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Griswold and Roe are dead, Joan

I just read Joan Walsh’s flimsy excuse for passing the health care reform bill as is.  Put me among the “fix it now, not later” camp.  Health care reform is vitally important for millions of families.  But why everyone has to be held hostage to unchecked insurance companies when good and thorough regulation that is found in other civilized nations could have spared all of us from profit and rent seeking monopolies is a mystery.  The Democrats had a chance to lock up their status as national heros for a generation and they’ve thrown it away by getting an F in negotiation skills.

But what is even more troubling is how they have allowed a few conservative members of their caucus to completely run over the rights of women.

Actually, women have no rights.

What this bill has exposed once and for all is that Griswold and Roe were fatally flawed decisions that were substitutions for women’s equality.  Almost as soon as Roe was decided, the move to pass the Equal Rights Amendment ground to a halt.  It finally died for good in 1982.  I guess we decided that it was enough that biology was no longer destiny.  A flimsy “right to privacy” was sufficient for equality.

We didn’t count on other people’s consciences eventually trumping our own.  It should have been obvious that this is what the fundamentalists were after.  They wanted some way to put women back in their place in their universe.  I don’t know why they need this.  It has never made any sense to me.  I suspect it doesn’t really make any sense to them either.  They don’t stop to think about the implications and the miracles of modern biology from birth control to DNA testing.  It’s just tradition.  It is written.  The fundamentalist conservatives are lagging indicators.

What this bill shows is that you can not have equality based on a right to privacy.  You can have all the private conversations you want with your health care providers.  But if their religious beliefs tell them that they can’t deliver your health care needs, you are SOL.  You are entitled to privacy but not your own conscience.  If you aren’t entitled to your own conscience and liberty, you are not equal and never will be.

And so, Joan, you may think it’s vitally important for the Democrats to insure millions of people and who can argue with that?  But they also have an obligation, after screaming at us for months on end about Roe! Roe! Roe! to not allow women to become the sacrificial lambs of the health care reform bill.  They owe young women that, especially the young stupid women they terrified and herded like cattle who threw away the one candidate that never would have sold them down the river for health care reform no matter what.

But if the Democrats do dump those women and Roe and Griswold die because Bob Casey, Bart Stupak and Ben Nelson’s consciences have more weight than more than half of all of the citizens of this country, maybe it’s the best thing really.  Women will see themselves as the party sees them- easily manipulated, lesser beings whose rights and needs will always take a backseat to everyone elses. It will pay lip service to Roe and then do whatever the hell it wants.  In fact, why even bother with the lip service?

And if it can’t take the time to stare Ben Nelson down, then it no longer deserves our support as a party.  Well, we’ve had that attitude since the RBC meeting of May 31, 2008.  We were ahead of the curve back then.  We warned you party loyalists that if you accepted the RBC hearing’s decisions without sticking up for the rights of the voters that the party would ignore your wishes in the future.  The result of the Obama camp victory was predictable.  And if the Joan Walsh’s of the world accept this bill as is without insisting on substantive changes before the Senate votes on the bill, then don’t be surprised at what comes after.

Here’s what’s going to happen:  Somewhere across the nation, some woman with an urgent need for reproductive healthcare will have a private conversation with her provider and that provider is going to tell her “No” and there won’t be a damn thing she can do about it.

If it can happen in Omaha, it can happen anywhere.

Roosting chickens, party unity and all that stuff, Joan.

197 Responses

  1. Oh man, the Ickes video.

    At the heart of things, the RBC ruling and Stupakistan are the same thing — the hijacking of autonomy.

    • yup
      That’s what the DNC wanted. And the starry eyed Obamabots fell right into the trap. It won’t get better until we come to terms with that one moment in history.
      Or abandon the party altogether.

      • I have not only abandoned the party, but also the system. I am a 71 year-old, life-long democrat who has spent the past year and a half trying to decide what to do next, and the answer is nothing. I’m sick to death of the constant solicitations for donations to the campaigns of phony democrats and manufactured causes. Ralph Nader was right–we do not have a two party system, just one party with two branches. I have better things to think about during whatever time remains to me that politics and polititians and have unregistered myself as a democrat or anything else. I won’t ever vote again.

        • I’ve got a plan for what we can do when the Democratic party solicits us for donations. But we need a lawyer who specializes in FEC stuff to help us set it up.
          Don’t give up yet. It’s exactly what they want.

        • I’m 65 and I feel the same way. I doubt I will ever vote Dem again – it’s a disgusting party of stupid frat boys who think they are smarter (and more grown up) than any of us. But I will vote against Dems. And I have Boxer and Feinstein to help get rid of. And it will make me happy watch this disgusting excuse of a party go down in flames. Now that Obama controls all the money no independent Dems exist any more (and, yes, once upon a time they did). And it is shocking the lamebrain excuses Klein and ilk come up with for their Messiah. Completely anti-intellectual. A true intellectual seeks the truth, not rationalizations for being wrong. Apologize, you idiots. Admit you screwed up royally.

          • ITA. Boxer has lost my vote on this one. So much for being an advocate for women. They make me sick. I will work against her. Feinstein isn’t for re-election for about 4 years, but she has to go to.

        • I’m putting together a collection of writings about the validity of not voting.

          Frankly, the meme about “voting out incumbents” doesn’t cut it, since if you get Republicans in there, you’re screwed again, probably even worse.

          So, why enable the Rethugs? Or, Democrats who are Republican for that matter??

          I will vote very selectively…in the past I’ve not voted for much of the ballot….maybe the ballot was thrown out (big deal a few years ago here in NM as there were discrepancies between those voting/not voting for the top of the ticket vs. lower down the ticket….simple answer was I, like many others, just didn’t WANT to vote blindly!!)

          At least I know that if I don’t vote, I won’t be contributing to the charade we have about our “democracy” and how “every vote counts” (which in reality, they don’t).

          We’ve got an economic collapse looming….study up on survival. It’s a better way to spend your time at this point than expending any energy on really thinking you can change the system!!

      • Actually, women have no rights.-RD

        When the Democrats didn’t count Hillary’s Votes I too realized then that in America ‘women have no rights’. Once Obama was elected and he mentioned the ‘BURKA’ as being OH so dam important to women I knew we wimmin folk were in more trouble than was apparent, and the press were all busy clapping.

        • What’s that line from Star Wars?

          “So this is how liberty dies… with thunderous applause.”

          • It was actually cheering – C-Span reported cheers coming out of the Democrats room last Saturday when they sold us.

