• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    William on D-Day -1
    William on Steve Garvey Running for U.S.…
    jmac on Steve Garvey Running for U.S.…
    William on Steve Garvey Running for U.S.…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on D-Day -1
    thewizardofroz on Steve Garvey Running for U.S.…
    William on Steve Garvey Running for U.S.…
    thewizardofroz on Steve Garvey Running for U.S.…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Shiny Happy People
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Shiny Happy People
    riverdaughter on Shiny Happy People
    riverdaughter on Shiny Happy People
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Shiny Happy People
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Shiny Happy People
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Shiny Happy People
  • Categories

  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

    December 2010
    S M T W T F S
  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

    • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.
  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

  • Top Posts

NYT concedes the case against Assange “less flawed” than his supporters have claimed (UPDATED)

Swedish Police Report Details Case Against Assange

Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks who was released from a British jail late last week, is facing a new challenge: the leak of a 68-page confidential Swedish police report that sheds new light on the allegations of sexual misconduct that led to Mr. Assange’s legal troubles.


But the details in the police report and dozens of interviews in recent months with people in Sweden linked to the case suggest that the Swedish case could be less flawed than Mr. Assange’s supporters have claimed. As for the prosecutors’ actions, interviews with legal experts suggest that it would not be abnormal for such a high-level case to move up the hierarchy of prosecutors, with disagreements over how to apply Sweden’s finely calibrated laws on sexual misconduct.


After the two women were interviewed at the police station, prosecutors issued an arrest warrant within hours. Mr. Assange said at the time he did not know who his accusers were. “Their identities have been made anonymous so even I have no idea who they are,” he said to the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet.

The police report quotes lengthy passages from Mr. Assange’s interview with investigators, which occurred when he voluntarily submitted to questioning in Stockholm, before the prosecutors’ office allowed him to return to Britain. Throughout the interview, he insisted that he had committed no offenses in his sexual encounters with the two women, while declining in many instances to respond to detailed police questioning about sexual details. Speaking of his relationship with Ms. A, the report quoted him as saying that “I had no reason to suspect that I would be accused of something like this.” He added that the complaints made against him included “a number of false statements” and “a bunch of incredible lies.”

Mr. Assange’s suspicions of political interference in the case were confirmed, he has said in recent days, by the decision of the Swedish prosecutors to drop the initial arrest warrant, and to downgrade the investigation to one of “molestation,” a minor offense. Those decisions were reversed in late August when the chief state prosecutor, Marianne Ny, overruling a subordinate prosecutor in Stockholm, Eva Finne, restored the original allegations, saying that rape was the appropriate charge for the evidence on file with the prosecutors.

Legal experts in Sweden have said that the decision was not unusual given the success that the women’s movement in Sweden has had over the last 30 years in recasting Sweden’s criminal laws on sexual issues, making them extremely protective of women’s rights.

There is a lot more and everyone should read it. But for anyone who thinks extradition to Sweden is just a ploy to allow the United States to grab Assange, there is this story:

There is a consensus growing among US constitutional lawyers and others, while rehearsing all the problems attached to bringing a prosecution, that Assange will be indicted. But they doubt the chances of obtaining his extradition from Britain, and they think it will be harder still should he be sent to Sweden.

There is no “lynch mob” after Julian Assange. He is currently free on bail and staying in a mansion pending an extradition hearing. Assange, his team of lawyers and his supporters claim the case against him is a “bunch of hooey” but he sure isn’t eager to get into court and prove it.


Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

LAWYERS for Julian Assange have expressed anger about an alleged smear campaign against the Australian WikiLeaks founder.

Incriminating police files were published in the British newspaper that has used him as its source for hundreds of leaked US embassy cables.

In a move that surprised many of Mr Assange’s closest supporters on Saturday, The Guardian newspaper published previously unseen police documents that accused Mr Assange in graphic detail of sexually assaulting two Swedish women. One witness is said to have stated: “Not only had it been the world’s worst screw, it had also been violent.”

Bjorn Hurtig, Mr Assange’s Swedish lawyer, said he would lodge a formal complaint to the authorities and ask them to investigate how such sensitive police material leaked into the public domain. “It is with great concern that I hear about this because it puts Julian and his defence in a bad position,” he told a colleague.

