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Pretzel Logic


BTD does a awesome take-down of Boo-hoo-man:

Booman just can not accept that he is endorsing triangulation. So he invents a new definition – triangulation is NOT what Barack Obama does, even though it is exactly like triangulation:

I am going to posit that triangulation is a pejorative. It is a political act that is contrary to the interests of principled people on either the right or the left. Its use puts the immediate needs of the president over the needs of his party. It weakens his party and harms the issues for which his party stands. It’s possible to argue otherwise. Some might see triangulation as a savvy strategy that is appropriate in certain circumstances (e.g., a Democratic president faced with a Gingrich Congress). But, I believe we are correct to condemn triangulation, provided we are careful to be sure we know what we mean by the term. And we are not careful.

All of this is a prelude to Booman tying himself in knots to explain why Bill Clinton triangulated but Barack Obama is not triangulating. Silly stuff.

Then he takes a shit in his own post:

Let’s be clear (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Apr 01, 2010 at 01:30:28 PM EST

LIKE ALL POLS, Obama is acting in his own political interest as he perceives it.

From what I know, on the politics, this is a smart move for Obama.

People often think I am criticizing Obama most of the time. I am past that now. Mostly I am criticizing New Progressives mostly now.

Obama is a pol. And they do what they do.

Progressives need to detach themselves from pols.

I’m not disagreeing with anything Armando/BTD says about Boo-hoo-man and his ilk. But what BTD believes is just as bad or worse, albeit somewhat more logical.

Whether you agree with Boo-hoo-man or BTD, everything Obama does is okay. Boo-hoo-man rationalizes Obama’s actions while BTD simply gives him a get out of jail free card.

Let’s remember that BTD supported Obama because he was the “media darling” and because he said there wasn’t any significant difference between Obama and Hillary. Both men (along with most progressive bloggers) consider us outcasts because we refused to support Obama.

Neither one of them will admit that we were right about their candidate. We said Obama was a conservative wolf in progressive sheep’s clothing. We said McCain was the lesser of two evils and Obama the evil of two lessers. The proof slaps them in the face on a daily basis.

Obama supporters warned us of all kinds of dire consequences if Hillary won the nomination or McCain won the election. Pretty much every one of their predictions has come true – only with Obama.

Meanwhile just about every reason they gave for supporting Obama has turned out to be wrong. Except that “media darling” thingie.

I just turned 50 – I’m getting too old for this shit.


UPDATE:

I just realized that I neglected to mention the third way of progressive blogging. It can be summed up by what I call the “Mandos Doctrine”:

“Obama sucks, but we must support him anyway.”

164 Responses

  1. I’m sick if it too.

    That pols are pols thing is REALLY frustrating. What’s the point in voting for anyone if they’re ALL really that bad?

    Of course they are. And that’s sickening too.

    • Exactly! What’s the difference between voting for McCain or voting for Obama if they’re “all the same”? Why all the enthusiasm for Obama if he’s no different than the rest? Why does anyone have to “support” him if he’s just another politician who puts his career ahead of the rest of the nation? The Obama presidency is a disaster. What’s amazing is watching the idiots who cling to their delusions as they circle the drain.

  2. Progressives need to detach themselves from pols.

    …and choosing the media darling really helped progs detach from pols…how?

  3. consider us outcasts because we refused to support Obama

    I think “Puma Dead-enders” is actually the term they use…to be called such is almost as bad as being called a “liberal”.

    • Their loss, really. It doesn’t change my opinion of us. We stuck to our guns. And now, it’s people like us who can swing upcoming elections. I’d say we’re small but powerful now. The party knows they can’t bullshit us and that we mean what we say. Who cares what they call us?

      • I was being dryly facetious.

        I like reminding my brother that I’m a liberal, just so I can watch his face screw up and turn bright red. His daughter is majoring in psychology. I reminded him that psych was a liberal arts major. Even knowing that “liberal” and “liberal arts” aren’t the same thing, of course, I knew it would bug him. I was right. He about blew a gasket. Anything with the word “liberal” in it is a bain to his existence.

