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You don’t have to be stupid to be ignorant.

minervaSteven, a friend who is ex-military, and a heavy equipment mechanic, said to me this morning at breakfast,

“You don’t have to be stupid to be ignorant.”

Booman’s slight of dakinkat is a case in point.

Booman is not stupid. myiq notes that Booman can be sharp, but Booman is about as sharp as a bag of oranges on this issue.

If he was only embarassing himself with his naive assertion about the incorruptibility of ACORN and each and every one of its staffers, then I wouldn’t feel any need to comment, especially because I don’t doubt that the vast majority of ACORN personnel are well-intentioned people doing good works. He chose to use his ignorance as a tool to drag others in the mud, however, so he must be called to account.

Once again, it is a simple matter to demonstrate the intellectual and moral inadequacy of a Booman commentator by simply weighing his case against dakinikat. He makes the salacious claims, so the burden of proof falls on him. Please read dakinikat’s post and read his response to her post, especially the comments section.

Unraveling the Greed

Wells Fargo and Acorn

dakinikat ties the facts of the Wells Fargo case to the local history in her home district in New Orleans. Jacobson, in the NYT article, says that Wells Fargo targetted black churches to use their influence as a means of getting their parishoners to take out subprime loans with Wells Fargo. dakinikat relates this data with the meetings with subprime lenders that took place in churches by her home, seminars that tended to be sponsored by ACORN. That they sponsored the seminars does not mean that they knowingly worked against the best interests of the community. dakinikat also notes that ACORN is a bag organization in New Orleans (hardly a surprise, such things are common for both parties). She further notes that convictions of public officials on non-profits (not ACORN representatives) are a matter of public record.

Booman states that dakinikat is not telling the truth on the basis that her data does not conform with his experiences in Philadephia. Further, he rejects the claims of the ACORN 8 as right wing talking points.

The status of the claims of the ACORN 8 are open. Booman appears certain that they have no merit. He might be right. ACORN employees have been convicted and indicted, however, which suggests that complaints against ACORN can be more than right wing talking points, despite Booman’s idealizations. Perhaps they faced Republican judges.

It is worth noting that the head of ACORN is right when he notes that the number of cases against ACORN, and the number of convictions that have stemmed therefrom, are relatively small when one considers at the size of the organization. It is also important, as noted earlier, to not judge the many by the conduct of the few.

Booman appears comfortable with judging the conduct of the many by the conduct of the few. In doing so, he is employing the logical fallacy of generalizing from the particular. Then, on the basis of this fallacy, he proceeds to insult someone who is using her training to fight for the very same lending practises that he lauds ACORN for promoting.

For Booman to be right, we have to accept his assertion that ACORN and its employees are incorruptible, that their behavior is lock-step across each and every community that they operate in, that the ACORN sponsored church events with home loan lenders in dakinikat’s home district were not of the type propagated by Wells Fargo, and that the finance student who is working to fight against lending practises that exploit the poor is a liar and an agent for the Republican agenda.

ACORN employees have proven to be corruptible. dakinikat’s conference presentations are peer-reviewed, so they pass the truth test. In these publications she’s argued for regulation of said industries, which means she is arguing against the Republican agenda. It’s not unreasonable to assume that at least one of the home lending meetings involved a subprime mortgage lender. The only point that remains in Booman’s favor is the question of the role of ACORN in these loan meetings. It can be quickly dismissed, if we accept that ACORN would have worked with the lenders that offered the best deals for their constituents, even if these were necessarily subprime. They are, after all, only human.

Booman’s case fails on the balance of probabilities. His assertions about ACORN’s purity are empirically false, practically naive, and only have their force via a logical fallacy. His accusation about the talking points is non-sensical, given her academic presentations. That these claims found his assertion that she is not to be trusted, indicate that his judgment about her truthfulness and intellectual adequacy is not trustworthy. His wrongness about her truthfulness does not make him a liar, but that he dirties her name based on such a pathetic claim means he is a scoundrel.