          • It is truly shocking, and Gergans (sp) was on CNN calling this HR Bill ‘Universal Health Care’ 😯 and the program host let him continue without correcting his OUTER LIE!

    • That video is a classic. I wish every Dem voter would see it.

  2. It’s to the point where I can no longer tell what is manufactured support and what is groupthink.

    • for Walsh, Krugman, etc., it’s about defeating the GOP, not wanting O to fail and become a lame duck.

      They are still operating under the assumption that defeating the GOP sends some kind of message.

      The message that sends is useless, though, if the Dem party has completed its transformation into the GOP.

      • I am just in an utter state of disbelief.

        • SOD, until people are willing to vote with their feet–to walk away from the Dems–nothing will change. “Please won’t you listen to us?” campaigns, such as Jane Hamsher is trying to wage, are pointless unless you back it up. We don’t have the huge corporate dollars to bandy about, so all we are left with is our individual votes. And, if people just keep giving that vote to the same individuals and the same party, rationalizing that “the other side is worse”, then the pols know in advance that they can safely ignore public opinion.

  3. This is what I wrote to Joan (but did not send. Why bother?). Noooo! Do not reward the greedy, hard-hearted insurance companies. Sets a precedent, eh? Once that scenario gets the green light, it might as well be written in stone. Sorry. I wanted to hope, but these bills = anti-hope.

    And, to those of you praising the fact that this bill will keep med. insurance cos. pouring big bucks into the Dem. machine. – money isn’t everything. Sometimes the voters get so PO’d the money goes all limp. Outrage trumps money. You don’t just let somebody’s family member die and expect things will ever be the same again. Big stakes. Don’t know why people don’t seem to get that. Time is of the essence. The fools who are stalling real change in health care in the interest of big money might be better off considering the real people out here in neglectedville.

    Why does the richest (supposedly) country in the world have so many desperate citizens? Yeesh.

  4. I’d be willing to wage that the Nelson language will morph into the stupak language in the final bill.

    • That is precisely what Martha Coakley said last night!!!!!!!!

      • the part about women taking one for the team, that is..
        we’re going to cover more people!

        blahh blaaaaah blaahhh

        merry effing christmas.

        • Taking “one” for the team? She must mean one…and then another one…and another…etc.etc.etc. Because that’s how it really is.

          And who is this effing “team” anyway? Women shouldn’t “take” anything for it.

          • No kidding. Since when have we been treated as members of “the team” anyway?

          • To be fair, although I’m not really sure why I should bother, Coakley did not use the exact “take one for the team” line.

            But she did repeat what she said in Monday’s debate with her opponents-that she would vote for the Senate bill because more people would be covered, it was a first step, etc..

            Coakley said that although she was disappointed that the Senate bill “gives states additional options regarding the funding mechanisms for women’s reproductive health services,’’ she would reluctantly support it because it would provide coverage for millions of uninsured people and reduce costs.

            “It is a reminder that the battle for a public option and choice goes on,’’ she said.

            http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/12/21/coakley_accepts_abortion_restriction/

            she is full of shit.

          • She is full of shit.

          • we should take one for the politicians is what she means. Women are not and never will be leaders on the team until we stop voting for men. Martha doesn’t realize it, but she is running for the democratic party’s woman’s auxiliary.

          • Oh, Teresa, incredible description: the Democrat Party’s Women’s Auxiliary. So true. Get a clue, Martha. Equality begins with you and what you do–not with what they let you do.

        • Well, ain’t that historic. Women in this country have been asked to take one for the team ever since there was a team. I’m sick of it. I had high hopes for Coakley, her winner’s speech was so focused on women–major, major disappointment.

      • I’m glad I didn’t send Coakley any money or campaign on her behalf. I still rely on my intuition to judge someone’s character. I did it when I was looking at Obama, Edwards, and Clinton as presidential candidates and I did the same with Coakley. I know a lot of people here supported her but I always had a bad feeling somewhere inside about her commitment to women’s rights and her career as an attorney. I think she similar to Ted Kennedy, a typical Dem pol who will occasionally throw women under the bus to achieve “Democratic” goals. Whatever.

  5. These people live in another world.

    • they are beyond delusion.
      if they belive that….,

    • Wow. They need some meds. How delusional can people be? This is exactly the bill that Obama and the special interests wanted.

    • Let’s send him and all his minions to the 11th dimension, if they think that’s so cool.

    • Guess they didn’t hear from Obama’s own words about how proud he is of this bill, and that THIS bill is EXACTLY what he wanted & he never wanted the public option in the first place ….

      tp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/22/AR2009122202101.html?hpid=topnews

      • Thanks for highlighting that–

        In the interview, Obama vigorously defended the legislation, saying he is “not just grudgingly supporting the bill. I am very enthusiastic about what we have achieved.”

        “Nowhere has there been a bigger gap between the perceptions of compromise and the realities of compromise than in the health-care bill,” Obama said. “Every single criteria for reform I put forward is in this bill.”

        In listing those priorities, he cited the 30 million uninsured Americans projected to receive coverage, estimated savings of more than $1 trillion over the next two decades, a “patients’ bill of rights on steroids,” and tax breaks to help small businesses pay for employee coverage.

        A “patients’ bill of rights on steroids” ? That is what he actually said? ugh.

  6. No. more. compromises. Ha. I sound so tough. I really worry about real people.

  7. for Walsh, Krugman, etc., it’s about defeating the GOP, not wanting O to fail and become a lame duck.

    Yes. That’s at the heart of it. That and the neo-feudalism that Marcy Wheeler has written about so compellingly. Those that already have theirs don’t care about anyone else. It’s an old-fashioned Republican attitude that I remember from my youth, only now it has affected both parties and all their self-appointed spokespeople. We’re involved in all-out class warfare: the rich and comfortable versus the rest of us.

    Both parties are totally corrupt, and anyone contemplating a new party has to understand that it is the system that continues to corrupt. You can paste a new name on a new group of people, but once you allow them to take their place in D.C., they’ll simply be hamstrung by the same archaic power-brokering.

    Obama has already failed. His approval numbers are tanking daily. The press is no longer giving him a free pass, and he hasn’t even been in office a year. But Obama is merely symptomatic of the rest of the party. Politicians like Hillary, who grew up believing in public service, and a commitment to the public good, are gone. It’s all about money now, and I’m not sure we can change the pattern.