        Proud liberal, I am.

        I remember a time when true liberals woulda thought Puma was just another way of thinking…….now borg assimilation is the rule of the day. How many true liberals remain?

  4. If Obama had lost the election, would that have made Democrats more, er Democratic? Would McCain have been less conservative? Was the financial brink so scary that he would have done the right thing? He’d been in tough spots before on a personal basis. Could he have stared the banksters down?

    • {{{tap tap tap}}} Those taxes aren’t going to file themselves missy. Summer is just around the corner and you’re going to want that air conditioner.

      Just got my DD refund today. Yippeee! I’m getting my fireplace fixed after waiting 3 years.

      • Are you telling me to go away?

        • No! of course not! but tax day is almost here. I’ve been nagging my daughter to get a w-2 form to me so I can get hers done. I just can’t believe anyone with a refund still hasn’t filed. Only “owers” wait in line at the PO on 4/15

          • No, I don’t owe. I just keep forgetting to do it and scared to death that the AMT is going to bite me one of these years. I keep thinking that if this is rich, it’s not all it’s cracked up to be, what with my second hand car, old appliances and shabby wardrobe.
            So, I probably will not fall victim to the AMT. It’s just laziness.

          • I think it’s only hitting the 200K and up with major mortgage interest deductions.

          • For a married couple or a single person? Remember, we single people have the same expenses as married couples but we aren’t entitled to as much money.
            Because we might spend it on our wild and crazy lifestyles. We just live in luxury and decadence.

          • Here’s a good chart for 2009 rates. Actually it seems that singles do better under AMT rules.

            http://thefinancebuff.com/2009/03/2009-amt-tax-brackets.html

          • Plus, now that I look at the charts, we fell well within the married range yet had no impact. Our mortgage deductions were apparently not that high. It really only catches people with mondo deductions.

          • plus we have teh awesomest tax dude

          • I have the TurboTax dude. Reliable, easy to use, used it for about 10 years now.
            Intuit can just send me cash for that plug.

          • There are some things I avoid taking responsibility for and one of them has always been my taxes.

          • Pffft! I don’t worry so much. My ex-sister-in-law is an IRS agent. I don’t see them as scarey G-men anymore. They’re just doing their jobs and I follow the rules. Render unto caesar and all that. I just wish caesar would let me keep more of it so I could put Brook through school without debt.

          • I just wish caesar would let me keep more of it so I could put Brook through school without debt.

            Yeah…I wish. I’m looking at 6 figure debt by my daughter’s senior year. I was just calculating the total the other day and almost vomited. She claims she’ll “pay me back” but with the future these kids have waiting for them, I doubt it. I don’t know how people with multiple kids do it these days.

          • Why did you guys have to bring up taxes? And I was having such a lovely care free day. Splat. Better start on them tomorrow….

          • You’re not married to my husband, then.

    • McCain would have been facing a Democratic Congress. They would have been far less eager to support Republican policies and programs if McCain was in the Oval Orifice.

      Or not, but at least nobody would be calling them “liberal” or “progressive” ideas.

      • Just a lot of hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth.

        • I think they’d be complaining that they couldn’t accomplish anything because the majorities weren’t veto-proof. Reid would be whining about needing 67 votes in the Senate to really pass anything.

  5. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MYIQ!

  6. Why can’t we sue pols who do the exact opposite of what they campaigned on? One would think it qualifies for breach of verbal contract, or fraud, or at least false advertising.

  7. So…..BTD thinks he “won” because he was smarter than Booman, but neither one of them got anything but Bush-lite, cuz, see, pols will be pols.

    THESE are our progressive leaders?

    • What do you mean “our?”

      They are no leaders of mine.

      • Mine, either. But it’s ironic that more didn’t see it: Booman was pretzely naive, and BTD let the media choose, with the implication that it wouldn’t matter anyway.

