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The writing was on the wall last summer, Amanda

On Salon’s Broadsheet today is a post about NOW’s recent election.  It was the HOPEY/CHANGEY! candidate represented by Latifa Lyles versus the old, stolid and presumably boring,uneducated, working class sino-peruvian lesbian, Terry O’Neill (she’s actually not a lesbian, not that there’s anything wrong with that).  The old crone won by 8 votes.  Dr. Violet Socks celebrated with virtual fireworks and although I haven’t followed NOW for awhile, as I understand it, the organization is returning to its roots.  The grassroots.  With demonstrations and sit-ins and lobbying and stuff that actually used to, you know, work!

All I’ve heard about Lyles, other than that she was Kim Gandy’s hand-picked successor, a dubious distinction given Gandy’s recent track record, is that Lyles was a prodigy of Facebook and Twitter.  Yeah!  That made her young, cool and groovy.  And wouldn’t everyone prefer a young, cool and groovy woman to an old Roseanne clone?  Well, sure you would.  That’s what the whole patriarchy thing is all about.  Youth and beauty vs age and saggy tits.

Of course, what Lyles supporters seem to forget is it was *us*, the decrepit old farts that were doing system administration, writing web pages in HTML without an editor and knew how to configure an apache server while most of them were learning to read.  The new generation has it easy.  Twitter and Facebook are pre-written, attractively packaged applications.  Take them all away and would any of the Latifa Lyles out there know how to ftp, finger and ping?  Well, sure, some of them would.  But it’s not like we lost our abilities to adapt to new technologies as we got older.  We’d stand a better chance of getting our message through in the event of a crackdown than someone who just knows how to re-tweet.

No, what the fourth wave is bringing to the table is a generation of women who went from High School to college to the work place, taking up careers only men had easy access to before.  We’re the ones who fought our way up the career ladder, sacrificed and learn to negotiate the gender politics.  We’re still doing it. We bring experience, nollij and strategy to the table.   And the last thing we are willing to do is step aside so that some pipsqueak who knows how to download an app to an iPhone can tell us we’re irrelevent because Barack Obama and his ilk have made the country so post-feminist.

Amanda Marcotte wrote a revealing comment to the Salon piece:

When will liberals stop letting conservatives guilt trip us into self-destruction? If a bunch of anti-choicers claim to be feminists, that means, “We are trying to infiltrate your organization and movement to make it irrelevant. We’re pretending to be your friends to stab you in the back.” “Pro-life” is misogyny, and has no place in any feminist organization.

You really don’t get it, do you, Amanda?  Last summer while we were researching a slate of Democratic down ticket candidates to endorse, we were hard pressed to find more than a handful on Act Blue that actually had reproductive and abortion rights on their issues pages.  That topic was conspicuously scrubbed.  The ones who did have it, like Linda Stender and Dennis Schulman, didn’t get warm fuzzies from their party last year.  There was a reason why these sensitive subjects were erased.  It’s because the Democrats, the party that was taken over by young, cool and groovy Barack Obama and his organization, were trying to appeal to the anti-choice crowd to get them to vote for Democrats.  And those people turned out in droves to vote for proposition 8 in California too.

Please, Amanda, don’t lecture the rest of us about the anti-choice crowd.  The president and the party he stands for already sold their souls to them.  If NOW finally has a president who will stop cozying up to the Obama administration and will stand her ground with them, be very, very grateful.  Go back to your iPhone and let the grown ups take it from here.

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141 Responses

  1. Oh Amen riverdaughter!

  2. If NOW finally has a president who will stop cozying up to the Obama administration and will stand her ground with them, be very, very grateful. Go back to your iPhone and let the grown ups take it from here.-RD

    Yea, they forget that us Ole aged titters worked our arses off to pay for college so they could have it better than us.

  3. There are a lot of “feminist” issues besides abortion, and there are organizations like NARAL that deal specifically with that one issue.

    Pro-life women still face misogyny and gender discrimination.

    • Change that pro life to anti choice please. I’d be hard pressed to find a person anti life and certainly I’d argue that the individual who killed Tiller and the folks who support and encouraged him are more “pro life” then those of us that support a medical procedure that allows women to not be held hostage based on their reproductive system.