  8. I still have hope. It springs eternal ya know.

    • Maybe it’s time to try something else. “Hope”, rather than realism, is what got us into this problem.

      • I don’t think it’s hope that got us here. Real hope — grounded by healthy skepticism and action — drives human resilience. I’m not giving up on hope just because there are those who are always trying to co-opt it into some shiny Hope object with which to numb, distract, and bamboozle people. Marketers know that it’s human nature to want to have hope. They play on that cynically. That’s on them. Not on hope.

        • Well, I can’t attribute to “hope” any of the good things that have happened in my life. But maybe that’s just me.

          • I don’t think it’s just you–hope isn’t for everyone. But, as someone who does see some value in it, I think hopeydopey marketing is often a perversion of optimism. And not just when it comes to Obama, but more generally speaking when it comes to a lot of “positive thinking” pushers–most of them seem more like scamartists to me, encouraging people to dig their heads into the sand.

        • Wonk, but that’s not real hope. Real hope is something so ephemeral that it can’t be coopted, it’s that internal drive of our soul for something better. For Christians, it’s Jesus Christ incarnate. For the rest of us it is something that transcends humanity.

          The thing that really really pissed me off about the Obots is their coopting of the word HOPE to mean Obama.

          I just read of an author who really takes the positive thinking-ologists to task by saying that it is that faux-empowerment which is dumbing down people and turning us into slaves because we are just “hoping” for something positive but are unwilling to work for it. In essence, mere positive thinking has replaced hard work and sacrifice.

  9. Can’t help it. I’m only human. I don’t subscribe to superficial hope though.

  10. I had to skip Festivus this year. I would have lost it during the Airing of Grievances and ended up on the news.

  11. Happy Festivus and nighty night.

  12. RD — are you as angry as I am?

    • It’s almost like we never even existed except everyone remembers PUMA. For some bizarre reason, they think PUMA is all about Palin lust.
      It couldn’t be that there’s a misinformation campaign afoot to keep the severed parts of the left from coming together?
      I await next year’s slew of Huffpo posts announcing just that.

      • TM recently used the term “Obama’s pumas” to describe Obama supporters who can’t take the fact that some progressives, including herself, won’t fall in line and support Obama on everything anymore. According to TM, they are a cult of personality just like Hillary’s supporters who wouldn’t get in line behind Obama.

        • I only bring it up to show that it entirely misses the point to apply the term “puma” to people who are arguing FOR party unity. puma is a discredited term now, but it started out as a way to say that the calls for party unity weren’t enough to win people’s support.

          • I think she knows exactly what she is doing here. She needs to discredit the PUMA name, because she was wrong! She’s acting as though she is the Democratic Party and anyone not with her is “the other.” Suddenly she’s found independence and doesn’t know it.

  13. and BTW, excellent post, as always.

    • I heard Orrin Hatch got $250M for Abstinence Only education. Need citation.

      • We just gotta have it y’know?

        • It was only $50M. Still, do we really need it?
          I mean, if middle schoolers can’t deduce that not having sex means not getting pregnant or getting a venereal disease, then we have much bigger problems with education than previously thought.
          BTW, how does $50M translate in the classroom practically?
          “If you want to avoid pregnancy and venereal diseases including AIDS, don’t have sex of any kind. This message was sponsored by the Hatch amendment.”
          Why does that require $50M extra dollars?
          I suspect there is a lot more to the message than that and we wouldn’t like what it is.

          • Maybe they’re going to replace the condom machines in the bathrooms with standard issue chastity belts.

          • Chastity belts with combination locks.
            24 right
            go alllll the way around to the left one turn
            35
            15 right
            *click!*

  14. Off to work all. Try not to pull out all of your hair today. I think it’s all downhill from here.

  15. I find it baffling. Srsly. Especially considering how many Republicans have such twisted sex lives of their own. Wasn’t it John Ensign who tried to pay off his chief of staff so he could continue to screw his wife? And they’re members of The Family.
    Then there was Vitter and his diaper habit.
    And Larry Craig.
    But for some reason, they get all bent out of shape if a woman wants to control her reproductive plumbing.
    It’s idiotic that we put up with this shit.

    • Interesting point. In the old days, when NARAL was just a puppy, we ladies were willing to be far more brutal in our messaging. I think we could make a very interesting campaign to some of the House Democrat women based on what you just said. Oh, and don’t leave out Sanford, whose behavior the SC legislature decided wasn’t serious enough to warrant impeachment (even if the same didn’t hold true for Bill Clinton).

      • The thing that confounds me is that sexuality is something that most of the civilized world has resolved. You don’t see France or Denmark or England obsessing over women having sex. But this country is completely disarmed by the concept. Politicians have exploited this tendency in Americans to spazz out over sex but the tendency has always been there.
        And now, Democrats have decided to cash in on it. American women just let them do it. Joan Walsh might as well turn in her feminist creds at this point.

        • Well, we are a very juvenile society. We wage brutal wars on sovereign nations who pose no threat to us, because pathetic little men like Joe Lieberman want to fantasize they are John Wayne. The men are still trying to play cowboys and indians while the women have grown up.

          Over at Cannonfire today, Joe is blaming feminist women for convincing him not to paint nude women and therefore depriving him of his would-be artistic genius. Give me a break. But I think it goes to the truth of the matter: they think that if they can put on the guilt and the blame on us, it will somehow exonerate them. Doesn’t work that way.

        • Most civilized countries would not try to impeach a leader who had an extra-marital affair either.

        • It’s all about the power. 😦

  16. […] See also Griswold and Roe are dead, Joan. […]

  17. Riverdaughter, thank you for continually harping on the real point of our protestations since last year.

    It is NOT about Hillary. If any progressives are reading this, please understand that. Yeah, we were disappointed, yeah we knew Obama wa a fake and would sell us out, but pining for what might have been was never our main point.

    May 31st, and the video that RD posted, is important NOT because of Hillary, but because of what it allowed. It allowed votes to be ignored and maniipulated and made up out of thin air for the “greater good” of party unity.

    We were ahead of the curve back then. We warned you party loyalists that if you accepted the RBC hearing’s decisions without sticking up for the rights of the voters that the party would ignore your wishes in the future

    Wake up. What happened there is, in part, the reason for what is happening now. And what is happening now, if you support it with your votes, will be the reason for the future betrayals. It is not difficult to understand. The Democratic party will never, ever change so long as they know you will vote for them anyway – no matter what they do, no matter how they sell you out. Spare me the letters, the phone calls, the petitions, the money withholding. They don’t care.

