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We Didn’t Start The Fire


This particular passage in Part 1 of Eriposte’s interview with Eric Boehlert at The Left Coaster caught my eye:

“Irrational loyalties,” was how one prominent blogger described the situation from the 2008 primary season. That blogger was taking a swipe at both camps, but I think the larger point stands. I’m still not sure why the debate from the spring of 2008 generated into what it did, and I’m not sure many bloggers today really want to look back and search for answers to that question. I don’t think there’s any question that the blogosphere, at least for a while there, became unrecognizable in terms of walking away from the high intellectual standards it had set for itself in previous years. Obviously, the campaign season was going to create various splits since the blogosphere was not going to automatically coalesce around one candidate. And as I mentioned in the book during 2007, the split was between Edwards, Obama and Clinton and the debates online were mostly rational and earnest and intelligent. But then Edwards got out of the race in January, 2008, and pretty much all hell broke loose right after that and the old blog rules sorta went out the window. Today, online backers of Obama and Clinton say the other was to blame (i.e. they started it.) (emphasis added)

There is no question who is to blame and the evidence is there in the posts and comment threads to prove it. It was the Obots that started it.

I’m not saying that no Hillary supporter ever said anything outrageous and inappropriate about Obama, nor am I claiming that no one on our side ever flamed anyone on theirs. In fact, I’m proud to say I charcoaled more Obot asshats than I can remember. But when I did I was shooting back.

Comb through the archives of Cheetoville and the other “A” list blogs (if you have a strong enough stomach) and you’ll find that Hillary supporters in the blogosphere were badly outnumbered from the beginning. But it wasn’t just numbers – the viciousness of the Obots was (and still is) stunning.

I served in the army and spent a good part of my adult life in male-dominated occupations, so suffice it to say I have heard some pretty salty language before. I’ve also worked several jobs that involved dealing with violence and I have had guns pointed at me more than once and I’m not easily intimidated, especially not by anonymous strangers over the internet.

I have been arguing politics since I was a teenager but I never saw the kind of deranged attacks I saw last year. I was blown away.  Any criticism of Obama (or defense of Hillary) elicited insulting tirades and graphic rants from total strangers. I’m not talking about a single troll in a comment thread, I’m talking about pack attacks that went on without interference from moderators.

Over at Cannonfire Joseph Cannon has documented some of the hateful things that were said about Hillary at Cheetoville. The stuff they said about her supporters was as bad or worse. That wasn’t the only place where things were unhinged. I still recall one comment made by a wonktard that compared the vaginas of PUMA women to pulling apart a grilled cheese sandwich.  That’s actually  one of the less-graphic things I recall, but I won’t repeat the really bad ones.

The Confluence was founded as a refuge for Hillary supporters from the unhinged attacks of Obamanation. I’m not aware of any blogs that were started to give the Obots a safe place to meet and talk, but I am aware of several stalker blogs founded for the purpose of harassing and annoying PUMAs.

At it’s core, PUMA is a coalition of the refugees from the purging of Left Blogistan. Oh sure, there have been some loons and nutjobs running around calling themselves PUMAs but the vast majority of PUMAs are liberal Democrats-in-exile. (I suspect that many of the ones taking the PUMA name in vain are Obot ratfucker sockpuppets)

The idea that PUMA was a GOP operation is absurd.  It has it’s roots in the Obot memes that Hillary was really a Republican and was trying to kneecap Obama so that McCain would win.  Later they just shifted that lie over to PUMA.

I’m not saying that the GOP didn’t try to take advantage of the split in the Democratic party caused by Obama’s divisive campaign strategy.  But to believe that PUMA was a GOP group you would have to believe that the Republicans recruited PUMA leaders like Riverdaughter out of high school and had them spend decades building up liberal cover resumes, waiting for the opportunity to disrupt the Democratic party.

“Agent K, we have new orders.  We want you to go online to this place called “Dailykos” and other progressive “blogs” and register as “Goldberry.”  Pose as a liberal and begin posting on a daily basis, advocating things like universal health care, gay marriage and protecting a women’s right to choose.  Support liberal Democratic candidates too.  Win their trust, and we’ll let you know when it’s time to betray them.  By the way, keep your day job because you’re not getting paid for any of this”

The Obots can try to rewrite history, but we were there and we remember. They deserve the blame, as do all the bloggers who stood by and silently watched it happen. In case they forget, I plan to stick around and remind them.

255 Responses

  1. Great post once again, myiq.

    Don’t let them rewrite this awful history.

  2. Very well said, myiq.

    (…still itching to fry Obots whenever they raise their microcephalic heads from their sippy cups.)

    But all of us PUMAs would rather have a real Dem in the WH than tast the fleeting savoriness of We Told You So.

  3. Thank-you for this post. This particularly registered with me:

    I have been arguing politics since I was a teenager but I never saw the kind of deranged attacks I saw last year. I was blown away. Any criticism of Obama (or defense of Hillary) elicited insulting tirades and graphic rants from total strangers. I’m not talking about a single troll in a comment thread, I’m talking about pack attacks that went on without interference from moderators.
    I was not a blog visitor until the election. I had no longstanding appreciation of DailyKos, HuffPo, TLC, etc. When I went to those sites (as recommended by friends) to learn about the candidates, I was deeply shocked and offended by the hateful, misogynistic trash that was spewed about Hillary Clinton. And I watched as the hate rolled right over onto Sarah Palin.

    I have lost so much respect for the DNC, the superdelegates, the dem establishment, the media, and all these bloggers that it feels like there is a black hole in my personal universe.

    The behaviors I have witnessed go beyond reprehensible. I doubt I will ever think of myself as a true lefty or Democrat again.

    I am waiting for integrity to rise again in this country. The Confluence has it, and has been my refuge. Hillary Clinton has it, obviously, and I think Palin does, too. It’s a very short list these days.

    • Don’t you know Palin is an idiot /snark.

      Apparently saying there are 57 states isn’t as moronic as a spliced interview by Katie Couric/rolling my eyes.

      I wonder how many of the yahoos are confused and think Fey is Palin.

    • My sentiments exactly! I guess the second-preferred (after Gov. Blag) of the Chicago machine isn’t the kind of candidate I’d ever fall for. Just think if Jesse Jackson had been able to attend the anti-war rally (Obama was a stand-in)…history would have been changed. Axelrod wouldn’t have been able to stage a re-enactment with audience and have it played on You-Tube to portray Obama as the “progressive.” So many ignorant people tell me that Obama was their candidate over Hillary because he voted against the War. As if he was even in the Senate to vote, and when he did comment, he said that he would have voted the same as the rest of them.

  4. So what are we going to do about it? A member of my family told me that I am going to give myself a stroke if I don’t let go. It still hurt because it is not about a person, rather it the whole set of principals and ideas butchered infront of your eyes. people who did it are the ones you spent years listen to and read their crap thinking they are capable of believing and telling the right thing

    • “So what are we going to do about it?”

      I don’t know about you but I plan to blog.

      It’s therapy for me.

    • How is anyone supposed to get over it when you are reminded by his idiots of what an arrogant fool he is? Wolfe’s book about bobo and his Illusions that Bill Clinton was telling lies about him just brought back the memories.
      Note to Obama: You never voted against the Iraq war and if you were in the senate, you would have voted the same way as Hillary did.
      What is worse are the things Bambi said about Hillary. I think O really believed that everyone was out to get him. He called her a racist and sent out a memo to his media friends and yet he had the nerve of complaining or not accepting an apology for something she didn’t even do. There is something totally wrong with this man. I swear, I don’t think Obama thinks he did anything wrong during the primary.

      • Every vile thing he accused Hillary of being was exactly what he was inside himself.

        Every vile action he attributed to Hillary was what he or his team was doing.

        In short, he was a perpetrator claiming to be a victim.

        • I was thinking of a post documenting the worst of the attacks on Hillary.

          The RFK smear, the darkened photo, the war room video, damn there were so many.

        • And the bobo is a muslim smear. It is amazing that after he “won” the GE, he remembered his muslim roots. Then it was okay to call him by his middle name. In what Universe is calling someone by their middle name racist?

        • I loved that article about how Obama’s team was working overtime spreading oh I think it was the Bosnia smear on a train and the train would pull into each station and Joe Hypocrite would sling some bs decrying old politics and talking about hope and change. LOL

        • MyIQ:

          Please do it. You’ll do a great job and having a concise summary of it all is so important. The information has to be out there. People like us need to see it and remember it.

          And when the kool-aid wears off and the infatuated begin to see reality, your words will be priceless.

        • Projection is the psychological term. I never felt the man was whole.
          It’s too bad he was abandoned by his father and seems to feel
          that his mother abandoned him, too.

