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      Let’s run thru the most likely possible victories in the upcoming federal election and consider what they mean for America’s future. Put them in 4 baskets. Trump wins. He does more bad stuff, situation continues to get worse, American post-WWII style multilateral hegemony and trade order takes huge hits. Biden or Harris win. Harris will […]
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The Nutroots Are Nuts


Ian Welsh violates the “what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas” rule with an eyewitness report from Netroots Nation:

I had a good time in Vegas, so I didn’t spend a huge amount of time at NN, but I did spend enough time to take in the mood, and it was schizophrenic. About half the people there are some combination of angry, disappointed and bitter with Democrats in general and Obama in particular. This group sees him as not a heck of a lot better than George Bush, and in fact the Democrat who extended some of Bush’s worst policies, especially in civil liberties. This includes a lot of feminists (angry at what they see as betrayals on abortion), many Hispanics angry at the continued harsh enforcement of immigration laws, gays who feel Obama has betrayed clear promises on gay rights, anti-war activists saddened by escalation in Afghanistan and elsewhere, and a mishmash of folks who think health care reform was a dog’s breakfast and that the general way the economy and financial reform has been handled is a disgrace.

Then there are the folks who would characterize themselves, in general, as hard nosed pragmatists and “realists”. These range from the “Obama is the greatest liberal president since FDR” types, who think that the Obama is just wonderful and those progressives and liberals who don’t agree are simply delusional to those who feel that a lot of what he’s done has been watered down pap in general but that it’s certainly better than nothing and that those who are disappointed are unrealistic idealists who simply don’t understand the constraints Obama and Congressional Democrats are working under.

Apparently those of us in the “we told you so” contingent didn’t receive our invitations. Or maybe we threw them out with the spam we still get from the DNC, MoveOn and all the other crooks and sell-outs.

There’s a lot more at Ian’s blog, and don’t skip the comment thread. (Obama’s Troll Army has been recalled to duty)

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196 Responses

  1. We didn’t receive our invitations, but half of THEM now thinks like us anyway! I had a good laugh at that piece!
    OT: today’s tabloids
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2010/07/28/tabloids-corruption-and-confusion-wednesday/

  2. I should warn people that Mandos the Troll has found a new home with Ian since Lambert gave him the boot. He’s still the master of the word fog.

  3. Robert Gibbs Asked if Obama has Assurances Hillary Won’t Run in 2012

    • heh, heh – he needs assurances and fluffed up pillos. We’ll see if Wall Street directs the media to do so again.

    • “I uh, uh, ah, um, I am unaware that this president needs any assurances about his secretary of state.”

      ???

      does that mean the fundraising fix is in and the donors dare not step outside the lines that Obama has laid down? Is he going to issue bills of attainder?

      This sounds suspiciously like George Bush in 2004 proclaiming that he was going to win reelection. It’s like he knew the election was fixed in advance. Remember that?

      • It was fixed, wasn’t it?

      • I was thinking along the lines of whether they were intending to keep her as SOS for the next election. This has got to be a complicated decision for them.

        • I think she has said before that she probably would not stay on as SOS.

          • Yes, and so if they intended to replace her, they will need assurance somehow that she is not a competition to them. I’ve thought for a while pressure to have her run makes it harder for her now.

            And who would they replace her with that would still get him the votes? Or would they dump her after the election?

            Can you imagine the campaigning she and hubby will have to do if they don’t retire after this?

        • I thought she said she was only going to do SOS for one term.
          BTW, isn’t Obama invited to Chelsea’s wedding? I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the invitation list was discussed.

      • I think that sounds like a threat.

      • Yeah, RD. And remember how creepy GWB was in 2000 when he claimed he would win Florida — this while the state had already been claimed for Gore by media outlets? I had gone to be that election night thinking Gore had won, but was shocked in when I tuned in during the wee hours of the morning to hear that “W” had “won” the state.

  4. not a heck of a lot better than George Bush

    ten years from now, they may even adopt my “Jr.jr” term. Sharp as a tick them nutroots.

  5. I’ve been learning to knit this summer (addicting!) so I am officially a bitter knitter. And I just want to say to the oboti: “Who’s bitter now?”

    Hillary/Sarah 2012!!!!!

  6. I don’t think they could have stopped us from going but why should we bother? I went in 2007 and warned them during the last open thread session that they were in danger of succumbing to emotional manipulation. They didn’t listen then and they won’t listen now. They have to work it out themselves and personally, I don’t want to be around the smug, self-righteous assholes while they do it.
    That’s probably why Ian went gambling.

    • They’re now the rejects of a failed infatuation, and most won’t admit it. They still idealize the beloved, and don’t know where the love went.

    • They don’t even realize that a very large portion of previous “netroots” Democrats was gone long ago. Ian Welsh comment:

      Hilary wasn’t discussed that much, at least by the people I talked to. There are some who think she would have /been/ better, but the Netroots as a group were never big behind Hilary, as you know.

    • Not only couldn’t they have, they wouldn’t have wanted to.

  7. They split the Democratic party in approximately two equal halves in 2008. Now they are splitting the the half they captured in roughly half. That means about 25% (give or take) of pre-2008 Democrats are still on the Obama bandwagon. That is a rapidly dwindling pie. Not only can Obama not win elections with that pittance, he won’t be able to get any decent contributions for the library in Chicago (or Hawaii). Lame duck is an understatement. Next we will be asked to feel sorry for him.

    • Ah, yes, divide and conquer from within. I swear Karl Rove was working for Obama. Remember how he resigned about a year before the presidential election? Maybe he was working on a new project. How much you want to bet he had a hand in getting Hillary dumped by her own party? Imagine all of the calls he placed to Wall Street. Just think about the psychological research he did to find out where the progressives were most vulnerable. Plant some moles on DailyKos and in the campaign operations, turn on the money spigot and watch them self-destruct.
      It’s much easier to believe that Karl engineered it than to think the Democrats managed to do it on their own.

      • Only to the koolaid drinkers.

        They haven’t a clue what THEY did to the Democratic Party. Blaming Rove is a copout.

        Hoist on their own arrogant petards.

      • Karl Rove did not have to lift a finger. The talentless but well connected did it all on their own. Never to my knowledge has a power seeking group AKA a political party consciously and viciously exiled most of their own supporters. They effectively killed the golden goose. This is how political parties die and it couldn’t happen to a more wrongheaded and incompetent bunch. As a side note and item of some hilarity locally, two of our nastiest and aggressive Obots who co-opted the local Dem Party were to run for low level offices to kick off their brilliant political futures. One was fired from his law office and skipped out on his rent and lease, and the other one is living in his father in laws pool house while his wife and kids live in the house with her parents. Neither of them filed to run for anything including party officers. Nothing seems to be working out according to their delusions.