        Both were wrong, and neither can admit it.

        Probably never will.

    • They are definitely our progressives!

  8. This turned out to be a huge f*cking lie:

    http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/diary/4069/hillary-in-canada

    Sure, pols are pols, but some pols actually do have principles, they have tangible things they want to accomplish. Obama wants to pass big fluffy nothing policies to build up his big fake legacy.

    • Opps…this:

      “he said there wasn’t any significant difference between Obama and Hillary.”

      • OMG! Did she clear this with Obama first? I mean, isn’t he her boss? Isn’t she subservient to him? Isn’t there a certain class of people (mostly men Sam Donaldson’s age) for whom this is terribly important? Did she follow the Village sumptuary laws and avoid designer pant suits?

        Myiq is right, I’m getting too old for this shit.

        • LOL, too funny. No, I would guess she did not clear this with the boss man. Too flipping bad for Obama. She took that conservative hack prime minister to task on the issue too. How could that possibly be Obama approved? Isn’t it funny the Canadian conservatives seem so much like Obama “progressives”.

      • then he needs glasses….lol

    • Opening up offshore drilling is not going to be a “big fluffy nothing”.

      • Yeah, I know. I just don’t think any of his policies will last the test of time. They all represent political gamesmanship and little else.

  9. BTD supported Obama because he was the “media darling”

    He was the media darling because Obama drew a more lucrative creative class audience for the media and their advertisers. It’s like American Idol. Not rocket science. The newsmedia (offline and online) have been fighting for their financial lives for the past decade, and the election staunched the bleeding. The prog bloggers were used by the campaign to fluff up media interest, then tossed out after the election. Their cheerleading won’t be useful for Obama again until summer of 2012. Meantime maybe they can do some real reporting..or whatever.

    • The media has always LOVED the type who seem to have no ideology.

      • No ideology = pro-business, pro-military

        • Yes, but, really, alot of people in the political press really don’t have much of an ideology, and they really believe if only we could all quiet down and discuss things rationally a perfect middle ground could be reached. Think Broder, EJ Dionne, etc..

    • He was the media darling because the people who own the media told them he was their darling.

      Those are the same people who financed his campaign – Wall Street bankers and other big money special interests.

      • In other words, if you hear someone is the media darling, run.

      • Exactly!

        djmm

      • Same types of people who financed Hillary’s campaign, yet she was hardly the darling. NBC (GE) or CNN (TW) are not actually all that powerful. Not nearly as powerful as the banks. The networks are fairly simple and simple minded operations. They exist to make money from advertisers by creating programs that will attract a valuable audience. Hillary’s base were not as valuable to the media as Obama’s base, especially once they got the “movement” going. The campaign funds which paid for campaign ads were important, but secondary imo. The networks made a ton more money from other advertisers who ran alongside the high quality ratings of the O movement. For cable news and other media, It was and still is more business than politics.

        • “If you can’t take their money, eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women and still vote against them, you have no business being up here.” – Jesse Unruh (D-CA)

    • BTD, iirc, believed Obama would get a better deal from the MCM (Mainstream Corproate Media) and thus would be more electable. He thought they would be merciless to Hillary and since he didn’t see that much difference between them on policies, he went with what he saw as the sure winner.

      Obama did get a better deal than Hillary got, butI I thought then and think now that no Repub was going to be elected prez and Hillary would have won handily. Even better, she was more likely to stick to Democratic principles, and if she didn’t the Dems would hold her feet to the fire while they were likely to be chary of criticizing Obama in any way whatsoever. They could see what was done to Dems who criticized Obama in the primaries.

      We can see that is what has happened basically. (Watch out for Obama going after SocSec — which Dems will stand up to him?)

      BTD sees himself as the Ur pragmatist about politics. Pols do what pols do, etc. Well, some pols don’t lie to public as much as others do, that’s fer sure as we are seeing almost daily.

