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Women First

“There is a special place in hell for women who don’t help other women.”

Madeleine Albright

By now, we have all seen the infamous Ms. Magazine cover of Barack Obama in Clark Kent drag, opening his jacket to reveal a T-shirt where the Superman “S” should be. The T-shirt proclaims, “This is what a feminist looks like.” It was a shocking, and yet predictable, hommage to a richly undeserving male by a so-called bastion of women’s liberation; the ultimate poke in the eye after the endorsements of NARAL and NOW for the all-male Obama-Biden ticket enraged us in the general election.

There are so many reasons to be horrified by this cover art, but the one that really strikes me is that the meaning of the word “feminist” is going the way of the word “liberal.” Just as some of those on the leftish side of politics took up the mantle of “progressive” in order to avoid the increasingly negative connotations of the “liberal” label, some female activists are wondering if the word “feminist” should continue to be used to describe us.

I believe, however, that allowing one’s enemies to control one’s language is a huge mistake. Instead of dropping the word “feminist,” we should restate its meaning in the strongest and clearest of terms:

Women first.

For example, this year, two women made history in a spectacular way. Senator Hillary Clinton was the first female candidate to win a primary election, then went on to win more primary votes than any candidate had ever received, male or female. Governor Sarah Palin became the first female Vice-Presidential nominee in 24 years. Yet who did the “feminist” organizations of our time endorse for President and Vice President? On whom did the “feminist” pundits lavish their praise? And whom did Ms. Magazine choose for its cover?

A man. A demonstrably misogynist man, who surrounds himself with people like Larry Summers and Rick Warren, and has only half the women in his Cabinet as the last Democratic President, Bill Clinton.

After witnessing more virulent and naked woman-hatred than I ever thought possible this year, I have realized that “Women First” is what the patriarchy fears. It fears that we will finally throw off our culturally-ingrained desire to erase and abase ourselves for men; that we will use our power of refusal for more than just sex; and that we will take away the advantage that every male child enjoys over every female child simply for being born with an extra scrap of flesh hanging off of his pelvis.

The knowledge of the possible loss of power and privilege is the origin of all the terror that the punditry and both Parties expressed when Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin loomed large on the horizon. No wonder Tucker Carlson said that he wanted to cross his legs every time he saw Hillary – in a very real sense, she would have castrated him and his fellow members of the partriarchy, by rendering his penis less significant in society.

I ask you, if you were a member of the privileged class, would you ever, ever give up one iota of that power without a fight?

We feminists must begin thinking of our quest for full female emancipation as a war again – but not a war between the sexes; a war between those who recognize that women should be first, and those who don’t.

In a war, there are winners and losers, and for several thousand years, women have been losers. This is the year that we must start believing that we deserve to win, to be the ones in power, and to give up our sense of fair play and wishes for peace and equality. The patriarchy doesn’t need equality – it needs to be conquered. Only then will it concede defeat and grant us the power we need and deserve.

But MadamaB, people will say, women have come so far already. After all, some women have got it made in America, haven’t they? Women like columnists Maureen Dowd and Gail Collins, who make their living by ridiculing other women and playing up to men; women like “feminists” Gloria Steinem and Robin Morgan and Donna Brazile, all on the managing board of Ms. Magazine, who eviscerated Governor Palin and pretended that Barack Obama is a feminist in order to gain business and popularity; women like Nancy Pelosi, who sided with Barack Obama early in the primaries, instead of remaining neutral or supporting Clinton; and women like Caroline Kennedy, who helped gild Barack Obama with the luster of her father just in time for Super Tuesday, and while on Obama’s Vice Presidential selection team, managed to overlook the woman who had won only 17 pledged delegates less than her rival and who had won the popular vote.

These are the women who enable the patriarchy, and profit thereby. These are the women who deserve Albright’s special place in hell.

It is to weep, and then, to act.

I would like the New Agenda to gather with other like-minded groups to form a large voting bloc, made of women and men who understand that it is time for women to be first. I would like this voting bloc to demand of both Parties that at least 30% of the candidates put forth in 2010, and every election cycle going forward, be women. I would like this bloc to withhold its votes, time and money from both parties until this is done. I would also like this voting bloc to demand that the ERA be re-passed and ratified by 2012, and to withhold its votes, time and money from both parties until this is done. Other ways we can make her voices heard are boycotts of press outlets and companies that promote misogyny; demanding that history books include and honor the contributions of women; coordinate work stoppages in companies that practice sexism against their employees; and so on. There are so many possibilities, if we will only band together and act as one. 

As the great Sojourner Truth said, “If women want any rights more than they’s got, why don’t they just take them, and not be talking about it.”

Truer words were never spoken.

Women first.

Originally posted at The New Agenda; cross-posted at Oooh, Nuance!

225 Responses

  1. Are we still part of the New Agenda?

    I thought Pumapac and the New Agenda had gone their separate ways. Has anyone apologised?
    (just curious)

  2. Morning everyone. I’m not staying. I’ve got 10 inches of snow to clear from my car before I move it (or be towed).
    I just wanted to say:
    Madamab this is truly the best I’ve ever read. You have captured all my feelings – and some I couldn’t articulate. I have put off writing to Ms(ogyny) Mag until today. Iwas trying to organize my thoughts. You have done that for me. Thank you for your amazing writing .

  3. Wonderful post!!

  4. Laurie – I do not “belong” to the New Agenda, but I blog there once a week.

    Personally, and I’m not speaking for The Confluence here, I refuse to take sides. I support women who believe in “Women First,” and I think TNA and the PUMAPac group are both doing great work.

  5. Nice post.

    I hope we can all work together because getting men to leave their penises in the bedroom will require a huge effort over generations.

  6. In a war, there are winners and losers, and for several thousand years, women have been losers. This is the year that we must start believing that we deserve to win, to be the ones in power, and to give up our sense of fair play and wishes for peace and equality. The patriarchy doesn’t need equality – it needs to be conquered. Only then will it concede defeat and grant us the power we need and deserve.

    Brilliant, but sadly, unlikely. Forgive some of my sweeping generalizations here, but as a participating member of the movement for 35 years, my observation is that women do not want to win or conquer. We want equality. We want that proverbial win-win. We are uncomfortable with dominance and want collegiality, mutuality, and teamwork. Lately, it seems like we are Charlie Brown and that is the football.

    The MoDos and CKs of the world have found a back door method of “owning” their power. Hillary and Sarah are front door and scare the sh!t out of women as well as men.

  7. Sophie – I know just what you mean.

    But isn’t this the era of hope and change?


    Seriously, though, I was one of those that wanted equality and win-win.

    Until 2008.

    My eyes are wide-open now. And we have the attention of both parties and the media – that is why they are pushing back so hard with this pathetic attempt to define Obama as a feminist.

    It’s a new day for the feminist movement, and I think we should seize the moment!

  8. Holy Sh!t!!! Maxine Waters just quoted Ronnie Raygun on Meet the Press!! She just said (with respect to the stimulus package), “A rising tide lifts all boats.” Okay, we’ve come full circle now.

  9. And with those (I hope) inspiring words…it’s time to go!

    Myiq – will you mind the store?

  10. madamab: Does this mean we won’t have collectives anymore?

  11. MadamaB — this is a great post. And a wonderful way to wake up. Thank you!

  12. Very wonderful post, madamab!

  13. Sophie:
    “The MoDos and CKs of the world have found a back door method of “owning” their power. Hillary and Sarah are front door and scare the sh!t out of women as well as men.”

    Yes but there are also no women so much loved as Hillary and Sarah-except perhaps for the Pakistan’s Benazir Bhutto, and Burma’s Aung San Suu Kyi -the Democracy Leader Nobel Peace Prize Winner .

    Women must stop selling out.

  14. Great post. Will h/t it later this week….

    The New Agenda? Took them off the blogroll…I’m glad they published this, but not trusting them one iota at this point…their natural inclincations/instincts are not quite where I feel comfortable…

  15. that’s fine madamab
    post and screw 😉

  16. Laurie..
    As for Bhutto…her niece Fatima, whom I wrote about recently, separates the woman from the political leader. Her actions were certainly questionable as a political leader. As are those of the women who have been leading Bangladesh on and off over the last 15 years. Also wrote about them, too..link in this week’s Past Week post up today….

