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      Terrible things are happening all time. Right now, as you read it, people are suffering in monstrous, awful ways. Many, many people. That’s how it is. That’s how it has always been, and as long as there is life of the type there is on Earth, that’s the way it will be. Human and many animal bodies are built for pain and suffering, and not only are we often as […]
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A 16-year-old is buried alive, nobody cries

I’ll bet that girl did, but apparently nobody heard her. Here’s the story:

Turkish police have recovered the body of a 16-year-old girl they say was buried alive by relatives in an “honor” killing carried out as punishment for talking to boys. The girl, who has been identified only by the initials MM, was found in a sitting position with her hands tied, in a two-meter hole dug under a chicken pen outside her home in Kahta, in the south-eastern province of Adiyaman. … Media reports said the father had told relatives he was unhappy that his daughter – one of nine children – had male friends. The grandfather is said to have beaten her for having relations with the opposite sex. A postmortem examination revealed large amounts of soil in her lungs and stomach, indicating that she had been alive and conscious while being buried. Her body showed no signs of bruising.

Yup. A sixteen year old girl was buried alive for talking to boys and nobody gives a shit. I mean, seriously, who cares? Tiger Woods porked a Porn Star! Angeline is bored with Brad!

The always reliable Peter Doau tells it like it is:

First, let me say this: the brutalization of women and girls cuts across all religious and cultural boundaries, so this isn’t just about dis-‘honor’ killings, though few things are more heinous than a father murdering his daughter (after dispassionately discussing it with other family members). It’s about the things males do to females and will continue to do unless the outcry is loud enough that the world begins to take notice.

I have no patience for anyone trying to blame this hideous act on Islam. None. If you want to get on an anti-Islam soupbox, do it somewhere else, where people who aren’t ignorant don’t have to listen to you. This is not about Religion. This is not about class. This is not about Race or Origin or Ethnic background or location, this is about that girl and millions of others like her who suffer and die because they have a vagina. This is about the human spirit, and the simple fact that women are not viewed as human beings in our society, and haven’t been viewed as human beings for a very long time. What happened to that girl isn’t an isolated incident. It is pervasive, like an ancient and sickening disease. And it is everywhere.

Denis Mukwege, a Congolese gynecologist, cannot bear to listen to the stories his patients tell him anymore. Every day, 10 new women and girls who have been raped show up at his hospital. Many have been so sadistically attacked from the inside out, butchered by bayonets and assaulted with chunks of wood, that their reproductive and digestive systems are beyond repair. “We don’t know why these rapes are happening, but one thing is clear,” said Dr. Mukwege, who works in South Kivu Province, the epicenter of Congo’s rape epidemic. “They are done to destroy women.”


I could post thousands of these and it wouldn’t capture the depth and breadth of the problem. It comes down to this: there simply isn’t sufficient public outrage about gender-based violence to spur political action.


Sometimes I feel like we were all born into an alternate universe, a psychotic, twisted, perverted version of what life should be. Our existence is marked by unimaginable violence, hideous acts of evil against the most innocent among us. It’s like living in a perpetual horror movie.

Setting aside the existential conundrum, one thing I know for certain: we can’t stop jumping up and down, screaming at the top of our lungs, donating money to organizations that help women, telling our friends and families, doing everything in our power to stop these male monsters from continuing their savagery against women and girls.

Hmmmmm… do any of you know anyone who jumps up and down, screams at the top of their lungs, donates money to lady friendly organizations, and tells all of their friends about violence against women and girls? I don’t.

And maybe its time we do.

As a Wiccan I’m often asked why folks like me carry around the burning times as chips on our shoulders. They ask this as if the burning times are over. Nobody is burning at the stake (at least not very many) but that’s only because its so passe. Genital mutilation and stoning is much more effective these days.

SOD did a series about Male Social Dominance and how it effects women and girls. Attitudes like these do stem from Male Social Dominance, but some argue that Male Social Dominance isn’t as ingrained into human nature as you might think.

If you ever read The Chalice and The Blade, by Raine Eslier or When God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone or In Search of the Sacred Feminine you would know what that means. They and others make the case that human beings aren’t, by nature, violent and warlike, and cite archeological evidence of Pre-Helenic Egalitarian societies as proof.

One common misconception is that women back then were “worshiped” in “fertility cults” because of their reproductive powers, but the truth is much more practical and economical. Nobody was monogamous those days and they didn’t have paternity tests, so societies were matrilineal, meaning property and possessions were passed down through daughters instead of sons, because there was never any way to know who the father of the children were. Women were thus in control of their bodies and independence, so men and women lived together in peaceful harmony.

Archeologists have discovered no evidence of the glorification of violence and war from the civilizations that existed on the Islands of Crete and Thera for at least a thousand years. They were neolithic, so they didn’t hunt and didn’t evolve by eating meat, therefore physical strength, which is where men usually have the advantage, wasn’t very important. People from those societies generally had a different view on life than we do today. They had no human or animal sacrifices. They were highly advanced, and they didn’t have written word because it wouldn’t have made sense to them. Paragraphs are linear and they had no concept of time, for them everything went in a circle. Obviously they weren’t perfect, and they were the way they were because men and women chose to coexist instead of dominating each other.

Their way of life eventually died out because non-neolithic indo-europeans invaded from the north and Hebrews invaded from the south. Those tribes were violent and patriarchal because they came from areas that were to cold or warm to grow food, so they survived by hunting and conquest. That supposedly happened around five thousand years ago, and women have been subject to violence ever since, because to violent societies past and present women are akin to livestock or booty.

(It’s also worth noting that the Aryans were one of the Indo European tribes that invaded those egalitarian societies, and Hitler cited them as superior human beings.)

If you really think about it, all of the world’s problems go back to women’s equality. That’s how it all started. I highly doubt that any of the men in Congress or men in the White House are going to be bringing more attention to gender based violence any time soon.

So, as usual, its up to us to do something about it.

166 Responses

  1. Dontcha mean “autonomous?”

  2. Very good, chilling post LI.

    Could you get someone to put the Facebook linky thing up so I can post it over there?

  3. Great post LI!

  4. Hmmmmm… do any of you know anyone who jumps up and down, screams at the top of their lungs, donates money to lady friendly organizations, and tells all of their friends about violence against women and girls?

    You mean besides our current Secretary of State? 😉

    Thanks to bostonboomer, Daou, and littleisis for calling attention to this story. It’s appalling, and what’s most appalling to me is no that nobody cries–but that there is something like this to cry about in the first place.

