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Wednesday: The Cost of Sexism

The Peapicker Mother by Dorothea LangeA lot of people don’t think there is any harm to a little bit of sexism. It’s no biggy. Actually, I don’t think many men (and some women) are aware of the sexism that occurs on a day-to-day basis that results in undermining the authority of many women. This isn’t the most overt type of sexism but it is the most pernicious.

Imagine what it is like to go to a meeting where you are one of less than a handful of females in a roomful of men. You have a presentation but as you begin to make it, several of the guys interrupt you. They smirk at some of your statements. They snicker at some prediction or proposal you make that they were previously unaware of. They terminate your presentation prematurely. When they are meeting with another department and you aren’t around, they commiserate with the other department members that you don’t know what you’re doing. They put you down.

A year later, everything you predicted comes to pass and it hurts your department in the end because work can’t proceed as smoothly as it should have. You get blamed for having a difficult personality that makes it hard for others to deal with you.

Ok, the scenario above has actually happened to me. I have the white paper that I painstakingly put together of the current working environment and policies to be implemented to improve it and it was completely ignored and ridiculed. The jerks, er, colleagues didn’t listen. They sympathized with the uncooperative department I had been working with to extract concessions. Nothing got done. We got screwed, majorly, when everything I predicted came true. Thank you very much, guys. It’s still a problem. They still haven’t learned. They are back to square one where they were two years ago.

The same thing happened to Hillary Clinton last year. Three months ago, during the bailout bill negotiations, she hit the morning TV circuit, speaking in her flat, midwestern policy speak (can’t you just see the Big Dawg doing a Gomez Addams on her? “Oh, Hill, I love it when you speak wonk!” ) She talked about refinancing mortgages, putting checks and balances in the bill, not handing the bankers a blank check, lowering expectations for investors, etc. And what did the guys do? Ignore her. Ridicule her. Smirk and completely dismiss everything she said. The didn’t implement any of her suggestions into the bailout bill.

Something similar happened with Sheila Bair, the head of the FDIC. Elizabeth Warren who heads up a Congressional Oversight Committee of the bailout bill described to Terry Gross’s Fresh Air recently how Bair has been working overtime to get investors to forgo the 15% return on investments they were expecting from their mortgage based tranches and how she has been rebuffed by those investors who insist on putting their short term interests first. To make matters worse, Tim Geithner, the new head of Treasury, is no fan of Bair’s and hasn’t been supporting her initiatives.

It all adds up. This morning in the NYTimes we have a picture of four guys sitting around a table to discuss the enormous deficit and an article titled, Obama Warns Trillion Dollar Deficit Potential. Let’s remember where Obama was during the negotiations of the bailout bill. He was on the campaign trail. John McCain thought the bill was serious enough that he suspended his campaign. I think McCain was acting responsibly, others think it was political opportunism. As a Republican, he was constrained by his party and his own past deregulatory rhetoric from doing much of anything about it. But he did give Obama a chance to lead on the subject. Obama’s response was inadequate and perfunctory. The bill was passed without many checks and balances. Instead of injecting liquidity into the markets, the banks lavished themselves with bonuses and sat on, are *sitting* on, the rest. That means it is harder for businesses that employ people to borrow money to operate. That means unemployment, fear, reduced spending and the beginning of a vicious cycle. Our own Dakinikat, also a girl with scary lady parts. has been reading the financial tea leaves and she agrees with Krugman. We are talking about a Depression.

Could it have been avoided? I don’t know. I *do* know that after the humiliating roll call at the DNC Convention, Hillary Clinton no longer had the wherewithal to promote much of anything. And yet, had the proposals she had obviously researched and put so much time into researching been implemented, there is little doubt that they would have slowed or prevented the situation we now face. It is clear that checks and balances would have directed the banks to lend. The HOLC plan would have gotten homeowners to pay their mortgages. Who knows? She might have worked with Sheila Bair to get the investors to take a loss on their tranches.

But all of that requires that the person making the suggestions have the support of her management or party or colleagues. Everytime her credibility is undermined by sniggering, dismissive behavior, the opportunity to make a difference in a timely fashion is lost.

So, the Obots who got erections from slam-dunking the women out of malice or stupidity this year should shut the F^&* up right about now. We’re all going to pay for it in one way or another.

Reminder: Don’t forget to register your vote for Best Liberal Blog (that would be The Confluence).  Do it HERE.