      That being said, I absolutely agree that the Feminists for Life are just as entitled to the term feminist as those of us who want abortion to remain an option.

      • Can someone be against abortion and still believe that it is an individual choice?

        After all, “pro-choice” is not the same as “pro-abortion”

        • Yes, I believe that someone can personally dislike abortion but still feel that each woman has the right to make their own decision based on their own unique set of circumstances. They would fall into the pro choice camp.

          The reason I make the distinction is that anti choicers wish to legislate away the option that would allow women to make reproductive decisions on their own. It isn’t a pro life position. I say this particularly because in cases such as when they sought the “partial birth ban” they placed women in a more precarious health position that increases the risk of death for women. It’s more pro fetus than it is pro life.

          • I totally agree. Make your own choice, but do not get in the way of other women making theirs.

        • Yes Myiq. I believe you can. My wife is against abortion personally as are my three daughters but they also believe it is a woman’s right to have a choice.

          Myself, I personally am against abortion but I am also a strong supporter in pro-Choice.

          One does not cancel the other in my view.

          • Choice means you have to have more than one option.


            I think that it has completely gotten lost in the mix that if a woman chooses to continue a pregancy that she should have the support of her sisters as well.

            One of the things I liked was that Feminists for Life have done their share to ensure that women and the children they bring into the world do have a safety net.

            I was no Elizabeth Dole fan but it is kinda sad that the Elizabeth Cady Stanton Pregant and Parenting Act died in the Senate when she lost her seat. It could have been an opportunity to support women who do choose to take the inherant risks involved in continuing a pregnancy and take on the responsibility of a child. It is particularly disappointing because birth control prices on campuses have soared from what I understand. This was an area where we should have sought common ground. It was also an opportunity lost to determine who among the group believes birth control qualifies as “abortion.”

        • I can even imagine being pro-choice and choosing NOT to have an abortion.
          My body, my choice.

        • yes, that is exactly what pro-choice is…pro-choice, one eay or the other it is your choice.

          When anti-choice folks talk about pro-choice they say “pro-abortion” . They are using inacurate language, just as it is inacurate to say they they are pro-life.

    • there are organizations like NARAL that deal specifically with that one issue

      Ah yes, NARAL. Now there’s a stellar organization. Let’s see, who was it they endorsed in the Dem primary, oh yea, the once candidate who actually isn’t pro choice as it turns out. They must be genius’ in that organization.

  4. Yowsa, Riverdaughter – you’re HOT!

    From that article:

    Meanwhile, Viva la Feminista blogger Veronica Arreola, who supported Lyles, says O’Neill (who is pro-choice) owes her election to pro-life feminists.

    So, O’Neill is pro-choice….. But she’s still evil, evil, evil because someone doesn’t like all the people who voted for her?

    • It sounded to me as if Gandy and her ilk were trying to de-legitimize O’Neill with “guilt by association” tactics.

  5. Heh
    Who cares if those same anti choicers stood strong on issues such as domestic violence or were actually able to help pass stuff like the Child Enforcement Act. That isn’t “real” feminism. /snark If real feminism is name calling and smearing folks because you disagree with them, I want no part of the label.

    Frankly, I am getting really tired of hearing who qualifies as a real feminist. It’s tiresome.

    • i remember going to now meetings in the early 80s with the same damned conversations …

      • If all they are interested in is reproductive health and not issues such as economic parity or addressing the disparity regarding the perpetration of violence against women I wish they’d just say so and be done with it.

        Frankly, reproduction is an issue that disproportionately affects us but it is far from the only issue. It’s an insult to pretend that because I disagree with someone on how to address reproductive issues that they can’t be my ally on other issues. Who are they to say Kay Bailey Hutchison’s vote was an less crucial in getting Lily Ledbetter passed then someone who is pro choice?

        • My sense is that it’s not that all they are interested in is reproductive issues. It’s that abortion is the most prominent buzzword in their vocabulary, so they grab onto it regardless of the fact that it has very little to do with the particular conversation at hand.