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100 Responses

  1. ROFLOLPMFOTF!

  2. exelent post

  3. You say “fuck-you Booman” so much nicer than I do.

  4. ACORN’s *employees* have proven to be corruptible?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/us/16acorn.html

    • That’s the ACORN 8 that I’ve now been total is a right wing meme because Glenn Beck picked up on it a few weeks ago. Wow, the NY TIMES must be printing right wing MEMES too!!!

      Quick! Check for Rush Limbaugh’s name in the editorial banner!

      • Golly, I guess we’d better not examine SEIU’s ties to Obama, or the Tides Foundation, or anything. Wouldn’t want to be further accused of being a right wingnut who can’t do research on our own, and only spout talking points, right.?

        • I was just told this:

          I’d have to make myself intentionally stupid to not see the whole piece in racial frames, especially since the whole thing was written in the context of a black man running for president and having his supporters accuse the other side of racism.

          Unbelievable, I have to prepare myself to have everything viewed as potential, in-between-the-lines-racism now. I have to crawl into the mind of some one who see things in racial frames and say, whoa, what kind of jackass racist thing will they read into this.

          Unfuggin’ believable …

          It’s the thought police!!!

          • Doesn’t anybody else see the irony of somebody called “Booman” accusing other people of being racist?

          • dakinikat,

            It is the panopticon writ large (Foucault). People are most successfully imprisoned when you can get them to surveil their own thoughts and behaviors. In other words, they are not aware, but they are the agents of BIg Brother.

            Also, and to invoke Edward Said again, “If power is your tool of analysis, you will see power everywhere.”

            or,

            If your only tool is a hammer, you see every problem as a nail.

            s

          • The really odd part of this is that if any group in this whole crazy campaign season has been really racist, it’s the white liberal supporters of Obama and the US media.

            They seem to give him a pass on things that would have been huge problems for any other candidate/president. I can only put that down to their racism in that they don’t think he can do better.

            It’s the soft bigotry of low expectations writ large. Seems to me that some part of race understanding took a step backward.

            Does that make any sense at all?

          • Ralph, ever since Obama made his “popeye’s,” “cousin pookie,” comments, I’ve seen and heard white Obots using the get out of jail card where they think they can say anything and it’s okay. And as far as what they’ve said to and about Latinos and Asians…..

          • Seriously. That’s a real shame. It anyone should not have a get of of jail free card, it’s those wankers.

            To me it’s pure racism to expect more or less from someone due to their skin tone. The news media seem to be amazed that Obama can read a teleprompter.

          • Steve nail it. This is what happened to Hillery. After the smears she had to watch every word lest the sentences be parsed as rac*st.

          • The race hypocrisy has pissed me off to no end.

            I’ve always considered the Obama group to be racist. I never understood (logically) why the Clintons got Obama/Axelrove-racism projected onto them.
            But I suppose in the realm of propaganda, it makes sense:

            Money, marketing, and mob manipulated mania lets Oba-racists and misogynists create the ultimate fallacy.

            I never thought that Clinton supporters should be on the defensive for false racism attacks by actual perpetrators! I’ve always felt that it was Obama’s people that were either ignoring minorities (women, latinos, asians, blacks), while courting white money/connections in Silicon Valley and Southern California and East Coast or they were manipulating and co-opting minorities (once their minions became important to them)

            I think the Black Agenda Report is onto Obama Inc. co-opting of minorities.

            Dakinikat, I’m sorry that you have had to endure such aggression and repression from racist hypocrites & I’m grateful for your bravery!

            Grumble.

            Thanks for the thread Steven!

      • They did endorse Hillary, so they are rac ists at the NYT.

        • Why are you surprised? booman justified the blogosphere’s thuggery on grounds that they “knew” Obama was entitled to the nomination based on some super sektit mystical belief system divorced from the actual procedures. It’s incumbent on everyone to figure out what delusions are in their heads and accomodate ourselves to them.

    • If the ACORN article is factual (it is the NYT) how many of the 147 affiliates were involved in home loan counseling?

      • Why? Dale Rathke’s embezzlement is more than a rumor, which makes corruption from the top down.
        Even the spinners of stories recognize that much. I don’t think we’re supposed to link to them, but, Google Peter Dreier ACORN and you’ll find HuffPo’s sympathetic piece on the subject. Of note is the fact that he accepts the embezzlement as fact. However he does go to great lengths to distance the organization from any taint.