  5. I didn’t pay much attention to Obama (or any Dem candidates) prior to Iowa. I’m from California and the nomination is either sewed up or reduced to a 2-person race by the time we have our primary. I had a tentative list of my preferences, with Gore first (if he joined the race) then Edwards, Dodd, Biden and Hillary. My biggest concern with Hillary was recycling the 90’s CDS hatefest (which came true but not the way I expected)

    By the time I took a good look at Obama I was expecting to be impressed because of the way the Obots were raving about him.

    Instead I felt like Elaine Benis after seeing The English Patient. All I saw was an empty suit, or as Gertrude Stein said, “There’s no there there”

    But what really turned me off were his followers.

    • After Obama’s dismal performance in the first debate, I wrote him off immediately. Until then, I was uncommitted and still basically was. By the second debate it was so clear that Hillary was superior in just about every manner that it seemed a no brainer.

      • me too the debates what did it for me. I kept wondering when I heard the tv people disscusing them did they see the same one I saw? what the heck are they talking about

        • My first impression of Obama was that he needed more experience – but I thought he’s be a great VP candidate which would set him up to run in 2016

          Then I met his followers.

          Then I learned more about him

          Nobama – keep the change

        • yeah, i figured him for potential veep and thought that was probably what he was really angling for

        • I know. Listening to the media analysts after each debate made me loony. I didn’t get to watch them live from down here in Oz but read word for word transcripts. I kept saying the same thing: “which friggin debate were you dipshits watching?”

        • Don’t forget that the corporate media shills had Shrub winning over
          Gore in the debates. Whomever they pick is NOT going to change much at

        • HIllary spoke up though. She made a good joke about
          the ” pillow”. She is charming and disarming cause Hillary is so smart.
          Her 3 am ad will be taught in Poli Sci classes in 2020.
          I do feel at least a bit grounded knowing Hillary is on the watch as SOS.
          The only adult that I can see in this administration.

    • Hillary won me over so hard in the first debate that I went and read Living History. I was totally sold.

  6. I’m glad you will be around to keep our history alive, miq2.

    We can’t let this die…. no matter how much they try to discount what was done to us.

    If the PUMAsphere does nothing more than to keep this story alivve, it will have been worth the trouble. (And of course, we are doing much more than that!)

  7. “Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.” Romans 12:20

    Keep playing the role of victim.

    • “I won’t be wronged. I won’t be insulted. I won’t be laid a hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. – John Wayne

    • Z,

      I am of Pictish heritage. When the Roman slavers came to our home to take our lands and enslave us, we ate their bodies and we drank their blood.

      Sometimes it is good to turn the other cheek, like Christ, Gandhi, and King. Sometimes it is good to fight fire with fire, i.e. the “an eye for an eye” approach, like we did against the Nazi’s.

      When it comes to our heritage, it is good to remember the ashes from which we were formed. We would be revisionists to do otherwise.

      It is true that the scorched Earth policy of Obamabotdom created victims. They are the ones that submitted to the kool-aid. They are in your tribe.
      We are not victims. Our wills are intact. We are the phoenix and we will feast on our would be predators.


      • That is so true. We are the ones who refused to drink from the poisoned cup. And they hate us because we didn’t succomb like they did. I think it’s even worse for people like Lambert who really did see through Obama, but didn’t have to guts to really become an outlaw from left Blogistan. He couldn’t let go of his dreams of being accepted by the big blogger boys. Same with Chucky, I guess.

        • Dr. BB,

          (I apologize in advance for the hackneyed psychologizing that follows.)

          They remained with the abusively dysfunctional pseudo-family. Did they reward the abusive behavior by remaining within the group? I imagine they hope to change things from within.

          We rejected the abusive coercion. We rejected rewarding abuse.

          It is better to be single (independent), than to be in a bad relationship. Even better is to be among friends that have done the same.


        • I’ve said before that the Obots act like domestic abusers.

          The told us we were worthless and unwanted, then got furious when we left and began stalking us.

        • It’s true.

        • T’is true, myiq.

        • Myiq,

          They weep about how they being abused by the Democrats and yet can not see the delicious irony for those of us that watched the abuse hurled during the primaries.

      • Well put Steven.

      • Well, I’m half Scots–maybe some Pictish blood in there, too, since the Gregarach are said to be descended from Kenneth MacAlpine. The other half’s Tsalagi, and Obots always get me to thinking in terms of scalp shirts.

        • os,

          Greetings from the land of the Niitsítapi (though to be fair, there are other claimants, such as the woodland cree – Treaty 8).

          Given your words, we are kin in matter and spirit.


    • you know, quoting fiction always impresses me … any original thoughts?

      • dakinikat,

        I sense that my deity and I are sharing the same smile at your comment, which has all sorts of delicious connotations, knowing you are an atheist!



      • *snerk* I love this.

    • It’s not hard when you keep playing the role of thugs.

    • No need to “play the role” as the Obots keep on with the same behavior way after the election.

    • No need to “play the role” as the Obots keep on with the same behavior way after the election.

      Real leaders LIKE to be challenged, not hide behind the blog world as cover. sheesh

  8. Obama was my second choice for half the cycle. It wasn’t until after Edwards dropped out that I started looking at all the inconsistencies and realized that supporting him would be a mistake. I also despised the way the Obots treated people who refused to get behind him. They were positively rabid and there was no way I wanted anything to do with them.

    • Not just the inconsistencies – but I noticed the misquoting and out of context coverage of both HRC and obama… except obama was getting alot of help with his out of context coverage.

  9. Hoisted from the previous thread because I think it’s related to this topic and I have ben doing a lot of thinking about that lately:

    katiebird, on June 2nd, 2009 at 2:34 pm Said:

    Myiq2xu – Off Topic to this post but going back to yesterday’s post….

    Could you post a list of blogs that should be revisted (the way I did The Left Coaster) ?

    I remember some of my old favorites, (Digby, TalkLeft and maybe Atrios) but, I deleted dozens (I should have dragged them into an archive folder) …. Which would you recommend visiting?

    I also think Digby, Atrios are OK. All things considered TL is fine although the attitude of Jeralyn after the primaries still makes my blood boil.

    How about Corrente? They still have Vastleft, one of my all times favorites, Leah and others.

    I don’t know how mydd is now but one of its founders (was it Todd Beeton? I’m drawing a blank and it’s getting late here) was very pro Hillary until the end.

    I’m surprised how many “Left Wing” blogs I’ve abandoned altogether.

    • MyDD is home to Chuckles Lemos, a former PUMA and fulltime asshat.

      Did I ever tell you he’s terrified of women’s boobs?

      (( o Y o ))

      • No way will I go along with having mydd on the blogroll. Not while chucky is posting on the fp.

        • There’s No chance in hell. And if anyone was foolish enough to do it then you could delete it yourself. 🙂

        • I haven’t been on mydd for a very long time. I was just thinking about Todd Beeton (if he’s the one) who was a great Hillary supporter even when all the Big Boiz were asking her to bow out.

          I don’t really know what the place is like now.

        • I thought it was Jerome Armstrong. And he went on vacation for a few weeks and the blog totally fell apart.

        • It was Jerome.

  10. Boehlert’s equivocation on the issue of the breakdown of the progressive blogosphere seems, at least to me, to be more about selling books and maintaining his credibility within the dominant netroots culture than anything else.

    I mean, lets face it, if Boehlert came right out and said that the the Oborg’s actions compared unfavorably to the criminally insane, he (and Media Matters) would become pariahs — he’d be going up against not just Obama’s supporters, but the mainstream media that encouraged and enabled the netroots CDS — and the focus would not have been on the point he wanted to make (about the power/influence of the netroots) but on the “civil war” within the progressive movement.

    • Welcome back Paul, long time no see.

      You’re right, Boehlert has to tread carefully.

      But I don’t.

    • PK: (Do these initials automatically make people smarter?)

      You. Have. Nailed. It!

      Eric Boehlert was very critical of the pro Obama blogs during the primaries because they were suddenly embracing RW talking points against Hillary and were happy when she was savaged by the media. I remember at one conference where he told them that their attitude amounted to “Dems politicians are off limits but do whatever you want with Hillary Clinton”, and that it would come back someday to bite them.

      From all the excerpts I’ve read so far, he has shied away from repeating that criticism.

      • Was EB the one at MM that debunked the “As far as I know” fauxrage?

        I musta linked to and quoted that piece about 20-30 times when I was still at Balloon Juice.

        (for a while Paul and I were the only “Hilltrolls” commenting there – then I left)

        • Yup. That was him.

          He was spectacular during the primaries. I’ve really been underwhelmed from everything I’ve seen about the book so far. I don’t think he names names.

          I have the feeling he falls back on the “both sides” copout, which is really disappointing because he was great.

          I linked to that famous piece on so many blogs that I know where to go and find my comment pointing to the story.

        • Mablue, remember the race between O’Brien and Romney where he hit her hit her hit here and she hung back? And finally she started going after him too and all of a sudden voters were “appalled” by the negative campaign and laid all the blame on her? I hate the “fault on both sides” thing because not only is it not true, it penalizes women candidates who are always held to a double standard on negative attacks. They have to somehow figure out a way to be tough and strong and yet so sweet and positive butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths.