          Lyles supporters are all in a twitter (no pun intended, ha ha) because of some poorly skilled blogger’s claim that she ‘heard’ that the election was invaded by Palin supporters, that’s they only reason O’Neill won. Nevermind that it doesn’t make a lick of sense (both Lyles and O’Neill are strongly pro-choice, so why would anti-abortion people care who won?) or that the blogger cannot grasp the difference between a Palin supporter and a person (formerly ‘feminist’) who believes the the National Organization for Women should defend all women, not just the hip young dreamy-eyed ones, against misogynistic attacks.

          But this tactic is the very same one used by the OFB during the campaigns and it’s no shocker that they’re still using it. (What I can’t decide is whether it’s intentional or some are just so poor in their reasoning skills that it’s heartfelt but stupid). In fact it’s the same tactic all nasty word-twisters use, people like Rush. Grab some buzzword you know will get people all riled up and agonized, and start flashing it around attached to the group you’re trying to demonize, even though it has little actual relationship to issue at hand, or it’s just an outright lie.

          And abortion is the biggest buzzword their is. Frankly, it’s not at all clear to me, because no Lyles supporters were able to articulate a reason in her favor aside from her age, race, and use of Twitter, that any particular feminist issue IS important to them.

          • Valhalla,

            It’s great to see you. I just read your post over at Corrente. I’ve always loved your writing.

          • There is absolutely nothing that should preclude a Palin supporter from being a feminist.

            Frankly Obama’s position on abortion doesn’t appear to be heavily “pro choice”

            I base that statement on his HHS appointment, his SCOTUS appointment and his failure to rescind the conscience clause.

            Meanwhile she actually appointed a pro choicer to the bench in her state(despite her personal convictions).

          • And as RL posters pointed out in re Failbot ageism, O’Neill is 10 years older than Obama. No 56 year old politician would be considered old at all. But once again, the Jezebel class and age demo show their feminism by acting as if middle aged men are cool and hip and disparaging middle aged women as if they’re worthless, useless, and should commit ritual suicide at 27.

          • Middle aged male politician, I mean

          • hey bboomer! glad to see you too! I’ve been awash in real life and mostly have not had time to do much more than read TC and a few other blogs. For some reason, this NOW election really grabbed me. Maybe because it was such a replay of the primaries.

            Someone pointed out that the ageism of the Third Wavers is amazingly short-sighted, since it’s a few scant years before they’ll be tossed out for passing the shelf-life limit they themselves have established. Ahh. I guess they’re too young to have learned the truth of that whole “what goes around, comes around” thing!

    • but but but…. the ONLY right a woman has that matters is all about her Uterus!!!
      What does that mean to those of us who had ours removed two decades ago? Are we not feminists because we don’t have to worry about abortion.

      Frankly I could give a shit about the rights of young women to get abortions anymore. Let them go back and struggle, maybe they will have a finer apreciation of their rights if they have to fight for them. If they gave a damn about their reproductive rights (and had a brain to know who their allies are) they would have voted for Hillary.

  6. I am really, really tired of idiots like Amanda and Jessica trying to be the Voice of a Generation. They don’t speak for anyone but themselves. Amanda was actively strategizing to stop Clinton by strategic voting between Obama and Edwards. She didn’t care about choice then, in fact everything was supposed to be sacrificed to Obama’s nonexistant anti-war cred. So how’d that work out? And now that we’ve proved that women’s votes belong to Democrats and they can go and chase those Holy Grail anti-choice votes and not lose their cheerleaders, NOW we’re supposed to believe she cares and take her advice to keep going down the same path of spectacular enabling and failure?

  7. I have to get a t-shirt with something proclaiming my sino-peruvian lesbian status …

    just love it when you get all wound up and right on, RD

  8. Also, i think it’s kinda kewl that our website’s got referrals in Farsi, even if I don’t know what it means

  9. Latifa Lyles, Vice President – Membership (BIO)

    “NOW is the Time” Team: Our Promise

    Latifa, Sonia, Janice, and Liz:
    “For Equality, For Justice, For Progress”

    Were they running as a slate? http://www.nowsthetime09.com/candidates.html

  10. Tell it, RD!!! Amanda Marcotte is no feminist, as she demonstated so definitively last year. And that piece by Judy Berman is a joke. As a couple of the commenters pointed out, she doesn’t offer a single shred of evidence that anti-choice Palin voters elected O’Neil, or explain why anti-choicers would vote for a pro-choice candidate who wants to bring NOW back to some semblance of relevancy.

