I find myself in an unusual situation these days. As I watch the Great Astroturf War of 2009 between Kool-aid swilling progressives that are organized and partially funded by Obamacrat special interest groups and “angry mobs of unregistered self-lobbyists” that are organized and partially funded by the GOP and the Healthcare lobby, I am cheering for both sides to lose.
On one side you have the unprincipled members of a cult of personality advocating undemocratic ideas and corporatist-approved legislation and on the other side you have misguided people who think Obama is a socialist, liberalism is a communist plot and feminism is designed to get women to practice witchcraft, become lesbians and murder their children.
It’s like watching an NFL football game between the Kansas City Chiefs and the Denver Broncos. Both teams are divisional opponents of the Oakland Raiders (my team) so one minute I can chortle with glee seeing the Bronco QB twitching on the ground following a blindside hit from a 300lb defensive lineman and then the next moment be high-fiving my fellow Raider fans when the Chief’s wide receiver makes a leaping catch in the end zone but gets separated from the ball, mouthpiece and consciousness before his feet touch down due to a bone-crushing pop from a 250lb strong safety.
I don’t want to watch a race, I want to see a destruction derby. I want carnage, a high body count, a steel-cage death match. I want to see a duel in a closet with hand grenades. F**k ’em all and let Koresh sort ’em out!
/rant
Whew! Sorry about that, where was I? Oh, yeah – health care reform.
Obamacare is in deep doo-doo because the Republicans seem to have finally found their mojo again. If there is one thing those GOPers are good at it’s being against stuff. That’s okay with me, because Obamacare IS deep doo-doo. A big steaming pile of it.
Obamacare is better off dead. Kill it, start over and this time do it right.
Teh Precious needs health care reform as badly as we do, but he only needs something he can call reform – we need the real deal. If Obamacare 1.0 goes down in flames he’ll have to come up with a better plan of he’ll go down in flames with it.
That’s okay too. If the current version of Obamacare (aka: The Health Insurance Industry Protection Act) passes it won’t start to kick in until 2013 so by the time people realize how bad it is we’ll be looking at another GOP administration. That pushes real health care reform off another decade or more (Hillarycare was killed in 1993 – 16 years ago.)
We need single payer – nothing less will do.
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The Confluence 
Love it. Never in my 74 years ..over 50 of those years as a democrat did I think I would be called astro-turf..or a racist redneck. Know what….I like it.
I’m missing something here:
Was this caller for or against single payer?
This guy doesn’t realize that any time he makes a public appearance, there is some personal risk involved? Wow, naive.
The reality I suspect is that he may have too much conscience (I know, I know) to try and defend something that is indefensible.
If this teaparty crap kills the legislation so they have to start all over again, I’m all for it.
The first problem is you don’t go out there without having read the bill, they did wave their fingers at the home owners for not reading their closing documents … right. At the very least they should have a flyer with the key points, I would love to see that my self and lastly they should explain what a Living Will (Power of Attorney for Health Care) is and give out a sample and explain NO ONE IS MANDATED TO HAVE ONE! I have had one for over TWO DECADES and I am still here crocheting and complaining. 😉
I’ve been in a “persistent vegetative state” longer than that.
me 2 and I like it like that. perfect post to reflect what’s happening on the ground all over the country.
Kill it and start over!
me too.. mostly complaining.
I just woke up, haven’t called anyone in D.C. and my congressperson has a thingie, you fill out to weed out the phony folks that don’t live in the district. They ask for real names, address and zip codes and e-mails. When I called I said I supported HR 676 Single Payer, they only allow you about 60 seconds and off they go to the next call.
Did ya hear about the FISHY site at the White House…(gosh, some juvenile must have thought up the name) where you REPORT miss information out there on the internet or via E-MAIL? Yup, they want report your neighbors or anyone else.
They would be better off running ads with what is in the plan, and explaining what a Living Will is to those that think it is a form to knock your grannie off. I have one, and still HERE…complaining. 😉
I’ve been turning in the blogstalkers
Woman Voter, “… and my congressperson has a thingie, you fill out to weed out the phony folks that don’t live in the district….”