  5. If you don’t mind a little constructive criticism, on a Communicating With Obots scale this is full of fail. First off, a visual presentation is always preferable. You need to put down the microphone and roam around the state using a singsong cadance as if you were doing an infomercial. More personal that way. Second, you used logic. Yeah. Don’t do that. Logic is out, behavioral science is in. Suspend the logic in favor of feel good blather and just randomly repeat that whatever we do, we need change.

    • S,

      Duly noted. 😉

      s

    • Your criticism is always constructive, Seriously. And funny too.

    • If you used a certain search engine while frowning could you be said to Yahoo Seriously? (Sorry, I been ER bad sick lately).
      Cognitive dissonance on the O-bot part?

  6. Here’s where they read race into everything I say and call me names because I wear glasses and have scary girl parts and try to reason with them

    http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/6/6/111359/3577

    • (stunned) What the FUCK is going on over there? That “what you never said” comment is especially insultingly ludicrous.

  7. Remember when Booman sent threatening e-mails to Jerelyn and Taylor Marsh telling them if they didn’t get on board the Obama train, they would be ostracized from the left blogs?

    LOL!

    • That explains Chuckles Lemos’ conversion to Koolaid.

      That, and the fact that the majority of PUMAS have (( o Y o ))

    • It’s a good thing I don’t have a blog then. I totally would have laughed had I gotten something like that. Who the hell do they think they are and why the hell do they think that their ostracism would matter one whit?

      It sounds positively juvenile. It’s the equivalent of saying “If you don’t do what we want, we won’t let you sit at our lunch table” How friggin’ high school.

      • Exactly my point.

      • That’s what I thought, too.

        I’ve never read Booman–didn’t even know who he was–couldn’t have cared less—but after reading that thread….

        Booman sounds like he’s 14 years old.

        As a retired high school teacher, I recognize the pouty, pampered virtual chest bumping in his childish rhetoric.

        Obviouly, Booman never had the guts to enlist . A simple drill sergeant would have knocked that crap right out of him within 3 days and made him grow up and behave like a MAN.

        Dakinikat……pay him no mind. He’s a lightweight floundering amongst the heavy-weights like you.

        Good grief…..is Booman’s crap what the Obamanauts considered worthy of reading?

        Sheesh

  8. What I meant by ’embrace our president’ was ‘accept the basic reality that Obama is our president.’

    Obama is our President? What happened to that Bush guy?

  9. This song was written for Booman:

    “I’m going off the rails on a crazy train.”

  10. wow, steve, hope I’m always on your side! brilliant!

  11. Joseph Cannon:

    Can we compare the disgusting tactics of Obama’s supporters to the statements made by Hillary’s supporters? Sure — but only in the sense that you might compare the Nazi war machine to the Gustav Mahler Appreciation Society. You can compare anything to anything else. In this case, the comparison reveals the truly odious nature of the Obama movement.

    As long as I live, I will never forget the stench.

    • Now compare that to this from Booman:

      The Stoopid should not attempt to reason. What I meant by ’embrace our president’ was ‘accept the basic reality that Obama is our president.’ I did not mean ‘grab his ass and shove your tongue down his throat.’ When I said that I would have had difficulty embracing Hillary as our president, I didn’t mean that I couldn’t wrap my arms around her, I meant that I had some degree of sympathy for the PUMA’s because I could imagine (a little bit) how they feel.

      This is a stoopid thread.

      • Booman is a stoopid ass.

      • Is he a moron? I’ve excepted that Obama is President. It doesn’t mean I’m going to pick up pom poms for him.

        Listen, if Booman wants to be on the cheerleading squad so he can sit at that special progressive lunch table that’s his business. I don’t need his advice though and I daresay any of the other PUMAs do either.

        The problem they seem to be having post election is that we have moved on, just not in the direction they were hoping. We saw what they represented this cycle, and decided we aren’t coming back. It’s time for them to deal with the reality. There are political consequences to name calling and allowing namecalling Booman. Deal with it. We have.

    • drink to that.

