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Afrocity Says…Lets Hang up the Chick Habit and Riot Grrls!!!!


I try not to show it much but being recognized as a PUMA is very important to me.

I imagine myself standing in a room filled with PUMA women of all ages, colors and backgrounds. We are a circle of sisters who will not be treated like shit. A moral and intellectual force and we have all just been through hell.

I step forward and say.

My name is Afrocity and I am a Republican (there I said it) and I want to be a PUMA.

It is March 2009 and I was thinking this scene out for sometime as I awaited surgery at a local women’s hospital. I had uterine polyps. I was bleeding and in pain.  Nevertheless, I felt special because it was a women’s specialty hospital- only us girls and everything was trimmed in breast cancer awareness -pink.  I saw an older woman being wheeled into the OR, her daughter behind her with an OBAMA tote bag. Hmmm I did not vote for the man but matter what, we are still women. No one can change that. She pees sitting down and so do I.

I put my Ipod on. I have a PUMA playlist you know. It is all Riot Grrl music. The third wave feminist girl bands. Bratmobile, April March, Jack Off Jill… The drugs they gave to me were kicking in. The nurse looked at me and smiled. I wondered if she would still smile at me if she knew I was conservative. The last song I remembered before they wheeled me into surgery was April March’s “Chick Habit”.

hang up the chick habit
hang it up, daddy,
a girl’s not a tonic or a pill
hang up the chick habit
hang it up, daddy,
you’re just jonesing for a spill

oh, how your bubble’s gonna burst
when you meet another nurse
she’ll be driving in a hearse

you’re gonna see the reason why
when they’re spitting in your eye
they’ll be spitting in your eye

I thought yes we need to hang up the chick habits, all get along and PUMA will be spitting your eye.

You may have noticed that I have been absent from The Confluence.

After a long and stressful election year I needed some time to myself.

I was tired of the Rasmussen polls and Obamabots. I felt overloaded by the imagery of sexism, race baiting and misogyny. I lost my race, my color, my gender. The thread I hung by was PUMA and that thread was breaking I felt, because I was a conservative.

During the election I really had no where to turn. I frequented Jake Tapper’s Political Punch Blog at ABCNEWS.com. There I experience a daily forced fed diet of Kool Aid and Hillary Hate Bars, full of energy with hope and change, packed with the extra fiber of racial pandering and humiliation. Hillary lost the primary. I felt personally defeated.

What was I going to do? Vote for McCain? It was almost impossible to comprehend. I had been a Democrat my entire life. I was an African American woman- it was craziness. I wanted to vote for John McCain. I had always admired his service to his country, his time as a POW, his maverick stance. It did not help that the left had fallen from grace in my eyes. For some time they had metamorphosed from dutiful donkeys to hypocritical assholes. “Hmmm which voting block will we pimp this time?” I’d had enough. Hillary was my last hope in the DNC and now she was gone. I wanted to go Republican but all the force of my racial sensibility told me not to. The only thing liberal about me was my pro-choice position. How could I? I would sit out the election.

One day, I went to the blog to pass the time away. Expecting the same ol’ Obamabutt garbage. Quick! Here come the sheeple. Get the Kool Aid! Fetch and Carry.

Today I was wrong.

Someone posted.


Catchy phrase I thought. Just like the Howie Mandel game show. A week went by and I saw it again and again.

One lone poster: PUMA PUMA PUMA PUMA

I Googled it and saw sneakers…athletic gear…then a gem…It was Riverdaughter. THE CONFLUENCE.

At first I lurked and laughed. It was the epitome of estrogen and political snark.

Dare I post? I put a toe into the pool, then a leg, a body.

Afrocity was in, AngieNC grabbed my hand SOD was there, Madamab. Hi there Mr. Clown and Fuzzy, Simonfish. The water was refreshing and clear of Kool Aid.

Through PUMA, I gained unlikely acquaintances. Women I would never meet in real life. Along the way the wounds were terrible. Gotcha interviews, pigs with lipstick, Sarah Palin open debate threads, our PUMA eyes wide and keyboards tapping to her defense. We were like dolls in a museum, stripping off our gingham and corsets. We would no longer allow ourselves to be political ornamentation.

We were honing a message. Whispers from “Camp Chosen One” turned into threats and slurs. We were demonized as Menopausal Mollies who hated Obama. We were called the “R word”. Yes even me… We marched together on Election Day and cast our ballots. Many votes were in protest, others in earnest, a few mentally at home. The un-vote. Still, no matter how we voted, no matter how difficult it was that the vote was not for SHE, there was an undeniable bond of unity and we all found ourselves NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA.

I am a Republican but to me and the many other conservative and independent voting women that I know- we admire the PUMA cause as we lurk here. We watch with much interest as the PUMA question is answered. What is your mission. Will it include us?

Women of all political parties need to look for ways to simultaneously embrace women’s rights. Defiant political posture is a means to an end in the face of rising discrimination on the basis of our sex.

What happened during the election happened to both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin.

We should come together and avail ourselves of liberal and conservative tools- every divisive tool of patriarchic propaganda. Let’s widen our base and broaden our message.

Ceilings must shatter at the White House. As women, we should challenge the concept of the executive branch as ONLY masculine and the congressional branch as tolerably feminine.

We need collaboration to overcome the current divide. This past election told us much as ourselves not only as conservatives or democrats, blacks, whites, gays or straight but as women. Together we can advance in parallel directions. We can combat the horizontal fraternization between the patriarchy and the media. We can unburden ourselves of critical surveillance and revisionist History i.e. SHE IS STUPID, ONLY A ROOM WHERE HE COMES OUT, SHE IS PERIODICALLY DOWN.

Otherwise our work is in vain. Hidden in plain sight and the gendered assaults will continue.

Please lets hang up the chick habits. Let’s RIOT GRRLS

Then my operation is over and I have opened my eyes.

Autographed Letter Signed,



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331 Responses

  1. Yay!!! I’m glad to read this!

  2. So glad to see you and read this great blog, afrocity! Alas – gotta go pick up the munchkin from daycare.

  3. Welcome to the front page!

  4. Yeah!!!!

    • yeah BABY!!! missed you so much while you were gone…..

      I for one will never let the ones around me republican/conservative bash again.

      We have more in common than we think we do….. left, right, in between …the PTB have been playing all of us for fools. NO MORE.

      • That’s my attitude too. Everytime I see a Republican being bashed, I picture it happening to my Republican grandparents (they’re gone now, but still). We need to come together and find common ground.

        Isn’t that what Obama used to say before he went back on all his promises?

        • BB:

          Republicans of yesteryear have nothing in common with (watch your language MABlue) what we have today.

          Check out the national leadership of the party: I challenge to come up with a more laughable collection of bozos.

          • Barack Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and the anti-choice governor of VA Tim Kaine. Will that do to start?

          • Yes, I remember the Rockefeller Repblicans, the Henry Cabot Lodge Republicans. They’d be blue dogs today.

          • My point is that I want some civility, and I don’t like the utter lack of journalistic ethics in the media. I’ve had it with the smearing–on both sides.

    • I love your style, attitude and just who you are!!! Glad you a front pager 😀

  5. Terrific post, afrocity. Your attitude and energy here are infectious and it’s so good to see you back here at TC. Keep writing, please!

  6. Hi Afrocity!! I love this post! Thank you so much for writing this. It’s inspiring to learn how you found us. Maybe we all should start leaving our website addresses around as graffitti–write them in the ladies room too!

    • I agree. We should also make subtle bumper stickers. Somethng that will catch peoples interest. Kinda like the ones that said “1/21/09” and nothing else. I like “Principle before Party” myself.

  7. Thanks SOD…I see you are making an great effort at my blog to keep the relations open.

  8. You rock SO HARD, afrocity.

    It is the fact that people like you exist, and I have come to know you, that makes me no longer make sweeping pronouncements about “conservatives are…” or “Republicans think…..” And I cringe when I hear them made. All of us have been stepping outside our boxes, our comfort zones, and realizing that really listening to one another is kind of cool, whether we reach the same conclusions about solutions or not. I don’t want any us divided anymore, but I especially don’t want we women divided.

    Eyes wide open, bitchez, let’s give each other the dignity of thought, the fist pump of shared struggle, the courtesy of “you are a serious whole person, you woman, and I refuse to minimize you.” We sink or swim together, whether our courses are joined or only parallel or even sometimes at odds. Man the life preservers, kick hard, throw a rope, pass the tequila or the sunscreen as needed. We sink or swim together.

    • Well said, WMCB!

    • Hey WMCB, with that kind of colorful prose, when are YOU going to write a front page post??

      • i’ve been wondering that for awhile.

        thoroughly enjoy your posts, WMCB.

    • Well said from me too wmcb!

      We do indeed sink or swim together. Like afrocity says, we all sit down to pee.

      Okay guys, maybe not all of us, but all of us women do.

  9. Every time I witness PUMA against PUMA attacks, it reminds me of my mother sitting in the kitchen listening to my sisters and I fight. (It is always their fault.) It breaks her heart. I agree with you, anyone that wants to be a PUMA is a PUMA. Republican, Democrat , Independent, AA, white, women , men, gay , straight, Christian, Jew , Agnostic, Atheist. The more the merrier. No one gets to keep the “Master PUMA list “. We need to stop all this crazy talk and fighting on PUMA blogs. In the immortal words of Rodney King, why can’t we all just get along.

    We have so much passion and power and drive within the movement, we need to stop killing it.

    • Yes!!!

    • And don’t forget clowns.

    • I said this earlier on a RW blog – truth doesn’t have a wing.

      When we label things “conservative” or “liberal” and “Democrat” or “Republican” what we’re implying is that those labels indicate “right” and “wrong”

      We might as well just use “us” and “them”

      • Yup. Maybe because I’m a practical soul, but I always figure that every policy has its benefits and its downside. Both have to be weighed. When either side tells me their way, their vision, is all roses, with no trade-offs whatsoever I immediately call bullshit.

        I ain’t into ponies and hopenchange, no matter which wing is selling them. Life is hard. Governing is hard. Fairness and freedom are hard, and not always in concert.

      • I really appreciate your intellect and your humor. and your insight. not that my opinion matters, but I wanted you to know….

    • “No one gets to keep the “Master PUMA list “. —Honora

      EXACTLY!!!!! I want PUMA to be more inclusive. Build the numbers.

  10. oh, don’t say “fist bump” that brings back bad memories.

    • Well, I thought of that, but then I thought, “Fuck ’em. The O’s don’t OWN it, and I’ll snatch it back if I damn well want.”

