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Wednesday News

Good Morning Conflucians!!

Let’s see what’s in the news today. You’ll never guess, more stuff about O’Donnell. No way. Yes way. Here’s a bit from ABC:

Senate candidate Christine O’Donnell broke her nearly week-long silence in the national news media Tuesday night in an appearance on Fox News’ “Hannity.”

But “mama grizzly” O’Donnell, who has faced growing scrutiny over her personal finances and past statements on sexual and social values, said future network interviews were entirely “off the table.”

“I’m not going to do any more national media because Delaware is my focus and local media are my focus,” she said.

By personal finances of course they mean she had trouble keeping up with her mortgage. Meaning, government is no place for someone who’s, you know, like the “little people”.

She told Sean Hannity that many of her provocative past statements which have resurfaced in recent days do not reflect her current outlook and are intended as a distraction for her campaign.

O’Donnell explained her 1999 comment on Bill Maher’s show “Politically Incorrect” that she had “dabbled in witchcraft” during high school as an act of “teenage rebellion.”

“Some people dabble in drugs to rebel. That’s how I rebelled,” she said. “Who didn’t do some questionable things in high school?”

O’Donnell said her controversial comments on homosexuality, masturbation and condom use, some of which were made during television appearances in the 1990s, were personal views and wouldn’t play a role in her decision making process.

“What those statements are about is in my 20’s I had newfound faith and I looked at going on those shows as a ministry,” she said of her television appearances. “My faith has matured and now it’s the Constitution that will determine how I decide on what crosses my desk.”

There’s more about mortgage, campaign financing issues, etc. And no, Castle still isn’t endorsing her, and much of the GOP is still on the attack. As has been reported here before, we’re liberal and we’re not for her. But it’s amazingly tone deaf for the opposition to go after the things they’re going after. On that note, let’s see what CBS has to say on the topic:

Yesterday, Hotsheet reported that Delaware Republican Senate candidate Christine O’Donnell’s past remarks that she “dabbled into witchcraft” offended Wiccans, who said O’Donnell’s comments misrepresented their religion. Today, a Satanist from New York City is taking issue with the Tea Party candidate.

Some Wiccan leaders complained that witches do not believe in Satan. Diane Vera, the founder of a group called “NYC Satanists, Luciferians, Dark Pagans, and LHP Occultists” added today that O’Donnell’s anecdote also misrepresents Satanists.

“As far as I am aware, no serious practitioner of any variant of either Wicca or Satanism would have a picnic on one’s altar,” Vera said in a press release.

I guess they’re implying that some stupid kids in high school dabbling with things like that might not have been serious practitioners.  OMG! Say it ain’t so. And I guess someone like O’Donnell hasn’t read up on what those religions are really about. No way.

Yea, keep at this level of stuff and the idiots in the media are sure to get her elected. Idiots.

OK, enough of the stupid news. Let’s see what else is going on. In a move that couldn’t possibly surprise anyone, the GOP blocks DADT repeal slipped into the defense budget bill:

Senate Republicans dealt a stinging setback yesterday to efforts to repeal the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell’’ policy for gay soldiers, defeating attempts by Democratic leaders to take up a major military bill that includes the issue.

Democrats fell four votes shy of the 60 votes needed to break a GOP filibuster — which included Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts — that prevented consideration of the overall bill.

The defeat is expected to push any efforts to repeal “don’t ask’’ past mid-term elections. For gay-rights advocates and Democratic leaders, this means that a lame-duck session could represent a last stand for a repeal, because election gains expected for Republicans could extinguish any chances in a new Congress.

“Today’s Senate vote was a frustrating blow to repeal this horrible law,’’ said Aubrey Sarvis, executive director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, which provides legal assistance to service members ousted through the ban. “Time is the enemy here. We now have no choice but to look to the lame-duck session, where we’ll have a slim shot.’’

And sadly the GOP can cite as their main reason for voting against it Obama himself. Remember Obama got the Pentagon to investigate the impact of DADT before he wanted to do anything about it. Well, they haven’t finished investigating yet. So this failure was preordained. And as we all know, Obama could have made this happen from day one with the stroke of a pen. Clearly this was always the plan. And now Dems can say, well, we tried. Right. You tried really hard. I’ll try just as hard to vote for you.

As we heard yesterday, Summers is heading for the door. Of course we and most of the world are hoping Timmeh is going to follow him soon. In the mean time, Reuters has a fun list of some economists mentioned as possible replacements. Have a look. That and what else might happen there should be a fun post for Dak later.

Speaking of rumbles behind closed doors at the WH, Bob Woodward has a new book called “Obama Wars” depicting lots of in fighting among other things. Some choice bits include:

Beyond the internal battles, the book offers fresh disclosures on the nation’s continuing battle with terrorists. It reports that the C.I.A. has a 3,000-man “covert army” in Afghanistan called the Counterterrorism Pursuit Teams, or C.T.P.T., mostly Afghans who capture and kill Taliban fighters and seek support in tribal areas. Past news accounts have reported that the C.I.A. has a number of militias, including one trained on one of its compounds, but not the size of the covert army.

The book also reports that the United States has intelligence showing that manic-depression has been diagnosed in President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan and that he was on medication, but adds no details. Mr. Karzai’s mood swings have been a challenge for the Obama administration.

As for Mr. Obama himself, the book describes a professorial president who assigned “homework” to advisers but bristled at what he saw as military commanders’ attempts to force him into a decision he was not yet comfortable with. Even after he agreed to send another 30,000 troops last winter, the Pentagon asked for another 4,500 “enablers” to support them.

The president lost his poise, according to the book. “I’m done doing this!” he erupted.

To ensure that the Pentagon did not reinterpret his decision, Mr. Obama dictated a six-page, single-space “terms sheet” explicitly laying out his troop order and its objectives, a document included in the book’s appendix.

Mr. Obama’s struggle with the decision comes through in a conversation with Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who asked if his deadline to begin withdrawal in July 2011 was firm. “I have to say that,” Mr. Obama replied. “I can’t let this be a war without end, and I can’t lose the whole Democratic Party.”

This presidency is even more of a train wreck than I thought it would be. Seriously, that guy shouldn’t be a dog catcher.

In what is probably a smart move, Michelle Obama will hit the campaign trail:

Advisers said Mrs. Obama has no plans to bring sharp-edged rhetoric to the campaign trail. They said the First Lady will not attack Republicans directly or accuse them of driving the country into a ditch.

