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Sunday: Guns and Roses

A couple of days ago, Joseph Cannon responded to this “make nice” sentiment from someone at Democratic Underground who wanted to put the bloody primary battle behind him:

Sure the Primaries were brutal around here and I’m told I was lucky to have joined after the 2004 election. I know I’m still nursing bruises from this one.

Maybe it’s the “hippie at heart” in me but, peace, guys and gals. Can we put the flowers in the barrels of our rifles for awhile and agree to disagree on how our new President is doing without becoming generic internet assholes to each other?

Joseph Cannon wants an apology.  With all due respect to Joe, an apology is pretty pointless if the offenders don’t know what to be sorry about.

So, to any of you DU lurkers who are out there, let me tell you what the problem is.  The primary *IS* the problem.  It isn’t merely that our gal lost, though from what we can tell, she really didn’t. No, the problem is you didn’t see what really happened.  Now, that the glamour has rubbed off of Obama and he is revealed to be just another human being and shmoozer extraordinaire, you are upset that he isn’t listening to you and responding to your perfectly acceptable demands for ending the war and holding the finance industry accountable.  Now, you are looking around for allies hoping that we can all get along to *do* something and hold Congress and Obama accountable.

But the end of the primary was conducted in such a way as to make your input unnecessary, even irrelevant.  This is what you agreed to when you did not stand up at the RBC hearing and demand fairness.  Your cheering of Obama or even silence in the matter gave the party permission to ignore you in the future.  THEY knew that Hillary was the true winner and that Obama ran a lousy campaign.  That’s why they gave him 59 unpledged delegates from Michigan plus 4 of his opponents.  They did it so he could beat her.  He couldn’t have done it otherwise.  He didn’t have sufficient votes and FL and MI were going to have to count no matter how you do the math.  So, they rigged the vote.

Now, you may say that we keep coming back to this like we are bitter deadenders and why don’t we get over it.  To be honest, it wasn’t about Hillary after May 31.  Oh, we still wanted her and we hadn’t finished exhausting our options.  We had an obligation to see it through to the very end so we could give everyone time to come to their senses and realize what they were about to do.  And we were faithful to her and ourselves as long as we could be.

But the question is not why we don’t get over it but why you guys still haven’t got a clue.  The party, for whatever reason, wanted Obama in the worst way.  The big money was lavishing him with scads and scads of cold hard cash.  The party wanted to win at all costs.  So, they chose the candidate and created “UNITY” by throwing out all of the votes that did not conform to that choice.  All Hillary voters were gone; all other voters were unified.  It was so easy to do because they flattered you and played on your emotional weaknesses.  Once you let them get away with rigging things, there was no further reason for them to pay attention to you.  You missed your accountability moment.  You, the voter, are now superfluous.  They can rig things anyway they like now, take as much lobbying money they want, break as many promises as they like and there’s not a damned thing you can do about it.  You showed them that they would not be held accountable for cheating.

As far as I can tell, the roses in the guns aren’t going to help us.  We who were scorned, called racists and Republicans and generally treated like stupid old trailer trash have been vindicated.  He is everything we said he was.  We stayed true to ourselves and our values.  You guys have to examine your conscience and figure out if the Obamagasm frenzy was worth it.  The party is now divided against itself.  How conveeeeenient.  Going forward, the elements of the left will try to come together in fits and starts but it will be a cold, hard slog.  Some of us will never trust each other again.  Others will only remain viable if they take money from Obama’s extended financial network and they’ll never raise their voices when they need to.  The only way to reconstitute the left that remains scorched and burning after Obama’s triumphant march through it, is for those of you who zealously supported him to go back to that day in May and realize what that momentous day portended.

No apologies needed.

Here’s a little something to help you remember.  This is Harold Ickes, advisor to Hillary Clinton.  He is the son of Harold Ickes Sr., one of the engineers of FDR’s New Deal.  Let that sink in for a moment while you contemplate the current financial crisis.  May 31, 2008 was chock full of symbolism. Women vs African Americans, rich vs. poor, The New Deal vs everyone for themselves, Michigan, auto workers, unions, fair reflection.  It’s all there.  Forget Hillary for a moment and feel the shame.

Please DIGG & Share!!

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199 Responses

  1. As I always say, “get over it” is for team sports.

    This election wasn’t a team sport. It was about our country and our future. “Getting over” the primaries is not an option.

    • We’ve said that before on this blog: what is is we’re supposed to get over?

      The Constitution?
      Voter’s rights?
      Party manipulation and self-serving power-hungry polls?
      The death of a free press?
      Wall St. & corporations buying elections?

      • The extreme misogyny, directed not “just” at Hillary (although that in and of itself is unforgivable, not that they’ve ever even offered even a halfassed apology…) but at the millions of Democratic women who even “dared” vote for her.

        The nasty classist attacks on Hillary’s backers- because Hillary’s backers were overwhelmingly from the ranks of the poor and lower middle class, while the Obots were from the wealthier classes.

      • fif, add DEMOCRACY to your What is that we are supposed to get over? list

  2. Bravo! Well said and very true. Unfortunately, we are stuck in a third term of greed and war. No apology will ever change that.

  3. (nodding empatically) Bravo!

  4. Has anyone heard from Harold Ickes lately?

  5. How anyone can get over losing Universal Health Care-I just don’t know.

    • By being violently conformist and otherwise uninformed and apathetic? Works for some Obots I know.

  6. I’m with you 100% on this one RD. An apology would be pointless from these people. If Josepb Cannon is content with that, that’s fine for him. We each must do what we must do and as we believe.

    As for me, I can never, will never forgive what was done. A crime against democracy isn’t a misdemeanor to me. It’s a crime against everything I believe in and everything I used to think this country stood for. An apology? Not needed, not wanted and not nearly enough.

    • Well, let’s leave out the question of whether or not I would feel content. I just want the apology anyways. I want the display of humility.

      I don’t know what it is about the modern world. People would rather scrape their nipples off with a vegetable peeler than apologize about ANYTHING. And I’m not just talking about politics, here. These days, if some guy at a party steps on your foot, he blames you for putting your foot there.

      Why is that? Are people really so insecure?

      • It’s part of the non-accountability culture we are living in. If you apologize for something, you’re taking responsibility, and you logically then must be accountable for the outcome or amelioration of it. And no-one seems to be willing to do that these days.

        • It also has to do with the competitive nature of “things” — which is encouraged by advertisers who use competitive sports to sell stuff. An apology is an act of grace, cooperation and goodwill. These are virtues which are no longer important.

  7. That speech is even more powerful now than it was on that awful day.

    • Very true, bostonboomer. At the time I was just proud that Ickes spoke up and I agreed with him on the merits. This morning when I viewed it I cried because when his words were ignored by the DNC I knew it as the death of the party I had been a proud member of for forty years. Unfortunately, there is no going back. The vase is broken. And even if it is glued back together [somehow] it will never be the same because the cracks will show.

      riverdaughter – another excellent post and analysis.

      • Bert, I too am in awe and full of tears after hearing Ickes’s speech again!! I’m just so glad that you all you have been proud Dems for a very long time (40 yrs., 60 years, etc.) spoke out and took action against the flaunting of our Democracy!

        So many people told me that despite my own activism of over 20 years, I was still “a babe in the woods to politics” and couldn’t understand that concessions needed to be made, blah, blah, blah….

        Did you too get the feeling that when Ickes said “And on, and on, and on” he really mean to shout This is bullshit ?!?

        • RD — sorry about the multiple posts… something wrong with my computer today, please feel free to delete extras

      • Bert, I too am in awe and full of tears after hearing Ickes’s speech again!! I’m just so glad that you all you have been proud Dems for a very long time (40 yrs., 60 years, etc.) spoke out and took action against the flaunting of our Democracy!

