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      I am unintersted in “hope.” Or as we called it in the Obama bullshit years, Hopium. Hope is not a plan. Hope is bullshit. Luck is real, but you don’t count on luck other than in the sense that the harder you work, and the more things you do, the more likely you are to […]
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The buck stops where?

129002246965365137


Joe Sudbay:

I just don’t think these folks get how, hmmm, how can I put this, how nonsensical it sounds to say, Obama really thinks the public option is “the best possible choice,” but he won’t fight for it. Maybe they think that messaging works. It doesn’t. Sounds weak. If he’s not going to fight for the “best possible choice,” what will he fight for? That’s the question I have.

Dan Riehl:

So, what will Obama fight for? Anything he knows he can win ahead of time, or something that won’t damage his image if he loses. That’s my take, any way. I’m not sure it says good things about his so-called leadership if he’s always going to put his own ambitions and image before anything else. But I do think that’s precisely what the left got with Obama.

Audacious? Well, in the mirror, perhaps. But when it comes to his leadership, not so much. And I think we can write bold and new off, as well.

Riehl is a wingnut but even a stopped clock finds an acorn once in a while.

We tried to tell people that Obama’s habit of voting “present” on anything remotely controversial was a warning sign, but did they listen?

No they did not.

So where does Obama stand on the public option?

“Definite maybe”


waffle


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101 Responses

  1. Actually, Myiq, I’ve stopped caring about health care “reform”. It’s a debacle. They need to take it off the table and start over some other time. It’s guaranteed no one will be happy with whatever they eventually pass.

    I’m more concerned about the banks. Today both Krugman and Denninger are writing about the state of banking. I”m afraid that we’re fast approaching a day when we go to the teller window to make a withdrawal and we’re given an IOU.

    • Agreed, Joanie. I’ve come to the point where I think talking about Obama’s health insurance reform is a waste of time. Those of us not drinking kool-aid know that Obama doesn’t care about the public option and will never fight for health care or any other liberal cause that is going to require him to turn his back on those who paid for his presidency and hold the key to his reelection bid. Democrats need to face the reality that Obama is a disappointment and call it a day. It will make the next three years easier if we expect failure rather than get our hopes up that Obama is anything close to what the Obots believed him to be last year.

      • He was supposed to be the face of reform. Yet he refused to lay down any markers early on. His failure allowed the tea baggers and conservatives to corner the high ground. The ensuing national “debate” has generated more heat than light. Nothing constructive can result from this. Obama doesn’t believe in anything, so he won’t fight for anything. They should just stick a fork in it; its done.

      • Agree, as well. No need to read the newspaper or look at news programs on tv, which I have not done in a long time.I have been pondering on socially conscious activities to do while this debacle passes. Any suggestions?

    • I wish I could stop caring – but the fact that I will be forced to pay for bad coverage can’t be ignored. And yes, I agree the banks pose a bigger crisis.

    • Haven’t stopped caring about health care reform actually, but always felt that the lame actions in re universal health care were a DISTRACTION from the real issues: the graff from TARP and the so-called stimulus that has seemed to benefit no one but a select few, the escalating prob with the devaluing of the dollar, and to me the most imp fact — the lost manufacturing jobs that Obama never had any intention of bring back or to stave the further loss of.

      sorry so wordy, but in Joanie’s succint words, stick a fork in it cause it’s done!

  2. The problem with Health care now is it is unsustainable from a cost perspective. Also, blogs are starting to point out problems in financial reform. Afghanistan is falling apart, although the right answer might be just to leave.

    That said, a lot of these three issues will be crystalized by end of year and the next election campaign will be starting up. That will be the time for report cards. The alligators are now fighting in the pond ane we minnows need to stand aside for now and collect informaiton. After the alligators are all tired out, we go after those that do not do what we want with primary fights.

    The only good news possible is the stimulus money was timed for the next election and unemployment should stabilize and housing might stabilize.

  3. http://www.last.fm/music/Toby+Keith/_/You+Ain't+Much+Fun+Since+I+Quit+Drinking

    continuing myiq2xu’s theme
    the it from the reformed kool-aid drinkers to backtrack!!!!!!!