“She’s campaigning to advocate, to rally voters behind specific candidates based on what we can do together to build a better future,” said Stephanie Cutter, assistant to the president for special projects. “She comes to this as a mom, and that’s the lens through which she sees the world and that’s her test for every issue—what it means for her daughters and all of our kids.”

White House officials have built a schedule for the First Lady that focuses on a handful of candidates for the U.S. Senate and events for the Democratic National Committee’s women’s leadership forum.

She will start in Wisconsin and Illinois, travel to Colorado, Washington state and California. Among the candidates to receive her help: Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado; Senator Russell D. Feingold of Wisconsin; Alexi Giannoulias who is running for the Senate in Illinois, and Senators Barbara Boxer of California and Patty Murray of Washington.

Most of the events will be fundraisers – including one for the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi — though aides said there will likely be some other public events added to the schedule in the coming days.

In news related to Michelle raising more money, the GOP seems to be short of it. Gosh, other than 8 years of a failed presidency, and then attacking the popular candidates and their supporters just as the Dems are doing, I can’t imagine what the problem might be:

In Iowa, Republicans finished August with just $34,819 in the bank, less than one-tenth what the Democrats there have. In Florida, Republicans have one-third less to spend. And in Missouri, Illinois and Indiana, where Republicans could be poised to win multiple races for Congress and the race for governor, the party is well behind its Democratic rivals.

At this point in previous campaign cycles, a large check has usually been in the mail from the Republican National Committee to help pay for the ground game. But this year, the party cannot afford to execute a robust voter turnout program, which could make a difference in tight races where Democrats hold a financial and organizational advantage.

“Will we be on par with Democrats on money?” said Matt Strawn, chairman of the Republican Party of Iowa. “Probably not, because we don’t control the White House. But will we have enough to get our voters out? I hope so.”

For the first time in at least a decade, the Republican National Committee has reduced the scale of its turnout and targeting programs, which have long been seen as critical ways to identify independent voters. A distinct state-by-state plan has become more of a one-size-fits-all regional effort, which is cheaper but may not be tailored to find voters in states where people do not register by political party.

Hey Republicans, if you were for, you know, your members having jobs, you might get some more money. Don’t laugh Democrats, like you’re any better.

Given that the money for both parties mostly comes from the same sources, namely pro monopoly corporatists, perhaps the plan was to keep Dems in power this cycle. That would be funny because I think the “little people” are a bit angry and given no viable alternative, may just switch who runs the house.

Also in the news is that some aspects of HCR are kicking in soon. Keep in mind, almost no one has read the bill, and the very government organizations that are to implement or regulate these new changes have admitted they have no idea how anything is supposed to work. And of course don’t forget who actually developed the bill (Heritage Foundation) and wrote the bill (the Health Insurance Lobby). So given that context, here’s what some more people who have no idea are saying about it:

Several key consumer protections under the nation’s new health law begin taking effect Thursday — six months after its enactment.

Insurers can no longer set a dollar limit on the amount of care they’ll provide over a person’s lifetime or deny coverage to sick children. Young adults can stay on their parents’ health plans until age 26. And consumers get greater rights to appeal insurers’ decisions.

“It’s really putting in place long overdue consumer protections,” Health Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said in an interview with USA TODAY. “It’s getting rid of some of the worst rules of the industry that prevented people from getting covered at all or, at a time they needed coverage the most, limited the coverage they had.”

Many people, however, will have to wait until Jan. 1 for the changes to help them. That’s because most of the new provisions apply to insurance policies that begin on or after Thursday. Many plans operate on a calendar year, and this fall will begin enrollment for next year.

There’s more discussion of various possible changes and what might happen. I would very much love it if good things really happened because of this bill. But given who wrote it, and from what bits we’ve discussed already with nice loopholes for insurance companies, I have a hard time believing it will be good.

And right after I say that, here’s another story of how it’s going to be bad right from the start:

Major health insurance companies in California and other states have decided to stop selling policies for children rather than comply with a new federal healthcare law that bars them from rejecting youngsters with preexisting medical conditions.

Anthem Blue Cross, Aetna Inc. and others will halt new child-only policies in California, Illinois, Florida, Connecticut and elsewhere as early as Thursday when provisions of the nation’s new healthcare law take effect, including a requirement that insurers cover children under age 19 regardless of their health histories.

The action will apply only to new coverage sought for children and not to existing child-only plans, family policies or insurance provided to youngsters through their parents’ employers. An estimated 80,000 California children currently without insurance — and as many as 500,000 nationwide — would be affected, according to experts.

Insurers said they were acting because the new federal requirement could create huge and unexpected costs for covering children. They said the rule might prompt parents to buy policies only after their kids became sick, producing a glut of ill youngsters to insure. As a result, they said, many companies would flee the marketplace, leaving behind a handful to shoulder a huge financial burden.

The insurers said they now sell relatively few child-only policies, and thus the changes will have a small effect on families.

“Unfortunately, this has created an un-level competitive environment,” Anthem Blue Cross, California’s largest for-profit insurer, said in a statement declaring its intention to “suspend the sale of child-only policies” on Thursday, six months after the healthcare overhaul was signed.

The change has angered lawmakers, regulators and healthcare advocates, who say it will force more families to enroll in already strained public insurance programs such as Medi-Cal for the poor in California.

The White House weighed in Tuesday, condemning Anthem corporate parent WellPoint Inc. and others that plan to stop selling child-only policies.

“It’s obviously very unfortunate that insurance companies continue to make decisions on the backs of children and families that need their help,” White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said at a news briefing.

I’m so not surprised.

Let’s see if there’s anything better. Nope. Looks like China and Japan are still at it:

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, in New York Tuesday for the United Nations General Assembly, urged Japan to release a detained Chinese boat captain “immediately and unconditionally,” China’s state news agency Xinhua reported.

Otherwise, China will take further measures, Wen said in a meeting with Chinese nationals and Chinese-Americans, according to Xinhua.

The captain was arrested earlier this month off the disputed Diaoyu Islands, in the East China Sea, after his vessel crashed into two Japanese patrol boats. He is accused of obstructing Japanese public officers while they performed duties.

A Japanese court has extended the detention of the captain as diplomatic tensions between the two countries rise.

“The Japanese side bears full responsibility for the current situation, and it shall bear all the consequences that arise,” Wen said, according to Xinhua.

The Ishigaki Summary Court in Okinawa decided that the captain will be held at least until September 29, the Japanese Coast Guard told CNN on Monday.

Don’t look at us for help Japan. It’s not like we have any power to help, or can afford to do anything. Our greedy idiots on wall street and in the health care industry have gotten together to make sure we slide into oblivion while China emerges as the only superpower. Oopsie. Something tells me Goldman Sachs hasn’t really thought all of that through.

