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What will you do?

He said what?

He said what?

Yesterday Katiebird discovered some PUMA bashing going on at The Left Coaster that specifically mentioned The Confluence, Riverdaughter and myself. While the specific PUMA-basher is some pissant no-list blogger/blogstalker, I was struck by this comment today by Lambert Strether:

If today were November 2012, I would not vote for this team. As far as the banking sector is concerned, this gang is no different than the knaves and dolts who came before. It is more of the same irresponsible, expensive and reckless policy that preceded them.

Oh really? I have some questions for Lambert.

What happened to party unity and voting for a Democrat no matter what? Do you plan to sit 2012 out and throw your vote away by not voting or voting for a no-hope third-party candidate? Would you consider voting strategically for a real Republican piece of shit instead of a ratfucker like Obama?

More importantly:

Will you turn a cold shoulder to authentic grassroots liberal groups like PUMA?

If you have questions about your friends and allies will you talk to them or lob grenades at them?

Will you accuse bona fide liberal Democrats of being racists?


Eriposte is back and I highly recommend you all visit The Left Coaster on a regular basis and read his/her posts. It would also be a good idea if you would defend our reputation (at TLC and elsewhere) by challenging the lies being told about us, including not only bogus accusations of racism but even bizarre allegations like that we are followers of Lyndon LaRouche.

Last year we retreated here to The Confluence to regroup and reorganize. Now it is time for us to begin reclaiming Left Blogistan,even if we have to do it one blog at a time.

“Saddle up! Let’s get back in the war!”



It seems that due to a fomatting error (by Lambert) I was mistaken in my quote. But taken in context he appears to endorse that point of view. If I am wrong then I invite him to clarify his position.

129 Responses

  1. Crap -embedding is disabled but if you click thru you can see the final scene of “Sands Of Iwo Jima”

  2. Hi myiq2xu – I’m pretty sure the paragraph you have quoted is by Barry Ritholtz. Lambert linked to the original post.

  3. Lambert wrote in Hillary in the GE (at least that’s what he said on his blog around election day).

    That doesn’t negate all of your criticisms of him, but it does seem fair to point that out.

    • Writing in HRC in 2008 would be another way to throw your vote away, especially since in some states that would be treated as a vote for Obama.

      • But in some states it didn’t. I wrote in Hillary and am very proud of that. Lambert seems to have felt the same. So, I don’t see how his statement here can be read as some kind of about face on his part.

        • You have eyes but cannot see, you have ears but cannot hear.

        • Do you have proof that Lambert wrote in Hillary in the GE? I’ve never seem him claim to have done that. If he did, he has now done two huge about faces.

        • I can’t access the site right now, but I remember most of the posters over there declaring how they voted, and Lambert stated he wrote in Hillary.

          My recollection is that after the primary he initially reconciled himself to voting for Obama in the GE, but then changed his mind. I believe Obama’s FISA vote was the nail in the coffin, but don’t quote me on that.

        • The point is and was that alot of us were disparaged because we strategically disagreed with a Hillary write in and instead thought it was in our best interest to vote for a Republican we disagreed with then for a Democrat we couldn’t trust.

          Until folks straight up say the Democrats don’t own me or my vote(and likewise for the GOP folk unhappy with the way their party governs)we are goin g to continue having problems getting Democrats to actually do more than stand for a platform on paper. They will continue to phone it in under the assumption that we won’t go anywhere because the alternative is “worse”

        • (nodding) What Cwaltz said.

          Until folks straight up say the Democrats don’t own me or my vote(and likewise for the GOP folk unhappy with the way their party governs)we are goin g to continue having problems getting Democrats to actually do more than stand for a platform on paper.

          I’m NOT supporting Dinos anymore.

        • I remember Lambert belatedly deciding to write in Hillary- I remember being surprised at the time.

          ( Not that I go over to Corrente very often, being put off by Mandos and Miss cowboy boots.)

  4. Well I seem to recall the founder of this site writing that what brought people together here, among other things, was a decision not to vote for Obama.

    Though you seem to disapprove, some did this by writing in Hillary. I respectfully disagree with your condemnation of that choice.

    (Again, this has nothing to do with your other criticisms of Lambert, which IMO are fair).