  12. Dr. BB,

    I suppose we can take this as evidence of

    “You can compare anything to anything else. In this case, the comparison reveals the truly odious nature of the Obama movement.”

    😉
    s

  13. Booman Tribune is a fan site just like DK.

    • A charter member of the Obama Fan Base (OFB) I do believe.

    • Yeah, except with like three posters. I remember hearing about them and hoping they’d be better than dk, but there were about 2 posts a day, usually debating whether they were a splinter movement hostile to the suckiness of dk or a friendly proliferation addition. Compelling stuff. LOL

      • They usually get about 3-5 comments on a post. On the one attacking us, they got 55.

        • Yep, they’d be lucky to break 5 comments on their 2 daily posts, and 3 would be from Booman. It was not a lively place.

  14. I am just catching up on this story and I am absolutely livid about Booman’s characterization of Daki. I cannot even see straight I am so angry.

    • He’s a loser. Just trying to get a few more hits on his little bitty blog.

      • Loser appears to be putting it kindly.

      • Then I guess I should try to calm down. It’s not like he matters and its not like I should care what he thinks. Clearly, if he has to smear Daki that must mean she is on to something. It is just that when I see someone I respect so much being smeared, the protective instinct goes up and I just see red.
        I am just now catching up to all this.
        Great post, Steven!

  15. This is a good post Steven.

  16. My position is that if you mischarecterize broad swaths of people simply because you disagree with them, you lose credibility.

    I really could care less what Booman says. He has no credibility with me. None whatsover.

    Dakini,

    I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it either. Instead I’d send him a bottle of Windex for when he posts his next invective so he can clean the spittle off his computer screen. If what I read over at Joe Cannon’s blog is the commentary at his site I’d say him and his cheerleaders are unhinged and that would be putting it kindly.

    • I think it’s the comments at kos.

      • Wherever those comments came from, it truly appears to be coming from deranged individuals. The Obama movement appears to be the equivalent of a bowel movement. Why in the world would I want to associate with people who acted like that or be involved in a movement that acted like that in a public domain(not that it would be appropriate behavior in private in my opinion)?

        No thanks, I’ll opt out.

  17. This is simply the greatest couple of posts and bit of bother. I’m sitting here with popcorn watching it all. I wouldn’t want to be Boohooman right now. 🙂

    I love you guys.

  18. Okay, I just had to post ONE more thing on that one friggin’ thread that frosted my cupcakes:

    Booman
    I think her campaign put Jesse Helms to shame. Do you think Jesse Helms was a racist?

    Her campaign was even worse that I thought if she aroused all that hatred unintentionally.

    wtf do you call that?

    • What a total f*ckwad. That’s so insane and over the top there’s really no response. It’s straightjacket time for mr. boo f*ckwad man. Can I say that. 🙂

    • Yeah, Jesse Helms doesn’t seem to produce the same kind of instinctive recoil in Booman that Hill does. Jesse has some redeeming qualities for Boo. LOL

      • But aside from being a lunatic, Booman does bring up an interesting point. Suppose there are people out there who feel a great deal of irrational hatred coming their way from one candidate’s supporters. Suppose someone founded a party dedicated to the hatred of Andrew T. Jenkins. Suppose you are Andrew T. Jenkins. Would you feel any kind of obligation to support this party? Would you feel it was rational to do so? Would you run a gauntlet of burly guys threatening you, Andrew, to go inside and cast your vote to help them?

        Yeah, probably not. So go over to Cannonfire,read the typical crosssection of Obot commenters, and figure out why “I effing hate c—– and they need to die! Who res ain’t gonna stop the man” isn’t something a lot of us are going to sign up for. And you know what, maybe we are subhuman and maybe we do need to learn our places, but what can I tell you, we got up pity and have a hard time not thinking of ourselves as human. And as long as we persist in that delusion, we’re not
        gonna feel like we owe our votes to promote
        sociopathology. Go ()$&ing figure. To put it in terms you can understand, you’re like David Duke demanding votes from Jesse Jackson. If your hate movement can’t make it without us, that’s your own damn problem. We don’t owe you a damn thing.