That’s a bit of what’s in the news. Chime in with what you’re finding.

163 Responses

  1. She comes to this as a mom, and that’s the lens through which she sees the world and that’s her test for every issue—what it means for her daughters and all of our kids.”

    Have I ever mentioned I’m not a big fan of the Obama White House? Ugh!

    • the lens through which she sees the world and that’s her test for every issue

      So they are trying to make MO into a Dem mama grizzly?

      • Lol Leave it to the Dems to perfect the Mama Grizzly schtick. “No, it’s okay, ours don’t actually run for anything! No worries!”

        • Yes, it’s Mama Grizzly as noblesse oblige….with nothing tainted like trade or a run for office involved. She’ll just be commenting between her garden pruning and cookie making…/snark

          • I would not want to be in her shoes if she decided to run for public office. Her husband’s lunatic supporters would turn on her like a pack of rabid dogs.

          • Indeed! But even if they weren’t in the picture, If she wishes to run for office someday , she HAS to be seen at something besides the 50’s TV Mom stuff they have her doing . The Dem party used to be proud of its working Moms…not any more. If you have to work, you are beyond the pail.

          • Working moms might be looking at things through the unnatural lens of a physician or an attorney–we can’t have that. Yay for the Axlerovian Axis.

    • Michelle is mostly worried about getting restaurants to change their menus, replacing french fries with apple slices and white with whole wheat pasta. Never mind that the poor kids who are most at risk for obesity can’t afford to eat out anyway.


    • Good Gawd! Why would ANYONE listen to FLOTUS? She sure as hell could not “come to this…. ” through the lens of an attorney as she was forced by the disciplinary arm of the IL supreme court to “voluntarily” surrender her law license in late 1993. She was given a choice, to “voluntary” surrender or officially be disbarred.

      What did she do? Why was she given a choice… when other lawyers would be immediately disbarred upon such a recommendation?

      I am so tired of this corrupt and cruel woman being held up as some sort of role model. Her life is such a lie.

      On a more positive note, I was listening to an interview with Rosalyn Carter the other day; what a strong and utterly honest person. And, although in her 80s, she is still doing a large amount of work, especially fundraising, for mental health facilities. No headlines, just real work for those in need – year after year- long after her time in the White House.

    • LOL, OK, maybe I was wrong. Maybe it isn’t a good move. 🙂

      • I think it’s a good move. Michelle is smarter and probably still more popular than her husband. I’d like to see her do something besides talking about food.

        • I’m a bit skeptical that she will be able to stay on script and as Laura Bush 2, though. My bet is that she is just not going to be able to resist saying something snarky, and it will backfire.

          • Bingo. After all, her own staff advised her that the ritzy Spain trip would damage her image and she shouldn’t go. She blew em off and went.

          • I couldn’t agree more. Remember when on the campaign trail she came to Milwaukee and was trying to empathize with others by sharing her stories of how much they’ve had to struggle to pay for their daughters’ private schooling and ballet lessons. This occurred after numerous factory closings, and the past week thousands of people had just lost their jobs here. Her comments were not well received.

    • they’re kidding right?

      the commoner train left the platform back when she started wearing $500 sneaks and taking trips to spain with her daughters.

  2. The White House weighed in Tuesday, condemning Anthem corporate parent WellPoint Inc. and others that plan to stop selling child-only policies.

    Didn’ at Wellpoint Vice President write the health care bill?

    • The White House knew this would happen and don’t forget
      It was President Obama that blocked HR 676 (Single Payer)
      and then forbade anyone from discussing The Public Option,
      even Charlie Gibbs agreed not to discuss it. President
      Obama is NO advocate for the working folks or CHILDREN!
      President Obama then Killed the Medicare Buy In TOO!

      Obama is for the Insurance Companies as he took out the
      only real competition that would have brought prices down
      and assured coverage for all. He is a historic failure to me,
      especially when it is plain to see that NOT even the
      children were protected. 😥

      Thanks Dandy for covering these critical issues, that affect peoples health and their very lives.

      • I knew there’d be a way for insurance companies to get around the pre-existing thing with children. Once I read that piece at FDL about the Wellpoint VP writing the bill, I thought there’s no way she won’t put in a loophole big enough to push a sick kid through.

        And who’s protected? What’s the number one “reform” Obama keeps harping on? “Kids” who are actually not kids anymore but young adults, can stay on their parent’s policy a few years longer. Of course. They don’t get sick and they don’t buy policies, so it’s a way to get parents to continue to pay to keep them insured.

        The whole thing is so disgusing, it’s impossible to be cynical enough to keep up.

        • As I read that in the essay I was thinking the same thing. Shouldn’t the 18-26 year old crowd be the healthiest group? As a group they don’t need the insurance so this just amps up the profits as few will likely use the insurance except for occasionally being treated for the flu or breaking something. It is useful to have but not necessary. This just continues the trend of those who really need something continue to be denied.

          • with insurance, you have to have a huge risk pool to cover really illky people, the 18-26 crowd with their premiums are covering the costs of the people with pre-existing conditions

      • I will never forgive ObamaNation for taking our one shot at inclusive health care (Hillary) away from Americans. They have screwed us, our children and our grandchildren all because they couldn’t deal with the idea of a female leader. It’s unforgivable.

        • Yup. Health care was my single biggest issue in 2008; even the GOP knew they had to improve it somehow.
          Along comes Obama who makes it worse than I could have imagine. Way to go, mister.

    • Wellpoint was the main player. And yes, this is all total and complete BS.

    • Does condemning rate above or below a sternly worded letter?

  3. That’s supposed to say:

    Didn’t a Wellpoint Vice President write the health care bill?


  4. Great post DT… lots of stuff there to think about.

    I found these today:

    Obama’s Glass House
    “America’s discontent may stem in part from suspecting that the administration thinks we’re stupid, fearful, cowardly racists. Preachers and professors have it hard as presidents. They sermonize too much. Finally the public gets tired of being lectured by those whom they increasingly see as no more upright than themselves. Prophets crumble from feet of clay, and stones shatter glass houses. So it was with Woodrow Wilson and Jimmy Carter, and so it is now with Barack Obama.”


    And this:

    Larry Summers is leaving and Barack wants one of those Girlz to replace him!