  11. I’m going to have to check out some of this music. I didn’t even know there were third wave feminist bands.

    • Boomer Riot Grrls are great. The songs are very political. Left leaning but we all can relate to them.

    • I’m delighted to finally find some third wave feminists/ I was beginning to think we would have to reincarnate.

  12. Wonderful post Afrocity. It really captures what PUMA has meant to all of us, left, right and middle. We have so much common ground and even though I still consider myself far left, I’m committed to doing something really “dangerous”: Voting for the 51%. Republican or Democrat or third party, the women candidates will get my vote.

    (And it such a relief to finally see a PUMA with music tastes closer to my own!)

    • I thought we all mostly like Rock/Punk music.
      Boomer does look like a Beethoven girl

      • No, I still listen to rock ‘n roll, but I haven’t kept up with the new music since I’ve been in school. I like the blues best.
        I’m a huge Etta James fan.

        • I’m particularly fond of Ruth Brown. Gotta give a shout out to the Baltimore talent!

        • That darn Etta James….twice now I have driven all the way to Dallas to see her in concert and twice now she has cancelled the show!!!

          Afrocity, it is beyond fabulous to see you here on the front page! I hope to see you here often!

      • I guess I’m hanging out on the wrong blogs . 😀

        TNA and RL are going bonkers over Susan Boyle and I just have to bite my fingers. She has a lovely voice and I wish her well but I won’t be rushing out to buy her cd.

  13. {{Afrocity}}

    This is lovely — wonderful — uplifting — warm…. Thank you very much for writing & sharing it.

    I’m going to edit it to add the Digg & Share links (lazy me, I’ve been forgetting)

  14. Keep up the good work Afrocity. Palin 2012

    • PUMAs I would like you to meet Avid Editor, a conservative friend from the “Conservative Coffee House”

    • Hi, Avid Editor — Welcome to The Confluence!

    • Yes – welcome!

    • Hi Avid Editor!

    • Hullo, and welcome! I hope you guys can make some noise and slap some sense into your party, and we can slap some sense into ours. A lot of us out here are tired of not being heard by either party.

      Most PUMAs are into figuring out solutions that will WORK for this country, and screw where it fits on the (entirely false/contrived IMO) right-left spectrum. Maybe if we all work together we can get some sanity in our process, and some respect back into the debate – whether we agree on all things or not.

  15. Afrocity-IF you were a Guy I would run off to Iowa with you and get married!

    Of course I would gain wieght faster than Perez Hilton…the way we would both cook!

    Speaking of Perez Hilton (putting on the Pounds) he really screwed Miss California last night with the gay marriage question…

    PH: Miss California since Vermonts legislature recently extended marriage rights to same sex couples do you think the rest of the states should junp on the band wagon and do it to? (or words to that effect) {Thunderous Audience Applause}

    Miss California: I dont want to offend anyone…(that should of told you she was about to offend a whole bunch of people) but I believe as my mom and dad taught me that mariage is between a man and a woman. {silence some scattered applause) jeeze!

    Ms South Carolina got the obama question and of course won the contest!

  16. Wonderful comment and exactly on target. Most of my friends are Republicans and I have voted for both parties in my state, but for some years have generally voted in the Democratic primary. I have not liked what the Republican Party has done since Reagan, but this year I voted for McCain/Palin.

    Women do have the power to overcome what happened to us during this past election, and everywhere and everyplace where I can, I speak out against sexism, belittlement, and misogyny. I am getting ready to vote in a city council election and although our newspaper supported the new young guy (I like him, too.), I will vote for the one woman running for mayor. Also, I am trying to use what modest buying power I have for companies that do not use sexism — whether it is patronizing language or misogyny — and to support those who operate without bias. Some stores, I outright boycott, although I have been the only one to do so for some time, I think.

    We must overcome all of this — together!

    Thank you again, Afrocity.

  17. wow, afrocity, inspiring!

  18. hi.
    I too am a PUMA in so many ways. I am a feminist, but belive that feminisim has left me behind. women who deviate from the “feminist approved thought” get bashed. Dont belive in abortion? you cant be one of us! like men somtimes? YOu cant be serious! BUt i belive women should be free to be respected AS WOMEN.
    WE need to stop attacking each other.
    We need to stop accepting anti-feminine ideas like “traditional stay at home motherhood is selling out your dreams.” well maybe its somebodys dream. Ok sister, you go!
    Just like being an embalmer, being a wife can be a serious calling.
    BUt women shape the world.
    moms shape the world.
    we have power.
    BTW… I have no kids tho it was my dream. Im single and almost fourty. Im a stallion trainer who likes men, and im pretty.
    Some feminist friends disparaged me becuse i wore “cute clothes” (who can take you seriously?) because my hair was too long (That looks ridiculous. Cut that mop!) because i like relationships with non metrosexual men (How can you stand that barbarian!) They really hated it when i told them i find Geldings boring to ride and useless in bed….
    But we are sisters.
    we need each other and we need to stop this fighting. I agree with afro.
    Its poison.
    when i revealed i was in an abusive relationship, i was told to “grow a spine and get out!”

    Ok what part of dangerous freak do they not get? I asked for help. I got no help from my feminist friends and ened up being saved by a mormon woman and a marine. They understood. They helped. They didnt look at me and see a pretty affluent white woman in a nice home with many horses. They saw a woman living in terror in a gilded cage.

    This is so sad.

    we need to stop with the classest and political divisions and take care of each others a sisters, all with each womans equally valid and unique vision of self, and i think we could change alot.
    This is my dream.
    feminism without politics that embraces the individual in a buddha like manner if seeing each person as not as separate and alien, but as a different facet of who we could be, had we just turned a different corner in life.

    • EVERYONE THIS IS KARAGUSH. ONE OF MY BEST conservative gal pals. Please welcome Kara, she is a gem and so beautiful and strong.

      Kara is a PUMA please welcome all the conservative women who want to build a bridge.

    • Hi Kara!

    • I’m glad to meet you, Karagush — thank you for your wonderful comment.

      I agree with so much of it….

    • This is my dream.
      feminism without politics that embraces the individual in a buddha like manner if seeing each person as not as separate and alien, but as a different facet of who we could be, had we just turned a different corner in life.

      This is great. Bravo.

      • WMCB, thank you so very much. Its how i try to see each person i meet. Male or female, and i live by it. Sometimes i fail and get frustrated, but its who i want to be.

    • As we say out here in the west – “Howdy”

    • MY dream is a feminism that says sexual violence against women is bad AND MEANS IT — not sexual violence against women is bad but it someone threatens it against that bitch over there who isn’t one of us, then we’ll turn a blind eye.

      How about a feminism that says that we have to stop valuing men over women AND MEANS IT, instead of a feminism that’s ready to play the compromise game with every anti-choice male Democratic politician that comes down the pike but playacts at being “tough” by spitting bile in the face of an anti-choice WOMAN who at least had the damned kid and walked the walk.

      Or a feminism that says that it’s as important to gain FEMALE allies as it is to make the boys like us, because men AREN’T inherently more important than women. Instead, we get a feminism that slides over to the other side of the bed repeatedly when Hubby gives a shove, then wonders why it’s hanging on the edge — but that savages a woman who steps one toe out of line.

      And you know what? I AM the traditional woman’s nightmare. Unmarried, I don’t like men, I don’t like sex, I don’t care about makeup and shaving my legs or any of that girly crap. What I DO like is a feminism that says that rape is bad, men aren’t inherently more important, and backstabbing isn’t feminist — and STICKS TO IT, instead of cheerleading sexual violence against the “wrong” woman, stabbing women in the back so their Dreamboat Mayun can get ahead, and selling out everything they hold dear to make Almighty Him like them.

      • I’d like a feminism that calls what happens in places like Afghanistan what it is – fucking slavery and female apartheid. I’d like to see it taken just as seriously as slavery and beatings and buying and selling and subjugation of MEN has always been.

        I’d like to see a feminism that shuts the fuck up about women’s choices to marry, not marry, have kids, not have kids, work, not work, shave, not shave, and vote for who we fucking want.

        I’d like to see a feminism that realizes that the whole POINT is that we can make the choices we want, and ought to be supported in those choices by each other. I’d like to see a feminism that is not tied as a handmaid to any fucking party or political ideology – because it’s about US, not about the approval of THEM (who are mostly male.)

        • wmcb, you had me up to the shave part. i’m just a creature of my environment after all. i’m disappointed in me.

        • Here, here WMCB!

        • And a feminism that calls rape evil EVEN WHEN IT HAPPENS TO WOMEN THEY DON’T GODDAMNED LIKE.

          Any woman who thinks rape is bad, except for this one bitch over here who had it coming, is a woman who is invested in keeping rape around.

        • I study Central Asia, and when 911 happened i was my small town resident go to expert on “those people” and “why do they hate us?”
          what said is that they dont even know us, and we dont really care to know them either.

          i want our feminist sisters to start to care about FGM child marriages and the voices you can see posting at various sites (I will try to find you some good links ) where girls will write in saying “My parents are trying to marry me off. I am 14, i want to go to school, what do i do?”

          These are site not usually meant for us comfortable americans either.
          I want to help. I want more of us to help. I want more people to care less about code pink (who protest in an ideal land compared to pakistan and Central Asia) and more about helping those girls!

          My fantasy is for an underground railroad for every woman and girl that needs it out of those places.

          • My fantasy is for an underground railroad for every woman and girl that needs it out of those places.

            Amen. When that video came out of that poor girl being beaten, I wanted my country to announce that any woman or girl who wanted safe passage out of that hellhole would be given a military escort, an immediate priority visa, and a flight here with help on the end, no questions asked. I can dream.

          • Me too Karagush.

          • I love the underground railroad idea. A vast network of women (and men) quietly getting the job done. Giving girls freedom from tyranny.

        • WMCB,

          You could have been peeking inside my head and finding all the good parts when you wrote this. That is exactly how I feel and have always felt.

          Why are we so concerned about the choices other women make? What the hell difference does it make? Who the hell are we to judge them?

          Like Janis, I want to see a feminist movement that cares every bit as much about what happens to women we don’t like as we care about what happens to women who are friends and family. Otherwise, it’s just a bowel movement so far as I’m concerned. There, try and get that picture out of your head.

      • janis….I love every single thing you said. I want you to write a book and I will buy it.

        • I tried writing a book a long time ago, like twenty years. My eyes exploded from anger every fifteen minutes, so I gave it up.