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  4. “The White House is waiting for Congress to settle on a final health care bill, even though President Barack Obama has a clear preference in favor of at least one specific – the much-debated public option, advisers said.
    Obama, however, will not demand that legislation include a government-run insurance plan intended to drive down costs through competition with private insurers, they said.
    Instead, the White House will let Congress work out the details required to get something passed.” http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2010093799.html

    That “clear preference” is as clear as the proverbial mud.

  5. SORRY
    should read this is from the reformed kool-aid drinkers to backtrack.

  6. this is what I was trying to post. That will teach me to work all night and try and think in the AM.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  7. Good name calling – in absense of being able to explain yourself it gives tremendous credibility. Not.

  8. Since when has Obama been interested in a Public Option in Health Reform?

    His history shows that his interest in hospitals lies in the Pork he can get for himself (or his wife).

    On occasion, individuals once they become Prez, can change and work for the common good. But that’s rare.

  9. he can’t be bothered with presidentin.
    he.s too busy campaignin for his next job..
    king of the world

  10. If he can’t or will not fight for what is right,what exactly are the Democrats expecting from this wimp? Maybe you are gay,maybe a healthcare provider or even a soldier? If your President will not back you up, what is he there for? The Republicans are gonna come roaring back in 2010 and on thanks to the Koolaid. If thats the case, expect Obama to declare himself Republican in 2012 ala Spector. I can only hope for that change…..

    • The idea that Obama thinks about anything but his own mocha ass is laughable. This man has never stood up for any one or thing is his life…he’s not starting now. He’s there because he won’t
      rock the boat. We are suppose to be happy just that Obama is @ 1600 Pa Ave. That’s it. That’s your pony

  11. Well the “attack PUMA” is in full gear again at the daily putrid Kos. And the Confluence is mentioned as the source of all things that are racist and ugly about Pumas. They also go after Murphy, noquarter, and every other website that doesn’t worship at the alter of Obama. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/17/794310/-A-Clever-PUMA-HuffingtonPost-Promoting-a-Hate-Site-Fanatic

    • Well the “attack PUMA” is in full gear again…..

      That’s cause they got nothing else. You know obots like thinking they are smart. But, they aren’t

    • Who cares? DK is a joke anyway. I mean these are the people who less than a year ago were calling Bill Clinton a racist and accusing people of darkening a picture to score political points.

      • these are the people who two years ago spit and cursed when Rahm Emanuels name was mentioned. What happened when Obama chose him and said he was his best friend?…crickets

    • The author of that post is a gay misogynist who is neither a US citizen nor a US resident.

      He posts deranged rants against women he perceives to be racists, but never mentions Obama’s record on LGBT rights. He bashes alleged bigotry in the US but never mentions Britain’s horrible record of civil rights in their former colonies.

      His delusions include the belief that PumaPac is connected to some British group called Stormfront and that Cinie is really Brenda Lee.

      Like most mentally ill people he has no sense of humor or irony. He actually thinks RD’s sarcastic comment yesterday about cows exposing their udders was a serious defense of bestiality.

      Needless to say, he is one of the more prominent blogstalkers.

      • OMG, wonder who pounds him on the back to keep him breathing? You know he’s not bright enough to do it on his own.

      • Oh god, not that guy again? Lol Stormfront is a neo-Nazi skinhead group that’s tied to the fascist British National Party. Granted I know squat about PUMAPac (although he once referred to it as “my” party during an exchange), but I’m kind of guessing that has as much credibility as his other raving lunatic charges. Lol OTOH, his sexual fantasies involving Obama are kind of entertaining.

        • I mean “my” PAC. Apparently, unbeknownst to me, I own the PAC, please don’t tell anyone. 😉

      • Claims he’s gay, at any rate. Since nothing else he says is true, I prefer to think that the only thing I have in common with him is status as a carbon-based life form.

        The most informative part of that post, though, is the series of responses by blind-in-all-three-eyes cretins who saw “little or no sexism” directed at Hillary or Sarah Palin.

        • Yeah, honestly, he reminds me of a previous kos denizen who posted scary woman hating rants (that doesn’t narrow it down, you’re saying to yourself–I know, but this guy was extra specially, colorfully, memorably disturbed and had serial killer written all over him). That guy was definitely straight, and chances are it’s the same guy.

          • That describes at least 4-5 of the blogstalkers.

            BTW – is a guy still considered “straight” if he’s not gay but can’t perform with an actual living, breathing female?