    “Now, when Barack is looking for leaders, he never has to say, “I want you to find me one of the Boyz to fill this slot”. No sir. That only happens when he needs a Girl, because there are so few of them around him, somebody must have said, Hey Barack! We need to put a girl in one of these important slots, so let’s put one where things are so fucked up, she’s practically programmed to fail. Then she will work so damned hard to fix things, we can’t lose. Just like in real life! And we can probably pay her less too! Beside, you used their bodies as bargaining chips all year and pretty much set their health care back by about thirty years –and now you need them to vote in November for your bull again, you know what I mean, Barack?! We gotta get us a genuine Girl in this slot! ”


    • The National Review isn’t my idea of a reputable source, and Victor Davis Hanson? Give me a break! There is plenty of rational criticism of Obama out there. Try Firedoglake. They’ve gone “full metal puma,” as Dakinikat puts it.

      • I stopped getting feeds from FDL because I was tired of reading the overly racist remarks and scolding regarding those opposed to the location of the GZM.

        Personally, I think it is wise to read items from all different types of sources…and filter out what you want and don’t want on your own…

        As for FDL, I will begin reading it again eventually…I just am taking a “break” from it at the moment.

  5. great round up !

    Remember Obama got the Pentagon to investigate the impact of DADT before he wanted to do anything about it. Well, they haven’t finished investigating yet.

    this only makes the 1,00000000 investigation …why not create a “blue ribbon” panel of hacks to gin up a report no one will read , just for something different ?

    • Thanks. And yep, as soon as the Pentagon investigation is over, look for another committee/panel. I can’t believe anyone actually thinks Obama really wants to make that decision. He’s the “present president” after all.

      • Amen to that. Wasn’t it about a year ago that the mood disorder Troll was promising it would be a done deal by Thanksgiving? Koolaid can be a wonderful drug for those poor souls who can’t handle reality.

    • The Jesse Jackson Jr thing is just stunning.

      His “fund-raiser” is now dishing to the investigators, admitting Junior was present at the meeting when Blaog’s people were offered $1 million for appointing him, plus $5 million in fundraising after his appointment.

      Not to mention that he flew a “girlfriend” up who attended that meeting. (Yes , he’s married with children). FBI has the airline receipts.

      THIS man thinks he can run for Chicago mayor?


      • I didn’t know he was running for mayor, but I don’t see why any of that would keep him from holding office in Chicago. He’ll fit right in.

        • LOL You may be right, BB. 🙂

          $6 million in fundraising pledged in return for the Senate seat. I’ll be eager to see if the feds pursue this now that the Jackson fundraiser is singing like a canary. I know I read awhile ago that Reid actually called Blago to ask him NOT to appoint Jackson Jr. (from trial records).

          We’ll see if Holder “fixes” this one or not, eh?

      • I remember when some of the Obots at Buffoon Juice were gushing about how Obama was “different” and wasn’t corrupt like Hillary because he was an outsider.

        I pointed out that he was from Chicago, and expecting him to pure and uncorrupted was like looking for a virgin in a house of ill-repute.

        In Chicago an honest politician is one who stays bought.

        • I am pretty sure that he meets or even exceeds that definition. He certainly isn’t about to do anything that would be inconvenient to his banking and corporate masters. You know, like work to create jobs.

  6. I hope O’Donnell is prepared…but how can anyone be? Being Palin’s” mini me” means horrifying media heat from the elite . Letterman’s staff is crafting his zingers now

    • She’s being accused of spending campaign funds on personal expenses. That might be a little more serious than the witchcraft in hs crap.


      Despite what the wingers claim, CREW has gone after both Democrats and Republicans successfully in the past. They are the ones who started the investigations into William Jefferson.


      • I’ve prepared reports as a Treasurer for a woman in Nebraska who campaigned for the U.S. senate and I can attest to what I’ve seen on the CREW site as being illegal.

        O’Donnell was poorly vetted by the Tea Party as a candidate. You can’t put people out there who break the law and not expect the press to go after you when it’s a national office.

      • People do time for what New Christine did with campaign funds.

        She’ll say that she’s being targeted bcz she’s running for the Senate, but, sheesh, sh should not have done what’s alleged.

        If not time, then big, big fines. Will the Repubs pay those for her? I think not.

  7. This is great:

    “Although Jon Stewart and the Daily Show are known for political satire, they also do real news reporting. The following is an outstanding and unbelievable example…If you ever wanted a clear illustration of chutzpah, this is it.
    Hiring temp workers, at minimum wage with no health insurance to protest against WalMart. Truly breathtaking.”

    The video clip is fantastic!


    • Perfect!

    • Also on the NoQuarter site:

      VALERIE PLAME and JOE WILSON’s movie, “Fair Game” — starring Naomi Watts as Valerie and Sean Penn as Joe Wilson, and directed by “The Bourne Identity’s Doug Liman — hits theaters on November 5th. After the Bush administration destroyed Valerie’s CIA cover (and her assets), NoQuarter’s Larry Johnson ceaselessly, valiantly fought for Valerie and Joe and condemned the dangerous tactics of Bush’s henchmen.

  8. The White House weighed in Tuesday, condemning Anthem corporate parent WellPoint Inc. and others that plan to stop selling child-only policies.
    “It’s obviously very unfortunate that insurance companies continue to make decisions on the backs of children and families that need their help,” White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said at a news briefing.

    See, this is why you need a public plan. Because insurance companies are the EVUUUHL devil??? Nope. Because they are what they are, which is a profit-making enterprise. And they are correct that if they continue issuing child-ony policies for a pool that will consist of nothing but extremely ill children, they will lose tons of money. They’re actually right about that.

    Personally, I think that if you are not going to go public, if you are going to try something market-based, then DO that. Don’t fake it. If you are going market-based, then you have to accept from the outset that they have to make a profit. Set it up so that there is intense competition, larger pools fro the get-go, etc, so that it is in their self-interest to do it.

    As market-based solutions go, even McCain’s and Paul Ryan’s ideas are better than this crap. All Obama really did was hand out a lot of new edicts and demands to the insurance companies to cover more, and tell everyone they have to buy insurance.

    So we got neither a public plan, nor a market-based reform that might actually be marginally better then what we had. Brilliant.

    • Exactly.

      “It’s obviously very unfortunate that insurance companies continue to make decisions on the backs of children and families that need their help,” White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said at a news briefing.

      What’s very unfortunate, Gibbs, is that your boss didn’t use his power to push through legislation that would block insurance companies from doing this.


      • President Obama took out Single Payer HR 676, took out The Public Optionforbade discussion about it too, even to reporters if they wanted access (Charlie Gibbs couldn’t ask about it or his selected audience), and he killed the Medicare Buy In.

