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Mobs of old ladies?

The above video is a DNC web ad.  Contrast the language of the narrator with the images you see.  The “mob” you hear described appears to be mostly women, many of them with gray hair.  There are many people carrying signs, but I didn’t see any torches or pitchforks.  I also didn’t see any party labels on anyone.

Back in 1996 Newt Gingrich issued his infamous GOPAC memo wherein he stated, “Language is listed as a key mechanism of control used by a majority party.”  He gave his acolytes a list of positive words to describe themselves and negative words to use against Democrats.  The negative words included:

bizarre – cheat – coercion – corrupt – decay

destroy – greed – hypocrisy – intolerant – pathetic

radical – selfish – sick – threaten – traitors

When you read or hear descriptions of these protesters, pay attention to the nouns, adjectives and adverbs being used.

Among the two or three “mobsters” you can hear clearly in the video are a short clip of Rush Lamebaugh saying “I hope he fails” and the lady in the red top talking some nonsense about Obama’s birth certificate.  Rush’s comment was made months ago, but the woman did her thing more recently.

Remember when I asked why the birthers were suddenly in the news? It appears we have the answer.  Obamanation wants to conflate opposition to The Precious with birtherism, much the same way they have done with racism.  Actually it’s more of an extension of the race card strategy, because they are trying to tie birtherism to racism too.

Steve Benen:

The question now is whether Dem can get the GOP to “own” these mobs, as a top operative put it to me. This would be a twofer: It would define the GOP as desperate, angry and irrationally obstructionist, but it would also define whatever public opposition there is to Obama’s agenda as merely an illusion manufactured by the GOP and special interests.

Remember when Hillary supporters (that’s us) were bitter, clingy racists?  And then later when Sarah Palin was hosting cross burnings at GOP campaign rallies?

From Peter Daou:

The netroots, excited and energized by the prospect of an Obama presidency, are disillusioned. The administration’s Bush-affirming decisions on secrecy, civil liberties, torture, gay rights, etc. have alienated a good number of influential bloggers and progressive activists. These are the elite opinion-makers on the left, and their voices have been perennially marginalized (and their impact underestimated) by Democrats.

As Democrats fight for a signature issue, a serious strategic blunder has left them scrambling to catch up with their opponents. The White House should have laid out clear, unwavering objectives, a solid plan, rather than leave the health debate to meander through Congress. That vacuum has enabled the proponents of the status quo to marshal their forces.

Perhaps resorting to campaign tactics will turn the tide, I certainly hope so, but it bears acknowledging that the landscape has changed.

As we saw last year “campaign tactics” for Obama include demonizing opponents and ginning up fauxrages to mobilize the Failbots.  It’s all about winning, rather than governing.  That is very reminiscent of this:

“What you’ve got is everything–and I mean everything–being run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis.”

Can you say “Bush III?”

Meanwhile, we get this from Greg Sargent:

When last we checked in on “centrist” Senator Ben Nelson, he was busy chastising a man for appearing in a lefty group’s ad attacking him for slow-walking health care reform.

Now his opposition to letting lefty groups exercise their Democratic right to free speech has taken a new turn: He’s claiming that Obama confided in a meeting with Dem Senators yesterday that that he agrees with the Senator, and wants the “attacks” to stop.

Check out this nugget buried in today’s Times piece on the meeting:

Mr. Nelson, a focus of such advertising, said he was glad to hear Mr. Obama denounce the tactic and affirm that Democrats were all on the same team.

The president “said that it was wrong for Democrats to be running ads against Democrats,” Mr. Nelson said. But the senator said he did not know if the advertisements would stop.

IOW – Left or right, if you disagree with Obama you should STFU (and drink the Kool-aid)

These “mobs” are groups of Americans who are upset at what is happening and they are giving their congressional representatives an earful about it.  A few weeks ago Left Blogistan was in agreement that yelling at a cop is not a crime.  How is yelling at an elected official any different?

I’m gonna let WMCB have the last word here:

Claims of astroturfing make me yawn. I have been on mailing lists from both sides of the aisle for ages, because I like to keep abreast of what is going on, whether I agree or not. So I get mail from BOTH sets of astroturfers, and watch the trends.

Guess what? The Ogressives and their well-funded bloggers and groups organize to send people out to yell about what they want. And Repub groups organize to send people out to yell about what they want. Whooda thunkit?

Over the past 2 years, the Democrats have done more of it, as far as activism goes. Now the Repubs are doing a good job of it too. And despite claims of this or that group “manufacturing” this, the actual folks going out are sincere and do have complaints and legitimate questionsregardless of who alerted them to the townhall or event. From what I’ve seen, the Dems at those events have done a piss-poor job of answering those voters, or explaining this godawful plan to them.

The Democrats need a good, understandable health care plan that they unite behind and can EXPLAIN and SELL to the people. They do not have that, they have a piece of garbage. And I’m going to go all constitutional radical here and suggest that if the Dems plan is something that the people in a particular district do not want, their representative should not vote for it, even if it’s a plan that I like, or that the rep likes.

It’s called representative government for a reason. Representatives are SUPPOSED to represent the will of the people of their particular district, not the will of their party, or the will of some overarching ideology. I take real issue with the idea that any Representative is supposed to regularly vote for things that the voters of his/her district do not want.

I believe in representative govt, period. Want the the more conservative Dems to vote for more liberal policies? Then the party needs to get out there and convince THE PEOPLE in that district that it’s a good thing, so that they then support it and want their Rep to vote for it. That’s how it’s done, not the other way around.


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254 Responses

    • Wow. I think you’ve nailed it.

      It’s all political now, using campaign tactics, and demonizing even Democrats who don’t like the Obamacare plan.

      He doesn’t give a fig about healthcare for Americans—–he already sold out to his corporate supporters.

      He cares about WINNING, whatever it takes, with Axelrod ginning up false images of these protestors, and the DNC making it worse.

      Just like the primaries.

      For now, I’m speechless, myiq.

      But not surprised.

    • Thanks for reposting, myiq. The guy in that video so pissed at Steny Hoyer is a Democrat. I’m going to bring up something I said in the lat thread:

      I don’t at all deny that some bad wingnut groups are leeching onto and seeing an advantage in driving these protests. Of course they are. Just as some very bizarre and radical groups that were everything from extreme communists to batshit anarchist/libertarians latched onto the anti-war protests and tried to further their agendas.