    • That’s beautiful Kara. Welcome…I feel this way too about being sisters, and to hear my “liberal” friends bashing Palin with such disgust and disdain pained me. It violated everything they claimed to value.

  19. I would vote republica:

    1) if they would realize that goverment should be the fair umpire instituted by the people for the people and of the people. THe job of goverment is to keep the playing field fair to allow every one a chance at the american dream and tokeep the big boys from running our lives.

    2) realize that LGBT and Womens rights are Human rights and say to the right wing nutbag religious zealots-“look everyones freedom is deminished if anyone’s freedom is deminished including gays and women”.

    3) in the same vein they would leave the behind the the mixing of religion and politics…the SBC nor the penticostal movement not even the catholic church has the moral authority to dictate to the people what what is right and good. Until they take stock of their own greed and self serving actions.

    4) and foremost admit that their are some functions that government must preform because thay are outside the profit motive realm of enterprize. Things like National Defence Education and maintenance of a social safety-net and yes even healthcare.

    5) In other words be more like Teddy Roosevelts Republican Party than Ronald Reagans Republican Party.

  20. Take time to take a look at my blog roll. We are diverse. Black Conservatives, Gay and Lesbian Conservatives, Jewish.
    Some voted for Hillary too. Most are tired of the media controlling our lives

    Many of the gay conservatives were outraged by Prop 8.
    These are things we can all work together on.

    • I know my shipmate/stateroom mate on the Ingersoll was once treasuer of log cabin republicans…

      not all republicans are fundie republicans they just give you a bad name…

  21. This is the kinda thing that really annoys me – some RWers are upset because Obama shook Chavez’ hand, and so some lefties are upset because the RWers are upset.

    Jeez, what was POTUS supposed to do, slap the guy’s face?

    (pretty bad diplomacy to do that)

    • I want him to do a book report on the book Chavez gave him. It sounded interesting, but I don’t read Spanish.

      • Neither does Obama

        • But he does know the words “hope” and “change” in 6 million forms of communications…including Vulcan and Klingon including in the “binary code of moisture evaperators” on Tatoonie….

          • That would be “Bocche”

            That was the question Luke’s uncle Owen asked about C3PO – “Does he speak Bocche?”

    • LOL Myiq. I agree. He does have to be diplomatic. The problem is that he treated Chavez with more respect than he did Hillary or Sarah. Chavez called Obama derogatory names too.

    • I think the reaction to that by the RW is overblown, but I do understand it.

      It’s sort of like…..if I walk into a bar and my husband is leaning close and smiling broadly and chatting amiably with a pretty young thing, that’s totally innocent. Unless, of course, he’s had a habit of screwing around all over town, in which case I might view that “innocent” tableau through a very different filter.

      • and we all know Pampers has never whored out his integrity for anything or to anyone…he is like the head mistress of a nunnery-above reproach…

        (note: A nunnery was a whorehouse in shakespear’s time)

    • I think he went out of his way to be an ass to Ortega. He could have just not said anything or said something polite but mealy mouthed. I understand no potus is going to recite the litany of us crimes against central America, I don’t expect that, but he didn’t have to be petulant and didactic. Diplomacy is good.

      • I thought what he said to Ortega was kind of rude, but the guy is tone deaf, so no surprise.

    • I thought he should have let it ripped as he gripped Chavez hand, and apologized “so sorry… lactose intolerant”

    • I don’t agree–I think this is another example of BO’s cluelessness. Chavez knew how to work that moment (and the cameras) for maximum effect, and Obama was a complete patsy. Can you see Hillary being slap-happy with Chavez and happily receiving a propaganda tool from him? He does not understand the power of appearance in foreign policy.

  22. Welcome afrocity! Great post.

  23. I guese the latins are not buying the Hopey Dopey Changey Waingy thing…dont have koolaid south of the border?

  24. Nice article!

  25. This post was such a breath of fresh air — I’m sick of everything being seen in one way, especially since that one way has proved itself so hollow. I refuse to call myself a Democrat, but I don’t want to be a Republican either. I’m not anything; that’s the one thing this election demonstrated to me more than anything else: labels don’t matter. You’re either for the entrenched power system or for plain people.

    I don’t even want to think about what this whole election proved to me about feminism. I am pro-choice, I’m pro-same sex marriage, I’m pro-closing the wage gap, I’m pro-career, I have no husband and no kids and never want any. Fine, I’m the wife-hating career bitch that good little girls fear turning into in a Feminist Takeover.

    But what did I learn about feminism this year? They made so much noise about sexism, and they sat and let it happen whe it was directed against a woman who wasn’t in their little clique. They hate rape, but when it was bandied around as a payback for Sarah Palin daring to run against their Feminist Dreamboat Boy, they were conspiciously silent. They claim to support other women, but when the time came to knife one in the back so a man could get ahead, they couldn’t jab it in fast enough.

    I thought when they said sexism, sexual harassment, and rape were bad that they meant it. I believed them. Turns out they like rape and sexism just fine, at least if they reserve a little bit of it to one side because it might come in handy someday. Like the government settnig aside a little vial of smallpox virus just in case, you know?

    Don’t even get me started about how willing they are to go back on every principle they claim to care about just to “gain allies.” They love to go on about that: “We need to gain allies!” What sort of allies? And what principle are they willing to sell out to do it?

    And for whom? I get the distinct feeling that they would be willing to sell out anything and everything to gain a conservative MAN’S support, but a conservative woman? Guess again, bitch. I’d like to hear ONE principle they’d be willing to bend on to gain the friendship of a moderate-to-conservative woman. They’ll hold their noses and vote for all the anti-choice MEN the Dems run, but Sarah Palin? Kill the bitch!

    They sicken me. All those hypocrites. I thought they were against sexual violence against women, valuing men more highly and backstabbing other women, and it turns out they like it just fine. Just like any other patriarchally-brainwashed trophy-wife wannabe.

  26. fuzzy, the problem with Chavez for me was, he could care less about huma rights, his opponents go missing fgs.. and OUR representative smiled broadly as if it mattered not.
    that’s why my anger.

  27. Karagush and Janis’s comments have caused tears, both are right, i have felt like a tool of either party this election, not a woman that mattered.

    • Willow, I’m so sickened by it all. I know that everyone will read and misinterpret my comments is the worst part. Everyone will read it and despite the obvious statements I’m making, think I’m going on about how The Big, Bad Feminists Don’t Like Me Because I Like Sex And Glitter Eyeshadow.

      It’s not that I’m not feminist anymore, I suppose. I’m just realizing that THEY aren’t, and never were.

    • I dont want you to cry. Please smile and know i am your sister you never met. I am here and if we ran into each other we would eat lunch, and laff and cry and most of all be women who have lived life and decided we are on the same side!

  28. There are 6 conservatives lurking. I am coaxing them.

  29. Fuzzy bear. i think one of the reasons conservatisim and progressivism clash is that we both wanna get to a good place for everyone… however we disagree about how to get there.

    I think the reason why is that we see human nature differently. Progressive thought is that people want to be good. Conservative thought is that people are bad, and fighting hard to be good.
    I am not christian. Im born jewish, very lapsed.

    Fuzzy, I would like to engage you because you remind me of my best friend who i love dearly and who is an avowed communist, strangely we share some ideals. we are an odd couple as ever there was one, but we talk politics alot. Somehow we are still friends, cuz he knows im not evil, and i know hes not dumb, we just see thing totally differently.

    This is due to how life and other factors shape you IMHO

    1) you talk about having an govt umpire to instill fairness. Conservative people see the world as being inherently unfair. what we believe in is equality under the law.

    Thats the same law equally enforced for everyone. Simple rules dont need a lot of umpiring by a pro. I think we can all agree its bad to hurt each other, bad to step on each others individuality and dignity, and bad to steal.

    But as far as Fairness, Humans are logically limited by our own drive, will to succeed, and level of talent. Circumstances can be overcome.
    I don’t think its fair for others to drag me down tho, to lift someone else up whose not willing to work as hard….just for fairnesses sake.

    (I come from a life of abuse and horror starting from babyhood. My mom was poor and single i was raised by my gramma then foster parents. I have fought every inch, and was given nothing, so please dont think ive been “lucky”)

    2) this is related to Life isnt fair
    people can suck. They are greedy. They do seek unfair advantage, and often power over other people.
    not the best ones. BUt so many do
    and on both political sides
    i would be right with you in wanting a fair umpire to watch out for us, EXCEPT…. who we gonna get to be that super-fair umpire?
    And people have their own agendas and we cant test them for non suckiness ahead of time. Like O who seemed ok to so many, theres lots of people who would seek positions of arbitration simply to have power over people and make decisions over their lives. People who might not be fair. People with their own agendas to impose on individuals.
    Im scared of that.

    I dont think we are gonna whup the greed and self serving tendencies outta people any time soon so we gotta go with simple easy to enforce laws about NOT STEALING. NOT VIOLATING THE DIGNITY OF OTHERS. AND NOT HURTING PEOPLE.
    we can work at laws to prevent exploitation under NOT HURTING and HUMAN DIGNITY.

    Keeping it simple is key. Keeping equal enforcement under the law absolute will go a long way. I am so big on respect for an individual as an individual. Rights should not be for groups. They should be for each individual as an individual, and they should be ABSOLUTE.

    Cuz lets face it, there’s gonna be oddballs that just dont fit anywhere and they got rights too. I want them protected.

    You start hurtin people, your rights end where the other person starts gettin hurt.

    3) I agree Govt shoul take care of defense, Education (Tho im big on science, math, reading, and trade school– let the rest be) and I look askance at safety nets and healthcare because people suck and abuse the system and im not sure how to prevent abuse of those two ideals, tho I agree absolutely that something needs to be in place for those who really need it.

    There should be no hungry children. No starving seniors, and emergency health care for those who need it as well.

    SO see?
    we arent so far apart.
    This is why my best friend can be a communist and we take turns buying each other lunch every day. And making dinner.
    MY friends have included many different kinds of people including both male and female prostitutes, people living alternative lifestyles and several covens of witches and a shaman or two. IM heavily tattooed, was full of large gauge piercings, mys sister lived in SF off Post and Polk, working the streets. I dont want people forced into other’s cookie cutter morality. BUT i wish the cops had enforced more laws already on the books to get her away from an abusive pimp, a drugged out life, and put her in a place to get her to clean up. As it was she suffered horrors living on the streets for 11 months. and in a crack house for years.