Hey! We’re the only ones who can leak stuff to the media!

I guess somebody must have leaked the information. Leaks are good, right?

99 Responses

  1. Doug Powers:

    My year will be complete if the police reply, “we got the documents from WikiLeaks, dude.”

  2. The Village Voice:

    The founder of WikiLeaks and his team of lawyers have had it with the leaks. Yesterday, the Guardian published information from secret police documents, detailing the sex crime allegations leveled against Julian Assange in Sweden for which he’s currently facing extradition hearings in London. (The Guardian, if you’ll recall, is also one of the newspapers Assange’s organization uses to leak diplomatic secrets.) In response, Assange’s lawyers are calling for privacy, despite his self-branding as an advocate for “radical transparency.”

    They sure haven’t shown much concern for the privacy of the two women involved, have they?

  3. bravo. this strange story gets stranger by the day. can’t say i have ANY sympathy for Mr. A’s leakage problems and subsequent legal problems.

  4. The kid wants a Rosetta Chinese package fir christmas. That sucker is almost $600 bucks. Is she crazy?!?! Why not just ask for an iPad or a new car?
    Damn language addict. That’s it. I’m sending her to Chinese school on Saturday’s. That’ll learn her. And it’s about half the price.

    • Stupid kids are cheaper.

      • Yeah, why didn’t she ask for a Sephora gift certificate and a pair if jeggings? That would have been souch easier.

    • Even though Rosetta’s a local company, I’m not sure that’s the best approach. I’ll send a pointer to the books and tapes I used. I liked them quite a bit.

      • I noticed it’s the full 3 levels at that price (on sale for $479 right now). So you might just go with level 1 or level 1 and 2 and save some pennies.

        OK, here’s the comparison. Rosetta is really good outside of a class and especially if you’re on your own path. They do a good job.

        The route I took was studying with other people and having plenty of native speakers to work and practice with. For that approach, I really liked the books, tapes, and workbooks from the Beijing Languages Institute, Practical Chinese (Mandarin) [Reader, CDs, Workbook, Wookbook CDs, and if you really want, Instructors Manual, Instructors Manual CDs].

      • Too late. She’s enrolled in stanford’s online high school. She already knows she can take chinese through them. It’s just that I can only afford one class per year and this year, it’s honors English 11. If she can just wait until next fall. But of course, we know that she cannot wait until next fall. She has to have it now.

    • She can contribute some of the money?

      OR it could be from both you and other people in her life?

  5. Well that’s the advantage of having a blog Myiq2xu,, you can hone your message over and over and over until the facts seem to match your predetermined prejustice. Yesterday you implied that anybody who did not agree with your take on this was a “rape apologist”. That’s pretty strong polemic worthy of the best of Obama crowd.

    Myiq2xu, You think people who hold state secrets are bound to hold them not matter what atrocity the may reveal or prevent. Often this ethic leads to places like Nuremburg. Nazis did as you wished and covered their state secrets well, war of aggression, murder of 12 million innocents…and so on. People who belonged to the “White Rose”, “FAUD”, “Red Orchestra” organizations that revealed state secrets about the Nazis in pamphlets surely deserved to be beheaded under your ethic. The French resistance were also wrong because they revealed the Vichy secrets by infiltration…shot those commie bastards? The 1944 assassination attempt against Hitler was a betrayal so it was bad too..eh Myiq2xu? Fair enough, but what your doing with this daily trashing of Assange with conjecture is not going after those who revealed state secrets, but those that published them..so your choice of using the NYT as a “source” is ironic to say the least as they have been the largest publishers of state secrets to date.

    I don’t agree with your ALL ENCOMPASSING ethic in covering up crimes that may included mass murder acomplished by state actors, I think if people know there is the possibility that their acts might be revealed they will measure the risk-reward more carefully. That is what Mandella’s “Truth & Reconsiliation Commsion accomplished by revealing South Africa’s state secrets. I think Mandella had a better take than you Myiq2xu.