    • Meh, I have no problem with her calling herself a feminist. I would like to know though where she gets the authority to decide who else is entitled to the title?
      Who gave her the power to decide on the behalf of womenhood which issues and positions have which priority?

      It’s one thing to disagree with the anti choice position and quite another to decide that their position on that one issue precludes them from caring about and being active regarding women’s issues.

      I disagree with Kay Bailey Hutchison but I will not toss her under the bus and minimalize her part in crucial issues such as pay parity- notgonnahappen

      I can win the choice argument on merit, I don’t need to smear her as a woman.

      • Not to mention that, IMHO, it’s more politically perilous for a Kay Bailey Hutchison to cast a vote for something like the Ledbetter Act (as empty a law as that is) than for, say, a Barbara Boxer to do the same.

  11. “Meanwhile, Viva la Feminista blogger Veronica Arreola, who supported Lyles, says O’Neill (who is pro-choice) owes her election to pro-life feminists.”

    No, no, no.

    As I wrote here, that’s a misunderstanding:


    The women who were backing Terry O’ Neill are longstanding NOW members and thoroughly pro-choice.

    • Aw, c’mom Violet, don’t let facts get in the way.

    • Yah, we know. That’s not the point. People like Berman and marcotte completely lost the plot when the didn’t call Obama’s political consultants on their advice to Downticket democrats last year. It was a joke. Very few of them even acknowledged reproductive issues just so they could grab the evangelical vote. It’s cognitive dissonance at it’s finest.

  12. Weeeeeeoooooooeeeee!:

    If NOW isn’t visible among feminists in New York, where the hell are they? I mean, they’re not grassroots-visible in D.C. either, having just moved away myself.

    Who they were, apparently, very visible to were the P.U.M.A.s, who supported Clinton during the primaries and still abhor Kim Gandy (and Ellie Smeal, who’s not at NOW, by the way) for having the audacity to ever support Barack Obama.


    Because, of course, voting for a man is an anti-feminist act.

    • The only way to be visible to the people at Jezebel is to wear a “Sarah Palin (or Hillary Clinton, they’re not fussy) is a c—” shirt.

    • They need to fix it

      Voting for a man with no record on choice and with such a small regard for a woman’s accomplishments that he’d sell it as little more than “tea parties” is anti feminist.

      There now it’s factual.

      • Word.

        (Ok, so I’m a MIC/WASP white girl from Pittsburgh. I thought I’d try it on. So sue me)

    • Frenchdoc, Lynette, Violet Socks, Marcia Pappas and I commented. Weigh in!

      abhor Kim Gandy (and Ellie Smeal, who’s not at NOW, by the way) for having the audacity to ever support Barack Obama.

      This is for the Third Wave lurkers:

      The reason we were angry Gandy endorsed Obama is NOW had only endorsed three Presidential candidates or tickets in its history and each one had a woman on it.

      The first was Shirley Chisholm, the second was Walter Mondale/Geraldine Ferraro, the third Carol Moseley Braun and the fourth Barack Obama. Why did she endorse a ticket without a woman for the first time? Gandy could have endorsed the McKinney/Clemente ticket which many PUMAs voted for. If you look at that link’s timeline of NOW, you will see how much it works for women of color as much as white women. Gandy probably endorsed a man for the first time to go against NOW’s unfair reputation as “old, white and racist.”


      1972: NOW endorses Shirley Chisholm, a NOW member, in the democratic primary. Chisholm is the first African American woman to run for President, and NOW’s first presidential endorsement. NOW rarely endorses Presidential candidates.

      1984: NOW makes its second presidential endorsement, supporting women’s rights champion Walter Mondale, former Vice President, in the democratic primary. With NOW’s urging a “Woman VP NOW,” Mondale selects Geraldine Ferraro for Vice President. NOW campaigns nationwide for Mondale/Ferraro.

      2003: NOW endorses Carol Moseley Braun, the second African-American woman to run for U.S. President.