      • Although the treatment of Hillary and Bill Clinton has been nothing short of vicious, I still prefer that to press’ treatment of Obama and Bush. A President has much less chance of screwing up with a hostile press that always watches them.

        Bonus number 2 (and a very important one): Hillary’s win would have made the corporate, propaganda-based media impotent. That would have been her major contribution. Of course, that’s too deep for rationalizing a*#’s like BTD to figure out.

        • Exactly right.

        • Exactly! What BTD failed to notice was that Hillary was breaking the media’s lock over the electoral process. The media was red faced and apoplectic, ordering everyone to love him and hate her, and everyone just shrugged and kept voting in record numbers. On what planet is it not a major victory for liberals to decrease the power of the corporate media? When was the last time that happened?

  10. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/papal-ally-accused-of-ritual-beatings-1932764.html

    The child abuse scandal rocking the Catholic Church widened yesterday as a leading German bishop personally appointed by Pope Benedict was accused of ritually beating and punching children at a church-run home during the late 1970s and early 1980s.

    Five former residents of the St Josef’s home in Bavaria submitted written statements to Germany’s
    Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper claiming the Bishop of Augsburg, Walter Mixa, a controversial conservative churchman appointed by the Pope in 2005, used to hit and degrade them during punishment sessions at the home.

    • I used to love Sister Seraphia’s group punishments. Such solidarite when everyone hates each other. But she favored humiliation over corporal punishment. Thank god it was only one semester in one of the 14 schools I went to before I graduated.

      • I could write a book.

        • Battlescars?
          Why would anyone join a convent in the first place?

          • These were nuns from the 60s and 70s. Black full habits and all. Scariest creatures to ever walk the face of the Earth.

          • Best thing I ever did. True story.

          • My brother-in-law started a ruckus in the boys’ bathroom at Catholic school, his lookout watched for the nun to run down the hall—-they both ran out the back door, locked it, ran around to the front (nun was searching bathroom for “troublemakers”) , locked that door, went calmly back to class and sat down. Bell rang, kids went calmly to next class, while the nun was screaming in the locked bathroom.

            Never got caught–no one told.

            It’s his very favorite story to tell. And he’s been to VietNam, worked overseas, and lived in Saudi Arabia.

            He’s quite proud of that escapade, even at 60 years old. 🙂

          • When my mom and her siblings were growing up in a very wasp neighborhood of Pittsburgh, they were afraid of nuns because they dressed in long black habits and looked like they had no feet. They just sort of hovered above the ground. They called them Goddies.

          • OK…with that one I not only spit my beverage all over the screen but I think I peed a little too. ROFLMAO.

            no feet…hovered..

            too perfect.

        • The Penguin:

          • been there…got hit like that. I must’ve been a sinner. or maybe I just missed mass and didn’t get my daily communion wafer.

          • The teachers in my junior high used to carry around their own wooden paddles with holes drilled into them so they would leaves welts on the butts of the boys and girls they would whack. Had one six foot tall history teacher who particularly got off whacking the girls under their skirts in the hallway for missing a homework assignment or two. Midwest public schools boy. Don’t want to even think about the swirlies. Think the kids from better families had it better at the parochial schools on the other side of town.

          • I had a 6th grade teacher who was a samurai with a wooden yardstick.

            I’m pretty sure he was Catholic.

          • Trust me. In the “good old days” no one had it better at the parochial school. We were all too afraid of going to hell if we told anyone the truth. Well,…some of us were too afraid. Then those of us that did try to sound the alarm were swiftly beaten for “telling lies” about the “holy” nuns. Sacrilege!

            There are plenty of recovering parochial school attendees walking around working through all of the angst ridden years of attending “Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt”

          • Yeah these teachers mostly guys built their reputations around the size and shape of their whackers, and they definitely didn’t attend church, small town we sorta knew. One day I’ll tell you about this muslim teacher I had in grade school in Uganda. Corporal discipline seemed to cut across cultures, least back in those days. 🙂

  11. Take heart, clown man. 50 is the beginning of another kind of useful rage.

  12. I loved my 50th Bday..i,m half way home…lol…

  13. Hey myiq2xu–

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

    When was it?