    Back to your specific polemic based on the NYT article as I said:

    ….on December 19, 2010 at 1:37 am

    The NYT has become a completely unreliable source when the Beltway wants it’s spin. Do I have to remind you of the run-up to the Iraq invasion? The NYT was the go to site for lies & spin…that is if you weren’t reading Josh Marshal in those days.

    …these facts have not been reputed in either account, both women met with him in the following days without any problems noted, they were the ones that got their names worldwide recognition by contacting Expressen Sweden’s “Enquirer” like Tabloid, Often times in legal affair both the defense and prosecution are known to change stories as the first accusations/defense become untenable…an updated story maybe better honed, but not “more reliable”.
    The Guardian just rehash’s the story with more updated speculation.

    “”Monica” told police, Miss A told her that she thought Assange had torn the condom on purpose.” This is hearsay of speculation. Saying you “think he tore the condom purposely” should be “at this point [time] I saw him rip the condom by doing [this], but again the report comes from somebody who has just had sex with a guy her friend has been sleeping with and so it goes. “Assange would not leave her flat and was sleeping in her bed, although she was not having sex with him”. So by her own words she said “no” and he complied, yes he’s an ass for not leaving, but she did invite him to stay at her place….“Miss A then warned if Assange did not take a test, Miss W would go to the police.” so a friend who had sex with me said of a friend who I had sex with said “my friend said ” if you don’t do this, she’ll do that”…Julian may be an ass, but if their own words are being accurately reported, these women are no charmers either.

    Let’s continue:

    “Late that Friday afternoon, Harold told police, Assange agreed to take a test, but the clinics had closed for the weekend. Miss A phoned Harold to say that she and Miss W had been to the police, who had told them that they couldn’t simply tell Assange to take a test, that their statements must be passed to the prosecutor. That night, the story leaked to the Swedish newspaper Expressen. Julian’s lawyer says the police report indicates it was the women who went to the papers, if he is lying it is easily proven, the paper won’t refute that slanderous alegation and neither will the police, prosecutor, or women. WHY NOT? Because if the lawyer is not slandering the women, the women in question are first class jerks. Why won’t the media find out one way or the other? Why is Julian’s poor sexual performance front page news? My God folks, is the internet still inhabited by clueless naïf’s, could Josh Marshal, Kevin Drum, Ezra K, Matt Y & Jon Alter still sell you on invading Iraq all over again? Let’s continue:

    “The Guardian article you used yesterday for the same polemic stated:

    “The Guardian understands that the recent Swedish decision to apply for an international arrest warrant followed a decision by Assange to leave Sweden in late September’ and why the bleep shouldn’t he be able to leave Sweden if they hadn’t produced a warrant in a month and half’s time…Jesus folks, was Assange supposed to stay in Sweden forever.

    …This complaint of a broken condom has had 2 trys and now the 3rd try is underway along with a US State Dept /Foggy Bottom PR shove

    Uhmmm Myiq2xu, I’m sorry this adds nothing to what was said in the earlier reporting. I did not see anything in the more recent story that made anybody look good, or made Julian a rapist, just a publicity jerk, who met two jerks who wanted publicity. As Ian said normal people don’t take risks like this, if you want perfect people to worship…be careful what you ask for, to many Obama was a perfect stranger, a vessel for the insipid naives to pour their hopes & dreams into.

    • Wow, Godwin and an army of strawmen all in one comment.

      • Unsupportable statements seems to be your strong suit when your emotions cloud your intelect.

        This re-post under the guise of an “Update” of the exact same thing you said yesterday is nothing but repetition in the treasured tradition of the scream louder form of argument.

        Bully for you, you can repeat the same post until commenter get the point…you will repeat until they agree…or STFU. Disgusting display of editorial control.

        • Did you even read my post? I linked to a new NYT article, then updated it with a second new article.

          Nobody has had any comments banned regarding this topic.

          If you have something to offer but insults and bogus arguments please let me know.

          • “If you have something to offer but insults and bogus arguments please let me know.” – myiq2xu?

            What this myiq2xu?

            “Wow, Godwin and an army of strawmen all in one comment.”- myiq2xu?

            Yeah right, your propaganda may get you garbage traffic, but I despise those who use the bully pulpit for this kind of crap.

