible map?

    • How often do the left-wing “extremists and haters and loons” resort to violence?

      Proof, please?

      Don’t hand me that crap about “he came from the left”. You’re swallowing the right-wing media spin. The RW KNOWS the blood of the victims lies wet on their hands, and they are trying to spin their way out of it. Alas, given their stranglehold on public discourse, they will probably succeed.

        • Whaaa? When did this happen? 😕

          If this be a real video, maybe I should just start looking for another country to move to.

          • The video was made during the 2008 election.

            It’s obviously fake.

          • Myiq, it is a measure of how messed-up this country’s politics have become that I was not sure it was fake.

            I distrust the Corporate Media so intensely that I really only pay attention to weather reports and some sports news now. This means I could have missed this, had it been real.

            Does anyone know of a general news site that is NOT tainted with pro-plutocratic, right-wing bias the way the Corporate Media [not just Faux Noise by any means] is tainted, from which I could get news?

  59. @joanwalsh: RT @atrios: the real victim today is sarah palin.

    Really? Not the six dead including a 9 year old girl, or the 12 others in the hospital. Narrow minded opportunistic pricks. What’s happened to liberals in this country.

    • They are using the victims as a political opportunity to put the final nail in Palin’s political coffin. Yes, the map was irresponsible but from what I’ve heard, the shooter was not a Palin or Tea Party supporter. More information is sure to come out next week and maybe we can finally learn the shooter’s motives. At this point, I think it is wrong to blame anyone than the shooter(s) for this massacre.

      • Amen. They are responding politically to these deaths—using them, to get a narrative out to the public , without waiting for more information or facts.

        It’ll backfire with Peoria, just like the hateful rhetoric about Tea Partiers did.

        Stupid, stupid, stupid.

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