    • I was actually going to say “except this person” and post a picture of our shero, but I wanted to stay on the subject matter at hand.
      I just adore her so much. Her work is so amazing and important and no one even realizes the incredible thing she is doing by focusing foreign policy on women and girls.
      I pray to goddess that one day everyone will know what she has done and is doing for this country and the world.

      • The best part was during her confirmation hearing where she told them flat out, she was going to make advocating against violence against women and girls and place the issue front and center as SOS. It was an education for many as to the connection between PEACE and Women’s/girl’s Human Rights.

    • Hillary Clinton on violence against girls/Under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

      Unite website: http://endviolence.un.org/

      United Nations, New York, 25 September 2009 – On the side of the General Debate of the 64th Session of the General Assembly an event co-sponsored by the United States, the Netherlands, and Brazil on combating violence against girls took place. H.E. Mrs Hillary Rodham Clinton, United States Secretrary of State delivered a statement on the theme of violence against girls.

  5. SOD did a series about Male Social Dominance

    Just to clarify, alpha male social dominance is just one form of social dominance. There is gender dominance, age dominance (over children and elderly) and arbitrary (race, species, class, socioeconomic, etc.)

    Dominance is about control of resources. Those who dominate create structures that help them maintain their dominant status. That poor 16 year old girl was a victim of gender and age dominance whereas the patriarch considered her property (a resource) that he controlled and could do with as he wished. He disposed of “damaged goods” and sent a message that failure to follow his mandate/his culture’s mandate would result in said punishment.

    You could pretty much plug in any dominance scenario and come up with like results. Women and children are property in their minds, and their value is tied to what they can “get” for them in trade or labor. Her value was diminished by a heinous cultural view. To end such atrocities requires an understanding of the worldview that permits it to happen.

    That’s why Hillary’s work is so important. She gets to the foundation of the oppression and deals with it there. Thank God for her.

  6. On the issue of patriarchal versus matrilineal versus egalitarian, it has a lot to do with the settling of societies. In the hunter-gatherer societies, all hands on deck was a necessity for survival. Control of resources was limited because resources were limited and specialization was also limited. Population was also limited because women were needed in the food gathering and shelter preparing processes. In some cultures they were revered as the spiritual fountain of new life (that’s a simple view certainly).

    In any event, once tribes settled in one place, more children were needed to produce goods and resources and thus they (children and women) became factors of production that men came to control. Wives and children were wealth because they translated into greater production of goods for trade. It’s all been downhill from there. The Bible is pretty much the handbook for alpha male farmers.

    It’s that pervasive mindset that tells these cultures that a 16-yr old daughter is property to do with as you wish. That mindset is where we need to start.

    • SOD, you need to read the books I mentioned, The Chalice and the Blade, In Search of the Lost Feminine and When God Was a Woman. Those books changed my life, because they are about everything we are discussing here.
      Not just the bible, but also the greek legends were basically political propoganda back in those days. They enforced marriage as an institution, which originally was not about love, but ensuring that men had a male heir. Marriage was synonomous for monogomy, but only for women. It was a way to ensure that the son was his.
      The Trojan War actually was about preserving a marriage-not because Helen’s husband loved her, but because allowing her to run off with Paris, the man she actually loved, would have illegitimized the propoganda at the time, which was that women were supposed to be property rather than human beings.
      I could go on forever about this, its one of my favorite topics.

      • Isis, I think Eisler is best approached with a certain degree of caution. She and Gimbutas both blame the destruction of the peaceful, egalitarian society that flourished in Central Europe on the nasty, warlike, male dominant Kurgans/Indo-Europeans sweeping down on them out of the steppe to the east.

        The only problem with that scenario is that the Kurgans/Indo-European nasties were also egalitarian at least to some degree. Indo-European nomad women from the steppes dating from the same period have been found buried with their weapons, some of them dead of evident battle wounds. (One male archaeologist suggested that weapons were buried with them to fend off demons in the spirit world. An interesting theory, but it makes one wonder why we haven’t found any men buried with needle and thread so they can darn their own damn socks in the afterlife.)
        Some of the grave mounds–the “kurgans” that gave the I-E’s their alternate name–also contain female burials, some of them clearly “chieftain burials” from the quality and quantity of the grave goods. Legends of Amazons seem to have arisen from contacts with these people. According to early Greek writers, the dowry of a steppe woman among the Sarmation/Sauromantian tribes was the head of an enemy killed by her own hand in battle.

        We can trace the migration of one group of I-E’s, the Celts, across Europe because everywhere they settled they left the name of their Goddess, Don (also Danu, Dana, sometimes Anu) on the landscape. There’s the River Don in Russia, pretty much on the eastern edge of their range. Then there were Homer’s Danaans in Greece, the Danube across Austria and into southern Germany, the Dordogne in France, several rivers Don in Britain and finally the tales of the Tuatha de Dannan, the Children of Don, who finally came to the end of the European world in Ireland. By classical times we have written records of them, and those records support the legends of fighting Celtic women as well as of a legal system in which women held property in their own right, entered professions, had the right of divorce as well as the right to maintain a recognized lover in addition to a husband, held the right to rule–could, in short do anything a man could do. So at least some of the I-E’s maintained a system of equality between men and women. Unfortunately for some aspects of Eisler’s hypothesis, this evidence shows that women can be just as violent as men. Just personally, I don’t think that the non-agressive Central European, pre-I-E cultures evolved because humans aren’t violent by nature; I think they evolved specifically to control natural human violence.

        Some of the same features were found in many Native American goups. In the Iroquois Confederation, the women’s council was equal to the men’s council, and all legislation had to be agreed upon by both. Some functions, such as the deposition of a civil chief, could be done only at the behest of the women elders. (The war chief’s sole peacetime function was to carry the pink slip.)

        Therer were similar structures among the southeastern nations, particularly the Tsalagi (Cherokee). Nanyeha, the last Beloved Woman ( female chief) before the Removal gained her position by her prowess on the battlefield. Tsalagi were and remain matrilineal; we inherit our clan membership from our mothers. There are very old legends about a group of men called the Ani Kutani, who gained almost absolute political and religious power, but were overthrown when they attemtped to subjugate the women.

        Yet both the Iroquois and the precursors to the Tsalagi were notably warlike and expansionist, making war for territory and resources with the best (or worst, perhaps) of the male-dominant cultures.

        In short, I think much of Eisler’s writing reflects what she thinks should have been rather than necessarily what was, especially in regard to the supposed natural peacefulness of women. A little skepticism is in order there, I believe.