        I am just wondering if they are going to give him a Peace Price for allowing the Insurance Companies to rob us blind, while dying children are not offered coverage and while others will be forced to pay a fine because they can’t afford the OVER PRICED insurance and will still be uninsured. Oh, and those over 45 will continue to die because they are the least likely to afford coverage and well President Obama blocked the Medicare Buy In even though they are most vulnerable to illness and death.

      • Also, it’s just simple economics. IF you are going with a private insurer based plan, then you can’t mandate extra coverage for pre-existing etc a full 4 years before you expand the pool to everyone. Because then you skew the risk pool to the badly sick for 4 years, which fucks the profit/loss scenario all the hell. You have to have healthy people in the pool for it to work.

        Again, I am no fan of insurance companies. I want a public plan. But if you weren’t going to do that, then any idiot could have seen what a train wreck this alternative was going to be.

        But the 4-year gap was not a practical decision, it was a political decision. They thought they could skate by and have everyone cheering them for more coverage before the “bad” parts like the individual mandates kicked in AFTER the 2012 election.

        The morons didn’t consider that profit-making entities will behave like profit-making entities not because they are morally evil, but because that is what they are. Any fool who has ever run a business or even worked for a business could have told them that.


      • Not to worry. Obama/Gibbs/Sebelius will send those bad, bad insurance companies a very STERNLY written letter. (And then take campaign contributions behind the scenes)


    • Honestly, after this nonsense which brought me an 80+% (in addition to the prior years 23% increase) premium increase, I am now seriously planning a trip to Canada to get my medications.

      The story forgot to mention that most businesses renew in July, so we really don’t know what else is coming down the pike to crush us.

      You are correct and it reminds me of the snake song from the 70’s, only problem is we are the ones getting bitten.

    • Personallly, I wanted a public plan that was market based. We know Medicare is efficient. What we don’t know is if the public market ,if forced to by a competing government entity in order to survive, could improve its efficiency.

      Instead of making things easier by federalizing health care they kept the same crappy state pools. They didn’t standardize forms or much of anything. And apparently what they did standardize was so laughably pathetic that the large insurance companies(the very same ones state regulators have had difficulty getting to comply with state regulations)have decided to ignore parts of it.

  9. SALT was for ‘curing’ gay people and Christine was the President and Founder!

    “I think that that’s a very tacky approach. I never said that Mike Castle was gay…I don’t endorse putting out rumors that Mike Castle is gay.”-Christine O’Donnell

    “You know these are the types of cheap underhanded unmanly tactics that we’ve come to expect from Obama’s favorite Republican, Mike Castle. You know, I released a Statement today saying, Mike this is not a bake-off. Get your man pants on.”-Christine O’Donnell

    1) Women in the Military “By integrating women into particularly military institutes it cripples, of the um, the readiness of our defense. Schools like the Citadel, train young men to confidently lead other young men, into a battlefield, where one of them will die. And when you have women in that situation, ah, it just creates a whole new set of dynamics, which are distracting, to training these men to kill or be killed”-Christine O’Donnell

    2) CONDOMS DON’T STOP THE SPREAD OF AIDS “A lot of the money that we’re spending goes to things that we know will not prevent AIDS, but indeed will continue to spread the disease. When a lot of our money goes to distribute condoms in high schools and a lot of our money goes to material that is literally pornographic.”- Christine O’Donnell

    Hemm, I wonder why she stopped giving national interviews!?!

    • Remember when Obama was campaigning with Donnie McClurkin?

      He’s another “pray teh gay away” idiot.

      • Yup, I remember….

      • Good point. What a bunch of hypocrites. Here’s salt in your eye.

      • Not to mention how involved Obama and his Pentecostal buddies were in the Prop 8 fiasco.

        And you KNOW which side they were on.

      • Christine O’Donnell is a FeMANist!

        Palin quoted Albright on there being a special place for women like Christine O’Donnell who don’t support women in the military! Women were even pilots in the WWII and have given their lives for their country and have just this month been inducted into service in submarines. Christine is another Colin Powell (DADT) who is trying to block the doors of the military with misogynistic ideas of women and willing to block the doors of the military to women.

        • Well let’s just burn that witch at the stake!

          And all those other millions of men and women that share her views too. We’ll purge everyone who isn’t ideologically pure.

        • Um… I think I’d hold off on some of that until one finds out if those are still her views. Because the only things I see getting quoted about her are crap she said 10 to 15 years ago, nothing current. And her current statements have been along the lines of “I was newly converted and newly zealous, but I’ve matured.”

          You know, those on the left who were very radical and extreme in their youth, but have since achieved some common sense, get a pass. Ever heard of Bill Ayers? There’s a long list.

          I have no idea if she still holds any of those views. I haven’t investigated that closely. But it’s funny to me that no one seems to care what her current thoughts are, or even be asking her questions about what she believes NOW, and what she would plan to do as a senator NOW. That subject is carefully avoided.

          And I wish I didn’t have to do this, because I don’t agree with the woman. But why do we have a nutcase R running for NY governor who has RECENTLY said and done things that are fringe, and extreme, and hateful, and batshit crazy, and the national media barely peeps about it? But the woman gets crucified for being flaky 15 years ago. They are both conservatives, so why all the focus on her?

          • It isn’t just her views, she was the activist leading the charge and that is a totally different point of standing. She wasn’t Betty Sue living her life and having those views on Safe Sex, Women in the military, women’s role and ‘curing’ gays…she was THE LEADER of the organization on the ‘curing gays’ propaganda.

            I haven’t heard her address the issues in a cogent manner, i.e., given the science, Human Rights issues…I now hold these new beliefs. The I will follow the constitution bit doesn’t go to far with me, as the Supreme Court ruled that corporations had personhood and could spend endless money, where us REAL persons have limits.

          • I guess for a pass or even clearance there needs to be more than a sound bite..

          • WV, if she still holds those views, then she needs to be called on it. I wouldn’t vote for her in any case, regardless.

            My focus is more that even if she does, there are plenty of male conservatives who hold them also – but the national press does not paint them as ZOMG BONKERS NUTS WILDLY INSANE!!

            The treatment of a rigidly conservative woman is different from the treatment of a rigidly conservative man.

          • Her position on AIDS Funding and Safe Sex Education was national and those views contributed to much of the hatred that people with AIDS faced. I had to be certified via the Health Department before I was set loose to discuss AIDS/STDS Prevention and she was out there rattling off without looking at the scientific data available.

            Trying to get approval for AIDS hospice was like trying to put a nuclear plant inside the city, and the hate was horrid.

          • WV, I understand that. Really, I do. My point is not whether she holds loathesome views now, or even then. I’m not supporting her.