      2008: On September 16, NOW endorsed Barack Obama for president. NOW originally endorsed Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for president during the Democratic Party Primary. Also made known that they would not support Sarah Palin, the running mate of Obama’s Republican counterpart, John McCain.

      • That being the case, no way in hell should now have endorsed anyone in the general but the all woman ticket! WTF was Gandy thinking? Not only are McKinney/Clemente far superior to O/B, there’s a clear tradition here and Obama did nothing to merit breaking that tradition.

        • Exactly. For the same reason so many whites voted for Obama, the get out of racism free card.

          • I like that phrase.

          • Adolph Reed wrote this great column in The Progressive that said many whites voted for him so they could feel good about themselves which is completely self-serving. What about policies, character, record and experience?

          • I completely agree. Without liberal white guilt, he would have lost the primaries. Well, he did lose but was given it anyway. He would not have been gifted with the nomination without that feel good vote.

    • That piece is even more incoherent than Berman’s.

  13. Latifa Lyles

    Thanks everyone for your support! Latifa9:05 PM Jun 21st from web * Name latifalyles
    * Location Washington, DC
    47 Following 183 Followers

    Here a blog claims this is a ‘Palin’ supporter: http://twitpic.com/7x8lq

    • These people are beyond absurd. Pro Obama thus far has meant no repeal of the conscience clause and an anti choice HHS liason who seeks to irradicate abortion but somehow voting for Palin makes someone not a feminist?

      Uh yeah……..Obama’s position on choice is so much more superior to Palin’s on reproduction. NOT.

      • Yeah, and there’s also the little matter of Alito replacing O’Connor and making it all academic anyway. Remember how the Dems filibustered? What an inspiring civics lesson, why it was just like mr. Smith Goes to Washington!

        • Sotomayer is on the record as stating that the government has the right to take the anti choice position and use tax dollars to support that position.

          Using their logic I ought to pillory her and I definitely shouldn’t allow her to wear the title “feminist.”

        • Obama considered voting for Roberts too who’s very pro-life. That should have given Third Wavers second thoughts.

  14. Excellent post RD. Bestest line (for me): it was *us*, the decrepit old farts that were doing system administration, writing web pages in HTML without an editor and knew how to configure an apache server before most of them could even read.

    I like the buttons collection too. I have a few of those!

  15. Here’s a flashback for you:

    • I love that song! I was a paper girl when it was an AM hit. I was one of the first paper girls immediately after the law changed in NY. In fact, that was my first political action–writing to Governor Rockefeller!

    • Thanks for that flashback–I remember it well. I’d forgotten what a strong voice she had. Check out that crocheted top–very risque.

  16. Uh-oh!

    disagrees with Teh Precious:

    President Nicolas Sarkozy lashed out Monday at the practice of wearing the Muslim burqa, insisting the full-body religious gown is a sign of the “debasement” of women and that it won’t be welcome in France.

    If they have buses in France then Mr. Bruni is gonna get thrown under one.

    • I think that already happened when the Obamas snubbed the Sarkozys the last time they were in France.

    • Considering the numbers in France, that’s a somewhat courageous position for Sarkozy.

      • I admit it, Sarko has somewhat won me over. The French election was a HUUUUGE battle in my house and I was unsuccessful in my campaign to get my husband to vote for the fabulous Segolene Royale. But he has turned out better than expected.

    • Whooo! Nee-Co-Lah doesn’t get out much. He should spend a Sunday afternoon at the Trocodero.

    • And nobody ever mentions the fact that women are being attacked (physically) in France for not wearing the hajib! It is not a simple religious freedom issue, it is a physical safety issue. It would be one thing if it were just bigoted officials harassing Muslims, but if they’re trying to prevent attacks on the unveiled by having everyone unveil, that’s something else that needs to be addressed.

      • There is a commission that is to look into doing just that I believe. Changing French law to make all that veiling illegal. Sarkozy took his stand before the commission had ever met though.

    • How could he say that. Everyone knows, according to Obama, that it’s every woman’s right to be oppressed and abused and belittled — aka, wear a burqa. It’s their choice after all.