      • I have to agree…. there’s a who behind all of this.

        No way these asshats were smart enough to do all this on their own.

        • lol! They couldn’t run a birthday party, much less a political party! nutroot numb nuts!

      • I’ve thought that all along. It seems to be working out pretty well for the Republican party despite Bush Jr.’s disastrous administration. They knew they couldn’t win, so Obama was the next best thing.

      • I have always thought that!

      • I’m totally with you on that theory, RD! A what was up with Donna Brazille’s new-found frienship with Rove? She claims they had been emailing each other for two years (I believe) before the primaries. Also, throughout the 2008 primaries and whenever Rove appeared in the msm, he would give BO advice on how to win this or that state. Moreover, when BO finally snagged the WH, I found it suspicious that both BO & GWB bragged that the transition of power would be the smoothest in history. I suspect that the GOP/Rove cut a deal with the DNC/BO to allow a victory for BO if his admin and Congress would not prosecute GWB and Rove for their war crimes and national security treacheries (i.e. Plame). Within this conspiratorial context, it is not surprising that the GOP powers that be were lukewarm toward McCain and wimpish toward BO during the GE.

        • Trixta’s scenario makes quite a bit of sense to me.

          • It makes a lot of sense, especially considering the unlikely link between Donna Brazille and Karl Rove. Did Donna have anything to do with the Gore campaign lying down like a submissive puppy and not fighting for the win? That was so infuriating at the time, but makes sense when we start connecting some of the dots.

            Oh, and after we get them all connected, they spell YOU’RE SCREWED!

          • Me too. And I had the most creepy feeling watching the Axelrod and Rove say essentially the same thing: that Obama would be the winner.

      • I’m totally with you on that one, RD!!

  8. What goes around, comes around.

    • LOL! The Republicans should save their money. The Democrats self destructed in 2008. Here’s the moment it happened, the results of which are still rippling through the party:

      I think I might have pointed this out before but Harold Ickes is the son of FDR’s right hand man who was instrumental in carrying out The New Deal.
      So, there was a lot of symbolism in Harold’s opposition but they knifed him and Hillary anyway.
      Republicans can relax. It’s going to be a cakewalk.

      • Sigh…that was such a great moment. Finally, someone spoke the unvarnished truth, Ironically, FDR’s own grandson was running the committee meeting.

        • With regard to FDR’s grandson . . .

          I need to say that although I believe FDR was one of our greatest presidents (maybe the greatest) and Eleanor was our greatest First Lady, their children and grandchildren (with maybe one exception) were and are worthless human beings/

        • It was a great moment of truth telling, but it reminds me again how fixed this was. Did you notice Brazille sitting there with her head leaning on her hand as if she was so bored she was about to nod off? Ickes was fighting for right, and DB knew it was in the bag. It makes me sick.

          • imho, Ickes was fighting to put it in the record there for posterity, in case the truth ever came to light. I don’t think he said any of that expecting it to make a difference in the short term outcome of the primaries. Most Dems knew what was going to happen going into that “hearing.”

      • Thanks for posting this again.

        That was the moment, combined with Brazille’s patronizing stupidity about “my mama’s beans” that I said, No More.

        I don’t think they understand it, even now.

      • Brings it all back.

      • For full irony, FDR’s grandson was on the RBC committee and also devised the Fla, Mi punishments. As well as wrote the HCR
        http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/insurance-ceo-fronts-obama-steals-election-for-him-writes-hcr/

      • I sitting here looking at this tantalizing piece of video and feel the need to point out something for what I believe is still a large chunk of the population out there.

        I can’t view it on dial up. Nor could many of us view it when it occurred, because it was on CNN. In most places I know, in order to view CNN one must have paid TV. I sitting here looking a this tantalizing piece of video and feel the need to point out something for what I believe is still a large chunk of the population out there.

        http://roofingbird.wordpress.com/2008/07/26/buzzz-part-two/

        Does anyone have a transcript of this?

        • Well. that was a mess. Cutting and pasting half asleep, I guess.

        • Excellent post, and an excellent point. In the early days of the web, it was bad form to ignore slow connections. Now? Not so much, to everyone’s loss.

          • Aw shucks! Thanks, Quixote!

            I’ll just say that as a dedicated member of the free air TV still available in Solano County, it is already starting again.

            I have seen some Fiorina ads, and I am bombarded with the new “Meganomics” including the “Failure of Brown” and her past ads in the primary. However, I have yet to see a single Brown or Boxer ad.

            The Repubs are understanding this problem better than the Dems -especially when we are treated to the pontifications of the “700” Club every day.

            It’s amazing we continue to get a Dem turnout. The county has over a 12% unemployment rate and parts are higher.

    • The rings are annoying. They need better tones/rings.

  9. Hey, myiq, did you know that we’re now crybabies and that TIIC are planning to throw us Elizabeth Warren to pacify our fragile psyches so that we’ll go back to volunteering and canvassing for free? How tenderly and affectionately they refer to us. It almost makes me feel ungrateful to the party and Obama for holding out for real Change! I should probably go put myself in time out for a few minutes and then apologize for expecting better employment opportunities and healthcare and gender equality and stuff like that. I mean, Obama is only human (well, NOW he’s only human, During 2008 he was a transcendent demigod).
    I feel so ashamed for feeling unashamed.

    • You’re just an idealist who doesn’t ‘really’ understand how government works. Geesh.

      • Granted, I spent only 3 years on the school board before i resigned due to the exhaustion of working a full time job, caring for an infant, taking classes and staying up until 2 in the morning to argue with a bunch of belligerent Libertarians about why they should build a new high school now at a lower cost than 5 piecemeal solutions and years of classroom trailers at a higher cost later.
        Yep, I know nothing about political realities and entrenched establishment idiots and budgets and running a campaign. Oh, sure, it was only a school board but I still had to convince a township of 30,000 people to vote for me.
        I’d like to see the likes of Booman try that. I mean, without calling people who vote for his opponents crybabies.

    • Does that mean we’re crybaby racists, or have we moved up in standing and are now only crybabies?

      • No, we’re still racists to them. But after the sherrod incident last week, it will be politically incorrect for them to openly display their judgmental condescension. Their shot got a bit wild. They have to cool it for awhile.
        They’ll have to talk among themselves for the forseeable future.