    • I’m not condemning that choice.

      I’m condemning the condemnation of people who made other choices.

    • You’re not getting it. RD never endorsed anyone or told anyone who to vote for. But all the Obots and “party loyalty” Hillary supporters were forever telling us we were “allowed” to vote either third party or to write in, but not to vote for the Republican as a protest. That was not allowed, that was unacceptable, that made those of us who did it (and most here probably did not) bad. We would be responsible for McCain’s actions in a way that Obama’s voters, of course, are not. The point is, they need to stop guilt tripping people, telling them who to vote for, casting them off into the outer darkness and asking them to choose between two evils and try to ensure instead, that there’s actually a decent choice available. That would be much more productive.

      • Ironically, the guy we voted for in protest is probably less Bush III than the guy who won.

        • And we knew that. I don’t know how many times I said Obama could run with Bush’s playbook and his supporters would cheer and make excuses–the only difference between the two is that Bush had people opposing him.

      • I did it, and now I’m even more sure that I did the right thing. If I had voted for Obama, I think I’d be suicidal at this point. And voting for a third part or writing in Hillary would have been pointless in my mind. I don’t have any problem with people who did that–It just wouldn’t have felt as real to me as what I finally did. I voted for the only candidate who had a realistic chance against Obama.

        Lambert said all along that he was voting for the Democrat. He said that long after Obama’s FISA vote, which was during the primaries. If he wrote in Hillary in the end, after looking down his nose at us for so long and then finally calling us racists, it just shows what a wishy-washy weenie he really is.

  5. “Now it is time for us to begin reclaiming Left Blogistan…”

    Hmmm……I don’t want them back. I’m not interested in reclaiming what they laid waste to.

    “Saddle up! Let’s get back in the war!”

    Yes, but this is a war you cannot win. It’s a war against stupidity and that’s just a renewable resource that never goes away.

    I wonder, all those blogger boyz who supported Bush in 2000, who later came to support Obama and declared themselves the new voice of the Left, will they be going back to the Republican party when Obama lets them down? ‘Cuz I just want to know where they will be so I can work for the other side.

    • I have no interest in Cheetopia or other cesspools, but TLC wasn’t a Kool-aid blog, at least not until Eriposte stopped posting.

      There are places that are starting (or restarting) to tell the truth about Obama, and we need to see that they tell the truth about PUMA too.

    • y,

      “Yes, but this is a war you cannot win. It’s a war against stupidity and that’s just a renewable resource that never goes away.”



      • “Saddle up! Let’s get back in the war!”

        Wild Horses

        OK, we are not exactly the ‘Unity Ponies’ they were expecting. 😯

  6. Eriposte has been “rehabilitated”??? That is hard to believe; s/he was an invaluable source of documentation of what a corrupt, sociopathic fraud that Obama is.

    • Eriposte was never a Kool-aider and doesn’t need to be rehabilitated.

      • oh yeah. I loved her/his posts, I remember. TLC was one of the first blogs I ever started reading, back when I was seventeen and was trying to decide which candidate to vote for in the Ohio primary, after I read a bunch of books about Bam and Hillary.
        Eriposte was one of those posters that helped me finalize my decision to vote for Hillary, and I started blogging and volunteering for her campaign shortly afterwards.

    • eriposte is a “he.” He still seems to dislike Obama. The problem is he is going around smearing The Confluence as somehow having an unacceptable point of view.

      • I never knew or cared about Eriposte’s gender, but I didn’t want to assume anything.

        My reading of the post didn’t have Eriposte flinging mud.

        • In the comments, he kept saying that people like Lambert weren’t PUMA, they were true progressives. The implication was that we are somehow not lefties.

        • I re-read the comment thread and I see that now.

      • Still smearing TC?

      • Yeah, I have always loved Eriposte’s posts, but I get a bit tired of the “I’m not a PUMA, but…” tone, just like I get sick of “I’m not a feminist, but…”

        It buys into and reinforces the idea that the label is a distasteful one.

        • yes, it buys into that lunatic framing trick they use at junior high school lunch tables all over the country … if the cool kids label them nerds, and I say yeah, nerds are cool, and i’m not a nerd afterall, maybe they’ll let me sit with them for a day

  7. sure ill go to bat for ya … what did the say about ya. i love a good fight

  8. myiq2xu, That defense business is going to be relentless and thankless. The PUMA hate is a live well and rancid as ever. It was fun & interesting to read Eriposte again. But, wow. The comments to that thread turned my stomach.

    I’m hoping I’ll get over it if this is the next step in our challenge.

    • I don’t want lies about us to go unchallenged.

    • I’m still trying to figure out how we got linked to the Larouche nutterz

      • That was because you linked to somebody who linked to somebody who linked to somebody that was a LaRouchite.

        Next time be more careful.

      • dakinikat,

        Seven degrees of linkage separation are required, as per myiq’s comment. This is difficult because six connect us with everyone else.


        • Yes, it’s a clever rhetorical technique to slide from “blogs like The Confluence” to “blogs like No Quarter” in the same paragraph as if you’re talking about the same blog.

          One thing that I admired about BigTentDemocrat was that he took at least a little time to come over and read enough here to know that he was confused about our blog.

        • Yes. Sky dancing was my refuge from the tumult.

        • odd, how this little world wide web invention allows like-minded individuals to hone in on each other.

          the koolaid was so thick out there and so many folks were misinformed and blankly mumbling talking points that I thought i’d never be able to leave the house again

        • dakinikat,

          Do our “self- sorting” communities mimic the structure of the mechanism? If so, how so?


      • interesting question …maybe we have some kind of natural sonar programed into our dna

  9. As his comment indicates, Lambert is quoting Barry Ritholz. (The Ritholz quote can be found here: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/busted-banks-rebuff-regulation/. )

    • Like I said, I quoted the part AFTER the blockquote. Taken in context, even if formatted correctly Lambert appears to endorse that view.

      Some of us don’t click every link and read the entire post linked to.

    • The comment indicated that he was quoting Ritholz but, the formatting implied (more than implied) that the bit myiq2xu quoted was Lambert’s own. Who closes a blockquote in the middle of the quote?

      I certainly assumed that Lambert was speaking for himself there.

      It certainly sounded like his voice with that “knaves and dolts” bit.

  10. Here’s my point:

    I can’t speak to the motives of everyone who has used the PUMA name, but the ones that blog here ( commenters as well as past and present front-pagers) have given me no reason to suspect that they are/were Republicans, racists and/or LaRouchites in disguise.

    If Riverdaughter is a GOP ratfucker then they have been planning the subversion of the Democratic party for decades and her skill as a double agent is wasted here.

    • well, they got what they wanted and deserved, only the mentally ill are still obsessively and compulsively repeating the robocall

  11. myiq2xu, on June 1st, 2009 at 10:19 pm Said:

    Eriposte was never a Kool-aider and doesn’t need to be rehabilitated.
    Didn’t mean to imply that he was. His postings were the most informative on candidate during the Dem primary. He refuted every Obot lie about Hillary. I am just surprised that Eriposte is allowed to post again….rehab. was snark.

  12. *shrugs* who cares, really? Not only have Obots never been able to come up with one rational reason for the massive outpouring of hate they stirred up against Hillary, they’ve never been able to formulate one rational reason for supporting Obama. So what do you expect? Of course they’re going to smear you guys, they have to in order to maintain their self image in the face of the fiasco that is Obama. “I always had doubts–I never really wanted to support him, but I was pushed into it by the racism. You remember, the racism! That’s what pushed me over into blind worship of this charletan. Yeah, that’s the ticket!” What do you expect them to say, we have no idea what that was all about, we plumb lost our minds, you were right all along? They lack the character and went too far with the delusion for that, they need a scapegoat.

  13. Greg Palast has a story here about how during the GM bankruptcy, the pension funds will be used to pay some debts. Specifically Citi and JPMC.

    “Screw the autoworkers.

    They may be crying about General Motors’ bankruptcy today. But dumping 40,000 of the last 60,000 union jobs into a mass grave won’t spoil Jamie Dimon’s day.

    Dimon is the CEO of JP Morgan Chase bank. While GM workers are losing their retirement health benefits, their jobs, their life savings; while shareholders are getting zilch and many creditors getting hosed, a few privileged GM lenders — led by Morgan and Citibank — expect to get back 100% of their loans to GM, a stunning $6 billion.

    The way these banks are getting their $6 billion bonanza is stone cold illegal.”


    This does not seem legal to me. Any opinions?

    • It’s not legal, but I wonder if there’s a little amendment slipped into a bailout bill somewhere that makes it legal? That wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

    • Bankrupt banks don’t go to bankruptcy courts, they go into receivership and that’s run by regulators like FDIC and the FED. There’s a different procedure for FIs than for manufacturing. All of that stuff is civil law and contract law and regulatory law. It basically recognizes the special status of depository institutions since they have fiduciary responsibilities to many small savers. If you’re studying stocks and bonds in the market in general, you always glean out the SIC codes of the FIs because they’re regulatory environment is such that they can’t behave like a ‘normal’ business ever.

  14. i have question a ask what do you think that all PUMAS have that we have not fell into the spell that has engulfed so many
    & that make us aware of what is going on now & before . what is the comon bond that we all have that the others don’t ??

    • we think, we pay attention, we listen, we remember.
      we do not accept second best.



    • Critical thinking skills, integrity, and a highly internal locus of control.

      • I’m about as romantic as an egg plant. I don’t believe anything I haven’t seen for myself. I look for evidence not hope. Blind faith= ignorance to me. Probably, why I’m a Buddhist which also implies I’m an atheist. You’re taught to test it yourself to see if it works and to reject whatever is not grounded in reality. I’ve noticed a lot of us are well grounded in careers that use the scientific method and not the wishful thinking method.

    • It’s what we don’t have that they do – Kool-aid.

    • We read curriculums, and ignore ads.

    • two words: brain cells

    • Initially I was ‘hopeful’ about Edwards’ campaign, but after watching the first debate I became an HRC supporter.

      Damn, I love facts and details!

      Yes, I plead guilty to being a scientist (retired).

      There was never any chance that I would vote for Obama. When HRC was not the nominee, I voted for McKinney who was on the ballot in my state.

  15. http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2009a/06/124176.htm

    I just love Hillary. This is way more than PBO would do.

    • That’s awesome, esp. “anonymous Administration sources” are telling her she doesn’t have the authority to extend benefits at DOS. She will keep trying to save these fools from themselves.

      The Clintons–still the only non-sucky part of the Democratic Party.

      • Exactly. Hillary never stops doing good, huh?

        I still can’t figure out what Leftblogistan had against the Clintons.

        • They weren’t liberal enough, Bill got a blow-job and Hillary didn’t divorce him.

          Unlike Obama who is the perfect liberal and is without sin.

        • They were paid good money in ad revenue, to hate the Clintons. (some of them anyway-KB found some good stuff on that).
          The rest followed in a bahaviorist induced sort of way.

          Obama had a Consortium of Behavioral Scientists, a secret advisory group of 29 of the nation’s leading behaviorists, according to Time magazine.

          “People want to do what they think others will do,” says Cialdini, author of the best seller Influence. “The Obama campaign really got that.” (See pictures of Obama taken by everyday Americans.)

          The existence of this behavioral dream team — which also included best-selling authors Dan Ariely of MIT (Predictably Irrational) and Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein of the University of Chicago (Nudge) as well as Nobel laureate Daniel Kahneman of Princeton — has never been publicly disclosed, even though its members gave Obama white papers on messaging, fundraising and rumor control as well as voter mobilization.


        • Yeah, and Cinie has a paragraph from what’s his name’s new book where the whiny ass misogynistic corrupt moronic dip$&@” of the Senate told him to get rid of her because they hate her for “negative ads, spending too much money, and not being party loyal.” So in other words, any and all hypocritical, nonsensical projections dragged from under the rock of cluelessness, bring ’em in, we’re not fussy. Whatever you can scrounge, we’ll take.

        • That’s fantastic! That’s the problem with politics, too much respect for people’s intelligence, too little behavioral science. Thank you Obama for coming along to change that. Maybe he can be succeeded by Rev. Moon.

        • Bill Clinton was never supposed to win. He was not a part of their master plan but did an end run around them in “the middle” of their 8-year plan.

          That’s why both the Dems and the Repubs (the two-headed monster that they are) fought him tooth and nail. Yet the American people LOVED him. And they (the power broker bastards) hated him and hated his wife for screwing up their plans.

          Quite frankly, I would bet that if Bill didn’t upset their little apple cart, this mass transfer of wealth from our pockets to theirs would have occurred long ago.

          They were not about to let “HER” stop them again. Period.

          That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

  16. Speaking for myself only-I would far rather lay off Lambert bashing.

    • Sorry, but I guess I take getting called a racist ratfucker kinda personal.

      Maybe if he admitted he was wrong and apologized to all of us that he libeled I would feel different.

  17. I cannot find the mentions of the Confluence at your link. Any help?

    • I disagree that Corrente was about PUMA. VastLeft and Lambert are solid progressives and neither were “PUMA”.


      PUMA was born on sites like the Confluence. Lambert has consistently encouraged *skepticism against anyone claiming to stand for progressive ideals but doesn’t actually deliver* – for a long time.


      The fact that they distanced themselves from the PUMAs once the true colors of the PUMAs came out – as you have pointed out – is a positive thing in my mind.

      • Our true colors came out when it was discovered we didn’t think “you don’t hire the plumber’s wife to fix your pipes!!!!!” was a fantastic argument.

        Nice retcon, but all Hillary supporters were eeeeebil long before PUMA came along, that’s why there were driven out of the cesspool of the progressive blogosphere with pitchforks and torches. Conveniently forgotten, that. (And if I had a nickel for every time over the last 4 years I saw someone declare, “I will vote for Mccain, never, ever Clinton, I’d be a very rich woman. I remember when pledging to vote for the Republican was not only acceptable but ubiquitous).

  18. Just wanted to let y’all know that we are enjoying yet another public holiday over here (June 2)!!! 😀

  19. Bill Clinton was never supposed to win. He was not a part of their master plan but did an end run around them in “the middle” of their 8-year plan.

    The Dem leadership thought Poppy Bush was a lock to be reelected, so they let a small-state governor have the nomination so he could “take one for the team” while they set their sights on 1996.

    Then a funny thing happened on the way to the election.

    • eggggggzzzzzzaaaaaccccctttttly….

      It’s no coincidence that there is such a vile backlash from within over anything Clinton.

      • I think the worst part is how the Congressional Dems blamed the Big Dog for “losing” Congress. They did it to themselves.

        (and last year the Obots repeated that lie)

        • they’re going to lose Congress again if they don’t watch out, if the Republicans stopped running religious right wing nutterz, like Michael Steele wants, they’d gain ground again.

      • My pat answer for anyone who blurts out any of those ridiculous memes about Bill, Hillary or the Clintons in general is

        “do you have amnesia? Go see a doctor.”

  20. {{{contemplating how nice it is to be able to share a pleasant conversation over coffee with such smart people}}}

    Hubby leaves for work at 4:30am…but the Confluence is always open for business. 🙂

    • Yeah, except for the very wee hours. I’m usually all by myself (or with Laurie) at those times.

      LittleIsis has a new and very good thread started, BTW.

  21. Bill Clinton was never supposed to win. He was not a part of their master plan but did an end run around them in “the middle” of their 8-year plan.

    That’s why both the Dems and the Repubs (the two-headed monster that they are) fought him tooth and nail. Yet the American people LOVED him. And they (the power broker bastards) hated him and hated his wife for screwing up their plans.

    Quite frankly, I would bet that if Bill didn’t upset their little apple cart, this mass transfer of wealth from our pockets to theirs would have occurred long ago.

    They were not about to let “HER” stop them again. Period.

    That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

    It is my story also, SOD! You are so right about that. Psssshhht! Big Dawg was the best Prez we’ve had since FDR, no contest! I. LOVE. THE. CLINTONS.

    And bull shit about the Clintons not being “liberal enough”

    Bill was the first Prez to allow Wiccan chaplains in the military. Tell me what isn’t liberal about that, fools! :p

    New post upstairs, BBs!

