• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    Catscatscats on Gee-7
    Kathleen A Wynne on Gee-7
    William on Gee-7
    William on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    riverdaughter on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    lililam on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    Earlynerd on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    Earlynerd on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    lililam on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    lililam on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    lililam on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    William on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    William on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    Ga6thDem on Healthcare, Medicare and …
    William on Healthcare, Medicare and …
  • Categories


  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

    November 2009
    S M T W T F S
    « Oct   Dec »
    1234567
    891011121314
    15161718192021
    22232425262728
    2930  
  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – August 25, 2019
      Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – August 25, 2019 by Tony Wikrent Economics Action Group, North Carolina Democratic Party Progressive Caucus Strategic Political Economy Give No Heed to the Walking Dead [The Scholar’s Stage, via Naked Capitalism 8-18-19] The People’s Republic of China is wealthier than any rival America has faced. Its leaders are convinced […]
  • Top Posts

  • Advertisements

Senate Healthcare Deliberations and Votes: Live Blog

Tawk amongst yourselves…I got nuthin

Advertisements

243 Responses

  1. Orin Hatch is on now complaining.

    • Please stop the world, I’d like to get off now….

      • Link the CSPAN feed.

      • Yes, stop the world with this new ‘FeMANist’ bull, I can’t take any more… !

        SOMEONE WAKE ME UP AND TELL ME IT IS ALL A BAD DREAM! Why aren’t little girls being woken up by the likes of SCHOOL HOUSE ROCK…Sufferin Till Suffrage & Sufferin Till Suffrage & Sufferin Till Suffrage…

    • From the article:

      The company director of Laird Assessors from The Wirral, Cheshire, said: ‘Bring it on Burkha Barbie, I think this is a great idea.

      ‘I think this is really important for girls, wherever they are from they should have the opportunity to play with a Barbie that they feel represents them.

      ‘I know Barbie was something seen as bad before as an image for girls, but in actual fact the message with Barbie for women is you can be whatever you want to be.

      A barbie covered up in a burkha is supposed to tell women they can be whatever they want to be. Right.

      • “You can tell it’s Mattel, it’s subjugation.”

      • Yes, you too can aspire to sub-human chattel status.

      • yes, you too can be a 21st century slave.

      • In a culture where women’s bodies are never seen, how will that work for girls to have Barbie be the example?

      • Be whomever you want to be….as long as you wear this costume that keeps your scary lady-body self covered up, to protect us “rational” men from being uncontrollably seduced by you. Oh yeah, and so we can keep you from driving, or working except as domestic slaves, and so we can continue to stone you for doing what men do with impunity.

        Ugh.

  2. Did you know they added the “Conscience Clause” protections to the House bill?

    • oh, great imaginary beings of the multiverse!! save us from the idiots that make you up in their imagine then demand the rest of us follow you!

  3. The republicans are using Obama’s pro-life comments.

    • What a friend we have in Jesus…

    • Obama’s comments aren’t pro-life, they are pro-“punishing a woman with a baby” —

      • I was referring to his speech ever on healthcare before Congress.

        • Yes I knew what you were referring to… I was being sarcastic about his pro-life pandering in terms of his previous “punishing” comment… if you look at it through that lens, his anti-abortion rhetoric in this healthcare debate stems from wanting to punish women…

          sorry it didn’t translate 😉

  4. Crazy ass Republicans piss me off……….

  5. I wonder if we can find someone who will propose that we who oppose elective wars no longer are required to fund Iraq. Last I heard the majority of Americans don’t want that either.

  6. Can they add a few more abrevviations to that womens name phD, CEO of the alphabet…..

  7. Pro-life people just drive me crazy … Johanns is saying protohumans are citizens … what a nutcase

  8. Franken is on

  9. This was from yesterday… Wyden-Reid-Baucus amendment… looks like they got Wyden on the unity train…

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/68897-sen-wyden-wins-big-healthcare-concession

    • The agreement between Wyden, Reid and Baucus would change that.”The agreed to amendment will make it possible for these individuals to convert their tax-free employer health subsidies into vouchers that they can use to choose a health insurance plan in the new health insurance exchanges. The Congressional Budget Office estimates a previous version of this provision will expand coverage to more than a million Americans,” according to a statement from Wyden’s office.

      • ?? Now why would I want to give up my present employee-partially-paid-for plan for one that covers less (no women’s preventive care) and doubtless costs more? Is that what they mean?