    • The hatred aroused has been and continues to be on the Obot side, and that hatred is misogyny. Pretending to see racism or being delusional enough to see racism as mentioned here is just a veil disguising their own bigotry towards women. They feel the hate and bigotry and to live with it they project it out in this form.

      Just because Hillary running caused Booman and others to boil over in hatred of women doesn’t mean her campaign was bad. It means Booman and others have failed has human beings. They showed us their character and was ugly.

    • Like I said earlier in the post, I believe that Obama/Axle Inc. is a racist, misogynist co-opting machine that disenfranchises & uses minorities for the advancement of the imperial patrio-lineal oligarchy.

      Their assertions are BS not meant for true policy-watchers but to deceive every-day folks, who don’t have the time or energy to keep up with all the propaganda.


      “Her campaign was even worse that I thought if she aroused all that hatred unintentionally.”

      This is a morally/logically-dead/dangerous equivilent to:

      **Girl was wearing a dress I thought was sexy and so she deserved being attacked due to her thoughtless un-knowing that I would be provoked (by my uncontrollable/insecure/helpless/sexy-chick-basing desire) to “hate fuck” her.**

      The last term was taken from an essay I read at HotAir, regarding A Playboy essay on conservative women A-holes would like to ….[ um, “hate fuck?” or rape??? you tell me]

      Basically, these assertions are (at best) lies–

      and at worst, allowances/apologies for intellectual (& who knows how far) violence.

      F–k their machinations!!

      Thanks Dakinikat and TC for continued bravery!

      • You know, Obama has said that his role is to fight smears of Islam, considering how Muslims are human beings and many live in the US, I wonder if he’d have any comment if a national magazine was imagining how fun it would be to rape Muslim men. I’m thinking probably.

    • I was looking at a lot of Youtubes the other day, and at a few old articles, for myiq’s sexist thread and the rewriting of history.

      What I found was a very clear fostering of hatred on the part of the Obama camp.

      It was part of the Hillary runs a negative campaign meme, and started around January with Obama’s attack on Hillary as being a corparatist. It replaced the Hillary is not likeable/unelectable/has too many negatives approach.

      Again and again I found the words hate and hating, in the sense of Hillary arousing hatred against Obama being repeated. Hillary had to stop the attacks ( and drop out of the race). This escalated around about the Rev. Wright scandal, and got even worse in Pennsylvania.

      A lot of Obama supporters bought into this. But there were also a number of his close campaigners who did so too. There were JJr-“Hillary cried no tears for Katrina”; Samantha Powers-“Hillary is a monster”; Donna Brazile “stop the hating”.

      • The term is demonization.

        That was what really caught me off guard last year – the venom and hatred of the Obots. We were supposedly on the same team and just trying to figure out who would be our mutual captain.

        They treated it like it was a deathmatch.

        • I think they were manipulated into treating it like a death match. It was done thru videos and music, radio stations and tv, house parties and slogans, facebook and emails.

          It was part of the behaviorist approach towards building up electoral momentum. (behaviorist meaning everyone else does it/believes it so you should too.)

          But it was also a tactic to avoid any rational discussion of Obama’s curriculum. And a lot of people bought it, they found it fun.

        • Yes. And it is Saul Alinsky’s number one tactic.

          Pick your target, and make it very personal, whether it’s true or not, to demonize the opposition for your own personal gain.

          Knew exactly what they were doing.

          Anything to win.

      • The “hate” word is interesting. Reminds me of how male lesbian-phobes accuse lesbians of “hating” men. Or how misogynist males accuse feminist women of “hating” men. Worded that way, the bigots can act like they object to women who hate — which of course is a distraction, so no one realizes the men are frightened and feel insecure about women who can do without them(men).

        Besides, women are supposed to be nice loving soft creatures, so accusing a woman of hatred says she’s not a real woman.

        Such tortured logic.

  19. Great Post! Combine this with Cannon’s post and this booman person is so out of his class it is almost sad. Almost.

    And anyone with a brain, or with the ability to read with comprehension knows dakinikat is not a racist. What drivel and an excellent example of this pathetic person’s repeated calumnies.

    You may not have to be stupid to be ignorant. But sometimes, in some cases, people really are. Stupid nasty little twits with their misognyny hanging out for all the world to see.

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