—————
That would have been a handy “thingy” to have at the caucuses! I wonder why nobody thought of it then?
I sent FISHY a link to the Declaration of Independence, and told flag.gov that many suspicious bloggers were using this link to spread and foment angry dissent against Obama.
LMAO! How dare “those people” think they have the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Like it’s in the Constitution or something?
I just sent them a link to an old Obama video talking about single payer and said this guy was spreading misinformation.
Haaaa! You guys are on fire today!!
😆
Hysterical!
LMAO! Ooooo, you are good.
Go, go, go girl!
I want to mail links, too, but am concerned about doing so on my home or work computer. Am thinking about the library instead.
Anyone else with thoughts on this?
I think I will also change my screen name in the future because I could be identified/targeted due to my profession.
It’s strange to feel so paranoid in the good old USA, but now that we’re all so united by the great President Unity, things have gotten downright scary.
What a bunch of weenies.
“Put The Piggy In Its Place” HR 676 Single Payer, Everyone In, Nobody Out, It’s All American, just like your gran’s Medicare!
I love this, “the Great Astroturf War of 2009” Yes, let them fight to the death (of their plans) and then perhaps single payer can have a chance.
Pennywise is my secret scary hero.
“Obamacare is in deep doo-doo because the Republicans seem to have finally found their mojo again.”
Actually I’ve come to discover that Republicans don’t really have any mojo of their own. Democrats just hand them ideas. For example, Dems call people bitter small towners and Republicans start ranting about elitist liberals.
Perfect. And the accompanying picture could not be better.
no bias here.hope they both fail.
God, yes! “cheering for both sides to lose. ” Let it be so! This is exactly how I feel. I DON’T WANT OBAMA_CARE! No, no, no!
Exactly. If either side wins, we all lose.
Kill it and start over.
I too am very practical in this matter, myiq. I have no love for extreme wingers. But I also want Obama and the bloodsucking-leech-in-a-unicorn-costume he rode into the healthcare issue on to go down in flames.
As Somerby said today:
“On which planet do they breed? They arrive here in what sort of spaceship?”
He was talking about Chris Cilizza(sp) and his ilk, but I think the term applies to everyone involved in this whole healthcare-for-the-insurance-industry fiasco.
Too bad the media doesn’t want single payer because all those blo-dried cable news anchors and anchorettes would be talking it up 24/7.
If Obama were really for it, his MSNBC chorus of shills would be touting its benefits.
that’s for sure.
exactly …it’s kabuki. We are supposed to pretend there’s a difference in what each side in DC want , but there isn’t Both sides want more $$ for insurances companies and themselves . The anger out here is REAL…the Punch and Judy puppet show in DC, is not . imo
Exactly what everybody predicted is happening. They’re overplaying their hand and counting on playing the “most americans are nazis, are you?l card a second time.
Axelrod gets repetitive after a while.
Here we go: apparently using clown imagery is also rac*st…
Obama as The Joker: Racial Fear’s Ugly Face
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/05/AR2009080503876.html
How do they explain that the same image of The Joker was used to depict “W” in Vanity Fair? These talking point robots are every bit as compulsive and predictable as the wingers ever were.
Relieved (but disgusted) to be an observer watching the idiocy on both sides.
I know … I was really baffled by that one. Black people can’t be clowns?
I get that the image is creepy, but how is it racist?
I think they were trying to remind people, and emphasize that Barack is half white. 🙂
I think it is racist that they make Obama be black everytime he is on television! They never made any of the white Presidents be black!
This is all snark by the way.
That poster is racist in the same way the phrase “Fairy Tale” is when uttered by a Clinton.
If I had done that poster, instead of “Socialist” it would have been “Joke”. As in “Obama is a joke of a Democrat”
google gave me this…
http://deceiver.com/2009/08/04/its-really-wrong-to-depict-a-politician-as-the-joker/
several pols depicted as the Joker.
ugh.
The comments on that link further confirm that Ozombies are no tlike other Zombies, they are blindly led stiffs but they have no interest in brains whatsover.