  14. Good VastLeft cartoon today — when every day is somebody’s fool’s day.

    (And, yes, happy b’day, myiq2xu.

    • Damn why is Hamas firing rockets again. It’s like they want Israel to fire back.

  15. Happy Birthday

  16. Okay I finally found the thread where BTD admits he was wrong about Obama.

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2009/12/15/145443/71

    • Check out the very last comment in the Buffoon Juice post he links to.

      http://www.balloon-juice.com/2009/12/15/how-much-hope/#comments

    • Yeah, but he’s like a lot of these guys in that respect. He admits he’s wrong once it’s too late to do anything about it, then without hesitation it’s off to the next hare-brained scheme to lead us over the cliff. Being wrong doesn’t make him more wary or less arrogant next go-round, the pattern endlessly repeats.

      • When you blow a call of that magnitude that badly, you should retire from publicly expressing your opinion.

        • There should be some sort of tag line for that magnitude of blowiness attached to their names from now on. If they won’t, we should whenever we refer to them. 🙂

        • Meh I was a Democrat from 2006-2008, I don’t really have any call to point fingers since the party showed signs of corruption even back as far as 2006. I personally believe that they need to invent a patch like they have for nicotine, only instead for the Democratic party.

    • Argh. I’m still out here and alive – barely. Crossing the desert, trying to find my way to the nearest oasis. Who is this BTD of whom you speak?

      • Oh hell. I’m trying to wish myiq a happy birthday on my already archaic Mac. Happy birthday!

      • BTD is a political commentator on TalkLeft. He used to post as Armando at Cheeto Town(Daily Kos). He’s friends with alot of the blogger boiz. Most of them in my opinion are completely clueless. BTD(Armando) in my opinion though has potential. He actually seems to get the concept of detaching issues from pols and he seems to understand that both sides of the aisle have self serving twits representing us.

        My husband is reading this over my shoulder without his glasses. His interpretation of what I wrote is quite humorous.

        • Would love to hear your husband’s interpretation! My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek. I’ve visited TL before. Not impressed with Jeralyn, but BTD does seem to be more aware. I looked all over the Internet for sane (those who might reflect my views) voices over the past year. : ) The TL community seems to be smart and interesting however.

        • “detaching issues from pols…self-serving twits”

          Yeah, but was the leader of the shaddup and vote for Casey/anyone with a D after his name/don’t wanna hear about your selfish issues brigade, too. I’m not saying he’s hopeless, but his epiphanies never seem to stick. He’s saying this now, but will he fall back into his default position of guilt tripping and browbeating and forget everything he’s learned?

          • Until the progs really let go of the false security of the letter D by someone’s name, until they actually detach themselves enough from the excuse that “pols will be pols”, until they stop caving to the cavers–until then, it’s rinse, lather, repeat.

          • They also need to stop voting for candidates that are “2% less evil than the other guys!”

          • I can’t see that happening, though, because if Obama loses, it’ll be to someone really bad and then they’ll go into panic mode and be willing to accept any Dem, the worse the more likely to win in their fevered imaginations, and round and round we go again. 2008 was probably our only chance to jump off the merry-go-round since halfway decent candidates aren’t exactly thick on the ground.

          • And if Obama wins, the message will be that horrid Dems are clear electoral champs. So either way, they won’t clue in.

          • No kidding – and I will not veer to the right. Not gonna happen.

          • Not only do I not see them cluing in, but I can see the children of Obots becoming old enough to vote and actually believing the narrative that Obama had no choice, he was just trying to clean up after Bush, unlike Clinton who was a corporatist.

          • Gah. I’m sure I’m filled with all sorts of fairy tales from my school days. Difference is my contrary, independent upbringing. Everyone is suspect – but maybe amusing at the same time.

