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I can’t help it

When I see this:

Ms. Mr. Feminist

I think of this:

Andy Kaufman Mighty Mouse

Watch it here:

120 Responses

  1. Taggles,

    LOL! As long as I live, I’ll never forget seeing that skit for the first time. I was laughing so hard I couldn’t breathe. I never noticed it before, but BO does look a little bit like Andy Kaufman too.

  2. It’s just too much. Obama gonna save all us little females. Yeah right.

    Can’t Ms. see the sexism in the ad itself?

  3. Taggles,

    I can’t believe any of the women on the Ms. board can show their faces in public after this.

  4. It’s sexist in two ways. he is a superhero out to save the damsel in distress and he is basically showing his physical prowess ripping off his clothes.

    WTF Ms????

    They should be ashamed.

  5. Never mind the fact the guy is a sexist himself.

  6. What’s next? Phil Spector as a misunderstood true feminist? Give me an effen break. The only thing lacking now in this over the top effusiveness is his nomination by the Academy Awards for his performance as “the best candidate for 2008”. Otherwise he has been deemed “the best of show” in almost every category known to man.

    True feminist? My @ss!!

  7. I seem to be residing in “moderation hell” this morning.

  8. Hillary should be on the cover. She is practically the only one in Congress still fighting for women.

  9. great post….
    Taggles did you see my parody of that magazine cover 🙂 ??

    Treat yourself to great music from women with your politics
    GODDESS RADIO 10 am – 1 PM EDT

    click this link or copy paste it into your player where it says play url


  10. I like Falstaff’s latest post and the comments:
    I’ve said this before but I don’t think we’ll ever know who the real Obama is because Obama and his followers want to believe in the myth that he has created and not the confused multiracial boy he probably was a long, long time ago.

  11. Of course we now know that the Ms. owners and editors are not feminists either. Maybe they should rename the magazine Mr.?

  12. Is there a cover story with this issue? It would be interesting to see whether there are any direct quotes by Obama that indicate any feminist positions. I know he once said that he wanted his daughters to have a fair chance in the world.

    BB, did his autobiographies indicate a shred of feminist leanings?

  13. or myso-gynista

  14. BB, how about Msinterpretation?

  15. no i mean MS. ogynist

  16. We don’t know who he really is because we simply did not want to know. Spoils the myth somehow. Just like our love of JFK was spoiled when it was revealed he chased women and had liaisons right there in the WH and our starry eyed adulation was destroyed.

    No, better to swallow the line that this guy actually cares about something. Even if you have to invent it. But don’t kid yourselves. The real Obama has been there right along. They were just only too willing to overlook the vapidity.

  17. purplefinn, Falstaff writes about reading his autobiography. Maybe you should ask him if he thought he found any feminist leanings. I’d be interested in knowing what Falstaff thinks about where Obama stands but I think I already know the answer.

  18. MSogyny works for me

  19. And WHY please someone tell me why …. the obsession with him taking his clothing off ??
    how feminist is that ?? They are an embarassment . truly ………….

  20. dont get that either swan
    angie calls him the big-eared swizzle stick LOLOL

  21. DisenfranchisedVoter, 10:12 am Said:

    I like Falstaff’s latest post and the comments:



    Wow that captures him. Thanks.

  22. Does this mean that perhaps Falstaff has arrived at the most logical conclusion that we all have perceived for months? That there really is no “there” there after all? It is one thing to be “cool”, another to be detached. He has been detached all along but in their zeal to get him elected they failed to make that observation.

  23. I know I don’t post very much or at all. But this cover makes me sick. What in the world were these people thinking? Sorry but as i said in my blog this morning, I feel that this is sexist. It shows a man rescuing women, it’s giving over the notion that we all need a man to show us the real way. That goes against any feminist thought. They just set Feminism back with this little nasty cover.

    What’s best, no liberal blog who supported Obama has picked this up. I am disappointed at a couple of them, especaill a couple that were tracking sexism.

    I guess women are very much under the bus. And will continue to stay there.

  24. From Drudge this morning I found an interesting story. Seems Bush now wants the second part of the bailout money. This is odd because he will be gone in a little over a week and would have no time to distribute this money. If the Democratic Congress does not give him this money he will veto their bill against it. Obama would rather see Bush veto the bill because it would be awkward for him to veto a bill from his own Congress. AWKWARD????? This is 350 Billion–get over your discomfort BO we don’t want to see the rest of this money disappear.