    • When I hear “crybabies” and “get out of your depression”, I automatically think: code words for dem/prog/lib women who aren’t toeing the line. When I read that Obama will be a guest on “The View” tomorrow, I know he is back in his “feminist” t-shirt superficially promoting that image all the while undermining women in the bills he pushes, or in the absence of passing the FOCA. It’s a given that these two men don’t read feminist, or those with women’s equality one of their dem principles, blogs. Even though I’ll be voting on issues in November as I always do, this mid-term election should be a teaching moment for Obama and his minions, but it won’t be as long as they ridicule the opposition as “crybabies” and depressed.

      They need to follow Hillary’s example and listen to the people, women included. It reminds me of that movie, batteries aren’t included (or did I dream it?). In their world women aren’t included or are the second tier to call in when their man needs their votes. Ain’t getting my vote!

      • And a necessary ingredient in this toxic elixir: make it “cool” to be an Obot. Everyone else is a square. That rounds up people real fast. And women fall for this quickly, otherwise they risk hearing “you’re no fun.”

      • The View is insulting to women. Really. It’s a ditzy show. Whoopy (‘It wasn’t rape, rape”, and “Mel isn’t a racist”) is the brain of that show. Enough said.

      • I got 99 problems but Obummer ain’t one. 😈

      • I think your “claws” are just coming out because you’re “feeling down.”

        ‘member that wonderful line?

    • Geez, that was a horrible place to go RD. I feel like I just got pooped on and told to like it.

    • It’s apparently the fault of the “Joe Liebermans of this world” (does this include Joementum’s protegee, Obama?)

    • They can kiss my ass.

      I’ll take Elizabeth Warren and still not votefor him. He lost any chance of my vote by extending the conscience clause and throwing low income women under the bus. Oh and those NEW voters he’s counting on……..he can fugetaboutit…….The 2 I raised won’t be voting for him.

  10. It this weren’t so utterly pathetic, it would be laughable. Chuck Todd is presented as one of the few noble ethical journalists left, just sick over the Journolist situation.

    Journolist veers out of bounds

    Chuck Todd, political director and chief White House correspondent for NBC News, who was not part of Journolist, told me this:

    “I am sure Ezra had good intentions when he created it, but I am offended the right is using this as a sledgehammer against those of us who don’t practice activist journalism.

    “Journolist was pretty offensive. Those of us who are mainstream journalists got mixed in with journalists with an agenda. Those folks who thought they were improving journalism are destroying the credibility of journalism.

    “This has kept me up nights. I try to be fair. It’s very depressing.”

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40308_Page2.html#ixzz0uypNe6Hu

    • Wow! He was mixed in with activists. They LIED to him. Somewhere in the archive, we are sure to find an email from Todd to Ezra that asks to be taken off the list and all of his emails purged toot sweet.

      Again, the Republicans are wasting their time if they think they can peel more of us away from the Democrats because of the Journolist revelations. We gave up on the “journalists” on the list long ago because we already knew what they had been up to. And, surprise!, we have not become Republicans or sympathetic to their causes in the meantime. The Journolist archives are not going to make us sit out the elections in the fall in any greater numbers than originally planned.
      We already knew the party was stocked with snobby assholes. BFD.

      • I think what many don’t get is that we can still be bleeding heart liberals but not be captured by the Democratic Party. News to them, the Dems aren’t liberal. If you’re a liberal, you’re independent IMHO. And you vote for candidates of any party who are liberal and who aren’t asswipes. We’re picky.

    • Ohhhh! I just realized that Todd is worried about keeping his gig as a wage slave to some corporate media master. Poor guy probably has a wife and kids and mortgages and braces and stuff. Getting fired and being associated with wrongheaded progressive activists who are aspiring to be the new Elves definitely has the potential of sucking the life out of his lifestyle.
      Welcome to the working class, Chuck! Myiq, send him a new members package in the pink slip wrapper.

      • Bingo. The Journolisters used to be his BFF’s, until exposure.

        Todd’s looking to distance himself now for his own survival.

        • Ehhh, so the so-called liberal media is purged of some members and replaced with more conservative toelickers.
          It’s not like we pay any attention to the media anyway after 2008. I haven’t watched network or cable news since the presidential campaign and I don’t miss it at all. The propaganda from both sides was grating on my nerves. If it all goes Fox, so what?

          • They won’t be purged. Being consistently wrong about everything is the ticket to job security in the media.

          • except the reason this story is being pushed is to royally piss off the Hillary voters, turn them off to the “liberal” journalists that are left and make us distrust anything that smacks of supporting the Democrats. It’s strategery.
            They’re wasting their time with us though because we haven’t found the journolist bunch credible for years. But maybe they see us as a weapon to use against leftie journalists. The more we pee on them, the more links we’ll get. We’re supposed to be the fatwood that unleashes the media firestorm and the political operatives that point fingers to the vast left wing conspiracy.
            In the end, liberal journalists will think twice about doing or saying anything that supports liberal causes. And while it makes not one whit of difference to *us*, there are still millions of Americans who get their news from those kneebiters.
            Personally, I don’t want to be used.

          • Todd and Journolisters don’t give a sh*t about you or Hillary voters, RD—you’re old news. You have nowhere else to go, in their minds.

            They’re only concerned about their own butts, now. Their own careers and position in the pecking order. That Todd tosses them under the bus speaks volumes.

            Obama’s visit to The View, however, is ALL about luring the Hillary voters back. He’ll be charming, just for you. 🙂

          • Mary, there is nothing Obama can do to “charm” me back short of asking me to take up arms against an invader from space.
            And I *do* think that some people on the Journolist care whether we jump on this bandwagon. Maybe they don’t care about us personally but they care whether we stay neutral or not.

          • I think there may be some fear because we’re wild cards and therefore a threat to the legacy parties.

            We were smart and lucky enough not to get snookered. The last thing they want to do is see our numbers grow.

            Both legacy parties bore me. And they’re right to be afraid, I do mean them harm. If I can get rid of them both I will and I tell everyone I meet just that.

          • “against an invader from space”

            The “progressive” blogs are trying to make Palin the functional equivalent of that. 👿

            I, for one, welcome our moose-hunting overlords. 😈

    • Laughable is right. Journalists are destroying the credibility of journalism, not anyone else.

    • Tod didn’t need to be on Journolist. he had a direct line to the campaign, was probably getting daily talking points to spew on teevee.

    • Now if Chuck Todd would only get off his knees when it comes to BO and tell it like it is.

  11. I just saw the movie where the Obama Troll Army (OTA) had a big roll. Zombieland. It was great. The OTA should have gone the movie route a long time ago.

  12. (Obama’s Troll Army has been recalled to duty)

    Well we knew that would happen. They reconstitute them in kool-aid as needed.

  13. OT: The new financial regulations bill signed by The One as “transparency for Americans….”

    actually EXEMPTS the SEC from any FOIA requests (citizens or media). They are only subject to disclosure if Congress requests information.