    • Paul, I always enjoy your point of view wherever you post. Please don’t be a stranger here.

      • Agreed. Paul is fantastic.

        • They hated Paul over at Baloney Juice.

          He backed up his arguments with hard data.

          Obots can’t handle data.

          They prefer imaginary numbers.

      • Yes-he’s always been a hero of mine. (ever since I saw him take on all-comers at OpenLeft)

  11. “Listening to the media analysts after each debate made me loony. I didn’t get to watch them live from down here in Oz but read word for word transcripts. I kept saying the same thing: “which friggin debate were you dipshits watching?”’

    I remember when they said Hillary “lost it” during a debate. I didn’t watch it live but when I saw the clip of her “losing it” I couldn’t figure out what they was talking about. She was in complete control.

    The same goes for all the times the Big Dawg supposedly lost his temper.

    • The way Hillary performed in the debates was one of the main reasons I started to get interested in her as a candidate. I couldn’t believe it when I would watch her do really well and then see the bizarre reactions at the Cheeto. I started to realize that I simply can’t trust anything but my own eyes and ears and reactions.

      What was most stunning to me, though, was how people whom I had liked and interacted with for years suddenly morphed into completely different people–sometimes in a matter of a day or two. It was like the invasion of the body snatchers.

      • The biggie for me was the Greatest Speech On Race Evah! in March 08

        I was watching it with one eye while checking the comments at Baloney Juice with the other.

        It was a mediocre speech – nothing like MLK’s “I have a dream” speech. But the comments were so over the top – two different people claimed they were moved to tears just reading the transcript!

        • Yeah, it was like that at DK too. The main things I noticed about the speech was that Obama never committed to anything and he had almost nothing to say about women’s rights. It was always clear to me that he wouldn’t lift a finger to help the African Americans.

        • I remember that one. He disrespected his grandmother to an entire nation. That was the point I realized that he wasn’t simply a mediocre candidate but a cold-hearted jerk with mommy issues. And we didn’t need another 4 years of a president working out his childhood problems on the world stage. Geez, will Americans ever get around to electing grown ups again?

  12. I started off supporting Kucinich. And then Edwards. But honestly, I wasn’t really paying attention until after Edwards dropped out. At that point, I still thought that I’d vote for whoever the Dems nominated.

    Once I started paying attention I was floored with the realization that Obama was nothing more than a scam artist and not the great orator/intellectual/hottie that his followers claimed. It was so painfully obvious that he shouldn’t even be in the race, much less running neck and neck with Clinton who blew him away on all fronts. Then came Obamation’s scorched party campaign of misogyny and hate, sung to the tune of hope and change. It was like living in Bizarro World.

    The Confluence was the only safe harbor I found after I was scrubbed from a non-political board. Yep, over two years of my posts and comments that had nothing to do with politics were disappeared because I (gasp!) called Obama a “Chicago thug.” I will be forever be grateful to Riverdaughter and all the front-pagers and regulars for creating this place and allowing me to stick around.

    Great post, myiq. We will never forget… and we won’t let Obamanation forget either!

  13. I remember the derangement, and I didn’t have to go to any sites beyond TM and later TC to experience it. I know I didn’t see the worst – I admit that I couldn’t have taken it.

    But until most people that I respect see through Obama, I will continue to feel like I’m in a different country than where I grew up. I cringe and do a double take whenever someone credits Obama or the Obama administration as though he were something special – just by breathing (and telepromptorating).

    Thank you Conflucians for the sanity you so generously provide as well as the refuge. Still needed after all these months.

    • I feel the same way. And when I see people like John Aravosis complaining now, I just see red. Who are they to gripe about Obama after they foisted him on us?

  14. I wish WordPress allowed us to have a viewable spam folder.

    If they did I would have preserved all the unhinged comments we have moderated.

    There have easily been thousands of putrid hate-filled rants. We got over 300 during the Wonktard war alone.

    Some of the most vile and disgusting stuff I have ever seen.

    • (nodding) During the Convention, I was deleting 80 an hour for a while – brutal/ugly stuff. Publishing a list of the words we added to our SPAM and Moderation filters would tell a good tale. All those words are there because they showed up so often.

      • Thinking back, I don’t know how we did it. But I know I always had a good feeling knowing we could get rid of them. I think we did a pretty good job too. Maybe that’s why they hate us so much. We never let them harangue us here.

        • Thank you all for keeping such a safe haven for us, it is deeply appreciated.

    • I know my virgin eyes will never bee the same 😉

  15. I first noticed the derangement at Kevin Drum’s blog (at Washington Monthy) – I’d been going there for years but in December or January I noticed that anytime a guy named Frankly0 spoke up swarms of commenters would shout him down.

    At first I didn’t even notice that all those comments had something to do with Hillary…. He NEVER backed down. Just replied with the most impressively calm and detailed explanations of why Hillary wasn’t some sort of lying devil.

    Then, there was the day that Hillary came out with a plan for a moratorium(?) on mortgage payments (I think — it was so long ago, I really don’t remember) aimed at dealing with (even way back then) the rising mortgage defaults.

    OMG – You would have thought she was endorsing the idea of bombing Britain. The violence of the outrage.

    But that Frankly0 guy stood firm talking calmly to anyone who tried to take him on.

    He’s commented here a time or two. I think of him as a hero. I’m sure I would have supported Hillary in any case. But, he was the person who made me realize I HAD to be a Hillary blogger.

    • I remember Frankly0. Did he/she ever comment here?

    • I see frankly0 pop up at Salon fairly often. S/he used to comment on TalkLeft but disappeared (IIRC) when Jeralyn succumbed to the kool aid after the primaries ended. I’ve frequently found myself nodding my head while reading frankly’s comments.

  16. The craziness started before Edwards dropped out of the race. Boehlert it wrong about that. I was at the Cheeto every day for a long long time. Toward the end of the 2007 is when the Obots really started to get nasty as I recall. They didn’t really take control then, but they were already swarming anyone who said anything negative about Obama. But you could still argue with them. You would be called names like “stupid,” and told to go to his website, etc., but they wouldn’t trollrate you off the blog.

    I didn’t really pick a candidate, but I liked Edwards (I’m ashamed to say). But I started to notice how the Hillary supporters were constantly getting attacked. It was pretty ugly. There was a tipping point sometime in January or February ’08, and the Obots just took over and deliberately drove everyone else out.

    • The first great purge at DK was Edwards supporters. Kos took TU status from alot of the Edwards supporters while leaving TU status for some of the flame throwers from the Obama camp. After Edwards dropped out we were expected to choose sides. Those of us who felt Clinton was a better pick were constantly subjected to diaries that basically painted Clinton as the anti Christ. It didn’t matter if it was truthful or not. It wasn’t even limited to the side bar, front page posters were allowed to go open season on Clinton. It was disgusting.

      • Yeah, I remember that.

      • Can someone characterize what Daily Kos is like today? It used to be the
        first place I went online until the Bots took over. When I’ve checked back
        a few time after the election, there doesn’t seem to be much there.
        I hope that karma has been paid, and that the traffic is really down. It was such a disgrace to open political dialog. It really did seem like an army
        of high school boys had been hired by AxelRod to take down all but the true believers.

    • It was when Hillary won NH, I think. That’s when the race-baiting cr*p was unleashed on the cable shows and the blogs backed it up.

      • Yep. Those rac ists denied the Annointed his rightful march to a nomination based on, um, actual votes. Oh and the fact that for the first time in American history a woman won a primary state? Ho hum. Who cares. Nothing next to the miracle of a caucus.

  17. I’ll never forget the day that Geekesque showed up in a diary I was on and started with the thing Jean Shaheen’s husband said about Obama using drugs. Right away Geekesque called it racist and was attacking Hillary for it. Then he put up a diary and it had a million comments right away. It was like a lynch mob.

    Another time I’ll never forget is when we heard about Obama having McClurkin represent him. All the Obots were defending Obama and making excuses for him. It was sickening. That’s when I started to see the writing on the wall. That is also when I knew I couldn’t vote for him.

    • That’s what pushed me over from being ABH. When I saw Obots defending McClurkin, “you don’t understand, this is the central thesis of his campaign, he’s going to bring everyone together! Everyone gets a seat at the table!” right–we call that triangulation and that was supposedly why we had such a problem with Hillary from the beginning. If not that–what?

      • I recall Jeralyn stating that choosing Biden as VP would be a deal-breaker. Then Obama chose him and oh well, nevermind about the deal breaker.

        The Obot reaction to the FISA flip-flop was the same thing. They said Hillary would flip but it was Obama that did. Suddenly it was a genius move.