          • Yeah, I don’t really believe anything I say, It’s all just to generate traffic. The higher our hit count, the higher our advertising revenue.

            Oh, wait . . .

          • I knew we forgot something… advertising. Damn.

    • Speaking of rape apologism, I’d say that a calling women who are pressing rape charges publicity-hungry jerks a bit fucking galling. Celebrity excuses rape, don’t ya know. What was the name of that little bitch who accussed Polanski again? What a publicity seeking whore…

      • “they were the ones that got their names worldwide recognition by contacting Expressen Sweden’s “Enquirer” like Tabloid”

        However you misquote me when you say women who are pressing rape charges “publicity-hungry jerks”

        What I said was:

        “I did not see anything in the more recent story that made anybody look good, or made Julian a rapist, just a publicity jerk, who met two jerks who wanted publicity. ”

        See the difference? Too clueless? Here, I’ll explain, I think everybody involved in this is a jerk.

        He’s a jerk, the women are jerks, the media who pretent to care one way or they other are jerks, the people defending Assange are jerks and the people attacking are jerks, the whole story is what I would call a “push”…back in the day.

        Now you compared what the women said Assange did to Polanski…that is garbage thinking. Comparing drugging and raping a helpless kid 25 years your junior is the work of a warped brain and the type of garbage myiq2xu propagandizing seeks to bring out.

        • Thanks for trying to carry on here. But you got it right when you said that emotion clouds judgment. I don’t think it’s about traffic to the site at all – this is a case of a hot button issue pushing an emotional response and objectivity is out the window. It couldn’t be more obvious that trial by tabloid, oops I mean, main stream media is pointless.

          It’s also obvious that the purpose is to deflect attention away from the content of the Wikileaks releases. That’s a lot more deserving of frong page space, eh myiq?

          In addition, just because some scholars say it may be difficult for the US to get extradition from the UK or Sweden – that is not at all proof that the US isn’t pushing for it as hard as they can behind the scenes which is what I suspect is going on.

          • Back in the day, “some scholars” may have also thought Geneva Conventions meant something.

          • It’s also obvious that the purpose is to deflect attention away from the content of the Wikileaks releases. That’s a lot more deserving of frong page space, eh myiq?

            I’m not the only blogger here. Maybe YOU would like to write a nice long post on the contents of the WikiLeaks releases.

            If you write one, I guarantee it will get posted on the front page here.

            The ball is in your court.

    • Was going to complement your active imagination, then decided it wasn’t that impressive after all.

    • Well, most of the NYT article was rehash of the Guardian article myiq put forward yesterday. And the Guardian article is one of the very few out there which has a minimumof spin and a maximum of validated sources. (not, of course, that this means that they are perfect, just that the markers are there for not-total-trash). In contrast, most of the pro-Assange spin has come from somewhat questionable and biased sources (eg, his defense attorneys).

      So it’s a little off to be calling myiq a bunch of names, including a Nazi (srsly?). The rush to believe beyond any doubt that Assange’s WL work means he’s an angel in every and any respect is the proper comparison to Obama.

      And “polemic” — I do not think it means what you think it means. (h/t Indigo Montoya).

  6. Gee, I don’t know how I could be so cynical… But anybody taken a guess yet that Assange leaked the documents himself. Uh, seems to have a penchant for doing that and what a great f ing way to set up an appeal, etc., etc. I do like the lousy screw quote… Cynical again (no doubt) but which part do you think Assangeists have a problem with– that she said it was violent or that he was a lousy lay? Just sayin.

    • One would assume that violent coerced sex is concomitant with the lousy lay aspect. Well, that’s how I would see it anyway. Of course, you can get a lousy lay without the violence. I have personal experience in that department.

      • There’s a lot of lousy sex out there and a lot of times one partner doesn’t really feels like it. If you care even tangentially about your partner you don’t go to the press with the story.

        All involved in this story sound like spoiled jerks and the attackers/defenders on both sides have narratives that pre-date actual events.

        • Wow. Just wow.
          You know what the proper response is when your partner doesn’t feel like it? Don’t pressure her into having sex anyway, just to coddle your manly feelings.
          Give her a back rub, a cup of tea, and let her get some rest.