            My point is questioning why conservative women with extreme views get treated differently by the press than men with the exact same views, overall. Because they are not called batshit crazy and “out there”, they are called “staunch social conservatives”, which sounds so manly, ya know.

      • Re: McClurkin episode

        That was when I realized I could never vote for Obama.

      • It’s a dirty little secret in liberal circles that the black community has a big homophobic and even gay-hating element.

        And they never call it out, and they never address it like they do the white fundies.

        • Bishop Eddie Long Denies Sexual Abuse as Plaintiffs’ Lawyer Promises More Evidence

          The Atlanta mega church bishop now under fire in a sexual abuse scandal denies he ever had sex with two teenage boys.

          This is a MEGA CHURCH Leader who did rallies against Same Sex Marriage and well now this story breaks. There is a lot of conflict about this story and it is all over the news this morning.

          • Considering that the teenagers in question were old enough to consent, that is strange.

          • Minors can’t give consent to be Abused. If the allegations are true and he needs to be prosecuted.

            Same Sex Marriage is between two loving adults, just as heterosexual marriages are.

          • The teens were 17 and 18 at the age the abuse allegedly occurred. That’s above the Georgia age of consent. So technically a minor can consent(although I completely agree with you that it’s ridiculous that we consider 16 too young to vote and too young to enter into contracts based on their ability to make judgments and yet we’ll allow that they are old enough to make judgments on who to enter into a sexual relationship.)

        • It’s not even a little secret. Actually Republicans have always thought about engaging the Black community by reminding us how all hate the gays.

          There’s actually some black journo I read who made a good point about MLK’s niece: He said she wasn’t out of the mainstream among us with her views, but that her biggest mistake was to hang out with the execrable Gelnn Beck.

          • Oh, I know it’s used for strategy by the R’s. But it’s secret in the sense that you don’t see it openly discussed and denounced by the mainstream liberal press or blogs, who will cover in great detail homophobia in white fundamentalism. There is a “don’t ask, dont tell” policy in effect among most liberals regarding homophobia in the black community.

          • Yep. It’s on the “down low.”

            It was the Black conservative churches in California that rallied the voters in California to defeat Prop 8.

        • Yes, indeed. One of my big pet peeves. I spoke up about it in my liberal Methodist church after Prop 8 and I swear, barely anyone would look me in the face for weeks.

    • WV,

      views like those are outrageous ONLY when you can point to those on our side.

      As soon as you point to those on the Rightwing side who espouse those, especially if it’s Palin and some of her “protegees”, you’re the one who gets called out.

      • It is not outrageous when my dog pees on the corner of my couch. It sucks, and I hate it, and I complain, but I am not outraged.

        I am, however, mad as hell when my boyfriend starts lifting his leg and doing the same.

        That’s the difference, mablue, right there in a nutshell.

      • MABlue,

        You know I love you, but you get called out because you’re concern trolling. You misinterpret things people say, because you’re reading between the lines of people’s comments.

        Most of us are no longer Democrats, and we don’t have to defend what the Democrats do. Most of us are still liberals though, and to characterize all Conflucians as Palin supporters *is* trollish.

        It’s OK to register your disagreement and your objections to comments, and it’s fine to argue with people. It’s always a better argument if you don’t mischaracterize what they say though. But you just can’t be the sole arbiter of what people discuss here at TC.

        If we didn’t talk about Sarah Palin or the other tea party candidates at all, we wouldn’t be covering what is happening in politics. And it is perfectly legitimate for people to point out that right wing women are often the butt of sexist jokes and distortions of all kinds.

        If you have strong criticisms of a TC front pager, you should contact that person privately to air your objections.

        • Easy there BB.

          I wanted to make a couple of disclaimers but it just makes my comment unnecessarily long.

          These aree just some of my observations and I’ll respond to yopur criticism in a bit.

          • mablue, I know that the source of your angst is deep worry for your country. I argue strategies with you like hell, but I don’t doubt that for a minute. You’re no kool-aid drinker.

          • I was referring to your comments in Wonk’s diary yesterday, MABlue. Sometimes you just won’t let go. And Wonk’s post was really about Bill Clinton more than Sarah Palin. You should argue and you should point out that right wing sources can’t be trusted much of the time. But please try not to accuse people supporting Sarah Palin’s views when they obviously don’t.

  10. Guess what? Apparently “the world” thinks we’re spoiled brats for not adoring Obama

  11. Time Magazine:

    25% of Americans admit to checking their mobile devices during sex, 29% think it’s fine to check them during weddings, and 41% during family dinners.


  12. Aide to Saxby Chambliss leaves threatening comment on blog post on DADT: “All faggots must die.”


  13. Absentee voting here began last Friday. Didn’t even notice. I wonder if the timing is in the same ballpark around the country. So it begins.

  14. 9,838,318 hits so far. Getting close. We’ll have to have a 10 million hits party.

    • A few more Sarah Palin posts and we’ll hit that by the weekend.

      • lololol.

      • LOL. Just the complaining about more Palin posts makes that worth it alone.

        • I’m thinking a big post all about Bristol Palin on Dancing with the Stars. 🙂

          • I think that her dancing to “Mama Told Me Not To Come” was freaking hilarious. Good choice of song.

          • I haven’t watched DWTS since Tom Delay was on the show.

            Watching him shake his wild thing nearly blinded me.

          • Bristol did great and looked fabulous. It was a really cute routine. I’m sure ObamaNation was disappointed that she pulled it off. The fact that they hate on a politician’s child really shows them to be the complete asshat misogynists they are.

          • And I loved that Sarah was there and actually cheering her on. You go girls!!

        • It’s good if you’re a right winger–frighteningly so to this liberal.

          • She’s right about one thing – neither party wants to change the system. They both want to be in charge of it, but they like the system just fine the way it is.

            The Tea Party wants to tear it down and start over.

          • myiq, both parties are in bed with the corporations. And every 2-4 years we have a big fight, because the Dems want to have a more powerful govt in charge of doing what is beneficial for the corporations, and make corporations a subsidiary of BigGov Inc.

            But the R’s think that this govt/corporation partnership would work much better if the corporations themselves just called the shots and then supported the entrenched power structure of that friendly government.

            So basically, the argument is never about whether they should be in bed together at all, it’s merely an argument of who gets to be on top. No one in the establishment has any intention of stopping the orgy.

            Many teapartiers DO see this, albeit from a stridently libertarian perspective. They DO want them out of bed together, and the status quo torn down, though they see it as more gov’s fault than business’s fault. And that is the thing that is so terrifying to TPTB.