    They can get everything they need, money or praise or whatever, from sources other than you. The ONLY thing you have that they value is your vote. And so far you have taught them well, that however reluctant, or pained, or battered, or bitter, or disappointed you are, they can still count on that vote.

    Do we talk about Hillary here? Sure we do. But you are mistaken if you think our message to you for the past year has been mere “shoulda coulda”. The message has been that if they did it to her, and they did it to us, they WILL do it to you. And it’s begun.

    • Whoa. Awesome! Could definitely see this comment being expanded into a longer diary.

    • Obama’s administration is doomed because of bad karma.

      Look at the way Bush took office and look what happened to his presidency.

      Years ago a someone told me to never buy stolen property because it has bad karma attached to it. You might think you are getting a good deal but before long the thing will break or you’ll lose it or someone will streal if from you.

      • people never cheat their way in to office to do good things. They might think their presidency or whatever is a good thing in and off itself…but it is not.

        • That’s what I kept saying: Don’t expect Obama to do really good things or act with integrity after the way he behaved in the primary. People who are bullies, cheats, etc, the “if they bring a knife, we’ll bring a gun” kind of thinkers do not suddenly become shining stars of integrity when they rise to power. They become despots, pure and simple.

      • ITA
        That’s why I don’t buy any healthcare industry stock/funds. They may make money but its such bad karma. Worse than owning tobacco stock.

    • Wow, exactly what this is about at TC – but unfortunately the progs haven’ t gotten the message yet. Maybe your clear and to the point comment will get through to them – we’re all in this together – we’re all being used and if we withold our votes we give ourselves back some of the power they now hold.

    • You can tell them, but they’ll never get it because they don’t know who they are or what they believe in. They vaguely understand that Bush is bad, but they don’t really understand why. One thing I’ll always remember is someone posting her about Hillary getting more votes than any primary candidate in history, and some unknown person materializing, giving a big sigh, and pointing out that Obama got the second highest number of primary votes in history and it’s not like they were separated by a million
      votes. As if that made it okay. As if anything goes as long as you’re under the million vote threshold. As if getting there by whatever means is justified. They just don’t know who they are or what they stand for. And until they figure it out, it makes it really difficult.

    • This should be the header of every PUMA blog, or the tagline at the bottom anyway. It was all about the voter becoming irrelevant.

      Remember when Obama argued that although he promised to accept only “public financing” of election funds, he chose the under regulated “private donations” because they came from the public? He even made the legitimacy of public financing of elections to be irrelevant, and the Obots ate it up in greedy mouthfuls with a big spoon. Years of fighting for the public financing of elections (a goal we Dems were striving for) was swept away with one flap of his mouth.

      Why do they still think it will be different one day is beyond me.

  18. If they do not stand in support of choice, how exactly do the Democrats plan to frighten women into voting for them? This may have been an act of political suicide.

    • How many abused spouses have you heard of who are men? Most of the women here have decided to leave the abuser. We’re not taken in by the oft-repeated phrase that it will never happen again.

    • Hillary will be on the ticket.

      • Only Hillary can keep me from voting for Palin in ’12.
        But Hillary had better be on the top of the ticket.
        BO needs to go spend some time with his Nobel medal.

        • She’s on top or forget it…because the Democrats have surely sent us the message with all this ‘trading women’s rights’ away…and we are none too happy!!!

    • They are counting on the voters to take away the message that the GOP and “blue dogs” are a threat to their abortion rights and they need the Democratic party to save them.

      • but now they’ve taken away “abortion rights” so they have no bargaining chip – they scr@wed the pooch.

        • I think Obama and the Dems believe only a minority sees it that way (i.e. that abortion rights have been taken away) and are relying on the majority just to see it as the rights being in danger from conservatives, but not actually chipped away at.

          • Exactly. From their perspective, nothing at all has changed. They’ll go about their business screaming Roe Roe Roe and Republicans!!!! when absolutely necessary, recruiting as many anti-choice Dems as possible to run, and expecting not to lose any women’s votes. And it will probably work out for them.

    • chat — they’ll just blame it all on the big bad Republicans.

  19. I disagree, it is not a few conservatives, it is every Dem who voted for this bill regardless of their current excuse and they should be held accountable. My belief is that Obama, Axelrove and Dem leadership Intentionally dusted of this Wedgie, that you correctly identify as useless in it’s lack of purpose but very usefull as a political weapon wielded by the Left maybe even more than the Right. And their intent same as always to divide inflame women on the right and the left the largest most powerful base of the electorate if combined against any legislation pharma dosen’t hold a candle to this power. Stir up the and bait the wacko Right as to paint them as nothing more than rabid misogynist the mysogynist card, so that their criticism or questioning appear deranged and not substantive dismissed, (think Bill Clinton as racist same game same song different identity group and wedge.)

    And unfortunately it appears to again be working and the real culprits every Dem voting for this legislation like Boxer are being left off the hook.

  20. B0bots, who barely noticed the loss of women’s rights, are stunned by Obama’s declaration about public option
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2009/12/23/i-never-slept-with-that-woman-public-option/

    • Edge — looks like the original wording has been SCRUBBED to now read

      this:

      “Creates a new insurance marketplace — the Exchange — that allows people without insurance and small businesses to compare plans and buy insurance at competitive prices.”

      and this:

      “Offers a public health insurance option to provide the uninsured and those who can’t find affordable coverage with a real choice.”

      Unless I’m missing something.

  21. RD, I really appreciate your focus on this issue. You’ve reminded me that our ancestors marched, were arrested, jailed, and endured forced feeding to give us the vote. The Joan and Jane crowd think that if they just play by the rules and wait their turn, these jackasses will see the light. Joan and Jane, here’s what happens when you try to play by the rules: See video above, dated May 31, 2008.

    • The suffragists fought so hard for us to have that right, and I wish it was held more sacred than it seems to be today.

      Voting rights are fundamental, but I think Mother Jones had a point when she said you don’t need a vote to raise hell.

      • True, and my point was really about the raising hell. If we women want equal rights, we’ll need to use a full court press. Here’s where I’m coming from: I haven’t had insurance for the past 5 years. I don’t have annual pap smears, mammograms or annual physicals, because if the doctor does find something, I can’t afford to do anything about it anyway.