        • Yeah–Hillary was the b$&@” for making Obama look bad for doing the right thing, when she ebilllly obviously doesn’t mean it. Of course, he doesn’t mean it either, he’s just trying to lull The Man into a false sense of security. Go ahead, The Man, get complacent.

          The Biden thing was odd, though. You’d almost think anyone smart enough to recognize Hillary as the ultraconservative, war mongering root of all evil would have pretty much the same problem with Biden. I guess I’m just missing the key element that would make it rational.

      • and now they are acting like it’s well, who could ever have imagined that he wouldn’t stand up for gay Americans……I feel like saying “uh, were you not paying attention?” Geez, I want to scream at the stupidity of it all.

  18. One thing I remember was the way Obama talking points spread across the blogosphere practically instantaneously.

    Suddenly every Obot was repeating the same things. There was never any “I support Obama but . . .” kinda stuff.

    And no matter how many times you refute their talking points they keep repeating them over and over.

    • They were sending those talking points to all the blogs, and I’m sure that bloggers like Geekesque got them. The same talking points would show up everywhere simultaneously. I’d guess that is still going on in the MSM at least.

      • I was watching the ABC debate in PA on TV and following the comments on 3 different blogs, shifting between open tabs.

        I saw virtually identical comments appear on all three blogs under different names practically simultaneously.

        • When Sarah Palin was named to be McCain’s VP there was about an hour of silence and then suddenly all the Obots were chattering the same talking points about her.

          It was like they had to wait for instructions.

        • Yup, they weren’t ready for the Palin choice. They had to wait for Axelrod to tell them what to say. Sometimes they’d start out saying one thing and then they would all suddenly shift to the new Obama-approved position.

    • Any time you challenged them you were met with BS. After I asked AdamB how we got to universal care with Obama’s plan, I remember being told his plan wasn’t that important because Congress would be changing it.

      Then there was kos who insisted that they were all the same even as many of us were pointing out that their domestic economic positions weren’t the same.

  19. I wasn’t blogging back then, just surfing for info everywhere I could. I noticed right away on all the blogs, especially the mainstream ones, (CNN, ABC, MSNBO, WaPo, Newsweek, etc.) that there was way too much Obama support, and that when challenged it got ugly. It wasn’t just the Cheetopeople, I never went there, it was everywhere. RCP, Slate, Salon, everywhere. The Root and other black-oriented sites went from objective analysis to absolute Obama insanity, and the changeover started in the comments sections, not in the commentary. Black Agenda Report was one of the first havens I found.
    I sent emails to Clinton’s campaign complaining about the obviously coordinated attack and imploring her to get some blog monitors on the stick to fight back. It wasn’t until much later that I found places like TC where I didn’t have to be bothered with Obaloooneys.
    I also noticed how Google stacked the deck searchwise early on. Searches for Obama info brought up waaaay too many positive entries, mostly to his glitzy website, Clinton got you page after page of vitriol.
    And, I was underwhelmed with Obama from the 2004 DNC convention.

    • I remember there was a woman on DK who was African American and was from somewhere in the south and was a lawyer I think. She was a terrific writer. One day she posted a diary about how she couldn’t vote for Obama, he didn’t have the authentic AA experience, etc. She got hundreds of comments. She posted a couple of other diaries like that, and then after Obama won Iowa, she suddenly turned on a dime and started posting pro-Obama diaries. And she was obviously a brilliant, strong woman.

    • I remember on the so-called feminist blogs, whatever they were talking about would have nothing to do with Clinton, Obama, or the election, but the comments would be, like, “We must accept that [whatever it is] is really caused by the kind of sense of entitlement that led Hillary to run for President/the inate evil of politicians like Hillary,” whatever. It was off the wall. So if you wanted to say something about the actual topic, you either had to ignore and tacitly endorse that crap or argue back and get swarmed/banned for going off-topic plus being ebbbillll. LOL It got to be a waste of time real quick.

      • OMG, I think I’m starting to get traumatic flashbacks. I thought I was over it. But just reading people’s comments and thinking back, I don’t know if I’ll ever be completely over it.

        • Don’t feel bad, BB. Even reading all the comments now, I know I will never get over it.
          You all have such interesting insights. And MYIQ, if you could do what KatieBird said… and get that list of blogs to revisit, that would be helpful.

      • I still can’t get over how almost immediately what used to be Republican talking points on the Clintons suddenly became Progressive talking points on the Clintons.

    • The same thing happened with The Nation, and then TM got zombified. It was Scary.

      • Salon was really ugly. They would gang up on anybody who didn’t say HRC sucked with really nasty, ugly comments in waves and bunches.

        • (shudder) I had to cancel my membership in the middle of my subscription. It WAS awful! I’d been a loyal member of Salon since the Impeachment.

    • I got slaughtered on Salon, along with the handful of other Hillary supporters commenting there. Salon was my introduction to blogworld, and boy was it a shock to the system. Really, really ugly stuff. Made me feel I never wanted anything to do with self professed “liberals” ever again.

    • The Obama “brand” paid Google a lot of money–2 million or so. It was not a coincidence that when one googled HRC, the take-off on the Apple Big Brother ad showed up (the video patched together by an Obama campaign worker).

  20. The 0bots started this fight — and the proof is in the archives of kos and DU and other “lefty” blogs. This is something that we should NOT get over EVER.

    What we were seeing was MOB behavior — irrational, non thinking behavior. And their behavior was being controlled from some central point. These creeps can never ever be forgiven — they are the enemy. It is doubtful that any of these 0bot monsters will stop and take a look at their actions and how they allowed themselves to be manipulated. I have yet to hear any apology from ANY of these creeps. What these creeps are doing is invading (or trying to invade) blogs like the Confluence or NQ and tell us that Hillary would have done what 0zero is doing.

    I don’t have a PhD — but I do have a MA in Group Dynamics — and it is amazing how the flow of communication on the Internet/blogs is like group dynamics. It is up to the moderator/facilitator of a group to control (and evict) the irrational crazies — but this did NOT happen — in fact the crazies were encouraged and egged on.

    As someone said above — it was the behavior of the 0bots who were a clue that something was not right with the way the 0bot campaign was run. Every single sleaze tactic was used — and that included really nasty character attacks — stalking and harassing of Hillary supporters. Susan over at NQ was stalked and harassed at the Orange Stain to an extent that I have never witnessed before — and then others got the same treatment. The 0bots then followed Susan to NQ. Same way that they have harassed our myiq2xqq.

    There is something evil about 0zero — because he both encourages this in his followers (instructing them to get in the face of others in order to get him voted) and in the way he ran his campaign. I believe that 0zero dislikes more about America and Americans then he likes about us. And he did grow up in Hawaii and because of the distance and the very different Island culture very often it feels like the Islands are not part of America — or the States as we most often called the mainland.

    The 0bots and 0zero started this fight — and there is no way in hell that I will ever forget what they did — we are going to have to live with the aftermath of their evil destruction of democracy.

    I’ll end by reminding you all of the CAUCUSES — I witnessed organized manipulation and evilness that I have NEVER ever seen before — and that includes working with real crazy people. Plus my sister happens to be one of the diagnosed crazy people — and to see these evil creatures dominate and overwhelm the rural caucus I attended makes my angry and ill to this day.

    These 0bots demonstrated that they will not tolerate a democracy unless it is their brain washed (kool-aide) brand of lunacy.

    • Yes, SusanUNPC was treated horribly at DK. I couldn’t believe she had the guts to keep posting her pro-Hillary diaries. Allegre too. I couldn’t stand to see how Hillary supporters were treated there and it is one of the things that pushed me to take a closer look at her.

      • And the day after Obama’s coronation, they started posting “Come home allegre!” diaries.

        • Really? Are you joking?

        • Nope. It was unbelievable. Similar to after the pie fight when the frat boys were going absolutely crazy and saying things that were beyond belief, and some of the rational ones were looking at the carnage, going, “uhhh…I don’t think you understand the damage you have done here.”

    • I’m hoping to get to do my practicum at a prison in the next couple of years. I’ll let you know how that holds up against the experience of being surrounded by rabid Obots.

    • The harrassment even happened in the”real-world.”

      • Oh god yeah. Many people who never go online told me they couldn’t support Obama because his supporters scared the $&@@ out of them. You don’t need boundaries or appropriate behavior when you have hope and change. Nobody likes a zealot.

      • I was pegged as a r@cist by two (former) friends in a longstanding classmatesdotcom group, of which I’m no longer a member. My crime was not being fond of Obama.

  21. I remember the troll swarms. They would show up and leave in groups. I pictured a bunch of them sitting in a big room with each at a separate work station and one person coordinating.

    • Sometimes you could tell there had been a shift change – Vastleft was charting it for a while but then he said something about it and it stopped.

  22. Wow. The stories here are incredible. It’s an oral history of our experience.

  23. What happened at HuffPo was so shocking. After a couple of years or so of regularly reading and posting, I’d come to recognize the players. Then, BAM!, outta nowhere came the attack of flying monkeys. And they WEREN’T republicans, apparently.