            Which is a big reason why I wish the left could go after our establishment like they are going after theirs. No, we do not agree on most stuff. But can you imagine if TWO populist movements upset the apple cart in both parties, hitting from both left and right? After it was all over, we would still have to argue over the role and scope of govt – but at least it would be we the people arguing, not Goldman Sachs and BP.

          • Government that works for the people. How come the left never talks about that anymore? It’s all– you have failed to push the President hard enough so it’s all your fault.

    • We could reach 10 million hits by this weekend. Our numbers are up lately.

  15. A couple of days ago, I was attacked for using the word “retarded” to explain why supporters argued Teresa Lews should not be executed. I tried to explain that that is the term used for the diagnosis in the DSM IV and in the latest psychology textbooks. It is also the legal designation and the one that was used in the article I quoted in my post.

    Now today, I see that Bob Woodward is referring to Hamid Karzai as “manic depressive.” The clinical designation for that is “bipolar disorder.” And it would help us understand Karzai’s condition if we knew if he has been diagnosed with bipolar type I or type II.

    • LOL!

      You’re bringing way too much seriousness to this stuff.
      Why don’t you just let us use the terms gratuitously as we aleays have.

      • You missed the snark font.

        I’m not the one who was complaining. I’m the one who was attacked. So I don’t really have control over that. I’m going to try to avoid posting about the topic in the future until I can find a new term that accurately describes the disorder.

        • The trendy “PC” thing is to use “letters” impotence is ED, etc…etc..Mental Retardation is “MR”.

          The psychology of the “Pearl Cutchers” would be an interesting topic. Most of the time, their feigned shock only reveals their ignorance and self- absorption.

      • Why won’t you let us talk about Sarah Palin without assuming we support her?

        • Oh no! Another question I have to respond to in a bit.

          I have one important email to send out and I’ll be back el quicko.
          You just hammered me above with concern-trolling. Nothing could be a worse insult because I rather stay out of a thread completely.

          • Well, I have to go out soon, so I probably won’t be able to read your responses until later on tonight.

    • sometimes the R word is correct even if it’s politically incorrect. In the last few years I have seen retarded people called “autistic” …I ‘m resounding to this because I am dyslexic and was briefly involved with the Orton Society years ago ….I saw a very interesting thing then. Parents would often admit only to a less awful state . It was fairly rare for parents to admit how bad their child was effected…they clung to the rung above and it was considered taboo to point that out…and far be it from me to chomp on one of these parents coping mechanism . I don’t know if this lady is retarded. If she doesn’t need a diaper, I would say no. just imo

      • I agree paper doll. To question parents of handicapped children for wanting to cling to “the rung above” (=hope against hope!) would be cruel and unacceptable.

        Besides … I’m impressed by how well you cope with/have overcome your own ‘handicap’. You could have fooled me. 😉

  16. OT:Arabs Harass Female ‘Peace’ Activists; Left Silences Victims

    “It turns out, she explains, that when female peace activists from Israel and abroad come out to Judea and Samaria and demonstrate against the Israeli “occupation,” they are assaulted sexually by the Arab men whom they have come to help. ”


  17. BB,

    before responding to all of your accusations (some of them really hostile) I reread your reaction above (@10:30am): Jay-sus H. Kee-rist!!! No wonder there’s no brick left anywhere: You bundled them all and dropped them on me. What was that?

    Lemme start with the easiest accusation before coming to the big one.

    I was referring to your comments in Wonk’s diary yesterday, MABlue. Sometimes you just won’t let go.

    On that entire thread, I had ONE Palin-related comment:

    mablue2, on September 21, 2010 at 9:19 am Said:

    It’s just that I have a Palin fatigue and I was in the mood to chat since I’m taking the week off.

    We’ve just had way too many Palin posts lately and they are draining because many of her fanatics live in a “fact-free” zone and many advocate for someone who advocate for pretty much everything they say they are against

    On the ENTIRE thread I had 3 (three) comments, and here are the 2 other:

    mablue2, on September 21, 2010 at 8:24 am Said:

    Oh no!

    I’m heading for “ze hills”!


    mablue2, on September 21, 2010 at 3:05 pm Said:

    What is this animosity towards Bill Clinton?

    Now, onto the really heavy one.

    to characterize all Conflucians as Palin supporters *is* trollish.

    When did I do that? I always talk about the overall tendency and wonder about the cognitive dissonance, but you always take it personal. I normally stay out of Palin posts because I don’t want to find myself in a position like this. (If you haven’t noticed, our commentariat is way pro Palin and we probably feature more pro Palin posts that any blog safe for ConservativesforPalin. That may annoy me but it gets the blog rolling. I’m far more tolerant that you give me credit in your entire rant.)

    you just can’t be the sole arbiter of what people discuss here at TC.

    You really think I’m so pretentious? Why would I try to dictate what should be discussed on a blog where I’m a regular commenter at best?

    it is perfectly legitimate for people to point out that right wing women are often the butt of sexist jokes and distortions of all kinds

    When did I ever object to that?

    It just seems like you have become allergic to ANY contrarian position I may take. I’m starting to feel like a still tolerated member of a club who’s but one “misdeed” away from being thrown out.

    • One more thing I need to respond to:

      If you have strong criticisms of a TC front pager, you should contact that person privately to air your objections.

      For the record, I don’t have ANY strong criticism of ANY TC front pager. As I’ve said to some of you in private, I admire the fact that you guys get this blog going because I don’t know how you do it. I’m sometime taken so much by my job that I can’t even comment here, but some of you keep churning post after post.

      Any comment I make her such be taking as just an opinion about the issue and nothing personal.

    • No one has suggested you be thrown out. You’ve been here since before the paint was dry so we know you’re not just some Obot troll.

      But you’re more than a commenter here – you have front-page posting privileges if you choose to use them,

      If there are topics you aren’t interested in or that annoy you then ignore those threads. If there are subjects you think deserve attention then write a post of your own about them. I think everyone here realizes that you don’t think too highly of Sarah Palin. That’s okay, groupthink is for Obots, not us.

      But other people are interested in her and she’s in the news a daily basis. This is a political blog and we talk about current events and Palin isn’t going away anytime soon. If you have Palin fatigue now then you’re in deep shit because the 2012 campaign starts in six weeks.

      Rather than arguing your points over and over in the comment threads, why don’t you post a rebuttal on the front-page laying out your point a view on Palin in a single document?

      A single post won’t take up that much of your time.

      It’s up to you

      • Those are all points I wholeheartedly agree with.

        As I said, I don’t think we should not discuss any given topic.
        My “Palin fatigue” was related to one thread, because the day before I participated on Palin-related discussion and I actually had fun doing it. I just didn’t want to get into another one and that was that.