    Written into the fine print of the Dodd/Frank bill, in a secret backroom deal, which no one read, but they all glorified this bill as CHANGE and TRANSPARENCY.

    The SEC has been exempted from public disclosure.

    Feel screwed? You should.

    • I was going to post that. Will we hear a peep about this obvious secrecy and corruption from our “media”? Nope.

      You do realize that the SEC can now collude with the banks and cover up any damn thing they want, and NO ONE can access any of those records? They can rob us all blind and manipulate the markets at will, sucking what little we have left into the black hole of the vampire squid. The looting of the middle class will be complete.

      That’s it, folks – our govt is now not just overly influenced, but a wholly owned subsidiary of the financiers. All because the People are stupid enough to buy the notion that “any reform is better than no reform”, and blindly and emotionally support shit without reading what is actually IN THERE. “We all hate the bankers, so lets pass something!!!”

      The left keeps shoveling more power to the govt, thinking they can protect us from the financiers, and the right keeps shoveling more power to the banks, thinking they can protect us from an abusive State.

      BOTH CAMPS ARE WRONG. Big Money and Big Govt are in bed together, and raping us all blind. And both the left and the right keep arguing over which of that monster’s maws to feed us all to, rather than trying to disassemble the monster.

      • All true. Reckon Tweety or Olbie or Madcow will cover this information tonight?

        (snort)

  14. I just read this (somewhat hagiographic) post on Noam Chomsky at TruthDig. I have to admit that I haven’t really been a fan of Chomsky. I’m not a pacifist at all costs. I still think retaliation against Afghanistan was the right thing to do, though the execution and occupation was screwed up from the very beginning. Sometimes, you need to defend yourself or the rest of the world will take advantage. Nevertheless, invading Iraq has to be the single most stupid thing this country has ever done and Chomsky is right about how the country got tricked into it. Some of us saw through it though.
    But I think that Chomsky the linguist gets to the heart of the problem with the country today. I have tried to figure out what makes us different, why we didn’t buy the nonsense about Obama. I’ve always thought there was something about our individual backgrounds that make us more sensitive to signals that others miss. We tend to be outsiders and ornery bastards. But which came first? The outsider status or the orneriness? Maybe there is something about us that makes us ornery. I’m beginning to think the sensitivity we have for bullshit has something to do with our facility with language. Maybe we have a form of linguistic aspberger’s syndrome that causes us to be irritated with language inconsistencies.
    Well, it’s the best I can do right now. Further research is warranted. Maybe Bostonboomer has some insight.

    • We can tell shit from Shinola.

      • Basically. That’s not to say that we are perfect. I’m sure we get things wrong occasionally and there are facts that we are not privy to that can take us off course.
        But our track record of getting things right, being resistant to propaganda and being able to detect it quickly and accurately *should* be a valuable resource. What we need is a business model.

        • I was kidding about the business model.

        • I’m not arrogant enough to presume we have all the answers, RD. Heck, we often disagree amongst ourselves on what the answers should be. What I do see on this blog, however, is people who see clearly enough to ask the right questions. And sometimes that’s half the battle.

          It’s something that our press and some bloggers both left and a few right used to do, before they all decided to go all rah-rah and merely cheerlead for one side or the other. Groupthink is dangerous, especially when asking questions or criticizing is couched as betrayal of one’s ideology by peers. That way lies self-deception and servitude. I’m glad that TC, though not perfect, has largely avoided that trap, and has focused on truth and hard questions, rather than the politically tactical.

          • But Groupthink is not unique to our generation, WMCB. Remember the witchcraft frenzy of the 17th century? The rise of Nazism?
            There will always be resistors, people who can’t submit to groupthink because…. why? What makes us different? I’m inclined to believe that there is a nature component of it. The question is, can it be taught?

      • Con men say you can only con people who want to be conned. I doubt our sh*t detectors are much better. We just have less need to believe for some reason. Probably for as many different reasons as there are of us ornery outsiders.

    • Oh, naw, rd, Obama came off to me as a slick pursuer after only one thing!

      • Me, too. All Axelrod marketing. Glittery. Shallow. Bamboozler.

        Didn’t need Chomsky to tell me that.

        • Did I say you needed Chomsky to tell you that? No, I’m interested on what is it about our brains and the way we process language that makes us different from our peers.
          I’m convinced there is a difference and this difference is very valuable.

          • I don’t think it’s about processing language.

            It’s about common sense, and enough “people” experience to spot a con from a mile away.

            “We are the ones we’ve been waiting for.” That made me laugh out loud from the git-go. And it came from fluffy New Age “this is my favorite bubble bath” Oprah.

            Gimme a break.

          • I’m not sure if it’s language, or perhaps that we tend to be self-reinforcing. We’re used to being loners, and are confident in our own ability to form thoughts and opinions. We tend to not need a lot of affirmation from others to tell us what we really “hear” Being ostracized is not a new or intimidating experience for most of us, and our self-worth is not wrapped up in anyone else’s pecking order.

            One of the things that struck me most about the Journolist conversations was how pitifully hungry for affirmation from their peers they all were. Even those with some tentative objections or insights quickly cringed away and made groveling obeisance the moment the group reacted badly. The mindset seemed to be that the opinion of the group far outweighed their own objective analysis. Not a one of them has any confidence whatsoever in their own ability to observe or process data.

            It struck me because for all their arrogance and bullying as a group, they are the most fearful, easily cowed, milquetoast individuals I’ve come across in a long time.

            Those here on TC are the opposite. We don’t have all the answers, but what truth we know we arrive at as individuals, by what our own eyes and ears and intellects inform us, not simply because we are fearful of ostracism. We process language as what it is, what it actually says – rather than through an internal filter of what we think our peers will think is being said.

          • At least one component is experience. The youth are more susceptible to emotional manipulation. So are the people who have lived in echo chambers (especially, those living in Ivory towers) and haven’t dealt with hard reality.

            Their tactics weren’t genius. It was marketing, geared towards pear pressure at a enormous scale. You are cool for supporting O, and O is cool for having cool supporters. He is talking about ‘hope’ and ‘change’. Gee, no other politician ever thought of that, did they? But without media hatred of Hillary, (and their tingling legs with regard to him,) he wouldn’t have been anywhere.

            It’s similar to certain electronic gadgets that everyone has to have, because they are ‘cool’. After all, how many ads do you see that are informative? How many more do you see that shows a guy lifting a car after drinking a pepsi? It’s about creating emotional connection.