    • I loved learning in anthropology class that in hunter-gatherer societies the gatherers brought in 80%-90% of the food. So really they should be termed gatherer-hunter societies, but the hunters get all the glamour.

      And thanks, LI, for this excellent post on a painfully obvious but socially ignored problem.

      • I find the spiritual rituals that have been uncovered facinating, especially those that reveal reverence for the feminine — earth mounds (bodies buried to spring forth again in new life from the belly of mother earth) and goddess forms revering the fertility and life-giving capacity of the feminine. Women in many instances were worshiped for their mystical power of life-giving.

        …and then that life-giving power became a commodity. That’s where it all went wrong. You see much of those trappings in today’s sexist and misogynistic behavior. i.e., “…how dare those women try to control that resource? That is the male’s property” It’s why “God” is a man.

        • Again SOD, I’m serious, read those books I mentioned. You need to.

          • Thanks LI. I bought the Chalice and the Blade a while back along with a whole stack of women in politics and social dominance books but they are still sitting on my bookshelf waiting for a break in time to really sit down and read. I probably have 20-30 books I purchased from Amazon this year waiting for me.

            I’m good at buying, bad at time management.

  7. Most of our paternity laws were originally related to inheritance of real property.

    Back in the old days only nobility owned property – commoners were tenants. Of course only male descendants could inherit since wimmins weren’t even allowed to own themselves.

    One paternity law says that the child of a married woman is presumed to be the child of her husband. One reason for that law was that sometimes the king wasn’t up to the job of producing an heir and got a little help from the stable boy. The law said queen’s child was the king’s kid too, even if he looked more like someone else.

    But sometimes it was the queen who was infertile, so there is another law that says if a man takes a child into him home and “holds him out as his own” then he is presumed to be the father. That way if the chambermaid produces the king’s only son then there could still be an heir to the throne.

    Even today, these legal presumptions can trump DNA evidence.

  8. LittleIsis,

    Thank you for shining a light on violence against girls and women. Young girls shouldn’t be killed for reporting a crime and they should not suffer such barbaric deaths as that of being buried alive. It is a gastly thought that no one stopped it.

    The greater crime, is that even in death she isn’t counted as her name is ‘MM’ and thus sheilding the perpertrators of the crime and those that stood by.

  9. When I hear of the horrors that girls and women go through, I turn to examples like the following to restore my resolve… Yemeni feminist… I absolutely adore this video…

    • Me too! Her father should be nominated for a Peace Price for promoting equality of girls…and he sure knows his child is a blessing.

      • Is the Imam her father?

      • This is from the director of the documentary about Nejmia:

        KHADIJA AL-SALAMI: Seven months after shooting the film, Nejmia’s father stopped her from going to school and ordered her to wear the veil. A year later, this film won first prize at the Beirut Film Festival. The president of Yemen was visiting France at that time and heard about the prize. He asked me to show him the film. I thought he would not like it because it shows society looking down on women, but I was wrong. He was drawn by Nejmia’s personality, and at the end of the film he asked me to tell Nejmia’s family that he would like to pay for her education. I was very happy to hear that and thought that was the best prize I could ever get for the film. Now, Nejmia is back at school. I think it is the most important element for a better and independent future. The more a woman is educated, the more she knows her rights and is able to defend them, the more useful she will be to her family and to society as a whole. The film was not screened on Yemeni TV because they are not accustomed to such controversial subject matter.

  10. That BS is almost over.
    From The Ajni Yoga teachings:

    There exists a most ancient saying, ‘Where women are revered and
    > safeguarded, prosperity reigns and the gods rejoice.’ The New Epoch
    > under the rays of Uranus will bring the renaissance of woman. The
    > Epoch of Maitreya is the Epoch of the Mother of the World.” Letters
    > Of Helena Roerich II, 5 April 1938.

    My understanding is that Maitreya’s first TV interview took place in January. Have no idea when or where.

  11. I remain skeptical about the history proffered by the books LI mentioned, but she is entirely correct on the sinfulness of patriarchy.

    To misquote Jefferson, I tremble for my gender when I reflect that God is just.

  12. (It’s also worth noting that the Aryans were one of the Indo European tribes that invaded those egalitarian societies,
    Slightly off topic but recent and on going population DNA studies seem to indicate that mass migration corresponding to the “Aryan” invasion didn’t happen. From my (limited) reading on the subject, the concept of invasion form West-Central (?) Asia was based on linguistic studies in the early-mid 19th century.

    The theme (myth) was really pushed by the British Colonial powers in India as a means to divide the Indian population and make control easier.

    The whole subject of the migration patterns of modern humans after they left East Africa (determined by DNA) is very fascinating and still in is it early stages.

    • I was just summarizing, so I didn’t mention specific dates, but most of the archeological discoveries I mentioned are from fairly recently.

  13. Thanks for the link to Peter’s piece. I read it this morning and thought it would make a good post.
    Um, I think neolithic people were hunter-gatherers until around 9000 BC when they started to develop agriculture in the river valley regions of the world. Be careful of red tent feminism. There’s a lot of evidence of matrilineal cultures but it likely wasn’t as rosey a scenario as you make it sound.

    • There still are some matrilineal cultures. All it means is that the bloodline is traced through the female relatives. It doesn’t mean that women’s lives are any easier. In fact, Judiaism still has traces of their original matrilineal traditions–you aren’t born Jewish unless your mother was Jewish. But it was and is still a male dominated culture.

      • Yes, sometimes people confuse matrilineal with matriarchal. One merely refers to bloodline, the other to power. There is far less evidence for matriarchal societies than matrilineal. In fact, I’m not sure if there is any hard evidence of matriarchal – merely theories based on archeological evidence.

        • And stories about Amazons.

          • Yes, that’s been debated as to whether they were a real matriarchal society or just mythology.

        • I read somewhere of a Pacific islander society which is still matriarchal, but can’t remember where. Thus I have no idea of the truth of it.

          • Well, I found that if the ‘woman’ gives the word the young guys won’t hurt you and they will even kneel as a form of respect to the elder woman. I can’t tell you how I know, but bless my little angels for watching over me and all the volunteering I did, otherwise as RD says I’d be pan tostado.

          • CW is that there have been no societies where women held the political power and sway equal to patriarchal societies. Reverence to women: yes; Matrilineal and matrifocal: yes; but matriarchal has yet to be proven I believe.

          • The Mosuo Matriarchy
            ‘Men Live Better Where Women Are In Charge’


          • The Mosuos still exist within a system where males control the political structures. It’s not a matriarchal society in the sense of power.