  22. I went and posted. I would be more enthusiastic in following your call to arms if you wouldn’t use qualifiers such as:
    “PUMA-basher is some pissant no-list blogger/blogstalker”
    Last time I checked – even on your banner – there exists a PUMAsphere – there was one from the start. I wonder how many PUMAs are “no list”

    • Give a troll a blog and he’s still a troll.

      We try to promote good writing, but what do you call a blog with zero readership?

      • Too true.

        Thank you for doing your part in pointing out the hypocrisy, myiq. I don’t personally have the energy that you do.

    • I posted too.

      7of6, from the unknown blog “Left is Right” was being pretty nasty, referring to cwaltz’ comment as a “republi-KKKon” and plopping down choice bits of big-mouthing like this:

      Hate to say it, PUMA’s are still a few hundred strong freakshow that rears it’s ugly head on anniversaries.
      Posted by Seven of Six at June 1, 2009 06:13 PM

  23. Trying to promote the movement by salvaging the label is counterproductive — IMHO.

    • *shrugs* It doesn’t really matter, because it’s all disingenuous nonsense pushed by people with an agenda. No matter what we call ourselves, they’ll try to hang the kooks around our neck. It’s not like it’s an innocent mistake, they know what they’re doing.

      • I agree. They are doing this in order to have you give up using that name. PUMA is the stain of the 2008 Democratic Primary that won’t go away no matter what Obama and his supporters do. It is here to remind them of their crimes.

    • I mean, two days ago they were spreading the meme that Cinie is a birther and gay basher who was arrested at the airport, today it’s (hushed voices) “you remember the kinds of things that happened at the Confluence.” it doesn’t have to be true or even make sense.

      • Now they claim they were just joking.

        Meanwhile, one of them is using my cropped picture of G. Gordon Liddy in a thong as a graphic on his post bashing Liddy for his comments on Sotomayor.

        Cognitive dissonance should hurt.

        (he is also calling Amy Siskind a hypocrite because she didn’t post anything about the murder of Dr. Tiller.)

    • I quit using the PUMA label a while back but I have this obsessive-compulsive need to call out lies.

      “I had the right to remain silent, but not the ability” – Ron White

  24. It’s too bad about the squabbling tween Dems — however, real Dems know when they are not looking at Dems proper.

    Let’s see — the banks are f*cked, the car industry is f*ucked, the medical industry is f*ucked — and, out here you can ask the Term about all those lil kids who aren’t going to be getting anything, no? Anymore. And we are the dem state in CA, no? True.

    We have NK aiming at us, and China making the ears guy Geithner grovel.
    Somehow, I don’ t think Hillary or McC would have led us here, do you?


    Any Dem who has been around for awhile as a Dem?

    My guess on NK? given their philosophy of “Dear Leaderism” didn’t like the competition.– or the propaganda posters.

    Hugo might not either. There may be others too.

    Who don’t. You’ll see. Real Dems? — some will be expats perhaps? It all looks so damn bleak to actual Dems.

    Oh ps, MIQ — I read Larouche a time or two on Soros? methinks.
    Real Dems did their research……yes, they. did. From all kinds of sources.

  25. Like John Waters before him, LaRouche has been eclipsed by events. What is going on is just about as crazy as anything LLR has come up with….. Hell, I can’t even rule out the other guy who says the upper crust are shape changing lizards ……help!

  26. Wednesday night is the open house? I was just thinking it might be nice to have all that knowledge. Dunno. Time to go back to work or school. Something….


    SoCal Inst. Not that I ever expect to be a Soto-prototype….

  27. It’s really no different than during the primaries. Every time a new poll came out favoring Hillary, we knew because the paid trolls showed up. It’s really sad that Eriposte can’t interview this author about legitimate events that happened concerning Hillary and her supporters without the koolaid kids going into a fit. No one else has bothered to ask. I guess we’re all suppose to pretend it didn’t happen. Well, I’ve got news for ’em. I’ll NEVER forget.

    And I thank Eriposte for asking even if the answers were somewhat lacking. I couldn’t care less what the braindead Obots think about PUMAs. Let them live with their decision. Kinda like “those people” who voted for Bush. They’ll be back to take it out on us again before long. Whatever. Just another day in PUMAville.

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