      But that sort of no-holds-barred activist element did not negate that there was a very real, broad-based opposition to the war among very normal middle-of-the-road people. It didn’t mean that people like Code Pink had somehow “manufactured” all that anger. They took advantage of it, but no, they did not create it.

      When I was protesting many of the Bush policies, as a centrist Democrat one of the things that frustrated me was the right-wings characterization of ME as part and parcel of the most moonbatty of the moonbats, the la-la crazies and America-haters that yes, DO exist in this country. It’s always an easy out to find the fringy-est of the fringe, and pronounce all who protest as of the same mindset as “those crazy people”.

      This townhall thing is no different. And people are not as stupid as the media thinks. They talk to their neighbors, their families, their coworkers, people they personally KNOW who have protested. And they are asking, “Did you go to that thing because you were “astro-turfed?” “Um, no, Bob, I went because I think the bill sucks, and the hurry to pass it unread and unfunded is alarming me.”

      • The clips we see are always short and focus on one or two people – typically the loudest/craziest ones there.

        But most of those people are not crazy.

        (I kinda have a problem with the idea that anyone we don’t agree with is stupid, ignorant and/or crazy – it’s anti-democratic)

        • This ad reminds me of an ad I saw years ago by the Christian Coalition. It taped the NY Gay Pride Weekend, and found every campy queen and outlandish example of gay culture it could film and then flashed black and white titles across the screen:


          I can’t believe the “Dem Party” has come to this…

          • I remember those type of ads. Yes, because we all know that teh gay teachers go to work in full drag and regularly hop up to do a bump and grind on the desk.

          • FOX News loves to find left-wing nutballs and put them on television.

      • I can attest to the false accusations of Lloyd Doggett whining about protestors.

        Austin is the bluest of the blue cities in Texas. Doggett’s protestors were not bused-in Republicans. They were Democrats, and angry ones. Piss off Austin Democrats, and Texas will never go blue, as the Dems are hoping.

        Stoyer, in this video, is patronizing the very Democrats he needs to convince, with some babbling about the Erie Canal.

        They will not forget in 2010.

    • (h/t to annabelle p at Peacocks and Lilies)

  1. Dumb ad. Won’t work. Daou is right that the landscape has changed. And, it’s not just that Obama dropped the ball on healthcare, which he totally did, but the economy hasn’t improved and people aren’t feeling all hopey-changey anymore, they are looking for hope in solutions, not rhetoric and 1000 page bills that no one is even trying to explain to them.

    • New employment numbers are supposed to come out tomorrow, possibly putting unemployment over 10%…

  2. i don’t like this health bill and i haven;t even read it,
    just like bo and congress
    rush it through read it later lol.
    i say read it understand it first.

  3. I hate this new version of the Democratic Party. I’m glad I left and I’m not “unaffiliated.” This is pure Axelrod propaganda. Notice that they use the “they lost” reference again? They must have focus-grouped that language, because they repeat it a lot, along with “inherited.” It’s pure hypocrisy and manipulation. They must be so proud: they have openly adopted the worst of the right wing tactics that were used against the Dems for years. This is the “End Justifies the Means” version of the Dem Party, and they disgust me. Instead of taking a principled stand for health care that is based on a clear strategy and accurate figures, they resort to selling this piece of crap by diminishing any critics with broad-based smears. Congratulations, you have become the enemy. Count me out.

    • p.s. the ultimate irony is that this is coming from Axelrod, Rahm and Obama, all masters of thug tactics and mob manipulation. We know, more than most, that people were bussed into caucus sites, and polling places to bully and intimidate. Now, they are SHOCKED! SHOCKED! that there might be plants in these meetings. They are also grossly underestimating the anger out here, and it these kinds of character assassinations will only fuel a backlash.

    • I agree. These disruptors could be the same people Axelrod sent into the caucuses.

  4. Correction: I AM unaffiliated. I’m having consistent brain burps today, misspelling, abbreviating words. Strange how those neurons get rebellious at times.

  5. the failbots are sinister…and predictable.

  6. Fauxrage is right. The birther outrage has definitely had the look of a set up these past few weeks. Do people like Dobbs and Taitz realize that.

    • maybe ~ but the Axelrovians may not be realizing it but its kinda gaining traction…. I actually heard people discussing it at lunch here in SWVA and they were making the point that its not the birth certificate so much but the lack of transparency….and damned if anyone can explain why any elected official would fight revealing their BC and spend lots of money doing so in this economy…. it just looks really sneaky.

      • Bob Somerby points out in today’s post that there were crazy right-wing rumors about the Clintons back in the nineties.

        The GOP still managed to grab Congress and beat Gore in 2000 (but they couldn’t beat the Big Dawg)

      • I’m hearing the same. I think their ridicule of the birthers is backfiring, no matter how deserved that ridicule is. Because people are looking because of the news stories, and getting curious and saying, “Okay, yeah, those loons are crazy, and Obama is a citizen. But gee, isn’t it funny how much of his early life has no record, and how thoroughly he has hidden so much of that. Any actual living people who knew this guy in grade school, in high school, in college? Strange…..”

        • Now that you mention it…it is pretty strange.

          During the primaries I was amazed that a COMMUNITY ORGANIZER could not pull 20 people, or 10 people or 2 people whose lives he made better and put them in an ad talking about him favorably.

        • Yes; all of that makes it look that even though he is a native-born US citizen, he’s hiding something else, and I find myself wondering what that something else is.

          • That’s exactly what Lou Dobbs said, Ivory Bill. He NEVER said Obama wasn’t a citizen. In fact, he said he WAS, but that something was “fishy.”

            They’ve twisted what he said, and demonized him, for their own purposes.

            Look out…..you may be next.

        • you got that right. Everything is such a huge secret, and if you inquire, you must be a r@cist. We just took my grandson to register for school, and we needed his birth certificate.

        • Yeah, by all accounts it looks like BO came from an immaculate birth and is also a man without a history.

          But really, instead of spending over 1M fighting off the BC court challenges, why not pony up the $20 for a copy of the document in question?

          In any case, I’ll even grant that BO was born in the US. But what about the complicated scenario about his father not being a US citizen when BO was born, and that his mother was under age at the time — all of which would have disqualified BO from being considered officially a natural born US citizen?