    • “Be careful of red tent feminism”

      I’m not sure what you mean by that, but it sounds preferable to our current system, any time.

      • What I mean when I say red tent feminism is that which mythologized and romanticizes a separate but equal feminine culture. O call it red tent because the menstrual tent is the place where this mythological female bonding experience supposedly took place. Red tent feminists think that men envy our wombs.
        They do not.
        And there’s no such thing as separate but equal.

        • It’s a bit of a dead end.

        • Speaking of womb envy, I want to highly recommend A Mind of Her Own: The Life of Karen Horney. It’s a fascinating read. You’d like it RD. Horney was one of the first women to attend medical school in turn of the century Germany. I have never been so enthralled with a biography but this one is so well written and it really brings this remarkable woman/feminist/rebel to life.

          • Just to clarify: Horney’s concept of womb envy does not (to the best of my knowledge) have anything to do with a “separate but equal” gender ideal. It was a response to Freud’s theory of penis envy. bostonboomer, please correct me if I’m wrong. I was just taking the opportunity to recommend “A Mind of Her Own” and did not mean to imply she was a “red tent” feminist.

  14. Five Pakistani Women Buried Alive in Group Honor Killing

    According to human rights groups and local reports, the five women were driven away to a desert area by men belonging to the Umrani tribe. The three teenage girls were hauled out, beaten and shot. Injured, but still alive, they were thrown into a ditch. When the two older women, aged 45 and 38, protested at what was happening, they were subjected to the same treatment. “All five women were connected,” said Ali Dayan Hasan of Human Rights Watch.

    The killings have been defended by politicians from Baluchistan. Reacting to a female colleague’s attempt to raise the issue in parliament, Israrullah Zehri said such acts were part of a “centuries-old tradition” and he would “continue to defend them”.

    Questions have been raised about the involvement of local politicians in the incident. The Asian Human Rights Commission said that the brother of a provincial minister was “allegedly” among the tribesmen. “There is a political connection, but it is not certain what,” added Mr Hasan

    • Unbelieveable.

      • BB,

        The older ones, were included because they protested what was being done. What courage they must have had knowing what they would be facing. 😥

        • I guess that’s why Medine’s mother didn’t protest. I think I would have chosen to die with my daughter rather than live with that.

          • Me too…but they may have had several little ones. Gosh, the courage those woman had makes one appreciate our right to vote even more here in the States. One day maybe our sisters around the world will have a voice and chart their own course.

  15. Be careful of red tent feminism…
    That’s a new term for me but I get the idea. Might be an interesting topic on it’s own. I don’t want to deviate from the present serious topic but the “red tent” is just a small sub-set of ideas (myths) that resulted from a concerted push to “pacify” human pre-history. This movement, I think got a start from the horrors of WWI and really gained traction after the genocide of WWII and post-colonialism. It may have peaked with the publication of “The Man Eating Myth” in 1979 by William Arens.

    • Many of the theories of prehistoric human cultures are projections of the authors’ beliefs and are based on very scant evidence. Human nature has not changed in the past 10,000 years.

      Technology has changed, people are the same.

      • Anyone who has ever been to war can verify that. We’re still savages behind our veils.

        • You don’t even have to use war to show that humans are still basically savages. Just read the crime reports in the newspapers or watch shows on TV about murder, rape, child abuse, all kinds of violence.

      • Human nature has not changed in the past 10,000 years.
        Probably not since modern humans evolved in East Africa >100,000 years ago. It is also probably not a coincidence that of ~4,500(?) species of mammal, only two have the combination of patrilocality and lethal violence. Humans and our first cousins Chimpanzees.

      • Human nature has not changed in the past 10,000 years.

        Which coincides with settled societies (give or take a thousand or so years) and the accumulation of “stuff.” That’s why Buddhism makes a lot of sense in that much of our suffering is tied to our attachment to “stuff.” Dak can correct me on that but in a simply stated way, that about sums it up.

        “He who dies with the most toys wins.” — the motto of the patriarchy .

        • Which coincides with recorded history. We really don’t know how people lived before then.

          I watched a show about the prehistoric guy they found in a glacier a while back. He was murdered.

          • Well there may not have been written records but archeological information is available.

            BTW, the existence of violence does not necessarily equate to patriarchal leanings. That’s a whole other discussion about fight or flight instincts, fear, and survival. The killing of that young girl occurred because one human being believed that she was his property to be disposed of as he desired. Murdering another human being on it’s face does not lead to an assumption of dominance. An example would be one animal killing another animal that is trying to take its food. It could be considered “murder” but not dominance. It’s survival.

          • From what we know of Native American tribes that were hunter-gatherers, they engaged in warfare too.

          • Some of that was ritual, some was based on competition for resources, but for tribes that were settled, you have the “stuff” that needed protecting. (and admittedly that’s a simple explanation for a complex matter).

            There is a big difference between individuals or groups of people that want to assert ownership over “property” and those that seek resources for survival, exhaust those resources and move on. Once you settle down and start accumulating property, you end up dominating others to gain and retain control of resources.

          • The great Chinese Admiral Zheng He, a eunuch, visited California 70 years before Columbus landed in the Bahamas. Sorry. Don’t know if that relates.

          • Actually there’s some spotty evidence of matriarchal societies in bronze age China.

          • I don’t have the link but when he was originally found the “touchy-feely” interpretation was that he was on a trading journey across the mountains and got lost or had an accident. the last thing that I read was that the guy was armed “to the teeth” and had a arrow head in his chest.

            I think it was about the same period in “sanitize” human history that human bone deposits were being unearthed in ancient Pueblo areas. The bones showed signs of butchering, cooking ,etc. and the explanation was that the building fell on them or there was a fire, etc….anything but that they were used for food.

          • Kennebec Man, who may or may not have been a NA ancestor, was murdered, too.

        • “He who dies with the most toys is still Purina Worm Chow, you morons!”–the answer to the motto of the patriarchy :mrgreen:

  16. Brava, LittleSis!. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    • Um, mostly she didn’t, much as I love little Isis. The credit for a good section of that post goes to Peter Daou.
      LI, I would trim his contribution to a couple paragraphs and link to the rest. We want Peter as a friend.

      • Done. Doctored it up a bit.

        Also, I was more specific about the flowery society I was mentioning, which was not what I was referring to as a whole while discussing prehistory.

        I also don’t believe in “Red Tent Feminism.” Separate but equal does not work.

