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Put down the Kool-aid and step away from the punchbowl


I really thought saying “I told you so” would be more fun. From Michael Moore:


Dear President Obama,

Do you really want to be the new “war president”? If you go to West Point tomorrow night (Tuesday, 8pm) and announce that you are increasing, rather than withdrawing, the troops in Afghanistan, you are the new war president. Pure and simple. And with that you will do the worst possible thing you could do — destroy the hopes and dreams so many millions have placed in you. With just one speech tomorrow night you will turn a multitude of young people who were the backbone of your campaign into disillusioned cynics. You will teach them what they’ve always heard is true — that all politicians are alike. I simply can’t believe you’re about to do what they say you are going to do. Please say it isn’t so.

It’s so, Mike. You fucked up and bet on the wrong pony. How’s that “hope and change” bullshit working out for you?

Maybe you should have learned your lesson back in 2000 when you said there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference between George Bush and Al Gore. Stick to muckraking and stop endorsing bad candidates.

From another bad judge of character:

On Tuesday Barack Obama will announce a major escalation of the war in Afghanistan. A week later he’ll be in Oslo accepting his Nobel Peace Prize. Pretty good timing, no?

There should be some red faces in Oslo next week. I wonder how they’ll feel when Obama orders the bombing of Iran? Then he can put “first Noble laureate to start a war” on his resume.



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152 Responses

  1. I didn’t see this movie, so I’m wondering if MM mentions the candidate from Golden Sacks anywhere in it?

    • I saw it. Moore claims that the financial meltdown last year was a blind. In his view, TARP was about the banksters getting the Treasury looted before angels lifted Obama to the Oval Office and he ended their dastardly ways.

      He does mention that Obama received more campaign contributions from Wall Street than anyone else. However, he makes it sound like Obama got that money after the TARP vote–it was given to Obama in order to corrupt him. Translation: Moore was right to support Obama when he did because Obama was then carrying the flag of the righteous. The post-TARP Obama is not the man Moore endorsed and shilled for–the banksters got to him. Moore’s rationalizing is really pathetic. This is who Obama always was, and Moore got punked.

      Moore does have a good interview with William Black. Black said Geithner is wrong about everything, but consistently wrong in ways that favor the banksters.

      • Poor Barack, he’s been led astray.

        • Feh, “Corrupted at a later date” my ass. Obama was tight as a tick with the whole Goldman Sachs and subprime Ponzi scheme crowd all the way from his Chicago days. Which the Left would have known if talking about or investigating his past was not deemed taboo and RAAAAYCIIIIIST!

        • I know you’re joking, but I think it should be emphasized across the intertubes that saying Obama has been led astray – as the Democratic apologists do all the time – is racist. It is implying that Barry is too stupid to see the obvious, or too weak-minded to resist.

          Again, know you’re kidding, but I would encourage everyone to spread the word far and wide that this meme of being led astray is NOT what they want to convey. It says that Obama is not as smart as his other race counterparts might have been, and that is racist.

          • WTF?

            It’s only racist if you believe that intelligence and race are connected.

            You’re buying into the idea that all criticism of Obama is racist.

            That’s bullshit.

      • I don’t think I can ever watch another of his movies.

    • I read an interview he gave on Democracy Now. He talked bout his burying his head in the sand

      So, somehow I’ve told myself that those campaign promises that he will not keep are expanding the war in Afghanistan, pushing a healthcare plan that leaves the profit-making health insurance companies in charge of the plan, and, you know, a number of other things that I think a lot of us are concerned about, but—because, obviously, you’re not ever going to agree 100 percent with any candidate on any particular thing. But I’m just—I’m just convinced that these are the campaign promises that perhaps might, you know, not get made—or kept, I should say. So, I don’t know. We’ll see.

      • Yeah, and he also thought that wonderful things would come from attracting this “movement” of well off college students who, btw, tend to be pretty gosh darn conservative and hate things like unions, democracy, the less well off, and ethics. That worked out great, too.

      • Did he even say anything there? I can’t parse his words.

        I must be tired. Heh.

        • He said that if you pretend Obama’s a completely different politician with a completely different record, you could probably justify voting for him. The good thing about this is that it works for anybody. Vote Bush and pretend he won’t do anything he says he’ll do or his record indicates.