    Many of the noisiest were fairly new and ALWAYS commenting – all glorifying Obama, shitting on the Clintons (and Edwards) and employing war tactics normally reserved for right-wing trolls on their fellow HuffPo’ers. The passive but insistent ones had this creepy, blissed out, cult religious-like approach. The regs who jumped on the Pony either became obnoxious little shits or opted to keep a low profile (and certainly not piping up the vicious attacks on their long-time blog chums).

    Day after day, you’d witness Clinton supporters and REASONABLE Obama critics get clubbed to death. Some of the resident trolls were even taken aback.

    It was awesome to witness.

    • That reminds me. I’m kind of embarrassed to admit this, but shortly before I finally gave up on DK, I was trying really hard to restore some civility to the comments. There were a few other people who were trying too. Meteor Blades told us to get together and make a list of troublesome people and get back to him. He posted a couple of diaries about civility and seemed to be the only fp-er who was willing to take any kind of stand.

      I actually did work with another person for awhile, but very quickly it became clear that we were trying to bail water from a ship that was about to go down. And Meteor Blades never followed through. It looked like he would endorse Edwards and the suddenly he wrote that he was for Obama. I had really respected him previously, but now I think he’s worse than any of them, because he should have known better.

    • I admit for awhile I did enjoy sticking it to the mindless Obots, but it got old quickly.

  24. I have to say that Eschaton never got as bad as Daily Kos or Democratic Underground. Atrios runs a pretty tight ship but it was bad enough.

  25. And this,
    Writers Strike at DailyKos

    This is an open letter to the progressive blogosphere…

    I’ve been posting at DailyKos for nearly 4 years now and started writing diaries in support of Hillary Clinton back in June of last year. Over the past few months I’ve noticed that things have become progressively more abusive toward my candidate and her supporters.

    I’ve put up with the abuse and anger because I’ve always believed in what our on-line community has tried to accomplish in this world. No more. DailyKos is not the site it once was thanks to the abusive nature of certain members of our community.

    I’ve decided to go on “strike” and will refrain from posting here as long as the administrators allow the more disruptive members of our community to trash Hillary Clinton and distort her record without any fear of consequence or retribution. I will not be posting at DailyKos effective immediately. I will not help drive up traffic or page-hits as long as my candidate – a good and fine DEMOCRAT – is attacked in such a horrid and sexist manner not only by other diarists, but by several of those posting to the front page.

    There’s more

    Oh, yes — a lot more….

  26. I didn’t have a chance to read all the comments, however Hillfriends – nothing has changed – sure once in a while you will here an O person say Hillary has joined the team…but for the most part – all that Clinton hate on part of the O’s is still out there alive and kicking…they still repeat all the republican talking points…they still try to diminish Hillary and they hate Bill…I also have tried to inject balance and reason but their hate is irrational and will not quit…

    …there are still a lot of O’s people that want Hill to fail…they are a nasty bunch…and many of them sound so uninformed and frankly very immature

    • I saw that yesterday on Pandagon. Bald-faced CDS, for no good reason. It drives me Nuts.

      • yes, i ventured over to HP because they posted a few things about Bill and unbelievable…forget unity…these obots are mean, hateful and sound like they do not even know what they are talking about…they just react

        bottom line…it is sick

  27. Another thing I remember were the outrageous dishonesty of the Obots.

    According to them racism was rampant and sexism didn’t exist. They still claim that Hillary supporters abused them, but they never abused Hillary supporters:

    I too have read about how terrible things were for the poor Hillary supporters at Daily Kos but I’ve never seen concrete evidence of it. I could easily go to MyDD and find plenty of examples of Hillary supporters being mean to Obama supporters in the comments there. The endless anti Obama diaries read like they were extracted from Red State. From what I remember, the outnumbered “Obots” at MyDD didn’t cry foul and stomp off, they gave it right back to the Hillary supporters.

    If you ask them for proof of one of their claims they either ignore your request or bring back something that doesn’t say what they claim it does.

    And the insults never stop.

    • LOL yeah, they and the 25,000 paid astroturfers gave it right back….

      • I remember stuff like this:

        “Periodically? Lipstick on a pig? There’s nothing sexist about that!”

        “He said ‘fairy tale?’ ZOMG, that’s the most vile racist statement I’ve ever heard!”

        • Therefore, anything goes.

        • Fundamentally, Hillary, Sarah etc. are not human beings, and anything goes. They should never have been running in the first place.

    • This is really rather typical — The 0bots were in fact the aggressors — but now they want to play the victim. Even though all the proof is in the archives.

      What happened is that most of us left — hell I had more important things to do (like shave my legs) than waste time talking to mentally ill people.

      When cult members (or mentally ill people) are in the early stages of their delusion — it is really a waste of time to try to “reason” with them. Some of the fringe “believers” are probably having second thoughts — and if you have time to waste NOW would be a good time to remind them that their faith in 0zero is/was mistaken. You might be able to get through to the ones who have a few critical thinking brain cells still alive.

      There is an excellent book called “Snapping” by Flo Conway & Jim Siegelman — which gives insight into the messiah movements (like Jonestown, Waco).

      Like I mentioned above I witnessed the obot cult members in action at the Caucus I attended. Because of my academic training I saw exactly what these jerks were doing. The key point is that the 0bamanation was so organized to “win” at any cost that they invaded rural caucuses and spent thousands of dollars for each caucus district. “Someone” was massively funding the whole brainwashing of America. But it really doesn’t take a degree to see that a used car salesman is trying to you to buy a lemon.

  28. All of the CDS (both Bill and Hill) are enough evidence for me that the powers that be on both sides of the aisle do not want them in control.

    • Perfectly said and absolutely right. As my sister says, “If the Press is fer’em, be agin’em.
      Okay, my sister isn’t really Mammy Yokum but you get the idea.
      I had to leave Democratic Underpants when they went completely nuts, but it really hurt when I was no longer wanted at Eschaton. It was so weird to read people whose opinions I’d valued for years start attacking the Clintons with every vile, right wing paranoid fantasy.
      Some of Obama’s supporters reminded me of that phony mob in Florida in 2000. They would just swarm me-virtually speaking-whenever I said a positive thing about Hillary or answered a criticism of her. Pretty quickly it was okay to say you liked both candidates and then it was not. You had to be for Obama. Sad
      Really great post and comments

      • I remember the pressure to “I support both candidates, but.” I didn’t. I only wanted Hillary. But I had to say nice things about Obama, because even back then there was that undertone of “Or else…”

    • SOD, that’s one of the most succinct comments about the underpinnings of this corruption of democracy that I’ve ever seen.

      Of whom are the “powers that be” afraid? Hillary, Bill, Palin.

      Basically anyone with integrity and intelligence who also cares about real Americans and has the eggs to do the right thing over and over again.

      • EricaLeigh, I love “has the eggs to do the right thing over and over again.”
        That’s great.

        • Thanks Sue, don’t you think it’s time to reconfigure some of our metaphors?

  29. Take Michigan and Florida – you couldn’t get an Obot to admit that it was wrong to disenfranchise two critical states.

    They would just keep repeating that it was the rules, the rules, the rules.

    • (shaking head) People I always admired, Ezra Klein & Kevin Drum would NOT understand it.

      • They weren’t big on holding revotes either – they were afraid Hillary would win again.

        • Really, the ONLY thing I liked about BigTentDemocrat was that he was the first person I found who openly talked about it.

        • Little did I know that the plan all along was to just disregard ALL votes for Hillary. I could have saved myself a lot of angst if I’d understood that earlier.

          Now that I’m an Independent, things will be a lot easier for me. The Dems can pick their GUY and I can either for for him. Or not.

        • Yes, and yet they always came here and whined about the injustice democracy inflicts on people who don’t bother to vote.

    • Isn’t it amazing how he was not only entitled to the votes of OTHER but he got some of her actual delegates but they found nothing wrong with that. If Hill does run again she should just stay off the ballot in places like Iowa and then claim she is entitled to half the delegates.

      • I know, get on the ballot in 50 states, yank your name off in 50 states, then scream, I wasn’t on the ballot–all the votes belong to me!!!!!

  30. I only read Taylor Marsh and firedoglake most of the time.
    I always admired Hillary Clinton for being a strong woman who stood up under the most vicious attacks for years and still stood up for the country.
    My most eye opening experience was trying to understand why the obots did not see that if backtrack did not stand up for the people in his Chicago district that had no heat in the winter, he would not stand up for anyone. That one thing told me all I needed to know.. His lying and lack of action on important rights of the American citizen does not surprise me.
    The obots could not point to any real accomplishment of his so therefore the only thing left was to attack the messenger.
    How would you like to have to look in the mirror and realize you let your country down by not investigating and paying attention to facts that were brought to you.