          • I’d say a man who falls between those two categories is just plain unfortunate.

          • Heh

            Favreau and his friends make it pretty clear that they believe cardboard cut outs should count.

            Obotism is setting the bar low.

    • That’s all they’ve got? Calling anyone who doesn’t worship Obama a racist. Letting blogstalking gender bigots post on their site. The kids at Kos are so deluded at this point, I genuinely feel for them. Like David Koresh disciples, I want to save them from their mentally handicapped selves as they chant their racist racist mantra rocking back and forth. They cannot think for themselves. I pity them.

    • Why rant now (the kos poster)? Obama won. Calling people racists is so old. These kinds of off-the-wall posts make me laugh because bots have to be scared that BO isn’t going to make it through the 2010 election with Congress party majorities. If he doesn’t, you can blame him. For the country, he probably has about 6 more months, if that long, to do something brilliant before he goes down in flames. I gave up on him when he didn’t fight for single payer health insurance.

      Btw, I underscore the fact that people are wishing Hillary was in the WH.

    • it reminds me of a right wing website where they had no purpose but to attack dkos. They couldn’t very well spend their time defending bush. The sippy kup kidz at dkos can’t very well spend their time defending Obama can they?

  12. Obama only fights for Obama. Nothing else.

    Carolyn Kay
    MakeThemAccountable.com

  13. I saw a headline that said

    ” Obama says thev onus is on Afghans”

    ….that reminded me of another head line

    ‘Grab a Mop,’ Obama Tells Health Care Overhaul Critics ..

    So it’s fair to say you could combined the two, nicely

    Obama to Afghans : ” Grab a mop!”

  14. Thinking of spinless, Obama accompanied by Reid. What jellyfish.

  15. http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/10/19/october-19-1987-october-19-2009-deja-vu-all-over-again/#more-34982

    Well he did say he liked Reagan the best.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  16. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1930943,00.html?xid=rss-world

    It looks like Iran thinks backtrack should have dismantled some of Bushes programs. Maybe to other countries the buck does stop at the president’s desk

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  17. Huh?:

    Several well-known chain stores have halted sales of an “illegal alien” Halloween costume after complaints from immigrant-rights activists.

    The costume includes an orange jumpsuit similar to prison garb, with ILLEGAL ALIEN stamped across the chest, a “green card” and a space alien mask.

    • Lou Dobbs is designing Halloween costumes?

    • Yea, I noticed that. I was a bit embarrassed for the idiots that took it to be a slur of anything. It’s making fun. It’s Halloween. With tongue in cheek it’s about the aliens we should be worried about. Silly.

      Unless of course those immigrant-rights activists know something we don’t. 🙂

  18. If the Republicans regain control of just one House of Congress next fall, you know what’s going to happen? Investigations. Their take-home lesson from Nixon was that you can hamstring any prez with investigation.

    And if anyone starts investigating B0, it won’t be like Whitewater. It won’t be ten years and a billion dollars and nothing. It will be, how should I put it?, interesting.

    Hm.

    Or maybe, since B0’s a Republican himself, the lot of them will *really* start passing crap that will make the stimulus bill and health care deform look like child’s play.

    • Too bad the Democrats chose “bipartisanship” instead of “oversight” during the Bush years.

      • Yup, we all sort of knew the old Dem party was history in 2006 as soon as Nancy said no to any serious investigation or even oversight. The Dem party is dead. It just doesn’t know it yet.

        Just a reminder to everyone, if you see Dem party representatives, they’re zombies and they may try to eat your brain. Be careful out there.

        • Yeah. Really. As in “I’ll be bi, you be partisan.”

          I vividly remember Pelosi nixing any look at Republican ethics because it would be too unkind. Or something.

          Zombies indeed.

  19. Someone gets it:

    “It was the perception of many that the administration stayed on the sidelines of the summertime healthcare debate until the president, rightly so, addressed a joint session of Congress and solidified this as being a top priority.

    “But if you believe that the battle of public opinion was fought in town hall meetings this summer across this country, then you’ve also got to agree that the army of healthcare reform and their commanding general stayed in the barracks,” Massa added.

    That’s freshman Democratic Congresscritter Eric Massa from NY

    • I predict Eric Massa will soon be entering a reeducation camp. Then he’ll have that body snatchers expression that so many Dems now have. Wonder where they hide the pods.