  2. Actually, no one’s going to be disillusioned because nobody cares. Unless they’re going to be drafted, students are fine with it. Obama still looks hot on the poster, Michelle’s still wearing $800 shoes, and nobody’s found out yet they have to pay for health care. Hillary’s still boring and Sarah’s still got bad fashion sense and a weird speech pattern. Everything’s fine.

  3. Hey Mike, you screwed the pooch on health care reform too.

    • It’s not Mike’s fault, it’s Obama’s fault! Mike bears no responsibility for his stupidity, lack of judgment, or general shadiness. Darn you, Obama! Stop making such a stellar group of bright, lovely people act like idiots and thugs. Just stop it already!

  4. Obama was very clear about Afghanistan being the “good war” during the election. Was Michael Moore not paying attention? Doubtful…. What is more likely is that Moore and people of his ilk are more than happy with their preferred candidates LYING to get elected. Think about it… if Moore thought Obama would never do such a thing (send troops to Afghanistan) then Moore MUST HAVE BELIEVED Obama was a liar during the campaign… and he was OK with that… screw morals and ethics, JUST WIN BABY!

    • Somebody said last year that Obama’s true gift is that when he lies his followers believe him, but when he tells the truth they don’t.

      • remember how Obama bragged about being a master at playing Poker? That said enough for me.

        • His being such a great poker player…meaning he must have won more often than he lost….really means he was gamed by the big boys. It is a well known tactic that people who want to pass money to a dirty politician often use a poker game as a way to do it. Old 0bama was given his cut in the form of a “big pot”. He is such a stupid arrogant dolt. 11 dimensional chess my foot. It isn’t even 2 dimensional poker.

    • He wasn’t all that clear. There are a lot of people who supported the invasion in 2002 who would not want us to stay there now.

      • I supported the original invasion to get Osama and Al Queda.

        They aren’t in Afganistan any more, so what’s the “job” he wants to finish?

        • Make Afghanistan safe for democracy? Beats me, we should get the hell out of there now!

          • Yup. I’m not a pacifist. I can reluctantly get behind winning a war, if I think it’s a necessary, though sad, evil. My one requirement is that you tell me what a “win” looks like – in concrete terms, please.

            *cue Afghani crickets*

          • If you don’t define your goals, how will you know when you have achieved them?

        • Perhaps there is no intent to “win” a damn thing in Afghanistan, and they merely want to have troops nearby ready to move if things go to hell in Pakistan and the wrong people try to grab the nukes. The Afghan mission is a fake.

          I can understand that. But if that’s the deal, then TELL us that, and let us decide if keeping our guys over there playing that waiting game as their REAL mission is one we support. Don’t bullshit and tell us its about the Taliban in Afghanistan.

          • The Afghanistan war is now about protecting a pipeline route. I would bet there is no worthier cause.

          • Could be the Afghan war is now just an excuse to shovel money to the MIC and contractors.

          • The Afghanistan war is now about protecting a pipeline route. I would bet there is no worthier cause.

            That is what the Afghan war was always about from the beginning. That is why I never supported it.

        • The job he wants to finish is, secure the pipeline routes and keep the opium flowing. Oh by the way osama died from kidney failure in december 2001

        • I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

          • Do you have the primary prerequisite?

          • What? A total lack of experience?

          • SOD–do you have some kind of ranch or fake Camp David that you could do some photo ops with?

          • No, but i do have an old kool-aid pitcher, a blackberry, and a waffle maker. Will that work?

          • maybe. We need to find you an Axelrove who can make a re-enactment ad out of a speech you made to an audience of a few sockpuppets in 2008.

          • A total lack of experience?

            Exterior plumbing.

          • it’s not the gender that’s the prereq. The powers that be fear strong women, because strong women are by definition autonomous and do not play by the rules of the good ol boy network–they cannot be owned.

            Any man or woman that can be owned is the one that big money will back. If it happens to be a man or woman breaking a symbolic barrier, all the better for the corporatocracy’s PR distractions.

          • whose speeches will you be giving and calling your own?

          • Don’t know what they’ll use to usher in the next puppet. With this one it was race. Maybe that will work again. Are you Asian? A woman? Just as long as you have no ethics and no morals, and no need for a useful, logical life.