        …expand coverage to more than 1 million. Great. We have at least 49 mill not covered now. Many more with inadequate coverage.

  10. Blanche Lincoln is on now. She’s voting to move it to debate.

  11. Are these people required to be boring? Even Franken was a snooze-fest. Blanch sounds like she’s talking from a computer-generated script.

  12. OT: the nutroots reaction to Bill Clinton not going to the Arkansas Free Clinic was well..nuts. Lots of CDS and trying to pin the current healthcare mess on Bill.

    • If Olbermann wants to do it, it can’t be a good thing.

      • yeah, I just thought it was so laughable to blame the current mess on Bill. First of all, this is Obama’s mess to own, not the Clintons. Second of all, Bill has been so minimalist in his comments about Obamacare, sticking only to the politics of it rather than the policy merits of it, and after the dirty game Axelrod and the press played on Bill in 2008–well even if Hillary weren’t part of the Administration, Bill would still have a helluva time if he was perceived as blocking Obama.

    • Plus I believe Bill has a vested interest in it.

    • I saw that today, I couldn’t believe it.

      I went to FDL to read the story because I saw the title:

      President Clinton to Skip Arkansas Free Clinic, Blames Olbermann for Politicizing Event

      Here is the first couple of comments.

      fuckno November 20th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

      what a disgusting slithering piece of shit! The political animal finds the event too political?! Fuck him over and again. I hope that Democrats will finally start seeing this dick head for the corporate shill that he is!!!

      Cock sucker!!

      eCAHNomics November 20th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

      Well, I guess we now know that Bill is voting for Blanche.

      MadDog November 20th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

      Is Bill kowtowing to Blanche because of a better blowjob?

      Jon Walker November 20th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
      In response to eCAHNomics

      He can’t Bill is a new yorker now

      I just gave up. Notice how no one is making an argument against what he said. This is how you lose an srgument.

  13. Bob Corker is up … he’s playing the they’re going to wreck your medicare card!

  14. I think Levin made it clear that he was just voting to open the debate … they all say they’ve got problems with the bill the way it stands now … is that employment insurance or for real, I wonder?

    • I don’t even know why they’re going through all this blathering nonsense. They already know how they’re voting. Just get it over with.

  15. Hey guys!

    I will try to watch along as long as possible.

    I just remembered why I despise Republicans, as much furious as I am with Democrats.

    SoD,
    why did you put up the link? Just to ruin the rest of my Saturday? This is at time stomach churning.

  16. I’m hopping up and down on one foot, trying to keep my exasperation in line, because I can’t see it. Do something! Sign BB’s petition on keeping Stupak out.

    http://action.barbaraboxer.com/page/s/fightforwomen?source=ffwh_bulletins

    And tell me what’s going on!

  17. These phony back and forths are beyond laughable

  18. Cornyn’s mad because the rules forbid amending without 60 votes after this procedural vote.

  19. If that is true, then this must be the big fight.

  20. Coburn: “care delayed is care denied”

    *eyeroll*
    Yeah we are there already DUMBASS

  21. Harkin said something earlier this week about cloistering them all there if the repugs attempted a filibuster. I think he meant the actual debate of the bill. Right now I am sensing a lot of yadayada and resultant glazed eyeballs. Obama better keep his mitts off of it.

  22. Hatch must not have practiced reading his lobbyist notes. He mistakenly cited a stat as 29% when it was 29 states.

  23. Did Alexander just call Medicaid a “Medical Ghetto?” Oh dear Geebus!

  24. medical ghetto? wtf?

  25. Schumer: “when Democrats fight to strengthen Medicare…”

    hahahaha! when Democrats fight… is that like when pigs fly?

  26. Any filibuster is at the hands of the Dems.

  27. Klobuchar just defended the length of the health insurance bill by saying… Bush’s 3 page Tarp bill didn’t work out so great, so take that!

    • I too find the argument that the bill is too long ridiculous.

      • That was the filibuster tactic the repug were threatening – to read the combine house and senate stacks of around 4000 pages.

      • I don’t think the number of pages is a ridiculous issue; simplicity is the mother of good design. Those multitudinous pages are rife with the opportunity for pork and those sentences and phrases that screw us.

        • So a much shorter bill will do?

          • HR 676 would do.