Ron, while I’ve got ya….just wanted to say how much I enjoyed the vid of your meeting the Clintons. (How exciting was THAT, eh?!) Also, you are too cute… and quite witty! 🙂
Wow, thanks. ~blushing~
It was definitely one of the biggest thrills in my life.
Mr. Kenicott puts 2 and 2 together and gets 5. He admits that Brand Dubya was also portrayed as the Joker, but nevertheless concludes that portraying Brand Obama as the Joker is r@ci$t.
Kenicott tortures the facts until they tell him what he wants to hear. Cheney would be proud.
Kenicott reminds me of those Trek fans who insist that Kirk and Spock are gay lovers (NTTAWWT), even though the late Gene Roddenberry himself said (in the novelization of the first Star Trek movie) that they aren’t. 😆
Excellent post…the sport analogy is spot on . I think we will get single payer, but only after every trillion is stolen and there’s no more borrowed dough to be had.
In this round, I’m afraid the insurance companies will still be there this fall with perhaps have even more of a lock down on our lives and thier profits.
The only real fight going on is between two factions of the political class , called the GOP and the Dems, who are fighting over which one gets to be the Upper Crust’s enforcer /water boy. If the GOP is against this fleecing of the public it’s because this time they aren’t handling the sheers . imo
I n’th that sentiment. I wasn’t sure which number we were up to in approving the sentiment so I thought I’d go all variable on you.
Also, can we herd them all in an arena to fight it out, but secretly the arena is a space ship that we then launch. I can dream can’t I.
Reposted from previous thread…
I think that the only real “benefit” to the plan is a legislative win for Teh 0ne.
I am afraid that in all the acrimonious back and forth a significant portion of voters are going to conlude (accurately) that they are all a bunch of liars, and that they will also conclude (inaccurately) that universal health care is an impossible dream.
Bingo!
well put. Universal health Care was sent from the room without supper, but the media will do all it can to tar UHC with the mess . I sometimes think the words ” public option” is only included in order to spin it as a slur against UHC ….when of course it doesn’t work
I really dislike the “liberals are all closet socialists” meme as well, but I must admit that O and this congress are stupidly playing right into that.
There is a bunch of crap in that bill, from mandatory end-of-life counseling to executive-branch-controlled health czars with fuzzy powers, and other details, that alarmed the public. And it did not need to be in there. Maybe the public overreacts, and maybe the Repubs take that and run with it, but WHO could not have seen that coming if you put murky “big brother-ish” provisions in the bill in that manner? And to bury that in a 1000 page bill that no one ever bothered to explain before they tried to shove it through? On the heels of TARP, with a public who already felt distrustful and lied to? DAMN STRAIGHT people got paranoid, and it wasn’t just wingers.
For future reference for UHC or even public option advocates: Want healthcare reform passed in this country? Do a simple, straightforward, transparent bill. And make damn sure that you can get up and explain it thoroughly, simply, and adequately – the actual BILL not the general sentiment. Because despite the fact that a majority want UHC in theory, they may not necessarily support just any version of it. You have to take into account the American psyche, and we are not, in very deep and culturally-rooted ways, inclined to be collectivists. We just aren’t. We will do it – with trepidation and caution, if given very clear govt limits, and solid enough “public good” reasons, but it is not the fundamental nature of our culture. And you cannot get large-scale things done without taking that into account. You are dreaming if you think you can ignore that dynamic.
!000 pages? That’s almost twice the count of the “Hillary Care” bill.
My understanding is it was that long because it contained sops for the insurance industry but the Harry and Louised it anyway. Probably because it had too mush oversight over things like denying claims to keep a buck.
They need to do more than explain it – they need to SELL it.
They need to overcome the other side’s misinformation and convince people it’s the right plan.
Some of the people the need to convince are the among the ones they are currently calling an angry mob. Name-calling is not a good sales technique.
Yep. Instead of convincing, they went all cocky and peremptory on the public, and you do not DO that to the public in this environment. They not only incited the wingers, they incited great fear even in middle-of-the-roaders who WANT reform and universal coverage.
And yes, I am saying the DEMOCRATS incited that fear in non-winger folks, with their secrecy, buried provisions, and haste. All the GOP is doing is stoking it.