  7. Thanks for the info, myiq! The irony is sweet!


  8. The WikiLeaks bitch-boy doesn’t like it when the shoe is on the other foot, does he? Ha ha ha

    Turnabout is fair play, and who lives by the leak, etc., etc.

    • Tthe use of the term “bitch-boy” to describe someone negatively is both sexist and homophobic.

  9. Oh, yeah, and if this megalomaniac sociopath didn’t have enough ego invested in using the words “my project” and “my [fill in the blank],” the P.O.S. from Oz will now have to face both the Swedes’ hypocrisy and the Americans’ desire to shut him up with his Limey boy-friend Bradley until the middle of the century.

  10. Another episode in the annals of Gray Lady Down!

  11. My, the jingoism is getting thick on this blog lately.

    This may not be the sort of place I thought it was. 😦

    • Jingoism?

      • Well, more on the Pvt. Manning thread than this one, but I’m seeing a lot of de facto defense of the interests of The Owners here–though not from you, RD; mostly from The Clown.

        • Far be it from me to speak for the Clown, but my reasons for opposing the whole wikileaks model has not a damn thing to do with jingoism. It has to do with a problem with fucking anarchy.

          • I believe in the law. I believe that in this nation the law is king.

            If the law is wrong, then change it.

            But nobody, on the left, the right or even in the highest office in the land has the right to ignore the law.

          • And if the system is so bloody corrupt that the laws can’t be changed for the better? What then? 😕

          • You say you want a revolution
            Well, you know
            We all want to change the world
            You tell me that it’s evolution
            Well, you know
            We all want to change the world
            But when you talk about destruction
            Don’t you know that you can count me out

          • I’m not advocating violent revolution. All that ever accomplishes is to replace one set of evil bastards with a different set of evil bastards.

            Yes, even the American Revolution; many of the Founders owned slaves, after all.

            I’m saying maybe it can’t be made better. 😦

        • Ivory Bill Woodpecker, the way I (personally) read this was as a response to those who say that the charges against Mr. Assange must be bogus (because he is such an awesome guy) or say that having sex with women when they are asleep or without using a requested condom can’t be criminal acts. Not only are such acts hostile against the woman involved, but they may result in pregnancy or disease.

          We don’t know whether Mr. Assange is guilty. The jury and court will decide, but the charges are, potentially, serious, which comes across in this post.

          I do think it is funny that his lawyers are protesting against leaks — of information which will be public as soon as the trial starts, if not before.

          Some of the leaks are of interest, but others just make peacemaking harder. The latter is not heroic in my book.


    • The Confluence may be going the way of No Quarter. I hope not.

      • Um, I don’t think so. Every front Pager has a different point of view. We don’t always agree. That’s ok with us.
        Personally, I just don’t care that much about Assange. I don’t think his actions amount yo rape but then I’m not living in Sweden. They have their own laws and degrees of criminal behavior when it comes to sexual incidents.
        I’d prefer tO let the law figure this out.
        Why take sides? He’s neither a hero nor a demon. He’s human.

        • This Wikileaks thing tends to cross ideological lines anyway. Glenn Beck implied these charges were some kind of Russian honey trap, and I’m pretty sure he’s not a liberal guy.

          • Sexism seems to cross ideological lines with no problem.

          • “You dare refuse assimilation into the Assange-Must-Be-Guilty Collective? You must be a mi$ogyni$t!!!1!”

            Hmmm, where have I heard this before? Oh, yeah…

            “You dare refuse assimilation into the Oborg Collective? You must be a r@ci$t!!!1!: 🙄

          • I think I was making the opposite point.

          • That election is over. There are real racists and misogynists in America, but I’m more convinced everyday that there are far more of the latter.

          • 1539–I was responding to 3W, not to you.

            Vague nesting issues. 🙄

        • I am sorry to be blunt Riverdaughter. I have loved your blog from day one. But now from certain front pagers I see the kind of `push`stories, and `bully`reasoning that Markos did during the time of 2008 primaries. You deserve better.

          Of course, we have different points of view, that`s a given. What I don`t like is just sensational coverage of a topic, each post a “Àssange is a jerk“, with slight new variation.