  17. UNICEF (Stop Rape Campaign): In DR Congo, rape as a weapon of war

    “Sexual violence in DRC is on a scale and brutality unparalleled elsewhere in the world,” says Child Protection Specialist Pernille Ironside in UNICEF’s eastern DRC regional office. “While rape certainly existed prior to the war, the brutal nature of the violations that we see is appalling — with over 1,000 women and girls raped per month.

    • Thank you for the youtube, WV.

      “I was in Goma last August, the epicenter of one of the most violent and chaotic regions on earth. And when I was there, I met with victims of horrific gender and sexual violence, and I met with refugees driven from their homes by the many military forces operating there. I heard from those working to end the conflicts and to protect the victims in such dire circumstances. I saw the best and the worst of humanity in a single day, the unspeakable acts of violence that have left women physically and emotionally brutalized, and the heroism of the women and men themselves, of the doctors, nurses and volunteers working to repair bodies and spirits.

      They are on the front lines of the struggle for human rights. Seeing firsthand their courage and tenacity of they and the Congolese people and the internal fortitude that keeps them going is not only humbling, but inspires me every day to keep working.”

      –Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, in her speech on human rights at Georgetown, December 2009

  18. What a hideous story to add to so many others involving mindless violence against women and girls.

    I was lucky enough to catch the Tavis Smiley special on Hillary Clinton, aired just before Obama’s less than stellar State of the Union. Smiley asked Clinton directly why she had made a point of concentrating on the welfare of women and girls at the State Dept. In addition, to the subject being dear to her heart [she is a woman and the mother of a daughter], she said there is documented evidence now that a society’s ability to grow, prosper and truly develop is correlated to the way that society treats, promotes and nourishes its female members.

    It was wonderful to hear her speak to the issue, one that is clearly a priority for her. That and the long and distinguished record she has made me proud as a woman and mother myself.

    Of course, it won’t help this poor youngster murdered by her own father. But one strong, unwavering voice in a position of power is a start, long overdue.

  19. When I used to watch the Daily Show, I signed up for Comedy Central’s Joke of the Day. It is nothing short of a vehicle for disseminating misogynous propaganda… nothing funny about it.

    It’s a huge problem that we pay, promote, support stand-up “comics” who are vehicles of hate speech against women, blondes, fat people, etc., etc., etc. If we are not amused, we’re accused of lacking a sense of humor. Denigration should be called out for what it is, a demoralizing form of abuse, in every instance, at every dinner table, in every workplace ad infinitum, until it is as socially unacceptable as calling someone the “n” word.

    • I should add, the reason I think this is important is that it is this pervasive misogyny that desensitizes us to even the most heinous attacks on women and girls. The entire spectrum needs to be addressed, and a zero tolerance policy adopted. It means that every one of us has to run the risk of becoming a social pariah for not being willing to “go along to get along”.

      • That’s why we have defended Sarah Palin from misogynist attacks.

        We don’t agree with her, but she deserves to be treated with the same respect we give everyone else.

        • well said.

        • I think we agree with her sometimes. I could make a list of things most of us agree with her on. But I get your point and of course we defend any woman against sexism.

    • I agree, and as someone who is overweight I can’t help but but notice that hatred of fat people is still more acceptable than just about any other hatred.

    • I’ve never understood why the comedy entertainment business is such a boy’s club. I often find women have the better wit.

      • As we know, women can be just as cruel.

      • Paula Poundstone makes me laugh with out fail. There are funny people of both sexes. My ex-husband used to be one of the funniest people I know and my sons take after him. But the funniest humor to me is always self deprecating or gentle when directed at others.

  20. Slightly off topic, but it does concern human prehistory:

    A few years ago, Barbara Ehrenreich wrote a fine book called Blood Rites: Origins and History of the Passions of War. [Metropolitan Books, 1997] The book is much too rich for me to summarize it all here, but one of her chief hypotheses is that cooperative human violence began neither as predation on other humans, nor as hunting of large animals, but as defense against large carnivores.

    I recommend it to anyone who can obtain a copy, either bought or borrowed.

    • This too is off-topic but every time I see Ehrenreich’s name now I remember that nasty hit piece she wrote about Hillary trying to tie The Family around her neck, as a way to deflect from the Reverend Wright controversy.

      • Well, Babs hadn’t yet been assimilated into the Oborg Collective when she wrote that book. :mrgreen:

        • True, lol! I just need brain bleach for that stinkin’ piece.

        • yup, no one is perfect. I have been annoyed as hell at Gov Rendell, for example, when he shoved Casey down our throats and when he told Gore in 2004 that the party would not support him running again…yet I would work to get him elected if he could run for Governor again as I think he has been a damn good one.
          There are few people who have disappointed me so bad that I have given up on them totally.

  21. “This is about the human spirit, and the simple fact that women are not viewed as human beings in our society, and haven’t been viewed as human beings for a very long time.”

    I feel terrible for the young girl who was murdered and all the other women who have been maimed, murdered or just plain brutalized throughout the years here and elsewhere. But I just want to make it perfectly clear that people who are from the Middle East, who worship Islam, and reside in a country other than the USA are NOT members of our society.

    I quit reading shortly after your completely baseless and fabricated slam of everyone from my gender who lives in this country. To say that I or anyone in my family or anyone that I know doesn’t view women as human beings is totally ridiculous. I’ve never met the person you described though I do know there are monsters living among us. Maybe, you shouldn’t be so quick to defend Islam or so quick to judge all of us with Penis’ as monsters. Also, you do know who wrote the Koran, right? You do know that that person was all about the brutalization of female children? You need to get some of your facts straight.

    • Too much of it is true for me to feel dissed about it. Ashamed of it damn straight, but not dissed.

    • You seem to be responding to the portions of the post that were written by Peter Daou, a man. Little Isis used too much of his piece, but she didn’t write that.

    • Once upon a time the Islamic Empire was the dominant culture in Western civilization.

      Muslims were the educated and enlightened people and Christians were the backward savages.

      • From whom, incidentally, Muslims seem to have adopted the practice of veiing women. (See any of Karen Armstrong’s books on Middle Eastern religion.)

      • I think you are mistaken. It was the Arabic people in what is now Iraq (and the people in the far east) who were civilized before people of the west, but that is before Islam or Christianity existed.

    • I love that this thread attracts some guy mischaracterizing what LI said guilt tripping her, and telling her how to feel and what to do. It must be amazing to discover that a post about violence against women and one girl’s story in particular is really about you. Amazing how often that seems to happen.

      Thanks for putting attention where it belongs, LI. It’s horrific, but as always you do an amazing job bringing it all together.

  22. Speak for yourself, Greg. I also tote a pecker around, but I know damn well LI wasn’t dissing me.

    “You do know that that person was all about the brutalization of female children?”