  17. Inspirational post Madamab !!!!!

    We do indeed need a new beginning , and I think it is happening right here 🙂

  18. I believe that in order to make this happen we will have to stop looking at issues in terms of black or white, liberal or conservative.

    We are women. We are all our own beautiful arabesques of ideas.

    I was disappointing that some many AA women were fpr Hillary..Until he came along.

    I wonder if Michelle Obama sees that even she is being marginalized by the media as a fashion plate. No talk of the Harvard Law degree or her agenda. If I were she, I would not let them play me that way. She seems to embrace it.

  19. Excuse my typos, I am still half asleep

  20. I am also confused about The New Agenda.

    I’d like to support them but I’m really having a hard time understanding how a woman’s group can refuse to acknowledge the threats to reproductive privacy.
    I’m not sure I can participate, or work with women
    who are anti-choice.

    Also, every time I visit the TNA blog I see anti-HRC comments, really mindless pro-Obama stuff, and most recently a guy named “Kevin” calling HRC and Sarah Palin racists…

    can anyone elaborate on why Pumapac broke with TNA?
    Feels like I missed something important.

  21. Madamab:

    IB here

  22. oops I used the “r” word and i”m in the hole.
    can someone save me?

    afrocity i though fashion WAS MO’s agenda-did I miss something??

  23. myiq please please fish me out of the filter

    MO is in here screaming “if you cant run your own house then you cant run the white house”

  24. madamab: the reason “men” are afraid? Maybe “they ” believe women in power would act like them and get revenge.

    Love this post!

  25. afrocity is correct. We are women first and foremost, party labels and ethnic identity do not belong within the framework of the dialogue. When women are reduced to the levels that existed throughout this campaign then all women are at risk.

    I may not agree with most of Palin’s agenda but she did not deserve to be castigated or diminished as she was just for speaking out about her views. Take her to task for her message, that is indeed part of the equation, but to ridicule her looks, marriage, parenting, education, and achievements as was practiced by the MSM so freely was not only insulting to women as a whole but diluted the efforts of equal treatment. Just did not exist.

  26. OT – another don’t say we didn’t tell ya so SUCKERS!

    Obama: Gitmo Likely Won’t Close in First 100 Days


  27. Catarina, for the sake of African American women, I hope it is not.

    I know I keep harping on that January Vogue issue but it was just packed with political bullshit. There was a smal blurb on Valerie Jarrett’s daughter who is a MO in the making at Harvard Law school and she was going on about fashion.

    This is not where I want to see black women going. I am also somewhat distressed by the emphasis on IVY League schools as a necessity for a successful AA. I did a fellowship at Yale and studied at Columbia. While I lived in NYC, I also mentored a young bi-racial woman who was getting her masters in Anthropology at Columbia.

    The Ivy League can be an austere place for a person of color. If AA’s get the subliminal message that they have to go IVY to succeed, I think this will be quite detrimental to the self esteem of many.

  28. madamab: the reason “men” are afraid? Maybe “they ” believe women in power would act like them and get revenge.

    I’m acquainted with one or two “men” and I’m pretty sure it’s not anything they have conciously thought about.

    I’ve never been watching a ballgame with some buddies and heard one of them say “We gotta keep women from taking power because they’ll want revenge.”

    It’s more like they think everything is hunky-dory the way it is and can’t understand why women aren’t happy too.

  29. Afrocity , so eloquently stated… The way Michelle enthusiastically enters into the” I am just a mom ” portrayal saddens me too , even tho I have to admit I don’t like her .
    But we must put women first , ALL women

  30. Wonderful post! A voting block is what we need to become before we can demand anything.
    And part of the road towards it is to stand united with all like minded women rather than further fracture every time there’s a divergence of opinion.
    And one other item I want to add to madamab’s great list: Planned Parenthood endorsing Obama right after the “women get the blues” remarks and then asking membership for money “to keep the Dem party pro-choice”
    Just like Favreau’s sudden love from the media, i can think of several instances this year where outrageous behavior directed at women got rewarded as an “in your face” gesture at us.
    I for one keep my Schadenfreude list for Rahm “they’ll go back to their knitting”Emanuel’s comeuppance…For starters.
    In the meanwhile, I’ll enjoy the kicking to the curve of Howard I don’t have cable, so I saw no sexism Dean.

  31. Afrocity-you are right.

  32. Pat,

    Conservative women don’t tend to self-identify as
    feminists and that is a problem. All women need to embrace feminism. Feminism is seen as being inherently liberal. I urge my conservative friends to take a look at the word in an etymological sense. There may be drastic political differences but all women should be against patriarchal oppression.

  33. Talking about voting blocks-has anyone else noticed that our votes in the Weblog Awards have kept constantly around the 12-13% level? The same voting block that was present in the elections.

    I have a feeling that we certainly aren’t a few stray dead-enders.

  34. While I am more than anxious to see President What’s His Name finally leave office on January 20th, and feel the entire world will be much better off as a result, what really eats away at me is this over the top adulation regarding Obama from all quarters. Of course we wish the next administration well. Nothing could be worse than the 8 years of insanity that Bush/Cheney created.

    But can’t the powers that be back off the huzzah’s for just a minute and face this realistically? Obama has a horrific mess on his hands the day he takes the oath. So many fires to put out and so many issues to address. Instead, we are treated to this constant drumbeat of how great he is before he even signs one piece of legislation. I may be wrong, but I have never witnessed such undue congratulations being presented on behalf of any incoming president and that includes Reagan.

    This is what turns me off. As if this one man, who has been played up in the press as some Second Coming, is going to unleash all the wonders that have so far eluded us. He has yet to do anything but he expectations are so immense as to be a little scary.

    As long as the press continues to slobber over this man we can expect to be led down the garden path without question.

    And it also appears that accountability for any wrongdoings occurring during the last 8 years are to be ignored. We are “going forward” says Obama. In other words, overlook those who got us here in the first place and while we are at it, let’s just honor C0lin P0well who broke our trust in the first place. It is actions like this which leads me to believe we are no better off than we were under Bush. Had Hillary decided to honor P0well had she become POTUS the press would be having a collective heart attack.

    It is the hypocrisy that I detest more than anything else.

  35. Afro
    I’ve never really heard MO speak passionately about any issues or causes. Her mission seems to be her husband’s career.
    I wouldn’t expect her to suddenly become a role model for anyone.

  36. swanspirit, on January 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am Said:
    But we must put women first , ALL women

    yes. we could use some good role models right about now.

  37. I will give both MO and BO credit for those beautiful girls. They do seen intent on being hands on in their upbringing. And having her mother come to live in the WH is a continuation of the bond they have with their grandmother. I like that.

    If nothing else, they do seem to be good parents and those girls are lovely. So on that front, I will give them each a high score. I remember MO scheduling campaign events around the girls schedules and always being sure that one or the other of them was home for long stretches of time.

    They appear to be loving parents at least.

  38. afrocity: that ivy league trip is out there for white folks too, back east it’s a complete clique, the ivy league grads work hard at trying to maintain a monopoly on the power to make policy and achieve to high office

  39. So often the benefits of a community college are overlooked while the bargaining to get into an Ivy League address is ridiculous. No wonder it costs a fortune to get into Harvard as an example. The degree is a supposed guarantee to high earnings.

    And if what they are producing out of today’s vaunted schools of business is an indication of higher learning, God help us all!

  40. Watch out for anyone who says he wants to unite the country. We were pretty united until the Obama Phenom. We had made our peace with one another. Now we will see this nation divided between old and young–rich and poor–men and women and black and white. Divide and conquer they say or divide and destroy.

    I could have voted for Hillary or Sarah, both honest women who understood the problems this nation faces. However, though I’m a feminist I cannot work up any excitement over Caroline Kennedy who has about as much talent as a box of rocks. Does that make me 3/5’s a feminist?

  41. I thought it was very enlightening to read in Dakinikat’s post yesterday that the gov’t’s rationale for handing out Viagra pills as a way of “winning over” the Afghan warlords is:

    Whatever it takes to make friends and influence people — whether it’s building a school or handing out Viagra,” one CIA operative who has worked in Afghanistan was quoted as saying.

    The aging chieftains often have up to four wives and are open to the Viagra pill as a way to “put them back in an authoritative position,” said another official.

  42. S. Hall: No, it makes you realistic.

  43. This is a terrific piece which I agree with totally. BUT, there is the issue of social class that sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Most of these turncoats are all about their class. The fashion issue is really about class because it is an expensive affectation which is a way to separate themselves from the majority who do not have disposable income or time to sit around and think up ways to show others how much better they are than everyone else. I am not talking about taking care of yourself, good grooming and appropriate clothing but rather the self centered obsession to differentiate themselves from the lower orders. This is also why they fixate on Ivy league stuff even though many state schools are actually better academically. It is class distinction using coded language.

  44. The same people that trashed “liberal” are the ones that trashed “feminist.”

    Ever notice that the liberals and feminists that get the most media attention are the ones on the fringe?

    The ones that have full time jobs in the media are either punching bags for conservatives (Alan Colmes) or they claim to be feminist/liberals while trashing everyone who really is (MoDo, Frank Rich)

  45. SOD: After reading that rationale I am now propelled to go work off some of my anger and agression on cleaning off my car for the 3rd time this week! WTF is right!!!!!!

  46. Pat — appearance can be deceiving.

  47. It will be a difficult obstacle to overcome unscathed.

  48. Pat–thats like giving someone credit for having the requisite fingers and toes. How do you know what kind of parents they are? Their parenting is all media hype. No one knows what really goes on behind closed doors.

  49. I guess I have a soft spot for kids who have no control over the circumstances they find themselves in. But you have to admit they are cute kids.

  50. An ivy League law school degree helps you get a high-paying job but it won’t help you win a case.

  51. This may sound trite, but whenever I click on the New Agenda webpage the picture turns me off. It is filled with air brushed women, only one of which could be over 40. I do not see it as welcoming to me (your typical dried up, old, bitter, guns and religion clinging PUMA).

  52. Isolde: I completely agree, classicism is alive and well in the USA. you may not be excluded based on geneology only, but they find all kinds of other ways to winnow you out …

  53. no one wants to tell what happened with TNA *sigh*
    so I’m clueless as usual.

  54. make that classcism … i’m trying to watch late edition and follow the thread here also, not enough coffee yet to multitask that well

  55. PJ you seriously think those girls are “cute?”

  56. afrocity: there are also lots of librul women who don’t/won’t identify as feminist either. Boomer women, even! (I know several and imagine there are more.) In fact, one of the more shocking aspects of this election were the sheer number of self-described “feminists” coming out of the closet and woodwork to denounce Sarah Palin.

  57. “put them back in an authoritative position,”. I saw that and showed the old spouse. He said “Then 17 year old boys should rule the world.” Maybe we should require a wank off or something for public office.

  58. classism … what is wrong with my fingers today!

  59. Most of the children of recent Presidents stay out of the spotlight

    G-Dub, Jeb and the Kennedy kids are the exception, not the rule.

    Chelsea only went public to help her mom, now she’s gone private again.

  60. SOD: thanks for the cite, my post yesterday was a bit snarky, but i think, at its core, it had some really telling bits

    i still can’t believe some dude equated giving out viagra to suicide bombing … how do you deal with that?

  61. catarina; What little I know is based on blog commentary. Apparently Betty Jean took exception to Favreau and the Hillary cutout but New Agenda kind of poo poohed it as an issue. Betty Jean addressed that and New Agenda sent out an e-mail calling Betty Jean insane and also accused her of being a stalker.

    Harriet Christian resigned and then there was an e-mail published between taggles and the New Agenda in which taggles said she did not want to be part of a community that referred to Betty Jean in that manner.

    The story would be better told by taggles or Betty Jean since this is what I could glean from postings going back and forth. I may have it wrong but it has its origins I believe in the Favreau ruckus.

  62. isolde!! LOLOLOL

  63. Maybe we need a list of women we admire starting with Hillary and Sarah ???

    I nominate Maya Angelou 🙂

  64. Dakini — there’s not much more to say.

  65. catarina: I am a pushover for kids! With the exception of “baby Ronald”, I think most little kids are cute. But that’s me. Just chalk it up to having 4 of my own in 5 1/2 years.

  66. Secy of Treasury Paulsen has suddenly decided that he needs the other 350 Bill in the bailout package after saying just last week he would leave the rest to the new administration to spend. The Dem Congress is wary of giving Paulsen more money and Bush will veto any bill which stops Paulsen from getting these funds. Obama feels it would be better to veto the bill while Bush is in office then risk vetoing a bill presented by his own party.

    This is the penis talking. Would a woman care how it looked to be a new president vetoing a bill presented by her own party? So we will risk losing the rest of the 750 bill because Obama needs to save face.

    The real change in this country would have been to make Hillary president. The good ole boy’s network couldn’t handle that kind of change. The country might have gotten better but the penises would be at half mass.

  67. thanks pat
    I didn’t know why Harriet resigned, or about taggles’ email.
    I’m on TNA’s mailing list but I really can’t figure out what they stand for, or if I want to be involved.

  68. What’s rarely mentioned about Ivy League schools is “legacy” admissions.

    If you had a parent or grandparent who is an alumni, you get a preference.

    That tends to exclude the poor kids, no matter how smart and hard-working they are.

  69. Pat — there had to be twins in there or you were a busy girl during those 5 1/2 years. Hubby must’ve been quite “authorotative” eh?

  70. Isolde,

    I am in complete agreement with you. Many of my AA acquaintances in Chicago hated Palin for being a populist and said she was white trash. I did not like the way she was portrayed as backwoods. Yesterday in Alaska it hit -76 degrees in some parts, the blogs were still some how blaming it on Palin and hoping that she “freeze Bristol’s ovaries off”.

    INHO in order o truly empower women the feminist movement will have to adopt a models of connectedness over hierarchy, political ideology and privilege. We don’t have Take Your Conservative or Liberal Daughter to Work Day. We are all women and should want young women to feel empowered regardless of race, class or party

  71. in the university community, I’m really appalled at how the schools will pay a lot of money based on what school you come out of, the pedigree is more important than a lot of stuff, especially at the beginning of your career, you’re guaranteed better placement and higher salary, if you have degrees from the secondary schools, you troll on the bottom levels … i’ve seen my own school hire a prof that can’t even speak english because they’d rather go up the school food chain as high as possible rather than take a grad from a lower rated school that might possibly be a better teacher or researcher. So this guy is teaching students and no one can understand a word he says and he can’t understand a word they say, but damn, he got a phd from a good school.

  72. Madamab,

    Great post as usual! Your points are spot on!

  73. Amen afrocity…

  74. what’s even worse is this guy got a better salary package than the teachers that consisently publish in top journals whose students LOVE them.

    one of the reasons, i switched universities this year

    ooops please pull my first comment out of moderation

  75. SOD: Hubby was gorgeous although empty headed. And chalk it up to my Catholic religion at that time. Plus I was only in my early 20’s and soooooooooooo in love.

    Times have changed but I still like nothing more than holding a baby and smelling that baby smell. Nothing like it. But then again, I may be a little nuts myself.

  76. Catarina,

    I think any child is cute and Sasha is a ham and a cutie. She reminds me of Piper Palin -though Sarah actually lets her kids talk to the press unlike the Obamas. I bet Piper would have got along great with the Obama kids.

  77. Catarina sigh I don’t know anything about TNA either. Did see a rant from taggles tho on one of her sites.

    The Best and the Brightest Have Led America Off a Cliff

  78. Pat — you sound like a good and loving person. But the fact is that children with high powered parents rarely turn out well. They are always trying to compete for attention and sometimes have to act out to get any face time.

    Chelsea did well because she found her own nitch and is brilliant in her own right. I had parents who doted on me. If I had to have the Clintons as parents (much as I love them) I doubt that I would have amounted to anything.

  79. PJ:

    How can you not love this:

  80. swan: i have a VHS tape some of my friends made for me of me interviewing maya about 25 years ago. If i can ever get it onto dvd, i’ll post some of it here. She’s a really wonderful, warm, with just tons of intellect.

  81. And no, he doesn’t smell funny

  82. myiq: **&&^^%%$%^&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *&**&&^%&^&*!!!!!!!!!!!! And enlarging it only makes it worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  83. i love that tape a lot, it has me with kate millet and a very pregnant me with freidan too talking about the future of NOW … freidan would die all over if she NOW today

  84. S. Hall you amount to something without the Clinton’s being your parents. 🙂

  85. dak you must post that tape!

  86. Much as I dislike MO, I really can not fault her parenting. I think that she will be wise to focus a lot of attention on the girls over their time in the WH. That being said, the age of the girls is one of the reasons that I think O should have waited. Being President is an all consuming job, and I can see him looking back at the girls childhood and wondering where it went. If he is in office for eight years, Melia (sp?) will be in college when he leaves.

  87. I have watched as my former party trashes women. The latest on the chopping block is Sheila Bair at the FDIC, who is by all accounts a brilliant reformer. In giving the Republicans a second look I find them to be less antagonistic toward women. I don’t think I ever noticed this before because when it ain’t itching you don’t scratch.

    Now the Dems are running around like rabid dogs with their good old boys network to stop anyone who stands in their way of their agenda–being women are more reality based they are the first targets.

  88. catarina: I would have to figure out how to get it of vhs first …

  89. Pat ((((babies)))) are gorgeous, and that baby smell sends me over the top!

  90. catarina: about 5 years ago, they got it off of the ancient 1 inch format! now i gotta get it onto dvd or blueray or something, i’m hopeless when it comes to anything that plays on tvs etc. i really am not a tv/movie entertainment person, my current tv is older than my oldest daughter, i think i got it about 25 years ago frankly

  91. great post madamab!

    Just wanted to add that I agree with afrocity 100%.

    Pat J — the girls are cute — but I think all kids are cute. I don’t think having cute kids is a positive or negative for the Obamas. Why shouldn’t these girls be well taken care of? They are lucky enough to have a grandmother to help with their care, they have the opportunity to go to the best schools, have ballet & music lessons, etc. They are lucky, cute, sweet little girls. That fact effects my opinion of the Obama’s not one bit because how they raise their little girls is absolutely no indication on how they will lead this country.

  92. afrocity–I think so. My parents attention was focused on me and I was allowed to fly. I knew so many students in college with high powered parents who were desperate for attention from these absent parents — that even negative attention would do.

    I have tried to be there for my own children and as a result they are confident good people.

  93. Dak-over here photo shops can do that for you. They often have to get people’s wedding videos onto dvd- for only one tape it must be easier than having to work out the software and so on.

  94. psychopathic black guy is caught in moderation again: doesn’t that guy have a life? he just seems to TR$LL sites and drop stink bombs of illogic.

    angie: i was appalled at how the press stalked those poor girls on their way to school. what happened to leaving the prez’s children ALONE? I hope that’s the last time we see that happening. NBC at least said they would–now if the rest of the slobbering 4th estate would drag their knuckles back to their cubicles and do their real jbos.

  95. kat
    we’ve been called “tv challenged” here, so I understand, LOL
    maybe you can have a service do the conversion for you.

  96. does a college education really move you ahead financially these days. No matter where you get your degree? Maybe for some, but I don’t think the majority.

  97. In the spam filter, no one can hear you scream.

  98. Great Post as usual – “madamb”
    *I give you credit for also posting over @ the New Agenda.
    However, l completely agree with “Catarina / @ 10:50am”.
    There’s something about that site that “doesn’t feel right”.
    ** Example – although I like you want to advance woman in politics; that still does not mean “Any & Every Woman”.
    Myself & others at that site expressed repeatedly a “problem” with Caroline Kennedy as an option for Gov. Paterson to select her as a Senate Replacement for Hillary Clinton.
    We all might differ on our preferences & that’s a “Healthy discussion to have”; but bringing her into the dialogue changes everything. As you noted about her & others in you piece:
    She worked AGAINST Senator Clinton and any chance of a
    “Woman Breaking the Hardest & Highest Glass Ceiling”.
    Besides the fact that she doesn’t have the “political background” to be “Qualified on Day One” I believe opens the door for him to give it to a man!!
    So, to “S.Hall @ 11:34”
    You are not wrong in your feelings about Caroline Kennedy.
    Not IMO anyway

  99. honora: Ironically, as Prez, he could end up spending more time with the girls than he did as a Senator and a candidate. Michelle wouldn’t move to DC when he was Senator. (For some reason, she’s willing to move now.) Actually, in Audacity of Hope, he doesn’t sound like much of a tuned-in Dad or husband. He sounds like a husband and father of the 50s–benevolent but detached. I suspect that the raising of the girls has been and will continue to be the domain of Michelle and her Mom.

  100. dakinikat — I was appalled by all the focus on the girls too — but what choice did the media have? If they didn’t report on the girls they *might* have to ask why Obama couldn’t comment about Gaza because there is “only one president at a time” but can’t keep his mouth shut on the economy. pfft. The press used the girls as a “distraction” from Obama’s obvious problems & I think that is disgraceful.

  101. myiq, LOL!!!!!!!!

    You should get a pic of Sigorney Weaver as Ripley with that as a tag line.

  102. taggles — not all college degrees, true — but it is so if it is from the Ivy league school you can write your own ticket.

  103. taggles:

    The problem is there are only so many “degree” jobs out there, and we still need blue collar workers.

    Sending everyone to college won’t make everyone middle class – we need good paying jobs for everyone.

  104. well, at least Foreign Prime Minister Hillary will be doing her work shortly … I suppose Home Prime Minister Biden is out working the senate already for the stimulus plan. i can’t wait to see how this symbolic presidency template works.

  105. or perhaps president as facilitator is more exact

  106. angie, how sad huh?

    miq, I agree. there are many good paying blue collar jobs, plumbers and electricians for a start. you can never find one when you need one.

  107. “Feminism” doesn’t mean much if it’s only for the “right” women.

    Imagine if the Civil Rights movement only fought for the rights of college educated middle-class AA’s.

  108. I don’t know about y’all, but I’m going to start watching lots of Cesar Millan so I will know how to deal with the Dobermans once I’m sent to Gitmo. It’s a little hard to explain watching the “Dog Whisperer” naked in a choke chain so if anyone has any plausible ideas, I’m listening.

    You know what they say, a day without a BZero broken promise is a day that hasn’t happened yet.

  109. taggles: some of those jobs require some intensive schooling: electricians and a/c repair for example

  110. anyone read the peggy klaus article on A sisterhood of workplace infighting in the biz section of the ny times today?

  111. yes, but they are great paying blue collar jobs.

  112. no, do you have a link dakinikat. I would like to read it.

  113. I think this whole historic moment buzz is bittersweet for Blacks

    Recently my dad (who is a dead beat) was as usual taking credit for something I recently accomplished and said to me:

    “Had I been around you while you were growing up, maybe you could have been Michelle Obama”

    Then a couple of days ago another black man was congratulating me on something and said :

    “Go, Miss Michelle Obama”

    Another quote from my dad, when I pressured him to FIND A JOB:

    “I didn’t go to college like you (Afrocity) did. Who do you think I am? Barcak Obama?”

    Now fellow PUMAs, maybe this is due to their being Chicago Black males and therefore a bit more sensitive but why the hell should I or any Black woman be called Ms. Michelle (even in jest) simply because we are accomplished Black women?

    Michelle is like 5 years old than I. Give me a break.
    Call me Coretta Scott, or Harriet Tubman, Jane Adams, but please don’t call me Michelle.

  114. Prolix
    not sure what I love about you the most-the snark or the ‘do.

  115. taggles:

    No, there are not nearly enough good paying blue collar jobs. If you’re lucky enough to get one of the unionized ones, you’ll make money.

    Try supporting yourself on minimum wage – it’s virtually impossible unless you have help or share expenses with someone.

  116. Prolix — the Dog Whisperer is awesome! I have been able to train a seriously neurotic chihuahua as a result. If I can do that, the dobies at Gitmo will be cake — bring it!

  117. Catarina, product is my friend.

  118. I meant plumbers and electricians myiq. I know many and they make good money.

    I wish there were more jobs like that. I do not think we are in disagreement.

  119. *coffeespew*

  120. Did the press leave Chelsea alone as a kid? I do remember Limbaugh saying that Chelsea looked like the White House dog – and refusing to apologize for it. And I also remember SNL doing skits about the Clintons, with Chelsea being played by the grossly overweight Chris Farley in fluffly dresses and a wig of white curls.

  121. It’s a little hard to explain watching the “Dog Whisperer” naked in a choke chain

    You just made our kreepy lurkers’ whole day.

  122. And if you are a woman and happen to have a female co-worker who is a bully, watch out. A recent study by the Workplace Bullying Institute examining office behaviors — like verbal abuse, job sabotage, misuse of authority and destroying of relationships — found that female bullies aim at other women more than 70 percent of the time. Bullies who are men, by contrast, tend to be equal-opportunity tormentors when it comes to the gender of their target

  123. found that quote extremely interesting

  124. The Ivy League is FULL of Losers.

    They don’t want you to know that. Like the MSM protects Obama, so the IVY League protects its own. I have seen students FAILING and they send them off to Paris to find themselves.

    F. Scott Fitzgerald never finished Princeton. He dropped out. Yet his manuscripts are in the Princeton archive and he is considered a Princestonian.

    IVY covers its ass and suffocates the mistakes by giving them respectable jobs at the university.

  125. I too have a serious thing for the Dog Whisperer. I got a neighbor to watch it who has really horrible kids. She said it is working on her husband too.

  126. MyIq, there are wasted pixels being spawned from keyboards across the kreep-o-sphere.

  127. Prolix
    have been meaning to tell you
    that breville panini maker is MY friend.
    OHMG kitchen gadget love

  128. A couple of people brought up Michelle and her taking on the mommy role, that is, laying low. I think there is a very good reason she’s doing this. She’s smart and she knows what was done to women in general by Barack’s campaign, by the MSN, and by the DLC in order to defeat Hillary (and then Palin). And she knows right now if she came out and acted like Hillary as first lady — having her own agenda, being strong, having an opinion — those very allies that helped Barack win would turn on her. She knows what has been done. And the evidence is precisely the role she’s taking now.

    Great post by the way. The backlash that Susan Faludi wrote about has been devastating. I think it saw a major resurgence in the last few years with Hillary gaining power and then running. Perhaps even a full new wave of backlash. Myiq, I agree, men don’t sit around and discuss their fear of women getting more power. It’s not at a conscious level I don’t think. But there sure seems to be a palpable fear. Just look at how Olberman or Tweedy or many others act when you talk about Hillary or Sarah. The level of hate is not rational.

    All I know is, things won’t get better by being nice.

  129. Prolix:

    I sense squeals and grunting in the kreep-o-sphere as they read those words, and millions of potential lives wasted.

  130. afrocity — so true — those stories are mainly the legacies — I went to some very good schools (not *quite* Ivy league, but very high profile/respected) & those who wanted to got great educations there. However, there were also a ton who “paid their fees and got their Cs.” They had jobs waiting for the at daddy’s company, trust funds, etc so all they needed was their name on the old sheepskin anyway.

  131. Hey, I’m in moderation — I have no idea what I said. Get me out myiq please.

  132. Thanks myiq! You’re fast, baby! 😉

  133. Dandy
    so Michelle is trying to help women now by laying low?
    are you saying she’s remorseful or something?

    her agenda was to get her ugly ass into the white house, nothing more.

  134. Catarina, nothing says love like a flat sandwich. The only thing I’ve ever liked to iron in my life is a ham and cheese.

  135. Oh, what an apropos post. I woke up to a birthday morning message from my HS best friend, dumping me because of the “Team Sarah” membership noted on my Facebook page. Nice!

  136. MyIq, it’s my contribution to zero kreep control.

  137. lol pro!

    i gave my husband a regular normal sandwich the other day. You know-the pre-panini kind?
    he looked at me with these big sad puppy eyes and said “aren’t you gonna cook it?” 😦
    of course, i cranked up the breville. im not messing with the guy who brews the fresh ground coffee every morning and delivers a steaming cup to my desk..

  138. cat’s right — what Michelle didn’t see back and “watch” what was done to Hillary & Sarah, she participated fully in it & she believes being in the WH is nothing more than what is “owed” to her.

  139. Happy Birthday Jadzia!!

  140. afrocity said: Call me Coretta Scott, or Harriet Tubman, Jane Adams, but please don’t call me Michelle.


    I don’t know all of your talents and accomplishments, but I was thinking more along the lines of Dorothy Parker. From wiki: “Dorothy Parker (August 22, 1893–June 7, 1967) was an American writer and poet, best known for her caustic wit, wisecracks, and sharp eye for 20th century urban foibles.”

    Your wit and powers of observation are exceptional.

  141. D’oh what I meant to write @ 12:46:

    cat’s right — Michelled didn’t sit back and “watch” what was done to Hillary & Sarah, she participated fully in it & she believes being in the WH is nothing more than what is “owed” to her.

  142. Michelle not Michelled! still can’t get it right! LOL

  143. “Michelle is like 5 years old than I. Give me a break.
    Call me Coretta Scott, or Harriet Tubman, Jane Adams, but please don’t call me Michelle”

    Afrocity-Christ, you’ve suffered so much. Honestly, I think of you often, how courageous you’ve been, how on earth you can take it. YUCK.

    I was just with a thirty something work friend last night that recommended a book called,
    “Why men like bitches”. Seriously.

    Madamab, incredible post. We’ve been stuffing it for too long. I didn’t know the extent of my own pain and outrage until I started crying uncharacteristically and abruptly during Sarah’s convention speech.

  144. “Michelle is like 5 years old than I. Give me a break.
    Call me Coretta Scott, or Harriet Tubman, Jane Adams, but please don’t call me Michelle”

    Afrocity-Christ, you’ve suffered so much. Honestly, I think of you often, how courageous you’ve been, how on earth you can take it. YUCK.

    I was just with a thirty something work friend last night that recommended a book called,
    “Why men like bitches”. Seriously.

    Madamab, incredible post. We’ve been stuffing it for too long. I didn’t know the extent of my own pain and outrage until I started crying uncharacteristically and abruptly during Sarah’s convention speech.

  145. Michelle Obama: “…get her (HRC) house in order


  146. Angie, there’s a tremendous post over at “Liberal Rapture,” the “Anti-JFK” that talks in the clearest voice about how BZero is the epitome of all that is the “me generation.”

  147. Prolix — thanks for the heads up — I love that site & I’ll go check it out now!

  148. I’m in the spam filter again, I think.
    Do I smell bad?

  149. Howdy Joniebone.

  150. Eric that is a pile of bullshit about Palin.
    I’d call Todd a Stepford Husband before I called Sarah a Stepford Wife.
    And how did her hardline patriarchal beliefs put her in the Governor’s office?

    Palin is conservative, but she’s hardly the raving lunatic you and others have tried to make her out to be.

  151. Afrocity — I know I shouldn’t be chuckling about the “Go Michelle” thing, but GOOD LORD.

  152. Jadzia,

    We’ve all had to make new friends. Here we are for you on your birthday. And I have experienced the birthday ditch from Hubby myself.

    We’ll try to be great company for you!

  153. Hi Prolix!

    I always beam when I see you here!
    Could you post a link for that article?

  154. isn’t Pro cool?
    good links, good info, kitchen appliance recipes and reviews, and hair to die for!

  155. Afrocity, my comment in the spam filter was expressing deep sympathy over all that have endured in this endless bzero nightmare.

    Honestly do not know how you can take it.

  156. One of the things I figured out a very long time ago is that men who do not want to work with or associate with older women are the very same ones who see sex as power. They want to be around women that they have power over which is mixed up in their heads about sex. Much of the misogyny from these younger men has this element to it. Many younger women think their attractiveness is this power when it is exactly the opposite. When I managed a professional office several years ago I usually paired up mature clerical staff with younger professionals under the guise of experience and learning their profession when it was also about keeping them in line and not running roughshod over staff as some are likely to try. Some of this hostility to PUMA is about this mentality.

  157. Joanie, front page “The anti-JFK” at http://www.liberalrapture.com/

  158. Eric she (Sarah) is not a vessel of anti-feminine ideology
    There are conservative feminists. Conservative feminism embraces a females roles as homemakers, caregivers, and role as a domestics. Conservative Feminism also champions womens rights by redefining, strengthening, and expanding these roles–even as working moms. The discourse of conservative feminism posits that a pragmatic and responsible femininity can serve as a force for good in the world beyond the family, through charitable works, and advocacy in the workplace.

  159. I sent Eric to the spam filter so he could help ABG prepare a new feminist (wo)manifesto.

  160. Prolix — that post @ Liberal Rapture is awesome — everyone needs to read it — the “anti-JFK” is right. It is fully of great quotes, but my fav:

    a society grown distracted, entitled and slothful. The magic man from Chicago saw an opening. Lazy people love an easy, all encompassing, answer.

    Yep, that is what this world has become — I wrote yesterday that this country is going to hell in a handbasket & all anyone seems to care about is what color the basket is, what designer they are wearing & who they are sitting next to. Style over substance — it’s the American way of life now.

  161. There is an article in the LA Times about UC may cut 6% in freshman due to funding.
    Also an article about the unemployment today is at the level of 1945.
    Both of these things will affect women a lot..
    It will go back to but men have families and need the job and you are just working for extras.
    A man needs the education to get a job to support his future family.
    Women will take more time off it they have children where as a man can contribute more to the company.
    If a single women is hired, we will train her and she will leave to get married and have children.

    The domestic abuse will go up due to the stress of trying to make ends meet.
    This last election cycle promoted abuse and signaled that it is ok to trash women.

    I was thinking last night about how with the shrinkage of jobs and openings for college it seems like they are making it so that the military is the only option for many.

    Women must learn to work together for the common good of each other. They must learn that they have the ability to survive with or without men. It is great if you are one of the lucky women who have a husband that realizes what an asset you are. But many women do not have that .

    We have to get the ERA passed and make violence against women a hate crime.
    We have to make the media understand what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.
    With the coming economic times many women will be shocked out of their apathy and this would be a good time to teach them to work together.



  162. thanks myiq
    I was just about to rip *eric* a new asshole.

  163. Thanks, Angie!

    Wow, it looks like PDS is alive and well this morning. Now who are the ones who won’t “get over it”?

    Re Michelle: I tend to agree with the folks who point out the unlikeliness that she is “laying low” to avoid being Clintonized. Michelle was one of the first of the shock troops sent out against Hillary and in fact it was her Good Morning America interview (the one where she said B0 would only run once, and that she would have to “think hard” about supporting HRC and evaluate HRC’s “tone” if HRC were to win the nomination) that caused me to switch my initial support of B0 (yes, I admit it) over to Hillary. This is a woman who instigated CDS/PDS in the election and benefited handsomely from it. I don’t think her current profile is part of some master plan to avoid blowback — I think her agenda was to get The Man into office and put the “bad” women in their places. Didn’t Madeline Albright have something to say about that? Oh yeah, it’s at the top of the post!

    Back to work — I am teaching my very first law school class tomorrow and am trying to prep. Am freaked out.

  164. Alright all — I am not a trust fund baby (dangit dad, couldn’t you have worked harder? lol) & I have a ton of work to do & I am just procrastinating. Y’all take care & I’ll try to check in later.

  165. Pleeeease release me from moderation.

  166. I got as far as “Stepford wife” and hit the switch on the trap door without reading the rest.

  167. Thanks, Joanie!

  168. I think some of the competition IS onthe conscious level … as in They can’t let a woman win and or let that female get ahead of them …
    I think bo has a serious case of this competitive misogynistic streak, and it was a conscious motivating factor in the campaign … especially the pure viciousness targeted directly at Sarah Palin the moment she became a serious threat.

  169. I hear you anigienc and I’m off to work too.

    rest assured in my next life there will be a trust fund.
    this job stuff can really interfere with one’s blog time.

  170. Angie, I don’t usually recommend articles because I feel presumptuous, but I broke my own rule on that one — it is a must read.

  171. good call, myiq

    life is too short be even bother with that kind of nonsense.

    sometimes the flow of stupidity and bullshit must be con-trolled
    no pun intended

  172. Have a great day Catarina.

  173. Eric please spare me

    you are spreading lies

    McCain Palin weren’t the threat to Roe-Obama is.

    not in the mood for bullshit today.

  174. Classic piece, madamab!

    Michelle didn’t sit back and “watch” what was done to Hillary & Sarah, she participated fully in it & she believes being in the WH is nothing more than what is “owed” to her.

    This is why we don’t like Michelle Obama.

  175. Excellent LR post! (forwarding to sibs….)

  176. Now any sucessful Black woman will be called “Michelle”

    Joanie and Jadzia it is a disgrace. I could see it if it were my 10 year old niece but as I stated I am Gen X like Michelle. That is like telling me I have Beyonce to look up to.

    Happy B-Day Jadzia

  177. I attended a college by means of a Pell Grant(GODDESS REST YOUR SOUL CLAIBOURNE PELL )
    that was locally known as the” Ivy league drop out school ” or where the rich kids went after they had been kicked out of three or more Ivy league schools for bad behavior
    It was a great school and the nursing program had a 100% pass rate on the State Boards … the dance program was awesome too 🙂

  178. Eric:

    The other “real” feminists in our spam filter want to share ideas with you, so I’ll keep sending you there.

  179. Eric,

    I don’t believe in airbrushing anything. Many are quick to acknowledge Sarah Palin as any sort of feminist at all. That is myopic. Someone brought up Todd Palin, I was say that Sarah’s marriage is one of equality without any regard to perceived gender roles. She is politically active and quite successful at it. I take it that your position is that she is anti-feminist because she is pro-life and supports reactionary evangelical positions. Feminism supports equal pay for equal work among other things. Is Feminism against religion,marriage, or motherhood?”

  180. sabotage?
    that is some obama-drama you got there.

    buh-bye Eric

  181. I always like it when guys say, “trust me”.

  182. You’re welcome!

  183. Eric, Please do check out Palin Rumors.


    Be sure that you;’re not continuing the spread of untruths. It’s not an effective argument.

  184. Please don’t feed the troll

  185. Eric: I am a feminist

    Subtext: I like to go on dutch dates.

  186. My apologies Myiq

  187. me too myiq
    its just that eric is my son’s name. the bad one.

  188. ABG is pissed cuz Eric didn’t bring lunch for the rest of them.

    RD has a fresh new thread up!

  189. At No Quarter there is a video of John Ziegler calling David Schuster a joke.
    It is a great way to enjoy Sunday.
    I am waiting for the Ziegler film to come out.



  190. I’m in, Madamab. Joniebone, I cried at Sarah’s speech too. And I cried this morning reading Madamab. Last night I was reading an article by Suze Orman. She said “Save yourself first”. Usually I think Suze’s a little glib, but she got that right. We reflexively step aside and don’t even know we’re putting ourselves last while its happening. Look at the screams for Hillary to “just get out”.

  191. 2 things. first- I use “progressive” because so many “fakes” call themselves liberals. I’m thinking of the crowd that went around bashing Clinton and denying sexism…or who labeled everyone a racist who criticized Obama, but who would never want their precious kids in school with people of other races.

    Second – for what it’s worth, I have been trying to push men on their sexism…and hope people push me if I have a blind spot. When election day arrived, this is what I wrote for Hillary: Raining on My Party’s Parade? An Election-Day Analysis of Hillary Clinton and Liberal Sexism by a Progressive Law Professor

    And this is what fed me up and made me become a blogger: On Low Roads and Hypocrisy: The Media, Sexism and Hillary Clinton

    Finally, I am teaching a new class on “Law and Social Change” this semester. If you have suggestions on the feminism unit, let me know. It does not have to involve law. I teach and write on feminism, but I am overhauling some of my materials.I will include one of the above essays, definitely. Maybe I’ll use the Ms cover as well! Thanks for the space!

  192. “Obama: Finding Puppy “Tougher Than Finding A Commerce Secretary”

  193. Back Bay Style

    Interesting that you mentioned Orman.
    She’s been all over TV and the internet lately.

    She sort of annoys me too, but her “take control” message is different from the “depression and panic” message coming from Obama.


  194. DesentingJustice@1:35p
    In your class you might ask why many have not realized that when you belittle women, you lose half of your assets.
    If men and women work together more gets done because both look at a problem in different ways and come up with better solutions.
    I never understood why more people did not realize that fact.
    For example in building a house men come up with ways to make it more sturdy and economic to build.
    Women come up with ways to make it more comfortable and more storage.
    Both add to the betterment of the house.



  195. See for me as a Feminist — The one most important thing is that a woman has a right to choose what they will do with their own body. And I can’t support any organization that will take that choice away from a woman based on a male centric morality. Within the confines of *choice* the woman can chose to follow her that maybe very different from another persons. A woman should have a right to proceed with a pregnancy or to end one. It’s a difficult choice and something that will affect her for the rest of her life and only SHE can make it.

    The Anti-Choice people want to take that right away from a woman and force a woman to choose what they want without know what her life is like, without know her moral system without care for her. This isn’t feminism this is promoting a male centric morality that was created to keep woman in check.

    I have no problem with a woman who personally will not have an abortion but I do have issue with the same woman trying to stop another woman from making that choice for herself.

    One of the main issue that I have with Obama, is that he doesn’t understand what Choice means — Choice means that a woman can decide on her own with her own intelect who to talk to, what is right for her. When Obama said that he is changing the Choice movement by inject (and btw way he arrogantly says that he, a man, was the first one to talk about morality of choice) morality into the discussion. IMHO this means that woman aren’t moral enough to make that choice on her own. She has not understand of morality and has to ask a man a preacher, her husband — etc…

    Which is complete and udder BS.

  196. Caterina, I hadn’t thought of it that way but you are right. Obama spent most of this week spreding panic. Far cry from FDR! Isn’t his job supposed to be calming people down and taking control?

  197. I think Michelle was more than a participant in the backlash against Hillary as First Lady. There was obviously a strategy there because there are definite similarities between the two women and I can easily see Michelle following the Hillary model: an activist first lady (which I always felt followed the Eleanor model). Of course, B0 is no WJC or FDR, so so much for that scenario. I am not particularly fond of Michelle (because of the “I have to think about it” comment and the “take care of her own house” comment), but I do have to give her credit for walking that tight line during the campaign.

  198. Dissenting Justice,

    Your articles are beautiful and an honest depection of the truth!! Thank you so much participating. Your writing is wonderful and you are extremely articulate. I hope to here more from you. Honest brokers are hard to come by. You are clearly one of them and its a pleasure to read your material.

  199. Dandy–I can’t forget Michelle’s comment that if Hillary couldn’t run her own house then she couldn’t run the White House. I wouldn’t say she’s much of a feminist.

  200. Sorry about the spelling, typos, etc. I didn’t proof read first!!

  201. Michelle thinks that Black Liberation Theology will solve all the problems. It doesn’t matter that Hillary was called a bitch, c*nt, whore, etc… She wasn’t called a n*gger, and that’s all that counts!!!!

  202. (from the previous thread)

    catarina-come stai? io sto bene, ma fa un po freddo….

    I’ll tell you a little secret, shhhhhhhhhh,

    only Sicilians who get CNN in italian on SKY satellite TV think Obama is a messiah or a new JFK

    The rest are catching up now, as Italian tv is doing what it always does- US blanket coverage around election time, and now prior to Jan 20.

  203. Backing CK because she is a woman is an exact parallel to backing BO because he is black. Discriminating voters are not necessarily “discrimination” voters.

    And DandyTiger, to my knowledge, MO has never shown any passion for or dedication to any cause. Why would she start now? Actually, neither has BO… same question.

  204. I haven’t had a chance yet to read the entire thread, but after reading some of the comments about reproductive choice, I just wanted to mention that it seems as the two separate camps view the issue from entirely different perspectives.

    Based on my understanding, pro-choice women frame the issue of abortion much differently than women who are pro-life. For pro-choice women, the issue centers around the right of women to have control over their bodies, to make choices which are appropriate for them (taking into account their marital status, financial status, age, etc.). They don’t want the government to exercise control over their reproductive lives, or the reproductive lives of others. Many also realize there are both short term and long term economic/financial issues associated with giving birth and raising a child.

    (As an aside, the one things that concerned me about Obama’s stance, is that he seemed to be opening the door for the “father” or spiritual adviser to have an equal say in the decision …. causing me to question if we would ever reach a point where the termination of paternal rights required for an adoption would ever be extended to an abortion.)

    Many of the pro-life women I encounter seem to see the issue much more from the “baby’s” perspective and the rights of the unborn. What is viewed by pro-choice women as a potential life is seen as by others as an actual baby. (I’m not arguing the point, I’m just stating the different viewpoints I’ve picked up on.) The pro-lifers I’ve encountered aren’t fighting so much to exercise control over other women so much as they are motivated to “save” babies.

    Personally, I don’t believe in vilifying either side. If pro-choice and pro-life women can’t ever work together in an attempt to gain the most basic rights for equal representation, then I think the power of women will continue to be fragmented. I do, however, think that there are many women who find themselves somewhere in the middle, who may view abortion during the first three months one way, while being less comfortable about later term abortions. Additionally, some women may personally be pro-life yet believe that the government shouldn’t take away the choice for other women.

    At times, I question whether or not certain power players benefit from stirring the point and creating discord between the two camps. What has scared me the most, and is something some pro-life women would be concerned about as well, is the movement to consider contraceptives such as the pill as abortion. Now, taking away contraceptives would truly leave women in their reproductive years powerless.

  205. Back on Michelle, the point I was trying to make is that Michelle knows what she’s done, and her staying in the background to me is evidence that she knows. And she knows that if she came out with any independence, she would be smashed down be the very people, including her husband, that them in the white house. Somehow what I said was taken to mean something else, or worse, that I somehow like her. Ewwwwww.

  206. Hi Dandy,
    I think the distinction is between “an opportunist of the first order” and “an opportunist of the worst order”. My point has nothing to do with Michelle being “likable enough”… it has to do with her having no history of ever lifting a finger to help anyone other than herself.

  207. jackyt, I agree. I never said anything about her every doing anything worthwhile. Just that she being in the background to me was evidence that she knew what she had done. With the things she’s done, I don’t have her in high regard with respect to her humanity. Oh, that was nicely put. 🙂

  208. It seems as if a lot of people get stuck on one issue abortion when they talk about feminism.
    There are so many other issues that have to be addressed.
    Equal pay for equal work,
    Equal education opportunities ,
    Equal rights ,
    Making abuse a hate crime . Making people understand that crimes against women hurt all.
    Getting the most qualified women elected to our government local and national
    Child care issues
    Keeping children safe As Senator Clinton wrote” it takes a village to raise a child” after the child is born
    If women can not agree on the abortion issue, can they at least to work together on the other issues.
    All those issues need to be addressed and when they are fixed life will be better for all.
    Concentration on one issue abortion only and not working for the other issues keeps limits on women.



  209. Isn’t Michelle already trying to work it so she gets a salary and office while at the White House?.

    BTW I completely disagree on comparisons between MO and HRC as similar Professional Women.

    Hillary worked hard for people and children’s issues all her life.

    Michelle sat back in the cushy Hospital admin. job her husband’s Pork got her, and agreed with closing down the emergency room because it wasn’t sufficiently cost effective.

  210. No truer words were ever written. This has by far been the worst year for women I have ever been witness to.
    The sad fact is that women are not banding together as we should, we are the change this patriarchal government needs. We can vote any woman into any position if we only band together as the sisters we are!
    Stop hating those of your own gender!
    For God’s Sake WTF do you women who would stand behind a corrupt Obama, a corrupt DNC, a corrupt system?
    How in the hell do you think belittling another woman will make the changes we need in our country?
    The change we need is to band together as proud women, women of all colors, a rainbow of women who support other women!
    I will never support a magazine, a newspaper or television station that so blatantly disrespected all women this year.
    To disrespect one woman is to disrespect all women!
    It is time for us to call out those of our gender that refuse to stand up for women and women’s rights. It is time we take those women off their high-horses and bring them down to a level they can understand. We have put these women where they are and by not supporting those who put them in office, is a disgrace!
    Those so-called feminists are lost. They are no longer the women of honer they once were, they are not the supporters of women they once were, they are out for themselves and all they can obtain by riding the coattails of a man.
    They are pathetic excuses for women. They are not our sisters, they do not look out for our well-being. They criticize their own gender to make themselves look better to men.
    Since when did we as women need a mans approval for everything we accomplish on our own? We don’t, but unfortunately there are still those women try to break into the old boys network.
    Why not just start your own network? A network of women who help other women. A group as large as ours, none larger, have made a difference in this world, those like Hillary Clinton who by all rights is our president, but the old boys didnt want it that way, they wanted Obama and got what they wanted, they manipulated the women around them, and the women were more than happy to be manipulated. Why?
    I will never know the answer to that question, because I would never take the side of a man over my sister, never!
    To those women who are no longer feminists, good riddance, we are one without you.
    We will conquer this man’s world, we will and have made such significant accomplishments in this world, and we must be recognized for those accomplishments.
    There is much much more to do, we must educate women about supporting other women, and that is a sad fact. We must support one another, if we don’t we will never, ever, break that glass ceiling.

  211. MO has shown dedication and passion to one cause and that cause is advancing BO. She is his chief acolyte and keeper of the flame.

  212. You are so right in this post. But I hope you all keep in mind things in this country are not as bleak as it might seem on the East Coast. The fact is the East coast is the most backward place in the USA when it comes to women. I know you all have convinced yourselves otherwise because you for some reason need to believe that the north east is the most progressive and intelligent region of the USA. It is not. It is the most backward and sadly the North east exports its misogyny to places like the mid west, south and north west under the excuse of reflecting “our” culture. Cure the East coast institutional misogyny and join the rest of the USA.

  213. This is in response to many things I have read here today. Yes there will always be women who go through life seeking male approval. It is clearly pathetic. I don’t know what they are afraid of, maybe that they will never have sex or love if they don’t have male approval. Well you can get male approval and still not have love and you can lack male approval and still get sex from men. Men are easy. There are sadly a bunch of women who need to F I G U R E I T O U T. I don’t know how we go about helping them with this, I just choose to ignore them and the men who employ them (NBC).

  214. It is the most backward and sadly the North east exports its misogyny to places like the mid west, south and north west under the excuse of reflecting “our” culture. Cure the East coast institutional misogyny and join the rest of the USA.

    Constance-what a breath of fresh air!!!!

    Kill the Ivy League!!!

  215. MO just hasn’t gotten started yet. I expect to see and hear more of her as time goes on. That lady has been carrying a giant sized chip on her shoulder much too long to remain on the sidelines.

  216. I noticed O”s emphasis on threats and panic. As I am currently reading Naomi Klein, this really got my attention. We are being set up. Note the proportion of the proposed ‘stimulus package’ being directed at business. Uncle Miltie (Friedman) is LHAO in hell at how the ‘left’ has been had by this poseur.

  217. No problem Kendall (re: the typos). I come here, post sometimes….promote all the time….and try to read. It’s a very fast-paced blog. Feel free to lend your voice to Dissenting Justice as well!

  218. Madamab, I’m late to the party, but great post!

  219. MadamaB – splendid! 🙂

  220. Sam — The problem is this.

    The Anti-choice people want to exert their morality on others. It’s not their choice, and it’s not their lives. Why do they get a say in my life and how I live it?

    Choice isn’t just about having an abortion, it’s about keeping a child, it’s about having access to medical/medicines, it’s about having access to safe and legal contraception, it’s about being allowed to decide when and how you want to have a family. Abortion is only a small part of it.

    I don’t care if a woman is 1 second pregnant or in the last three months of pregnancy, she has a right to decide for what ever reason to terminate the pregnancy.

    A woman should also have a right who should help her, not be told that she has to go to a spiritual adviser (oh yea, preacher) — what if she is an antsiest and doesn’t want to?

    Choice is deeply personal and these anti-choice people aren’t going to carry that child, feed that child, provide for that child, and raise that child, but they dam sure want you to.

    It’s not a matter of coming together to meet on a common ground, because there is none, each woman should have the choice to determine what is right for her, not a committee not a spiritual adviser, not a god – goddess– or the government, they don’t live in her shoes or live her life- – Saying that there should be a common ground is saying that a woman has no rights over her body. What next? What if we lived by committee? What would they do next? Force woman to marry? Force woman to have a child, because it’s gods will? Where does it end? Why isn’t there common ground for mens health, where is the committee about taking Viagra? Where is a committee when a man wants a vasectomy?

    These so called people who want to protect *the baby* don’t care about it once it has been born, if they were about protecting children there would be no childhood poverty, no childhood abuse, and children waiting for adoption, so no, IMHO, it’s about control. It’s about forcing their morality, their religion on others. —

    It’s simple if you don’t want to have an abortion, then don’t have one. If you make it illegal for others who don’t follow your beliefs then it will only go underground will still happen.

  221. Just got back, haven’t read all the comments yet, but I wanted
    to put in a plug for our new third party being a “Women’s
    It could focus mainly on women’s rights in the context of
    human rights, and could include men, of course.
    I always thought that if Hillary had made a speech on
    gender similar to Obama’s speech on race, she would have
    won the primaries by a larger margin. She should have
    played the gender card. Women make the most sense as
    a voting block. It would certainly be the biggest one.
    The men know it, too, which is why they do everything
    they can to keep women separated.
    Just glancing at some of above comments, it’s possible
    this has been said, but I wanted to add my two cents.

  222. Whoa to the “kill the Ivy League” sentiment. Some of us who got in worked pretty hard for it. My dad was a cop and earned a whopping $15,000 per year. Hillary went to the Ivy League. It can produce people who care. It can also produce people who don’t, like the rest of society.

    I am so done with being a Democrat, but Kaine’s selection as chair made me very happy I sent my “erasure” to Dean in May. Why aren’t people leaving the party is mass droves? Why is the Koolaid still so powerful.

    That MS cover is disgusting. (Been a while, but happy to be back.)

  223. I think Michelle was more than a participant in the backlash against Hillary as First Lady. I am not particularly fond of Michelle because of the “I have to think about it” comment and the “take care of her own house” comment

    I pay attention to behaviors more than words. One just had to look at her face when Hillary spoke at the DNC.

  224. Not only does Ms. Magazine have an insulting cover, they are also PROMOTING AND SELLING A POSTER OF THE COVER . . . http://www.msmagazine.com/


    1. TELL MS. MAGAZINE TO PULL THE COVER AND THE POSTER. Let them know what you think.

    a) Write a Letter to the Editor: letterstotheeditor@msmagazine.com

    b) Email their editors:
    • Senior Editor, Michele Kort: mkort@msmagazine.com
    • Associate Editor Jessica Stites: jstites@msmagazine.com
    • Web Editor Alysse Bortolotto: abortolotto@feminist.org
    • Online News Editor Beth Soderberg: bsoderberg@feminist.org

    c) Suggest content (e.g., an editorial on how inappropriate their cover is, what the real facts are, etc): contentsuggestions@msmagazine.com

    2. Call Ms. Magazine and let them know what you think. Toll Free: 1-800-787-1414 or 1-310-556-2515.

    3. Contact their publisher: The publisher of Ms. Magazine is Liberty Media for Women, LLC which is owned by the Feminist Majority Foundation. There is also a form for comments here: http://www.feminist.org/forms/comments.html

    The Feminist Majority has East and West Coast Offices:
    1600 Wilson Boulevard, Suite 801
    Arlington, VA 22209
    703-522-2219 (fax)

    433 S. Beverly Drive
    Beverly Hills, CA 90212
    310-556-2509 (fax)

    3. Nominate the Ms. Magazine issue for NOW’s Media Hall of Shame.

    4. Boycott Ms. Magazine and any products they advertise. Let the advertisers know you will be boycotting their products.

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