  25. fmfsupport@feminist.org–here’s the email address by which you can directly contact MS magazine and give them your opinion.

  26. Ceit,

    It is sickening, isn’t it? Heidi Li said she would look into placing an ad in the DC media to counter all this. If she does, I’m going to find a way to donate something, no matter how poor I am.

    Keep on posting, Ceit. Every voice is important and needed. I’m so glad you unlurked.

  27. BTW,

    I hope everyone is watching the Andy Kaufman video. It is a classic! Why do the comic geniuses die young?

  28. I believe I have found the theme song to go with Ms. new cover/hero/mascot:

    Put another log on the fire
    Cook me up some bacon and some beans
    Then go out to the car and change the tire
    Darn my socks and mend my old blue jeans.
    Come on baby, you can
    Clean my pipe and then go fix my supper
    And boil me up another pot of tea
    Then put another log on the fire, dear . . .
    And come ‘n’ tell me how much you love me.

  29. CELT …GREAT delurking post !!! you hit the rescue nail on the head …..

    I will play some celtic music this morning in your honor

    am on the air at the link at my name and you can listen directly here http://audio.cygnusradio.com:8000/cyg1_hi.m3u

    click that 🙂

  30. That cover has convinced me that we are really all dead and got sent to the 9th circle of Hell.

  31. BTW, the Kaufman Mighty Mouse bit is still one of the most hysterical things I have ever seen. It’s hard to believe it’s been thirty-something years.

  32. shtuey: I am insisting on gingham curtains and matching slipcovers down there in my little corner of the inferno. A nice touch IMHO.

  33. I love this one.

  34. In regards to feminists and feminist organizations this year, I keep hearing KC & the Sunshine Band…..cue MsLed

  35. I’m de-lurking this morning as well so that I may express my disgust with this cover. I know that so many other instances of sexism are discussed on this blog every single day, but it just seems so much worse when it’s coming from a group of women who should know better.

    Blech. And I’ll be writing to those idiots as well – thanks for the address, lauren.

  36. Oooohhhh, wierd, I swear I didn’t know you were on here, momma! Good mornin to ya!

  37. Thanks for the Andy Kaufman clips this morning. I forgot how good he really was.

  38. poe and poekid: Long time no see!

  39. I wrote a lengthy comment about the cover at the original post (which no one will probably end up reading because it was one of the last one, but I couldn’t help myself), but what’s occurred to me since then, is exactly what age group is this magazine aimed at?

    Do they really expect grown women to put a poster on their wall, or are they aiming this at girls still in their teens? I mean really, doesn’t there seem to be something middle schoolish and tacky about the entire poster offer?

    Perhaps the poster is aimed at young college girls that don’t know any better?

  40. I read Falstaff’s commentary.

    Given his Shakespearean inclinations, I’m surprised he didn’t hit on the character that so perfectly summarized the non-engagement and failure to act he describes.

    “President Hamlet” pretty well puts it in a nutshell.

  41. Oh my god, there is a poster offer of this?

  42. Magdalena …. that was my understanding from a comment on the original thread …. I think if you subscribe now, you can get a poster of the “special” cover.

  43. What the full-length poster would look like (i.e. one that doesn’t stop at mid-chest): Obama’s right foot is resting on a pile of women. Who are smiling.

  44. According to the website, for only $35 dollars you too could get a copy of the poster ….


  45. Magazine subscriptions are way down. This is probably just an attempt to hike up that revenue share they are missing.

    I’ll pass.

  46. goddess help us all

  47. I am effing fuming about all of this. This is the same magazine, right, that didn’t bother to put Hillary on the cover with the same slogan? After her years of fighting on our behalf? The magazine that didn’t bother to feature her in ANY way at all?

    Perhaps we should alert the Women’s Media Center? Oh wait–Ms. and Steinem ARE the Women’s Media Center.

  48. LOL Magadalena. That would be perfect!

  49. Actually, below Obama’s waist something much more graphic is going on. But I’ll let Ms. Steinem described it from her, er, more up close and personal angle.

  50. Sam,

    That’s a very good question. What adult woman would put this poster on her wall? If we find her, maybe Pat can send her the 7-ft. Obama cardboard cutout she’s trying to get rid of.

  51. It’s not only a poster but one that a Feminist would cherish!, er, um, according to Ms. Magazine. Which they are selling separately for a low low price of 19.99

    IF there is an ad countering this crap let me know — I will donate something.

  52. There must be an element slicker than Teflon, more protective than Tyvek, that the media’s used to wrap this joker in.

    Looks like Reagan, the orginal Teflon Pres., was just an understudy – this idiot seems to be the finished work.

  53. https://store.msmagazine.com/index.html

    yes, here is the link that Every Feminist should go to and by their poster — Rolls eyes…

  54. Meanwhile in Cook (crook) County Chicago, the African American Community is has improved so much since Obama has been elected:

    CHICAGO — Five people were shot as spectators left a crowded high school basketball game Friday in what police called a possibly gang-related drive-by attack that sent panicked students running into a snowy street on the city’s South Side. The high school has about 1,600 students and is the alma mater of Oscar-winning actress Jennifer Hudson.

    CHICAGO- The family of a woman whose three young children died in a fire after she allegedly left them home alone for more than an hour doesn’t deny the mistake she made.

    But they believe Charlene Cheatem, who is six months pregnant with her sixth child, has been punished enough. On Friday they were trying to scrape together enough money to pay her $7,500 bail so she could attend her children’s funerals next week. The family was hoping to hold a service as early as Monday.

    The fire at Cheatem’s home in the 8300 block of South Buffalo started at 10:40 a.m. Wednesday after one of the children was playing with a lighter, Chicago Police said Friday. The fire was ruled accidental.

    Cheatem has also said that one of her children had been disciplined in the past for trying to set things on fire, a source said. Gordon confirmed that a child in the home had recently set a fire, but it was extinguished.

    Killed in the fire were Jimmy Gates, 7 months; Tyrel Gates, 2, and Sharel Gates, 3. Cheatem’s 4-year-old son was rescued by the Chicago Fire Department, and her 6-year-old daughter was at school at the time of the fire.

  55. Over at Partizane, NewHampster is planning to print out the image, blow it up, and place it in his office next to his Hillary nutcracker his son-in-law gave to him.

    The only use for that poster is to remind all of us that this was the year of misogyny, race-baiting, homophobia, and a return to the Raygun era.

  56. Speaking of that 7 foot poster, it got me again this morning when I walked into the den. I keep forgetting that it is there and it makes me jump each time I enter the room as it appears like a life sized man standing there.

    It must go. And soon. Free to anyone who truly wants it. Obot people, are you with me here?

  57. Ah, how I wish I knew how to photoshop. I would love to show, bursting from his breast pocket, all his “absent” or merely “present” votes on women’s issues, including abortion.

    Obama: “Just by getting out of bed in the morning, I am a feminist.”

    Now that is truly a superpower.

  58. I don’t think MS is targeting boomer women. They are targeting the younger generation, same as the DNC. I recall reading an article during the primaries that the DNC didn’t care if B0 won or lost–they wanted the new money and the new voters. If they could get a critical mass of young voters, they’d have a generation of loyal D-voters, similar to the Reagan Young Republicans.,

  59. If you want to see what’s coming up next, check out the preview at Klownhaus.

  60. had to click on ceit’s link, just to see that this isn’t some hoax or joke.
    stop the world, i want to get off.

    pat destroy that thing, you’ll feel better

  61. Perhaps we should warn the young women what’s coming: you get a poster, we reneg on that promise to help with health care. Find your own contraceptives, sweeties.

  62. afrocity: That mom should be in jail on charges of child neglect. Where the hell was she at 10pm and leaving those kids unattended? I know I sound critical, but there was already a kid identified in her home who had an earlier brush with playing with fire.

    For God sake lady, get yourself some birth control pills. This is not parenting on any level.

  63. PAT ….you could sell it on EBAY and make a BUNCH of money and donate some of it it to a PUMA cause if you can 🙂

    Seriously some obot will PAY for it

  64. Hey Pat, nice to see you.

  65. Work with me now, people. I think we’re all supposed to stare transfixed at Obama’s chest–slobbering is optional–while he dismantles the safety net for women, including Social Security.

    Who needs a net when you can sit in a man’s pocket?

  66. Pat, it is sad and she is six months pregnant too.

    Blacks need to help themselves. Obama is what we call Black Elite. Martin Luther King was NEVER that.

  67. They seem to have flattened Barack’s pectorals on that poster.

    Don’t want to have him looking too much like a girl-do they.

    BTW-lots of votes from Italy, too!

  68. Has any one seen Daschle’s NARAL rating? Perhaps the most important appointee in terms of woman’s health has a 50% NARAL rating?


  69. Let’s go back and review appointee Larry Summers’ comments on women shall we?


  70. The president of Harvard University, Lawrence H. Summers, sparked an uproar at an academic conference Friday when he said that innate differences between men and women might be one reason fewer women succeed in science and math careers. Summers also questioned how much of a role discrimination plays in the dearth of female professors in science and engineering at elite universities.

  71. I’m sad to say that I know SEVERAL adult women at work (both older and younger) who would be proud as punch to hang this poster at their desks. It would verify for them that they are feminists.

    Every day in my carpool they have meetings of the we-want-Barack’s-bod club.

    Hi, Pat! Mom says hi too! She’s busy writing her letter to Ms.

  72. No Quarter posted this photoshopped version from SwanSpirit

  73. Just realised you have probably already seen it. Oh well, carry on! 🙂

  74. It’s Official PBS loves Barry

    -From American Thinker

    PBS host: ‘We’re all working for Obama’
    Thomas Lifson
    Joining MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, taxpayer-funded PBS host Tavis Smiley has publicly declared his devotion to Barack Obama. Mark Finkelstein of Newsbusters has the story:

    The host of Tavis Smiley on PBS was a guest on Morning Joe. Reacting to Harry Reid’s claim last week that he doesn’t work for Barack Obama, Smiley said Reid should “put down the crack pipe.” Smiley added “we’re all working for Barack Obama.” ….

  75. Is it true that Donna Brazille is a columnist at Ms Magazine?

  76. This is America. I do not work for its public servants. They work for me.

    Any questions, idiot at NPR?

  77. Sophie is right, they are targeting younger women. The Kid is surrounded by 30-something women who called Hillary and Sarah bitches and whores all year, but pat themselves on the back for being strong women and feminists.

    These women think that because they visit Kos and watch CNN/MSNBC daily, they are well-informed. Then they validate each other by praising how smart SusieQ is because she was the first one to see the photoshopped Palin in a bikini. They don’t realize that when you visit the same news sources day after day, you hear the same news day after day. They’re so busy knocking Fox or Drudge, they don’t realize they’ve fallen into an even bigger trench, only with dissimilar ideology.

  78. Yup, Alice, it’s true.

  79. myiq2xu — if you’re around check your email please.

  80. Why can’t Obots manage to say, “Obama is working for all of us, now”?

    Is it perhaps because they know it isn’t true?

  81. Thanks Alice , I had to make that to compensate for the disgusting feeling ihad from the original !!! LOL helps me to see it again to put things in true perspective …

  82. That sums up the problem in a nutshell. The fact that we are expected to work on behalf of Obama, rather than the other way around. Like we should get down on our knees and thank God for him instead of pissing and moaning as we do.

    And whatever happened to Tavis? I used to love him and have read some of his books and watched his program where he made an effort to listen to both sides while talking commonsense.

    Very disturbing to think that we have elected a president that we are expected to serve. When the world becomes this lopsided in its thinking is it any wonder that we see him on the cover of MS?

  83. dakinikat, on January 10th, 2009 at 11:28 am Said:
    Has any one seen Daschle’s NARAL rating? Perhaps the most important appointee in terms of woman’s health has a 50% NARAL rating?

    That earns him a spot on Ms. magazine as a feminist.

  84. let’s not forget that blessing prayer coming from Pastor Rick Warren, obama friend that tells women to submit themselves to their husbands and likens abortion to auschwitz …

  85. You know, when I saw a display of Obama posters at Wal-Mart yesterday I thought I had seen everything. Until this morning when popped in here.

  86. Someone needs to do a mag cover with all the new feminist – Warren, the speech writer, Wright, Daschle, Shuster, and on and on and on.

  87. Can’t wait to hear that inaugural speech where he spells out:
    “ask what you can do for me, not what I can do for you”.

  88. bo has always had the I AM DOING YOU A FAVOR by running for president attitude .. it is one of his more disgusting attributes ….
    now he is whining about having to give up his blackberry .. because americans shuold sacrifice but NOT HIM
    Also falstaff describes a narcissist perfectly … They are particularly personality absent, it is one of the outstanding characteristics of the pathology ….

  89. Magdalena> Women’s Media Center? Fuhgetaboutit! I sent them a letter a few days ago after receiving an e-mail asking for money. It’s not just Steinem, Jane Fonda is also one of the founders. She’s the one with the back spasms over the idea of McCain winning. It was WMC that published Robin Morgan’s anti-Palin tirade. I’m afraid WMC, just like NOW, NARAL, and MS. – along with Tweety and Tavis Smiley – are all working for Barack Obama.

  90. I saw a life sized poster of Obama yesterday. Mugs, coasters. Barnes and Noble used to be a safe haven for me. Now the bookstore has become an Obama torture chamber.

  91. Funny how, with all these posters, nobody wants to admit McCain was right:

    Obama is Britney Spears. He is Paris Hilton. He is one of the Jonas Brothers. Whichever one can’t remember the lyrics if they’re not on a teleprompter.

    I just can’t wait to work for him. I feel it is my life’s mission to serve and enhance his celebrity. I believe this is why this country was founded, exactly what Jefferson et. al. had in mind. Didn’t they want us to serve the king? I’m pretty sure I have that right.

  92. Jmac:

    Be patient – we can’t post everything at once

  93. Pat Johnson, on January 10th, 2009 at 11:47 am Said:
    Can’t wait to hear that inaugural speech where he spells out:
    “ask what you can do for me, not what I can do for you”.

    PAT ..he already said that waayyy back in his first speech describing why he was running for president now .. because he DESERVED IT it and was HIS TIME
    TOTALLY TURNED ME OFF right then and there …….
    when I was still open to hearing him because I never had heard him before and had NO CLUE as to who he was prior to that moment …….
    and nothing he has said since has changed my mind

  94. “Barack is one of the smartest people you will ever encounter who will deign to enter this messy thing called politics.” –Michelle Obama 2007

    The definition of deign is:

    condescend: do something that one considers to be below one’s dignity </b

  95. Ms. Magazine

    Editorial Staff

    Senior Editor Michele Kort – mkort@msmagazine.com
    Associate Editor Jessica Stites – jstites@msmagazine.com

    Columnist Donna Brazile WTF???? Talk about anti-feminist!

    Ms. Magazine Online

    Web Editor Alysse Bortolotto – abortolotto@msmagazine.com
    Online News Editor Beth Soderberg – bsoderberg@msmagazine.com

    Liberty Media for Women, LLC, which is wholly owned by
    the Feminist Majority Foundation – http://www.feminist.org
    Publisher Eleanor Smeal

  96. What a relief to know what a REAL feminist looks like!

    Here, all along, I was thinking I knew.


    Ms. Magazine is clearly mainlining the kool-ade:


  97. BB — my post will go up at 2pm, 2 hours after myiq’s

  98. “Ask not what this country can do for you. Ask what this country can do for me.”

    “Now, when that has been taken care of, I shall, in the immortal words of my supporters, Move On.”

    “Ask not what this world can do for . . .”

  99. The cover is Donna Brazile throwing her finger at PUMA. She’s laughing her ___ off.

  100. speaking of weird little news items, did you all see that the CIA is getting some of the afghani/pakistani warloards to cooperate by giving them viagra? They evidently love the stuff and are coughing up details on the taliban to get their little fixes …

    can i just say that the CIA must really hate afghani women? do you think these ‘warlords’ go after a goat with a four hour hard-on or some unsuspecting teenage virgin in a bukha? I’d just like to say the world get’s stranger and stranger…

  101. Sophie wrote: “I don’t think MS is targeting boomer women. They are targeting the younger generation, same as the DNC. I recall reading an article during the primaries that the DNC didn’t care if B0 won or lost–they wanted the new money and the new voters. If they could get a critical mass of young voters, they’d have a generation of loyal D-voters, similar to the Reagan Young Republicans.”

    This is very interesting, but not surprising. And I think the DNC is in for a rude awakening since they haven’t been looking at the signs. While Obama raised three-quarters-of-a-billion-dollars, the DNC is in debt. And downticket Dems had a problem raising money during the election. If the DNC thinks it has “converted” a bunch of new folks to the D – they are very much mistaken. They converted young people to the Big O. The D is of no relevance and when the Big O is out of the picture, the D will be as screwed as they are now. It’s not as if all these young folks are going to say: “Well, since Obama doesn’t need this money anymore I’ll give it to some other Dem!”

  102. viagra: new weapon of war/peacekeeping missille …
    we’ve gone from scud missiles to Stud missiles … I guess

  103. Dakinkat:

    Life in Afganistan isn’t always hard.

  104. I am so flattered to be singled out by this irrelevant blog! At least they can read.

  105. myiqx2xu: i can’t just drop that one, I’m going to have to do a thread on it … REALLY

  106. Well, I guess at least the CIA is using their imagination… Remember when the military was trying to develop a gay gas, that would turn enemy soldiers gay? Using viagra is in the same vein. I just hope they’re getting a…big discount.

  107. Sent my letters. Among other nasty comments, I noted that I had MsUnderestimated their corruption. I think I’m Ms-out today, both in bad puns and the magazine itself.

  108. New thread up!

  109. If I had a subscription to Ms. magazine . . .I’d cancel it!

  110. Shouldn’t Ms. be askng if he’s going to immediately repeal Bush’s insane “contracepton is abortion’ HHS regulations? He’s been on camera more than Bush lately and no one is addressing this issue. Ms. is a disgrace.

  111. Don’t forget Kaine – O’s choice to now lead the DNC. Feminist – not.

  112. The “younger ” gen have blackberries and ipods etc etc… they do not buy magazines and newspapers .which is why so many are going bankrupt …bye bye MSogynist magazine

    besides which they are bad for the environment … maybe PUMAS need an EZINE 🙂 wouldn’t that be cool and GREEN

  113. Sophie: You’re right. After the KY primary in which we trounced Obama’s skinny a**, Dem union leaders here confidently declared they could make up the difference of us old, bitter Dems by replacing us with the newer, younger, fresher just-registered Dem voters. Obama still lost Kentucky by a big margin, but this was their plan and it is ongoing in the US.

  114. Jmac: Kaine is also against gay marriage

  115. Well, this discussion reminds me of one we had about a month or so ago here on the confluence.
    I mentioned that O reminded me of Chance, played by Peter Sellars – the main character from the movie “Being There” – part of the description of the character is:

    His simplistic, very serious and indeliberate utterances, which mostly concern the garden of which he was once steward, are interpreted as allegorical statements of deep wisdom and knowledge regarding business matters and the current state of politics in America.

    Rand ((his advisor) is also the confidant and advisor of the US President (Warden), whom he introduces to “Chauncey”. Chance’s remarks about how the garden changes with the seasons are interpreted by the President as economic and political advice, relating to his concerns about the mid-term unpopularity that many administrations face while in office. Chance, as Chauncey Gardiner, quickly rises to national public prominence. He becomes a media celebrity with appearances on TV talk shows, and is soon on the A-list of the most wanted in Washington society. Public opinion polls start to reflect just how much his “simple brand of wisdom” resonates with the jaded American public.

    An empty suit is an empty suit – we can only hope for some good guesses on his part and that he listens to those who do know what they are talking about – but already we are seeing him hedge his bets by saying we are in for a “long economic downturn” – being realistic is one thing but true leaders point people in the right direction – they don’t depress them with problematic statements. 👿

  116. Joanelle,

    Chance the Gardner that is funny. Obama is an eyelash more charismatic but a good comparison.

    Being There is a great movie.

  117. Or is “Soilent Green” more like what these “youngsters” have in mind 😦

  118. parentofed- ” Dem union leaders here confidently declared they could make up the difference of us old, bitter Dems by replacing us with the newer, younger, fresher just-registered Dem voters. ”

    I have recently been having a horrible feeling that this is because blue-collar and female workers who are not part of the creative class have slipped into total economic irrelevance.

  119. OK – I have to admit that when I first saw this picture, I assumed this was a graphic a PUMA made up depicting what they saw as the MSM and kool-aid drinkers vision of feminism. I see now I was wrong. This is just depressing.

    I do see the comparison to Andy and his Mighty Mouse pose – except that Andy intended the audience to connect and find humor in the performance. O and gang – well the humor is not intentional as these people really do believe all the hype.

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