    • I just remember writing emails to Jane just asking for some temperance from the Obots, she’d just blow me off and say, you have to be tough out here. What those guys used to say was horrible. And then, Caro and I had been in the DNC national blog on Yahoo for years and years and years and I’d come home to hundreds of emails shrieking at us for being Republican plants! I’m like, I’ve been here since it’s inception … I’ve seen your name two months and I’m a republican plant? Give me a friggin break. I started all that back when I got active in the Dean campaign way way way back.

  31. Let’s fast forward to today…GOP primary day in NJ…I stopped by NJ.com to see what’s going on in my home state and was inspired…the video is priceless! The reporter has attitude but the GOPers….EEK!

    NJ GOP Primary “Exit Poll” (6/2/09): Dumbass Republicans Galore to Rival Dumbass Democrats


  32. Oh yeah:

    There has been a lot of left-wing teeth-gnashing over the policies of the United States’ fake-progressive president Barack Obama. Left-progressives’ anger with the Obama administration is understandable given the new White House’s actions to (for example):

    * Significantly expand the reach and intensity of imperial violence (replete with the mass slaughter of civilians and the related escalation of targeted assassinations) in South Asia.

    * Promote a notorious assassin and death-squad leader (Lt. General Stanley A McChrystal – former chief of the military’s special Joint Special Operations Command) to the position of Commander of U.S. Forces in the newly merged “Af-Pak” war theater. [1]

    * Sustain the criminal occupation of Iraq beneath rhetoric of withdrawal. [2]

    * Increase “defense” (empire) spending, consistent with the following statement in a report issued by the leading Wall Street investment firm Morgan Stanley one day after Obama’s presidential election victory: “As we understand it, Obama has been advised and agrees that there is no peace dividend.”[3]

    * Revive military commissions.

    * Continue the practice of renditions.

    * Maintain secret prisons for persons “held on a short-term, transitory basis.”

    * Continue the unspeakable torture of prisoners by an “extrajudicial terror squad” (Jeremy Scahill’s description of the Pentagon’s sadistic “Immediate Reaction Force” in Cuba) at Guantanamo Bay. [4]

    * Advance the policy of “indefinite detention” (potentially permanent incarceration) for Guantanamo prisoners for whom no legally compelling evidence can be marshaled.

    * Intimidate England (with a threat to withhold intelligence data on potential terrorist attacks!) into preventing a Guantanamo victim from having his day in court on the Bush administration’s torture practices. [5]

    * Sustain the Bush administration’s abrogation of habeas corpus rights in regard to the roughly 600 “enemy combatants” kept at the Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan (where people rendered out of other countries like Yemen and England can be considered “war [-zone]” prisoners!. [6]

    * Advance nauseatingly specious legal and moral arguments (“better to look forward than backward”) to prevent serious federal investigation of the Bush administration’s human rights crimes.

    * Sustain George W. Bush’s domestic wiretapping program.

    * Invoke the “state secrets” (akin to the divine right of kings) doctrine to prevent disclosure of evidence in response to lawsuits emerging from Bush era rendition and surveillance policies.

    * Suppress photographic evidence of U.S. torture practices.

    * Justify all this and more in the name of the supposed “global war on terror” that was supposedly launched in legitimate defense against the supposedly unprovoked jetliner attacks of September 11, 2001.

    * Disregard qualified progressive defenders of civil liberties and human rights from consideration for appointment to succeed Supreme Justice David H. Souter and to thereby counter the hard right leanings of the court’s conservative majority. [7]

    * Send clear signals of intent to roll back and partially privatize Social Security and Medicare benefits.

    * Betray campaign pledges to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) to insert stronger labor and environmental protections. [7A]

    * Betray campaign pledges of serious intent to advance an elementary and overdue labor law reform (the Employee Free Choice Act).

    * Force and approve an automobile industry re-structuring that drastically cuts domestic autoworkers’ jobs, wages and benefits while subsidizing General Motors’ further shifting of jobs abroad. [8]

    * Advance a tepid, business-friendly health care “reform” that leaves the leading parasitic insurance corporations (major campaign sponsors of his) in power.

    * “Methodically erase single-payer advocates from the picture” (Glen Ford) of health care reform despite the fact that a majority of Americans have long favored a single-payer (“Medicare for all”) health insurance system. [9]

    * Spend trillions of federal dollars on taxpayer handouts to giant Wall Street firms who spent millions on his campaign and who drove the economy over the cliff. Obama’s Wall Street bailout rejects the elementary bank nationalizations and public financial restructuring that are required to put the nation’s credit system on a sound and socially responsible basis, choosing instead to guarantee the financial, insurance, and real estate industries’ toxic, hyper-inflated assets while keeping existing Wall Street management in place. It amounts to a giant effort to “keep perpetrators afloat” (liberal economist James Gailbraith) through a scheme in which the government takes more than 90 percent of the risk but private investors reap at least half the reward.

    I could go on. It’s not a pretty story. And it’s only going to get worse.

    • myiq,

      Great pull!


    • That is one HELL of a list — I’ve copied it to my file to use at a future time.

      • The article you linked to is well worth a read — and then read it again.

        Is the left waking up — or have just a few folks have “snapped” and seen the light?

    • myiq
      thank you for the link. The posters on The Confluence always expand my horizons.



    • I’m sorry, is there a problem with any of that?

      You people are weird.

    • thanks a million for that link, MYIQ.

    • Fake progressive? From what I can tell he’s a real progressive. They bought him, they own him.

      • That word progressive gives me the hives any more. It’s like a code word for kool aid drinker.

        • Yep, It’s gonna be my new insult. I’m gonna make it my mission to let people know that Pelosi and Obama are progressives too. The “progressives” get to dance with the ones they brung.

          Me? I’m an unashamed liberal and I want nothing to do with em’

    • Paul Street is on fire! I’m saving that one for future reference too.

      • Street’s been on Obie from Day One. It was one of his columns that led me to Black Agenda Report where he appears regularly.

    • What an impressive list of accomplishments in a very short period of time.

    • Not to mention the death of campaign finance reform, a feat for which Obama himself can take full credit. Why is this never ever mentioned???

  33. Just a thought.
    The dems are not getting as much money as the reps are getting.
    Are the Pumas being used as an excuse for the dems failure?
    Anybody got a figure on how many people left the democratic party due to the actions during this last election cycle?



    • Someone on Alegre posted that people are donating to individual candidates. On the surface it looks like they aren’t but in reality they are getting lots of money.

  34. Wow…. can I just say that the comments on this thread are amazing? Our history is rich, if even sad and tragic, but at least we held our ground, and that is what makes us who we are.

    I had always loved Hillary since she became FLOTUS when I was three. Mostly my admiration was private and silent, because of my father, but I had always known I was a liberal since I was old enough to be able to tell the difference.

    During the election I didn’t decide to support Hillary until January or so, since I too had watched the debates but was only paying a certain amount of attention.

    What turned me off to Obama was similar to what many here maintain. His empty suitedness, the double standard, and the behavior of his supporters. I didn’t understand what was so great about him, but it was especially difficult because this was a media environment I had been raised in. It was hard for me to put the emulation of Obama into perspective, but my clue was that it was at least similar to the run up to the Iraq War.

    I didn’t use blogs, but mostly information searched, like Cinie. My first refuge was The Left Coaster, but I eventually settled her at TM and then later, here.

    The sheer violence and mob mentality of Obots still amazes me, because it was present even on News Sites like CNN and MSNBC.

  35. I know this is OT but I have a question. What do you think of a married female politicia being called Mrs? I have noticed this in regards to Hillary. You read an article and there is some reporter calling her Mrs. Clinton not secretary or senator but Mrs. It is not the same with Pelosi or Palin. Is it right to do that?

    <b<Taiwanese president calls Clinton 'Mrs.,' not 'Secretary'

    The United States and Taiwan have not had formal relations since the United States severed diplomatic ties in 1979 in order to normalize relations with the People’s Republic of China. Perhaps in keeping with the absence of formal ties, the Taiwanese president addressed Secretary Clinton as “Mrs. Clinton” while introducing himself as “the president of Taiwan.”

    Later, Ma told Taiwanese media that the informal chat was typical of “courtesy encounters” that occur at diplomatic functions.


    • politician not politcia

    • I think it’s demeaning. I hear Clinton haters in the US doing the same thing. They did it during the primaries: Mrs. Clinton instead of Senator Clinton.

      • Yep. It’s deliberate. As Obots liked to say “Obama’s election would be such a symbolic victory and mean so much more than just electing somebody’s wife.”

        • that infuriated me. Obama is 25% black. Hillary, even though she was married to Bill as first lady of AK, had many accomplishments and experience in her own right in fighting for the poor and middle class, education reform, getting health care to rural areas, ect.
          It’s that old doublestandard. If a woman is married, all her accomplishments belong to her husband. If hse is not married, she is just a lezbo.
          I though electing a liberal woman would be rea, tear jerking change that would change status for women all around the world, not electing a half black guy with a resume the size of a postage stamp.
          Unbelievable. I still can’t get over it.