    • Obama is hoplessly and stupidly PC when it comes to tolerance for women’s debassment by Muslims AND Christians (BTW, I am a religious Christian,but we actually have equal rights in my denomination).

  17. Fab job RD.

    ps: Pro-life is misogny?

    hmmmmm…..a rather odd statement.

    How on earth has the 3rd and 4th wave come up with that one?
    You are soooooo right RD. Let the grown-ups take it from here.

    Pro-life is not misogny.

    Pro-choice is something women fought for.

    It is possible to be both pro-choice and pro-life and be a feminist.

    Birth control solves overpopulation.


    More education about birth control can be a pro-life position.

    As well as a pro-choice position.

    Ask a feminist and you get a straight answer.

    • FYI, we are the 4th wave. We are the antidote to the 3rd wave which was the undertow.

  18. The democrats seem to forget that while a ‘big tent’ is nice, you can only do so much pandering before you start to have a supposedly progressive-leaning party (remember when that was good?) which doesn’t have the courage to stand for *anything*. It’s one thing for the dems to promote differing views within the party, but it’s quite another to become the party of Rick Warren.

  19. St Petersburg Times keeps an Obameter to track Teh One’s broken promises.


  20. lol @ go back to your iPhone. :D. Palm Pre Rules! And thank goodness Lyles lost. Phew!

  21. It probably is time to run a series on abortion. Women that had to have one and why, men who had a girlfriend who had one and why…

    And so forth.

    I really don’t think anyone in the tail end baby boom is shy on that subject.

    Men don’t get abortions do they?

    Men impregnate women, don’t they?

    This is why a discusiion of birth control is in order, and always in order, no matter which century.

    If you don’t believe in abortion then you should be promoting birth control?

    That simple.

    And ummm, how about that pill for men? Did that ever get off the ground? Or not?

    ps: I spelled misogyny wrong!
    Damn RD. What was wrong with that insane statement?

    Pro-Life equals misogyny? Who came up with that one?

  22. Perhaps the source of the Palin supporters/PUMAs support O’Neill theme?

    I am the founder of The Majority United. I campaigned for Terry O’Neill and I am damned proud of that. I supported Sarah Palin and I am damned proud of that too! I am especailly proud that I campaigned for increasing NOW membership since January 2009 because ALL women need to unite and need an unbiased nationalvoice and the old NOW wasn’t cutting it.

    It was the mess the current administration found themselves in that done them in not palin supporters, not ageism, not racism and not politics. It was the membership and finacial loss over the last four years under the Lattifa’s tenure that signaled if she could not bring in members as the VP of membership – she did not deserve promotion for failure.


    • Careful – if the blogstalkers hear that Betty Jean Kling and some PUMAs swung an election their heads will explode.

      BTW – Somebody needs to explain “fair use” to BJK

      Cutting and pasting entire copyrighted works will get you in trouble.

      • I got no editorial comment here, Myiq. It was just info regarding the possible source. Probably wasn’t a Gandy/Lyles smear.

        • BJK posted that this evening – the rumors started Saturday night.

          What’s missing are hard numbers. O’Neill won by 8 votes – that means it could have been just a handful of PUMAs/Palin supporters that joined with a lot of other women.

          But that’s democracy.

          • According to Violet’s sources, though, the convention was run Obamacrat style and two delegations weren’t even seated.

          • Ah, that’s the problem right there. It was democracy. Obama supporters have never seen that before and just don’t like it. /snark

    • I’ve seen a few “damn those sino-Peruvian lesbian PUMAs” from Jezebel types who can’t contain their feelings about older women, but mostly they’re trying to spin it as Palin supporting Republicans have infiltrated our organization! Why anyone thinks Republicans would target NOW for takeover is unclear, why they would support pro-choice candidates if they’re anti-choice zealots is even less clear, so that spin may change before too long, but right now few are making a PUMA/Palin connection, the others are sticking to Hillary supporters don’t object to sexist attacks! That’s not what they stand for! It’s Republicans!

  23. From the above site. I haven’t viewed it in its entirety, the title is what caught my eye.

    • Greta is spot on. Where was NOW? Where was NOW during the primaries and during the general. So far in the last two decades, the only famous women (like on TV) I’ve heard publicly proclaim that they are feminists are Sarah plain and Greta. Go figure. I’ve never hear Nancy Pilosi say she was or Michelle Obama. And I’ve never heard Hillary say it either for that matter. Feminist became on of those key words like Liberal.

