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Late Night Open Thread: Hollywood and Male Social Dominance

(Note: Yes, I know it’s the Anniversary of THAT DAY, but we should see the glass as half full. Without this day, PUMA would never have been born!)

Kim Gandy, Caroline Kennedy, Naomi, and other stupid Obama Girls… this one is for you!

Several months ago, I did a post on my old blog about Hollywood and it’s effect on “Male Social Dominance,” as SOD often calls it. I am reposting it here, because I think it is worth discussing.

Some things I have to say about Hollywood:

1. Hollywood is, simply put, misogynistic.
Women that make it in Hollywood must have a certain body type. Impossibly tall. Thinner than is healthy or realistic, with ginormous jugs and a baby doll face. It is an odd, twisted version of a woman. Not only is it unattractive, it’s not womanly. Sure, some women are born with this body type and they work it. But women, like men, come in all shapes and sizes. And a lot of men I talk to tell me they like girls with “meat on their bones.” This translates to: “I like a woman who looks human, and actually like a woman.” I’m not sure, because I don’t happen to be a man, but I’d say a lot of men would take a curvy, gorgeous woman over some Supermodel.
See, that is what the patriarchy does. Women are told to not look like women, because women are not equal and/or less than human. That is why there are all these poor teenage girls committing suicide after gaining a pound. That is why there is anorexia and eating disorders. That is why you have all these female celebrities, such as Brit Spears, ruining their lives.

2. Celebrities. Look, I pay for these people to entertain me. It’s nice when they promote good causes. As far as I’m concerned, they are obligated too. They earn millions for pretending and/or taking pictures when there are millions of people working their asses off to take care of their families. As far as I’m concerned, I pay for celebrities to entertain me, because that is what they are for. Entertainment. Therefore, I do not give two shits about their political views, personal lives, opinions, ect. I do not pay them for that.

3. Female actors. I love many of them, because they are all so talented. But it seems to me like female actors are forced into roles that are much more restraining, because of the nature of Hollywood (even back in the 1950’s, Elizabeth Taylor could only play breathy helpless little girls.) Women actors must have those aforementioned supermodel bodies, else they are constantly ridiculed. (Case in point: Rosie O’Donnell. I like her. Always have.) Women actors seem to become irrelevant as they get older, or they are put in those roles that are restricting. But then you have these male actors, like Morgan Freeman and Jack Nicholson, and they have the most spectacular movie roles. Can you imagine a woman actor playing the type of roles that those two often play at their ages, and still being considered all wise and interesting? I think not. Pixie often has some silly reason or other for why she HATES some female actor or celebrity, but I’ve noticed she never has those feelings for male ones. Then again, Pixie often shouts to me, “I’m NOT some feminist like you!” (No offense, Pix. I am only using you as an example.)

4. There are really no female directors in Hollywood and there is a reason for that. Hollywood just seems to get worse and worse every year with some of it’s movies. I don’t mean that the movies are bad. I mean the sexualization of young girls. High School girls, really. I don’t get this. Producers probably like to think they have a snowball’s chance in hell with High School girls without getting their MasterCards stolen. I’m going to use Seth Rogen as an example. He is a deeply untalented, unattractive man. Yet, he produces and directs films, and they always involve some fat, hairy nasty loser (usually played by himself) managing to snag some gorgeous girl. As if that is actually possible in real life. I want to see some unattractive, loser girl directing and producing movies about her managing to snag some super hot rich guy. But that will never happen. And don’t try to mention Molly Ringwald movies from the eighties and She’s All That. because the girls in those movies were simply poor or unpopular, and they usually got some fantastic make over that made them Maxim material within three days.

5. Porn. It suffers the same consequences, for reasons aforementioned in number four. And men wonder why they are never sexually satisfied. Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against porn, but that is an industry that really needs to be feminized. I think Porn would be a lot more successful financially if it didn’t just attract men with inferiority complexes. Women, believe it or not, also have sexual desires beyond the corny sex scenes in Harlequin Novels. If the porn industry understood this and maybe tried to gear it’s movies towards gratifying women, it would likely enjoy a boom in prosperity. How’s that for an economic stimulus package?