          • It wasn’t an immaculate birth. In fact, he wasn’t born at all – that’s
            why he doesn’t have a birth certificate. He sprang fully-formed from the forehead of Zeus, just like Athena. 😉

  7. Wow, myiq2xu-I really do think you’re the best there is at parsing!

  8. I pissed off an Obot yesterday who was whining about the astroturfing. I went all wide-eyed and said, “You mean…you mean….they are community organizing??? How horrible! What utterly disgusting tactics! Quick, pass a law saying only Chicago Democrats are allowed to read Alinsky!”

    Disagree with the Repubs on policy all you want. But this panty-twisting faux noble outrage over tactics is the saddest and funniest thing I’ve seen come down the political pike in years. The Democrats currently have a major case of can-dish-it-out-but-can’t-take-it-itis.

    • Truer words have never been spoken. 😉

      • He taught his opponents to use twitter and facebook to their advantage – but now he can’t figure out how to get around it.

    • What is worse is that there is clearly an orchestrated “here’s how we respond” propaganda campaign to dismiss and diminish all the opposing voices, just as they used rac*st as a STFU tactic. Seeing Barbara Boxer online using the same language that others are spouting about “well-dressed protesters who were obviously brought in,” is just condescending and dumb.

    • I think we should all strive to piss off at least one Obot a day. 🙂

  9. Myiq, did you see this? GOP response to that ad … “Hah ha!”


  10. So this is a typical example of the meme..like the incredible blob, growing and growing.

    @janehamsher: Freshman Democratic lawmaker ‘physically assaulted at a local event’ by right-wing activists. http://bit.ly/2bprAB

    • And here’s Markos. Not sure how he’s going about recruiting a birther polling sample for research.

      @markosm: Polling 1,100 birthers this wk. 1st 1/2 complete. Top news sources: local, Rush & Fox News. 80% GOP. 90% white. 75% Southern

      • And here’s Joan piling on just now.. If you read her linked article, she has to mention H!tler when she talks about Palin. What is going on??

        @joanwalsh Should Orly Taitz replace Paula Abdul? My choice: Peggy Noonan! http://tr.im/vCS5

        • These aren’t Democrats standing FOR anything. They are simply masters of distraction. They don’t know what they stand for. Democrats used to know what they stood for. These days, let’s see. There’s pro-choice, anti-church. What else do Obama progressives stand for. For that matter, what does any staunch liberal Democrat stand for these days. On foreign policy, on economic policy, as well as social policy. I wish someone would make a list. Because as an exiled Democrat, I can’t see through the fog and noise anymore. I’d rather think for myself.

        • I saw Joan and some other fauxgressive woman on with Matthews talking about how Palin is a r@cist magnet and could be seen as the chief r@cist of the country. They didn’t mention Hitler for the brief time I watched, but I figured that was coming up soon.

          There’s one and only one reason for doing all this anti Palin stuff right now, it’s done on purpose and coordinated from Axelrove to try to reduce the impact of the series of talks and events she’s lining up now. They’re afraid. They’re afraid that right when Obama is taking a dive in the polls and the Obamacare is floundering that Palin will show up and get lots of press and make people realize that soon they will have a choice. If what they’re doing works, then the press will not pay attention to her. We’ll see.

      • Not sure how he’s going about recruiting a birther polling sample for researc
        I’d wager a lot of money he’s not. Just making it up. Not that birthers aren’t batsh!it crazy. But when you think about it, they’re no crazier than Obots thinking the Clinton’s were r@cist. Both groups are equally nuts.

    • My Repub rep chose SAFETY and took calls on the radio today.
      No Town Halls for him – LOL

  11. if they had did their jobs and read the bill maybe they would not look so stupid and have to use the phony outrage when questioned about it. That comment about the Erie Canal was uncalled for and just showed how little he thinks of the people he is supposed to represent.
    people in this country are hurting and have been on a downward slide for a while now.
    Democrats lied and cheated to get their party in office and can not or will not do the job they were paid to do.
    Talking down to people when they ask real questions does not help the problem.
    Lack of jobs and health care and wondering if you have a future are problems and deserve answers from elected officials.
    I left the democratic party because it no longer represented the ideals I believe and made me ashamed to be called a democrat by the way they treat good hard working people.




    National Republicans turned the tables on their political counterparts Wednesday by redirecting angry telephone calls coming into their switchboard to the Democratic National Committee.

    The DNC released a Web video early in the morning accusing the GOP of inciting mob activity at town hall meetings.

    At the end of the video, the DNC instructs people to call the Republican National Committee to express outrage. Callers who dial the RNC’s main number to voice their concern about the DNC’s charges are told to press 1, which sends them to the DNC’s main switchboard.

    • I love it!!!

    • I had that exact response. “I’m rubber, you’re glue. Whatever callers you send will redirect from me back to you.”

      That was pretty slick.

    • You know sometimes they pull one out of their @RSE that’s pretty funny.

    • Brilliant!

    • GOP Chair Michael Steele was just on TV and said yes, they did that, and he approved. He basically said, “”if you think we are going to sit back and let you tell callers to complain to US that it’s our fault town halls are angry, think again. Its the Democrats bill, and it’s their plan that is making folks angry. Go talk to them.”

      Sneaky trick, but pretty effing funny way to make a point.

  13. Great DailyHowler – Aug. 5 –

    Eugene Robinson can’t remember anything in our history crazier than the “birthers” – and goes on to explain it’s because they detest a Black president.

    But Somerby reminds Robinson that he was SILENT during the 90s as his media cohorts dispensed daily lunacy:

    •As governor, Bill Clinton murdered many rivals. Hillary Clinton was involved.
    •As first lady, Hillary Clinton was involved in Vince Foster’s death.
    •As governor, Bill Clinton trafficked drugs through Mena, Arkansas.
    •Bill Clinton was himself a major coke user. It’s why his nose is so red.
    •As a graduate student, Bill Clinton visited Moscow because he was a Soviet agent (or something).
    •The Clintons decorated the White House Christmas tree with condoms and drug paraphernalia.


    • I read it and I wanted to recommend today’s installment of the dailyhowler to everyone.

    • myIQ wrote: >>>Actually it’s more of an extension of the race card strategy, because they are trying to tie birtherism to racism too.

      Exactly! and Eugene Robinson unknowlingly admits it via the Daily Howler article above.

      • Whole lotta dog whistles in Eugene Robinson’s articles lately. This is the same guy who accomodated the Obama campaign when they were dog whistling right before South Carolina in the primaries.

        Does he really think his readers are too stupid to see it?

    • yes and that’s a fraction of the craziness that passed for ” news” .