  20. OT — but speaking of people really fighting for healthcare reform, I saw the most amazing show on PBS this weekend called “Body & Soul: Kathy & Diana.”

    These women have been fighting for healthcare rights for the disabled for over three decades, trying to get Medicare to provide benefits directly to disabled individuals and their caregivers, and were instrumental in lobbying to stop the ILL mental institution from being reopened. They also were the first disabled Americans to win a Human Rights Award. The recipients were Kathy, a 60+ yo woman who had severe cerebral palsy was wheelchair bound and had to use the assistance of a computer to communicate, and Diana, her caretaker for over 3 decades, who has Downs Syndrome (her story in itself is inspiring).

    If you get a chance to see this program, it is soooo worth it. It warmed my heart and inspired me.

    This makes me wonder … what if anything is Obama’s Admin doing for the rights for disabled Americans and their ongoing battle with Medicare? & how come this isn’t being discussed in the healthcare reform debate?

  21. BigotBasher is a bigot himself. He doesn’t consider women as part of the human race. When we decry the disgusting treatment of women by men under the principles of Islam, he accuses us of racism against brown complected men!
    Most of his pasted copied comments are out of context and never include the comments countering racist/sexist statements.

    It’s bizarre to me that even kos ( no fan of his, but still…) would give the whacko so much space.

    BigotBasher lives in the UK. Can’t speak to his sexuality.

  22. Well, speaking of items watched on tv this weekend. Did anyone see “Occupation” on BBC? If anyone can come away from that movie believing that we shouldn’t get out of the crazy wars, you’re of a different mind set than me.

  23. Heh:

    For Democrats determined to get a health care bill, Sen. Roland Burris is like the house guest who couldn’t be refused, won’t soon be leaving and poses a plausible threat of ruining holiday dinner. Suddenly, he can no longer be ignored.

    The Illinois Democrat, appointed by disgraced former Gov. Rod Blagojevich, says he’ll only vote for a bill to provide health care to millions more Americans as long as it allows the government to sell insurance in competition with private insurers.

    And he says he won’t compromise.

    “I would not support a bill that does not have a public option,” Burris, 72, said in a recent interview with The Associated Press. “That position will not change.”

    • Go Burris. Thank God he is not depending on insurance’s money to hang his future employment. See, short terms can be good for America.

      • I am glad that he is doing the right thing, but after his stint in the Senate, he will not have to worry about his personal insurance or retirement. If we could all get that gig.

    • Yep — I posted about that article last night two threads down.

      I like Burris attitude — my question — Could Burris be the knight in shinning armor re: the health bill? The 60th player becomes important.

  24. I’m shocked:

    CNN commentator paid by insurers

    That would be Alex Castellanos – the GOPer who said it was okay to call Hillary a bitch because it was an accurate description.

    • How ironic that bloggers need to provide disclosure for something as small as a free yogurt offered up to sample but corporate owned media can blithely pretend it has no agenda even as its bit players collect cash.

      • Just think of the undecided superdelegate Donna Brazile all through the primaries. What a phony chunk of crap that was.

        • Yeah, I emailed CNN and Brazille every week asking them to declare her as an Obama supporter.

  25. Projection: I can not believe the Obama press push this week end attacking Fox as not a news organization but a station with a political perspective!!

    This was said to CNN, MSNBC, NBC—-this is amazing projection. They have to have control of all the media.

  26. OT– Yankees lose!

  27. Since I don’t believe we’ll get a public option, I’m willing to go with the basic GOP idea of a catastrophic option instead. Anything beats the 1502 page bill that is BaucusCare.

    Public Option v Catastrophic Option

    Instead, it would seek to insure Americans only against costs that exceed a certain percentage of their income, while expecting them to pay for everyday medical expenditures out of their own pockets.

    Such a system would provide universal catastrophic health insurance, in other words, while creating a free market for non-catastrophic care. In the process, it would marry a central conservative insight — that we’ll never control spending so long as Americans are insulated from the true price of their medical care — to the admirable liberal premise that nobody should go bankrupt paying for life-saving treatment.

  28. Thebigotbasher fights tooth decay:

    Thebigotbasher fights tooth decay

  29. That photo of Obama introducing this thread is absolutely nauseatingly gross!!!!

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