So, the truth is, I love movies and celebrities as much as Mental Vertigo, but I choose not to obsess over it as much as she does. I just end up getting disappointed and mulling over all these things. Particularly when there are hardly any dead troubled women actresses for me to truly emulate with the honesty and sincerity with which Mental Vertigo emulates hers.

Open, Late Night Thread on this topic!

57 Responses

  1. I was reading some of the press coverage of Jon and Kate Plus 8, and it’s impossible to deny that the Obot types who write TV reviews and produce movies and all that have some serious, serious issues that would be better worked out in therapy than inflicted on the nation at large. When it doesn’t even seem to cross anyone’s mind that it might get a bad reaction to refer to some woman as a “succubus” for no particular reason or imply that the dreaded “soccer mom haircuts” are a mark of moral turpitude or many many other manifestations of craziness that pass without anyone noticing, there’s something wrong with our culture.

    • well, good Goddess, I have always noticed! But pointing it out always falls on deaf ears!

      But I suppose it is just like what Pink says in the song above, “I’m so Glad, that I’ll never fit in… that will never be me.”

  2. The Pink song/video was great. Thanks for post!

    I found enlightening a piece by Peter Howell, Film Critic for the Toronto Star newspaper (May 30):

    “Film’s New Fall Guy: Women”

    Peter Howell’s article is being read by hundreds of women now and I bet it’s going to start women thinking before they pay to see themselves being real-time raped on screen. This is an amazingly feminist perspective by a film critic who’s one of the best around….must be read.

  3. Oh, this is really rich. It seems Germany, in their fiscal restraint and wisdom, is calling on the Should-Have-Been President, because the actual President is too busy attending Broadway plays:

    Germany calls on Clinton to resolve GM fight

    Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the German Finance Minister, spoke by telephone today with Mrs Clinton to seek “support in the search for a solution,” his spokesman said. Mrs Clinton pledged to intervene to demand “the greatest possible American support” from Timothy Geithner, the Treasury Secretary, the spokesman added.


    • Germany should stop worrying about trivialities and call Barack for a review of “The Little Mermaid” or a breakdown of next year’s March Madness projections.

  4. Hi Isis!!

  5. My thoughts on “pron” — most of what’s out there are nothing more than patriarchal educational materials meant to “train” us wimmens on how we should be and what we should like regarding sex.

    Men have expectations developed based on pron which then is transferred to a ‘if the woman isn’t like this there’s something wrong with HER attitude.”

    • I know, it’s so wrong. Actually, the only porn I that has ever actually turned me on is gay porn. I watched french gay porn once at a party and these french guys with the most enormous p*nises ever were playing volleyball nekkid. It was so hot.
      I have also watched anime and dominatrix porn that I’ve liked, but only anime porn because those have an interesting plot.
      The problem with other types of porn is what you’ve mentioned. At reclusive leftist there was an amazing post that violet did about “blood porn” and other types of porn that seem to emulate torturing women.
      Now, I have nothing against S&M but I always thought it should go both ways. It seems to me like in porn like that only women are tortured and degraded.
      I agree with what Colbert says: “There is nothing more beautiful than two people in a committed relationship doing something unspeakably debasing.”
      That is my attitude, and besides, it’s not all bad. Seems to like a lot of men like being dominated, but they are usually very secure with their own manliness. They strike me as types who don’t mind gay men either, because the idea of a man who likes other men doesn’t make them so insecure that they have to become homophobes.

  6. Maybe if females started demanding 60 minute men instead of putting up with 60 second males with inflated egos thing would change.



  7. When I see all the hurtfulness and hatefulness that contaminate sexuality in our patriarchal world, I wonder if I’m not actually lucky to be a 46-year-old virgin.