          • Not because it’s short though. It’s because of the content.

          • also because the content is accessible.

          • and there’s no pork in it.

          • You’l never avoid a legislative language in a legislation. If Congress were to get serious about HR 676, you would see it balloon.

            A legislation like this that include so many other parts of the existing system has to refer to those, cite a bunch of other legislation, paragraphs, and so on.

            The problem with any bill is never really it’s length. Moreover, Rep who are whining about the size of the bill now have put up some lengthy bills of their own.

          • Yep, coordination with things like Vets acts, and agreements with Indian nations, tribes, bands and non recognized groups.

          • I didn’t say anything about avoiding all legislative language or that hr676 wouldn’t get bigger before it would be in a position to end up passing. But, it started off someplace where people can actually follow what the hell is going on. The bills that the House and Senate started out inflated before the public had a chance, imho.

          • HR 676 would do.

            I personally would like the option of HR 676 and feel that the Republicans are shoving a PRO INSURANCE BILL ON ME! Why bother to elect Democrats if they aren’t going to fight FOR MY RIGHTS!?!

  28. SPAMMYYYYYYYY!!!!!

    Lemme out, Goddammit!

  29. I do not agree with any of the reasons Repubs/Blue Dogs give for opposing this bill; I just hope they are successful in killing it. Beyond that I don’t think I really care; I think I am going to start looking for a medicine woman. We have a lot of Indian Casinos and Reservations around here; there must be some shamans in the ocotillo somewhere.

    • Back to the dark ages for US medical care.

      Break your neck — get sent home in care of family members. This is cheaper for the Insurance companies —

      We are getting a great lesson in what happens when the Corporations rule.

  30. Landrieu = $100 million Louisiana purchase. What might Rep. Grayson call her?

  31. Landrieu = $100 million Louisiana purchase.

    What might Rep. Grayson call her?

  32. The guy that replaced Biden isn’t very smart. Neither is the guy that replaced Kennedy. They keep making a lot of mistakes. He forgot cobra as an example … and how expensive it can be when you lose a job. He said if you lose your job you just lose your insurance … completely overlooked cobra.

  33. Is calling Medicare and Medicaid “Medical Ghetto” the marching order Republicans received before going to the debate?

    • yeah, I think that’s it. That and they were saying no one wants to take Medicare and Medicaid patients any more because of the ” biggest deadbeat on the planet” the federal government.

      • the government is not dead beat, it just doesn’t pay enough. That is why they do not want to take it. Doctors all think they are entitled to get rich no matter what…with rare exceptions.

        I honestly hope this bill dies. Single payer is the ONLY money saving solution.

    • medical ghetto, healthcare gulag… and I think I heard some GOP gasbag say something about this bill putting Medicaid people in jail? I dunno, I was on the phone at that time.

      • I understand that if you do not purchase insurance you are subject to a fine and the fine is collected through IRS. If you do not pay up, then you are subject to IRS rules that can lead to prison time ala Al Capone et al.

  34. Oh gawd…now where’s that volume button…

  35. Well he has a point.

    • So if this bill is introduced as using the House bill HR. 3590,
      rather than HR 3962, and both bills become part of the package, and neither side has 60 votes to change the bill, it’s going to be interesting to see how they work your example out.

  36. I just refreshed my screen and realized old Harry is giving us the finger. Did 0 teach him that maneuver?

  37. great “medical ghetto” Alexander is back on.

  38. Re: Medicare and Medicaid—this is becoming a serious problem. My husband had to have a late night emergency service and our closest emergency room is in Brawley, CA. It is definitely a medicaid ghetto nightmare. You can make fun of it folks but I can tell you that the level of medical treatment is absolutely 3rd world and the place was packed with mostly Hispanics and almost unanimously and obviously poor. Such places can not attract skilled medical doctors or technicians. These are the places and the people who are invisible.

    Medicare is also becoming a medical ghetto in our area. The Eisenhower Medical Center which is the largest and most skilled medical center in our area will no longer take Medicare patients. Republicans are not making this up; it is a reality in too many places and most of those places are in the less densely populated areas that tend to be pretty politically red and semi-rural and poor.

    • they should just call it “third world level of care” then or something. I think Medical ghetto makes it sound phony and just is really jarring to hear them keep saying it when this healthcare reform is (supposed to be) about addressing the unacceptable level of care that we’re already at… the GOP rhetoric totally ignores that.