    Actually, I don’t know that. Proof, please?

  23. Yes, brutalization of women is everywhere.

    And yes, right now, islam is the worst.

    • Have you looked at the FBI’s rape statistics? The murders of wives by husbands and women by male partners? Have you examined the statistics on the murders of pregnant women by their partners? The statistics on incest and child abuse? The U.S. is a killing field for women and girls–and children generally.

      • But even that egregious reality does not necessarily make the comparative case.

      • I haven’t looked at the raw data but I was surprised when I read the cross-sex aggression data in my “Oxford Handbook of evolutionary psychology” 1992 data from Canada, Europe, Scandinavia: for every 100 males that killed their spouses, there were between 17-40 woman who killed their spouses. 2000 study the US had the most equality of killing with the ratio 0.56-0.70 as opposed to Africa, India 0.91, Europe 0.79, Russia 0.86.

        Doesn’t fit with my reading of “crime reports”.

      • yes, you are right however there is a difference. Men in this country who torture and kill women do it in hiding and go to prison when they are caught. Public stonings do not take place in Yankee stadium.

    • Proof?

      Here are some figures:

      Every day, an average of 10 women are murdered in the United States, 3 of them by intimate partners.

      Every day, an average of 600 women are raped in the United States.

      Every day, an average of 13,151 American women are raped or otherwise attacked by an intimate partner.

      An American child’s chance of dying by homicide goes up by 600% if there is a genetically unrelated male in the house.

      Since 1993, 370 women are known to have been murdered in the City of Juarez, Mexico. More are missing and presumed dead.

      During the war among the fragments of the former Yugoslavia, tens of thousands of Kosovar and ethnic Albanian women were systematically raped by Serbs and Croats.

      As many as 2 million Middle European and German women were raped by Soviet troops who liberated the region from the Nazis in WWII.

      The only Muslims involved in these examples are the Kosovar and Albanian women. All the rest were victimized by men from overwhelmingly Christian societies.

      • That should be “genetically unrelated adult male.”

      • to compare the struggle of life as a women in the US and in the ME and try to claim that women in the west are just as poorly served by society is an insult to women in the ME.
        Can you imagine trading places with some woman in Afghanistan or the Congo and still say we have it just as bad here or in England or any western country?

        • Can you imagine trading places with some woman in New York or San Antonio or Los Angeles who hasn’t been allowed to leave her house in two years, is regularly beaten, raped and verbally abused by her so-called intimate partner, isn’t allowed out to see a doctor when she becomes pregnant, while he maxes out and destroys her credit for years to come? Don’t tell me it doesn’t happen or that the scum would go to jail. I know that woman, the scum is still free years later, and she’s still dealing with the consequences.

          Afghanistan? You mean the war zone where women and children are bombed on a regular basis by their supposed allies? Oopsie doesn’t cut it.

          What does the Congo have to do with the Middle East? Do you just automatically assume that any dark-skinned person is a Muslim? Central and East Africa were heavily missionized by the Roman Catholic and Anglican churches during their colonial periods. Uganda, which is contemplating the death penalty for LGBT people, is some 85%-95% Christian. The Parliamentarian who introduced the bill providing the death penalty is a Christian.

          The salient fact about Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Congo, Somalia, Liberia and other places where these atrocities occur/have occurred on a regular basis is that they are war zones. Two of the examples I gave above also occurred in war zones. I think it’s possible to derive a general principle here:
          Violence against women, especially rape, becomes pervasive when there is no civil authority and rule of law has lapsed. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with war.

          I think another generalization can be made. Violence against Muslim women by non-Muslim men is met with absolute silence by the same people who express horror and loathing at violence against Muslim women by Muslim men. An “honor” killing by a Muslim father or other male relative is greeted with horror and choruses of “Islam sucks.” The gang rape and murder of a 14-year old Iraqi girl and her family by American soldiers in Iraq merits not so much as a passing comment. A young Muslim woman is stabbed to death in a German court by a European man who had stalked her and threatened her because of her headscarf–no comment there, either. A white American threatens to run down two veiled black American women at a gas station–crickets.

          And there’s the converse. Recall for a moment the case of the 8-year old Liberian immigrant girl who was gang-raped by half-a-dozen Liberian immigrant boys. Their religion was not mentioned in the initial news reports. The Internet, however, was thick with assertions that the father who initially disowned his daughter and the rapists must be Muslim because only Muslims would perpetrate such horror against a female child. There were also assertions that media were deliberately not mentioning their [Muslim] religion out of political correctness. Turns out, interestingly enough, that the child’s family and at least the oldest rapist and presumed organizer of the attack are–Christian.

          This is what I think is at work here: For centuries, the black man was the Jungian shadow in the American psyche–driven by violence and lust, beyond any moral understanding, more beast than human, pervasive threat to white women, this nightmare stereotype led to centuries of oppression of African Americans and Goddess knows how many lynchings. That bigotry is now socially unacceptable except in overtly raycist contexts such as Aryan Nations and the offshoots of the White Citizens’ Councils. It has, however, been transferred seamlessly to Muslim men and is given credibility by the semi-religious nature of the American war in the Middle East. I think it’s entirely fair to say that Pamela Geller, others like her and their avid followers have simply moved their bigotry and sexual stereotyping over a notch to other conveniently dark-skinned men who are socially-approved hate receptacles because of the 911 attacks. “All they want is a white woman” has become “they’re taking over and want to impose Sharia law on American women”

          If you have any proof to the contrary, please present it.

  24. I re-read the front page post. I couldn’t find where all American males were referred to as monsters. Instead I saw a man in America (Peter Daou) praised as “always reliable” and quoted extensively. I also saw this:

    I highly doubt that any of the men in Congress or men in the White House are going to be bringing more attention to gender based violence any time soon.

    Color me skeptical as well. The best I see is the Obama camp seeming to think his not standing in the way of Hillary talking about wimmenz is adequately herculean and something that should keep him safe with wimmen voters in 2012. Congress is pretty depressing as well. With the exception of maybe Al Franken–who I’m still working on forgiving for his healthcare wobble.

  25. I really don’t see how one can discuss violence against women and leave religion out of the discussion, LI. Religion is most definitely part of the problem. It is one of the most powerful tools patriarchy uses to keep women in a state of oppression.

    Here’s a recent column by Nicolas Kristof that discusses just that:
    Religion and Women

    • I am rarely a fan of Kristof, but he gets this one right. The wrong kind of religion is definitely a source of injustices of all sorts.