    • You’re only 46? Wow, I thought you were a lot older, you say a lot of really profound, wise things.

      • what Seriously said!

        • Well, thanx both of you.

          Now that Beaker Street’s over, I need to do my laundry, so I’ll be going offline for a while. [I work weeknights, so I won’t be going back to work until late Monday afternoon.]

  8. Don’t get me started pr0n. Some of that stuff is horrifying. I’m not usually one to condemn anyone’s kinks, but I was five seconds from dialing the FBI at any given time.`

    I’m still flailing.

  9. I am usually just a lurker. But stupid me I went huffington post and read an excerpt of richard wolffe’s book. Apparently every democratic senator hated hillary and bo was never going to help hillary pay off her debt. Also, hillary knows not to mess with bo according to him. If you want to get pissed off all over again just read the first paragraph.

    • I don’t think I’ll bother. I’d rather keep those noodles I just ate down.

      • Yeah, what else is new. bo is a liar, thug, and a()$@@”$. Knew that. The Democratic Senators are misogynistic corrupt do-nothing dip()$&@ and find a kindred spirit in Barack. Knew that too.

    • Don’t believe that bull. Obama always needed Hillary more than she needed him. Hillary never needed Obama. She would have stayed in the senate and done work well. It is also not true that all the senators didn’t want her back. I still believe Obama was forced to offer Hillary the SOS position. His “I will not beg” is bull.

    • why did EVERY dem senator hate hillary?

      • I think they all liked her personally, but as President she would have kicked their ass and actually made change happen. Like Bill did when he became president.

    • About the time that Barack has to start proving he’s worthy of PennsylvAnians’ or anyone else’s votes.

      Long about never.

  10. I would love to see a convoy of dump trucks filled with the sludge from the mountain top removal travel first to Washington and dump it on the steps of congress and then the white house lawn. Then to the home of every senator and representative and dump on their front steps.
    They should have to live with the results of their actions.



    • A-freaking-men!

      Helen, are you also a fan of the old series “WKRP In Cincinnati”? Your suggestion reminds me of a suggestion Johnny Fever made in one episode, where during a sanitation workers’ strike, he suggested that people take their garbage and dump it on the steps of City Hall. :mrgreen:

    • No kidding. When I watched a video that showed a woman in Virginia turn on her tap and fill a glass with thick brown water, it turned my stomach. Try giving that to your kids, or serving it with Kobe beef at a White House dinner. As angienc used to say, this admin is filled with “lying liars.”

  11. And file this under “no suprises here…”
    {{{{ crickets crickets }}}}

  12. […] More:  Late Night Open Thread: Hollywood and Male Social Dominance « The … […]

  13. I know I’m late to the thread, but I couldn’t help but comment. I just finished reading a post at noquarter by a well intentioned, yet misguided man who essentially concluded that all women have to do to gain equality is work harder and apply for the top jobs. (I doubt if he has any clue how many sexist stereotypes he included in his post.)

    Many people don’t seem to realize how sexist our society still is (and in some ways, at least in respect to the sexualization of young girls, I think it’s even worse than it was in the past).

  14. I hate the term “actor” used instead of “actress.” What’s the big deal? We’re supposed to hide the fact that the person in question is a woman? And now we have to gunk up writing with the heavy addition of “female actor” when a perfectly good serviceable word exists to define the same thing? What, “female actor” is p.c. but “actress” is sexist…WTF???

    Ridiculous. Just like at work, it drives me batshit insane that we have to change every single non-specific reference in an article to “he or she” and “his or her” and it gunks up the fluidity of the writing for no earthly goddamn reason. Like any reader is going to think “Gee, I guess only men exist in the world because they only used ‘he’ in this sentence….” Or ‘Oh since they referred to the hyypothetical doctor as ‘she’ that must mean only women can be doctors.” Honestly, does anyone really believe that???

    I really hate this nonsensical p.c. shit. (And I say this as someone who was a professional actress in my past life–and proud to call myself one.)