Spammy grabbed me and I think he quit smoking. The cigarette bribes aren’t working.
He’s moved on to more hard core vices. Try a good bottle of scotch.
HR 676 Sponsors need to start saying, scrap the Obama plan and start over.
The current Dem plan is worse than doing nothing.
There aren’t enough honest Democrats legislators to do that, most of them are Obamacrats, firmly in the pockets of Wall street and Big insurance.
Tom Tomorrow Obama smackdown.
A clear and compelling vision: Hope for Eventual Change
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/08/04/tomo/index.html
I saw that at Bartcop (one of the few times I visit that place anymore) and was amazed because he is so far up Obama’s butt.
I was VERY disappointed in him…any criticism of Obama he had during the primaries seemed to completely dissipate once the fix was in.
correction: not “seemed to”….DID.
Bartcop…I really miss him. He kept me sane during the 90’s and much of Bush’s 8 years . It’s amazing how he turned. Back in the day, he could smell a phony a mile off. Now he’s bobbing in the kool aid jug .Sad .
Something else that isn’t getting much coverage is that this bill takes away coverage for contraception and abortion. Many women who currently have health care, have these services covered. Obamacare puts congress in charge of reproductive care in ways we’ve never seen before.
Oh, not Congress. His plan calls for a five-member unelected board appointed by the executive branch to oversee healthcare rules. Congress would be able to overrule the annual “recommendations”, if they do so within 30 days of receiving them. But if so they must reject the entire package, they cannot alter it or reject only parts.
Sorry, but that is a MASSIVE executive power-grab, and I don’t want that kind of future power in the hands of an Obama or a Cheney or a Pawlenty.
Kill this bill. NOW. By whatever means necessary.
WMCB, where have you read the bill (or the excerpts you mention)? I haven’t found it online yet.
I also find these exec power grabs very disturbing, especially when it comes to medical care.
I thought B0 was going to be President Transparent, but it appears he is just Big Brother….
It’s online if you google HR3200. I can’t remember what section it was in, though. There have been a few editorials discussing it as well.
Thanks.
OMG, I could have done without the pic of Pennywise.
Look at this from Ezra Klein:
Washington, DC: You mentioned the other day in a very thoughtful post that some “rowdy protesters” get media attention, and others (like single payer advocates) do not. What do you think accounts for this discrepancy? Do you think the media is so careful not to seem elitist by criticizing working-class, old, angry whites?
Ezra Klein: Hard to say. I think that the conservative protesters map onto a conflict that the media wants to cover, while the single-payer protesters don’t. To say that more clearly, the conservative protesters are a visual manifestation of something that might happen in this story: Conservatives kill health-care reform. The single-payer protesters don’t really connect to a larger story, at least not as far as congressional and political reporters are concerned.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/08/03/DI2009080301949.html
Now if I were cynical, I might think the Dems were playing up the tea bag crowd to drown out the lefty opposition to Obama-Care.
Oh, I firmly believe that, Masslib. It will be very convenient in the end. The Dems get to wash their hands of their intentional bungling and say those mean old Republicans wouldn’t let us do it, (despite their massive majority).
Thought exactly the same thing when I read Young Ezra.
Sheesh.
go vote plz
they will give results tonight
Hillary is ahead
cnn.com/reportcard
healthcare failing
We first heard from the birthers, with their fake “birth certificate” in hand and with their fake outrage. These are the same under tones that you saw from Republicans during the confirmation hearings for Sonia Sotomayor, “you are not like us” or “you are too different”, “you are not main stream”. And then they act surprised when people do not vote with them, they are lost, no core beliefs, too bad.
In my opinion the Republican Party has been taken over the most extreme religious right (people who love to push their beliefs on others while at the same time trying to take away their rights) and that’s who they need to focus on if they real want to win. Good Luck, because as they said in WACO, “We Ain’t Coming Out”.