      Although, we talking apes being what we are, I suspect that if we had never developed religions, we’d just find other excuses to oppress and prey on one another, seeing as we have developed so many non-religious excuses also. 😦

      • I know. I was hesitant to link it, but he really got it right on this one.

        To my mind, the worst aspect about the religious “excuse” is that it absolves, and even celebrates, the abuser since he’s only enforcing god’s will. It also indoctrinates young girls into the acceptance of their inferiority. It’s like foot binding for the soul.

      • I don’t think it’s belief or lack of belief in God(dess) that is the problem–it’s people using their beliefs either way to justify injustice. If it wasn’t religion, it would be [insert whatever else was the overarching way people tried to make sense of the world] that would be used as a tool to control people.

        • From Kristof’s column (link above):

          The New Testament quotes St. Paul (I Timothy 2) as saying that women “must be silent.” Deuteronomy declares that if a woman does not bleed on her wedding night, “the men of her town shall stone her to death.” An Orthodox Jewish prayer thanks God, “who hast not made me a woman.” The Koran stipulates that a woman shall inherit less than a man, and that a woman’s testimony counts for half a man’s.

          I think that when the subjugation of women is written into a religion’s teachings and is believed to be the word of god, then that creates a formidable, and quite insidious, weapon to oppress women. Children are indoctrinated with this belief and, along with other cultural factors, it sets that belief in stone. After all, who can argue with “god”? It’s a catch 22.

          • I 100% agree. My point is only an extension to that, that if it wasn’t “God” I think that there would had some other concept that served the same function in helping people explain the world around them and in that concept would have been very similar ideas embedded to control people.

            Bill Maher bashes religion relentlessly but his routine is full of misogyny. He uses his anti-religion stance to justify a lot of nonsense, imho.

          • *Organized* religion is one of the institutional pillars of patriarchal dominance. I’m not speaking of spirituality which serves a human need, I’m referring to organized, patriarchy-based monotheistic (God is a man of course) religion. The older I get the more I’m convinced there is nothing in organized religion for women except subservience and oppression.

          • Spirituality helps people explain the world around them; organized religion uses schooled spirituality to control.

          • well fwiw, I’m agnostic and have an inherent distrust of organized religion. I think the reason why I have that inherent distrust is related to why the Obama pitch didn’t work on me. All that “believe” crap without any evidence, in fact evidence to the contrary in many instances.And, once again “belief” was entwined with a witch-burning mentality.

        • Somebody should research whether incidence of domestic violence is higher in religious homes compared to secular ones. Seems like that would be possible to look up.

          • Well, that would need a discussion over what constitutes a “religious home.” It’s not an objective description by any stretch.

        • There are variances in translation. Here is verse (4:34) translated into English by two different Quranic scholars:

          By Ahmed Ali:

          Men are the support of women as God gives some more means than others, and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them)….As for women you feel are averse, take to them suasively; then leave them alone in bed (without molesting them) and go to bed with them (when they are willing).

          By Majid Fakhry:

          Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made some of them excel the others, and because they spend some of their wealth….And for those (women) that you fear might rebel, admonish them and abandon them in their beds and beat them.

          Ref: No god but God – Reza Aslan

      • I didn’t read Kristof’s piece, but IMO, you’d have to include Christianity if you want to talk about oppression of women by religion.

        • Yes, such as the gendercide in Europe during three centuries of witch-hunts, c. 1450-1750

          “Malleus Maleficarum (The Hammer of Witches), published by Catholic inquisition authorities in 1485-86. “All wickedness,” write the authors, “is but little to the wickedness of a woman. … What else is woman but a foe to friendship, an unescapable punishment, a necessary evil, a natural temptation, a desirable calamity, domestic danger, a delectable detriment, an evil nature, painted with fair colours. … Women are by nature instruments of Satan — they are by nature carnal, a structural defect rooted in the original creation.”

      • Question is whether religious patriarchies cause or mirror existing secular patriarchal mores in societies.

        • secular patriarchal mores

          I don’t believe there is such an animal. Religion is a tool (an institution) of patriarchal dominance. “secular” would assume a social structure that is absent of religion if you are discussion patriarchal social structures.

          Patriarchal societies create religion, not the other way around. And *organized* religion is an important distinction to make. it doesn’t refer to spirituality.

          • Mao’s China and Stalin’s Russia were about as secular as large societies get in the modern age. A case could be made that women were afforded slightly more consideration under those regimes, but the major political and economic systems were absolutely run by men. And in both cases, stamping out any traces of religion was virtually a moral imperative of rule.

            Then there’s Corporate Amerca today and the zilch representation of women on the boards where money is really the religion.

          • they used political institutions for dominance. Your reference to “mores” would be satisfied by their laws. I haven’t spent too much time on those societies and patriarchal dominance so I can’t really debate that.

          • I just checked — China has only been “anti-religion” since the mid 1990s, and Russia does in fact have Christianity as a major religion.
            And China’s history includes ancestor (patriarchal) worship.
            Communism notwithstanding, religion can’t be turned off and on by political systems I would argue.

          • I guess we’d have to look at whether Mao’s China and/or Stalin’s Russia came after hundreds of years of religious patriarchy. Was pre-communist China or Russia a place where women could rise to prominence? I’m not a historian, but I doubt it.

            Corporate America is part of an America where we’ve engraved “in god we trust” on our money. Despite the supposed separation of church and state, our culture is awash in christian ideology.

            IMO, the only way we’ll see more women in positions of power will be to tear down and rebuild our entire cultural structure. As I mentioned in a comment upthread, I’ve been reading a biography of Karen Horney, and it’s amazing how much hasn’t changed in a hundred years. Women seem to be running in place. We take one step forward and three steps back. I just can’t see any real gender equality until the entire system is rebuilt.

          • I agree that religion is a tool used by the patriarchy to validate patriarchal dominance. Religion is not true spirituality but the patriarchy appropriated it as such to purposefully confuse the populace.

            Definitions of spirituality include: concern with things of the spirit, usurped at least by the 15th century to include a definition of: property or income owned by the church
            Definitions of spirit include: the vital principal or animating force within living things; the vital principal or animating force that gives life to physical organisms
            latin root, spiritus-breath, spirare-to breathe: vital latin root, vitalis from vita-life

            vital spirit…the breath of life

        • TW — you might enjoy this book: Beyond Cosmic Dice: Moral Life in a Random World by Jeff Schweitzer.