    CAn we agree “Do not do to others, that which would be hateful to you,” is a great rule?

    you know its not just christian. its a very old one, going back to Hammurabi.

    I like you i think i could really like this forum.
    After reading this, could you guys like me?


  30. Janis, feminism to me is about accepting other women as the glorous people, beautiful, lovely, smart, women without kids,mothers with ten kids,, or friend nurturing beings we are, we can be studious, we can be mothers, we can be anything…They seem to Think that can define who we can be.

    • They’re also hypocrites. I remember Susan Brownmiller’s book “Against Our Will,” where she said (and she’s right) that whether a man rapes or not, he benefits frmo its existence because it keeps all women everywhere in line.

      I still cannot BELIEVE that I saw women who called themselves feminists finagle that so that THEY benefited from it in just the same way: keep rape around as a threat against other women who threaten the status of their may-un. They figured out a way to make sexism benefit THEM — to keep those OTHER uppity women in line.

      They’d have you believe that it’s all due to the patriarchy that women rip other women to shreds, kiss male ass all the time, and work the reins of sexism. And I sat there with my jaw in my lap and watched a bunch of women I had so much respect for, women I’d practically genuflect in front of if I ever saw them in person, acting like the worst stereotype of the backstabbing junior high prom queen tropy-wife wannabe bitch from hell.

      That was always what feminism was to me: putting other women first. If you see a guy roofie another woman’s drink, you step in and warn her. If you hear a man threaten violence toward a woman, you defend her because rape keeps ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE DOWN. If you have a chance to help out a woman, you do it — you put women first. And I saw them spit on all of it. I saw them rip their more-woman-loving-than-thou mask off, and the face under it was the ugly, vicious, fang-bearing face of the patriarchy that’s torn so many millions of women to shreds.

      I can understand now why the women’s movement fails time and time again, why we’ve been garbage for a million years and we’ll be garbage for a million more. Because the very women who set themselves up as the solution don’t really believe in it themselves. No one really believes in women, least of all women. And as a non-traditional woman who will never fit in, I am 100% on my own in this world. I can either show my tits on “Girls Gone Wild” or show my tits for Obama. There. There’s your choice, girls. Get your kit off.

      • janis…your posts on this thread are cutting edge. I would like to talk to you more. I am working on a book on the failure of the feminist movement. I don’t know how to reach you 😦

  31. Woooohooooooo, you go girl!

    Thanks for writing that. Did the surgery go well?


  32. I’m so glad you’re back!

  33. They seem to (Think) that they can define who we can be.

  34. tried to repair my sentence above, last sentence meant no-one should define a woman as a woman, but herself.

    • willow, I replied similar to Janis above. We have to start supporting each other. Not always agreeing but SUPPORTING.

      • Yep. I don’t have to like a woman to vote for her. I’m not picking a Best Friend Forever, I’m just voting.

    • We are very good at overlooking typos here.

  35. I find it interesting that you say the only thing about you that is liberal is that you are pro-choice. I am on the other end, as a liberal the only thing that was conservative about me is that I am anti-abortion. I will never be pro-choice, not when over 10 million of my Black babies have been killed by abortion. Not when Black teenage girls are so killed by greedy abortionists! Not when it devastates women, leaving them alone and abandoned. Abandoning women and children is not a choice I would ever stand behind.

    I think if more women found out the truth about abortion. If they had to listen to the stories, they would not be pro-choice. Abortion is the world’s greatest lie and we have to protect our sisters from the industry that wishes to destroy them but that is just my two cents.

    • Being an Obstetrician/Gynecologist, I can tell you that unwanted pregnancies also devastate women, leaving them alone and abandoned.

    • I feel that it is a personal choice for a woman. While I do believe that life begins at conception, I believe that a woman has a right to choose.

    • I likely disagree with you on the legality issue, BUT I also think that just as women shouldn’t be forced to carry a child if they don’t choose to, no woman should feel she has no choice but to abort, or be exploited or cornered into it.

      I think that one area where women on both the left and the right of this issue can find common ground is getting some real supports in place for women who might really want to keep that child, if it were possible. I’m not talking about the type of “crisis pregnancy centers” that only focus on guilting a woman out of terminating. I’m talking about better access to daycare, to work, to housing, to flexible work schedules, a child support system that WORKS (yeah, the men need to pony up, and she shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to make that happen). Our laws and our society do not do a lot to make it POSSIBLE for a woman to have and raise that child, especially on her own.

      I am a nurse, and I know there are women who will terminate regardless, and that’s their choice. I don’t want to make it criminal. I’m not in their shoes. But I also know lots of women who really wish they had had the ability to make a different choice. Who think, “If only….If I could have…. I might have been able to…” Those women deserve some options.

      • Those women deserve every option! Since we’ve become a more mobile society, a lot of the day to day help that people used to receive from extended families is gone. That needs to be replaced, as well as, the day care, flex schedules for jobs, and support from the dads.

        I believe in a woman’s right to control her own body and, as a man, don’t feel entitiled to any vote on it. But I would also really like to see abortions become much more rare.

      • I absolutely agree WMCB. I find that there is so much focus on abortion, and not enough on options. Remember, “compassionate conservativism ends with birth?” It’s easy to judge, but not as easy to actually do something to help single mothers.

  36. i agree willow. you know moms with ten kids need childless friends like me to be the fun auntie who comes over to give her a break for the afteroon, so she can have some time to herself!

    Everyone has their place.
    The executive woman needs that cleaning lady who makes sure her house isnt a wreak, and that cleaning lady needs several professionals with no time to clean, to keep her family fed. This world is a marvelous ecology of women, and even men.

    My foster parent taught me no job was too humble, no chore too low, because the plumber keep us in a less stinky word, the butcher makes sure we are fed, the strawberry picker has a place with the farmer in a place of honour, and the girl in the supermarket, at the checkout stand, putting dinner on the table in a chain of small jobs accomplished daily.
    He made me clean stalls, mend tack, do all the things from bottom to top so that now i can run a horse farm myself.
    And when i feel bad, i clean tack, or rake a stall, just to feel human, and alive. And because if i dont my life is less beautiful, and less civilized, than if i thought i was too good to get my hands dirty.
    Intellectualism is fine.
    But in the end it wont get the dishes done.
    Both are of equal honour as the woman changing the baby’s diapers. who knows that baby if cared for well, may grow up to save the world?

    LOL now you have seen me up on my foster parent’s soapbox. Hope you enjoyed it!

    • I love being the fun Auntie!

      • so do i. I Make oatmeal cookie dough just to eat. Let everyone play in the dirt and have two rules–stay away from the stallions, and DONT GET HURT!

        other than that knock yourself out kids.

        They never wanna go home and often we gotta hose em off before we bring the kids in for baths.

  37. afrocity, btw i loved your opening, i watched with suffering and also fear both Hullary and Palin toss’d aside like garbage, if it can happen to them, what can happen to us., and I’m glad you are opening more doors to pull us together.

  38. wow Janis, YOu are on fire. I agree with so much you said. I am a rape victim, and heard someone say of some people that it matters what kind of person is raped, because there are some people “thats just gonna happen to.”

    • And a woman who thinks like that is NOT going to be strongly motivated to get rid of sexism or vanquish rape — because she thinks it might come in useful someday if she has to use it against another woman.

      I mean, I know that the patriarchy has trained women to act like that toward one another. But feminists USED TO condemn that sort of thing — when you hear about nightmare stories like that 17 year old girl who egged her boyfriend on to kill the 14 year old “competition.” How is the complicity and silence of feminism while Sarah Palin was sexually humiliated time and again any different from that?!

    • WTF!!?? If I ever hear someone say that, they’ll get a piece of my mind.

  39. Karugush,
    I can’t express how much this means to me to see from everyone here. this has election has really reeked havic (sp)on my soul, i have daugthers,i feared for their futures! i felt as if we were on the cusp of being totally disregarded as women.

    • I’m convinced that if we plot the wage gap for the next thirty years, we’ll see a knee on the curve at 2008. 77 cents on the dollar was a high water mark, mark my words.

      • 2008 was the year we all decided to give a “knee on the curve” to the patriarchal leanings of our culture. 🙂

    • willow im scared too. I think some ideals are better than others.
      cultural relativism thats says well its all equal is WRONG!
      people who think its ok to treat have their population as worth less than a good riding horse are NOT equal.

      We need to fight to protect a world in which we move forward in bringing full human status to all our daughters and sisters on this planet.

      Its never right to rape.
      women and children SHOULD NEVER be bought and sold.
      all people are valuable because they are people, but just cuz you have a penis doesnt make you especially valuable.
      People need to be judged on who they are as people, and what they do in their daily lives.

      Personally those little Cenral Asian women who do all the world while the husband sits and smokes and makes war with his friends, are worth more. Without those gentle beasts of burden called “wives” that world would collapse.

      Another fantasy: take ll those women somewhere safe to get some school, and some skills, and a little taste of freedom, and ease. How lucky our daughters are! even our poorest.
      in our world its not assumed you will be sold into marriage, or that your brothers and dad will kill you if you step out of line.

      Rape and public gang rape is a punishment used in Pakistan and other close areas in that region. The woman doesnt even have to be at fault for the sentence to be visited upon her. After which its expected her family will kill her.

      WE need to speak out. NOt say lets talk to the Modersate taliban, who will whip women and rape them, instead of stoning and beheading them.

  40. AFROCITY!!! This post MADE MY DAY!!! Oh Goddess, have I missed you like crazy!!!
    *gives millions of kisses*

    • {little isis}

      • I’m glad you took that time for yourself AfroCity. I had to take it after Hillary lost the Primary. I was gone for most of the summer, dealing with other (painful) things. It was a confusing time.
        It still is confusing, but Isn’t it funny how life does that to you?

    • How’s school, littleisis?

  41. WMBC, we do.

  42. And Scrubs!!! I haven’t seen you here in forever!!!

  43. Sadly, some people object to us reaching out to people on the right.

    • (Their view is short-sighted and stupid because it boxes us in)

    • Aw, I don’t object to it…
      I mean, I still lean pretty far to the left, on almost all issues, but part of not giving into extremism and violence and intolerance is learning that everyone has a place in this world… and in my heart.
      That is what the Election of ’08 taught me.

      • I wasn’t talking about you.

        You’re not stupid

        • Lol… yeah, I know you weren’t talking about me. I was just saying.
          And thanks for saying I’m not stupid. :p

        • AHEM……calling people stupid because you disagree with them is stupid.

          (Please do not send body organs)

          There are reasons some are cautious. Just as the conservative women who lurked didn’t jump in and engage there may be reasons some are hesitant to embrace a conversation right out the gate with folks on the right from the left side.

          Let folks find there comfort zone.

    • That’s because they are afraid. I have family members and friends who disagree with me WIDELY politically. We talk. We laugh. It may surprise some, but we find tons of things that we can agree on, and some stuff we realize we will never agree on – and ya know what? That’s okay. We don’t shut each other out or down because of it. We all have a voice. Shutting down the conversation among people of good intent (I’m not talking about selfish wackos on either side) is never helpful, in my experience.

      • reminds me of my socialist friend who was at my house for dinner. Just to be provocative he says out of the blue to my marine boyfriend “IM a communist you know.”

        And the boy (who is to the right of Atilla the Hun) says “Yes and i carry a gun and go to hellholes for you to be able to say that, and live in perfect safety.” put a beer in his hand. “Lets have a beer, Ellis.”

        to me this is what america should be about

      • That’s one of the things I admire most about Hillary. Her debating skills and knowledge are so sharp, and she is so confident, that she is not afraid to take on O’Reilly or Mellon-Scaife, and to do it with decency. That is how she has won over others–she is not defensive, just very clear about her own p.o.v. and willing to listen and debate the specifics.

    • I’m not into “reaching out” to anyone on any side. I’ll state what I think, and if someone else feels a kinship with it, I’m not about to knee them in the groin just because they eat meat, are vegetarian, have a kid, have no kids, or otherwise have some form of cooties that makes me queaasy that someone so different from me can nonetheless agree with me on something.

      I mean, that’s what it all amounts to, isn’t it? “How DARE you think like me and not be me!”

      • I don’t think that’s it at all. I think it is somewhat natural to be afraid of something you feel unfamiliar with. As time goes on I think people may realize that they have areas where they can find commonalities and areas where they vehemently disagree(let’s hope when the two sides vehemently disagree that there is an understanding to do so with civility and with respect to differing views not necessarily meaning the end of the world. Heck, listening to a different viewpoint can be very enlightening).

  44. Gay Conservative. org has a post on r@cism


  45. Yeah, Afrocity! NICE post. You are changing my mind about Republicans.

  46. Hi Afrocity! Beautiful post, absolutely outstanding.

    I was a Dem my whole life, but no more. I wouldn’t quite say I’m a Republican, but I certainly voted that way in the last election for the first time ever.

    As to conservatives, I do now understand many things from their point of view. I didn’t used to, but this last election changed all that and since then I have set out to find out what makes conservatives tick, LOL. Especially conservative women. I’ve found that many of us are on the same page when it comes to several issues.

  47. Afro, a Gay Conservative is a great site.

  48. I love this post. I love Afrocity. If only there were more posts like this going around at present. 🙂

    Just delurking in to say hi. Go Conflucians!!!

  49. Riverdaughter.
    Most women care about other women, and their struglges, as we do about many others struggles although we haven’t seen that expressed by msm. And that’s where majority of middle America got their news, Blogging is helping us find eachother on our Own terms. not theirs.

    • Yes indeed. This is part of the reasoning behind other groups like The New Agenda as well.

      • I think the MSM is a tool of interests that have an agendas to keep us fighting each other and weak, therefore easier to keep in line.

        • Yup. Throw some red meat to the conservatives to keep them all nicely lined up to swallow whatever else the Republican powers-that-be want to shove down the country’s throat. Throw some juicy bits to the liberals to keep them compliant with the Democratic elite’s entire agenda as well. Then sic us on each other while they all rob us blind and control our lives.

          God forbid we rebel and start TALKING to each other instead of listening to them. God forbid we remember that we are all human beings, and neighbors, and coworkers, and mostly want to do the right thing. We might get some power then, which means less for them. They don’t want that.

          • god forbid indeed. keeop us fighting over details. They maintain power over us. We forget we are all essentially family. I think the worst part is where the two sides of people actually started thinking the others were evil. Honest to goodness evil! I think in many ways the puma movement helped with that. WE are neighbors and sisters and friends. WE may not always agree, but we are all people who want the best for our world and our kids.

          • Exactly–that is a great theme for PUMAs. We are all human (but cats…)

  50. Yikes! If I hang up my Habit, I’ll be naked! The Pope won’t like that at all….

    but I get your drift 😉

    I’ll don my PUMA underwear and wear PUMA sneakers under my Habit, if that’s ok. 🙂

  51. Beautiful post, afrocity. Strong, self-revealing, witty and an excellent addition to the PUMA discussion. Thank you.

  52. Okay, I am not used to the Reply “feature” . If I miss someone please forgive. I am more linear than hierarchical.

  53. Afrocity, it’s a pleasure to “see” you and some of your buddies here tonight. We are the “un-party” here: liberals with liberal views, liberals with some conservative views, and conservatives with some liberal views. What we all seem to share is the feeling that neither party represents us anymore, and we need to find a new way to restore our government, our Constitution, and our democracy. All civilized discussion is helpful. Even if we disagree, maybe we can have a better understanding of why we’re coming from different places.

    • There are a lot of IL women who voted against Obama

      • Heck, I didn’t even vote for him when he was running for Senate. Probably the first time in 10 years that I didn’t vote for the Democratic nominee for Senate when he ran.

  54. When it comes to Women’s rights and equality, I don’t think Party Affiliation matters all that much.

  55. Why is dkos stalking you (if you don’t mind my asking)? That’s some scary a$$ stuff

    • I said on a thread on another blog that Obama was an idiot.
      Next thing I know they copied my comments and put them on Daily Kos.

      LGF Outrage Over Special Olympics With Super Meta Irony
      by bernardpliers
      Fri Mar 20, 2009 at 06:12:55 PM PDT

      LGF reacted with predictable rage at President Obama’s remark about the Special Olympics.

      We can only hope that this display of “political correctness” doesn’t drive Obama over the edge, because Glenn Beck says this PC is exactly what drives people to go shooting sprees.

      But PC does not come easy to the lizard kids. To wit:

      5 NYCHardhat 3/19/09 6:19:35
      What a fucking moron.

      269 Afrocity
      I am watching Hannity, who just played a clip of Obama’s latest town hall.
      He is comparing AIG to suicide bombers. He looks like an idiot w/o the teleprompter and is pantomiming strapping a bomb to himself.

      He looks like what?

      • Yeah, I thought it would be something like that. If they’re going to hang out at other blogs and troll etc (never got the point) they could at least remove the names, that’s inviting people to stalk and harass. Of course, they don’t even make sense–what, ‘idiot’ and ‘moron’ are unPC? Don’t tell me, it’s a slur against the residents of whole foods nation who define themselves by their lack of cognitive ability?

    • What are you referring to Seriously?

  56. Brava, Afrocity! Thank you so much for your post and saying what you do. I’m with you!

  57. Janis i did that in my state last election, but i could never vote Pelosi, so i’m stuck on what to do if i HAD that as a choice.

    • Grit your teeth and do it — then go get a margarita and wash the taste out of your mouth.

      Seriously — this is like running a numbers game in Vegas. If the math says you fold on a full house, then FOLD. Just do it. No angst required.

      • I agree … seeing all the female conservative Senators come together and vote for the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act convinced me that, conservative or liberal, women look out for other women.

        • And seeing those Republican women step forward and say to the media, “We saw what you did to Hillary Clinton, and WE WILL NOT SIT BY WHILE YOU DO IT TO SARAH PALIN.” They still did it … but why did I have to see women who I’d been told were evil patriarchal handmaidens come forward and do what I thought MY PARTY would do?!?!?!?!

        • Unless you’re Claire McCaskill, Nancy Pelosi, Kathleen Sebelius et. al.

          • Or the worst sell out (for me): Oprah, who built her career on women helping other women.

          • Again, the best solution is to vote them in in large enough numbers so they don’t feel the need to play that “giggledy-giggledy sexism is just peachy!” game. When women don’t feel like there’s only one Queen Bee in the world and goddamn it, it’s gonna be them, they get better. There’s a sort of phase change that happens when a critical mass of some sort is reached. Until that mass is reached, tokenism results in “bow before the queen bitch” behavior.

        • Women look out for other women when they are present in large enough numbers. When it’s one or two tokens, that’s when they act like effing barracudas, slicing the throats of the competition. When there are more of them in good numbers and not ones and twos, they are much better.

  58. in response to karagush above:

    I feel like Miss California now…I dont wish to offend anyone but…..

    In a nation of Laws “The Law”is the rule book for the game of life and the umpire umpire is the courts. These courts instituted by men have the final say…that is why amending the constitution is so hard.

    There is no place ina secular multi-religious society to invoke the creator how ever he or she is concieved.

    The market has done a lousy job at providing healthcare for all americans.dot period the end. It has generally raised the cost for the covered to supposedly offset the costs of the uninsured…..it is a hidden corporate tax that cannot be audited.

    A public healthcare system would or at lease could be designed to open for public audit. Try that with Eatna or the other healthcare Insc megacorps and HMO’s it would be meant with screams but that info is proprietary…

    Sorry even my republican brother says a single payer system would be better than what we have now, which is a letter of marque to steal y the health insurance agencies-the hidden tax of the uninsured would be eliminated.

    Next I will be hearing of Welfare mothers driving Lincolns and Mercedes Benzs or selling their childrens food stamps for crack…

    and as a groups Women and LGBT people/citizens and taxpayers and stakeholders in this nation need the same rights as everyone else whether you agree with them or not.

    I do not have a lifestyle- I HAVE A LIFE! DOT PERIOD THE END!….that offeds me

    Living in the hamptons and wintering in St Barts is a lifestyle….

    Getting up going to work paying taxes watching over your family however you concieve it, including sharing in the legal obligations of the tha civil marriage brings is a life.

    • (((((hugs)))) fuzzy. Well said.

    • An old friend of mine is a Republican, and her husband is President of United Health Care. She said, “Hillary is right–if everyone is not included, it will never work.”

      • p.s. & my father has been a doctor for 55+ years, and he says single payer is the best option in terms of service, for health care providers, and bureaucratically.

    • Thanks for engaging with me fuzzy. I think you are right about so much.

      re life vs lifestyle i agree with you, but politically thats the usual language, and i didnt wish to offend. I try to be REEEEELy careful, but sometimes fall short. As a horsewoman, many of the people i love are gay. Lots of LGBT people are in animal keeping professions. As a matter of fact, i was raised by a marine and a lesbian, neither were my parents, both were the most important people in my life.
      the marine died of COPD about 19 years ago, as of May4.
      the lesbian who was pretty much my mom died of Lou Gherigs disease, about 7 years ago. Both losses left me bereft.
      (Actually i was the person with a lifestyle that i was referring to obliquely, and my sister, not you.)

      I think you make many assumptions about me. But i have seen the worst the world offers and believe me i have seen fraud. Im sorry to say it was up close and personal. In my step mother. She used my half sister in it, and that half sister was faced when she turned 21, with the option of going to jail or paying back the money from the scheme her mom got her into.

      it had to do with collecting social security for a handicap she didnt have. That poor young woman ended up in a world of shit. fortunately she came up with the money.

      I agree with you that so many people need healthcare.
      (But i think it should be GOOD healthcare)
      I agree people need a safety net.
      I also mentioned i was leery of a system of “fairness” being abused or judges and arbitrators (read beaureaucrats) making decisions for us, based on what they think is cool not what we need… eg Lou Dobbs making decisions for you (EEEEEEWWWW) or someone who hates risk, and horses making decisions about what is right for me (UGH)

      when i say that i am thinking of the needs of women and the LGBT community. i think a govt can be really insensitive to womens needs without big help i dont see that changing soon. We need alternative structures outside of govt for helping women, children and those discriminated against.

      in medicine if we move to single payer we are moving towards bureaucratic control of who gets what treatments. That will slow research. Who will get downgraded in priority? In canada i had a friend wait ten days to have a collapsed lung treated. Then another 6 months to have the problem diagnosed as cancer. In the US that would have been treated the same night and her cancer diagnosed in a week.

      our system isnt perfect. in some ways its not good. I have chronic illness. I have epilepsy, an immunodeficiancy disorder, heart problems, and i have birth defects in both my kidneys. Single payer health care based on the British model scares me because they would deny me treatment if i hit a hospital, because on paper i am “terminal.” This scares me for people with HIV because we chronically ill are expensive to treat. I know from hard experience. I have even payed out of pocket. We have great lives, but dammit its expensive and its hard to get large numbers of people “who are only getting sicker” treatment when you can give them pallitive care, let them die (which is what happens in many places) and pay to take care of young people who are not too sick and do uncomplicated surgical procedures, so they can get back to work.
      My woman friend in canada is having horrible time getting treated for anything wrong with her. They would rather tell her she is fat and give her a diet plan than treat her excessively bleeding uterus. Simple procedure here in the states. Just they dont have enough docs and rooms to do lots of that stuff so whatever gets treated has to be a horrid problem or you are put on the back burner.

      if you wonder what socialized medicine would look like please talk to a service member who deals alot with the VA. Makes CIGNA look responsive and frankly i have fantasies about going into CIGNA and making them all live my life for a month and see how they like it. Thats why i am scared of that. Im not saying what we have is peachy. what i am saying is that there are no easy solutions and maybe the govt aint it either.

      i agree with you so much about what is important.
      but people suck.
      women with health issues will be told they can live with it. they will suffer, because women always do. The LGBT community will suffer because there arent enough in numbers to get a truly urgent response, if we are dealing with a pure democracy.

      But if we deal with laws that say that your right as an individual is sacred to be that individual, i think we agree.
      I want your right to a dignified life to be protected and respected.
      i want elders to be protected.
      I want children to be protected.
      I want women to be heard, and respected.
      I want the handicapped to be protected and respected, and to live in dignity and recieve the best health care.

      But my faith in govt to get us there is scant. we will have to protect each other.
      because friends and neighbors help each other especially through grassroots movements.

      But i have seen govt oppress and abuse. I have seen the oppressed and abused learn to game the system. And i have seen the system utterly fail me and people i love time and again.

      I think your ideas are good ones. I just think they are vulnarable to entropy and bad people becoming involved because centralized solutions lend power over too many people with too little responsiveness to the individuals actual needs.

      You are an individual worthy of the respect and dignity of an individual, just for your uniqueness and also because i have heard you are awesome. But even if you werent, each being in unique and deserves dignity and concern.

      i want that for all of us, not some one size fits nobody kind of answer cooked up by a committee of reps that doesnt really represent anybodys intrests but their own….
      (can you tell i have become soured on govt in general?)

      I am so disillusioned.

      • I’ll take my chances with single payer over insurance company overcharging any day.

      • in medicine if we move to single payer we are moving towards bureaucratic control of who gets what treatments.

        Are you trying to suggest that we don’t have that already with our private insurance dominated system?

        • it will be worse. and for me its a life or death issue. Since i have a rare problem, few Drs even know what they are looking at when they see me and i have to be treated by specialists all the time. And not just any specialists. There are about seven Drs in the WORLD who know whats going on with muy health issue, and so i worry that if things go to a single payer system similar to canada or GB i will lose access to the kind of health care i need to lead a happy active life.

          Insurance companies have sent me in circles. Tried to deny me care. Have indeed forced me to pay out of pocket. But under the proposed ideas for single payer out of “fairness” I could not choose my DR or pay out of pocket to continue to see my familiar specialist who has been treating my condition for the past 20 years.

          Under some versions there are even Jail sentences for the patienrts and Drs who defy the system. Im not fear-mongering. Its just true.

          I dont want that for any parent faced with a sick child, woman who wants agressive cancer treatment, or indeed any person. I follow the issue closely because i want to continue to be treated by the Drs of my choice, because i am not a simple case.

          But yes
          like i mentioned above. Dont get me started on CIGNA because my feelings about them range from frustrated to homicidal. There isnt enough space for my stories about their stupidity towards me and certain people dear to my heart.

          BUT for people like me who are chronically ill, and not simple, for those with terminal orphan diseases, Single payer will be very bad. And the agressive, expensive and expirimental treatments for our problems would not be as available.

          Limited resources would in the end, get people like us screwed. In england’s system, they just let like folks like me die. Its math, i cost more to support than i pay into the system. Limited resources can best be spent on others with less esoteric expensive and intractable problems, who can be actually healed. You dont pour unlimited amounts of money into terminal patients, its called triage. Im a black tag.

          • My sympathies, but do really you think you’ll fare better in a “for profit” health care system?

            Many of us would happily settle for having “any doctor” because our current plan is called “don’t get sick”

          • We have UHC in Italy-according to SHV it’s ranked second in the world.

            It is a matter of course that you can choose your own localdoctor/ and specialists. If that particular doctor/specialist is too full of patients then you choose another, or otherwise you can pay out of your own pocket to see whoever you like. (this can often be re-imborsed).

            The public system co-exists with the private system.

            It would be a bit much if you couldn’t choose your own doctor IMO.

          • Currently ther itallian plan is not what our new health care system will be modeled on. I am aware that the current plan for many is “dont get sick” and the consequences of a major illness or accident will be horrendous. But i am already sick. and yes, i am following the health care situations closely, because my life depends on it. As it is, If we get what they have planned now, I will have to move to Israel. They have a socialized health care system that works and i will have a couple Drs i can go to, that understand my condition and be interested in treating it.
            It is a bad position to be medically unique.
            Its hard to get insurance to treat you.
            But under the british system, which is what they are currently using as a model for the possible US single payer system in the future… the best plan is also “dont get sick.”

            I think what we need to do is come us with something that is uniquely our own and not go repeating other countries mistakes.
            but coming up with a new plan is harder than copying someone elses plan.
            Also we have to be concerned at who will craft this plan and make sure its completely to our benefit, and NOT someone elses.

            IM not so sure politicians always have our best interests at heart. My fear is that lobbies, and special intrests will stick their noses into the plans and mess them up, twist them to THEIR benefit, and damn whats good for US. I dont care what political stripe they come from, i think the thing that causes people to seek power makes them inherently unfit to wield it .

  59. oh, Fuzzy…

  60. Afrocity, wow great post!You nailed it girlfriend.I went through every thing you did except I was a die hard Dem..I switched to Indy and voted McCain/Palin.I am now PUMA to the core.

    We women and our supportive men need to stick together and advance the PUMA agenda.Respect should be given to all people regardless of political party,race, sexual orientation and gender.Misogyny should not ever be tolerated.Let’s all riot to make changes for the better.I am ready.

    Afrocity,it is so good to read your thoughtful posts. I sure hope there are more to come..Please keep posting.We need you.And a big welcome to Avid Editor.I hope you like this wonderful place and come back often.

  61. really you may be uneducated karagush but “…people living alternative lifestyles…” is a fundamentalist christian code word/phrase for “dieviant lifestyle”.. I really would preffer to be called “F@GGOTT” because I would at least know where I stood.

    Alternative lifestyle assumes a superior lifestyle exsists and is preferred and desired by all it reall offends me that I have to listen to that crap here at the confluence.

    If you were uninformed about that I will take your ignorance under advisement. Could someone put atlernative lifestyle in the spam filter next to R@cist…

    Santa Vaca I am beginning to sound like rachel Maddow some one get me a vomit bucket

    • I am so sorry i came off that way to you. I had no idea it seemed so very rude to you.
      Actually its a polite way of saying i formerly lived in a BDSM relationship.I really didnt mean to offend. I just didnt wish to out myself so soon.
      My life was very controlled
      My world was kept very small.
      I now live in a small rural community, trying to recover fom my experiences.
      I didnt mean to make you think i was a fundy (Im not.)
      I just come from a time when alternative just meant “Not a breeder” which i think is a rude term too.
      I am aware that the BDSM culture has changed much in the 20 odd years ive had contact with it. And for the last 15 years ive been pretty much kept like veal, or an exotic pet, so i dont really have whats current vernacular in my vocabulary. I never go to the city and i have zero contact with old friends because I am somewhat in hiding.

      but this is why i am so passionately for the rights of the individual as unique and precious. I was depersonalized and objectified for a very long time. I was looked down upon for consenting to what people consider bizzarre abuse. Now you might say i am a relic of the early nineties.
      Back then we in the BDSM world self- referred to each other as “Perverts” and thought it was funny. If you find some very old issues of Skin 2 or Marquis you will see this is true. I do know this is considered quite rude now.

      Yes i am ignorant. if you are at all familiar with the BDSM lifestyle, you will know that the LGBT rights issues are very much connected to our issues too.

      And you will also know How very small and controlled my world was from the early nineties to when i finally made my life my own. I barely survived, and now i am just experiencing the world.

      This is also why i am so passionately for getting oppressed women of the world out of Pakistan and Afghanistan if they need to escape, because i have lived a life not a whole lot different.

  62. ouch

  63. Fuzzy, speaking of Perez Hilton, today he said he was thinking of the “c-word” when listening to Miss CA. Doesn’t this just take you back to last year? I really, really hate that the left has made that vile profanity acceptable. Who the hell is Perez to lecture anyone on hate? One of my biggest turnoffs toward the Obama supporters has been the double dollop of blatant hypocrisy topping the grande latte of hate.

    • yes but hey he may have thought her being Ms California she would be educated and progressive. I wish they had asked Miss Carolina the same question! to be fair….

      The C word is never Ok for conversation even between to women lik the “F” word I used above or the “N” word…thay are all ugly and should only be used to educate on their non use.

    • parentofed!

      I was just wondering about you today. It’s great to see you. You haven’t been around much lately.

  64. sorry rant is now over…

    • (((fuzzy)))) Sometimes people don’t realize how hurtful certain buzzwords can be. Because for you it’s not a debate, it’s your life.

      • yes but they should be careful when in uncharted waters…we have a big theme of liberal progressive on this blogg.

        while we have some common ground with all americans left or right our belief in Party Reform Ellection and Primary Reform as wella s womens and LGBT rights seperation of church and state are not up for debate.

        • fuzzy, I understand, but for people who are not even consciously aware of certain buzz words, it’s probably more effective to explain than attack. We all programmed to a certain degree, and education is the first tack. If the discrimination continues, then the fire is perfectly valid IMHO.

  65. Hi nice blog 🙂 I can see a lot of effort has been put in.

  66. …Well Rome was not built in one day 🙂

  67. btw, I am a big supporter of gay rights & gay marriage. I don’t understand why a political question like this was asked at a beauty pageant, and I’m repelled by the digusting misogyny of that twit Hilton.

    • well I think he really thought she would go to bat for Same Sex Marriage I think he was played. He is a media whore as well as a twit…he gets played allot.

      Some one should put him on a diet….unlike me he is not cuddley big….and that hair is a disaster

      • Wasn’t it Pat Johnson who used to say that politics last year had restricted her to the websites Confluence and PerezHilton? I wonder what she thinks of this?

        • Is Pat out of town? I haven’t seen her commenting here lately. Please say she hasn’t left. I’ll be heartbroken.

  68. Afrocity, I LOVE your post! You’ve gotten me all fired up again!

    Someone answer me this … how do we cope with Obama Derangement Syndrome? Seems like most Americans are in love with the IDEA of Obama. A close friend confided in me that she loved how humble he is. I was absolutely staggered. Humble? What? How? I’m thinking, Greek columns, two biographies, “a light will shine down … ”

    I don’t even know how to start to get through to someone with that mindset.

    • You need a soundproof room (preferably a dank basement) lots of duct tape and a large dead fish

      • Sometimes I think I’d be better off retreating to my own basement. Just e-mail me a heads up when that Kool-Aid is out of the water supply.

      • myiq-


        he apperas just like bettlejuice

      • I would go with a large basement, a hammer, and several large glass bottles wrapped in bath towels. Strike the wrapped bottles smartly with the hammer and imagine you are breaking through the cult brainwashing that has captured your dear friends and destroyed their ability to think clearly. Your serenity will soon be restored–until you deal with the next Obot. Then repeat the process.

    • As someone said in an RCP thread about how the MSM cover Obama as if he’s an A-list celebrity…. the scary thing about this is that there are millions of Americans who don’t follow or really care about politics but who will nevertheless vote for the highest office in the land just as they would for amateur night at the talent contest. These voters are more than happy with a steady diet of the latest (dog-garden-wardrobe-party-high living) Obama lifestyle updates. They could care less about meaty issues (FISA or torture or stimulus bills, anyone?) and will remain/become Obama fans (who may well vote) as long as they are kept happy gobbling down nutrition-free O-tidbits. No cognitive dissonance involved here whatsoever. And of course the Obamas are more than willing to feed the fandom syndrome. Hell, they were the originators.

      Don’t know why I never thought of Obama’s favorability numbers in this light before. Maybe because it’s altogether too scary to do so.

    • He radiates arrogance–it was the first thing I noticed about him.

  69. Sort of on-topic here, but I did something this week that made me feel good.

    We are getting ready to move in 2 weeks (bought a house), and I was interviewing and getting quotes from various movers. I ended up choosing a particular company that was a wee bit more expensive than 2 others, but has great reviews and BBB awards, etc. But that’s not the real reason I chose them.

    In talking with them, they wanted to know for their own survey purposes what the primary reason was that I chose them. Was it pricing? Word of mouth? Their web page? The awards?

    I told them no, that the overriding reason I chose them was because in doing my research, I found out that they are an entirely WOMAN-OWNED company. They seemed a little pleasantly surprised at that, then grinned really big and said “Thanks”. It made me feel great.

  70. I admired many of the women from the conservative side of the aisle. I may not agree with them on everything but I look forward to working with them in areas where we can agree.

    • I especially admired Margaret Chase Smith after hearing Afrocity’s stories about her.

      • I was really bummed when Gregg dropped himself for consideration from commerce due to a disagreement on the stimulus bill. His replacement sounded like she would have been a real asset.

        I loved how the GOP women rallied around Palin and asked why anyone was questioning how she would juggle a family and career and they did not do the same for her male counterparts.

        • YES! Why did I have to watch women I’d been told nonstop were evil patriarchal tools do that, when the women on “my” side — well, what was supposed to be my side — were calling Gerry Ferraro a fucking whore!?!?!??!?!

          • I was disgusted by the behavior of many of the women in my party. Disagreeing with Sarah Palin on issues is one thing, standing by or aiding and abetting in creating the caricature of her as a “dumb bimbo” whose claim to fame was her looks is another.

            Frankly, I thought Hillary and Sarah would have got on despite their differences. I know I embrace any woman who is willing to provide a safety net for women who find themselves pregnant in college so they can complete their degree if they choose to continue a pregnancy. I also appreciate that the Domestic Violence Act and the Act that helped enforced child support were both passed because conservative women and their liberal counterparts worked together.

  71. Hi Afrocity! Just woke up from my nap to this wonderful post!!! I’m so glad you’re a front-pager and this is such a great start!

  72. my dakinikat…hey how is the big easy?

  73. Thank you for the hospitality, i need to get kids to bed. I appreciated your sharing of thoughts and your kindness,, thank you.

  74. For anyone interested in an intriguing study on the societal effects of eliminating dominant males, where only females and non-dominant males remain to co-exist, based on the research of Robert Sapolsky, check out this video”


    and article:

    Social Cultures among Nonhuman Primates
    by Robert M. Sapolsky
    Current Anthropology Volume 47, Number 4, August 2006

    In the near future I plan to do a post on this topic. It was a very revealing and interesting outcome.

  75. Thank you for this article AfroCity. I am African American and although I have not become a Republican I have left the Democrat party and now I vote how I have always felt and vote Independent.
    This year while my neighbors celebrated the Obama victory with shooting off guns and yelling Obama’s name. I was to full of anger and sadness that this man won. I worked so hard to elect a black man in the past but I could not and would not vote for Obama.
    Funny neither John McCain, Hillary Clinton, nor the Democrats used racism. He should have done the same thing for Hillary and Sarah.
    I had such high hopes that I would be either voting for Hillary or a black man. I didn’t much care until the Primarys started and he began being racist.

    • It was hard for me. I hope mom forgives me but IMHO Obama is not what I had envisioned for first AA president. It is his personality that bugs me.

  76. Afrocity – a beautifully written post that reflects exactly how I and many others feel. I have visited your blog and find it equally good.

    I agree with Afrocity that PUMA should be inclusive. A place that echoes the sentiments of the UNC Chancellor’s words:

    “We expect protests about controversial subjects at (Carolina.) That’s part of our culture. But we also pride ourselves on being a place where all points of view can be expressed and heard. There’s a way to protest that respects free speech and allows people with opposing views to be heard. “

  77. How do I get a PUMA widget?

  78. It looks like they caught the Craigslist killer in Boston.


  79. What about core values LFI? my big concern is that we have core values like Hillary

    1) Universal Healthcare

    2) Opportunity Economy/Society vs Un-Free Market

    3) The ability for every American to live up the their god given potential

    4) sorry going there: choice not used a a weapon to cower us into subservence but as an actual principle where each of us is responsible for our own persons and we do not inflict our beliefs on anyone else’s body

    5) I dont see masses of republicans standing toe to toe with me on gay marriage or the ERA or LGBT rights…

    6)Social Safety Net going there again….in the republican world of trickle down economics the only safety net is for large corporations and their CEOs and CFOs….sorry I think it is ludicrus to expect GE EXXON/Mobil et all to take care of the weakest amoung us through corporate benevelance. It is a function.

    7) Conservatives on here have said they have so much in common and they say I support goverments importance in National Education then come the qualifiers its these qualifiers “theres the rub”
    to quote the bard.

    Soon we will be told that they support choice when all other options are exausted adoption single motherhood and only in medical necessity where it is 100% proved the “baby” would be born dead and the mother would loose her life….sorry dont see it

    • Fuzzy I am my own woman and I have core values like Afrocity. Not Sarah or Hillary. We are all unique but share a common thread.Tonight is about the awareness that we as women are still facing an uphill battle. That is what we have in common. We or I never said that I will give up my guns or Fix News ;-).
      As women during the election of 2008 both sides were defeated. DEM and GOP.

      As far as gay marriage my friends at the gay conservative may disagree. They are republicans. I am and we all don’t think alike.

    • Political issues can be complicated. Biden and Obama are Dems but they said they were against gay marriage. Harry Reid once voted to ban birth control for our troops. Tim Kaine, head of the DNC, is prolife. Palin may not personally believe in gay marriage, but she upheld gay partnership benefits by vetoing a bill in Alaska. In Ca, it was Republican appointed SC judges that upheld gay marriage (before the vote happened.) It was primarily Republican appointed judges who handed down Roe v Wade.

      We can all have core values, but we should be careful because most of our politicians appear to have no values at all, LOL. Working together with Pumas of different political leanings is not the same as giving up what we as individuals believe in.

    • {{Fuzzy}} I love your list…..

    • fuzzy, thank you. I hear you. You speak for me too.

    • Hey Fuzzy,

      I love your list. I guess it remains an unanswered question as to whether we can maintain our core values while keeping an open dialog with conservatives–I don’t worry that this site will lose or dilute its core values, so what really remains to be seen is whether conservatives can put up with us in spite of this. I think that this will be an interesting experiment at the very least.

  80. omg it’s Afrocity! how nice to see you!! and you brought cool friends 🙂

    very nice post, I hope we’ll be seeing more from you. I’ve always appreciated your pov.

  81. nice piece AfroCity!

    My guess is that this year was as hard for you as it was for all of us.
    I know most of us? We ahve never seen the likes of things like this. I read Black Agenda on the tough issues because they are Dems like me — but– I think I could be a dem or a repub? I swear.

    I just want a country that looks normal back — and — well?


    glad your piece is up! — here! PUMAcitystyle!

  82. Woo hoo–Afrocity is in the house! You have been holding out on us–I absolutely LOVED this post. Witty, fierce and righteous.

    I had several favorite lines:

    We are a circle of sisters who will not be treated like shit. A moral and intellectual force and we have all just been through hell.

    The nurse looked at me and smiled. I wondered if she would still smile at me if she knew I was conservative.

    For some time they had metamorphosed from dutiful donkeys to hypocritical assholes.

    All great A-city. Please post often–we need your unique voice and fighting spirit. I will never look at the Parties the same way again, and I am sick to death of the stereotyping and generalizations on both sides. We are human beings, and are entitled to our perspectives and the right to express them freely. And don’t even get me started on the partriarchy… 🙂

  83. Afrocity, this is an energizing, inspiring post. I’ve read it a few times now. You’ve really captured the feelings I and obviously many other PUMAS had during this election season. (As I, a lifelong Democrat, voted FOR John McCain/Sarah Palin.

    “Defiant political posture is a means to an end in the face of rising discrimination on the basis of our sex.” Yes! We must all take a defiant political posture. Stand up straight, take your rights!

    It makes me think of the poster, several weeks or months ago, who confessed that he/she thought “Afrocity” was pronounced “A-Ferocity”. You are totally fierce!

    • LOL. It is Afro-city, so unfortunately I can’t live up to the legend.

    • “Defiant political posture is a means to an end in the face of rising discrimination on the basis of our sex.”

      It’s also a means to an end, where the end is keeping our dignity and sanity. I don’t care what any woman can gain by caving in, the destruction to her soul isn’t worth it.

  84. ps: we needed to see that T shirt!

    FAB of you to use that art!



  85. Good night PUMA’s you can find me and Kara, Avid at



  86. I had to come back to say that I checked my e-mail and it is flowing with messages from conservative women who are saying what they feel about PUMA

    1. I think you are right and I think more women are seeing the folly of radical feminism and want something better. I would be glad to check out the PUMAs. Also please check out A Black Conservative Digest also on Ning. I know you said you don’t always feel comfortable sharing your conservatism with your friends, well this a place where you can do it and other Black women (and men) get it. So please lend your voice to that.

    2. I was the only Republican in the National Womens Political Caucus . We put women in office by our efforts.

    3. I am a conservative. I joined PUMA back before the election too. I became aware of them thru NativeAmericansAgainstObama.

    I get faithfully receive their newsletters just about every day or so. During the campaign/election the newsletters came every day, some times 2x in a day. Their writers were right on top of it all. I appreciate PUMA very much and have been planning to blog in favor of them as well.

    This is very promising.

    • I don’t see any folly at all in feminist principles — I see women calling themselves feminist who are reneging on them. I see that in women I thought I admired for decades, those principles that matters so much to me were shallower than piss on a rock.

    • If we can build bridges, we can be a powerful force to be reckoned with. Real people need to take back our power, and not wait for it to be given to us, in crumbs, by the corporate elitists and their puppets.

    • Folly of radical feminism? Wow. Have the non-radical feminists advanced women’s rights and I missed it?

      • LOL

      • Exactly. The only “folly” I’m seeing is that the women who appointed themselves the guardians and guarantors of women’s rights turned their goddamned BACKS on radical feminism when they opted to use the patriarchy’s tools of sexual violence, humiliation, male fluffing, and backstabbing to keep other women in line.

  87. Wow, this is a great post. In my case I considered myself to be a real “liberal”, a “yellow dog Democrat”, except I am very conservative in my own life issues. What I have learned is that party really doesn’t matter. These labels we gave ourselves, Republican and Democrat, were titles that divided us. I never thought I could be a real friend with a Republican but after May 31st here in Michigan when my non-committed vote was given to Barack Obama, I realized that these two parties are both corrupt to the core. What we people, both men and women, have in common goes far beyond a “meaningless party”. We all want the same things. We want to live our lives in peace and harmony. We want our children to grow up with many opportunities.
    We don’t want our lives centered around war and we want to feel that we are a part of something bigger than ourselves. We don’t want our government using us like left over tissue and discarding us. We want to be able to live a secure, safe life that is fulfilling to us and hopefully as stress free as possible. This doesn’t have to be a utopia. This could be what we all have felt the American dream was about. However, now we know that we are just used by these two corrupt parties, where money is more important than people and the only thing that really matters is “WHO” counts the vote. My blinders are off and I now know that it’s not party that matters but people. I now have embraced my Republican friends without chastising them in my mind. I now look at everyone I meet in a whole new way. It doesn’t matter what party they think they have to attach their name to. What matters is that we educate everyone we meet as to what is really going on with our government. When my brother says to me that Bush is stupid and Barack is “brilliant”, I let him know how he didn’t look so brilliant when he said there were 57 states. To me Obama was put in power by the same people that put Bush there. It’s all about education. I know everyone here knows as much and far more than I do so continue to educate those around you. I silently linger here but tonight I speak because this post called me.

  88. Night Afrocity!!!
    I started a wordpress blog called Age of Aquarius just now. You inspired it AfroCity

  89. I am not used to WordPress. My blog looks all weird!

  90. this is a great post and I think the comments are so unbelievably insightful and moving and I will read them over and over.

  91. What a great thread! Full of spirit and energy. Thanks Afrocity & new friends. Let’s keep the conversation going.

  92. […] might look a lot like this post and the comments that […]

  93. Afrocity,

    Welcome to the PUMA family 🙂 !!!!!

  94. This post and conversation make me feel happy. Thanks to everyone who chimed in – and to everyone reading along.

  95. Thank you for this post Afrocity, and welcome back, you’ve been missed!

    I remember when you were in pain about your place as a PUMA. I think you’re a bit like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz; she always could go home, she just didn’t know it….and you always had a place here, as long as you wanted to be here. (IMHO)

    Anyhow, I am so glad to see you here, and I’ve been lurking at your site, too. Well done all around! Maybe I’ll get up the nerve to post there sometime…

  96. […] might look a lot like this post by Afrocity and the comments that […]

  97. Excellent post, and I hope there are more to come. Nice perspective. I think in the end there is a lot of common ground. Whether we were previously on the side of the red gang or the blue gang, it turns out that neither political gang was on our side. We need to push our agendas and policies to both parties and the press. And not let people get away with what we saw against both Hillary and Sarah.

  98. This post has truly gladdened a tired, old, male activist’s heart.

    Civil, inteligent, profound discourse from many varied perspectives! What a concept?

    Bit of background:
    Became literally embroiled in civil rights movement May 1961(present in Rev. Abernathy’s Ripley St. Bapt. Church w/Dr. King when attacked). Remained involved.

    Executive director large, active, successful southern civil right org. throughout ’70s, into ’80s.

    Married to brilliant activist. She founded the first Women’s Political Caucus in our area, ’74 (intergrated).

    We won every battle we ever fought, local, state, and national levels…..except the ERA! That battle broke our backs, and burned us out. We fought hard, and to this day cannot accept the fact that we failed.

    The irony of the ERA battle was the fact that the ERA, as written, was one of the most simple, straight forward pieces of legislation ever. It contained nothing about political parties, religion, choice, ethnicity, etc.

    It was merely about equality for women, period! All women, and all women were free to exercise said equality as they wished. We were, in actuality, fighting for the rights of the very women who opposed us (Eagle Forum, Schlafly, etc.)

    I said all of the above ( and apologize for my verbosity) in order to convey that the dialogue on this post offers hope to both of us(she read the post and comments also) that the ERA ( or some other concrete staement of equality) may still become law, instead of the token concessions that now exist.

    Women (and men), as represented in this post, coming together, as people and voters, demanding equality, without constricting labels, is the utmost expression of Democracy, and the most empowered threat the status-quo powers will ever confront.

    Women (and men who support them) have the numbers, and coming together (as in this post) increases the voice, and the clout. Patriarchy has failed, it is long past time that Matriarchy was given a chance.

    Thank you Afrocity for the post, and all commenters for one of the most encouraging exchanges I have ever witnessed.

  99. So Feminism is dead, the women’s movement has failed, so what are women to do. How can the women’s movement suceed the way the civil rights movement has suceeded, the way Jews have suceeded in making anti-semitic jokes not PC. So sad to learn the failure of the women’s movement is due to women and not the patriarchy. I guess the American Feminist movement is useless.

    • Feminism is not dead. It needs to be rejuvenate. I think it is more needed now than ever. So many eyes were opened last year.

  100. i believe the first order of business is a clearer picture of inclusiveness, that it is for All women, not dependant on class, family choices,
    It’s possible many women felt rejected., for their personal choices in lifestyle. As sell outs.

  101. Late to the party – just wanted to say, afrocity I really like your post. (Except for the “Hillary lost the primary” part, LOL).

  102. Afrocity, this effort to reach across is SO cool. Two thumbs up for everyone taking part.

    I doubt that while repeating his teleprompter ‘s “unity” rhetoric, O ever imagined himself being a catalyst for PUMA. 🙂

  103. Holy crap. Can it be?? PUMA becoming more tolerant of those who are not strictly liberals?!? For a little while there PUMA seemed to narrow and shrink. (not speaking exclusively about this blog) Open the doors. Open the windows. Build the numbers.

  104. Welcome back, Afrocity!

    I guess you can tell that we missed you. Screw party labels–they’re just another means of fomenting division by those who would rather keep us all divided. WMCB said it best: We sink or swim together, whether our courses are joined or only parallel or even sometimes at odds.

    I’ve always loved your contributions–your humor, your insights, and your wonderfully expressed sense of outrage. I also hope this means we get to hear your voice on Conflucian radio again. And thanks for bringing your friends–I’m sure I will disagree with them on many points, but I also know that we will learn from one another by keeping the conversation alive.

  105. Great post and great thread! I am soooo glad to see afrocity posting here! All the new names and new perspectives are wonderful. I’ve seen so much closemindedness lately and this is really refreshing.

  106. I hope your surgery went well. Been there, done that.

    (Not American)

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