      • Hillary declares herself a feminist:

        “NEW YORK — Presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton declared Wednesday that if you look up the word “feminist” in a dictionary, you’ll find her.

        Clinton received the endorsement of the National Organization for Women, a group of half a million members who support feminist candidates for elective office.

        Asked if she viewed herself as a feminist, Clinton said by the standard definition, yes.

        “If you look in the dictionary, the word feminist means someone who believes in equal rights for women in society, in the economy, the political process — generally believes in the equality of women. And I certainly believe in the equality of women,” she said.

        Her response was met with enthusiastic cheers from the crowd………………..”


  24. I heart RD. The devolution of Pandagon is what brought me to TC in the first place.

  25. What’s wrong with the Third Wave. Veronica’s latest:

    Now some might say, “Hey we’re Clinton supporters!” But if you truly supported Hillary Clinton and what she stands for, I can’t see how or why you would trash Barack Obama or vote for McCain.

    Clinton is a politician and politicians sometimes have to get along. We are grassroots activists who can tell the truth. The worst sexism witnessed in the US, the 2008 primary, makes it impossible for any principled Democrat or feminist to ever vote for Obama. The fact that the Third Wave does not believe women Democrats means they have joined the patriarchy hence are not feminists. McCain was a protest vote meaning it has twice as much power as not voting for Obama. I liken PUMA to a battered women’s and men’s group. You just want the abuser out of your life and voting for McCain was the best way to do it.

    Furthermore, I don’t see how trashing Kim Gandy and Ellie Smeal is productive. They came together VERY early in the primary race to endorse Clinton. Again, far earlier than I would have preferred. I wanted to see the endorsement taken to the conference or even announced at the conference so that Clinton would come to our conference.

    Gandy and Smeal’s early endorsement reflected their extreme faith in Clinton’s commitment to feminism as many of us have. Again after the worst sexism ever witnessed in the US no feminist should support Obama. The fact Third Wavers don’t believe us means they are not feminists.

    DIfferent topic: Andrew Sullivan and the left so willingly believe the fraud that took place in Iran proving that if PUMAs were mostly men they would have believed us right away.

    • “Again after the worst sexism ever witnessed in the US no feminist should support Obama.”


      he is from the tail end Bboom, too.

    • Are they too stupid to know the election is over? Seriously, wtf is that old warmed over junk?

  26. Haven’t read it yet, but the title just kind of struck me:


    “President Obama Acknowledges Fatherhood Begins at Conception.”

    • I wonder why Obama said:

      “…we need fathers to step up, to realize that their job does not end at conception”

      It just seems like an odd choice of words.

  27. Ugh, they’re so disingenuous. Before, Clinton was a vile evil war mongering monster and rac ist. Now it’s “what she stands for”? You’re so right. We’re not groupies. Clinton is a party loyalist. She said in her speech, “was it just about me?” No, it wasn’t. She’ll be fine. The rest of us have a hell of a lot more to lose by normalizing and rewarding misogyny. It worked, and now open season on women is their default position because they think it’s effective and they don’t risk losing anything.

    • That was supposed to nest under donnadarko’s comment

      • Hello. Another thing is politicians and operatives don’t take anything personally because they know politics is a dirty game. Grassroots activists work from the heart and soul.

  28. In response to my inquiry about who the voters at the NOW conference were, Violet Socks responds:

    To attend the conference, you have to have been a NOW member for at least three months. And to vote in the conference, you have to be not only a member (naturally), but also a delegate from your chapter. There are a limited number of delegate slots, and the delegates are chosen by the chapter presidents. And once you get to the conference, you have to be credentialed, a byzantine process involving picture IDs, membership records, sign-offs, etc.

    It is not possible for some alien group of infiltrators to just show up and take over the conference.

    • All that means is that the anti-choice Republicans have been plotting this takeover a lot longer than we ever imagined. 😉

      Seriously, after everything that happened last year, it didn’t cross anyone’s mind that there would be a lot of royally pissed off feminists ready to rumble? That maybe “c—” t-shirts weren’t what they fought for and they wanted to see their organization take more of a stand against this crap instead of standing idly by?