          It speaks specifically to the connection b/w oppression of women and organized religion. Schweitzer actually worked for Bill Clinton. http://www.jeffschweitzer.com/author.php

          • Schweitzer also wrote a good book on the discussion we had earlier about animals:

            The Dilemma of the Sphinx
            Redefining the relationship between people and animals

            Unlike any other animal on earth, we feel compassion for our prey. We carry a burden unique in the world of biology because with compassion comes a true dilemma: as animals we have an absolute and natural right to prey upon other animals and compete with them for territory and resources. But how do we exercise this natural right while minimizing pain and suffering? The intriguing and original ideas put forth by Schweitzer and di Sciara offer a solution to the dilemma faced by a compassionate predator by redefining the human-animal relationship. The authors arrive at their unique perspective from a fascinating combination of common sense, practicality, and a deep understanding of the scientific principles underlying humanity’s natural evolutionary history and current place in the bush of life.

          • I will look it up. Thx. I’m not saying organized religions are not patriarchal or misogynistic – that is apparent. The degree to which they are the predominant source or cause of all gender injustice is less clear to me, for now.

          • As religions are manmade, they are not the FIRST source or cause of misogyny, but they are a source. They are manmade myths used to justify it. But after a religion is established it then functions as source/cause by teaching later generations its misogynistic myths, thus causing some in these generations who would not have become misogynists to become misogynists. As such, the debate as to whether religion is cause or effect is irrelevant – it is both cause AND effect, and either way, it serves to perpetuate misogyny.

        • mirror. That is why in most main stream protestant Churches people believe you can find the word of God in the Bible, not that every word in the bible is the word of God. There is a subtle difference.

  26. AP: Internet rape case jolts Wyoming city


    “A few days before the Casper woman was raped, she had complained to the Natrona County Sheriff’s Department that someone had made a false Craigslist posting about her, including photographs and personal information. The ad read, “Need a real aggressive man with no concern for women,” authorities said.”

  27. *sigh* What is Spammy ticked off about now? 🙄

  28. I’m currently reading Half the Sky by Kristoff and DuWann(?)

    I have to stop every once in a while because I find myself in tears for what these women are going through.

    There is something like 100,000 women killed each year becuase of “honor” fighting being prostitutes, etc.

  29. 13-year old Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was stoned to death in Somalia by insurgents because she was raped.

    In Sharia controlled Southern Somalia, it is LEGAL to stone women to death.

  30. It is amazing isn’t it—this hysterical history of the treatment of women. How could Christianity be responsible for burning “witches” at the stake and at the same time idealizing and idolizing the “Virgin Mary” and motherhood ? Why has the beauty of women been prized while the work of women despised?

    Do the Middle East, Africa and other spots of widespread cruelty to women and children need a Renaissance?

    I think that question about cause or mirror is a good one. As Hobbes said, the natural state of man is nasty, brutish and short—cruelty from our history is not reserved just for women. While Rousseau and others have written of a different natural state, if you read through “When the World Was Lit by Fire” or any similar history, cruelty seems common with moments of relief in Greece, even Rome, the Renaissance and some Native American societies. Books like the Kite Runner and A Long Way Gone tell us that in too many societies today the life of children is even more violent and cruel than anything medieval men could imagine because the weapons and the drugs are so much more available and deadly.

  31. Great post Littleisis. If we could get people to focus on women’s rights, the way so many did during the eighties over apartheid, we may see some changes.

    I watched SOS Clinton talk about the atrocities done to women and girl world wide at the annual congressional prayer breakfast. She also talked about religion being used as a basis to justify such oppression.

    The look on Obama’s face made me want to puke. He had a look on his face like she was a little woman with a hobby that he would tolerate.

    I can only imagine the friction she puts up with for trying to make the mistreatment of women and girls front and center in our foreign policy. I’ve heard the nutroots gang criticize her for not being tough enough on China for Human rights violation. While so many other countries are much, much worse in their treatment of women and girls, than China is of any of its citizens, these same nuts never speak a peep about. It never fails to amaze me that people get so upset about free speech violations of men, but utterly ignore the brutal violence and degradation of women and girls that are so often sanctioned and perpetrated by governments.

    Anyway, I’m glad Hillary Clinton is screaming from the roof tops where ever she goes and to everyone she talks to.

  32. can someone tell me why the mothers of the girls just accept this? I have daughters and granddaughters. If anyone including their father tried to hurt them he would be dead. No if and or buts. The so called men are sick twists but why do the women allowed them to act like rabid animals? I can understand fear but I can not understand why the women do not make the men afraid to sleep at night?



  33. Did everyone see Sarah Palin? She seemed pretty sincere. She really punched BO in the stomach — it was great. C-SPAN did a call in show after Palin and it was funny how many man called and said she’s not smart enough to hold high office. Memorable line – about being in politics – “Don’t be in the circus if you feel uncomfortable riding two horses.”

  34. The Drudge Report has an article from The Independent newspaper about the rash of rapes in Haiti camps.
    I can not link I am at work



  35. I have no patience for anyone trying to blame this hideous act on Islam. None. If you want to get on an anti-Islam soupbox, do it somewhere else, where people who aren’t ignorant don’t have to listen to you. This is not about Religion. This is not about class. This is not about Race or Origin or Ethnic background or location, t

    Of course it is also about all of those things. Violence and hatred of women happens in the west, but the violence at least, happens in secret and when caught the men doing the damage go to jail or worse. There is no place in America or Europe where such violence can happen in a public stadium.
    If you insist on ignoring the real differences in your life and the life of women in the ME and far east where Islam has become dominate then it is not the rest of us who are ignorant.
    I realize you were disgusted and upset by the event you read about, but that is not a reason to preemptively call anyone who might dare disagree with you, ignorant.
    Can you tell me please where there are honor killings taking place in a western country dominated by Christianity? And I am not talking about 3 hundred years ago.
    IMO, you do a disservice to women in the ME and Asia who live lives so much than what we here in the US have to tolerate.

  36. […] read Full Article : A 16-Year-Old Turkish Girl Punished By Being Buried Alive […]

  37. Honor killings occur in the United States, Europe and elsewhere among Christians. Only the nomenclature is different. We call them “crimes of passion” when a man kills a woman he believes to be unfaithful to him, or on the verge of leaving him because he’s an abusive bastard.

    Stop romanticizing the west and Christianity. Most rapes in the US aren’t even reported, either because the victim fears further violence from her attacker or because she fears being dragged over broken glass by the legal system. The same holds true of domestic violence in all forms. How many times has an American or European woman been beaten or killed while the neighbors listenend and didn’t call the police? Are the victims any less traumatized or dead because they weren’t assaulted or murdered in a public stadium?

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