        • I have some obot friends who traveled in Africa during the campaign and they were stunned and annoyed that all the older women, some of whom even grew up under aparthe id were basically like yeah, big whoop. There are plenty of countries that elect black men everytime, how many female leaders are there in the entire world? Transformative change for us would be to elect Hillary.

          We all laughed at them, but they were genuinely pissed that the women they met screwed up their fantasy by not caring about Obama and being thrilled about Hill.

        • That proves that I am correct. Thanks, Seriously.

        • Seriously, your story about the African women is amazing. Thank you.

    • I’ve noticed the same thing with Sotomoyer…both press types and elected officials (Repubs mostly) call herSonia or Mrs Sotomoyer, not Judge.

      Do you remember anyone calling Clarence Thomas Mr. Thomas? Or any of the other male nominees to the Supremes who were sitting judges at the time of their nomination? Me neither.

    • Well, at least he didn’t call her “Bill Clinton’s wife.”

      I know I’m a broken record but this is why I am anti-marriage, a tradition with its roots in property exchange. And still, in this day and age, it is used to define women and diminish women’s stature and personal achievements. Enough already.

  36. That fellow Geekesque was the most annoying and disingenuous of that mob at Cheetoville. And Kos himself gleefully allowed the most vile stuff against Hillary to stand. For me the tipping point came when Kos wrote this front page post accusing the Hillary campaign of lying about the “tip” (remember that fake story ?). The hatred directed at her was just insane and unbelievable. No one has done more to poison the progressive blogosphere against the Clintons as much as Kos and Huffington.

    The campaign against Shaheen for making a comment about the Messiah’s self admitted drug use was started by the obsequious Ben Smith of Politico, who saw a “racial stereotype” in the whole thing and then on cue, the fires began to rage in the blogs. Who can forget the the RFK “assassination” nonsense coupled with the race card that was played against the Clintons in that sad sorry DNC fixed primary ?

    And now Obama, the man who ran the most duplicitous, vicious (remember the Harry and Louise patterned ads?) , divisive Wall Street funded campaign in history, the man who literally bought his way to the presidency has the gall to call Bill Clinton a “liar” ? There are no words to describe the utter shamelessness of some people.

    • Anything said by ANY Hillary supporter was attributed directly to Hillary, but Obama wasn’t even held responsible the things that came from his own mouth.

    • I remember in the GE he made an ad about health care. I can’t remember what it was that he said but I know many here were angry especially Masslib(sp). Republicans could use his primary talking points against him.

      • That ad enraged me as well. It told me more about his character and campaign than anything else, up until that point.

        • It pissed me off too. The idea that Hillary was going to make poor people choose between rent and healthcare was a disgusting talking point. As if it was beyond the realm of possibility that she’d subsidize the poorest of Americans. Grrrrrrrr. I get angry all over again just thinking about it.

    • I’ve read some interesting stuff about Mr. Kos’s rather “mixed” background. Taking a page out of the Obot manual: he has all the markings of a right wing plant.

  37. How will the obots explain this one?




  38. Four months into the Obama administration and Americans are suddenly feeling friendlier toward Republicans, according to poll.


    • Wait until Obama starts showing up in muscle shirts. The one-two arm punch will be unbeatable. No pun intended.

    • Despite the efforts of the Republicans to make themselves extinct.

      • Yeppers. It feels like I have absolutely no chance of representation in the immediate future. Sigh. I sure do get tired of choosing between bad and worse.

  39. Here’s what I want to know: how can anyone “get over it” when the ugly seeds sown during 2008 are continually bearing fruit now? It’s not over. It’s only getting started.

    I didn’t “get” Obama from the start — didn’t like or trust him. I don’t even think his speeches are good, greek columns or no. But it was his supporters that raised the red flag, because I saw his candidacy as a means to co-opt and divide the left. And it did. The blogs didn’t even both me as much as the big money media getting its hate on. Clinton, Palin — even now, it turns my stomach to remember. And if anyone wants to think this is not letting go of Hillary Clinton: well, here’s me, and I’m waaaay left, not a Democrat, and I was very critical of the Bill Clinton presidency. And *still* to me HRC was obviously the far better candidate of the two. Despite the fact that I’m coming from a different political-philosophical place, the HRC supporters clearly had the integrity and guts. TC was a safe haven for a lot of us — diverse as we were — because the place *made sense* when nothing else did.

    But now, let go? How? The same crap is still going on because (as we said then) no one stopped the self-absorbed, empty Obama movement. The same hypocritical lack of moral center — propped by corporate media and even formally clueful people — exists. And grows. Blackwater/Xe? Okay now. Detentions and renditions? Okay now. Violations of international law? Just fine now. Corporate giveaways? Peachy. Expanding the phony War on Terror (renamed or not)? Awesome! These cult of personality types — and I use that phrase firmly and deliberately — don’t know or care about political accountability and I remember something we use to say here during the primaries. “They’re ESCALATING.” Well, they were escalating to the here and now. No one stopped them and we’re seeing the results.

    Let it go? While they justify torture, feudalism and endless war? Not on your life.

    • Preach it, Alice!

    • I remember when Obots started using their variation of the good old “Who are you more scared of, Osa ma or Bush?” except, of course with Obama and Bush. Obama, because Bush opened the door and now Obama can fling it open and walk through and it’ll be defined as progressivism to cheering crowds.

    • Alice, marry me. That post was a win.

    • A small bright spot: My co-worker, who is not an obot but has definitely been an ardent supporter, mentioned to me today that he is finally coming around to my view of the bailouts as welfare for the wealthy. Not a big step, but enough to make me hope that eventually the pod people will awaken from their kool-aid comas.

    • Your post is right on.

      Yesterday I was heading to a meeting and it just suddenly hit me: our country had been taken over, democracy is dead, and WE ARE NOT OUT IN THE STREETS! WTF IS GOING ON?

      Sorry for shouting, but after everything that has happened, everything that Alice and everyone else has been recalling, why is the nation so complacent? Are we not, figuratively or literally, the descendants of the American revolutionaries?

      I am proud of PUMAs for not giving in or giving up, for maintaining our integrity in the face of ridicule, hatred, and threat. But somehow I think we should be doing more, I’m just not sure how, beyond being here and speaking truth.

    • WORD.

    • Terrific post Alice! Saying 5/31st / 08 is ” in the past” is completely mistaken. That’s like saying a poisoned fruit’s root is ” in the past.” …perhaps, but it’s still vitally connected to what is happening now! How can I get over what is happening now?

  40. Suddenly Obama remembers he has Muslim roots:

    During a conference call in preparation for President Obama’s trip to Cairo, Egypt, where he will address the Muslim world, deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Denis McDonough said “the President himself experienced Islam on three continents before he was able to — or before he’s been able to visit, really, the heart of the Islamic world — you know, growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father — obviously Muslim Americans (are) a key part of Illinois and Chicago.”

    Remember the good old days when using his middle name was racist?

    • It makes me sick when I remember how they jumped on Hillary on the “not as far as I know” remark. She’s asked a question by some reporter (I forget who it was – but it was one of the big networks – NBC or CBS) if she thinks if “Obama is a muslim”. And she immediately replies no, of course not and how she has great sympathy for anyone who is unfairly targeted with such falsehoods. But this idiot persists with the “so you don’t think Obama is a muslim ?!!” line of questioning repeatedly. Obviously bewildered by the obsessive jerk who perhaps knows something that she doesn’t, she again emphatically says “no” and then follows up with the “not as far as I know” comment.

      How they crucified her for that ! Endlessly, on and on, it was sick and revolting. The things she has had to go through and withstand… and they want us to forget ?!!

      • Oh, I remember that. I almost threw up. I think it was sixty minutes. He just kept asking and asking until she would say something he could hook on. If you ever read Susan McDougal’s book, she talks about how reporters do that all the time to get what they need out of an interview, since they always have that type of agenda.
        They did the same thing with Palin’s interviews. The Katie Couric one especially, they sliced and diced and “selectively edited” to try to paint her as a silly maroon.
        I remember reading the entire transcript of the interview and being pretty impressed, but then I saw how they were playing it on the news and I couldn’t believe my eyes.

      • It was 60 minutes, Steve Croft I think is his name. She denied B0 was a muslim eight times and finally said, in exasperation, “not that I know of.” Like everything, it was purely manufactured lies. And as with all the fake uproars, B0 did nothing to curb them.

        Our selected White House occupant is a lying, cheating, manipulating fraud.

        • Eric Boehlert on the 60 Minutes “Is Obama a Muslim” piece:



          They edited out this part:

          KROFT: It’s just scurrilous —

          CLINTON: Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors. I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time.

        • God, she is so beautiful, compassionate, smart.

          It’s sickening that we were cheated out of a Hillary presidency.