          • yep, all that and something more. I can’t listen to the news anymore. I used to be a faithful NPR listener since I was in college but about 5 years ago, I had to turn it off. It made me physically ill to listen to it. The language artists had infiltrated it. The words they started to use had very specific connotations and the result was to skew the news in pernicious ways.
            It’s a more subtle and sophisticated form of propaganda, uniquely tailored to the demographic that is listening.
            It grates on my ears when I hear it. Every media outlet has a different variation. And I am now primed to hear them all. Once you catch on, you can’t turn it off. The question is, can you teach other people to recognize it?

          • I remember when I first saw all the wet panty comments about Obama start showing up. I was still a regular at Buffoon Juice, which isn’t exactly a Harlequin Romance blog.

            After reading all the jizz-in-their-pants comments I took a good long look at Teh Precious. My reaction was “I don’t get it.”

            This was before I learned anything negative about Obama, but all I saw was an inexperienced rookie senator whose main claim to fame was a couple of speeches. But his speeches never impressed me too much.

            As my grandma would say “He sure talks pretty, don’t he? Now change it to Wheel of Fortune and fetch me another beer.”

    • RD, we think for ourselves. We deflect the talking points, the framing, the propaganda. We look deeper. Raise your hand if you searched for hours on the internet for posts/articles about Obama. You realized early that the media wasn’t vetting him and you would have to do it yourself. How many of you found no records and wondered why? or skewed puff pieces? We watched every debate and most of his other tv appearances. All along we were also vetting the other candidates. We continually judged the candidates and independently made our decision. (Ok, I’ll admit that I was an objective observer until NH)

      I hold the hokey, old-fashioned opinion that it is my civil responsibility to study the candidates before I cast my vote and to choose someone whom I believe is the best person to lead this country. I’m a dying breed.

      • Exactly peregrine. At my blog I did a feature during the 2008 primaries called “Better Know a Candidate.” I started it before I became a Hillary supporter and continued it after.

      • Yes, but the journolisters and the netroots nation folks also think they are rational and independent thinkers. Nevertheless, they got Obama wrong and we didn’t. And let me tell you, the kossacks I met in 2006-2007 were very smart people. The collective IQ of las Vegas and Chicago rise substantially when yearlykos came to town. So, it is not a matter of smarts. And peer pressure and the need to be accepted is only one part if the story. No, there’s more to it than that. We have a knack for not being taken. We see clearly. Or hear clearly. Whatever it is, we’ve got it and they, unfortunately, do not. But my question remains: can it be taught? Teaching would be wasted on the journolisters. They’re special, or so they think. Can it be taught to the average Joe bagodonuts?

        • the nutroots who didn’t catch on in 2008 are more commonly known as
          s-u-c-k-e-r-s

        • rd, you know why they didn’t measure Hillary as highly as we did. Why they didn’t value her intellect and capabilities as she was running circles around him in the debates.

          The question is: Can they unlearn what the American culture has taught them?.

          • That’s a good question. Desperation has a way of broadening one’s options. Another year of dwindling job opportunities may make Hillary look good to even the most intractable Clinton hater. They may start screaming for a do over of the nineties.

    • I saw that comment re: Chomsky over at the comments part MIQ reffed.
      Weimar redux. I think so. It’s the climate going on right now that makes me feel that way plus the economics. I look at Az and I can see what this bad economy is driving.

      Scary. For some reason post 2008 this whole country seems divided. I don’t think that would have happened with Hillary. From the piece above:

      http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/noam_chomsky_has_never_seen_anything_like_this_20100419/

      “Chomsky reserves his fiercest venom for the liberal elite in the press, the universities and the political system who serve as a smoke screen for the cruelty of unchecked capitalism and imperial war. He exposes their moral and intellectual posturing as a fraud. And this is why Chomsky is hated, and perhaps feared, more among liberal elites than among the right wing he also excoriates.”

      It’s when he discusses who will be scapegoated in that article, it really gets scary.

      There was a little blip on the news yesterday about the Clinton’s marriage and she is wearing a Gunne Sax dress — off the rack! As a contrast to her daughter’s bazillion dollar deal. These millions being spent? The Kerry boat deal?
      I feel that the Democratic party is a lie. Right now. I do.

      Google Gore Corexit and see.

      Hmmm.

      I don’t trust the Democratic Party post 2008. I really don’t. That point RD made about Republicans winning? They might because of what the Dems did.

      Look what I found. I was 12. It happened here. Then I grew up, and I became a Democrat. A feminist Dem, who sent women to Washington. The way I see it now? They all failed me. Really. They failed themselves, and the times we lived. Including the Clintons.

      I was one of those little kids flashing a peace sign…

    • Finely tuned BS detectors.

  15. I did have a good time sending NN attendees tweets with provocative questions regarding Obama’s record…

    Especially when Van Jones declared that Obama
    “became captain of the Titanic after it had already hit the iceberg”…

    the punchlines wrote themselves.

    LOL

    • Hmmm, isn’t Obama going to be on The View tomorrow? Assuming that the Obama PR team hasn’t preconditioned the interview, what questions would you want the ladies to ask him?

      • I’d avoid any left-right type questions and focus on the administration’s continued defense of court cases against the Bush Admin.

        “If you were elected to correct the mistakes of the Bush Admin, why does your DOJ continue to claim ‘state secrets’ in court”

        Followed up with:

        “Why did you vote for immunity in FISA?”

        That oughta bring out “Annoyed Obama” in a millisecond.

        • They’ll just ask him about his relationship with Michelle, their parties, and their outfits.

          • I’m sure he has a message he wants to deliver to the crybabies who wanted Hillary and have stopped working for the Democratic party. We have to figure out in advance what he’s going to say to soothe our ruffled psyches and persuade us to come back into the fold.
            Any guesses? Somehow, he’s got to make the Republicans look nasty.
            You *know* they’re up to something. Let’s predict the memes. Can we review that recorded message from Obama to the NN crowd? It’s probably some variation of that for the housewife crowd.

          • Or what Bo eats for breakfast. Sheesh

            Even Rendell said The View is not a “presidential” type place to visit.

          • I’m sure Joy will ask him a softball policy question to “shut up” the complainers.

          • Mary, what we see here is an act of desperation. Obama is going to make a personal appeal to the disaffected Democratic women out there. What he’s going to say is a variation of “who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?”
            And a lot of people will be swayed because he’s THE PRESIDENT. He’s taking the time out of his day to come and talk to them because he *needs* them. He needs each and every one of them. It will be like magic mirror on romper room. He will be reaching out to Mary and Susan and Heather and Kate. And gosh, darn, doesn’t it feel good to be needed? To know that you can make a difference in the lives of someone you know? Someone who may be unemployed who is getting the shaft from the Republicans? And he would love to put Elizabeth Warren in as the head of the consumer financial products agency. She could look after all your personal finances and keep you from being sucked dry by the banks and other ne’erdowells. But the evil Republicans are threatening to derail her nomination. Obama can’t do it without everyone out there making a committment to support the Democrats. Yadayadayada.
            Ok, now, let’s figure out how he’s going to deliver this message.