    • If those are the only places poor people have to go -then of course they’ll be overcrowded.

      The whole point of UHC is to stop the overcrowding by making access to the whole system available to everyone.

      The super rich or even simply the well off elderly will always get a fast track, but that doesn’t mean the rest don’t get a decent system either.

      It’s like the difference between State University and Harvard. State Universities (such as those in California) are still pretty good (being the equivalent of a national health service). UHC is by no means the equivalent of some ghetto evening school. (in Europe anyway).

        • It could be if they were discussing UHC, but they are not. They are discussing an insurance company bailout instead. Remember?

          • correct that THE legislation being proposed is an insurance bailout! but there are really two debates going on with the Ds and Rs are talking past each other. 1) one about ANY government involvement in health care
            2) and one about the specific legislation that the Ds are trying to pass right now. The Rs are attacking both 1 and 2 when they say “medical ghettos.” The current giveaway to the insurance industry is not worth supporting at all, but I also oppose the GOP’s arguments on the first debate–and that’s where laurie’s analogy comes in.

      • In our area, the county has opened up the safety net and a friend who is in Real Estate recently had to sign up because she could no longer afford health insurance and the insurance didn’t cover preventive care. So, she joined for a small fee and will finally get her Women’s Health Care issues taken care of.

        How Frickin sad that a women in he late forties has to be made to feel bad for trying to care for her Health Care needs in a crappy economy. Why aren’t real stories being told rather,than the false hoods of scaring people about accessing health care with ‘THOSE PEOPLE…THE POOR PEOPLE’.

        Funny, how we can send ‘THOSE PEOPLE…THE POOR PEOPLE’ to WAR without giving it a second thought!

  39. If the Senate rule on this is going to be that you must pass any amendment with 60 votes then this is the biggest sham on the planet because they are not going to get 60 votes on any amendment.

  40. They’re really pounding away on the timing of provision implementation.

  41. Gulp!

  42. You folks seem to be under the illusion the Senate is debating Health Insurance “Reform”. It helps to remember they are not.

  43. Did I miss Leiberman? Haven’t caught where he’s at on this.

    He’s #60 as far as I can see.

  44. And the most pressing question of the evening….do they shut their books and go home for the holidays after this vote? or will they keep working?

  45. The sound is all messed up on the CSPAN feed. Anyone else having a super-echo?

  46. Baucus on the podium now.

    • yeah I’m snoozing too.

    • Dr. Howard Dean: Baucus Bill is Not Reform; Public Option Will Happen

      • Dean did some very good health-care changes for Vermonters when he was gov. Measures to enable seniors to get home care so they could stay in their own homes — and the costs were cheaper than nursing home care.

        But I’d be surprised if we get a public option in this Administration. And I bet Dean is even more p-o’d at 0bama now than when he was shafted after the elections. He should have known not to trust a guy who wants the rules broken for him.

  47. {{{sighs}}}

    • I’m not sure if I heard the number right, but I heard Cardin say this bill will cover “98% of Americans” when he spoke earlier.

      • Not until 2014 and hell freezes over.
        I think the only big reform that takes place immediately is that you can not be denied insurance due to a pre-existing condition.

  48. Is Reid flipping the bird at women in that pic?

    • yep

      • I just talked to my dad, he said he thought that with what was going on with healthcare thing with blocking access for insurance for all abortions and the changes in pap smears and mammograms that it was definitely aimed at not getting good health care for women, he said it was like they were trying to transfer money to keeping men alive …

        he’s got two daughters and two granddaughters and I think we’ve finally made him a feminist

        go dad!!!

  49. The senate bill reforms are scheduled to start in 2014 because that is how they could get the numbers under a trillion $$$$ and under the House bill $$$$. What do you think the American public is going to think when they learn that:

    1. They start paying for this “reform” immediately.
    2. They do not begin to get the benefit of most of their bargain until 2014.
    3. It does not add to the deficit in the first 10 years ONLY because they will be paying for it for 4 years before it takes effect.
    4. Congress and the presidente will be collecting money for 3 years that will not be paid out to hc—I am sure they will put that in a lock box somewhere so that it will be available in 2014. roflmao.

    • There’s a political strategy behind it.

      • I am sure you have all seen that graphic cartoon about “ordering a swing” and how it goes through all the departments in planning and design you get something that is totally unworkable and not at all what you ordered. That is health care reform American style.