        So many people told me that despite my own activism of over 20 years, I was still “a babe in the woods to politics” and couldn’t understand that concessions needed to be made, blah, blah, blah….

        Did you too get the feeling that when Ickes said “And on, and on, and on” he really meant to shout This is bullshit ?!?

      • Bert, I too am in awe and full of tears after hearing Ickes’s speech again!! I’m just so glad that you all you have been proud Dems for a very long time (40 yrs., 60 years, etc.) spoke out and took action against the flaunting of our Democracy!

        So many people told me that despite my own activism of over 20 years, I was still “a babe in the woods to politics” and couldn’t understand that concessions needed to be made, blah, blah, blah….

        Did you too get the feeling that when Ickes said “And on, and on, and on” he really meant to shout This is bullshit ! ?!?

  8. Well done, RD. The primary completely changed how I look at the political landscape in this country.

    I get that many Obama supporters deeply believed that he was more “progressive” than Hillary, though I think they were naive for thinking so. But you don’t destroy the voting process in this country to get in the guy that you think is “better”. Not even if you sincerely thought he was “better”.

    If our votes don’t count, if the party apparatus can do whatever it wants, then we have NOTHING. No leverage, no influence.

    Yes, I’ve changed, and for me now the idea that votes must be fair and votes must count is paramount – above party, above every other principle, even above causes I hold dear. I would rather see the worst republican elected fairly than see a progressive selected by rigging the game with money, backroom deals, bullying, and intimidation.

    Because if we lose our votes, we are doomed as a people, and our founding principles are trashed. A benign and progressive dictatorship is still a dictatorship, and to be opposed. If we lose our votes to a selection machine, whether on the right or on the left, then nothing else matters. We are America no longer, and cannot control who leads or governs us.

    You are correct that the Obama supporters who are becoming appalled at what they have wrought need to understand that. They NEED to go back to the primaries. Not because anyone is whining over Hillary, or are bitter dead-enders, but in order to see the many points at which THEY gave their approval, tacit or otherwise, to the idea that their opinion or their vote means nothing.

    I don’t want an apology, either. I want them to understand what they’ve done, and how dangerous it is. I could not give a flying fuck about my bruised feelings – this is about my COUNTRY.

    • That’s it in a nutshell, WMCB.

    • Hear, hear, WMCB – people believe we are still stuck on Hillary – they don’t get it. They don’t understand how damaging their actions were to our country.

      • Spot on. For me it has always been about Voting Rights and I still feel we need a new Voting Rights Act to insure that what happened on May 31st, 2008 by the Democratic DNC RCB NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN to any American Citizen.

        One Person One Vote should be held/regarded and respected in order to live in a Free Democracy, any less doesn’t equal representation by the people, but by a few chosen ‘Super Delegates’. 😦

    • Excellent WMCB. However, I do not think that it is as simple as they thought he was more progressive. That was just laziness. The least bit of research revealed his continual lies and hypocrisy. His rhetoric rarely matched his actions or his history, and now they are shocked that he is untrustworthy?

      Also, what disturbed me the most is that I watched our Party BECOME what we hated about Republican tactics. The Dems, and the supporters of these actions, sold out everything that supposedly made us the Party I was willing to support with pride. Money, propaganda, voter manipulation–how could we claim any moral authority over the likes of Rove & Cheney when they were willing to use the same tools to get what they wanted? The end does NOT justify the means! It is profoundly anti-democratic. Now, as he uses the same manipulative, two-faced tactics to advance his own goals, and it is not aligned with what they “hoped” he would do, it’s bothering them?


      • how could we claim any moral authority over the likes of Rove & Cheney when they were willing to use the same tools to get what they wanted?

        We can’t.

    • Excellent Points WMCB!!! I do not need any apologies, I just want them to see the cold hard truth.

    • *applause*

    • WMCB — Spot on!

      I don’t want them to just see the whole cold truth … they need to PUBLICLY ADMIT TO THAT TRUTH

      There are still vast amounts of Dems who believe that Obama was elected fairly and was the best candidate, and its because those who are “now becoming dismayed with Obama” still won’t admit the cold hard truth, Obama was a willing participant in the crafting of Democracy to his own ends … if he was willing to do this for a FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE AND RIGHT WE HAVE AS AMERICANS, what else is he willing to destroy?

  9. Wonderful video of Ickes. Seeing that RBC meeting was what started me blogging. I never knew what a blog was b4 that.

    • The RBC meeting was the turning point for me too. I couldn’t believe that I sat through 6 hours of a televised political session and then I couldn’t believe what I saw and heard happen with my own ears and ayes. As Ickes said, it was the hijacking of democracy.

  10. Sometimes I feel that it would be almost better if the Party were to choose its candidate itself, at a Party convention, -the way they do in Europe.

    It would cost individual States and taxpayers a way lot less, so too the candidate’s sustainees. It would feed less easy income to the media, and in a final analysis, would cut down the power of lobbyists.

    Candidates in order to succeed, would have to build up solid support within their own Party. Behavioral electoral wizards, such as Axelrod, would have a lesser role in getting their candidate selected.

    • I believe this is how it works in Canadian federal politics.

    • But then the party leaders will become more powerful. Only the ones they like will be chosen. Most countries in Europe also have at least 4-5 parties which forces the parties to build coalitions.

      • I don’t see how that could be any worse than what happened in the primaries in 2008. The “party leaders” certainly chose Obama and made sure that he got selected. The only difference would be that there’d be no need for a pretence that it wasn’t happening.

    • Back in the 40’s and 50’s that is sort of the way it was. There were primaries, but the final decision was up to Party leaders at the Coinvention. In Chicago Slim’s case Party leaders would have chosen him as the fix was in. So this comment is just a historical foot note.

  11. “You showed them that they would not be held accountable for cheating.”

    That is exactly it. I am still stunned that no one cares that he used voter manipulation, suppression and fraud to win–especially after all the screaming about Bush 2000. For Obots, principle-breaking is only outrageous if it is not used to advance your own (supposed) agenda.

    That rant by Ickes sealed it for me. Glued to the TV, watching the entire RBC debacle, I became increasing horrified by what I witnessed. (The “rulz” bullsh*t by Brazille catalyzed the fury.) FINALLY, Ickes came out and told the unvarnished truth, expressing the outrage we felt. Harriet Christian’s explosion in the lobby was the politically incorrect version. That day is embedded in my cells.

    It’s the injustice, stupid.

  12. I thought nothing could be worse than Florida 2000,
    but I was wrong. We deserve better.
    Howard Dean, on the other hand…
    deserves Donna Brazille.

    • Donna Brazile at the RBC Meeting

      Donna Brazile playing poker with voters and showing hands (making deals) and screw the ‘One Person One Vote’ that is central to any Democracy.

      Just listening to her shows how they had plotted this mess all out… SHAMEFUL! Voters be damned it all was about their agenda, only they never told anyone really that it was BUSH III.

      • Delegate Selection

        Howard Dean discusses his role in LGBT Delegate Selection. Gov. Dean Clip in DC Discrimination, Defamation, and Conspiracy to Defame Lawsuit
        Rule 6A, to include gays is explained. To mediate between to factions? Listen and see who the two factions are and @10:59 we discover WHO took the position that there be NO CHANGE (see they don’t want change its all smoke and mirrors).
        In this deposition it is disclosed that DONNA BRAZILE was the ‘INFLUENTIAL INDIVIDUAL’ . Who elected Donna Brazile and why is she a ‘Super Delegate’.

        What else is the DNC hiding? Do they really seek equality? Why has the media not covered this and why weren’t we told about ‘SEPARATE BUT EQUAL’ in regards to LGBT community @ 11:00 during the primary?

        • That’s an incredible video-in addition to what you mention re Donna Brazile, he later declares:

          Dean-“equal representation for Gays and Lesbians” to be achieved “in a way that wasn’t offensive to the Civil Rights Movement” ….
          Really sounds as if Donna calling the shots…

          • That is possibly the most revealing remark ever made by the Dems regarding LGBT’s. How is it “offensive to the Civil Rights Movement” to work toward civil rights? The correct phrasing would have been, “equal representation for Gays and Lesbians”was to be achieved “in a way that doesn’t offend the bigotry of African American evangelicals.”

            In other words, it was not to be achieved at all.

          • It WAS Donna, and Rev. Leah Daugherty (mainly) calling the shots. Dean was a vocal LGBT supporter until Daugherty/Brazile raised hell about the issue then, there was a whole brouhaha with a staffer getting fired with hearings that Dean had to testify at.


            This article links to the whole backstory.

          • Plus, I think Donna’s got identity issues.

        • What Dean really said, in translation, was that gay people are distasteful to, and seen as less than by a proportion of African Americans that is large enough to worry the Dem Party. The Dems are on record as not being willing to risk those votes for something like gay and lesbian rights.

          It’s not just evangelicals. We should be clear about that or we (gay folk) are not ever going to get anywhere. If we pretend that it is only evangelicals or fundamentalists who are against us, we will miss the mark again and not target our efforts appropriately. Many people hate us at worst, are comfortable denying us rights at best. It’s better not to pretend that not the case.

  13. I still don’t understand how you can take delegates from one person and give them to another person who wasn’t even on the ballot. How do you justify that?

    • And the justification?

      Based on unopened absentee ballots, and people who MIGHT HAVE VOTED for him if there had been a primary…it boggles the mind.

      I’m still angry that more of the truth was not revealed for the sake of Party “unity” and politeness. He took his name off the ballot to promote himself in Iowa and NH, then when it came time, he mounted an aggressive campaign for the uncommitted votes and still lost by the 20% the polls indicated. He also ran ads in Florida for 2 weeks prior to the election (and I don’t give a sh*t about how ads are packaged–that is a LIE!). Where was Donna whining about the rulz in Florida?!

      I can’t even discuss this without my blood pressure going up. I am still so *&#?!!* angry about it all.

  14. OT-from the BBC-“Obama brother refused entry to UK ”


  15. What is always amazing to me is that the same people who would decry a policy of “might makes right” on the world stage, had no problem at all with a policy of “might makes right” in their own country.

    They are only pissed off now, because he is not doing what they want. The question is – would you be angry even if he were doing what you want, but doing it illegally? The Bushies didn’t care that GW was breaking the law, because he was doing things they wanted. Are you any different?

    Every liberal in this country needs to ask themselves, “If I could achieve all of my stated goals for healthcare, war policy, reform, etc – but could only do it by trampling on the voting rights of others, and installing a dictator to illegally enforce it, would I be for or against?”

    I fear that the answer of many would be “for”. Mine would be “against”.

    But then, I’m one of those backward old liberals who thinks the Constitution and the Bill of Rights mean something. We are either a nation of laws and principles, or we are not. And THAT, my friends, has nothing to do with being right or left.

    • Right again WMCB. They do-not-get-it. Reducing it to Hillary is simplistic and patronizing. It completely misses the point. She was just the symbol for true Democratic principles. But they wanted New! & Improved! & Cool!

      Willful blindness. How could they not see what a shmoozer and con artist he was/is? It was obvious to me from the first debate–the inexperience, his arrogance, and the contrived MLK impersonation. It’s like young kids who become in love with love. It’s not even about the other person–they are intoxicated with the feeling, and allow it to completely obliterate their judgment.

      • Yes, but it wouldn’t matter if he WAS completely sincere, and a true progressive. That’s a different argument. I really don’t care if the Obots ever admit that he’s a contrived marketing construct.

        My point is that we are either a nation of laws and representative govt or we are not. If the only point on which they “come around” is that he is now not performing as expected, so they’re angry, then they’ve entirely missed it.

        • They have entirely missed it! That’s what’s so scary.

          They would rather have someone tell them what to do and how to think then to do the work themselves. Isn’t that partly how a dictatorship starts. No one really wants to lose all their rights, they are just wrapped up in the feeling of having someone (A FATHER FIGURE) give them everything they want — hope, identity, coolness, fitting in, and any other good feeling they want, like believing that someone really will be able to end all wars if the world just loves Th him. They don’t realize that they really can’t get something for nothing and the concession is their individual power and democracy. Democracy is not beautiful and filled with flowers while we all run skipping around in the sunshine, rahter it is ugly, brutal, and like a true marriage committed to equality requires a lot of hashing the details out.

    • WMCB you are on a great roll today! Give ’em ‘ell !!!

    • Besides, Teh One is beefing up the war in Afghanistan, trashing attempts for single-payer health care, and continuing to spy on the American people a la Bush.

      No wonder he thought nothing of trampling on voting rights to get there.

    • WMCB, you are on fire today!

  16. Happy Easter everyone. The sun is out for a change, so I’m going to get a walk in–must balance the anger, because this is a marathon, not a sprint.

    • Happy Easter fif.

      Today in church there was a quote in the bulletin to the effect that truth will always resurrected. You can crucify it, bury it, and deny it, but resurrection will always reach the truth and lift it up.

      Words to that effect, anyhow. Sitting there reading that quote, in what I can only describe as O-church-maximus during the election, gave me a secret thrill of joy.

  17. It’s not even what they’ve done. More important is what they continue to do. DU is a haven for those who want to “love their president” and “trust their president” and those concerned about illegal wiretapping, renditions, accountability for crimes, universal health care, gay marriage, banker bailouts, military drones, escalation in Afghanistan, private armies in Iraq, and so forth, needs to get over the “poutrage.” I suggest they get a civics textbook and figure out how the American political system is supposed to work. They might discover the difference between a citizen and a fan. Then again, they might not.

    They didn’t ask the serious questions then and they smeared and destroyed anyone who did. They still do and the handful who are starting to go blinking into the sunlight of reason are on internet message boards. They’re not so much on editorial boards or city councils or in universities or NGOs, at least not where I live and work. In my real life world, I’m still astonished by the smug and vapid support for the vanity president. It’s overwhelming and it is becoming an echo chamber ideology.

    So many BO supporters never cared about civil rights or Bush administration crimes, that’s clear now. If they did, they’d confront the groupies with as much vigor as they confronted us. They simply don’t care that much, I don’t think.

    I don’t care about an apology. Rather, I want BO fans to wake the &$(%@ up grow the #&$@ up — to accept responsibility for what they destroyed and the opportunity they wasted and get to work. To stop with the nasty and stupid obsession with Sarah Palin and RW radio talk show hosts and a Republican party that is in tatters. Danger is a fact of life — we live in an increasingly unstable society and world — but their failure to hold the Dems accountable is **publicly sanctioned and big media blessed, continuing the institutionalized injustices they claimed to challenge.** How many people will suffer because fanatics and media tabloids are more concerned about the White House puppy than proper health care? How many people will suffer because BO supporters need to justify their narcissism rather than cop to policies of empire? How many people will suffer because BO supporters forgot that they used to hate corporate media and now, are conveniently forgetting that fact? How many people will continue to suffer because the sheen of hypocrisy must be maintained, just so they don’t have to feel bad about themselves?

    Lots. Lots and lots. Sure, in time, the right will will come up with some new rough beast slouching to Bethlehem, but they’re down for the count right now. I don’t care about Glenn Beck or Chuck Norris. What chills me are the hypocrites who control the Dem party, exec branch and congress, with the blessing of corporate media, with the kiss of Wall Street, with the might of empire. They are the new establishment and increasingly, I’m seeing them as the new evangelicals on the block. This was all about co-opting and destroying the left/liberal/progressive/insert label of choice. Opposition caves to crickets or even applause. An apology won’t change that.

    Yeah, I’m pretty angry about it all.

    • How many people will continue to suffer because the sheen of hypocrisy must be maintained, just so they don’t have to feel bad about themselves?

      Ah, there’s the crux of it, right there. People don’t like to admit they’ve been blind. One of the marks of maturity is not simply to admit you were “wrong or mistaken”, though that’s a start. The harder task is to realize that you believed, and believed deeply, and were dead wrong. Some of us have done that in our lives, in various arenas – whether in faith, or in love, or trust in a friend. Some of us have had the experience in life of realizing not just that we were deceived on a point or two, but have poured or minds and souls into a dangerous illusion. We know what that feels like. And it has shaken us, and made us wiser, and humbler, and less reliant on our own fallible sense of certainty.

      We know from painful experience that zealotry, no matter its righteous cause, is blind. Always, always blind.

      • Yes, WMCB, I believed deeply in the democratic process. That was my “dead wrong” moment…

      • Did the Obots really “believe deeply” though? I’m puzzled as to what it was they believed in, since Obama said absolutely nothing of substance in the debates, throughout the primaries, even after he was selected by the DNC. It was all mirrors and smoke. In what did the Obots “believe”?

  18. Oh dear, I should have expected that last rant would land me in moderation. Would someone be so kind as to release me?

  19. so let me get this got this right. they gave him the 4 dells bause of what they thought Based how pepole might have voted….

    • Yep. They gave him ghost votes. They were offered options of a re-do primary, etc, which they turned down. But it’s even worse.

      The DNC decided they, and they alone, “knew” how Michigan would have voted had Obama been on the ballot, and assigned delegates accordingly. But then they went further, because even that was not enough to give him the lead. So they not only assigned him ALL the delegates that he had not earned (many of them were Edwards voters, Kucinich voters, Biden voters, etc), they also TOOK 4 delegates from Hillary in ADDITION to that, when those people HAD in fact voted for her.

      • i never knew the reason they gave for that thanks ..

      • Kucinich instructed his delegates to go to Obama early on. What was he promised? Also, that move made Hillary’s supporters corner Bill Richards and ask if he was going to do the same, which in essence would go against the voters will and under mind the whole process and the press never covered this either.

        One thing that they are miffed about is that we are still here, but then they haven’t figured out that women have very loooooong memories.

        • I’m pretty sure that the reason Kucinich threw his delegates to Obama in Iowa was due to that behind-the-podium conversation between Edwards and Clinton (initiated by Edwards) wherein Edwards suggested that they try to come up with debate forums that would exclude marginal candidates (like Kucinich). I’m pretty sure that totally destroyed Edwards’ chances of having Kuch instruct his delegate to go to him, as he did in 2004.

          I also know that Kucinich had lost a brother just a few days before he threw his delegates to Obama and dropped out of the race, so I think he was a bit despondent and not really thinking straight. I do know this much–Kuch has been royally P.O.’d at Obama since September, when he caught his first glimpse of how Obama would handle the financial crisis, starting with the first TARP vote and the way Obama twisted arms to get it passed and refused to let Dems insert a provision in the bill that would have allowed bankruptcy judges authority to alter the terms of mortgages for homeowners facing foreclosure.

          • I didn’t know that about Kucinich’s brother. I was always mortified when he approved BO, but now I understand.

          • Kucinich like the rest of the candidates(I don’t remember Biden endorsing anyone) decided to back Obama because he was fresh (according to Nanc)y and they wanted anyone but a Clinton. It is as simple as that. No one has the right to force someone to choose a candidate they don’t like and they made their decision to back Obama. They looked the other side and pretended that they didn’t know he was cheating. Delegates were stolen and none of them said a single word because of their support for Obama. I wonder if they would have said something if it was anyone but a Clinton. Maybe what happened on 31 May 2008 was a onetime thing. The goal was to stop her and since she will never run again, they don’t have to cheat or steal again.

          • Biden threw his “second tier” support behind Obie, too, then backed off in public. In fact, it was “rumored” then “denied” (softly) in more than enough time to have the desired effect. Remember, Biden also said he “wasn’t the guy” for veep, hours before he “was the guy.”

          • This was on the dreaded Huff’nBlow Jan. 2:
            “A decision will be made tomorrow about who we’ll encourage our supporters to stand behind if we aren’t viable in a precinct. Right now, I’d guess Obama gets our support because we’re more inline with his vision of foreign policy than any of the other candidates, and besides, we like him and how he’s run his campaign.”

            “Is Biden angling for a Secretary of State position in an Obama Administration?”

            The Biden consultant told Offthebus, “Well, Joe would make a great Secretary of State, wouldn’t he?”

          • Thanks for that. I didn’t know about Biden’s “endorsement” for Obambi. History won’t be revised with everyone here.

      • Those 4 delegates totalled approximately 18,000 votes…

        If I lived in MI, and I had voted for Hillary, I would have been friggin furious.

      • That really was the appalling coup de gras for me.

        First all the delegates representing the undeclared votes, and then four of Hillary’s actual delegates.

        To me that was the single most anti-democratic maneuver–the one that made clear that the entire process was predetermined, unalterable, and corrupt.

        From that day forward I have been a Dem in name only.

    • They also gave him everybody else’s votes who took their names off the ballot, too. Not all the uncommitted votes were for BO.

      • Sorry, I responded before I read, WMCB. My bad.

      • Most don’t even know that others turned over ‘their’ legislation to Obama so he could run for the Senate and show he did some thing. It was all smoke and mirrors and a PR campaign. Rosa Parks and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were the real deal, they did the walk and took the hardship to make things better.

        • Today I found myself wondering about who he really is and who is really backing him. And where he really comes from and whom he serves.

          I have no faith that he is actually who he says he is–none.

          I’ve never felt this way about a high level politician before.

  20. The Obots and their masters never considered how much bad karma they were bringing on themselves with the crap they pulled last year. They not only cheated but they betrayed fellow Democrats doing it.

    Karma is the reason cheaters never win. They may think they got away with it but they didn’t. Karma will catch up to them, and karma is a you-know-what.

    I* still haven’t figured out when cheating became a progressive value. That ‘s the real difference between liberals and progressives – liberals have principles, but progressives have goals.

    Once you decide that it’s okay to cheat if you do it to reach a worthy goal you’re just haggling over the price.

    • I* still haven’t figured out when cheating became a progressive value.

      When they placed power and value into people beyond the voters, which was after Ted Kennedy, lost and still got a ROLL CALL VOTE, and they made up the Super Delegates.

      They allowed the RBC with Donna Brazile at the lead to play poker with voters, cutting them in half or not counting them at all, given votes to Obama that he didn’t earn…. and on and on… 😦

      • The one thing that made losing to the Bush GOP tolerable was fact that they cheated and we didn’t. I would rather lose than cheat, even if I knew the other side was cheating.

        I won’t be taking pride in the fact that Democrats play by the rules because it’s not a fact anymore.

        • I also take no comfort in that Dems cheated with two states. Even the GOP stole one state at a time and from the other side….

      • And Ted Kennedy is certainly not worthy of getting a roll call vote or my vote.

    • “That ’s the real difference between liberals and progressives – liberals have principles, but progressives have goals.”

      Thanks myiq for clearing that up!

      Democracy is a principle and its up to all of us to also make that the goal.

  21. I see little difference with what the DNC, RBC, and Obots did in 2008 and what the BushieBots did in FL in 2000. A knife was put into the heart of this country in 2000 and the same knife was put into the Democratic party in 2008. And what’s sad is I think most of the people that played a part in 2008 have no idea they did the same thing.

    There has always been corruption in politics. And there has always been money behind the scenes running things or at least having lots of influence. But it seems like we’ve moved into a whole new world with what we’ve seen in 2000 and in 2008. I feel like we may have lost our country. I certainly lost my party. Actually come to think of it, my party lost me.

    I’m not giving up on my country. I’m not even giving up on individual Democratic politicians. But I am giving up on the Democratic party. I’m proudly an independent now. I can be won over again by my old party, but they would have to go to great lengths with massive reforms before I’ll give them another dime.

  22. I wil never forget.

  23. I will never forget.

  24. Brava & Happy Easter RD & Co.

    One thing we do know about REAL Dems?
    They usually have pets. All their lives.
    And, they usually don’t name pets after themselves.
    And, a dog not raised from a pup will never bond completely.
    This is a photo op. DogBo — ?
    Maybe J Crew can do a line for it? Of little snuggy sweaters.
    Nothing would suprise me at this point with the marketing tie ins — and btw — are those clothes made in sweatshops overseas?

    You just can’t fool real Dems, not this year or any other year.

    hugs all round, Dems in exile…

    • And, a dog not raised from a pup will never bond completely.

      I have to take issue with this part. Tell that to my retired racing greyhound, who worships me. 🙂 The rest is spot on.

      • Yes. Dogs are instinctive pack animals. As long as they know their proper place in the pack, their loyalty knows no bounds. I have a dog we got from the Humane Society at the age of three and she adores and worships us.

        • I’ve had both — from pups and not. The pups you raise really bond. I also have cats…

          All my life I have saved animals from either the Pound or the Humane Society. The husband and I have the sort of house where strays show up at the door.

          They know we will call the owners — we have even driven them home many times or arranged for vet care when needed.

          I saved my current dog ten years ago — she is the sort who wanders off anywhere the attention happens to be — never barks?

          I got her when she was a year old. Half Bernese … she got diabetes a few years ago.

          My exp is that if you start the pup it’s yours totally —
          I’ll be getting another pup soon — a Lab. They are great…
          It’s too bad the petless family didn’t start with a pup — but, if they were pet people? They would have brought their pets with them.
          They have never had pets. That is very telling.

          • I always suspect that- people who don’t have pets because they can’t suffer the inconvenience of animal ownership (health or economic reasons are a different beast altogether) just seem like they’re self-absorbed to me.

          • I agree. & the fact that the girls have allergies is no exccuse as I’ve pointed out before — Chicago is a hotbed of alternative therapies and there are successful alternative therapies that cure a person’s allergies… surely the super alternative Obamas would have known about these treatments

      • Agreed.

  25. Democracy was killed on May 31 2008 without firing a shot.
    Democracy was wounded in 2000 and 2004 but the final wound in 2008 killed it.
    It was not killed by an outside source but by citizens that gave up their right to an honest election
    We no longer have a government that is of the people,by the people, and for the people.
    I will never forgive or forget what happened on May 31 2008.



    • I’m with you. Watching that video of Harold Ickes brought back some very bitter memories of May 31,2008, and I will never forgive or forget. What I saw happen to Democracy that day still haunts me, but also reinforces my belief that I did the right thing when I left the Democratic party to become an Independant. If they ever hope to have me back, they better do alot of soul searching and cleaning up their party. My vote is notan entitlement, it has to be earned.

  26. Backtrack finally won an election.
    At No Quarter he won the election for the biggest ass on the political landscape.
    It was an honest election and very hard fought.
    There were so many good candidates that it was hard to choose.
    Donna Brazille came in second.



  27. Is spammy shocked that backtrack finally won an election and will not let it be announced?

  28. I’ll make nice. I’ll bring flowers and put down the guns and hold hands and sing “Feelings” as soon as:
    MY vote is restored (and by mine, I mean each vote legally cast this primary)
    The DNC calls a brokered convention and picks a candidate as the primary results demanded per DNC rules
    Caucus violations be publicized and corrected
    Apologies for all the name calling I received – for being a woman and not a B0bot (and By I – I mean women candidates and voters and all Hillary supporters
    I see this about as possible as the 2000 election being set right and 8 years of Bush being excised from the timeline.

    • First, UNITY PONY I want to see, is the the removal of Donna Brazile and her ‘Super Delegate’ status and the depositions shown to all Democrats across the nation, so that we can see and expose the machine behind the party.

  29. Oops! I tripped up spammy! I fell into moderation and I can’t get up!

  30. I just read all the answers at Cannonfire. I am with myiq:
    not apologies, but restitution. That about covers it.

  31. Right on target RiverDaughter – thanks for that great read today.

  32. Bingo. You cannot forget your heart and expect to keep on breathing. You cannot get over your own death because you are dead. You do not forget the first time you were in love. or the last.

    I accidentally revisted Denver in mixed company (pumas and nonpumas) and before I pulled myself out of it I had shaken the core of both. “Why don’t we know about this?” “Because you don’t want to.” “I voted for Obama because he was better than McCain” “Really, do you still believe that?” “I want to know more” “Good, go to puma.” “Do you hate me?” And to that I could not answer. Yes, and no. but mostly yes. oh, and Hillary won, and she is my president.

    • “Why don’t we know about this?”

      Because you like most Americans are relying on corporate media to give and interpret the news. I honestly have little hope for taking back America for the equality of all when the financial sector has control of media & government.

      I read a comment (can’t remember where maybe BAR) stating BBC America is going to start reporting more as they believe American’s are getting tired of corporate America.

      I’m not the creative sort but I would certainly be open to distributing flyers encouraging people to go beyond the corporate media for news. I doubt it would change the habits of most but hopefully it would introduce doubt.

    • Yep. Hillary won and she is my President.

  33. What happened last year shocked me and I’m not easy to shock..

    By December 2007 I had been hanging around blogs for about two years. I stuck mostly with the lefty blogs and even when I occasionally went over to Wingnuttia I never left any comments.

    Although I was excited about finally seeing the end of G-Dub’s administration I wasn’t paying close attention to the Democratic campaign because there were eight candidates running and I knew that by the time I got to vote on Super-Duper Tuesday I would be lucky if there were two names on the ballot.

    I spent more time watching the GOP follies with McCain broke, Romney spending his own money but apparently unaware that the fundamentalist base of his party thinks Mormons are a satanic cult, Rudy G reminding everyone how he saved the world for democracy on 9-11, Huckabee a bona fide holy roller and Thompson on life support.

    It seemed to me that most everyone on the lefty blogs was excited about the upcoming primaries and while people had their favorite candidates the attitude was that any of the top tier candidates would do. A lot of people were responding to questions about who they planned to vote for by saying “the Democratt.”

    That was towards the end of 2007

    There was little or no animosity towards each other on the lefty blogs – there was cameraderie and the sense that we were all on the same tea.

    Then Kool-aid happened.

    I never saw anything like that in my life. I was the target of unhinged attacks for just defending Hillary. At first I wasn’t even criticizng Obama. The first thing I didn’t like about Obama was his supporters. They’re still high on the list.

    Even the mildest criticism of Obama was treated as blasphemy, and they made no effort to be polite or reasonable. I still don’t understand where there anger came from.

    It’s not like Hillary and Obama had some history between them and each led factions that had clashed before. We were mostly all Democrats and I had always assumed I would be voting for a Democrat in November.

    The hostility didn’t build up over months or years, it was unleashed like a blitzkreig attack. By the second week of January it was open war on all the lefty blogs.

    The attacks were so vicious and irrational I couldn’t imagine that real lefties were making them.

    For a couple months I suspected that the GOP was behind it, paying operatives to pose as Obama supporters and attack Hillary supporters.

    • yes. to everything. the minute I saw what’shisname on the screen I knew the shit was through the fan and we were neck deep. I also knew that the black man vs. woman thing had killed the feminist movement and we were dead in the water–as usual. but what turned the tide for me was voting in the texas primary. i drove up with my best friend in tow (legal, but not able to vote YET) and we saw angry white man after angry white man holding BO signs. Like you know the sky is falling I knew bad bad juju was afoot. We got out of my truck and a hispanic man in spanish told my friend Hillary Clinton wanted to deport her. My friend told him back in english that he was a racist sexist fool and she was legal and voting for Hillary Clinton (in her heart). He then called us both every foul name in the book. On this day I googled BO and found him to be part of Trinity church and the evil gang of those who sell all for a dollar and HATE women and etc., etc. So I joined the fight knowing we would lose but knowing I could not not join. It was the saddest moment of my life and I will never be the same. Fuck them all until they die and even then I will not be satisified. not even close.

    • In the end though we stood fast and that has got to count for something, because had we gone along with the farce then all hope would have been lost. I always thought the Democrats held the high ground, but not any more, I saw they were willing to disenfranchise voters in ways not seen in over a hundred years and that they really don’t support Women’s Rights and the Civil Rights as seen with what was done to the LGBT community. 😦

    • myiq, I think you were onto something, but it wasn’t the GOP doing it. It was probably the Axelrove astroturfing machine.

      I detest the weasel.

    • Joe Rospars, Blue State Digital, Trippi-trained twenty-something, Obot internet phenom. Hired late 06/07? Behind the 1984 You Tube video, probably Obama Girl, but left fewer fingerprints on that one.
      Commandeered Joe Anthony’s mybarackobama MySpace page.
      He’s they guy who unleashed the KoolAid Brigade.
      Did a post on it yesterday.

    • As it turns out, it was the axelrove machine feeding the blogs with their own people and paying others to jump on the kool-aid wagon. And lots and lots more jumped on because the became “believers”. Suckers. I know of one of the insider paid blog commenters, through a mutual friend, who now works in the Obama admin, in treasury of all places. Chicago politics at its best.

      • I predict that in the next few years we will see a number of individuals come forward and confess to being paid to astroblog for Obama last year.

        Some of them may even be telling the truth.

        it’s like someone claiming he is a retired CIA agent – how do you prove he’s lying?

        The director of the CIA could tell reporters the guy is lying, and the guy will say “Of course he did – official policy is to never admit it”

      • The blog attack was a real factor to those who use the computer to talk, exchange ideas, etc. But, I think that the big villian in it all was the media. Many people get all their news from tv. I will never forget the faux news people. And, I think we should have an all out attack on them. Never let them forget what a terrible injustice they perpetuated on the American people.

        • You’d be surprised at how many columnists and news segment producers are “inspired” by the bloggers. Plus, the astroturfers infiltrated MSM comments sections, too, like WaPo, NYT, ABC, MSNBO, Time, Slate, Salon, The Root, CNN, and so on, and so on.

        • I think Axelrod gamed the media the same way he did the bloggers. Make them feel important, spend lots of money on ads, plus attack ferociously and constantly whenever anything negative makes it into a story or on air.

    • Yes. I was neutral about Obama at first — didn’t know much about him — and the vehemence and meanness of his followers got my hackles up. Then I did some more research and was surprised his actions were so different from his words — that automatically makes me suspicious.

      Never figured out how so many voters turned Obots.

      • NWLuna describes my feelings about Obama quite well–at first, I was willing to vote for him if the Dems nominated him, but then I learned more about the way he and his Oborg Collective operated, the less I liked him and them, to the point that when the general election came around, I voted for McKinney.

  34. Spammy please release Edgeofforever…:-(

  35. I just heard on my car radio that Capt. Phillips has been rescued, unharmed. 3 of the 4 pirates were killed, a 4th captured. I just typed this in and did not take time to see if you already had it posted. I was just so thrilled to hear the news. Now that is breaking news lo tho that puppy from uncle Ted is important.

  36. Navy frees Phillips, 3 pirates dead.


    • What I want to know is why this situation wasn’t handled after the first couple hijackings?

      It’s been going on a while now. Bush was the first to do nothing, but Obama has had a couple months to do nothing either.

      Once upon a time the British navy used to catch and hang pirates regardless of whose ships they pirated.

      • Not I fancy the pirates the British hired to steal from the Spanish.

        • Those weren’t pirates. They had a royal commission to intercept Spanish gold shipments so they were “privateers”

          When the cops take your car its called “asset forfeiture” not “stealing”

  37. I don’t know how the rest of you feel but I think of that American commercial ship crew and Capt. Phillips and I see the America I believe: resourceful, risk-taking, never-quit, skilled. I would add patient and persistent. I just hope that this victory remains theirs in the same way it was for the pilot who fired our imaginations with his landing on the water under amazing conditions. The authenticity of these people just shimmers in comparison to the tin echo of the media made man.

  38. To the topic of this thread—we will not hear in present times any of the things we want to hear or changes we want to see. History will write this story but it will fall upon a new generation of historians who have objectivity of time and distance to get anywhere near the truth of what happened.

    As I see what is actually happening, I can not help but believe that the bargain O and his handlers struck with the superdelegates was not around money—which I thought at first—it was around power. The bargain was that O would operate hands off from congress.

  39. Watching Harold made me cry all over again – time for a walk in the woods with the dog.

  40. The obots have entirely missed the point and they will continue to miss the point. After all, they elected a logo. Shallow minds with a winning-is-the-only-thing attitude. I don’t expect much from them. I only hope that they lose all interest in the voting process and just sit the rest of the elections out.

  41. Harold Ickes. What a great speech. I also remember that Lannie Davis was a source of much good support for HRC. I wish we could all have an off the record retreat with the Hillster where she could speak her heart and we could hear her truth. I would find that more healing and helpful than mea culpas from the truly culpable.

    • Lannie Davies was great on May 31st, 2008, he came out and greeted all of us that had come from all parts of the nation and he was a great moral booster.

      • Lanny went over to the dark side pretty quickly, if you ask me.

        • He did PUMA blocktalk radio, but shortly thereafter, yes..he did. I still appreciate that he stood with Hillary and the voters during the tough times, as a party person he was expected to fall in line later on. I didn’t and in many ways it has cost me dearly.

          When you faced greater things, you learn that some things one simply can’t compromise on, and Voting Rights for me is one of those most sacred held rights of democracy that must be honored if you are to live in a free society.

  42. The “just get over it” attitude is of a piece with the “move forward” meme being pushed by the Obama administration with regard to Bush/Cheney transgressions and the finance industry’s crimes and everything bad we have suffered during the past eight years. There are no consequences for bad actions — so why should anyone restrain themselves from acting badly? If anything you do today will be excused tomorrow as “yesterday’s news,” being “stuck in the past,” “irrelevant to the solution,” then you might as well do whatever you want to do, even if it hurts other people. As this attitude further permeates our society, I think we will see the horrific crimes dominating the news the past few weeks as the norm.

    I have been seeing the expression “words mean something” for the last year. Well, where I grew up, words don’t mean squat — actions tell the true tale. So what am I going to believe — Obama’s words, or my lying eyes? Guess…

    • Unless it’s coming from a friend or family member who is genuinely concerned about you, “get over it” really means “I don’t care”

  43. To RD/ other frontpagers:

    The link to Cannonfire on the sidebar doesn’t work (link address is in error).

    Great post.

  44. Like many, I was there listening to Ickles.

    They can apologize by removing every arrogant, immature, rolling of the eyes, haughty, grandiose, ego inflated member of the RBLC.

    It was the most disgusting example of egotistical, narcissistic leadership of the Democratic party that was ever publicly displayed. Ever.

  45. For those of us who did vote in the Democratic Party primary in ’08 and saw our votes wasted, what is the best strategy in 2010? My vengeful side wants to smite the party and not vote in the primary. My “suck-it- up-side” wants to go to the polls and essentially vote out the b__t__rds. How can we both protest and have a positive impact on the next election ? Can we even trust the Democratic Party at any level to assure our votes count the next time?

  46. Thanks for writing this, RD. I left DU way back when for all the reasons you just outlined.

    We will not forget.

  47. moderation – let me out

  48. I just came home and saw on the net headlines
    Captain Phillips is freed. There was a firefight 3 of th 4 pirates are dead and the captain is on the USS Boxer.
    What a wonderful Easter for his family.

    Happy Easter



  49. Thank you, RD. I don’t think anyone could have said it better. Where are those little buttons that allow me to upload your posts to my Facebook account? I love doing that each morning. Thanks again for being you and the voice for all of us.

  50. As for the release of Phillips I will say what I said before about piracy:

    Pirates can be dealt with very simply, if we have the nerve:

    1) merchant vessels and crews in pirate prone areas should be armed (with cannons like in the olden days)

    2) pirate vessels should be shot on sight… okay, give them a warning first so they can exit their boat, then blast it the h3ll out of the water

    3) These crimes occur in international waters and the perpetrators are therefore operating outside of the rule of law of any sovereign state. We need to grow a pair and deal with them.

    Hopefully I did that right.

    As for the election:

    I was a Democrat all my life — a centrist Democrat who disagreed with much of the party platform, but who swallowed it for sake of their being seemingly more in touch with the common man.

    The primary and RBC meeting changed everything. I was sickened and disgusted. Never have I been more disappointed in the political process in our country than that day.

    I will not forget. Too many of my own forebears literally hung, were beaten, and were harassed for the “one man one vote” principle to have it mocked in a faux rules committee meeting with a foreordained verdict reminiscent of Stalinesque show trials.

    I could stomach (barely) the constant false cries of r@cism. I could by squinting really hard and sticking my fingers in my ears pretend the rampant misogyny wasn’t there. But I could not, and cannot, and shall not ever condone the theft of democracy. It is the founding principle of our nation and it must be defended at all cost.

    It was far longer than fourscore and seven years ago that our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. However long it was however, we must never allow government of the people, by the people, and for the people to perish from the earth.

    Happy Easter! Christ is Risen.

  51. ok… I’m in moderation.

    Pleeeeeease release me, let me gooo…

  52. Sorry i posted before I read all the comments.
    I was so thrilled and happy for Captain Phillips and his family I wanted to share.



  53. New Thread:

    Got something up while daughter is studying for Philosophy test!

  54. Once you let them get away with rigging things, there was no further reason for them to pay attention to you. You missed your accountability moment. You, the voter, are now superfluous.

    Exactly. They were fine with us getting da boot., even celebratory, but they are now shocked! shocked ! to find Barry’s boot print on thier own back sides.

    Also it’s hilarious those who are rightly still angry about the stealing of the vote in 2000, want us to “get over” the theft of 2008. lol!

  55. That video clip brings back all the feelings I experienced watching it unfold live while blogging and gnashing my teeth, grrrr.

    Obots, “none so blind as those who will not see”, felt that subverting the democratic process was A-OK for their candidate, the no accomplishment, non principled, intellectual lightweight guy.

    For Gawd’s sake, he is not even charismatic, at least Reagan could do the benelovent grandfather schtick pretty convincingly and I despised the man.

    Obama merely exudes cold, arrogant emptiness.

    BTW, all you Obots who want to “just get along” now, we watched in horror as you destroyed the Democratic process in “clinching” a candidate, which means you became culpable in the destruction of Democracy itself.

    As RD so eloquently explained, we’re saying the same exact things now that we said months and months ago, as we watched the DNC embrace corruption, destroy the grassroots and openly rob citizens of their votes.

    I, too, am glad I kept my principles and ethics intact, in spite of Obama acolytes tearing me apart on DU to the point I had to leave. It was ugly and destructive.

    Although those who dished out the abuse want it forgotten, those of us on the receiving end have it seared in our memories.

    Personally I’m not in a forgiving mood.

    • DU “banned” me when I was just trying to “fact check” Obama. The theft of the nomination was done in broad daylight, but most people were not paying
      attention. Nancy P’s knickers were in a knot because she was afraid at the Convention that she
      didn’t have to votes to push her “gift from God” in on the first vote. The difference was 17 delegates–or however many he had been awarded by the RBC. Obama was in the midst of another slump–he can’t always be on tele-prompter.

      Even if Obama had had any record, or ever been a public servant while in
      office (so far I haven’t been able to find any evidence that he served other than those who could feather his bed), his lack of integrity and leadership qualities as evidenced in the primary and convention would have made him
      unacceptable to me. Let me add, that it is great we have our first non all-white male president, although even better had he been qualified.

      • I’ve gotten to the point of congratulating those who were banned for daring to question teh Awesome’s credentials and political background.

        So Congratuations and Bravo, well done!

        A comparison of Sen. Clinton’s and Sen. Obama’s voting records gives overwhelming evidence to which candidate “walks the walk”.

        Some brave soul posted this on DU during the primaries, and I grabbed the link.

        I still have to chuckle (a little sadly) at the indignant responses in that thread, all explaining how Obama’s votes against everything DUers held dear were part of a NEW and HOPEFUL and CHANGEY way of doing things.

        Yeah, right, it’s an awesome strategy, give the other side everything it wants. :rollseyes:

        As I said, none so blind.


  56. I’m in moderation, wonder what did it?

  57. Has anyone figured out when Axelrod knew about Edwards’ affair? Before
    West Virginia, but probably known when Michigan was an issue. Edwards’ siding with Obama to go after Hillary would have been another good chess move
    for Axelrod.

    • A man having an affair is the worst keep secret there is.

      Everyone around him (including his wife) know about it as soon as he starts plotting.

    • I don’t know when Axelrod found out about the affair, but the only reason I can think of why John Edwards quit before Super Tuesday is because someone informed him that if he didn’t quit, the affair would be revealed.

  58. Great post Riverdaughter. Seeing that Harold Ickes speech makes me so angry again.

    I was out to dinner in D.C. that night with some Obot friends, one of whom started laughing about the RBC and me being a Clinton supporter. He did not see what was wrong with the decision. It totally astounded me, and I haven’t been able to talk to him much since.

  59. This thread is probably over but I think I will add this comment and invite anyone to respond who has any sympathy or empathy. I had a terrible day today and I am not really sure why. The weather here is beautiful, perfect, I was out for a hike in the state park, it too was just about perfect and very few visitors for Easter Sunday. I was thrilled when Capt. Phillips was rescued. But overall I just feel terrible, lonely, depressed and defeated. I think what kicked this off was a posting over at NQ by Larry Johnson giving BO credit for handling this situation with Phillips right—staying out of the foeground, giving the presidential authorizations needed, letting the professionals do their work. But I was not buying it. I found myself almost raging against the idea of giving O credit for doing anything right. I saw this as our military people doing right what they needed to do and I see no reason to give O credit for doing the basic job of the president.