          As I have said before, Rape is a horrible crime, and it marks its victim for a lifetime. Same as RACISM. To just assume that Assange is a rapist because he is being accused, is well … like a bunch of people calling Clinton supporters racist and going with it. Assange may be a jerk, he may even be guilty, but he doesn`t deserve to have `rapist`attached to his name before he even has had a trial. But in pushing this story, I smell a hugh rat.

          It`s really like Clinton impeachment trial. Clinton behaved badly. Monica was a young intern, he was the President. It was hard to defend him. BUT one could see that there is a lot more going on, and the whole thing is a witch hunt. Hillary was called an ambitious shrew for standing by him, but she, of all people, realized that this witchhunt was about usurping the constitution.

          Like Clinton`s impeachment over Lewinksky affair, I smell that this is a giant distraction and a way of embarrasing Assange, distracting people from the pressure on wikileaks, distracting people from what wikileaks has revealed, and distracting us from something that is becoming a very powerful global police state.

          There is a whole lot of sh*t at stake.

          • Ghost2: HONK TURNED UP TO 11! 🙂

          • What’s with all the honkees?

            Dittoheads? Geese?

          • Monica bragged that she was coming to Washington as an intern and bringing along her “presidential kneepads.” She had had at least one affair with an older married man and had Bill Clinton in her crosshairs. She arranged to encounter him and flaunt her thong. Hardly an assault on Bill Clinton’s part. She might have been an intern, but she had an objective that would take advantage of Clinton’s weakness. What does this dallying have to do with anything. Should you and I even know about it. I did read the pertinent pages of the Star Report and found the few incidences a bit high schoolish. None of my business, but useful to the Republicans to get their hyper-big business agenda across.

          • The Clintons did something with their lives to earn their notoriety. Assange is a hacker who risked the lives of people who work for our government, and he did it without a second thought. The great thing about anarchy is you never have to take responsibility or be accountable for anything.

          • CB,

            I am not about to rehash the Monica affair. I am a great admirer of Bill and Hillary Clinton. The point I was/am making is that a person may behave badly, and be hard to defend, but one has to look at the bigger picture, the whole picture, if possible. That doesn’t excuse their bad behavior, but it doesn’t mean that we join the mob and talk about nothing else.

            I happen to think that Assange is a flawed individual doing a valuable service. It is also very possible that he has been used by many actors, and that he has intentionally been provided by those leaks from some people with an agenda.

            We live in an age of secrecy by governments. I do believe in the order of the law and good government. I do also believe that the role of people is continuously diminshing in the functioning of democratic governments. Case in point: has anyone been held accoutable for the misleading of the public leading to Iraq war?? Counterforces, like wikileaks, are needed to force governments to be transparent.

          • Govt will tighten more now.

            And yes, someone has been held accountable for the Iraq War. Hillary did not become Potus.

            Here’s something I’ve learned from blogging all these two years. Most anti war activist bloggers care about politics and their egos more than principles. The bigger their following and personal brand, the more true that seems to be.

          • Nijma: I don’t remember how “Honk!” got started, but it is more or less our equivalent of the Limbaughtomy patients’ “Ditto!”. 🙂

    • How so?

  12. Joe Biden v. Joe Biden on WikiLeaks

    Greenwald also reports further on what amounts to the torture of PFC Manning in captivity.

    It’s really not an overstatement to say that WikiLeaks and Julian Assange are the new Iraqi WMDs because the government and establishment media are jointly manufacturing and disseminating an endless stream of fear-mongering falsehoods designed to depict them as scary villains threatening the security of The American People and who must therefore be stopped at any cost. So often, the government/media claims made in service of this goal are outright false, which is why I have focused so much on the un-killable, outright lie that WikiLeaks indiscriminately dumped 250,000 diplomatic cables without regard to the consequences

    It’s perfectly feasible, and even likely, for Assange to be a terrible person and a rapist while at the same time doing a valuable service by leaking information about government crimes and lies. We do not have to like or admire the man to appreciate his information. Unless we are a bunch of goofy teens.