        • What you said!

      • Count me among those. I saw the sense in going into Afghanistan, getting Bin Laden and his cohorts, breaking up their operations, and getting out. That COULD have been done very successfully if that was where the focus had remained, and we’d done it fast and hard. But noooo, all eyes and resources were on Iraq.

        By now, it’s meandered on and on, Bin Laden et al are not even there anymore – the camps have moved on to other places. We missed the opportunity. No point staying and fighting the battle we SHOULD have fought 8 years ago. That battle, and the window for fighting it, is long gone. You can’t go back.

  5. As far as I’m concerned, Michael Moore is an excellent bellwether for who NOT to vote for in the general election. Can this fool ever get it right?

    I will never forgive Moore for beating women up with the abortion stick. In 2000 he decreed that Roe v. Wade was unimportant. Then in 2008 he did a complete flip and insisted that in order to protect Roe women had to vote for Obama. The man is a complete a$$, and mean-spirited one at that.

    • I used to say that if you want to keep abortion legal, vote for the Republican. Abortion was a useful rallying tool for the Republicans — too useful for the party leadership ever to want to see an end to it.

      But now, with the teabaggers taking over the GOP — I’m not so sure. I think the new Republican party might actually mean it.

      • are the tea baggers taking over the party? What is actually so bad about them other than that some of them believe that all democrats are socialists?
        They believe that this bill is crap and will cost us a lot of money. They are right. Even Howard Dean said the same thing.
        Where I differ from them is that they want no government health care and I want all government health care.

        • well, democrats ARE socialists.

          first was the ridicule-“ha ha they think we’re socialists!”

          which recently morphed (right here on TC) into “if we can only convince them that socialism is good!”

          anyway. are people really still calling them “teabaggers?”

          fer chrissake.

          • Uh no……Barack Obama is a Democrat and he’s nowhere near being socialist.

          • I think the laughter was about people thinking Obama is a socialist. Bernie Sanders is a socialist, and I’d vote for him for President in a minute.

          • CWaltz
            Obama is no democrat!

          • You can’t pigeonhole teapartiers. I was a lifelong Dem until last year – until the DNC ushered in BO. He is here to sell America down the river, starting with shoveling cash to banks, etc. Teapartiers include those, such as myself, who oppose such ridiculous behavior. I’m definitely not a Republican, but am now considering myself “unaffiliated.”

  6. mike makes good movies but he should stay out of politics. He is always wrong in his choices.

  7. Michael Moore is the Glenn Beck of the Left.

    An entertaining buffoon who is all about self-promotion and having a “cause” and followers. While he sometimes says things that are true and points out real problems, he is still a general sleazeball more enamored of his own “underdog leader” vision of himself than anything real. Yep, the Beck of the Left.

    • but Beck dresses better … I totally agree with you though. One thing the Obamamania taught me is I am disgusted with Limousine LIberals (not Al Franken, who isn’t one anyway).

      • My thing is that I now differentiate between what a person says and who they are. I often agreed with many of the things Moore said. I sometimes agree with with what Beck says. They have both pointed out (in rather flamboyant ways) truths that others are afraid to touch. That’s a helpful thing at times in politics.

        But they are still both flaming egotistical assholes, with agendas that are more about them than their “causes”. Truth can come from anywhere, even the mouths of dickheads. I just take that into account when hearing either one bloviate.

        • Hahaha. So true. And the more extreme their assertions, the more simple minded. Complexity hurts their head.

  8. I completely agree that MM is the Beck of the Left.

    This is encouraging in a way. Only 0.125% of Republicans think Cheney best reflects core GOP values. That must be the Cheney family plus Jon Meachum.

  9. I’m actually surprised that he isn’t waiting until after Oslo to announce the escalation…..whats the diff if he dithers another week. There must be something they see he would gain from this… otherwise what effing idiots.

    • His speech: “I’m on my way to a carpetbombing! See ya, suckers! Who ever said Europeans were smarter than Americans?”

    • TOTUS needs time to compose itself. You don’t want it to explode like the Star Trek androids Kirk was confusing with illogical input.

    • Nope. It’s the let’s get mired in an unwinnable war speech first. Then to Copenhagen for the airball on climate change. Then to Oslo where if he does anything besides refusing to accept the Nobel, his arrogance and ignorance will have transcended to a level beyond mortal comprehension.