  29. All that means is that the anti-choice Republicans have been plotting this takeover a lot longer than we ever imagined.

    I know I’ve been an Republican mole since I was eight.

  30. Obama: “The Freedom of Choice Act will be my first priority when I am elected.”

    After election: “The Freedom of Choice Act is not a priority.”

    ’nuff said.

    I am really tired of this ageist crap–it shows such a lack of respect and awareness of history. Yea, they just invented the wheel. Enjoy your hubris while it lasts, because life has a way of kicking everyone in the head to teach humility.

  31. Finally, some justice for feminism. Terry O’Neill’s election is a victory for all of us, especially the younger generation of Third Wavers – though they are too naive & lovesick (with themselves & Teh One) to realize it now.

    • still, given the ESP mind-reading lame rumor-mongering sore loserism among that faction, I am totally gloating!!!!

      • They would have blamed “Palin supporters,” “Republicans” i.e. racists if Obama lost too.

        • And they still will if The Precious loses in ’12. We constantly have to prove we’re worthy of Obama, meanwhile the entire Democratic Party is held to no standard at all. We owe them our votes, they owe us nothing.

  32. If NOW hadn’t lost so many member under Lyles “leadership”, it probably would have been a rout.

    • I think that is what has gotten swiftly swept under the rug in the Lyles followers’ and media’s rush to fan the age, class and race wars. Violet and Allegre have the hard numbers — a 40% decline in membership while Lyles was VP of Membership.

      Also, the criticism of the hip young things was to impugn O’Neill’s lack of technological prowess by pointing out how badly designed NOW’s website it. True, it’s not great, but they fail to notice that it’s been under Gandy and Lyles purview for the past 4-8 years. It seems that the fact that Lyles is on Facebook! and Twitter! didn’t work so well at attracting all those tech-savvy grrrls to the cause.

  33. I have to say if she’s not a feminist, why does she care to do this:

    @AkGovSarahPalin Tomorrow I expand Council to end domestic violence, sex abuse, exploitation. AK’s rates- too high; victims must be empowered to lv situation

    I mean, I thought feminists cared about these issues and she certainly seems to. By God, she plays a feminist damned good.

  34. Go back to your iPhone and let the grown ups take it from here.

    OMG. Now that’s a b*tch slap…..

  35. Time will tell if NOW can become relevant to women again. They apparently have no institutional memory. I have written on probably 10 requests for money that I will no longer support them due to their impotence regarding Democratic misogyny in the last election and that they should remove me from their mailing list. I have told them in probably 5 phone requests that I no longer support them and to take me off their mailing list. And still they continue to mail me requests for money and call as if they don’t speak English or something. I checked their web site the day Judge Sotomayor was nominated and they had that days court decision on Prop 8 boldly on top of their web page.

    • Think of how many PUMAs they heard from just like you and Lyles oversaw membership and its steep decline. Under O’Neill from 2001-2005, membership INCREASED. PUMAs did not cancel their memberships because of the anthrax attacks or the recession which is their explanation for the decline in membership. The only way Gandy could have endorsed her is if she thought our letters about misogyny were lies/the Failbot narrative.

      They/Failbots are sore losers making everything about image and race:


  36. Damn…this has been one of the best blogs and responses I’ve read in a long time!!!
    Riverdaughter, you do know how to stir the pot!! I love you, and all you do!!

  37. I agree abortion is a big issue. One I’m not ready to abandon, but I think we won’t ever really win that one until women like Amanda understand women who are pregnant without choice owe it all to pornography and the idea of male entitlement to women’s bodies it promotes. Amanda has posted about her use of pornography so I think she’d be the last person to understand feminist principles.

  38. Wow! Great descriptive prose, Riverdaughter! Love the ‘young cool facebook twitter’ chick vs ‘old uncool saggy tits’ broad! Thank Zeus, Terry won over the glossy cool tweetering gal who’d probably be a clone of Kimmy-for-Obamyopia any way!
    Way to go, girl! Let’s see some action, NOW!

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