        Now, you might think that I’d be one of the people Joan and the other sycophants are referring to when they talk about people who need help now. I am. But this bill isn’t going to give it to me, and I’m sure as heck not going to take “my fair share” at the expense of my sisters. Nor am I willing to pay one dime to underwrite the Medicaid patients of Nebraska over the Medicaid patients of Illinois, Wisconsin, or any other state. This bill is a POS and needs to be deep-sixed. If it comes to giving up my health or my life so that others have an opportunity for real health care, rather than health insurance giveaways, it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

      • The extension of voting rights to women and minorities is part of the ideological heritage of the left wing. They were victories for grass-roots acrivists and they stand as proof that these struggles are not futile and victory is possible.

        And when I hear how much shit our predecessors went through I think about one of today’s WATB lefties, whining because there wasn’t free coffee at the protest rally.

        That was what made last year so shocking – we had Democrats trying to take away people’s votes and most of the lefty blogosphere either sat silently or argued in favor of disenfranchisement.

        • The extension of voting rights to women and minorities is part of the ideological heritage of the left wing.

          That’s just it. Bobby Kennedy marching with MLK, Jr? I watched it on tv. But that was the past, and it was only the beginning, as far as I’m concerned. What have you done for me lately, Dems?

          I find it ironic, and sad, that blacks are really hurting in this economy, and yet they still give Obama higher approval marks than Dems generally. Obama was the crumb that was thrown to them, so in public–to the pollsters–they still say he’s doing a great job. But in private, they’re visiting and calling the offices of the Progressive Black Caucus, screaming from the pain.

          Me? I’m not taken in by a party that tries to rest its laurels on a liberal heritage that hasn’t existed since Lyndon Johnson left office.

        • That for me was the biggest shock to my being, not counting the VOTES!!!

        • well they had worked themselves in to such a rabid group of He man Hillary haters (wimps) clubbers that they turned a blind eye to the cheating by the DNC.

  22. Oh, man, I just read the Joan Walsh article – I go with the looters, but won’t insult opponents”. How very generous of her!
    For anyone to blab that this bill helps anybody besides insurers and pharma is either insane or craven – I bet on the second.

  23. It’s Huffpo, but it’s amazing that Obama lies so shamelessly and stupidly–doesn’t he realize there is such a things as videotape and archives?

    After Ripping Clinton And McCain, Obama Embraces Their Policies

    In an interview with The Washington Post on Tuesday, President Barack Obama challenged his critics to identify any “gap” between what he campaigned on last year and the health care legislation Congress is on the verge of passing.

    Critics, however, do have a few of his campaign pledges to point to. Most notably, Obama launched high-profile attacks against two of his campaign opponents for taking policy positions that are now reflected in the final Senate bill.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/22/after-ripping-clinton-and_n_401270.html

    • oops, just saw Wonk beat me to it upthread. Got to get up pretty pretty early to get ahead of the ever-vigilant Conflucian pack 🙂

  24. I’m really discouraged by what is happening to my country. The thieves are looting us and not even bothering to paper over their lies anymore. We have become an oligarchy, and both parties are owned.

    I was musing late last night over what We The People could possibly do to make them listen, as they do not fear our outrage in any way whatsoever. They don’t care about votes, because they own both parties. Makes no difference to them who we vote for. They don’t care about donation money, as they have plenty from their corporate masters. So what, short of armed revolution, would make them sit up and take notice. One can’t reason with them, or appeal to their better natures, so what could we the people do to make them AFRAID?

    The only thing I could think of to make them very very afraid is a bank run. Yep. Do what the banksters did last year, and threaten to crash the economy.

    Pick a date, and publicize it, and every single American who is fed up and sick and tired of their bullshit go to your bank and WITHDRAW every dime. If even 30% of the population did this, it would be a massive shock wave. They’d have to close the banks for a day or two, of course. Everyone wouldn’t get their money.

    But damn, that would scare them shitless if millions of Americans flexed their muscle like that. This is how discouraged I am – that I am thinking of insane things like this at 1am.

    • Look at what happened last year. Wall Street made lots of money fueling a housing bubble with bad loans. So when the bubble pops, the Wall Street boys demand a no-stings-attached bailout. And they got it.

      So then we find out that thr bankers are using bailout money to pay huge bonuses to the guys who helped tank our economy in the first place. Not only do the investment genuises get to keep the bonus money, but the crisis does not result in stiffer banking regulations or any Wall Street perp walks.

      • All I want for christmas is my own bailouuutttt ….
        Baracklaus please take back this unicorn that’s really a stinky goat out of my fitzmas stocking …

      • Yup. And not a single too-big-to-fail entity was broken up into smaller pieces. As a matter of fact, even MORE mergers and acquisitions were approved. The TBTF got even bigger. They are, if anything, a BIGGER threat now than they were before.

        The reason why there has not been, and will not be, regulations with teeth or any perp walks, is because the politicians know that the banksters can do it again, if they so choose. That gun is still to our heads. If our govt does anything at all to threaten them, all they have to do is flex a muscle and make the DOW drop a few points. Message received, and the govt backs off.

        That’s why I was musing on what would happen if the People did some flexing of our own, in enough numbers. The banks aren’t the only ones who can threaten annihilation.

        • They won’t listen to us, but they will listen to their corporate masters. Apply pressure to the corporations to the point where they scream “uncle”.

          Problem is, there are still far too many Dems who think Obama is doing just fine. (See example, standard type commenter, Daily Kos) It might just end up being us–the rump remainder of true liberals–and the Repubs. Don’t know if that would be enough.

          • We are beyond carrying signs. They don’t care. But things like bank runs, nationwide general strikes, etc hit them where it hurts – the pockets of their masters.

          • Another thing that could stop this insurance-giveaway debacle is for millions to cancel their current policy. Immediately. And sign public pledges that we will NOT purchase insurance from any of them.

            But that’s a huge sacrifice, and in all honestly I don’t think even I am at the point where I am willing to do that. I might be at some point, but not yet.

    • I like your thinking, WMCB. However, just in case the banks tried to play hardball, I’d give it a one-week period. Also, I don’t know if it’s still the case, but when I was in banking, every Wednesday banks had to prove to the Fed that they were within prescribed leverage ratios. Banks without a large base of depositors had to scramble for overnight funds to shore up the equity side of the balance sheet. So they know how to cover one-day shortfalls. One week? Or longer? That’s a different can of worms.

      • Yup. I know it’s a drastic idea. But I honestly have been wracking my brain trying to think of what would put the Fear of God into them. Protests ain’t gonna do it – there could be 15 million marching on washington, and they wouldn’t care.