        Rather than arguing your points over and over in the comment threads

        Where does that come from? I consciously try to avoid that. I may respond to different people on related topics but I really hate to hijack a thread.
        In addition it takes me very very long to even get into some of these discussions because I always end up swimming against the stream or having to fend off some accusations.

        • mablue,

          You basically chose my diary to argue with myiq as he is the one who posts the most about Sarah. Since it really wasn’t about me, I tried to stay out of it. But, seeing as what happened on my thread has come up again here, I thought I would say my piece.

          My post was about the Clintons moreso than it was about Palin. I’m a Clinton stalwart. I thought that was glaringly obvious.

          While I like Palin’s moxie in standing up to the Karl Roves and other GOP establishment turds and I think she communicates with her rightwing grassroots and responds to what they want— I am NOT Palin’s grassroots.

          I do NOT and would NOT support Palin politically.

          I’m not going to include a little disclaimer with every post and comment that I make. I already go out of my way to make it very clear that Obama and Palin do not have my vote, only Hillary does.

          Please stop and think for a minute that a lot of us are Clinton supporters who saw what Hillary went through and don’t want to condone a similar treatment of any other woman, no matter how much we disagree with her politically. I think the Clintons, especially Hillary herself, are mindful of that too.

          I don’t defend the womanhood of Mama Grizzlies against sexism and classism because of their politics. On most issues, I couldn’t disagree with their politics any more than I already do. And, just to say, there is also a lot of assumption, misinformation, and disinformation out there though about their views, so there are actually some issues where a Mama Grizzly’s real view would surprise most people. But, I digress.

          The bottom line is, I don’t defend them because of their politics. I defend them against sexism and classism because of MY politics. And, I’m tougher on the left because I expect more out of the left–because I want the left to be the best it can be. I don’t want the right to be the strongest it can be, frankly, so I don’t bother with much constructive criticism on that side.

          I’ve seen the left obsessing about Palin as a personality for the last two years and just making her more relevant than she would have ever been if they would have stayed focused on the issues and policy disagreements instead of treating Sarah as their own personal punching bag. Not only does that cede the moral high ground once again on being the “party of women” but it also has the effect of ceding all the populist anger to the right.

          The left is so hyperfocused on running against Sarah as their Get Out of Jail Free card that they aren’t addressing the populist anger from the left. It is morally and strategically stupid to disproportionately spend this much time going after Sarah as a person and not do anything to criticize Obama from the left and put pressure on him to be a better president. They are letting the right wing’s criticism of Obama be the loudest criticism in the room and it is pushing Obama more and more to the right.

          • I defend them against sexism and classism because of MY politics.

            It’s not like we don’t discuss these things at length, either. If anyone wants to know why someone feels the way they do, just ask. But ignoring everything they’ve ever had to say on the subject for some reductivism about “fantatics” and “dems bad, repubs good”? Possibly not so fair or productive.

          • The bottom line is, I don’t defend them because of their politics. I defend them against sexism and classism because of MY politics.
            Just brilliant!

          • For Heaven’s sake WTV!

            How can you say this?

            You basically chose my diary to argue with myiq as he is the one who posts the most about Sarah.

            Again, I had THREE comments on your thread, and they are all re-posted above.

            I think by now, I know you well enough here to figure out where you’re coming from.

          • I understood you only had the few comments, but the Palin fatigue comment felt like a very loaded comment and it seemed to have more to do with myiq’s posts on Palin than my post. My post had a picture of Bill and Hill dancing at the bottom for pete’s sake. I said nothing when you made the Palin fatigue remark, because I figured you really were just tired of discussing Palin, so why discuss it more. But t,hen I came back and read this thread and read that you think we have a “pro-Palin” commentariat and more posts supportive of Palin than any blog other than conservatives4palin. So, pardon me sincerely, for being unsure if you understand where I or others here are coming from.

          • I said in my reply to myiq that my Palin-fatigue was just due to the fact that I had discussed the subject. In retrospect, I think I was afraid it was going to turn into one of those thread.

            You went on make the point that it was more about the Clinton and I believed you. I did not come back to argue with you (yet BB said “Sometimes you just won’t let go.”)

            After you posted your response, I kinda regretted my initial reaction. I came back on the thread to post just ONE more comment and it was in reaction to HF’s hostility towards Bill Clinton.

            Where do you see me arguing anything?

          • Sorry, I didn’t state myself clearly there. I meant argue as in picking/starting an argument. It just felt like a loaded statement.

          • MaBlue, The thing is, whenever you say stuff like “Sarah Palin fanatics,” I sort of tend to think you’re directing it at me, Wonk sort of seems to have thought it was directed at her, other people probably thought it was directed at them, etc. It’s not that we’re paranoid, it’s that we don’t necessarily have any such thing as a “Sarah Palin commentariat” to the best of our knowledge. So maybe if you drew attention to the behavior that’s upsetting you directly, instead of being so general, we’d have a better idea and be able to address it instead of wondering if we’re being called out and for what.

          • It wasn’t. I don’t benefit from those arguments because they’re sometimes draining for me.

            i don’t think I need to make loaded statements with you because I think I can engage you in any discussion.

            Maybe I was just egotistical: I was in a chatty mood and I thought we’re about to get in a thread that would force me to stay off the discussion.

          • This isn’t my first time at the rodeo, so I know I have a better chance of being hit by an asteroid than having you talk to me, 🙂 but I just want to clarify that I’m not trying to tell you what to do and I could certainly be wrong, but it just kind of seems like the hostility that you feel being directed your way is a function of the fact that nobody really knows who you’re talking to with the general stuff, and as a result many are taking it personally and having a slight negative reaction, either on our own or on someone else’s behalf. *shrugs* That’s all.

      • good idea myiq. I like the back and forth with mablue, even when we don’t agree. I don’t think anyone is trying to run him off. At least I hope not!

        And yeah, sometimes you have to accept that you have a minority opinion, even among those who are generally on the same side. There are threads that I simply don’t comment on, because I know that I am going to vehemently disagree, and I’m a minority, and I’m not changing anyone’s mind. A few of the religion threads have been that way. But I don’t make a stink, I just avoid it, and I don’t take it personally.

        My rule of thumb with most stuff where I’m in the minority in a discussion is that I make my argument once or twice, and if no one wants to agree I leave it at that. If I want to discuss those things with those who are more open to my point of view, then it’s a big internet – I can find ’em. I love TC, but I’m not locked in to any particular peer group thinking just like me.

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