  10. Oddly enough, being able to say “We told you so” doesn’t feel all that great to me these days.

    It’s a pretty hollow “victory”.

  11. Yep, MIQ. “wrong pony”

    I used to be a fan of his early films — but?

    I guess it could all be fodder for a new film, no?

  12. I’m sure Obama will immediately rethink the Afghan plan now that Michael Moore has set him straight..

  13. In a related issue:

    The Supreme Court on Monday set aside a lower court’s order that called for the release of photographs of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan being abused by American military personnel. The high court told the lower court to re-examine the issue.

    The justices sent the case back to the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, in Manhattan, which ruled in 2008 that the pictures should be released to the public. But at the request of the Obama administration, the Second Circuit later postponed its own order, setting the stage for the administration to take the case to the Supreme Court.

    “at the request of the Obama administration”

  14. OT, FYI:

    Great news from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Former President Bill Clinton.

    “Chelsea Clinton to wed next summer–Former first daughter will wed Marc Mezvinsky, says Clinton spokesman”: MSNBC – http://bit.ly/8vipxU

    BBC News: “Chelsea Clinton engaged to marry boyfriend” – http://bit.ly/4ATk46

    Please post notes of congratulations to Secretary of State Clinton at The U. S. Department of State FB Page’s Discussion Topic that I started – http://bit.ly/90lW1f and /or at the U. S. Department of State Website’s Comment Section – http://bit.ly/5hHdMM

  15. “Choose carefully, President Obama. You of all people know that it doesn’t have to be this way. You still have a few hours to listen to your heart, and your own clear thinking. You know that nothing good can come from sending more troops halfway around the world to a place neither you nor they understand, to achieve an objective that neither you nor they understand, in a country that does not want us there. You can feel it in your bones.”

    It’s sad how much Moore still believes and is unwilling to give it up, a lot like a little boy trying to convince himself that Santa really does exist after just seeing his dad eat the cookies and drink the milk while laying out the presents.

    & just a little comment… is Moore alluding to the fact that Obama doesn’t know about Afghanistan because he NEVER held a meeting when he was the subCommittee Chairperson for Europe, which overseas NATO, which has influence over the War in Afghanistan


    • Thanks for bringing that up – I’d forgotten all about it, even though that was one of my “strong” arguments against Barry during the primaries.

  16. The comments on that Kevin Drum post are hilarious. Those bots are getting really angry!

  17. You should see the comments to the MM’s letter on DU
    Someone unrec-ed the post and another explained

    Because disagreeing with Obama = spitting in the face of Baby Jesus.

    Haven’t you noticed?

    I failed to see where MM disagreed with Obama in that oh so humble begging letter.

  18. Cheetoville replies to Michael Moore:

    You know that I know? How do you know – have you been sitting in the back of the situation room without me noticing somehow?

    Reminds me of when the wingnuts were defending G-Dub’s decision to invade Iraq.

    You don’t have all the information he has!

  19. Say what?

    Saying it’s time for Republicans to do more than “take pot shots at ACORN,” freshman Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz will call on President Barack Obama on Monday to bring U.S. troops home from Afghanistan.

    An anti-war wingnut?


    • Sounds good to me 😯

    • He makes a little sense. May not last long in Congress.

      Earlier this year, Chaffetz traveled to the region and said that, since then, he’s “become more engrossed in my conviction it is time to bring our troops home.”

      “I am opposed to nation building, and I quite frankly don’t see or understand what victory looks like,” he said. “I believe, as most people do, that our military can do everything we want them to do. … But we’re asking them to fight a war that is not very well-defined. And we are asking them to do so with one hand tied behind their back.”

      Chaffetz said the House GOP is divided over whether to “go big or go home” and acknowledged that the “go home” contingent is probably in the minority.

    • Didn’t the GOP get all peacenik when Clinton intervened in Bosnia? i was wondering when they’ll figure the political advantages in switching again.

      • The GOP was against Clinton on Haiti earlier. Funds for Somalia were cut off by a bill sponsored by McCain in the Senate. 😉

  20. Arthur Silber:

    So many meetings of the war council! So much intense deliberation over so many months! So many knowledgeable experts training their finely honed minds on the problem of Afghanistan and Pakistan! So many challenges to conventional wisdom and the policies inherited from the reviled Bush administration! So much independence of thought, sober reflection, and careful calibration of the array of competing objectives and concerns!

    Truly, the operations of our government — and if not of government generally, certainly of the Obama administration — are a wonder to behold. We are comforted by their deliberate, subtle approach, we are bathed in the soothing liquid of their studious avoidance of easy slogans and empty rhetoric. These are profoundly thoughtful people, putting forth their best effort to arrive at the best solution for all concerned.

    And so, so many people fall for this stinking load of unmitigated shit.

    If you’re not reading Arthur on a regular basis you should be.

    • I love the way he writes —- oozing along and then we get the punch line. English is such a great language

      And so, so many people fall for this stinking load of unmitigated shit.

    • Thank God for Silber! Got another one to read — Thanks!!!!!!

      how can so many people by the bullshit when all we see is the Obama Admin partying, are any of his gang of advisors been on TV discussing the Afghanistan War? I gave up watching the “news” shows over a year ago.

      A political junkie without a newshow to watch is [fill in the blank] 😉

  21. Dear Michael Moore,

    Your letter is little too little and a little too late. GO AWAY.

  22. I hate him completely

  23. When choosing the Best Candidate that just happened to be a woman; Hillary R. Clinton…MICHAEL MOORE FAILED.

    Then he failed to push for a PUBLIC OPTION because he was busy singing Obama’s praises, and he sat SILENT when Women’s Health Care was ASSAULTED and ELIMINATED COMPLETELY!

    I don’t believe he is an advocate of the people, he is just making money off the people at this point and time. He is many days late but many dollars richer, while the people suffer.

  24. There’s another incredibly childish diary up at DK, telling MM, “shame on you” for invoking Obama’s mother. MM is gonna find out that seeing reality means a lot of koolaid drinkers are gonna hate his guts. LOL!


  25. Obama to detail big troop increase in Afghanistan
    WASHINGTON – After months of debate, President Barack Obama will spell out a costly Afghanistan war expansion to a skeptical public Tuesday night, coupling an infusion of as many as 35,000 more troops with a vow that there will be no endless U.S. …

    I’m hanging out these days mostly at a blog about the Romanov’s . We are discussing stuff that happened 90 years ago…But I have to tell you, the current shit that passes for ” news ” feels no less set in stone.

    After months of debate, LOLOLOLOL!!! stop it ! You’re killing me! Like there was any question about a troop increase? Obama has his peace prize, let the good times roll!

  26. Just a little P.R. for my site: the “we told you so – next time think before you vote” sticker was created by scott at Deadenders for Liberal Rapture. It’s available at my store. Or just grab and post. I love seeing it places. Our “fraud” poster has become a gay rights rally mainstay.

    done bragging… for now… And FYI: I LOVE saying “told ya so”.

  27. Michael Moore shaming Obama over the war will have as much impact as Obama shaming the banks over HAMP workouts.

  28. I will wait for our SoS to testify before Senate Foreign Relations this week. She’s the only person I will listen to on the war.

  29. A troll named Jackie Spam was here (briefly) whinging that “Hillary would have done the same thing” in Afghanistan.

    Maybe so, but if she did she would be wrong too.

    BTW Ms. Spam, this is no longer a PUMA blog.

    • Hillary will never get a chance to demonstrate what she would or would not have done, so let’s blame her in theoretical terms for Obama’s actual actions.

      Works for me.

      Let’s also blame Omar Bradley, because military people like war!

      • Exactly. While we’re at it, lets all talk about what Alton Brown would have done as President. It’s about as relevant.

        • Alton would turn his presidency into a show called Good Reads and show us how to use the teleprompter for different topics and settings, complete with trivia about oratory and rhetoric. At least it would be educational.

    • Hillary did not campaign as the anti-war kumbaya Messiah. He is a:


      All their whining about HRC’s Senate vote re: Iraq, and that’s the best they’ve got now? At least she tells you up front–which is why the fantasists chose the liar and expected ponies.

  30. To Moore: It IS so, you dimwit. Trying RESEARCHING YOUR CANDIDATE next time.


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