        If money and power is their foundation, then an organized bank run as a protest might shake that complacency and arrogance, bigtime.

      • Make it a month, then. Pick a month as “We have Power, too” month, and tell people to start withdrawing cash in chunks over that month.

        • Need to check with dakinikat, too, to see how credit union deposits are treated. I don’t think there are any credit unions affiliated with banks, and I don’t think credit unions are FDIC insured, but a massive movement of money away from the banking oligopoly is certainly a start.

          • I belong to a credit union, and it is FDIC insured. I think most are FDIC insured.

          • Excellent. Do they offer things like VISA debit cards?

          • Grays Lady

            Yes they do. We bank with a credit union. I don’t think I would ever go back to a bank after banking there. We have had way less problems since leaving Walkallovaya bank(Wachovia).

          • Thanks, cwaltz. Love your nickname for Wachovia.

            How did you choose your credit union? Is there a way to find out which ones are well run other than pouring through individual financial statements?

          • I’ve been with a credit union for close to 20 years now. They’re not affiliated with banks, they are covered by FDIC and most if not all offer VISA or MC debit cards.

            The thing is to strike the big bank corps–BoA, Chase, Citi, other national chains. Shift your deposits into a credit union or a small, locally owned bank if you can still find one.

    • I like the idea of a managed bank run. We could do it “periodically”. But let us not give up the option of armed revolution. I have a big cast iron skillet that could work really well.

    • WMCB, amazing! I’ve had the exact same idea for some time. Take every penny out of your bank. If you need checking, debit cards, etc., open a credit union account. Same service but much cheaper. Some time ago, in the UK there was a nationwide…it seemed almost spontaneous…revolt over banking fees…overdrafts, balance transfers, etc. The Brits boycotted the banks and the banks caved. Money is power. Individually, we’re poor; united we’re billionaires.

      WMCB, I’ve been following you around the blogosphere now for almost 2 years. I wish you would get a regular column.

  25. Sorry, I haven’t read all the comments, so I’m sure this has already been said. Just add my two cents to the pile.

    It’s so freaky how the progs act like abused wives. “OMG, I can’t leave him. Where would I go? What would I do?” And those of us on the outside looking in unable to fathom why they don’t GET THE HELL OUT!

    To be honest, I’m so mad I wouldn’t even care, but they’re dragging all of us down with them.

    • I”ve said before that the Obots behaved like domestic abusers last year.

      They spent months telling us that we were old, stupid and ugly.

      They were not vague or ambiguous when they told us we were not wanted and that we should go away and leave them alone.

      So we left and came her, but they followed us and kept harassing us. I wish I could have seen their faces when they first heard about PUMA and found out we didn’t give a fuck about party unity and we weren’t ever coming back. .

  26. We are surprised? NOT! The same Dems who threw HRC under the bus are throwing all women under the bus.

    Where do we go? To the streets, the halls of congress, the net, the airwaves. To building a political pack that is strong enough to make a difference. You have seen what a hold out in a tiny state can do and can get just by saying no and refusing to cooperate except on his terms.

    We can do this. We can make all those sweetheart deals that dismissed us and minimized us look like small potatoes (and I am not referring to yukons and fingerlings).

  27. Off shore banking for ex-pats?

  28. think the only way to fiix the DEM party .thats it can be fixed is to tear it down & start over again.

  29. RD, a polite request: seek a publisher for your collected posts. I’d like to read them sequentially on paper.

    • Ooooo. Possible fundraising idea for future actions: Democracy Is Not Dead Yet, The Best of The Confluence.

  30. Now that’s a great idea

  31. You just can’t get it through the progressives heads that even if they despise Hillary, what happened at that RBC meeting affects THEM.

    If the power structure of the party can take away her delegates, then they can take away ANYONE’s delegates. If they can discount our votes, then they will most assuredly one day discount yours. If they can arbitrarily assign delegates to someone you like, then they can arbitrarily assign delegates to someone you hate. And they WILL, one day, because you let them get away with it this time.

    It’s the same damn argument that we raised with the right-wingers who didn’t care about Florida in 2000. It doesn’t MATTER if you are happy with the outcome. The fact that anyone’s vote can be stolen is a danger to YOU, you idiots.

    • WMCB, i think you hit the nail on the head

    • & they can take alot more than that .

    • Yes, it’s that arbitrary capability that drives me nuts. We really don’t have any control whatsoever.

      And the progs just don’t get it.

    • Well, remember, most of the people who can’t understand this message are the ones who still think, no matter what happens, “Dems good, Repubs evil”. That’s why I think blogs like Daily Kos, who insist that they are a site that supports Dems, will increasingly become irrelevant. Whereas “non-denominational” liberal sites, like The Confluence or The Reclusive Leftist, will increasingly pick up more traffic.

      To me, it’s all a bit like the post Glenn Greenwald had awhile back. He was asking readers who once were screaming against Bush’s abuse of civil liberties whether they were still screaming now that Obama was following the same practices. It was clear from the comments that a lot of people still didn’t understand the disconnect in supporting Obama even though he was violating their constitutional rights.

      • When I frequented Kos, there were almost daily posts about civil liberties, chilling of free speech by leaning on the media, wiretapping, rendition, paid military mercenaries, expanding Executive power, etc.

        Now? Crickets. All that zeal for civil liberties just *poof!* disappeared now that it’s the Obama administration doing it.

        There are very few, either right or left, who have genuine principles. I know a few conservatives who really did scream their heads off about Bush’s unconstitutional abuses, but the majority didn’t. And we sneered at them for it. Now the opposite is true – very few liberals care now that it’s OUR “team” that’s trashing the Constitution.

        Our country is boiling down to those few who actually stand by principles (whether right or left leaning) vs. those who just want THEIR team to be doing the abusing and oppressing.

        • Seems to me DKos and others like them gained a credible voice in the national media because of their rightful opposition to the Iraq War and all the Bush excesses that came with it. No small feat. They helped turn Congress in 06 and helped give Obama the primary in 08. But when I read their soundings these days, it’s apparent that above all, they crave attention and relevancy. There is really no consistent and underlying political or economic philosophy I can discern. Their idea of progressivism appears primarily wrapped up in the referendum on race relations in America. Of course prejudice, bias, bigotry exist in our society, at many levels, and the struggle for fairness and justice is a constant one. But for the Kos’ of the world, was racism the progressive priority on their blogs before the 08 primaries. Maybe it was. Today, much like Potus himself, they don’t seem to know what they stand for until they have their script from Axelrod and company. Sad to watch the millenials become a generation of dependent thinkers.