        Long live the Republic for which we all stand, shake our heads and sigh.

  50. 15 minutes till the vote.

    • SOD you paint a solid and sure future for us. Wonder if Obiewondermanchild will have to dither around signing it? No. Probably try to figure out how he can jam up the constitution so he can be there for the 2020 rollout.

  51. The vote is starting

  52. What the heck did Dodd just say this bill was?

    • did he call it this? To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to modify the first-time homebuyers credit in the case of members of the Armed Forces and certain other Federal employees, and for other purpose

    • who can tell … he’s probably had a five martini dinner with his lobbyist friends

  53. Lieberman just voted “aye” — they have 60

  54. Olympia “the one lone republican vote” voted “NO”

    Specter voted “Aye.”

  55. Aye yi yi, get ready for news coverage saying the Senate bill has passed a major test.

    • Yep. yet about 10-15 of those voting “aye” want to erode it substantially in both the areas of the public option and choice language.

  56. Too bad. Oh well, it still has a long path to follow before any laws get passed.

  57. 60 votes “Aye” 39 “No.”

  58. woo hoo, insurance hell here we come!

    • Eh, all they’ve done thus far is basically debated on “debating” health care reform. As someone above pointed out there are a whole lot of people liable to vote no without their favorite pet projects being part of the reform package.

      Whew! I sure am glad that they got the debate over whether or not to debate over with. Geez. No wonder people think government is a waste.

      • oh I agree, but the symbolism of “the Dems moving the bill forward” will be milked.

      • Yeah, but they’ll all look like fools with this I voted against it after I voted for it stuff. Not that they mind looking like fools ordinarily, but….

    • MA should really jump on this. “You might as well move here, Mitt Care may suck, but it’s inescapable now. If you’re gay, you can at least get married.”

  59. Now they go on “holiday” — they’ll be back after Thanksgiving.

  60. Dodd is shameless. This is what they are attempting to do for the first time in this country?

    • Wow. is this really the first time the Senate voted to discuss a bill?

      that’s really sumpthin’

  61. We don’t have to pay these guys overtime for being in session on a Saturday, do we?

  62. Wow, I don’t know how people can sit at a computer station all day. After I stopped hopping, I sat down and my butt is now officially numb. Thanks for the feed, everybody. I’ve got to go and move around.

  63. Does anyone think there are 60 votes to pass that language?

    • I agree. The last thing they’re afraid of is consequences from the left for passing Stupak. There will be none, and they know it.

  64. Congratulations ladies and gentlemen. Our Senate just spent 10 hours debating about whether to begin debating.

  65. on cspan 2 (replay of 11/18/09) gore vidal just called Obama “a warlord like his predecessors”

    • Obama should invite him over for a beer summit, they can bond over his disgusting remarks about Polanski’s victim.

    • Is “a warlord” a good or a bad thing on the planet where Vidal lives?

  66. That’s disgusting. Sexism is wrong against Palin and okay against Pelosi??

  67. I have to wonder why I’m still getting BO emails about Sarah Palin instead of about health care reform. She is not that big a deal right now. Priorities, people.

    • I emailed them back and called them a bunch of liars…..I then wrote a tirade excoriating them on leaving out low cost birth control, protecting the conscience clause, and including stupidstupak language in reform…..Palin is the enemy my backside.

  68. hey boogie, I wondered that too.

  69. THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE: $300 MILLION FOR MY VOTE!

    ttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/21/AR2009112102272_pf.html

  70. My my, Obama approval rating is below 50% in Iowa. If only if keeps falling, can you say one term lame duck?

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20091121/NEWS/91121005

  71. I was working while all this was happening and was just too stunned to comment. Well, really I expected the crap to pass, but I’m still amazed when they do this to us.

    So here’s a question about these bills and what’s likely to be in them. If a state already has some sort of public option or other good measures, say like Dean’s state, will this bill force those states that have better systems to abandon them for the insurance company giveaway?

    In other words, is there a state I can move to or do I need to just leave the country all together?

    • I think it depends whether the state insurance provides the “minimum” requirements and abides by the minimum standards for premium ratios.

      I would guess your state could provide BETTER, but not worse minimums.

  72. Hey, guess what? The USDA has prepared tips on turducken safety.

    No matter what happens, this is a great country we have here. 🙂

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: