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msnbc.com video: N.Y. Senate announcement

For those of you who might have missed it, here is Gov. Paterson’s announcement that Kirsten Gillibrand is appointed to fill Hillary Clinton’s Senate seat. She thanks a lot of people including Clinton and her Grandmother Polly Noonan, a political organizer from Albany. Nice job, Kirsten!

This is what a feminist looks like

This is what a feminist looks like

Vodpod videos no longer available.

198 Responses

  1. What a great moment for women.

  2. having trouble getting the vid to play

  3. it is from MSNBC you can’t count on it to work.

  4. afrocity — love your new avatar! My cat Buddha looks a lot like your cat except mine has blue eyes — your’s looks like she has yellow eyes from the picture.

  5. afrocity, on January 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm Said:

    it is from MSNBC you can’t count on it to work.

    LOL! Even went to the vodpod page and it doesn’t work.

    Remind me not to buy GE appliances.

  6. RD — LOL — I initially missed your caption under Paterson “this is what a feminist looks like” — thank you for that — I’m sending a screen shot to Ms.

  7. Angie, did you catch Afrocity’s comment the other night about Patterson?

  8. Her speech was great. She is a real PUMA, thanked all of her mentors and gave an extra shout out to Hillary and all of the women that have mentored her. Paterson and Schumer made a point of mentioning that it was important that she is a woman. A mother of an infant, that doesn’t happen in the Senate very often.

  9. Before someone corrects me, I do know that Hutchinson adopted two kids that are young. I just like to see it.

  10. OT

    Here’s the list of yays and nays on the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. All 36 nays were from Republicans:


  11. Apparently, all the NYC elitists are furious because she’s too independent, listening to her “bitter, gun-toting, red-neck” constituents in Upstate NY. She’s got a little bit of Palin in her. It will be interesting to see how she adapts to representing the entire state. I’m also interested in her gay rights record. She has a relatively low rating for a Dem–80 out of 100 by the Human Rights Campaign, but again, that might be District strategy for conservative Upstate. We have a mutual friend who is one of her closest advisers. I’m going to pose these questions to her. Any other suggestions, I can pass along and get direct answers.

    A strong, independent, passionate woman activist–go figure. Good for Paterson. I wonder how the Cuomo’s played into this too, because she used to work for him and thanked him today. She’ll need our support for the special election next year.

  12. Hutchinson R-Texas voted for the bill as well as the two Alaskan senators, including the Republicans.

  13. Why would the Republicans be against this bill. I did notice that of the Senators in my state Tx- the male said nay and the female (kay hutchinson) said yea.
    I am going to email the male office and ask why he didnt vote yes. The ass

  14. I can’t view the video either.

    Why am I the only person who can’t see afrocity’s new avatar? Or is everybody just messing with me? 😉

  15. The video doesn’t work for me, but I can see beautiful afrocity and her beautiful kitty.

  16. ALL the women voted for equal pay. Hutchison did offer an amendment initially but still voted for it even after the amendment failed. Good for her. I think I am going to sen a thank you to the 4 female GOP members, Collins, Snowe, Hutchison, and Murkowski. It isn’t easy to buck party position.

  17. janicen Myiq told me that you have to clean out your cache.

  18. Did you notice that 4 of the 5 republicans that did vote YAY were women?

  19. Sorry … YEA not YAY!


  20. a woman with intelligence and experience.
    Hooray and may many more join her..



  21. There are 5? I thought only 4.

  22. CWaltz … like minds 🙂

    I’m glad that Arlen Spector (from my state) voted yea. Saves me writing him a stinky letter.

  23. britgirl — yep, I noticed — and those 4 Republican women are ALL of the female Republican Senators. Not ONE woman Senator voted “nay” on the bill regardless of party. That is why (as gxm pointed out in the thread below) that we need to support/promote more women in government regardless of party.

  24. Fredster — still here? No, I don’t recall afrocity’s comment re: Paterson.

  25. Well jeeze Cwaltz, we Republican women do care about womens rights . Come on guys is this why no one ever mentions Margaret Thatcher when they mention great women or feminism? Because she was a conservative ???

  26. Afrocity … love the new avatar.

    Margaret Thatcher did not have ANY women in her cabinet. And she took my free milk away in elementary school. Margaret Thatcher, milk snatcher as she was known.

  27. Arlen and Snowe supported the initial bill a year ago. I’m not surprised they voted yea. Collins, Murkowski, and Hutchison are new to the cause. I’m pleased to see them onboard. Next up out to be the ERA. Does anyone have a list of the states that we should focus attention to?

  28. afrocity, on January 23rd, 2009 at 2:49 pm Said:
    janicen Myiq told me that you have to clean out your cache.

    LMAO! My “cache” is none of myiq’s business!

    Seriously, I can’t imagine why I would have to clean out my cache to see your avatar. I don’t thing everyone else has.

  29. Afro,

    I am very proud of many of the conservative women and how they stood up for Palin.
    However, I was apalled at the number of my female counterparts in the GOP party being unaware that Bush sought to make BCPs an abortifactant.

  30. * …I don’t “think”, not “thing”.

  31. CWaltz – I am also appalled at the republican party’s attack on the Clintons for the past 16 years …

  32. Surprise, surprise… Now the NYT has a bio/article on Kirsten Gillibrand: (sorry, I don’t know how to make it a live link)


  33. Oops… I guess you do!

  34. janicen- I cleaned out my cache, just like myiq ordered, and now I can see the kitty kat. Not only that, but now i feel all clean and fresh!!

  35. Unratified states are Florida, Georgia, Illinois (who’d a thunk it?) and Missouri:


  36. Clinton supported a woman’s “right” to choose So all was forgiven after what he did to HRC. And the women that the MSM marginalized because of his behavior. So they were necessary sacrifices on the road to equality for women?

    Feminism has been reduced to birth control and abortion.

    The fight for women’s rights: Conservative Women need not apply

  37. Did it have to be MSNBC?! And I’m having a hard time playing it anyway.

  38. Gotta laugh at the duplicitous NYTimes. Now gillibrand is apparently the next best thing next to sliced bread and caroline kennedy is barely mentioned. They must have gotten enormous kick-back from their attempts to coronate the princess and their subsequent trashing of paterson for not picking her (not fooling anyone with their claims that paterson handled the whole thing inadequately, just sour grapes on their part).


    I especially enjoyed how they noted positively how gilllibrand got a standing ovation for working right up until the day she delivered (by the way nytimes, this isn’t all that unusual. I did it for my babies as well, actually was making calls on the delivery table for the first! You may not know it but women work harder, better and with a lot less whining than their opposite gender ). Hey, remember all the trash talk aimed at palin for traveling while pregnant? Oh how the worm has turned.
    Well tough toenails on the nytimes. I know I will never forget your trashing of Clinton and Palin, your elevating to sainthood of kennedy over everyone else for no apparent reason (hmmmm?).
    Gillibrand is a great pick, shows paterson has cajones, she works hard, and gets things done. She doesn’t have to answer to mr. obama, teddy or the nytimes. Gillbrand says “bite me nytimes!”

  39. LOL, Honora!

  40. MK5112 Tx> The male Senator would be John Cornyn, right? The guy who stopped Hillary getting confirmed as SoS by unanimous consent.

    britgirls> You should write Specter a positive note instead of the stinky one!

  41. Afrocity, that’s why I love the New Agenda. They’re not even touching the whole choice thing (as they say, there are enough organizations out there focusing on it).

    I said that I was a fan of Sarah Palin on my Facebook page and when my friends go loopy over it I forward them to the New Agenda.

    And today I’m really proud of all the female Republican Senators for putting women first.


  43. DYB

    I should thank him and tell him to live long and prosper. Tingle leg Tweety was after his Senate seat!!! AAaaack!

  44. Not true afro

    I see it as more problematic that there aren’t more female conservative women. Only 4 of the 17 women are conservatives.

    I’m sorry if you didn’t like my statement but it is true. I walked into the GOP headquarters and not a single female was aware of Bush’s actions. Like it or not family planning ispart of womens issues. Having the right ot make reproductive choice heavily effects the ability to carry out long term planning since unlike men we don’t have the luxury of walking away or claiming “innocence” when it comes to maternity.

  45. Cwaltz,

    I walked into the DNC headquarters in Chicago and not a single female or African American was aware of Obama’s actions.

  46. Not a single person was aware of what action Afro?

  47. Speaking of which

    Now that Liddy Dole is gone we need a brave soul to offer this up again.


    Being able to continue with a college education can make or break a parent. It’s a darn shame it didn’t have more than 2 co sponsors.

  48. Obama’s run-in with that reporter – is this getting any play on the MSM? To me it sounds like a remarkable moment. He really got into this journalist’s face. Form the descriptions I’m reading he put his hand on this guy’s shoulder and started telling him off? Seriously? Is this how the President of the United States behaves??!! Is this what Obama thinks he’s going to do to Putin??!!

    The vast majority of the Oborgs will never blame him for anything that happens. They will spend the next 4 to 8 years blaming Bush. Maybe possibly Obama’s team, but not Obama. They never paid attention to his abilities, accomplishments, policies. They only saw the color of his skin and heard the words “change” and “hope.” If you ask the majority of them why they preferred his ideas on the economy to Hillary’s – or even McCain’s – they will not be able to tell you. This goes for virtually any topic. They’ll just spew on about “change” and “hope.” They will not be paying any attention to what Obama does and the results he achieves. If women and LGBTs are not throwing the shoe at him over Rick Warren and Gene Robinson – they never will.
    So I’m afraid in 4 years we are all going to be stuck with a very painful choice: Obama for President, or ??? Republican for President. It may be Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush, or some person we haven’t met yet. I’m already bracing myself for the decision…

  49. Afrocity said _ I walked into the DNC headquarters in Chicago and not a singel female or African American was aware of Obama’s actions.

    That’s because all the PUMA’s had been kicked out – my husband is still taking flack because his wife got letters in the paper against O’s so-called Democratic policies. They are still citing me as the reason he should step down from his Chair position.

    McCain said he voted Nay because he fears unnecessary lawsuits – He also thinks Sen Kyle would be a great nominee for Republican front-runner in 2012 – he’s back in the fold.

  50. 6 million woman a year get pregnant. It’d be absurd to pretend that choice isn’t an issue. Is it the only issue, not by a long shot. However to pretend it isn’t an issue is disingenuous. That said, choosing to have a child is just as much of a valid choice as NOT choosing to have a child.

  51. Pick one, any one. The fact that Obama is misogynist and pays his female staffers less. That Obama refers to women as “sweety”. That obama has don’t virtually jack sh@t for AA’s Obama has mowed down ONLY women in his pursuit for political gain. Alice Palmer, Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin. But what da hell? He is pro choice. That is all that matters, right?

  52. I’d like specifics on which actions. My biggest problem with the DNC was not that they were unaware but that they condoned the actions of Obama.

    There is a difference between ingnorance and apathy. One can be cured with education, the other cannot.

  53. I don’t want to pick one. I prefer arguing specifics to generalities.

  54. Allowing choice matters to me. I won;t apologize for it.

  55. Again afro

    Condoning something and being ignorant on an issue are two different animals.

  56. Well Cwaltz, maybe Obama is a blessing in disguise for you.

    This morning the announcement came from officials in Washington that Obama plans to sign an executive order that terminates the ban on American taxpayer funded abortions worldwide.

    The ban, known as the “Mexico City Policy,” was established by President Reagan in 1984 in order to prevent organizations such as the U.S. Agency for International Development from using taxpayer dollars to promote abortion as a “family planning” option in other countries. President Clinton revoked Reagan’s ban in 1993, while President Bush reinstated the ban in 2001. Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, will now have oversight over the distribution of American foreign aid. Some thoughts come to mind regarding this latest stroke of the pen by our new president.

  57. I’m not convinced Obama is pro-choice.

  58. don’t worry… I’m here afrocity… just lurking as I try (in vain) to get some work done.

  59. Been waiting all day for him to sign.

  60. I would have preferred he allowed access to affordable birth control. That said, I think it is great that a service member who is raped overseas will have access to those services if needed. It was absurd to make female service mebers take leave to terminate a pregnancy. It happened though because of the ban.

    My problem with Obama is that he doesn’t respect democracy. He made a mockery

  61. Jmac

    Obama strikes me as very patriarchial. His comments on abortion were “off” the mark to me and left out swaths of the population, not everyone has a husband or a pastor, nor should they be required to have one before making a decision about their body.

  62. Today was the first time I heard Patterson speak, and I do believe I would prefer him to barfy. You just feel a comfort when he speaks. Very well spoken.

  63. Cwaltz, you don’t like generalities and I yet have been on this blog so many time while you have downgraded conservatives to being evil or Rethugs. Have I ever said anything mean about DEMS on this blog? I used to be one ya know. Until I took a good hard look at the DNC and saw groups of constituents enslaved by labels such as pro choice, gay activists, environmentalist, youth voters, African Americans, and other hyphenated ethnicity. Hey guess what I am pro choice too but I am not going to let that issue control who i vote for to the point that I am voting for some empty suit ass that used women like a dirty Today sponge to get to POTUS.

  64. I’m a Democrat. My problem with Obama is I don’t believe he’s a Dem on issues that are important to me. I don’t want him to change the democratic party.

    Afrocity is a Republican. She believes abortion should be decided by the states. There’s nothing feminist about a poor women in Utah not being able to get a safe abortion while a rich woman in Utah can fly to NY to get one.

  65. aininnj
    I too enjoy NYT having to do the 180. Do you think MoDo will write anything on the subject?
    Also, I don’t see Afrocity’s new avatar either – and I tried on 2 different browsers!

  66. eeek… controversy over abortion…. as the resident evangelical male, I think it best if I keep my head low so I don’t get hit by the flying chinaware

  67. I used to be a Republican until they embraced the south with their racism and adopted Gods, gays and guns as their slogan and decided that the wealthy were more important than the working class.

  68. afrocity — that reports on the Mexico City Policy have been going back & forth — I think Obama is trying to vote present on it. However, you are right on this (to an extent):

    Feminism has been reduced to birth control and abortion.

    The fight for women’s rights: Conservative Women need not apply

    That is what feminism has been reduced to because of organizations like NOW, NARAL & “leftie” woman who think the only valid “choice” is one of which they approve (cough)Trig Palin(cough).

    However, that is NOT what it should be reduced to and, sorry CWaltz — it isn’t the most important and/or only decision — the most important thing for women is pay & education — the ability to earn more & the ability to access better work & educational opportunities WILL REDUCE THE NUMBER OF UNWANTED PREGNANCIES & will help women leave/avoid abusive situations.

  69. I wrote above that I was concerned about Gillibrand’s stand on gay rights. In the NY Times article it says this, and I’m even more thrilled!! She allows hunters their guns, voted AGAINST the bail out twice (because of lack of accountability, which was prescient and principled), and is FOR gay marriage. I love this woman.

    Alan Van Capelle, the executive director of the Empire State Pride Agenda, a gay rights group, said that he spoke by phone with Representative Gillibrand on Thursday night and that she spoke in favor of same-sex marriage. This would make her the first United States senator from New York to endorse gay marriage; Charles E. Schumer, the state’s senior senator, opposes it.

    “She spoke eloquently about the 1,324 rights that are denied to same-sex couples in New York,” Mr. Van Capelle said.

    An aide to Ms. Gillibrand confirmed that she supports gay marriage.

  70. Jmac — you are misstating afrocity’s a position re: she thinks abortions should be decided by the states. Furthermore, I think it is bullsh!t that we on this board should be fighting about who is and ins’t a feminist. I resent very much your post to afrocity because it sounds very holier than though, imo. The fact is that afrocity is a very strong advocate for women’s issues & has done a lot for the advancement of women’s rights in her career.

  71. (laughing)

    So now I am the enemy and not a feminist.


    So now my vagina and my melanin count is taken away.

  73. my 2 cents: Afrocity I support you in your independence. This year taught me that each person is entitled to choose based on their own perspective on policies and their own conscience. A real democracy is not threatened by respectful debate and a system of checks and balances assured by that debate.

  74. Find me a single time that I called republicans evil, I dare you. you won’t be able to because the statement doesn’t exist.

    Choice matters to me. Again, I am not going to apologize for that. I live in a state that fails reproductive health. My daughter would not get a choice if we allowed this state decide. I prefer that the person who has to live with the consequences of a pregnancy and the repercussions of it get to choose, not a bunch of people who will not deal with the consequences. it might be different if I wasn’t more than aware that a prenancy strains the body and the consequences are longer and broader than the 10 months the child is in utero. That said, I am aware.So it matters.

  75. I never implied she wasn’t a feminist. I said it was appalling that more Republican women were not outraged, or even aware as birth control being classified as an abortifactant.

  76. Guess what – Clinton hater Anne Kornblut of the Washington Post is now attributing Princess Caroline’s downfall to “sexism” ! Like Hillary and Palin before her, poor Caroline is facing heavy odds trying to shatter the glass ceiling , so she tells us.

    Well, cry me a river Anne. You’ve got some bloody nerve. Just like your Obot pal Donna B.

  77. Why should a state have to decide what a woman does with her body?

  78. Afrocity is a Republican. She believes abortion should be decided by the states. There’s nothing feminist about a poor women in Utah not being able to get a safe abortion while a rich woman in Utah can fly to NY to get one.

    Jmac: you can make your points about the pros and cons of this stance, but you don’t have to generalize about ALL Republicans. Haven’t we learned anything this year about judging entire groups of people (eg: ALL Dems are noble and care about equal representation)?

  79. Jmac — that’s another thing — the south is no more r@cist than the north & I don’t appreciate your generalities about the “r@cist” sought either. I knew a girl in college in TX who was from Boston she who always referred to the r@cist south just like you did. She came to New Orleans with me for Mardi Gras & was shocked & uncomfortable at the amount of black people there! She actually thought my parents must be living in a “bad part of town” because they had black neighbors (both of whom were doctors, btw). I went to visit her in Boston (suburb) and there was NOT ONE BLACK PERSON within a 50 mile radius of her house. So, don’t talk to me about the r@cist south. I have never once had a conversation with a black person & thought “Wow, look at me! I’m talking to a black person.” I know black doctors, lawyers, professors & judges — I consider them the “norm” not something “special.” I bet most people in the “non-r@cist” North cannot say the same.

  80. How can these idiots attribute Kennedy’s “downfall” to sexism when HE CHOSE A WOMAN?! Such sloppy thinkers.

  81. Find me the statement where I said it was the MOST IMPORTANT OR ONLY. I didn’t. As a matter of fact……

    Here is my EXACT statement on the subject

    6 million woman a year get pregnant. It’d be absurd to pretend that choice isn’t an issue. Is it the only issue, not by a long shot. However to pretend it isn’t an issue is disingenuous. That said, choosing to have a child is just as much of a valid choice as NOT choosing to have a child.

    I won’t be bullied into pretending it isn’t an issue. FUHGETABOUTHAT.

  82. Thanks Angie but I was not asked about my career because I am being judged.

    Edge of forver , you aint missing nothing by not seeing my avatar because no matter what I say it will always be the back end of an elephants ass as far as some here are concerned.

  83. ““She spoke eloquently about the 1,324 rights that are denied to same-sex couples in New York,” Mr. Van Capelle said.”
    Good for her. She has highlighted the main reason why “civil unions” aren’t even close to marriage and it’s the 1,324 laws and rights +- that state have on the books related to marriage.

  84. One thing I learned with certainly this election cycle is that I don’t want to be called a Democrat or a Republican. As institutions they are both rotten from the inside. It doesn’t matter whether you walk into the RNC or the DNC – you’ll be surrounded by partisans who really don’t give a crap about anything.

    I agree with afrocity and angie that sadly the women’s rights organizations – and the Democratic party this election cycle – defined feminism as “abortion rights” and that’s it. Democrats talked a lot about Roe v. Wade going away if McCain and that evil Palin were elected. That was the one and only women’s issue they talked about. And choice, as angie says, was only the choice they approved of. If you chose to not have an abortion – you were not a feminist. Isn’t that what women like Robin Morgan said? The weird thing is that if you take away that third rail called abortion – conservative and liberal women could join forces to address all those other things angie mentions. All those liberal women like Robin Morgan failed to see anything in Sarah Palin except the fact that she’s pro-choice. All they ever needed to know about Sarah Palin was summarized by “pro-life.”

  85. Cwaltz — choice matters to me too, but I think if you read what I posted before it is not the end all be all to me to the extent that I am not going to alienate a smart, remarkable woman like afrocity (or other republican woman like her) over it. Better educational opportunities & equal pay will result in less unwanted pregnancies. Those two issues are issue number 1 for ALL WOMEN regardless of where they stand on choice.

  86. Angie – you CANNOT be a strong advocate for women’s issues when you think the abortion issue should be thrown to the states. Afrocity has clearly stated she thinks the states should decide. NO, THEY SHOULD NOT.

    She is here because of her hatred for Obama. I am here because I’m a democrat who wants to see the democratic party keep it’s values – and that includes safe abortions for everyone.

  87. DYB — have I told you lately that I love you? 🙂

  88. We can all fight mightily for our beliefs based on information and proposed solutions, but because we all are passionate, it’s easy for it to become personal attacks. Careful fiery PUMAs, we’re all family here.

  89. Hello all. Afrocity, love your new avatar. You are throwing off a little Billie Holiday, with the flower (or light) in your hair, at least on the small Berry screen. That is all. (snap salutes)

  90. Did I not say this was going to be a problem a couple of weeks ago? Because many of us were Dems at one point or another, we tend to generalize Repubs because as far as we knew they were the villains. That isn’t the case anymore. At least not solely. We have to stop the Dems=good or better, Reps=bad or worse thing. It’s bullshit. Really.

  91. as Phoebe Buffay would say-“STOP THE MADNESS!”

    There aren’t many anti-privacy commenters here -at least they know enough to STFU- but when there is a persistent one they usually get sent over to PUMAPAC and Darragh takes care of it…

    Not all *conservative* women oppose reproductive privacy. Many are pro-choice.


    March with them at the next Republican National Convention.
    And remember to fight nice, we are all on the same side.

  92. Jmac: is the abortion issue the ONLY women’s rights issue? You’re sounding very self-righteous.

  93. Well, I guess all the misogynistic, anti-feminist wingnuts are out now, what with Donna and Ann claiming sexism as the downfall of CK.

    Ugh! I can’t tell you much I hate women who work so hard to give other women a bad name.

  94. DYB, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm Said:

    Nodding…what DYB said. Now I have to get back to work where I’m surreptitiously lurking.

  95. Ooh, the next-to-last sentence should have read “All those liberal women like Robin Morgan failed to see anything in Sarah Palin except the fact that she’s NOT pro-choice.”

  96. The one day delay in canceling the Mexico City rule was feted by the media – they have to get their kicks somehow

  97. 2008, I lost my blackness and my womanhood. Let me flip through my Coach wallet and take those membership cards out and through them in the trash.

    I thought this was a place where I had friends and could come to express my views. I guess now that the election is over there is no longer a need for Repubs like me who agreed with PUMA.

  98. (peeking in) I love a passionate argument but I just want everyone to know that there IS a moderator in the house and I will call time-out if necessary.

    And in case it’s necessary, my email is katiebird@gmail.com

    Please be careful about how you phrase your comments, I don’t want anyone leaving over this.

    xxoo ♥

  99. angienc2, on January 23rd, 2009 at 3:52 pm Said:
    Feminism has been reduced to birth control and abortion.

    In that same tune — I was reading a New Yorker article on breastfeeding, really a fluff piece putting down moms who have to pump & save breast milk while working, instead of just having family life & their kids with them. (Yes, having daycare at workplaces and more maternal/paternal (paid) leave is something many other countries do and what the US needs. )

    But this line, complaining “When did ‘women’s rights’ turn into ‘the right to work’?” really p-o’d me. Sounds just like someone who never actually had to work.

    I dropped the New Yorker shortly into primary season ’cause I couldn’t stand their CDS and Obamlaudation. My Obot spouse subscribed at his work and sometimes brings an issue back. I don’t think I’ll bother reading it again.

  100. Afrocity, you are beloved here.

  101. Jmac — you are misstating afrocity’s position & are seriously confused about how medical services are regulated — they are regulated by the states. The states cannot enact legislation that goes against Roe v. Wade (i.e., makes abortion illegal) & afrocity knows that. However, other procedural issues about abortion (such as parental notifications, etc) are not covered by Roe v. Wade & the states can & do make legislation about those not the federal government. Let me make that clear: STATES, RIGHT NOW, ARE REGULATING THE ABORTIONS THAT OCCUR WITHIN THEIR BORDERS. So what, prey tell, is it exactly that you do not think it is about the administrations and procedures of abortions that are NOT regulated by the states — because every last one is regulated by the states. Are you actually advocating some monolith Federal regulation of medical procedures in all 50 states? Because that is not only unworkable, that is pretty much unconstitutional as well.

  102. “She is here because of her hatred for Obama. I am here because I’m a democrat who wants to see the democratic party keep it’s values – and that includes safe abortions for everyone.”

    I didn’t realize that PUMA and The Confluence were for Democrats only.

  103. katiebird, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pm Said:
    Afrocity, you are beloved here.

    yeah, what she said. and that’s a Marni wallet, you can’t fool me.

  104. fif, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:02 pm Said:

    Jmac: you can make your points about the pros and cons of this stance, but you don’t have to generalize about ALL Republicans. Haven’t we learned anything this year about judging entire groups of people (eg: ALL Dems are noble and care about equal representation)?

    Thank you fif — apparently not though.

  105. “as Phoebe Buffay would say-”STOP THE MADNESS!”

    Hahahahaa! I love Phoebe and that’s one of the funniest moments in all of “Friends.”

  106. I am not here because I hate Obama. If that were the case I could hang out on Red State or any other backwoods fringe right wing blog.

  107. I am not going to pretend that the issue doesn’t exist angie. I respect that people like Sarah Palin(who I supported by the way) disagree with me but I will be darned if I am going to relinquish my position. It matters.

    Having access to reproductive choice matters, considering the pill an abortion matters, There are alot of people who will be left out in the cold if we made this a states rights thing. I am not willing to push them out into the cold to placate people.

    I do believe I have been and will continue to be respectful. not once have I, nor will I call Republicans evil. I live in a red portion of the state and the idea that I would ridicule my neighbors because I disagree with is absurd. I made a statement that was based on fact. If Afrocity was offended by that I am sorry but I can’t twist the facts to make them different than what they are.

  108. Maybe a good ground rule would be to use actual quotes rather than paraphrasing what other commenters have said.

  109. Jmac,

    As if the Confluence is only a blog for Obama haters.
    I thought more of it than that.

  110. PumaInSeattle, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pm Said:

    OMFG! I’m glad I canceled my subscription back during the primaries too.

    And yes, you are right — don’t bother reading it any more.

  111. Or we could just Get Back on Topic……

  112. @angienc – thanks for your comments about the so called “r@cist” south. I’ve heard more of that claptrap that I care to repeat (I’m resisting the temptation to call people d@mnyankees)

    As for republicanism / abortion rights (or any thing else) I think the overarching question is the nature of our system. We are a federal republic; so everything should not be decided in DC. The further removed a government is from the people, the less responsive to their concerns and the more bloated and corrupt (i.e. the federal government) That is the essence of the “small government” conservative position. Thus abortion (as many other things) is generally viewed as something to be dealt with by the states.

    You may agree or disagree with that position or about abortion rights, but holding one position or the other doesn’t make one less or more “feminist.”

  113. Let’s keep it real. There has been tension here for the last three weeks. I don’t like it. It makes me feel like I am Kirsten Dunst’s character in “Interview with a Vampire”. That part where she gets separated from Brad Pitt (Angie for me) and they kill her. All because I am outed as a republican

  114. Regency, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:07 pm Said:

    Did I not say this was going to be a problem a couple of weeks ago? Because many of us were Dems at one point or another, we tend to generalize Repubs because as far as we knew they were the villains. That isn’t the case anymore. At least not solely. We have to stop the Dems=good or better, Reps=bad or worse thing. It’s bullshit. Really.
    I have to disagree..because a lot of Dems have been exposed as scum bags, that still doesn’t make the Dems and Repubs the same. Beginning with the Reagan revolution, the Repub. party purged itself of most of it’s moderate politicians and adopted the “Southern strategy”. The Dems are at a similar turning point now with Obama/Axelrod as the Republicans were with Reagan/Rollins/Atwater.

  115. Look, I’m a gay man. Hillary Clinton does not support gay marriage. What the hell am I doing supporting her and on this site? I disagree with her strongly on the issue of gay marriage, but I accept that she’s a big supporter of gay rights except for gay marriage. I do not disown Clinton and do not consider her my enemy because of this one – very important – difference. Can’t one recognize a feminist who is not pro-choice? (And afrocity says she’s pro-choice!)

  116. lol afro, stop that!

  117. DYB – for some reason I thought you were a middle aged white (straight) woman….

    I have no idea why I thought that. Just the musings of my muddled mind I guess.

  118. Afro

    I like you and respect you. I have no problem with your ideology, political or otherwise. Sometimes we are going to have to agree to disagree. I can cope with that.

  119. CWaltz — I didn’t say it doesn’t exist. I’m not saying you have to “apologize” for it mattering to you — it matters to me too — but the fact is that instead of fighting about that issue we CAN and SHOULD work will ALL women to get better educational opportunities & equal pay for women. Because right now, all we are doing is fighting with them about the choice issue and look were that has gotten us for the last 30 years.

    Furthermore, under my plan — which granted, is based on long-term thinking, which I know isn’t very popular, — we all get what we want (or, most of us do anyway) — with better educated better paid women abortion will in fact be safe, legal & rare.

  120. frenly (formerly and usually elderj), on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:24 pm Said:
    DYB – for some reason I thought you were a middle aged white (straight) woman….

    gosh, frenly-you just described ME.
    and you make it sound so BO-RING!

  121. I don’t want to be in a place where I feel like I am walking on ovary shells.

  122. frenly (formerly and usually elderj), on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:20 pm Said:

    see why you won TC sexiest man?

  123. Afrocity and others, this year has really taught me that I’d been small-minded and well, dumb, dumb, dumb to think that Dem=good and Repub=bad.

    I want people judged by their character, their experience, and their actions. Not by their melanin amount, their gender, education, accent, religion, birthplace, bank account, ancestors — & this year I added: not by their political party.

    I want people to have safe communities, reasonable housing prices, good education, family-wage jobs, health care, retirement in reasonable financial security. I want political leaders picked for experience and talent, not connections and gutter pay-for-play. Oh, and 1-person-1-vote. Anyone else who believes about the same, I’ll march with you singing.

    A pox on political party labels.

  124. frenly> I’m only a 31 year old gay male on the outside. On the inside I’m exactly what you thought I was! ;-P

  125. afrocity — get over ya self! We’re all allowed to disagree & not make it the end all be all.

  126. Angie “Furthermore, under my plan”

    Angie sounds like a candidate for POTUS. I would vote for you Angie, DEM, Independent, green party, or Republican

  127. (angry teeth grinding chewing on the end of a Twix bar)

  128. New post if you want to read my latest DRAMA F__K thanks to to the F____ING economy….

  129. afrocity> I’m about to pull out Hagen Dazs.

  130. afrocity — LMAO!! See, you can’t leave us! We need your humor around here!

  131. angienc2, on January 23rd, 2009 at 2:54 pm Said:

    Fredster — still here? No, I don’t recall afrocity’s comment re: Paterson.

    It was being discussed that possibly Patterson kinda suckered C.K. into withdrawing her name from consideration. and Afro said (paraphrase) “Oh my, the blind can lead the blind” talking about CK being a blind idiot not worthy of a Senate seat.

    Afrocity: I have to catch up on this thread, but are you getting fussy again? What’s got you upset?

  132. For me .. getting rid of bush etal – has been magnificent … I have been devastated with him since the repubs stole the election in 2001. From there it just got worse, every year worse. Poor decisions one and all.

    Obama is not nor ever was my choice BUT I am still happy that the repubs are out of power … I hope I will never have to hear this stuff again …

    It’s all on the dems now … it’s will be up to them as to who I vote for in the next election.. sure hope I do not have vote repub. again ..

  133. DYB, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:28 pm Said:

    frenly> I’m only a 31 year old gay male on the outside. On the inside I’m exactly what you thought I was! ;-P

    Hunk or twink? 😉

  134. @catarina — you could never be boring… middle aged straight women are this years little black dress!

    @DYB — I don’t even know how to respond. I literally laughed out loud at your reply. 🙂

    The Confluence is an interesting place. Where else can an conservative evangelical, a Black feminist republican, a gay liberal man, and snarky New Orleanian exiled in NC, a middle aged (straight) white woman, and a assorted group of other mixed nuts get together and laugh? Maybe BO has brought unity after all!

    We are all united under the bus!!

  135. Ang- The equal pay part looks to be locked in. We will probably have to wait and see if we can make up the 22 cents. I’m betting we do.

    As I stated above I’d love to see someone pick up where Liddy Dole left off on the Elizabeth Cady Stanton Act. Supporting young women who choose to continue a pregnacy that are in college would be a great step. I’d also like to see there be a push to fix the fact that birth control costs have increased to crisis levels on campus


    I’d also like to see it mandated that insurance companies cover birth control in the same way they would give a man Cipro that is going abroad or provide children with immunizations.

    I’ve got a veritable wish list of things.

  136. States are the entities that license medical and other health-care providers, their scope of practice, and requirements for continuing practice. For example, “Scope of practice” limits diagnoses I may make, which levels or amounts of medications I may prescribe, and the procedures or services I may perform — even if I have the education and training to do more than defined by my profession’s scope of practice.

    So you can see that state scope of practice regulations are involved in everything from pregnancy termination to how old a teen patient must be before getting care independently (i.e, without parent there) for reproductive concerns, for example.

  137. DYB I don’t believe for a second that Hillary is “against” gay marriage. She had to say that at the time. I don’t think she has a problem w/it at all. Politicians sometimes have to say one thing, and wink, wink on the side the rest of us know they don’t mean it at all. You have to play the game if you’re going to get anywhere. In the 90’s Obama was for gay marriage, until he ran for prez then he was against it. Of course I don’t believe anything HE says. Hillary is SoS now, her successor if FOR gay marriage so things are better us. But we still have a ways to go.

  138. PumaInSeattle, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:27 pm Said:

    Exactly –effing-right!

  139. frenly
    have been called many things, but not boring.
    my poor hubby 😉

  140. I LOVE this comment by elderj:

    The Confluence is an interesting place. Where else can an conservative evangelical, a Black feminist republican, a gay liberal man, and snarky New Orleanian exiled in NC, a middle aged (straight) white woman, and a assorted group of other mixed nuts get together and laugh? Maybe BO has brought unity after all!

    We are all united under the bus!!

    So true!!

  141. OT:

    I wanted to comment on SM77’s post but the comments are closed!
    I want to wish her well. I know what she is going through. Believe me, many of us do. It does not make it easier knowing that Obama will not do anything for those of us that are disposable!

    There will be harder times ahead for all of us. Hang in there SM77. I know that “Hope” does npt pay the bills. I’ve tried cashing that check long ago.
    Know that there are many of us that are with you when you are at your darkest moments.

    You are in mine and my families thoughts!

  142. 19 states have restricted or limited abortion access. Just last year they were dicussing making it illegal, even for rape or incest victims in Kansas(I was a victim of incest so I am passionate on this) where the rapist has parental rights. I am not a states rights fan. I’m gonna quit for a bit though so that I don’t end up responsible for Afro’s dental bills(since she is already angrily grinding her teeth on twix bars).

    My hugs go to sm, her comments appeared to be off earlier. I am at least happy that their is still a safety net to catch her and help her through this rough cycle.

  143. Hillary has marched in Gay Pride marches. Unlike what’s-his-name.

  144. What elderj said!

  145. I’ve learned we can’t always judge people by the Dem or Repub labels, or any other kind of labels. Actions are louder than words. The Repubs who voted against the Lilly Ledbetter legislation are BAD Repubs, the ones who voted for it are GOOD Repubs. And women Repubs obviously have more sense than the men. Sarah Palin said she was a feminist, and I guess she ought to know. She isn’t the same kind of feminist than I am, but she is the kind of feminist that SHE is. We all have our differences. But as long as we respect one another, keep it civil and agree to disagree some times, I think we’ll all be ok at the Confluence. Deal?

  146. RedDragon, I don’t think they are closed. I’ve made a comment there and have a textbox on my screen. Try closing your browser and reopening it. Maybe?

  147. Afrocity,

    I respect your independent streak, and your right
    to choose (your party), but I am really curious – what made
    you decide to become a Republican?
    Was it anger at Obama, at the DNC and how they ran
    this campaign (both of which I share, as all Pumas), or
    was it something else? And why Repub, not Independent?
    The first time you said that I thought were joking, but I’ve
    learned you are serious. I always wonder why people
    would be Repub anyway, so it would be good to hear it
    from someone who seems so in sync with what I believe.

  148. CWalz -There are women’s groups working again on underground pregnancy-termination care networks, as was necessary back in the old days.

  149. RedDragon> Comments upstairs are open!

  150. Deal!

  151. It’s downright sad that you would have to go underground PUMA. I have had 5 beautiful children but I recognize that it has had consequences on my health and that I undertook a huge responsibility when I chose to continue my pregnancies.

    I can not fathom why anyone would want to go back to the days when childbirth was the leading cause of death for women. Shocking and sad, yet that appears to be the case when you restrict access to birth control and get rid of any alternatives that allow reproductive choice.

  152. Thanks DYB and Katie…

  153. speaktruth — no offense, this isn’t ask afrocity 20 questions time. I think we need to respect other people a tad bit more — afrocity isn’t a freakshow. Hating Obama is a strong word — I think we can all agree that we don’t HATE him — we hate how the primary was rigged, we HATE how the msm used ever sexist meme in the book against Hillary, etc. but we do not HATE Obama.
    At least I don’t. Can’t speak for you.

  154. Speaktruth, I have said on this blog many times why I am a Repub. I am sort of hurt and wonder if my relationship here can be repaired. Like my liberal friends who feel they need to fix me now.

    Rush Limbaugh was right. He said that whenever a conservative tries to cross the isle to the left, they get their trunk bit off. I feel that the left is more intolerable of dissenting views.

  155. This PUMA believes that every American woman has the constitutionally protected right to end her pregnancy under Roe v Wade. I think that efforts to limit the scope of this protection by limiting the scope of Roe are a real threat to American women. While I realize that groups looking for ‘common ground’ for women to come together over, want to take the issue off the table, I personally do not think that does justice to American women. While educational opportunites and equal pay are, of course, important abortion rights even for this old, rich woman that does not ‘need’ them anymore is paramount.

  156. speaktruth — I apologize — Jmac was the one that said afrocity “hated” Obama. My comment above @ 4:55 should be addressed to Jmac, not you.

  157. I apologize to anyone that I offended today

    (kicks can)

  158. now, now, afrocity — don’t go quoting Rush to me, or I’m not going like you either! LOL

    (I’m kidding!!)

  159. griffithinc, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:45 pm Said:

    well said, griff.

  160. I agree that Dems have made abortion THE women’s
    issue. That’s because they don’t want to touch or support
    the real women’s issues, which are as angie said, or as
    I rephrase it – money, money, money.
    After spending much of my early life in naivete and
    innocence, I have come to believe that almost everything –
    almost – is money. You can buy pretty much everything.
    I know, there are a few important exceptions.
    But the real women’s issues are power and freedom.
    Which comes down to economic equality.
    Abortion is a bad issue for women to focus on simply
    because it divides women, keeping us from being a
    powerful voting block. I think we need to focus on our
    common interests for now. Then we need to get together
    and find ways to discuss the abortion issue and find
    solutions. But not allow it to separate us.
    Blacks don’t agree on everything, either. But they
    still vote as a block.

  161. LoL (while kissing my Sean Hannity 2009 calendar)

  162. angienc2, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm Said:

    DYB — have I told you lately that I love you? 🙂

    Nooooo!!! I wrote to you several days ago that DYB and I are going steady after exchanging emails. You can’t have all the guys on the blog!!! 😡

  163. Speaktruth, did you know how blacks in Chicago lost our black power and allowed the Daley Machine to take over???
    It was because we were not united. Harold Washington died and the blacks on the South Side (obama’s neighborhood) wanted a black elitist and not Tim Evans who was black but a Westsider. They pitted him against Sawyer a southside black and they both lost to Daley. The rest is HIS story.

  164. Aren’t all the sponsors of that bill pro-life? At least they are supporting college moms who make that CHOICE? :Choice; implies all of them, that is all.

    Why is it any government’s business to tell me whom I should marry? We all need to find common ground if WE are going to make a difference.

    I am a middle-aged, SWF with an almost 10-year old cub. I voted GREEN, but love Hillary! My husband will be out of his job next week – he has several months’ severance. I have been working 3/4 time to see to the cub. We are hoping our hard-earned abilities will allow us to carry on.

    I am gtateful to be able to get up in the morning and be part of this conversation, and I even found my old friend Dalphyne – what more can I ask?

  165. I also would like to hear from Gillebrand’s constituents about what they think.

  166. Afrocity,
    I didn’t intend to insult you. And I miss some blogs so I
    never have seen your comments saying why you are
    I find it interesting that you chose it. It’s definitely
    an usual choice from what I know about you. Just as almost
    everyone on here is so unique, strange and wonderful.
    Not your usual kind of person here. That’s why I love
    it. So I’m intrigued and curious to hear more. But if now’s
    not a good time that’s fine.

  167. Fredster,

    I have cobwebs in my virtual conservative blog crotch because no guy on this blog will touch me with a 10 foot pole. Elderj is married and every other guy on here is gay. I go to American Thinker to get blog laid.

  168. speaktruth, on January 23rd, 2009 at 4:59 pm Said:

    I agree speaktruth.

    Ok, gang, I’m going home from work now. BE GOOD TO EACH OTHER.

  169. For the record Afro, you didn’t offend me. I am sorry that our discussion upset you. It wasn’t my intent. As I stated abbove I like and respect you even if we do not agree on all issues. Going now for a bit, for realz.

  170. afrocity — myiq is not gay (but he is TAKEN!)

    Fredster — I meant “platonic” love to DYB.

    CWaltz — we all like & respect you too even if we don’t agree on ONE thing (and we are all pro-choice so by agree meaning that we should focus on it or not for now).

    Bye for real (for now)

  171. afrocity, on January 23rd, 2009 at 5:07 pm Said:


    I have cobwebs in my virtual conservative blog crotch because no guy on this blog will touch me with a 10 foot pole. Elderj is married and every other guy on here is gay. I go to American Thinker to get blog laid.

    afrocity-Ah, that damned Angie is stealing all the men! Let’s beat the sh!t out of her! 😆

  172. Speaktruth,

    I have always been a Republican inside. I wasn’t allowed to be because I am black and my family made me vote DEM. The only DEM I have ever liked is Bill Clinton and Ann Richards who was my Governor in Texas.

    I am not for government spending, bailouts. I love America and I don’t think it is broken. I don’t care what Europe thinks about us. I am not for spread the wealth.

    I came “out” as a Republican in June 2008.

  173. Allimom,

    The House version has about 12 sponsors, some of them Dem. My concern is for the Sente version. Dole is gone and she was it’s sponsor.

    I have yet to see someone anti life 🙂

  174. myiq is not gay

    But Fuzzy is gay enough for two

  175. I have yet to see someone anti life

    You haven’t met Captain Spaulding?

  176. Can an old lady that lived in a time when women died due to lack of safe birth control and abortions jump in here.
    In reading some of the comments, we are falling into the same old trap. Divide an Conquer over the abortion issue.
    What will it take for women to learn to work together and not make personal attacks on women with different opinions.
    Every person here contributes to the whole.
    Democrat , Republican,Green , or newly Independent like me.
    Just as I say in my tag women and men both are needed to work together for the good of all.
    I think we all want safe health care for all. Let us work together to get it.



  177. After reading the entire thread I really hate to see honest discourse and disagreement start to get personal.

    I don’t have a dog in this hunt over abortion, but my liberal side tells me it has to be done at the Federal level to insure uniformity. Too many states would put undue restrictions on the procedure. From what I have read, I hate the idea of those partial birth abortions or whatever. It sounds horrible. But fundamentally, I believe it is a woman’s right to choose (to use the trite old phrase). On that, I’m sure we on this blog can all agree. I hate the idea that the issue has been used as the reason you “must” vote for candidate A as opposed to candidate B, the way the argument has been used.

  178. Myiq,

    I knew you were straight. I forgot to say your name.

  179. uh-oh. I have a comment in moderation at 5:20 p.m.

  180. I am loving all the new women Repubs – Palin, Snow,
    Hutchinson, and of course, Afrocity.
    I don’t love the Repub party and the meanness I see
    in most of its old men members – like Vitter, Limbaugh,
    Cronyn, Cheney, Bush, on and on. They are thieves,
    stealing from the people, not giving a f*ck about anyone
    except their rich friends.
    Yet the women seem different. I don’t see that
    mean-spiritidness, dishonesty. Not that I’d become one
    but we can be friends. Have spirited disagreements.
    The old Repub party has to go. Long live the new Repub
    party, run by women.
    I could say the same about the Dems.

  181. I see a post on No Quarter that CNN is dissing Clinton again:
    Comment by IndyRobin | 2009-01-23 17:34:23

    Off topic but need all feminist attention: Today on CNN they were doing a story on Hillary as new SoS.
    On the bottom of the page this was this headline:

    Hillary Clinton’s “POWER GRAB” … makes me sick.

    I caught only the last bit of the story as I had just walked through the door but it doesn’t matter. I wrote CNN to complain: Here is the address if any of you want o write. My letter is very radical (of course may write as you please) however, I do suggest you always use the word BOYCOTT



    How DARE you start your insidious slanderous comments and headlines against Secretary of
    State Hillary Clinton … AGAIN

    Today on Wolf Blitzer’s “The Situation Room” you did a “report” and the headline stated

    “Hillary Clinton’s POWER GRAB”

    Disgusting, disingenuous, and demeaning. We will BOYCOTT CNN and all your sponsors should you
    continue these tabloid, sensationalist, misleading headlines.

    Thanks to everyone who writes. Lets ALL stay on top of this and let them know we WILL boycott should they start this shit again with Hillary

  182. “Elderj is married and every other guy on here is gay.”

  183. I’m going to stand with Republicans for choice at the next Republican National Convention.

    I hope other PUMA’s will join me.

    Regardless of party affiliation, if women band together and take this issue off the table once and for all then maybe we can finally get on with it and work on some other things!

  184. Sorry SHV. You are married though.

  185. plainjane31
    My e-mail to cnn was sent.

    Part of it said ” if you have a problem reporting the news instead of slanting the news then a boycott is in order.



  186. Might be a good idea to mention that we are Democrats in Exile. We feel free to criticize and critique members of our own party, or former party, or the Party That We Once Knew It To Be. We snark on male, female, and any and all who take the party down.

    I am assuming that this stands for those on the other side of the aisle who act accordingly. Unless I am seriously mistaken, and that is a distinct possibility, it is the people who make the decisions in our name who are in our crosshairs.

    This site has never been known for holding back their judgment be it man, woman, party label, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, whatever. As long as someone acts like an @ss, they are fair game.

  187. Another weird thing about this election: feminist values really were equated to abortion issues, reducing the concerns of women to a uni-dimensional, flat, single solution problem.

    And still the big women’s groups supported 0 over Hillary. Astounding…

  188. afrocity, on January 23rd, 2009 at 5:48 pm Said:

    Sorry SHV. You are married though.
    Living in sin?*g*

  189. i read that a moving van was seen at her house before caroline withdrew her name. it sounds to me like paterson gave carolyn a way out to save face. i have no problem with that.

  190. stodgie- I don’t understand? Is the Caroline vs. Carolyn a typo. I am missing something.

  191. I agree. Women of all political persuasions should embrace our common ground. It’s time to stop letting the patriarchy divide and conquer with the abortion stick. I’m pro-choice but I supported Sarah Palin along with Hillary Clinton and Cynthia McKinney.

  192. Honora> I’m not sure what specifically you’re referring to, but there is Carolyn Maloney, a representative from NY who was considered to replace Hillary in the Senate.

  193. Also, I just sent a comment to CNN as well. I think they must have 12 year olds producing those shows and writing the headlines.

  194. Caroline is the Kennedy in question. Carolyn is the other congresswomen that was considered for Hillary’s seat. Seems like somebody was hedging their bets hoping to get one of the two correct.

  195. Sorry, I know about Carolyn Maloney andCarolyn McCarthy, but Stodgie’s comment about moving vans, still leaves me confused.

  196. CNN is a disgrace.

    but we get Kirsten, not Caroline!
    Party! Party!

  197. Very, very late to this conversation. I can’t keep up, ever! Afrocity I love your comments and and I love you.

    I’m back to lurking as usual because I can’t keep up. SOMEBODY always says what I want to say first.

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