83 Responses

  1. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

  2. I’m so glad those guys all took the time to pose for the camera. What a weird set of expressions on their faces!

  3. Be afraid. Be very afraid!

  4. plural: I never really understood that quote until this year.

  5. KB:

    They look like the pizza delivery guy just arrived.

  6. And the guy at the back knows that Obama’s gonna take his slice!

  7. FDR has been praised for it for decades, and now no one is saying it.

    Instead, they’re all telling us in detail exactly what we should fear.

  8. RD, great as usual. Your post reminds me of the great line from Pulp Fiction “Do you listen or are you waiting to talk?” Unfortunately, too many people are just waiting to talk.

  9. From the beginning it was clear that no one was going to listen to Hillary on the economy.

    The question is, Why? Because she too obviously knows what she is talking about and refuses to be snookered by the conventional wisdom? That would be my explanation, but what do I know?

  10. My uber Republican boss has decided that Obama may do a “good job, after all”. This is the same man who didn’t want to vote for McCain because he just wasn’t right leaning enough.

  11. Excellent post RD. Yes the patriarchy leads us into disaster again and again, violence, economic woes, another great Depression, fraud, more violence, more fraud, more disaster. It could easily lead to end of civilization because they just won’t let the wimminz at the table because they know what they are doing … fucking it all up!!!

    it all stems from stupid choices and stupid attitudes by stupid people flying the flag for the fucking patriarchy. Sorry for cussing so early in the day for you but thats how I see it.

  12. As a result of these decisions many will face economic disaster by losing homes and jobs while this group fiddles away. I can predict my property taxes escalating to make up for state and federal funding which has been given away to bail out those companies who preferred to “gamble” my future as well as millions of others.

    What you faced during that presentation has been faced by many of us over the years. Humiliation can only describe it along with that sinking feeling that you are “nothing” to them.

    The “good old boy” network, alive and well.

  13. TRK: I’m finding that as well with uber Republicans I know. One particularly rabid one told me that since he was elected by the majority, it’s time for the people of the country to come together. This was a CDS fanatic who never gave WJC one minute of rest.

  14. Ah yes, alone in that conference room with the “boys” making the presentation they sometimes paid attention in the moment but never really took any of the information to heart. One company I worked for could have been way ahead of the others in the PC industry had they paid attention back in 1979 – but they didn’t take “the girl” seriously and within the year were gone

    I was at a dinner with some female colleagues last night and this very topic came up – and how women often undermine themselves and by doing so strengthen men’s attitudes towards us.

    How very timely and RIGHT ON the MONEY – RD. Thank you! 👿

  15. I’m home sick with CNBC on in the background. They are interviewing the O today on his economic package and the pundits are all slobbering all over themselves.

    Economic numbers are coming up trashy again and the CEO of one if India’s largest IT companies has admitted he’s been cooking the books for years. Company stock crashing and the guy claims he overestimated the Co cash reserves by 80%. Liars, Liars everywhere. Dem leaders still lying about the cause of this mess. Republicans lining up to play in Obama’s theatre of the pay for play. Obama setting everything up so he can take his payola. I wonder if Obama will leave office with hundreds of millions in offshore accounts like his cousins will do in Kenya.

  16. Women have been complaining about the way they are treated in the computer technology fields since I entered it in 2000. IMHO thing are actually getting worse.

  17. You need to keep in mind the time you voted so you can do it again in 24h.
    As for Obama – he is setting sexism on a higher level than even W. true, it wasn’t even noticed much during W’s times, but the infractions were less glaring too. Now everything seems to be a slap at women – from the lionizing of Favreau to the open humiliation of any woman candidate (unless related to Ted Kennedy)

  18. I dunno why I landed in moderation, but I did.

  19. CNN was interviewing the other O about her weight problem , , I guess that is a crisis too …

    The cost of sexism is astronomical in the health care industry . MD salaries are fantasticaly disproportionate to any other health care worker.
    You want to see snickers and derision ?? Ask a hospital administrator to consult nurses when they design hospitals and nursing units , or how to reduce costs in any way . Consult a college educated professional about her own work environment and consult on how to reduce time effort and cost on her own unit or in her own specialty ???
    You must be crazy . Surely you cannot be serious . HA

  20. NH: That Indian IT story is horrifying. The higher reputation they have, it seems, the more suspect they should be.


  21. edge: I’m noticing a class-based pattern to the sexism that can probably be applied to the charges of r@cism as well.

  22. And here’s another, Countrywide loans, a book about what happened there:

    From Countrywide’s former Senior VP of Marketing, the first engrossing inside look at Countrywide Home Loans, how the mortgage crisis started—and where it may end.

    In July 2004, Adam Michaelson entered “The Vault”—an underground bunker at Countrywide headquarters—for a meeting about a new loan product that would allow borrowers to pay less than their minimum monthly payment. After the “finance jocks” proudly made their case, Michaelson asked one question: “Are you nuts?” Countrywide’s decision-makers believed these new exotic loans were “worth the risk.” The booming housing market would only get bigger, with ever-increasing home values supporting homeowners in a never-ending cycle of borrowing against the virtual value of their homes and refinancing later. They were dead wrong.

  23. One of the things I’ve noticed is that when “the boys” get in trouble their version of “the little lady” goes right out the window whether it’s war or economics. Women settling the west were equal partners when fields needed plowing or homes defended. They were equal partners in wars, whether producing airplanes or ferrying them where they were needed, and they are equal partners in the latest two. But when the job is done they were expected to go back to the kitchen because women can’t blatantly show up the guys even if they have better ideas and better solutions.

    Governor Palin and Senator Clinton both won their positions in spite of the men in the press and the government trying to keep them out of office but now they are there “the boys club” wants them in the traditional female position, seen and not heard. (After all, they let Pelosi speak for them.) Which is why they are trying to replace Senator Clinton with Caroline Kennedy who admitted she selects presidential candidates based on her daughter’s opinion of whose cool just like other women in Congress admitted.

    But while “the boys” in government set around trying to figure out the economy, guess who is really figuring out how to survive, feed families and keep a roof over their head? That’s right, the women who not only know how to stretch a dollar but can come up with creative plans to fix the economy, like Senator Clinton did, while those boys are still mulling it over.

  24. IIRC, Obama was not simply on the campaign trail when the financial crisis hit in mid-September, but holed up in a Florida hotel room preparing for his first debate with McCain. McCain even suggested postponing the debate until the a bailout bill could be agreed upon.

    But Obie would have none of it–nothing could trump that debate prep. After all, the SHOW must go on!

  25. nice post – been in the same situation many times. At least you acknowledge it – there are still too many women out there in denial who believe they are treated equally until they have that aha-moment.

    Nevermind, on a positive note women have come a long way over the last 100 yrs. We are allowed to vote, and are running corporations and states (although the later one not yet in the US). Travelling the world one realises just how priviliged we are and it is just a matter of time until a woman rules the WH – the cracks are there! So – lets just keep pushing, real hard!

  26. The insanity seems to have taken over. I read here, I believe, about Pelosi’s plans to introduce draconian rules in the House that will cutout transparency in rule making and make the Republican vote useless. How do people with her attitude get into a Democracy?

    Could it really be about how badly the Republicans treated the Democrat minority over the years that this is seen as deserved payback?

  27. And the Burris circus continues – he has – it seems “the edge in pending lawsuits” among other aces

  28. If I were the Senate Dems, I would seat both Burris and Franken, get down to work, and let the disputes play out.

  29. Good Morning. My 24 hours to vote is not up yet but Resident Black Ann Coulter, Afrocity here saying vote for the American Thinker for best conservative blog and it is also nominated for best political blog. I post there under a different name and they have supported and given “props” to PUMA many, many times. It is actually more independent leaning and the posters are diverse racially and politically.

  30. I have no confidence that Obama will be able to save the USA from an ever increasing recession soon to be depression. Obama and his frat boy mentality advisors are very petty people and petty people are small minded. They are incapable of seeing the big picture. They are only in it for the Glory of Obama and themselves. History will not be kind to Bush, but when Obama fails to remedy the existing problems and in some cases makes them worse, Obama will also be included in the failed Presidents Hall of Fame.

  31. RD, your work story rings so familiar, it’s almost frightening.

    Of course HRC was ridiculed because of her warnings. The boys hate smart women and especially smart women who tell them the party is over. Now the boys are going to “fix” the economy without any input from women. I guarantee you that they will do a half-assed job, and somehow blame the Clintons for the mess. Didn’t Obama say something about the prosperity of the Nineties being a result of Reagan’s policies? He couldn’t even give WJC credit for what he accomplished.

  32. bless your heart corey, but you don’t know what you are talking about here.
    Clean up 10:07

    Oh, and we are neck & neck with TPM — vote people!!

  33. Corey:

    Ctrl + B= Bazooka

    The only whining I see is from you- begging people to get over it. If you add pretty please, I’ll lower my caliber level on my next shot.

  34. When I read this piece, I think of the times that I was patted on the head and scooted along.

  35. Do folks here have someplace they go to get the news? I will not visit or watch CBS, PBS, CNN, ABC, NBC or any cable station. I don’t go to any of their websites either. I no longer read realclearpolitics. I have hotair.com and newsbusters.org for levity and TC.

    Tell me you favorite places for news?

  36. Just To Back My Words Up Here are some of the quotes taken from “American Thinker” that have made people aware of and supported PUMAs. These are among many.

    “In a state with 21 electoral votes that Hillary Clinton won in a landslide during the primaries, Pennsylvania has become one of the primary sites for PUMA Pac activities. PUMA people are not fading into the woodwork in the manner that our mainstream media would have us believe. No, they are a force to be reckoned with, and have signaled that they will work hand in hand with Republicans to protect this election.”

    “Disillusionment among loyal Democrats has already begun and is mounting rapidly. In the wake of Hillary Clinton’s concession, a great many Democrats started a grassroots groundswell under one banner group, PUMA, which stands for: Party Unity My A**. There are already more than 200 separate groups that are uniting under the PUMA banner, with only one thing in common. They vow that, no matter what, they will not support Barack Obama. There is already “Democrats for McCain” gear and all the hoopla that goes with it. “

    “10/25/2008 05:18PM
    Steven – Thank you so much for a great article and let your audience know about the PUMA movement. I was a Hillary supporter during the primaries and witnessed irregularities during the caucus locally all the way to the state convention in Austin. The DNC, Pelosi, Dean, Brazile played a big role in making Obama the nominee instead of Hillary. No one stood up publicly for Hillary when she was called horrible names, made fun of, or degraded. The Democratic Party today is not the same Democratic Party of old. Obama campaign was vicious and played the race card very well to where everyone was blaming Hillary for playing the race card first. After Hillary suspended her campaign and publicly began to support Obama, many of Hillary’s supporters stayed together and declared that we would not vote for Obama because of fraud during the primaries, not because of the color of his skin.”

  37. I am in moderation (sigh)

  38. NH,

    Fox, and my local WGN in Chicago.

  39. Women shoot themselves in the foot at work a lot. They’re not talk the game, and don’t understand the rules. It’s true, but some women figure it out. There are actually books out there that can help. It’s too bad, but until, and if, there are more women at the top, who help other women, we will have to play by men’s rules.

  40. NH:

    Memeorandum, Gretawire and Cannonfire

  41. Thanks Myiq2xu and afrocity.

  42. NH,

    I look at news.yahoo.com. You can read headlines and summary and see if you want to bother with the rest of the story. They have it divided by “U.S.”, “business,” “politics,” “science,” etc.

    If I can’t stand the rest of it, I read the science and health stories. They’re generally factual and not full of biased bs.

  43. NH – maybe time to give Al Jazeera a try??

  44. Antiwar.com, The Guardian, Independent, London Times

    Remember, during Israel’s Lebanon attack, they bombed a UN post and killed 4 UN observers, and they knew the location of that observer post, which had a UN flag flying on it.

    Avi Shlaim is Israel’s preeminent historian and a few years ago published a tour de force history of Israel titled, The Iron Wall.

    Shlaim writes that he now believes Israel is a “rogue state.”

    How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastrophe

    Oxford professor of international relations. Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state’s legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions


  45. You’re just too radical for Spammy

  46. I wrote this on the last thread in response to Prolix telling us about Dan Rather’s comments about if we want to win in Afghanistan we should be helping/educating the women, but I think it fits here too because studies show that women, if given the chance, can cause the most dramatic changes in their society for the benefit of their families.

    Prolix — I agree with Dan Rather’s sentiments, which is why I do what little I can through Women for Woman International (sponsorship of a woman in a war zone/war torn country like Afghanistan, Dafur, etc. Currently, I am sponsoring a woman in Dafur). The sponsorship $ goes towards education, helping the women start small business, etc. Women are more likely to cause the types of changes that will benefit their families (and eventually society). Cindy McCain is actually very involved with this group — not that the NYT highlighted that about her, choosing to focus on the old pill addiction story, which is oh so much more important. Anyway, if any one is interested, please check it out.


  47. vivienne westwood, you may be snarking but I’ve heard Al Jazeera actually tries to be unbiased. I don’t know if the source I got that from is reliable or not.

    I’d hoped link might be good, but alas, not.

  48. Afrocity — I’m voting for American Thinker!

  49. I see my comment above is in moderation. Now, why would that be? I feel like I’ve been patted on the head, and told to “sit down and shut up” like a good little girl. Don’t talk about anything important. Be quiet unless I’m given permission.

  50. I only watch television news when there is some breaking new story – when they haven’t figured out how to spin it yet.

    I don’t watch the pundit shows – I can talk out my ass too, but nobody pays me for it.

    If you hit a couple different mainstream left and right blogs you can sift the truth out. I use hotair and Memeorandum.

    Bob Somerby at Daily Howler is a must read for anyone who wants to learn how to sort through the BS.

  51. They have agreed to seat Burris after all. All the drama for nothing.

  52. All drama Obama

  53. Angiesnc2, thanks for the link on Women for Women.

  54. We.must.stop.the.hate!

  55. NH – honestly I think it might be worth trying just to form your own first hand view – I have not really seen it. Other option is to learn a foreign language and follow the media abroad, however, Europe’s journos are so far not massively criticial of the big Zero. Try the Uk paper Daily Telegraph (conservative).

  56. Delphyne — you are welcome! And just call me “Angie!”

  57. Angie did you see the wonkette comment last night about you?

  58. No I did not — what did they say?

  59. Prolix: “Do you listen or are you waiting to talk?” Unfortunately, too many people are just waiting to talk.

    That is such a great question for all the silly people in our spam filter.

  60. I get a kick out of the trolls who think we are fascists because we won’t let them fill up our threads.

  61. RD: Your experience is so familiar! I work(ed) in IT for almost 20 years and frequently had the same thing happen. There were many reasons for me to leave the workforce, but this one certainly played a large role in the decision.

  62. jjmtacoma — sadly, I think a lot of women have similar stories.

  63. Hey bb, check your email.

    new post up!

  64. Free speach myiq2xu (I just laugh at how many times I have seen complainers spell it like that!)

    They don’t seem to get it that private blogs owe no one nothing, they are not the government.

  65. Their freedom of speach doesn’t obligate us to listen.

  66. Hi Afrocity!

    One of the benefits for me of this crazy year has been that I discovered some conservative blogs that I like to read. One of them is American Thinker, and I’ve been voting for them in the polls. I don’t always agree with them, but at times I do. I have realized that it is interesting and helpful to read some conservative sites. It helps me sort out the wheat from the chaff.

  67. Honest question here.

    Hillary Clinton has agreed to work for Barack Obama. In a pretty important position. She certainly wasn’t forced to accept this position, and could have retained a more independent perspective as Senator of New York.

    Reading through these blog entries, I still see significant resentment against Obama because of his primary campaign. It seems that he politi-sexually assaulted Ms. Clinton for several months. And according to a video posted here yesterday, President Obama will be ushering a new era of rape in this country for the next four years.

    I am honestly trying to understand what your perspective here is. These are the only two things I could come up with:

    1. Hillary Clinton is now the enemy, because she has accepted a senior-level cabinet position to support an administration that will actively oppress women.


    2. This blog community is supporting Hillary’s secret plan to undermine this administration, and set up a primary fight in 2012.

    I can’t think of any other ways that the proprietors of this blog can reconcile Ms. Clinton’s active support of the Obama administration. Can you clarify?

  68. copa: Keep thinking–there are more options. The first that comes to my mind is that Hillary is a stateswoman who has never refused service to this country. Despite B0’s frat boy mentality and dubious value as a president, Hillary’s service to this country in the role of SoS is in America’s best interest. (But if she had consulted me first, I would have told her not to trust him.)

  69. No, copa, you have figured it all out. It is the secret plot, a “Hillary coup” if you will….

    Good grief. You don’t even pretend to be obtuse well.

  70. Copa:

    We are supporters of Hillary Clinton, not followers.

    Our tax dollars were spent to hold primaries. We voted for her, as did the majority of the primary voters.

    Delegates were pledged to vote for her but didn’t, because of backroom deals at the convention.

    The fact that she salvaged the best deal she could get for herself doesn’t mean everything is okay.

    BTW – Do you have more information about Hillary’s “secret plan?” Where do we sign up?

  71. Oh my the kool aid is still shrinking the brain cells.

    Get a clue copa.

  72. Clinton was pretty well forced to cooperate with Obama if she wanted a political future.

    I still think she’ll do an excellent job and he’ll fire her in a year. I honestly have no idea what she was thinking, taking that job.

    Man, I’m just jealous that Afrocity drew a fun nickname from the Honkettes. Maybe I’ll name myself the Phyllis Schlafly of Confluence…(not that I’m here all the time, wish I could spend more time posting, but I loooooove to read this place….everything’s so dense and great that by the time I’m done reading it all it’s 2 hours later and I’m late for work!!)

  73. Which is another way of saying THANK YOU to the excellent RD for another post laying it all out. Can’t believe we’re all still having to draw folks a picture here in the 21st century, but there you have it.

  74. The sad thing is that the same cycle of “little things” continues to occur in the 21st century. Betty Jean is right in all of this, too. We have to teach equality to boys and girls from birth. No more use of terms such as “he’s a sissy” and “don’t throw like a girl.” The demeaning language begins very young and carries forward to the symbolic water cooler gatherings and the ridiculing of women’s ideas in the workplace setting. (Often, the men are just annoyed that they didn’t think of the ideas first, but that’s another psychological problem. Or, maybe it isn’t, maybe it all goes back to that childhood framing that infers a girl is inferior — even though she may be a future honor student, even a valedictorian.)

  75. Not to detract from your argument RD, which is VERY valid, but it happens to men too! There is a corporate “We got here on our merit so we know what to do, YOU don’t so butt out” (Which is the Peter Principle to a ‘T’)

    I have been in IT, Web Dev, and not LIbrarianship, there is still a predjudice agaist anyone not in “the circle”. Men have at least a *chance* to get in that circle, few women do. But is unfair all the way around.

  76. It’s the same old playground scene being played out time and time again. Some folks never outgrow it and it creates the sad situation we see for women and some men. 😦

  77. er, NOW Librarianship 😉

  78. oh good thanks for the info hrc. And for letting us know your ip address and email so we can sell it to a spam mailing list.

    Just kidding

    or am I?

  79. must not feed trolls
    must not feed trolls
    must not feed trolls

  80. hrc… it’s interesting what you find interesting…. a tad obsessed with the petulant clown, perhaps?


  81. Obama may not have been on the Hill when the bailout was being debated, but he was whipping votes for Pelosi after the first vote failed.

    I don’t have a link (I suck at this stuff) but I watched the second Congressional vote debate on CSPAN; several members of Congress said on the record that, after discussions with and promises made by Senator Obama, they decided to vote in favor of the bailout.

  82. But we also have to acknowledge that not ALL women in power are ideal, either!!

    Today, a woman was sworn in as PM in Bangladesh. She ran against another woman, another former PM. Both have been in TWICE…great, huh???

    Well, maybe now so much. Women in power…not always the greatest, as we’ve seen with the likes of Pelosi and Brazile…

    See for more info…

    Women in Power: The Example of Prime Ministers in Bangladesh, “A No-Casserole Zone”

    As Inauguration Day draws closer, many of us are still feeling very angry and insulted. Even though most of us were not naive about politics before the 2008 primary season began, we still were in for a shock on two fronts. First, the utter corruption of the Democratic Party, once our “safe haven,” became painfully clear. Second, and related to this, was how the party saw their hand-picked candidate to introduce misogyny, as well as race, into the campaign and didn’t make any moves to stop it. Not that the leadership even wanted to…

    So, many of us feel that Hillary Clinton, even if she weren’t the first choice of some, still was badly treated and was “robbed” of the nomination. Later, Clinton decided to stay and play with the boys, which was very disappointing. On the Republican side, Sarah Palin was trashed just to be trashed and suddenly the only person on either ticket with long executive experience wasn’t “qualified” ; and she was undermined by factions in her party as well.

    So here we are in the United States, with so many of us not feeling fine about the status of women these days. Many of us who have been in this fight since the 60’s see things slipping away, while many women and girls, along with the media and many men, either don’t get it or if they do, are just willing to accept a disdainful, hollow man as President rather than a more experienced, tough, fighting woman.

    Which brings us to another thing to ponder.,,,,

  83. That’s NOT SO MUCH, sorry!

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