          • Oh , I get all that, RD.

            But I’m not even gonna watch.

            I’m too old to be hustled anymore. And I suspect the women he’s trying to con , after the last 2 years, won’t give a damm either.

            But that’s just me.

          • Thats were he thinks the wimminz are. Especially those annoying daytime soap opera types who DID decide to turn repub.

            I think that’s how he “Views” it. lol, bad joke I know.

          • Heh

            Yep cuz that’s what thenew wimmen feminists want to know about…..I mean who cares about birth control when you can learn the secrets of toned arms?

      • What are you planning to do about the loss of our scientific infrastructure to asia and Europe?

        • move with it

        • I doubt he would even know what to say to that – seriously. But, I don’t think that kind of question would be asked since it will be preprogrammed like you said.

          • Oh, I know they’d never ask him that question. It’s just the one I’m interested in at the moment.

          • Funny how the “creative class” never worries about the real creative class that actually, um, CREATES tangible things.

            Knowledge and technology are power. And they are blithely disarming us.

        • Are you guys and gals trying to make me laugh? The idea of Joy Behar asking that question just hurts my head!

          • Who’s Joy Behar?

            Just kidding. My mom made me watch The View when I went on vacation with her once. It made me want to rape and kill.

      • Since Obama is openly worshiped and continually praised by the ladies of The View, I don’t imagine anything will be asked that might make him attempt to form a thought on public television.

        • Yes, and they will only want him to “look like one of us”. That’s the whole reason for being there. And, you are right ….. he is absolutely worshipped by the ladies on The View no matter what is done.

      • RD, here is an answer to you.

        Of course, he wants to appeal to women voters. Here are my predictions:

        “Michelle is the one really in charge. She is the really smart one, and she picks my ties for me. ”

        “The best decision I made was marrying Michelle.”

        “Michelle looks great, don’t you agree? ”

        “I feel that women work very hard, and all hard working women, including Michelle, deserve a vacation in Spain, and all the designer clothes money can (or cannot) buy.”

        “Michelle makes fun of me, and brings me down to reality. ”

        And so on and so forth. Each sentence, of course, followed by applause from the hosts and the audience.

      • Remember when Michelle went on the view? BBC News had this headline
        Obama not pathetic, insists wife
        It was changed very fast so I had to preserve the moment

      • “Do you think it’s appropriate to address women as “Sweetie?”

        • Or this: How do you feel about Sarah Palin’s family being trashed by your supporters, while you insisted your family be off limits?

          • He’ll probably say something like “I’ve always said that her family should be off limits…” referring back to the below

            (Obama is always “above the fray” with plausible deniability, while his machine does all the dirty work)

            http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-defends-p.html

            News Senior White House Correspondent Jake Tapper

            Political coverage and musings on pop culture from ABC News Senior White House Correspondent Jake Tapper and the ABC News White House team.

            Obama Defends Palin’s Children and Faith

            September 09, 2008 7:02 PM

            LEBANON, Va. — “Why don’t we join with the Republicans and agree that children, families of the candidates, religion of the candidates, is off limits,” asked a Virginian tonight at a town meeting with Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

            “Let me be very clear about this, and if there are members of the media who are listening, I hope they hear me loud and clear,” Obama said. “I have said already that people’s families are off limits. They are civilians and they didn’t choose to run for office, and how qualified we are for office … isn’t determined by what our children do. And I’m very protective of my two kids. They’re 10 and 7 and at some point I expect they’re gonna make a mistake. They’re not perfect, although I think they are and I don’t want them, particularly if I’m successful and I end up being in the White House — I don’t want them to not be able to make mistakes or live … out their childhood without it being in the papers.

            “So, family, particularly children, I believe are off limits,” he said.

            “Now the second thing,” Obama added. “I’m a Christian and I believe deeply in my faith.”

            The crowd applauded.

            “So, the fact that Gov. Palin is deeply religious, that’s a good thing,” Obama said. “You know, I give her all the credit in the world for that, and for people to start poking around and trying to, you know, paint that as if it’s, as if it’s strange and wrong, I think that’s offensive. I don’t think we should be doing that.

            “Now if she’s got positions or John McCain’s got positions or I’ve got positions or Joe Biden has positions, public policy positions, that … are part of government’s function, then I think it’s legitimate to have a debate about those positions, but don’t give people some sort of religious litmus test,” he continued, “because I don’t want somebody to question my faith and I’m certainly not gonna question somebody else’s.

            “I feel very strongly about that,” Obama said. “This is a nation of believers. This is a nation of believers, and I’m one of them, and we may not agree on every single aspect of our faith, but what we can agree to is that faith is important in our lives and it shapes our values, and we should be respectful of each other’s faiths.”

  16. Clinton (Hillary, of course)/Palin 2012! (one can dream can’t one?)

    • That would be like taking a dolphin and fusing it with a meteorite. They don’t relate and this so-called dream ticket could never exist. Oh, sure, they both have elements in common but they’re not from the same planets.

    • That’s not a dream. It’s a nightmare.

      • More like a fantasy. It’s right up there with flying horses and The Rapture.

        • Dinosaurs in a literal garden of eden

          • I don’t care who is running….. I will never vote for Obama and may never vote in the Presidential election again. Unless of course Hillary runs.

            Until then ~ I will no longer be cowed by the Vote for Us We’re 2% Less Evil Party of Where Else You Gonna Go.

            Any candidate from now on will only EARN my vote by believing and implementing my core democratic values. I will no longer vote by default.

          • honk honk!

            Though I love the idea of two women on the ticket.

  17. About Obama’s visit to The View – I heard Bob Shrum say on my tv that he was trying to reach the Soccer Moms.

    From Wikipedia: “The phrase soccer mom broadly refers to a middle-class suburban woman who spends a significant amount of her time transporting her school-age children to their sporting events or other activities. It came into widespread use during the 1996 United States presidential election. The phrase soccer mom generally refers to a married middle-class woman who lives in the suburbs and has school age children. She is sometimes portrayed in the media as busy or overburdened and driving a minivan. She is also portrayed as putting the interests of her family, and most importantly her children, ahead of her own.”

    Personally I don’t recall its use during the Clinton years. But, now we know – Obama is losing the Soccer Moms.