  41. Read this article and see how the American people were betrayed and maybe get as angry as I am.
    Obots can go to hell///////




  42. I haven’t read through the comments yet but I sure remember being banned all of a sudden from several blogs that I had participated in for years. Just for speaking out about the differences in the candidate’s policies and pointing out the inconsistencies in Obama’s statements. At first I was surprised, then disapointed and finally it became anger. I am still angry, not to mention a “racist” since I didn’t back the brown one..

  43. I am watching those ratfuckers eat their words. Obama is a big disappointment to them and over time it will be more and more obvious. As for the misogyny that he sponsered during both the democratic primary and the general election, the verberations will be felt for years. Now he wants to go suck the asses of the misogynistic musilum world. His bow on one knee to the saudi king was telling. It was be comparable to if Bush kissed the ring of the grand wizard of the KKK.

    But nobody says a thing. Meantime, women have “O” human rights in that country and they generally treat their whole population like shit. Its a joke when the gov’t singles out china for Human rights violations, but embraces the saidi’s and other women hating cultures. I’d rather be in China, than in Saudi Arabia any day of the week!

    Obama is an imperialist corporate whore every bit as much Bush! These idiots who blindly support him so they can be vindicated from their white liberal guilt have yet to learn the cost of their absolution.

  44. I was a premium member on Air America. I revered Thom Hartmann, and sang his praises whenever I could. He was an Edward’s supporter, but when John quit Thom said he was leaning toward Obama. Okay, I thought , nothing wrong with that, but then he reported Markos’ assertion that H. Clinton’s camp had darkened Obi’s picture to emphasize that he was BLACK. The next day he backed off somewhat, but the damage was done. It was apparent that Mr Hartmann could not really be trusted. I stopped listening to his show. I was never a fan of Rhodes, and Seder, The Young Turks, and R Maddow were soon finished for me. No matter how much these people complain now, it’s a done deal as far as I’m concerned. I can only trust my own eyes and ears, everyone else is just a spinner.

  45. Great post and comments, but painful. I was consumed with Hillary 20 hours a day during those days. Lost many friends and a few members of the family. Left Dem party for good.

    Hope two constructive things come out of our collective experience.

    1. Lot of Obama campaign books are coming out. Any one doing pro-Hillary book? There is definitely market for it – about 100,000 copies or so.

    2. Hillary learnt a lot from the experience and we did too. We will not let her do any mistakes next time.
    Will someone do a post on things that Hillary could have done better and mistakes that could have been avoided?

  46. I don’t care what anyone says. We can’t forget how we ended up here.

    Most of us, in one way or another, were either driven out of a place or felt forced to leave.

    I watched a little of the BO spectacular on NBC. I feel just as angry and cheated as ever, maybe more.

    Thank You, myiq, you are a treasure.

    • Did you notice how dismissive Rahm was of Hill? She didn’t looked thrilled to see him either.

      • Oh yeah, he’s a black hearted bastard. What I could stomach of the show only confirmed what I suspected.

        • But-But Brian Williams said Obama is as smart as Bill Clinton, with much more mental discipline! He wouldn’t say it if it weren’t true!

        • Yea and Rahm took the “high road” by not commenting with his usual *wink wink* bullsh*t.
          F*ck him.
          NBC is a joke.

    • Obama is not fit to blow Bill Clinton’s nose.

      Bill Clinton is a million times smarter than Bam, and his mental discipline is of course, greater because Bam doesn’t have any mental discipline.

      • Apparently, while he gapes and gulps in his inability to answer simple questions, he’s thinking profound thoughts. Maybe he mentally programs TOTUS. 🙂

        • *giggle attack* Yeah, all those uuuuuummmmssss and ahhhhssssss are covers for his intellectual superiority. In fact, he is so smart that his stumbling, rambling, and stuttering is a different language that we lowly, uneducated peruvien lesbians cannot understand.
          Only Richard Wolff and other gifted Obots are allowed to understand and sacrifice at the Alter of Obama.

        • roflcopter.

      • let’s put it this way…put Obama and Bill on a stage – NO TELEPROMPTERS ALLOWED – and ask the important questions of our day…finance, health, wars, you name it…

        what do you think would be the result? Bill Clinton will give a consise, understandable outline for every issue right off the top of his head…Bill will reduce Obama to standing there saying “I agree with Bill – Bill is absolutely correct”

        …just like O was forced to agree with Hillary when she left him in her dust with her answers…

        …Brian Williams should have asked him if he could function without his teleprompter

        …and that is not even mentioning that for someone who ‘wanted to change the page’ so bad, O’s staff is filled with Clinton people, including Hillary, and is using alot the Clinton’s policies…

        so much for being original…it is almost like O is trying to be Bill without having Bill there…no wonder O is afraid to have Bill around…Bill completely outshines O

        • He knows Bill and Hill are better then him without trying and it drives him nuts. That is why he has to lash out at them in these underhanded ways so much.

  47. Great post and absolutely true, myiq2xu!


  48. Who here also remembers all the talk shows “neutral” Donna Brazile went on? I could do a tinfoil hat theory on her new relationship at Ms. magazine and Obama’s friends Kim Gandy.

  49. After BTD’s visit here I was trying to go easy on his co-blogger but Jeebus!:

    NBC’s Brian Williams promises an inside look at the White House tonight in a special report. He spent a full day with President Obama.


    Update: The best segment was Obama and Williams going out for hamburgers for them and staff to bring back to White House.

    It’s least it’s not as bad as her swooning report on Date Night

    • That part actually was kind of the best part. You’d think the staffers would have enough common sense to pretend it happens all the time, instead they were just like WTF? Williams’ adoring narration of Obama returning “laden with grease soaked bags” also was a LOL moment.

      • *giggle* Brian Williams is SOOOOOO smart!

      • To be fair, Five Guy burgers ARE awesome.

        That being said, I’m thinking we have far bigger fish to fry then watching a Day in the Life of…..I mean geez, did I miss it and do the millions without health care now have care? Did we fix the economy and on Friday am i gonna hear that our unemployment is back down to reasonable levels? How bout the foreclosures, do those folks have housing? Have we solved our Guantanomo problem, North Korea, Iraq and this is all we have left to worry about? I really think that the American public would rather not watch the media swooning and would prefer to hear the state of the nation and how the methods on the table to fix it.

  50. Myiq,

    They’re revising history. Don’t you know meddling voters CHOSE Obama? I shit you not that’s what I just read. Evidently they watched a different primary then we did. The primary I saw had Obama discounting Michigan and Florida. It also had him being drug across the finish line by the superdelegates since everytime they Hillary HAD to win, she did so spectacularly. At that even as they drug him across the finish line, they had to arm twist her delegates at roll call.

    Geez these people live in some freakin’ alternate reality.

  51. I say we should NEVER FORGET. And I refuse to give a cent or volunteer a second for any Democratic candidate as long as the DNC that rigged the nomination operates out of Chicago, or has the same “leadership.”

    As for BO, he is on ignore mode for me, just as Reagan and Bush were. I did hear he was going to give a “speech” to the Middle East. That is what I expected from
    him, admonishing speeches. He did say he was gifted in his speechifying abilities, but frankly he comes across as a reader who is bored, and his voice is clipped without emotion.
    He is what we have become. The one who can buy the office, who has
    the best TV “branding,” the faux progressive. Oprah made him.

    • “He is what we have become. The one who can buy the office, who has the best TV “branding,” the faux progressive.”

      Well said!

      We need legislation like the Fair Elections Now Act to have our representatives more accountable us. http://www.fairelectionsnow.org/

  52. I don’t hold the koolaid drinkers responsible for what happened in 2008 because I recognize they are not very intelligent. I hold Obama responsible. He set the tone with the racial baiting and his misogyny, but more importantly, I hold the leaders of the Democratic Party responsible. That’s why I left the party. I waited for the GOP to self-destruct, and I suspect the same fate will befall the Democratic Party.

  53. On the bright side: I discovered that Pat Buchannon and Joe Scarboro are reasonable gentlemen with respect for achievement. I also found Fox News – the only news organ willing to even discuss the PUMA position. I now flip between Morning Joe and Fox and Friends to compare and contrast their focus. Eye Popping differences. As for Gretchen, she shows Mika that the facts can be delivered professionally. After a while, you discern that MSNBC is just selling books, Time Magazine, NYT, MSNBC opinion and NBC news. And, Barnacle, when the Boston Globe folds, it’s justice for their abdication of the Fourth Estate Responsibilities to citizens in a democracy.

  54. […] Were we just imagining the fury of Obama supporters back in December 2007 thru February 2008?  Boehlert himself says “all hell broke loose” in Left Blogistan right after Edwards dropped out […]

  55. […] Posts We Didn't Start The FireThe Low Road 2008What will you do?Your Breakfast Read, Served By The ConfluenceYour Breakfast Read, […]

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