  32. The progressives will try to use stuff like this to scare people to vote D or else:

    • You mean the ‘VALUES’ candidate that left his wife fighting cancer on her own, and asking for a divorce at her hospital bed….gosh RALPH NADER MAY JUST GET TO BE PRESIDENT!

  33. The fact is, there are more than enough female Democratic Senators and Representatives with a voice to actually make a difference. Why aren’t they speaking out? Because they know that their silence and complicity will be justified and overshadowed by the left’s penchant for blaming men, Republicans and Bush, not necessarily in that order. Unfortunately, the outcome is the same and the next ‘wave’ of female politicians will do the same.

    • Except that this time they’re blaming us. According to them, anyone who doesn’t support this sham bill is “denying others the right to improved healthcare”. Nice try ladies, but we aren’t buying.

    • They aren’t saying anything, because this bill is all about giving a “win” to Obama and bailing out the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Oh, and gutting Medicare. Social Security is next.

    • What? Blame the women? No there isn’t enough of them to make a difference and that is the whole problem. They are trying to increase their numbers not decrease them.

      I sincerely hope I misread your post because it looks like the ranting of the men’s rights movement to me.

  34. NY Times:

    WASHINGTON — Rebuffed this month by skeptical lawmakers when it sought finances to buy a prison in rural Illinois, the Obama administration is struggling to come up with the money to replace the Guantánamo Bay prison.

    As a result, officials now believe that they are unlikely to close the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and transfer its population of terrorism suspects until 2011 at the earliest — a far slower timeline for achieving one of President Obama’s signature national security policies than they had previously hinted.

  35. boo hoo-Obama promised!

  36. Teresa Heinz discloses breast cancer, writes op-ed about mammograms:

    http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09357/1023054-109.stm

    • The mammogram guidelines are just that — guidelines. The guidelines are not designed to apply to any women with risk factors. Heinz even points out that her physician “insisted on investigating beyond what the mammogram could show,” without realizing that she just wrote about one of mammography’s downsides: false negatives. Some types of breast cancer do not show well on mammography until advanced. False positives are far more common. This yields scarring, which in turn makes future mammograms of the area difficult to interpret. The subject doesn’t lend itself easily to a short sound bite. Susan Love, MD, has some good articles on the controversy. http://blog.dslrf.org/?p=116

      I am glad Heinz’s cancers were only stage 1 and that she has a good prognosis.

    • I really like Teresa Heinz. She was the best thing about the Kerry campaign and I wish she could’ve been first lady because she’s very outspoken and a fighter like Hillary.

  37. I called Alice Germond at 3 a.m. the day of the sham “roll call vote”…on her cel phone.

    I’d been calling her all week in DC and when she left for Denver, she put her cel number on her voicemail greeting.

    I didn’t speak with her that night, but I left a voicemail and sure as hell hope I woke her up.

  38. OT..but another e-mail from FDL saying “stop the health care bill”

    My response: (should have said you are fucking idiots but I was nice)

    “A day late and a dollar short….Where were you in the Dem. primary??? Barack Obama hasn’t changed, he is the same politician who did the same bait and switch as a State Senator in 2004. Where were you after the Barack Obama’s back room deals were exposed??? Totally off the mark with Jane ranting about Blue Dogs, Lincoln, Lieberman, etc. This massive transfer of public wealth to the Insurance Companies was negotiated before Barack Obama stepped into the White House…Why didn’t you try and stop it when it was stoppable.

    Such poor judgment it the main reason that I gave up on FDL during the Dem Primary. The continued poor judgment by FDL as demonstrated during the Health Care Scam confirms that my decision to eliminate FDL as a resource was correct.

  39. OT, but interesting news from an Orthodox religion:

    “The head of the Russian Orthodox Church said Wednesday that although the church views homosexuality as a sin, gays should not face discrimination.

    Patriarch Kirill said “those who sin” must not be punished and therefore the church opposes any discrimination. Same-sex unions, however, should not be considered equal to heterosexual marriages, he said.”

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2010573252.html

  40. OTish: Does anyone know the status of the Fitzgerald investigation?
    Remember Fitzmas?

  41. Stopped by to say hi to the Conf. RD. In our lifetimes?
    How has all of this happened?
    How?
    I feel for the girls in B’s generation — all girls. They have nothing right now. Oh, and PUMA was about Hillary, not Palin.
    Hillary is a feminist.
    PUMA was about Hillary because of “the sisterhood” — plus more.
    Anyway, hope all is well and I wish The Confluence a very MERRY CHRISTMAS in the grimmest political times ever.

    We are watching the baby boom try and run things and just look — total failure on every front. If Hillary were in charge this would all be so different.

  42. So, what is story about the proposed group to oversee Medicare and to take control out of the hands of Congress? Is this a right-wing scare tactic?

  43. NEW THREAD UP TOP: SAME SUBJECT

  44. The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 46% Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -21 That’s the lowest Approval Index rating yet recorded for this President (see trends).

    At the end of his second term President George W. Bush had a 43% disapproval rating.

    In less than one year Barack Obama managed to piss off more people than George W. Bush. A good solid B+, Barack.

  45. Wow, after reading Joan’s piece, it’s obvious that the propaganda hooked her! The public option became the ideal, and the elitist view that has replaced all rational thinking in their heads that “I reject simplistic lefty schematics.” I’m getting tired of being referred to as a simpleton just because they set up a straw man which didn’t exist: The ideal goal wasn’t the public option, it was single payer. If we just merely wanted to increase the pool of coverage of 30 million people we could have just pumped up Medicaid. That debate wouldn’t have lasted nearly as long. But instead Sen. Feingold is in jeopardy of losing his seat in Wisconsin because our state is losing Medicare/Medicaid money of approx $1 billion, while Nebraska is set for life to have other states take care of it like some deadbeat kid that moves in to his parent’s home because he believes he’s above that provincial necessity called “work”.

    Also, the idea that Obama sold himself as a Centrist is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard from the Obamapologists yet! “I think people who sold Obama that way will be helping to dig progressives out of a ditch for years to come. ” OF course, its NEVER about Obama’s responsibility.

  46. Found your site and I concur that the DNC ruling on 5.31.08 signaled an end to our rights as women and voters!

    Ding Dong, the ERA, the ERA is dead, dead, dead. Long live the conscience of men superceding our own. As this bill legalized again the predominance of what they want over us little women with no thoughts in our head.