    Now I wonder a little about myself. I don’t want to be this angry person who finds fault with anything and everything and can not see the good of my enemies, yet, I really can’t get over it—I refuse to give him any credit. Have I lost it?

    • Don’t beat yourself up, Larry’s just trying to be provocative. B.O. didn’t screw up, he stayed out of the way. Yay? Props to the captain and the sharpshooters, but, I don’t see where any diplomacy or anything was involved. I visit NQ sometimes, look around and leave most of the time. I was affected the same way as you, so I just left before I got pissed.

    • Hi Jangles. I read Larry’s post, and made your exact comment. It’s ridiculous that the zero-experienced president, who was surrounded by military experts giving him their informed opinions, should get credit for saying, “ok.” What else was he supposed to say? Larry does this sometimes, to appear “fair” I think. I’m not buying it. My response: when he does something unpopular that requires REAL political courage, then I’ll consider giving him credit. The reason I have never grown to respect or trust him is because he always does the politically expedient thing, and lies about it if necessary (usually). I was not initially negative about him, but he repeatedly revealed his lack of principles and character. So now that the NAVY SEALS performed like heroes on the instructions of their military superiors, it’s to BO’s credit? Not buyin’ it.

  60. “The Generic @$$holes” would be a great name for a rock band. :mrgreen:

  61. New post, if anyone is interested

  62. The thought about May 31(and I was outside the Hotel on the sidewalk) that makes me feel a little bit better is that those who participated in and agreed with what happened(outright cheating and fraud) approve because they are cheaters themselves. Not so deep down you can find a dishonest and cheating person quite easily several times a day.This is depressing but it is true. Lots of people I have argued with over this responded with ” It’s not a real vote because the primary is run by an unofficial organization (the DNC). Many people think that what they did on May 31 was perfectly OK. They attach no importance to their vote and I think it relates back to the 2000 election and the 2004 election. The DNC let the GOP get away with it then so they could use the same tactics in 2008. Follow the money(Soros, hedge funds, and others). They made it possible and have lost no real money during this financial crisis. Does that tell you they were prepared for it in advance and executed the plan on September 17 just for insurance that the Dem would get elected if the economy sank. Check them out they have not lost money during this time and the short selling was the trigger that made it happen. Obama is under their control and the taxpayer is paying. All this becuse the DNC copied the GOP tactics and stole the election. No more Democratic party for me. I may never vote again.

  63. RD — Haven’t finished reading your piece when this quote knocked me over the head as the MAIN reason we are still *angry* over the primaries and the election in general …

    “You missed your accountability moment.”

    You hit it dead on the head with this one remark. No matter what we do now, how much we petition our Democratic leaders, or stage protests, or whatever the standard way of holding our politicians accountable, the MOMENT is over. The fact that the Obamacrats STILL don’t get this is baffling to me!

  64. the DNC cheated and lied because they are a bunch of cowards.

    [Comment edited by administrator]

    • Black radio could be astroturfed, too, and was.

    • Suzie,

      I’m going to have to edit your comment. If Cinie hadn’t already replied I would delete altogether.

  65. I want an apology, but it’s not all I want.

    I want the women I used to call friends who voted for that pissant to admit why. “I voted for him and hated the living hell out of Hillary Clinton because I hate my mother, consider other women to be competition in a looks-based contest, and can’t handle another woman succeeding before I do psychologically.”

    “I made excuses for Barky and nitpicked the hell out of Clinton because of my singleminded drive to find a husband, which has trained me to cut men impossible amounts of slack. Due to my desperate thirst to hold someone somewhere accountable for their actions, I savaged Clinton for minor gaffes that I forgave when Barky did the same thing.”

    “I joined in when Sarah Palin was destroyed over the whole abortion thing and looked the other way when anti-choice male Democrats ran for office because I’m afraid to hold men accountable anywhere for their behavior, because if I set my standards for males too high I’ll never get laid.”

    I want that, too. An apology is only the start.

  66. Whoops, forgot one: “Despite fifteen years of endless whining about how the sexism at work caused my male supervisors to promote unqualified men ahead of me and tell me that people found me intimidating, which demolished my supposedly-important-to-me career, I voted for Barky because I had ‘nothing in common’ with Hillary Clinton.”

    Fifteen YEARS of WHINING I got subjected to by THAT ex-friend. Fifteen years of it.

  67. The only reasonable lemonade to be made out of this lemon is the ratification of the ERA. Iron my shirt and the C**T tee shirts should be hate crimes.

  68. Riverdaughter, “progressive talk radio” can go to hell.
    If Ed Schultz wants to know why his audience fell from 4.5 million to 3 million and has stalled there, it is because we Hillary supporters stopped listening after hearing Ed’s tirades (based upon right wing smears) against Hillary. Stephanie Miller lost her audience too. Randi Rhodes lost her show and Sam Sedar is no where to be heard from.
    The only decent one is Thom Hartmann. He said he just wanted a Democrat this time and refrained from assualting Hillary.
    So when Ms. Miller and Mr. Schultz spoke of the “deadenders” little did they know that they would be in that position sooner than later.

  69. @fembots: I agree – that was the moment and they missed it. They can’t unring that bell. That they don’t get that? Easy! They were never analytical, reflective, thinking voters (at least in this election cycle) to begin with.

    They allowed themselves to be swept up in the emotional tornado that was the Obama movement for “hope and change” with its paltry vocabulary of those two words plus “racist,” “bitter,” and a short, redundant string of obscenities alluding to female dispositions and body parts, and most repetitively an anglo-saxon term for intercourse that, as it happens, can function as just about any part of speech.

    You can’t expect much from them.

    (Hint, Obots! An effective method of expanding your lexicon and becoming a more informed voter and citizen:

    • Still-for-Hill

      Great to meet you here at Riverdaughter’s Corner!…wondering whatever happened to Madam Secretary blog at the Foreign Post….



  70. In the last couple days I seen or read a couple things about the economy – 1) economist with Bill Moyers who helped with savings and loan crisis in 90s – his thesis: regulation not enough; you need people with ethics and morals in charge – 2) written piece about how George Orwell predicted crash of capitalism as leaders became amoral, not concerned about hereafter, etc. – meaning no moral compass to avoid fraud, unethical behavior, etc.

    These may have caused the damaging (criminal) decisions by economic leaders – Madoff, bankers, etc. It’s the same thing at work with the Obots — anything was/is justified as a means to the end — no scruples, no ethics, etc. and no shame.

    Respect for law and the Constitution are important, but an underlying sense of responsibility for ethical behavior must also exist. All those things we should have learned in kindergarten – play fair, don’t lie, etc.,

  71. Great post….sort of Remembrance of Things Past that will never be past us it seems.

    Lest we forget….thanks Riverdaughter!

    And may the Obama bow to kiss Abdullha’s hand at the G20 be a reminder of the Prez Schmoozer’s utter contempt for protocol and dignity. Why did the “Democrats” allow this anorexic resume to cheat its way to the White House….An act of subconscious hara-kiri perhaps….

    Periodically, Barack will feel down and start launching attacks against pirates to boost his appeal….

  72. May 31/08….The Day Democracy Died…

    drove my chevy to the levee but it was dry…or something to that effect. Nice to see this on youtube with appropriate music, eh? And perhaps a clip of Harold Ickes…

    We shall not Forget…
    the Day Democracy Died and Bo’s Prezidency was born! ugh

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