It’s funny we hear Republicans say that they do not want “faceless bureaucrats” making medical decisions but they have no problem with “private sector” “faceless bureaucrats” daily declining medical coverage and financially ruining good hard working people. And who says that the “private sector” is always right, do we forget failures like Long-Term Capital, WorldCom, Global Crossing, Enron, Tyco, AIG and Lehman Brothers. Of course the federal government will destroy heathcare by getting involved, Oh but wait our military men and women and the Senate and Congress get the best heathcare in the world, and oh, that’s right, its run by our federal government. I can understand why some may think that the federal government will fail, if you look at the past eight years as a current history, with failures like Katrina and the Walter Reed Scandal, but the facts is they can and if we support them they will succeed.
If you have a point, either you didn’t make it or I missed it.
Shoot – my Oregon rep is doing “telephone town halls”. (senators have not scheduled any of yet.)
Disappointing…… I was all set to show up with my HR676 sign, and to demand transparency regarding the insurance industry’s potential gains with obamacare.
Seems like a wimp-out to me – is this a new strategy to avoid the “mobs” or has this format been used in the past?
http://blumenauer.house.gov/
Heh – from Hot Air:
That’s good, and the truth hurts. If it’s only crazy wingers, none of those people vote for Dems anyway, so why not just pass the bill?
Because it’s not just wingers, and they damn well know it.
I just finished reading all of this, so I caught the Hot Air comment also. Pretty good.
I have realized all along the the GOP reasons against Obamacare are the ‘wrong’ reasons (It is NOT socialist – more like fascist), but, right now, I don’t care because I hope it helps this whole mess go down the drain. Obama does not care about uninsured people. This is his signature program. It is his ego that is on the line.
To talk about how bad things are is beside the point. Most people do not disagree that things are bad. We should not pass a piece of junk just to do something. (It is probably brought to you by the same people who wrote Medicare Part D.)
btw, I think that MIQ has been making some subtle but significant points about what is going on in the battle, such as the idea of conflating opposition with wingers.
The idea of insulting people who disagree, the very ones you need to win over, is what they did during the Primary. That is why we are bitter knitters.
Another HotAir link (a winger site but funny)
Say, Isn’t this astroturfing?
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/06/say-isnt-this-astroturfing/
To quote HB…
“Why Are You Forcing This Healthcare Bill Through In 3-4 Weeks When YOU Took SIX MONTHS TO PICK A DOG?”
That”s hysterical!
Good rant. I don’t think the Fraud wants or cares about Health Care, he just wants something passed with that name on it, so he can feel he has one-upped something on Hillary Clinton. Passing on something she ‘failed to pass’.
If we really wanted to help the uninsured of America, he would have given the $2,500 credit to buy Health Insurance that was the same as the health care the folks in Congress get, just like he said in the primaries.
More smoke and BS from the pretender.
As a Raider fan myself, I really enjoyed your analogy of the Broncos v. Chiefs game. My in-laws are in the Bay Area (lived there 10 years myself), but now I’m up here behind the redwood curtain in Eureka. would be fun to have a Bay Area meetup!
I also concur with your assessment of ‘Obamacare,’ whatever the h*ll that might be. Better to pass nothing than any of the crap coming from ANY of the committes. Unless, of course, the heavens open up and HR 676 is passed! SINGLE PAYER OR BUST! (and it will be bust, too, for us, since we’re down a full-time job with benefits, and can’t afford COBRA even WITH the subsidy.
But it’s good to know that our tax money is being spent to let folks who (think) they can afford it to buy a new car, at the same time taking affordable used cars off the market. Hope our car doesn’t crap out, or we’re REALLY screwed!
In a previous post by RD she was saying the DSCC had called soliciting donations and she gave the guy an earful. I don’t know if my Idea is a stroke of genius or a brain f@rt, but why don’t we organize and respond with an offer to pledge a donation to the DSCC contingent on the DEMs passing a single payer medicare bill for all? If everyone did this it might make an effect…”Money Talks” you know what walks. If 76% of americans pledged for this maybe WE could buy the vote this time.
Mass posts at Corrente: Per Business Week, the Health Insurers Have Already WON (!!!!!!!)
Well, Wall Street has already sent their stocks up. And we the people will be mandated to let the parasites feast on us.
If the Dems actually mess up as badly as this aritcle says, the National Week of Deregistration from the Dem Party is a MUST.