    • I detest a black president and it is not because he is black. What kind of oddball racism is it to think that a black man can not be disliked for any other reason than because he is black.
      I detest Robinson too because he is the first pundit I saw the night of the New Hampshire primary claiming the Bradly effect is why Obama lost that night.

  14. Follow up: I read the Peter Dauo post completely, and comments.

    Didn’t realize it was HuffPo……but most of the comments are negative, disillusioned with Obama, dislike the plan, etc.

    And those are HuffPo Democrats, mostly Obots.

    Speaks volumes.

    If the DNC & party Democrats keep demonizing these people, they’ll lose them completely.

  15. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5720J120090803?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

    This is what the American people are facing every day. The last thing they need is some dipsh-t that their tax money pays talking down to them and treating them with disrespect.



  16. I have so many colliding thoughts on this whole thing that it’s nearly impossible for me to put them on one comments.

    I have a bone to pick with all sides involved
    I’m burdened by my visceral dislike of the Right-wing (a very long story)
    The memories of the Healthcare fight of 1993 are still vivid in me
    I’m very disappointed with the Dem “Leadership”
    Every group passionately defended by people Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michelle Malkin and their ilk makes me want to puke
    The healthcare reform is turning out to be a dud but I don’t know if it’s better than nothing
    I’m aware of Rightwing astroturfing
    Obots themselves mastered astroturfing (we can talk about caucus if they dare challenge me) so what are they bellyaching about?

    • Fair enough. But focus on these thoughts:

      The Obama campaign techniques are now being used on their fellow Democrats, who do not like his healthcare plan.

      We’re all Bill & Hillary now.

    • Right-wing astroturfing on health care was inevitable-but it was the Dems who put single payer right off the table.

      I think that that was a surprise to a lot of people-that it was not to be so much as discussed.
      But a 1000 page bill was to be rushed through in its stead.

      Pumas here knew darn well that all considerations of serious Health Care reform vanished on May 31 last year.

    • They’re bellyaching because they prefer to blame right-wingers rather than Mr. Obama’s government for the failure of their UHC dreams.

  17. When I see these people that live off other people’s taxes and the way they are acting, I keep thinking of something I learned when I was a train dispatcher.
    On the radio when you want a reply you say “over”
    When the transmission is finished you say ” out”
    People have a habit of saying ” over and out”
    What they are saying is ” you can talk but I am not listening”

    sounds a lot like congress today “over and out” is the new message.



  18. Steny Hoyer didn’t draw much of a crowd did he?

  19. What I find remarkable is that these protesters are not interested in having a discussion on healthcare. They just want to shut the whole thing down and they are particularly obnoxious, calling their interlocutors liars among other names.

    Once somebody tries to advocates the single payer option he gets shouted down, and they really seem to dislike the public option.

    What is it they really want? Just not touch “the best healthcare system in the world”?

    • Not really. They DO ask good questions about Obamacare, but when the speaker gives them only talking points from Pelosi’s red-white-and-blue index card, they find it patronizing.

      Keep in mind, the videos the DNC are posting are a very small part of the entire meeting.

      The impression you’ve gotten is exactly what they wanted you to get.

      • I’ve seen many videos, especially on RW sites praising the protesters just because they disrupt townhall meetings. They get special praise when it the Congressperson had to be escorted off the premise.

        They certainly don’t allow any discussion about Single Payer, in fact Doggett (sp?) in TX got shouted off the stage because he said he would vote for single payer.

        • Well, hell, mablue. Obama doesn’t allow any discussion of single payer, either.

          Neither does Rahm Emmanuel.

          Does THAT offend you?

          • Yes!

            that was another edition of “Simple Answer to Simple Questions”

          • All sides have right to have a say. But, if single payers have to fight Obama it should be done. Just saying that you don’t like Obama’s plan without exercising the same right that all town hall members have to voice protest of the Obama plan doesn’t seem like a lot of fight on the left. I plan to be at McCaskill town hall meeting with Single Payer sign. (and with a voice)

        • Agreed. That’s the sad thing is the freaking wingers are sucking all the oxygen out of the debate. The people who actually elect democrats are single payer people, and they are steamed. They deserve to be heard. Although, I read at one townhall where everyone was allowed to ask a question and get an answer, it went smoothly.

        • I do not recall Doggett saying anything about his plan to vote for single payer specifically. He just said that this protest strengthened his resolve to vote for healthcare reform.

          Many of the protesters at Doggett’s Austin appearance were Democrats.

    • Until you actually go to a meeting, or know someone who you trust’s version of what really happened, it’s all media manipulation. IMO anyway.

    • Who are “these protesters?” Have you been to any town halls or are you just referring to the cartoonish characters that have been featured in the media. Notice they never show anyone asking a thoughtful, intelligent question, it’s always the weirdest most misinformed person in the room. That’s deliberate. I doubt that all of “these protesters” are the same. For example, they are not all Republicans.

  20. Hey, a conservative friend of mine (he’s a socially liberal libertarian, not a Bushy) was railing against the health care plan (for all the wrong reasons mind you) and he told me that the White House Web site is inviting people to “report” people that they hear talking down the health plan.

    Is this true, has anyone else heard about this? Ostensibly it is so that the Obamantion can provide them with the “accurate fact about plan” but I smacks of informing on enemies of the regime to me.

    • Yeah, it’s true, but I don’t think it’s necessarily as creepy as it sounds. What would be great is if people started reporting both rightwinger scare tactic BS and also the Obama admin’s own misleading statements about healthcare.

      • Should we report Open Secrets.org for posting the true $$$numbers Obama took from HMO’s, insurance companies , and pharmaceuticals?

        neener neener. lol

      • Maybe not as creepy as it sounds, or maybe it is, but I can guarantee one thing:

        It would have been a front page Cheeto post and a Keith O segment screaming “fascism!” if the Bush Whitehouse had put up a dot-gov page asking people to “let them know” about websites and emails that were spreading “fishy disinformation” about his policies. No doubt in my mind. I myself would have been yelling about it.

        • Oh, I don’t disagree with that. Just trying to look on the bright side of the dark side here and say that what needs to be tattle-taled on is both the BS cries of “socialism!” anytime anyone tries to discuss healthcare reform and also Obama admins own foolishness on healthcare. Obama, Gibbs, Rahm, Sebeilus, and Axelrod have been terrible salespeople on healthcare so far. They are not acting like they want real healthcare reform to pass so is it any wonder people distrust them?

          • They aren’t acting because they DON’T want real healthcare reform to pass.

          • No, they sure don’t seem to want real heallthcare reform to pass. Obama’s base are the banks and health insurance assholes who bankrolled his campaign. If he wants to convince people otherwise, he needs to step up.

            And, to clarify, WMCB, when I said I don’t disagree–I really should have said I agree, because I do 😉

    • Thanks for confirming. I missed it on the previous thread. Unfortunately I am working so I am having to pick my moments to read a little here nd there.

      The most disappointing thing to me about the healthcare debate is that the media seems to only be covering the hare-brained socialist take-over scare tactics opposition. Exposing right wing lies, and left wing sell-outs are rarely discussed.

      The serious merits of single payer or even a robust viable public options are essentially non-existent in the MSM.

      • The MSM is only worried about the game aspect of Obama getting something passed rather than what he is trying to get passed.

      • The media doesn’t discuss single payer or Medicare for All, because Obama’s media contacts (Axelrod, Gibbs, Emmanuel) have already told them that for the Obama administration, single payer is OFF THE TABLE. It was, from the beginning.

        Even John Conyers has admitted HE wanted single payer, but Obama eliminated that possibility from the git go.

        • And frikkin Lloyd Doggett KNEW that, mablue.

          But he rolled over, when Obama ruled it out.

          And the Democrats in Austin KNEW he did.

          • Okay, mablue. I talked to my son, who was there.

            They yelled Doggett off the stage, because he said he was going to vote for Obamacare even if his constituents, who wanted single payer, didn’t agree with him.

      • weirdly enough the one person covering all the angle is lou Dobbs

    • They can also collect their email addresses etc. if they are forwarded…

  21. I have been saying Jr.jr since the campaign.
    I think that after Obama telling his supporters “get in their faces”, any claim of high road on the GOP is lost.

    • Jr.jr I like it. I am going to use that as my back-up when I have overused W2!


  22. My problem with Obama on this issue is his COMPLETE LACK of leadership and even his lack of passion on the issue.

    I follow this stuff closely and I don’t really know what he wants the legislation to look like. I haven’t heard him twisting some arms (maybe he did twist the arms of Liberals).

    People cannot go out there and fight for the legislation because they don’t feel strongly about it. Just fighting Right-wingers for the sake of it is tiresome. You need some fire and Obama is not giving it to his supporters and others who want a better healthcare policy.

    • He blew it, he SOLD US OUT, the next time the Democrats have control of the Congress and Senate will be many, many years away! The fact that he is using Harry and Louise who killed Health Care Reform in 90’s is a clear indicator of who is in charge again…THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!

    • Bingo! ” I follow this stuff closely and I don’t really know what he wants the legislation to look like.”

      You got to roll up your sleeves and get involved and not just with the CEO’s at WH luncheons.

      • I get depressed when I think about what Bill or Hillary could have done with THIS MUCH public support for reform.

        Think either of them would have been talking in vague generalities and saying “just shut up and support it?” Lord, they would have crafted a beautifully simple bill and then given a town hall that laid it out in detail, in simple language, and made it seem like the most natural and sensible and practical thing in the world.

        • Yes. The contrast, especially today, is heartbreaking.

          Stupid Obots.

        • remember that Hillary said that if a democratic president ever had a veto proof majority in congress that single payer SHOULD be on the table.

          • That was the ‘Good Obama’, this is Teh ‘Ivy League Obama’ who is all chummy with HARRY and LOUISE and THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!

    • I follow this stuff closely and I don’t really know what he wants the legislation to look like.

      Believe me, Obama doesn’t either. He will sign whatever is put before him , like always . It’s just that simple. If someone is waiting for him to lead, they have a long wait. imo

  23. I like afrocity’s title today at her blog, about the hypocritical outrage by the Democrats:

    “The astroturf is always greener on the other side of the septic tank.”

  24. OT but interesting: My excongressman’s verdicts are being read right now and so far guilty on the first two counts of the 16 counts


  25. 76% of Americans want a Public Option, why not give it to them and let the other 24% stay with the Insurance Companies. Simple enough.

  26. Well this interesting:

    What on earth is going on at CNN?

    The network — already taking criticism for declining to run an ad criticizing Lou Dobbs — is now refusing to run an ad nationally criticizing the insurance industry, the group that tried to place the ad tells me.

    CNN’s reason: The ad “unnecessarily” singles out a top insurance industry executive by name for criticism.

    I guess MSNBC isn’t the only corrupt network

    • They can’t go against the Reform, they are part of the reform, they PROMISED! They won’t raise premiums and everything is going to be all right again, like it was in the 90s with good Ole Harry and Louise…shucks they fools you before, what’s to prevent them from fooling you again. Harry and Louise – “We Can Get the Job Done this time” ARE YOU GOING TO LISTEN TO THESE FOOLS AGAIN???? WAKE UP! Support HR 676 Single Payer and tell these fools to TAKE A HIKE, just like the premiums have since the LAST TIME THEY HELPED!

      • hey, how about we start a campaign to email all of congress, senate and everyone in the administration with this message..

        single payer, HR 676, Medicare for all! Get it done or get lost next election.

    • I’m shocked I tell you. shocked.

  27. Head of agency controlling Fannie & Freddie resigns….


    Hmmm…..wonder who Obama will appoint.

  28. My problem with the Dem “Leadership” is that these guys are very good at looking for excuses.

    In 1993, they complained that the WH wrote the entire policy, therefore bypassing them and they were not going to let that happen. Many of them made the whole thing about Hillary Clinton, her “arrogance”, her “secrecy” and that yahoo Bill Clinton’s clumsiness in dealing with the Congress and the “forces” of Washington DC.

    Now, Obama goes the other route (cowardly decision if you ask me). Let them write the entire legislation, and they are still unable to deliver. What’s the excuse this time?

    • I hate to say it, but he really could have been historic and gotten this country to join all the other Western countries in proving Universal Health Care, but NOOO he cares more about HARRY AND LOUISE winning AGAIN! The most important piece of legislation in America today, with nearly 100 cosponsors in the house, H.R.676 is the only health care bill that will truly reform our tragically broken health care system.

    • They don’t want real healthcare equality. There are people who want credit for something called “healthcare reform” but very few seem to want actual reform.

    • Latest Quinipac poll shows most americans opposed to this bill and very distrustful of all the crap hidden in there, but STILL 62% in favor of a public option open to EVERYONE.

      A small “public” option that is not really public is nothing more than another Medicaid program for the poor, which is CRAP, and no one wants that. Medicaid recipients can’t find docs as it is.

      People want a real public option that has real “how are we going to pay for it” numbers attached, and that does not have a billion side-provisions attached for how the govt is going to stick their nose in your business in every way they possibly can.

      IMO, from talking to folks all over the political spectrum, most people basically want tax monies (for those who need subsidizing) and employee/employer contributions for those who CAN pay, funneled through a VERY SIMPLE non-profit agency that administers and runs the payment end, with set fee schedules and coverage parameters, but leaves the micro-managing of healthcare decisions themselves the fuck alone.

      If the Dems offered them that, in a SIMPLE a open-to-all but forced-on-no one program, they’d bite.

      • That’s exactly what I find as well. That cuts across the political spectrum with the exception of some hard cases.

        • Exactly. Some mistakenly think that anyone concerned about cost, or about govt interference, is opposed to UHC. I’ve not found that to be true, actually. Many WANT the UHC, just not the bloated bureaucracy or the intrusiveness.

      • and give up those fat, insurance campaign contribution checks?? ….no dice. /snark .

    • What’s the excuse this time?

      ” Blue dogs! Tea baggers! ” Really no one will be happier over possible GOP gains in the 2010 congress than the DC Dems! Less work fining excuses that way

    • mablue,

      I agree. I hoped he would prove me to be embarassingly wrong about him by being the shining advocate he claimed. Unfortunately, and instead, he lived up to both his past record and the implications of his bundling.


    • What’s the excuse this time?
      Oooh oooh, I know this one. Aliens came down and kidnapped them.

  29. And why the DNC demonizes GOP and women, Obama does the same to…B0bots

  30. We are watching a FUNDAMENTAL change happening and WE have a front row seat. The democrat party is morphing into the GOP — or some form of jib jabber crap.

    This reminds me of story a geneticist told me — Fruit Flies are used as study subjects by many geneticists and they breed the flies for ONE trait. This genetics professor was selecting flies that would turn left after emerging from a “flight tube”. The flies were given two choices — left or right. I forgot how many generations he said he kept this up.

    ANYWAY — one morning he arrived in the lab and his lab assistants were nearly jumping up and down — it was not the usual day at the lab.

    The newest batch of flies were ALL TURNING RIGHT. After taking the breeding as far as it would go — somehow the gene for right left dominance shifted.

    A whole lot of the behavior crap that Obambam is using is really old and discredited. It will work for awhile — but when the school of fish turn left or right — they are doing so by reacting to the majority.

    We all do profiling — when we meet people, when we listen to politicians. We will see little signs that indicate that something is not right. After awhile people will notice that their emotions have been manipulated.

    There is something not right with 0bambam. He is an illusion a PRODUCT, a brand. He is still running for office. I’m seeing the question — “WHEN” does he work — for people who are not political at all. WHERE are his friends — his life long friends?

    Meanwhile even the 0bots are losing their home, losing their jobs, losing their health insurance. Nothing has changed — just a whole lot of really rich people who are getting richer. People are still fighting with their insurance companies to get basic medical care. People are still dying — death by Insurance companies. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

  31. The Spam monster ate my comment.

  32. My comment did NOT post

  33. HELP I’m locked in the spam basement.

  34. HELP my comments will NOT post.

  35. Oh fuck it — I can’t post today.


  36. “Put The Piggy In Its Place” HR 676

    • I like this ad.

      • Isn’t it original and so true. The insurance company has been making profits and each time reform comes up, they bring HARRY AND LOUISE to kill it! These people are not actors and they are telling it like it is, and maybe congress will do the right thing this time and pass HR 676 Single payer.

        • Of course the piggies who run the networks won’t run this ad. They just keep bombarding us with ads for Cialis and Restless leg syndrome.

          • To quote Tommy Chong:

            “That’s not my leg”

          • Gosh, I am going to have to buy me a myiq2xu dictionary, because half the time I am too old to know what they joke is?!?

          • You know what gets me about those Cialis ads? The couple always winds in separate claw foot tubs?

            What is up with that? how is that sexy? there is cast iron between them!

            and the Restless leg syndrome….the side effects sound alot worse than the syndrome ! lol!

  37. HR 676 Single Payer…it makes sense, 76% of Americans want a Public Option, why is congress listening to HARRY AND LOUIS??? Listen to the PEOPLE! Sign the petition at: http://www.PDAmerica.org There are 50 Million Americans without Health Care and 60 Americans die each day due to lack of health care insurance…DO SOMETHING THIS TIME!

  38. http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=334276757191561

    got this in an e-mail today. one take on the town hall meetings



    • I love that…….Congress as George III.

      Great article.

      • I don’t know about Congress but “George III?”

        Oh yeah, I am filing that with as my back-up back-up “Bush III” reference when I overuse “W2” and “Jrjr.”

        Thanks so much, this has been a very profitable TC day.

    • Oh noes!

      The IBD and the WSJ compete for the most putrid editorial page. These people have the worst CDS and just hate anything Dems stand for.

      I wouldn’t trust them to tell me that it’s raining when it’s raining.

      • What DO Dems stand for now, mablue?

        • I think you’ve stomped me on that one.

          Every policy pretty much get watered down by Dems with a supermajority. They find a way to screw it.

          It’s amazing to see the type of crappy policies Republican jammed down our throats with a razor-thin majority.

          This is actually depressing.

      • mablue2
        I was taught you can not fight what you do not know. I get info from all different site to see what is going on.
        Do I believe IBD is a liberal site? No. Do I want to know what people are reading on it ? Yes. If a topic is being discussed here , I think we should know what the other side is saying.



      • You have such knee-jerk reactions to any source that is not “liberal,” but what “liberal” sources do you trust? The NY Times? WAPO? AP? Certainly not TV. I can read/listen to all of it, and then analyze what is b.s. and what has a kernel of truth. Patterns emerge, and it doesn’t matter where the info. is coming from if you are alert to manipulation and truth.

        • Fif
          you lost me what do you mean by knee jerk reaction?

          I want information from all sides then make a decision.



  39. I put much of my faith in this country specifically because of “mobs of old ladies.” Indeed, it’s the old lady mobs that have always come thru for us and put this country on the right path, from getting our kids out of factories to fighting for civil rights.

    Back when Bush was trying to privatize soc sec, I thought uh oh, poor little cowboy, you just woke a sleeping giant. Sure enough, he backed off pretty quick. Obama is making the same mistake with health care. Talking about cuts to medicare, schip, and providing end of life counseling is not the best way to rally the troops who are skeptical about you already.

    • Because we old ladies have seen it all — and this has happened before and it will happen again.

      Sort of like Battlestar Galactica

    • Obama is objecting to http://www.OmoveOn.org??? 😆 NOW that is funny!

    • The One plays all sides. Can’t trust as far you can throw him.

    • Can’t we just let he eat is waffle?

      • oh wow that really came out bad.

        can’t we just let him eat his waffle??

        that’s better

    • “The President discussed how the current tone and culture in Washington made it more difficult than it has been in the past to work in a bipartisan fashion. In particular, he singled out Republican Senators who are trying to work in a bipartisan fashion even in the context of a vocal minority in their party who doubt that the President was born in the US. In this context about the less productive tone of the debate in Washington, he said he didn’t like to see ‘left wing groups attack fellow Democrats.'”

      WTF does this guy stand for–bipartisanship just for the sake of bipartisanship?

      He’s a real Nowhere Man,
      Living in his Nowhere Land
      Making all his nowhere plans
      with nobody.

      • Excellent:

        “He’s a real Nowhere Man,
        Living in his Nowhere Land
        Making all his nowhere plans
        with nobody.”

  40. From Hot Air (a winger blog):

    New DNC ad: Mobs of right-wing lunatics want to feast on your flesh


    No need for outrage, though. Instead, celebrate the fact that even with a Democratic president, a filibuster-proof Congress, and the lure of “free” ice cream in the form of socialized medicine, the left’s somehow managed to turn ObamaCare into a clusterfark of such epic proportions that their health-care message has now actually been reduced to “Don’t listen to the Republicans — they’re crazy.”

  41. http://in.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idINN0525961220090805

    Backtrack and the over and out congress still don’t get it.



    • No, they don’t.

      American Bankruptcy Institute reports today a 34.3% increase in bankruptcies in July.

      The Lords of Congress don’t get it at all.

  42. Political Courage is need! MEDICARE has worked for 45 years, HR 676 is real Health Care Reform, Everybody In, Nobody Out, It’s ALL AMERICAN, just ask your gran!

  43. Where does Obama gets the confidence in passing the current bill from?

    Conyers: “There is no one more disappointed than I am in Barack Obama.”

    Congressman John Conyers says Barack Obama’s stance on health care has been wrong, and it’s going to cost the president “big time.” It might even cost Obama his second term in the White House.

    Conyers gave that assessment at Washington’s Busboys and Poets restaurant, bookstore and bar, where the Progressive Democrats of America were celebrating their fifth anniversary. Conyers is the Congressional Black Caucus’s longest serving member, having represented Detroit since 1964, when Obama was a three-year-old. He’s also one of the most consistently progressive members of the House, chairman of the Judiciary Committee and author of single payer health care bill H.R. 676 – legislation the White House has done its best to smother. Obama once gave lip service to single payer health care, but as president has staked his reputation on a mishmash of corporate schemes and deals-with-the-devil masquerading as health care reform – a thoroughly confused and conflicted legislative concoction that Conyers describes, simply, as “crap.”

    Conyers suggests that, at the end of the legislative process, progressive congresspersons may wind up voting against Obama on health carebecause the bill will be simply too bad for advocates of real reform to support.

    We’ve heard so much what the Blue Dogs want. Why isn’t Obama listening to the Progressive Wing of his party? Is he taking them for suckers granted?

    He may be in for a rude awakening.

    • You can’t be all things to all people without pissing the people who take different sides off.

      • That’s why principles are important–you support something because it is a core issue. *See Nowhere Man above for further explanation…

    • A pretty damning statement from a great party elder who represents the majority. But I forget the “new progressives” don’t give a damn about liberal wisdom and aren’t listening.

      • Not only that, but the progressive caucus of which Conyers is a part, wrote a letter to Nancy Pelosi (all signed it) saying that if a public plan is eliminated from the final bill, they will vote against it, en masse.

        When Pelosi was asked about it at a news conference, she literally laughed out loud, and said something like “I rather doubt they’ll vote against their President.”

        Arrogant much?

        • Either she knows they are paper lions or she assumes they are. There is a difference.

        • If the Dear LEADER President Obama is pushing 11 Million Children to be uninsured and the 50 Million of uninsured is going to grow and premiums are going to continue to SKY ROCKET…YEA, have my support to VOTE AGAINST OUR DEAR LEADER!

        • Do you know if that’s on youtube? Or have a link?

    • Conyers: “There is no one more disappointed than I am in Barack Obama.”

      Well, thank the good Lord they are finally WAKING UP! Obama is working with HARRY and LOUISE and is going to make fools of us all in the process! WHO will continue to suffer and DIE, but the very, very poor and CHILDREN!

      When his plan will render 11 MILLION CHILDREN UNINSURED it is time to represent your constituents and AMERICANS in NEED!

      MEDICARE has worked for 45 years, HR 676 Single Payer is based on MEDICARE, we have to fight for it, even if it means picketing OUR DEAR LEADER President Obama! Let’s face it, when he made his ALLIANCES with HARRY and LOUISE, he made it clear, he is not for the WORKING MEN AND WOMEN of this great country.

      Bravo to Conyers for SPEAKING UP!

  44. Hey, GOP Mickey Edwards writing in the LA Times seems to have gone PUMA. Maybe the idea will spread.

    The (political) party is over

    The parties once served a purpose, but they have degenerated into a system that discourages independent thought and undermines representative government.

    Political theorist Bernard Crick wrote that “politics is how a free people govern themselves.” Strong political parties, on the other hand, are how a free people lose that ability. Parties choose which candidates can be on the November ballot, and do so in primaries and conventions that cater to the extremes. Parties reward fealty and discourage independence. In an earlier time, before the Internet, when it was hard to get information about candidates and they had to depend on party support for campaign funds and volunteers, political parties made sense; today, they are passe, black-and-white television, remnants of a time that has passed.


  45. Here’s another clip of that pissed off dem:

    Yep, it’s the same guy:

  46. Great thread esp the topic regarding the WH asking folks to rat out /report emails of those who question HR3200

    I may have missed a comment as I’ve quickly scanned the thread but….

    Don’t we have the right to DEMAND to know what the WH plans to do with that information?

    When THE GREAT PLAN passes and you go to register for your shiny new gov-y-ment plan using your email account….”uh, sorry, denied! “. You’re then redirected to god knows where.

    Seriously though…..this must be an infringement of our civil liberties….. ???

    • Haven’t ya heard? Bush III picks and chooses his civil liberties to serve his own agenda–just like W.

      • maybe the offending emailers will get special invites to “healthcare reform re-education camp”

        beers included.

  47. I’ve noticed that many of the protesters look like retirees, and I can’t help but think the Democrats are making a big mistake in how they’re responding to their concerns. Obama deserves much of the blame himself. What did he think was going to happen after he emphasized how much money is spent during the last months of life? Of course people are going to jump to the conclusion that the government will try to save money by eliminating expensive care for those they suspect may be approaching their last months of life. And, why of earth did the Dems put in those provisions about end of life counseling? Opponents didn’t even have to work hard after that to scare people, all they had to do was highlight a few provisions and play them up a little.

    My husband’s side of the family are all covered by Canada’s medical program, and I’m not opposed to single payer, but I find this bill the Dems are putting together troubling in a number of ways.

    • The provisions about end of life counseling were a BIG mistake.

      • My grandfather declined dialysis, checked himself out of the hospital, and decided he would die at home. He didn’t want to be hooked up to machines or die in a hospital, and for him that was the right decisions.

        However, I’m sure he wouldn’t have responded well to any politician pushing end of life counseling, even so called voluntary end of life counseling (old people have been around long enough to know how things work, many voluntary programs become mandatory with time).

      • I think seniors are afraid that their Medicare will some how be eliminated or tampered with. In a way it just shows how good they think Medicare is. The provision about end of life counseling is IMO an excellent idea but so easy to misconstrue. You can make anything look bad if you try hard enough.

        • I don’t think end of life counseling should be a part of health care reform. Doctors and patients should be talking about this, not the govt imho. The Dems are scaring people away from health care reform who wouldn’t have been scared of it otherwise.

        • They are using FEAR MONGERING, because several states have laws that require that hospitals and doctors speak to you about Power of Attorney for Health Care (upon every admission and to see if you have one, if you do, you say you do and that is the end of it).

          Click to access PwrOf.PDF

          They are using it NOW to scare Ole folks. I have one, had one for years, over two decades, and no one has tried to kill me with it.

          Don’t let them SCARE you! MEDICARE a good plan, HR 676 Single Payer will take care of you, and your family, just as it has taken care of seniors for 45 years.

          • I agree that the rightwingers are using fear-mongering, but why the hell did the Democrats put that in and let them give the rightwingers something to fearmonger with? (Answer: because they don’t care about real reform.)

          • typing errors! should read…….

            …but why the hell did the Dems put that in and give the rwingers something to fearmonger with?

          • Yea, it is the Ole ‘Losing is Winning’ cuz they never wanted REFORM. I nearly fell over when I saw HARRY and LOUISE doing their bidding again. What a missed opportunity.

            Who ever putting that in, when States do it already needs to be FIRED!

          • When I get upset I am the master of typing errors. I also haven’t had dinner, trying to figure out why people like Michael Moore have gone Stealth Silent?!? That really has me upset and after doing the movie and NOW he is MIA????? AH (((ready to scream)))

    • Look, I am willing to compromise. 76% of Americans want a Public Option, HR 676 Single Payer is based on MEDICARE and won’t need any further government structure and it is a proven model for 45 years. The other 24% can continue to buy Health insurance and stay with their plans and if they lose coverage we will let them into MEDICARE.

      I would even go so far as going 70%, 30% if the 6% that want a Public Option wanted to continue to buy expensive insurance, just to be fair. If they didn’t like it after the first year the 6% could get into MEDICARE. See, we are willing to let those stay with the insurance company model that want to, but frankly I have had it.

      • We hear all this bitching and moaning about wanting private insurance, but I’d bet money on it that people would not turn it down. Sure there would be those who would, on their own, buy extra protection. But, do you really think anyone would turn down Medicare. I think not.

      • That’s a good idea. I’ll get behind you for it. (Just don’t duck, when big insurance throws anything at you.)

      • Medicare for All with a Private Option. Great insurance reform and it fits on a bumper sticker.

  48. I think we should report Michael Moore, because he has gone silent on HR 676 Single Payer, since the election of Obama whom he supported over Hillary. So, how’s it working out Michael?

    Oh, where O where CAN Michael Be?????

    • I think we should report Michael Moore MISSING!

      • He’s in Rolling Stone defending Obama.

        • Please provide me a link… He is turning to be a BIG disappointment, after picking up his awards and getting all the praise, when it is curtain time, he isn’t supporting HR 676 Single Payer. AHHH (((ready to scream, that makes me angry)))

          • Can’t provide you a link. Heard it this morning on Morning Joe.

          • I always thought Moore was a propagandaist, but he was raising attention to important issues and that is not unimportant. The problem is he does hit-and-run stuff and switches to supporting Obama, who is part of the problem. Is Moore going to expose anything about Obama in his new project about Wall Street? We shall see, it is not looking likely.

        • I was about to say…

          Moore lost all credibility with me when he supported Obama in the primaries and completely sidestepped the issue of healthcare.

          • If Obama wanted them to go against their interests, they would do what he said, just to make him successful….AHHHH! Michael Moore has lost it!

    • Michael Moore is the left’s version of Glenn Beck. Seriously. He often hits on truth that no one else will speak, but at heart he’s a pompous self-promoting self-interested gasbag.

  49. I heard Diane Rheem tell about the Republican Operatives today along with Boxer stating that these were the same people as the teabaggers. Guess thats the talking point. Doesn’t matter if its actually the voters. We have now become operatives. As time goes, the Democrats better figure out that there are plenty of Democrats in the mix that are not going to sit by and be good little boys and girls when our lives are on the line. They don’t really have a plan yet as I can tell, its the old “trust me” thing again. Sorry, this is too important for me to take any Congressman’s word for anything anymore, especially under this administration. Make a bill, I’ll read it, then decide for myself if I want to support it. They already lost me when Public Option was created out of thin air. Its being pushed like we all should know what it means.

  50. You know, when a Canadian TV station asked Canadians who they considered the “greatest Canadian ever” they overwhelmingly picked the PM who instituted single-payer healthcare in that country.

    Doesn’t BO want that kind of glory? Don’t the Democrats?

  51. This is a great, great post. They ridicule these people at their own political peril. It will backfire..big time.

    The blame lies squarely on BO for not being able to communicate his plan, whatever the f*ck it is.

    I loathe the “new” dems.

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