    Am I wrong or does it seem we are now in favor of torture for US prisoners. The Manning stuff here has been just sick.

    • Transparency. Torture. What next. Is the Progressive Movement going to hang the credibility of its entire political agenda on Wikileaks.

    • I have yet to see any credible evidence that manning has been tortured. What I see is pretty much typical treatment for someone who is in max security and on suicide watch.

      How do you think Manning should be treated?

      BTW – If you think he’s being treated bad, you should see how the Marines treat deserters.

      “What’s the matter dirtbag, don’t you love the Corps?”

      • The Corps has nothing to do with this operation. In their case, he would probably be executed but that would be better than 52 yrs in prison?

        The treatment of prisoners in Supermax facilities is torture IMHO. 23 hours a day in solitary when you can’t even exercise to break the boredom is mind altering. Only being allowed to walk a figure 8 in a room for the 1 hour you’re out of your cell. After a period of time, that becomes torture.

        I think he should be treated as any other prisoner who is not on suicide watch, because he is not now and probably should never have been. It’s a good excuse though.

        What do you and Three Wickets think you are protecting? If the government doesn’t want to be embarrassed, it should play straight. Are you now in favor of extra-judicial killings or other fine plans of our government? How about the 15,000 additional Iraqi war dead? Would you like all that and the spying allegations covered up just because Hillary’s name got mentioned or any other reason really? If so, you can probably pick up a brown shirt with a name tag at OFA one day soon.

        • Instead of spouting Ralph, why not share a list of the specific revelations in the leaks which would end the wars. I’m sure you have them handy.

  13. I rarely post anything. I have checked this site everyday (no exaggeration) since the ’08 election. This really helped when Digby, TPM, DU, FDL, etc. wanted to be more like CNN, MSNBC, NYT, etc. All I got when I was overseas was the MSM so blogs like this helped me have a better idea if things were going right or wrong here at home. After that number dwindled to where it is today I hold on far more tightly to the access to what makes this site important to me. Fairness, looking for the most important truth of the matter, demanding info to back up what’s being discussed…all those ideals were consistent in any discussion on this site and that has kept me coming back.

    But since Assange has been charged, the innocent til proven guilty ideal, among others, has been dropped. Totally. The thing is though, that’s not the most important thing. The discussion of the content of the latest Wikileaks is off of the radar. Almost totally. If I were someone with something to be concerned about with the Wikileaks info, I’d be rather pleased right now with how, all over the world, news is now focused on the sex-life and possible sex-crimes of Mr. Assange, and not the destruction of lives and possible crimes, moral and legal, that were hidden but now revealed in Wikileaks. Having the opportunity is rare. That is what is being made rare-er by the minute with the very well coordinated effort to destroy Pfc. Manning, Assange and to discourage anyone else who might be thinking of doing whistle blowing.That person might not be the rapist, recalcitrant slut or a pedophile-junkie shoplifter that big and little media is questioning that person to be, It’s all that’s necessary and it works. We aren’t talking about the messed stuff that Wikileaks revealed, nor what should be done about it. Not at all. I hope this site and others return to that kind of focus.There aren’t that many left.

    • My mom has been disappointed since I was a kid.

      I just call ’em like I see ’em.

      • You’re not evil or stupid, Myiq.

        However, I do think, this time, you are inadvertently serving the interests of The Owners.

        • myiq’s tinfoil hat must have a tear in it.

          I think there are two assumptions at play here. The first is that the allegations are a conspiracy either writ large or writ small. The other is that Assange is guilty. Both can’t be true at the same time.

          This argument has nothing to do with Assange’s guilt or innocence. It is only about the vaule of posting these stories. If you don’t believe the allegations are worthy of a blog post, they certainly shouldn’t be worth 1/2 page comments on the thread.

    • I don’t believe that the “innocent until proven guilty” part of American justice has been touted on this site. I think the “treat women who report rape” as human beings rather than sluts or spoilers in an international game of gotcha has been touted

  14. So did he get the AIDS test already?

    The women are True Wikileak Believers. They don’t want negative publicity for their cause, even if their messiah has no talent in the bedroom. They just want to know he didn’t give them cooties, that and get him out of their lives.