    • Amen, sister. I particularly hate the “person”isms– chairperson, mailperson, etc. What is wrong with “chairwoman?”– a damn fine methinks.

  15. Little Isis — YES, the misogynism in Hollywood is getting worse, and I think the fact that so many baby boomer actresses are wrecking their faces with Botox, silicone injections, etc. is a testament to that.

    I strongly believe the introduction of the Hayes Code had a lot to do with this. Before Hayes, most movies of the 1930’s involved strong female protagonists and scripts that were written by women; Subject matter was also mature and adult themed (“When Two Women Meet” is an exceptional example). Then Hayes came, and women were reduced to playthings and other acceptable roles to the male sensitivities and psyche.

    But just a couple of notes — Ida Lupino was a great female director and actress who if you’ve never seen her movies, are really worth your time. As far as Elizabeth Taylor, partly her voice really is like that but she also developed into a real actress of substance — “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf” is a testament to that as well. Her depiction of a woman who is trying to escape torments from her past through alcohol and sex is really really worth watching. The twist at the end revealed through her relationship with Richard Burton’s character reminds me of a movie from the ’30’s.

    Since I’ve gotten older I’ve watched more movies from that pre-Hayes Code era, thanks to Turner Classic Movies.

  16. Hollywood just does not know how to write for women especially older women. Bette Midler mentioned this last month. She said Hollywood was sexist. There have been some women who have portrayed strong women. Actress like Joan Crawford, Dori Day, Sigourney Weaver, Jodie Foster, Cathy Bates, Mary Stuart Masterson, Paula Prentiss, Maggie Smith and Bette Davis. I think she would have been a good director had she tried it. I saw a documentary about her where they mentioned how she guided the director of Now, Voyager. She knew what she wanted and made him follow her orders. Because of her, the movie was great.

    I think if you want to find strong female characters, one has to look at tv-series. That’s where they are or were. Don’t watch much tv now.

  17. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS. Playboy has a section of it’s site titled “Conservative women they’d like to hate F*ck”.
    My god, liberals disgust me now. This is truly outrageous. I can’t take this sh*t anymore.


  18. Thank you littleisis.

    I am sorry to say, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very sorry to say that there is more gender diversity within the top ranks of many large industries such as Pharma, Insurance, Banking, etc. Xerox and PepsiCola are run by women.
    We see no such thing in Hollywood. That is very telling.

    Hollywood “liberalism” is contained to being a “pop liberal”, one who promoted popular causes such as global warming (while flying private jets and driving their Gladenwagens and Land Rovers while living in 20,000 square foot mansions pissing away energy resources).

    I have never respected Hollywood. My disrespect for them predates their infatuation with Mr. Obama. I was skeptical of them from the time I was 12. That predates Bush II tenure for the record.
    How women are built, naturally speaking, should look like in my view:

    Hollywood is not pro woman, never has been, and most likely will never be.

    I was not aware of the song “Hollywood Is Not America”. Thank you for posting it.

  19. On the other hand, there are all those tv shows featuring attractive young ladies who kick men in the heads– Alias, In Plain Sight, Chuck, SVU, (well, Medium not so much head busting [some little head busting maybe]), so the movies are biased but tv seems less so,

  20. I think it is even worse for black women and not only in movies but in tv-series too. When I was a kid, I watched shows like 227, Living Single and Family Matters which all had strong black women in them. None of them were dramas but still it is better than today’s shows. The last strong female black characters I ever watched in tv-series were from 24 – Alberta Green and the great Sherry Palmer. Vivian Johnson from Without A Trace is great too. It is as though Hollywood can not write for black women.

  21. Great analysis, littleisis. Even though sexism was rife in old Hollywood movies, at least they showed women of every age and body type (there were older women, often stout, in supporting roles) and many of the female characters had AGENCY. They might have done some rotton stuff, as in film noir, but the female characters were not just emaciated sex objects.

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