    • Actually, the “soccer moms” were the ones who voted in droves for George Bush. Tells you a lot about Obama’s policies, doesn’t it. Of course, it was reported awhile back that the “new Dem. party” wants the suburban voter–those who used to be called Republicans when I was growing up.

      • Yep – first Bush got the Soccer Moms and then in the next election he got the Security Moms.

        We know which play book Obama has on his desk.

    • I remember soccer moms dating back to pre-2000. And yes, I think this is the demographic he is targetting. So, let’s put our heads together and try to figure out what he’s going to say.
      Things to think about:
      Kids first
      suburbs
      education and schools
      living on one income (stay at home moms)
      home economics
      living on NO incomes due to layoffs
      rising property taxes
      crime and personal safety
      volunteerism
      childhood obesity and hunger

      I don’t think racism will be part of the presentation. They’ve pushed that button one too many times. And besides, in the suburbs, it’s not really an issue. Schools here are fully integrated and very diverse. An african american in this suburb is likely to have the same socioeconomic profile as the Obamas.

      So, that’s what we have to work with. He’s likely to use push-pull techniques from marketing and sales. He will probably want to stand beside his viewers and try to think like them before pushing them in the direction he wants them to go, which is back to the Democrats.

      go!

      • I read that tomorrow will also be Barbara Walter’s first day back after surgery. So I think he will just act like a fawning child and have little of substance to say. The message – I’m charming and adorable. Please love me.

        OTOH – Every morning the View crew gets together to decide what topics they will discuss and who has something to say about an issue. After the team meeting Elizabeth Hasselback has a private briefing via telephone. It is assumed that she is briefed by various people at Fox News and the RNC. So, Elizabeth is the loose cannon. Her handlers may tell her to keep a lid on it for now. IOWs – I am more interested in what Elizabeth does, or does not do, than in Obama.

        • Somewhat OT: I grew up with the original SNL, so Babs will forever be “Baba Wawa” to me, thanks to Gilda Wadna, may she west in peace.

          Ooooh, those wascawwy wabbits have got me doing it now! :mrgreen:

      • Men’s responsibility with suitable moral/religious overtones
        unemployment what all that he has done to reduce it and how it is so much better than it was two months ago.

        Education and schools, esp charter.

        The BP oil spill

        He might pull an O’Henry and talk about the wikileaks and how everything bad happened before he was the Prez

    • It’s always nice to have validation for your “view”.

  18. On Chomsky, I grew up under terrible circumstances and would not have survived if I did not question every single word from the mouth of an authority figure, any authority figure. A practice I continue to this day. And have expanded to include EVERYONE. So, yeah, I’m ornery as hell
    .
    Then I took a course on Chomsky at NYU grad school, entitled Linguistics and Literature. Yes, indeed, I related. Look at the words a speaker uses. What is actually being said? Does it make sense? Is it consistent with other words the speaker has used?

    So, I’d say some of us bitter knitters are ornery by nature and circumstance AND we process language differently – and by differently I mean with care – listening to what the actual words are and what the sentence construction means, not extracting some wished-for meaning that does not exist.

    These so-called best and brightest are utterly anti-intellectual to me. No ability to think objectively. None. Quite stupid, really.

    • I smell fundy religion in your background. Am I right?

      • Nope – Presbyterian – fine little church – Be nice. The golden rule and all. Help those less fortunate. One of the few refuges I had as a child, along with my grandmother’s extensive library. That’s how I developed my own moral code – books and a little church that said we’re all equal.

        Of course, I reject any formalized religion, as there are always those damnable authority figures trying to lord it over us lesser folk. I took to heart the words I heard, though, not the political posturing. We all die; therefore, we are all equal.

        As for the blogger boyz, I was too kind in referring to them as anti-intellectual. These guys are real dummies, the kids who sucked up to the professor after class, trying to impress and be noticed. Now they’re twisting themselves into incoherent messes. They can’t question Obama – he’s the prof (ha!) they’re trying to impress to get a good grade. They can’t admit females might be smarter than they, because those females dare to question the professor. I look at them with the deepest contempt and loathing.

        • Oh, I like Presbyterians. One if the least offensive churches I gave ever been to is Nassau Presbyterian church in Princeton presided over by Rev. David Davies and his female associate pastors. He’s a good guy.

    • I think another thing we ornery types do is that we constantly compare words and actions. It blows my mind that so many Obots are genuinely surprised at Obama’s actions. His words and his actions NEVER matched. Ever. Do all these people just process words as something totally divorced from the real world, and then just pick the verbiage they like best?

      Words have meaning. They are not “things” in and of themselves, to support or not support. In the context of politics, words are merely indicators of action – a way to communicate what one will and will not DO. That’s their function. Which requires one to pay attention, and make an assessment whether those words match up with reality.

      I honestly think that we have a shitload of people in this country who cannot distinguish fantasy from reality in their own heads. Politics becomes a contest of who can weave the best script, create the best political “reality show”. It’s completely divorced from the tangible. Which is why the Obots, when challenged on REAL questions of REAL results, defended vehemently with something Obama SAID – and did so in all earnestness. They do not grasp the difference. Literally.

      • What I mean by that is when challenged about something he DID, they would immediately parry with something he SAID. And they were sincere. They really believed they had answered the charge. They seemed to have no concept whatsoever that saying and doing are different things.

      • From George Orwell’s 1984:

        They are then overthrown by the Middle, who enlist the Low on their side by pretending to them that they are fighting for liberty and justice. As soon as they have reached their objective, the Middle thrust the Low back into their old position of servitude, and themselves become the High.

        Yep, we’ve seen it before, we’ve read about it before. The idea that they are being controlled–to their own detriment–means they would have to do something about it. Orwell goes on to say:

        for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives

        I’m not sure that they *want* to grasp the difference, because then that means they actually have to do something about it.

      • I think some of them do, but Obama’s people carefully latched on to a key dynamic in the blogosphere that came out long before the election. Lots of these people want to be activists without actually doing anything. Activism is hard and boring and involves a lot of time and grunt work, and you get thrown into all these embarassing situations with people who are loud and badly dressed and NQOCD. It doesn’t matter what O says, he looks the part and supporting his fundamental goodness from afar means you’re completely off the hook. You don’t have to do anything outside your comfort zone to be a very important part of a very important movement.

      • I honestly think that we have a shitload of people in this country who cannot distinguish fantasy from reality in their own heads.

        That’s it – maybe we’re up against a mass psychosis they have and we don’t. Obots are the type of people who have given me grief all my life. I used to think they were STUPID, but maybe they’re psychotic.

      • Spammy’s got me! I don’t know what triggered it.

    • Ok, I get that.