          • Oh god don’t go there. 🙂 It’s annoying enough having to deal with horrible, mean little South Shore kids who’ll be able to vote for Scott Brown in a few years without stopping to consider their Obot counterparts.

            We’re doomed!

          • Scott who?

          • Lol I wish I lived somewhere where I could ask that. 🙂

          • Scott Who for ex-Senator/failed presidential would-be candidate, but that’s like Barack Who…

          • I wish you did, too. Northwest certainly isn’t perfect but it’s okay. All ye good people, get ye to the NW now! Ha. My ancestors were of the witch trial era. Yikes!

          • We should find a really dumb girl with no record but who’s pretty and charismatic, and then–but, wait, that’ll never work. A guy then, we plant the next Barott, and Manchurian Candidate, here we come! All Ralph needs is a little plastic surgery, a clean slate resume, and a frontal lobotomy, and we’re golden.

          • Ralph Nader, I mean.

            Ooh, judges? Are you related to Hawthorne?

          • Ralph is a no go. Been on the market too long.

          • LOL, my reaction after Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks floated Claire McCaskill 2016 for first female POTUS was that if McCaskill ever runs for prez, I hope her competition is an Indian-American woman named Latika, whose braniac mother received the help of a Clinton foundation scholarship that allowed her to escape the Mumbai slums to give birth to and raise her daughter in the American slum of Suburbia. Slumgal President!

          • Slumgals unite!

          • Related to Hawthorne only via the scarlet letter.

          • Lol And here I thought the progs weren’t serious about gender equality. Clare McCaskell: Because even she won’t vote for her!

          • The Alcotts? They’re related to judges on the May side.

          • What! She won’t even bet on herself?

          • We’re all witches in Stupakistan, especially those of us who are wicked enough to figure out that the complexity of 2 + 2 does not equal 5. Check out the new hit single: “I wanna be segregated” by the Obamacans. This is what a feminist anthem looks like!

          • I thought we were harridans? I’d rather be a harridan. Being a witch with no power to divert the angry mob kind of sucks.

          • McCaskill won’t vote for McCaskill? Is she trying to handcuff her presidential campaign the way she handcuffed the public option? Wow, Cenk’s pick just get better and better.

          • I’m totally into new math. : )

          • Cenk for McCaskill 2016:

          • But at least they could pat themselves on the back for not releasing a tsunami of hate against her. As long as she doesn’t break .0000000001%, they’re cool. If by some miracle she rises up into Gravel range, though, watch out.

          • Got one minute in and – reject.

          • “New math helped us score HeritageCare.” –CBO testimonial

          • What is Heritagecare?

          • HeritageCare as in Obama’s Health Insurance Reform, which builds on ideas that originated from the Heritage foundation to counter the Clinton healthcare plan in 1993.

          • Okay. Thanks.

          • As far as I can tell the only way to tell is to watch election cycle time. People aren’t static. I go outinto the progressive community because I want to see who can change and where we get the other 20% from to take our country back(both sides have a base of about 30%)

  17. “I just turned 50 – I’m getting too old for this shit.”

    I turn 65 this August. I fucking quit. I mean, I REALLY quit. Voting made me dirty last time. This makes me feel clean.

  18. Happy b-day myiq!

  19. Happy b-day, myiq!

  20. Think I’ve got a remnant of a brain and some good, hardy ancestors in my gene pool. Way back type ancestors. I’m standing firm. Not shaking in my boots.

    Not interested in the least in finely crafted pols.

  21. Let me see if I can sum this up: Booman is wrong to say Clinton’s triangulation was wrong, whole the unnecessary Obama triangulation is good (and not triangulation.) That being said, we applaud Obama’s triangulation.
    I am going to quote someone in B0botland here

    t just drives me crazy. Instead of cheering for the american people they cheer for some guy

    no matter what that guy does it’s ok because there is a (D) after his name. The amount of people hurt by his policies don’t matter, as long as the team wins. It’s really sickening.

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