    I hang my head in shame at the New Democratic Party.

  47. Fine post, RD, but–WHAT mystery? There’s no mystery at all. The DINOcrats are bought and paid for just like the Elephascists, just by somewhat different corporations–the Elephascists are owned by the Death Gadget (aka “defense”) and Earth Raper industries, while the DINOs are owned by the Intangible Bull$#!+ industries (Finance, Insurance, Entertainment, etc.).

  48. I believe it is time to start axing religious organizations that lobby congress for control of women’s reproductive rights. Call it a “comingling of chruch and state tax”. They have violated the law by lobbying Congress and they are not entitled to use their buly pulpit unless they are willingg to pay the price.

    The proceeds of this tax would go to compensate any woman forced to carry out a pregnancy she would otherwise have terminated. Anbd I don’t mean any old cheapass welfare compensation. I mean whatever that woman sacrificed by giving up her life for an entire year. It is not cheap. I have four children. With each pregnancy, I wieghted my options and decided for myself that I wnated teh child, and that I could afford it.

    I do not want to hear about how women should be more responsible and not get knocked up. One of those children was conceived when I was on birth control pills, and the last one was conceived after my husband had a vasectomy. Birth Control fails.

    Many women do not want to have children and they shouldn’t have to. Women die, and children die, too. It takes a toll no matter what your circumstances are, and if you have no choices, it is even harder.

    The Church only started trying to weed out their pedophile priests when they got sued. They were forced to pay out billions to little boys whose lives the ruined. They should have to pay for ruining girls’ lives, too.

    I don’t know if you can sue them for orcing you to have a baby against you will, but they can be taxed. If we can be taxed to pay for provate insurance company profits which take away our choices, It is only fair to tax the entities that take away our health decisions. No woman should have to pay for any pre or post-natal care ever again.

  49. All I have to say about this health care bill is this, its not right to force people into getting something they might not want! Look I already pay a 3rd of my income to dam taxes and fees, now they want to force health insurance on me too. I don’t want to have to pay some big fat insurance company the rest of my income! You have to have car insurance and now health insurance too! What if I can’t afford it? What if I have a better use for my money then to put it in the hands of people like AIG! Haven’t the rich robbed the poor enough? Look insurance is just a bet between you and the insurance company, your betting that you’ll need the money on the policy, and they are betting that you don’t, but they win no matter what! So you pay the insurance company for the rest of your life hoping something bad happens so you can use it and its sad! Some says what if, but I say it should be my right to choose if I want it or not! The US is becoming more communist more everyday, force people to buy into a bet is just wrong! Is that why the soldiers died to defend their right to force us to do what they want? I hope not, so please someone stop these sorry a-holes and make this country great again!

    • That’s funny, I read this exact same comment word for word just yesterday.

      • It’s beginning to look a lot like spam! 😉

        • No I just want to most people to read it, not that its going to do any good, but at least I spoke my mind about it. Its sad how a government controls the citizens that pay them for work that the government should be doing but its not doing. I hope that makes since, sorry if it don’t. What I’m trying to say is, we should be tell them how and where to spend our money not for them to tell us how they are going to spend it and to hell with what we think. Like my next post, the money they spend is ours not their’s, and we should be more in charge then them when it comes to our tax money that they have be throwing away at bailouts and things like that. What they have done lost 61 Billion dollars so far on that bailout crap? How much more are they going to have to lose before the dumbazz citizens of this country wakes up? How far in debt are they going to drive us tax payers into before we say enough is enough? Not long for me I say its enough now! How far in debt has this out of control government put the tax payers so far? How many generations will it take to pay it off? How much of slave to debt we out great grandkids be because of this? And why has no one done anything about it? Why oh why have the people of this country just gave into all the bs and let them take advantage of us like they have? Where are the brave? Where are the ones that say enough is enough? America, what has happened to you that makes me want to cry? What has happened that I don’t want to bring a child into this world if they are going to be a slave to over taxation, too many government fees, and now having to have health insurance if they want it or not? To be paying some insurance company my hard earned for the rest of my life and just hope something bad happens just so I can us it and then have them go up on my rates just because I used it, its just sicking! Also forcing people to have car insurance is wrong too, because no matter what they charge you have to pay it and for what a bet! Dam how did the people of this country get so dumb, to be taking advantage of like that? So please people stop this in justice that is the health care bill!

  50. I hope the health care bill don’t pass, but it looks

    like its going to, and it makes me sad. I wish

    everyone in the US would call these a-holes and tell

    them not to pass it, but I guess most won’t and they

    probably won’t listen anyways until we vote them

    out, which I hope that what happens at the next

    election. I didn’t think the Democrats wasn’t like

    this, mans was I wrong, they say they are 4 the

    working man yeah right, I don’t c that hear trying

    to force health care down our throats with out

    asking us if we want them to redo health care. Look

    for everyone that read this, hey they are suppose to

    work of us! We pay them not the other way around.

    All the money they spend on bailouts, this health

    care bill, all the money is our hard earned money

    not theirs! So we the people need to make a stand

    and tell them not with my money your not! Every

    dollar they spend, waste on some dumbazz bill, every

    dollar they make is our money and we should have a

    say in where it goes and what they do with it.

    Without us tax payers there is no government!

    Without our hard earned taxes that they take and

    spend how they think it should be spend, there is NO

    US OF A. ! Without us the average joe, the average

    tax payer they are nothing and it kills me that most

    people don’t care what they do with their hard

    earned money, but I care and I wish that the

    citizens that are scared or don’t care would grow a

    back bone and stand up for what is right! So please

    stop this stupid health care bill now!

  51. Oh one more thing and I will post no more. Say they pass this bill, ok you go out and get health insurance and then you get laid off, what then? Which I know they have that COBRA thing, but that runs out some time. Say you don’t get a job for awhile, what are u going to do? Think about it people once they pass this you will have to have health insurance for the rest of your life! Paying some insurance company you hard earned money every month, I know some will say will I have insurance and all, but what if you lost it for some reason, then you will have to pay their price for the insurance and they can charge anything they want and you’ll have to pay or pay a fine. So if they charged you your whole pay, how will you live? I know really no one cares so I’ll shut up and start looking for a new country to call home because the land of the free don’t exist anymore and it makes me want to cry!

  52. I just am itching to call Dem HQ’s after the holidays and give them a big “F*CK OFF!”

    I’ve done it before and I’ll do it again. It won’t be pretty, but it will cleanse my soul.

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