      I grew up in a good ole Scots-Irish family…..lotta good natured “blarney” flying around verbally, for fun, and the “blarnier” it got, won. Lotta fun, actually, with no meanness in it at all.

      But the first time I heard The One say “Don’t listen to the okey-doke or bamboozle,” I knew he was doing exactly THAT. Two step. Distraction. Projection. Okey-doke. Bamboozle.

      And I knew at that moment to watch what he DID , and discount what he SAID.

      So maybe you’re right. He can’t blarney a blarnier. We recognize it every time. 🙂

    • I started on my path of suspicion of authority when I learned at age 11 that the President was a criminal. (1974). 👿

  19. riverdaughter, on July 28, 2010 at 11:26 am Said:
    I’m sure he has a message he wants to deliver to the crybabies who wanted Hillary and have stopped working for the Democratic party. We have to figure out in advance what he’s going to say to soothe our ruffled psyches and persuade us to come back into the fold.
    Any guesses? Somehow, he’s got to make the Republicans look nasty.
    You *know* they’re up to something. Let’s predict the memes. Can we review that recorded message from Obama to the NN crowd? It’s probably some variation of that for the housewife crowd.

    I think he's going to come on like a lying fake-repentant batterer. He'll admit to a couple of minor mistakes – I can hear it already, "oh, the pressure made me lose my focus on the issues that are important to you" – and then he'll promise to do more for the laydees. He'll be ever so sorry, telling them it will never, ever happen again – expecting to be forgiven by a piss poor attempt to be humble and flash that smile (which I find to be a cold and evil smile).

    And perhaps some women will forgive and get back on the bus for a short time – until he tosses them off again in November when the Dems lose big. Then it will either be the women's fault again – they deserve to get nothing, deserve to be under the bus, just like the battered woman "asked" for it by one of her "transgressions." Or he will congratulate himself on manipulating them to get them to do what he wanted.

    But there will be us – those bitter shrieking holdouts who will do just that again – hold out and say NO and mean it like we did the last time. He'll never get to us because we won't unsee what we've seen, won't unhear what we've heard, won't unfeel what we've felt….we're impervious to his manipulation and he will not be able to get us to come back to the fold.

  20. I don’t know how to blockquote or anything fancy but this op-ed is worth a read, written by Pat Caddel and Doug Schoen, pollsters in the Carter and Clinton administrations, in the WSJ today:

    “Our Divisive President

    “Barack Obama promised a new era of post-partisanship. In office, he’s played racial politics and further split the country along class and party lines.”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703700904575391553798363586.html

    • I read the Op-Ed and I think they get everything wrong. First off, post-partisanship is not what I want. I want a fighter. And second, they write the first time he used racial politics was in the Gates matter, Please.

      • pdgrey — Obama’s a fighter, he just fights dirty for the wrong things.

        There’s nothing wrong with working with opponents to arrive at a workable, if imperfect, solution that actually advances substantive progress. I mean authentically, not pretend like Obama did with health care.

        Immigration is a good example. This WaPo article was cited in the WSJ op-ed piece and I think this is typical Obama, fighter, divisive, and with a plan to attack an opponent but not a plan to make anything better:

        “Last month, Obama invited a small group of influential Latino activists to the White House and reassured them that he is committed to reform. But to succeed, he said, they had to stop their public complaining about how slowly he was moving and instead direct their fire at Republicans.

        “The activists came away from their presidential audience still convinced that he could be doing more to push the issue. But their discussion with Obama — and a lengthier one with adviser Valerie Jarrett after he left the room — made one thing clear to them: The White House plans to use the immigration debate to punish the GOP and aggressively seek the Latino vote in 2012.”

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/19/AR2010071905351.html

  21. Rather than being a unifier, Mr. Obama has divided America on the basis of race, class and partisanship. Moreover, his cynical approach to governance has encouraged his allies to pursue a similar strategy of racially divisive politics on his behalf.

    ain’t that the truth?

    • Well, they’re right about how Obama has weaponized the issue of race to derail his opponents. But both authors seem to be from the “why can’t democrats and republicans get along?” school and we have seen that blurring of the lines between the parties has hurt us. The Democrats need to start acting like, er, Democrats. You know, like actually believing what’s in thru party platform and acting on it in an upright and forceful way? Stuff like that.

      • Exactly, Riverdaughter.

      • well, we should fight on the right issues, not on saying things to corner a niche of voters

        • You mean like single payer, jobs and fair taxes, I want someone who will be a real Democrat. “If the choice is a republican or a democrat who acts like republican, they’ll vote for the republican every time, ” Harry Truman”.

          • The problem with actual, real single payer is not that it won’t work (it will), it’s that it’s too simple.

            Basically creating a national insurance, subsidizing those that need it, and cutting out the middlemen is a fairly simple task, and simple legislation. It’s a big insurance pool – how hard is that? But simple legislation does not grant them enough power. Simple bills don’t enable them to hide power-grabs and expanded agencies and plums for their overlords in 2000 pages of language.

            The Right is actually partially correct that there are massive and dangerous govt powergrabs going on. And the Left is partially correct that govt is the only feasible solution to some big problems.

            But the Right wants to hand us all over to “market forces” and trust that the captains of industry won’t oppress us, which is insane. And the Left wants to hand us over to a burgeoning and powerful but corrupt bureaucracy, and trust that they will not oppress us – and they are equally insane.

            What centrists like myself want is for govt to do its JOB – no more, no less. And I want that job specifically spelled out in legislation, because I don’t trust ANY of the fuckers in power not to oppress the people, whether they be a CEO or a politician.

  22. These two stories show the incredible irony going on right now – they really do. Spain and the $3,000 a night deal — contrasted with the submarine sandwich. LOL! Real Democrats look at all of this with a cocked eyebrow, no? We do.

    What a joke. The irony! Truly.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/07/28/2010-07-28_president_obama_readies_for_sandwich_summit_in_nj_then_heads_to_tape_meeting_wit.html

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/28/michelle-obama-holiday-choice-marbella

    I’ll vote for the first politicians who appear to really care about the country. I don’t care which party they come from anymore. Any loyalty I had in the past to the Democratic Party is now gone. Completely gone.

    • It seems to me Obama never takes a vacation anywhere unless he wants to be out of the country when bad news hits, or he wants proximity of someone he can meet with, and there will be few US reporters. (Think Virgin Islands.)

      I note your article says that David Cameron has an abode there.

      In light of Cameron’s recent comments about Israel and Gaza maybe a meet up is in order.

      Does the $3000 a night include security, etc.?

  23. OT, but have you seen Cannonfire has a new post up? (sort of)

    • I see the post is from July 23rd and I can’t see any reply from him on the reply comments. I hope he is just being a burly man and doing OK.

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