  15. We got it MYIQ. You’re sure he’s guilty. You don’t care about silly things like trials. Hang him. Do it today. Call anyone who believes in fair trials “rape apologists”.

    Now move on, please. I have a feeling that many of us will if you don’t. If we haven’t already.

    • I think the question of everyone getting a fair trial is the point. As for moving on, the writers here do not work for you. If you like an intelligent civil debate, I’ve always found TC fair and accommodating…even as I disagree strongly on some issues.

    • In my next life I’ll be sure to only take positions that are popular. We can run polls where you can help me decide what I should think.

      Then I’ll be a chickenshit just like Digby

      • No you are not Digby. You are imitating Markos. He trashed Hillary in front page posts, and by various means contributed to others doing it as well. It was all various forms of ‘bullying’. Any little misstep by Hillary was magnified to a hundred fold. Remember the darkened photo controversy???

        Bullies are the other side of the coin from the chickenshits. Bullies keep yelling their opinions, keep making subtle (and obvious) digs at people they don’t like. They avoid substance and focus on personalities.

        Posting juicy tid-bits on Assange trial has become like screaming “Iraq war vote” and “dynasty” at every opportunity. In a reasonable world, we let the trial (hopefully a trial fair to Assange AND the women) take place. We wait for the things to come out. We don’t call him or the women names. AND we focus on the actual story of wikileaks and what it implies.

        • I’m doing the same thing I have always done since I got here. You just disagree with my opinions now.

          Assange is not running for office and I’m not trying to affect the outcome of an election. I doubt anyone in the Swedish legal system will be aware of, let alone affected by, anything I say here.

          BTW – I have a total of THREE posts that discuss the rape charges against Assange and TWO others that discuss WikiLeaks and PFC Manning.

          FIVE posts out of the over 900 I have made here at TC.

  16. Anyone who thinks there isn’t a lynchmob after Assange hasn’t been paying attention to their fellow Americans. Which is interesting, since a lot of them are the misogynist reactionaries who usually pour their scorn on liberals and feminists. But then lynchmobs do form odd alliances.

    • You may be right. But I’ve personally been surprised so far by how measured most of the wingosphere has been about wikileaks. Cherry picking what they want. Criticizing Assange but not with their usual total abandon.

  17. Wow. Just wow. The difference between what the government does in our name (ie. war and corrupt deals) and the course of justice seems to have escaped you.

    The whole Wikileaks thing has been very revealing.

    • The course of justice is what Mr. Assange is trying to avoid.

      It includes:

      The filing of charges (which has been done)

      Being informed of those charges, advised of rights and allowed to enter a plea (not officially done and won’t be until Assange returns to Sweden)

      The right to an attorney (he has a team of them)

      The right to see the evidence against you (which Assange has seen)

      The right to remain silent (which Mr. Assange exercises selectively)

      The right to hear evidence presented against you, to confront witnesses, and to cross-examine them (that happens at a trial, not in the media)

      The right to present evidence and witnesses on your behalf and to testify in your own defense (same as above)

      The right to trial by jury (same as above)

      The right to the legal presumption of innocence until a jury finds you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by unanimous verdict (same as above)

      The legal presumption of innocence is not the same as factual innocence. It applies to the state, not to individuals.

      I want to see justice take it’s course. I don’t want Assange to be given a preemptive “get out of jail free” card because of his fame and his activities with WikiLeaks.

  18. Assange’s online dating profile:

    # I like women from countries that have sustained political turmoil. Western culture seems to forge women that are valueless and inane. OK. Not only women!

    # I am DANGER, ACHTUNG, and ??????????????!

    # Directing a consuming, dangerous human rights project which is, as you might expect, male dominated

    # I have asian teengirl stalkers. Hello.

    # Do not write to me if you are timid. I am too busy. Write to me if you are brave.

    which is, as you might expect, male dominated
    …except for Swedish activist women, who know how to organize housing and events for a traveling activist. Same as when Hillary’s people came here for the campaign and local women organized everything, including housing for them.

    Women are the unrecognized mainstay of many a grass roots movement, but are all too often dismissed with a “The proper position of women in the movement is prone” attitude.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: