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How Would Jesus Vote?

BIGBEARD_TH_C_^_THURSDAY

Ed Dobson is a former pastor of the Calvary Church, a megachurch in Grand Rapids, Michigan and is currently vice president of spiritual formation at Cornerstone University, also in Grand Rapids. Dobson graduated from Bob Jones University and was Dean of Men at Liberty University. He was named to the board of The Moral Majority by Jerry Falwell himself. He appears to be a certified member of the right wing evangelical community.

I don’t want to ridicule this guy, because he seems completely sincere; but I think he may be headed for disillusionment. About a year ago, Dobson read the book, The Year of Living Biblically, by A.J. Jacobs. In this book, Jacobs describes how for entire year he attempted to follow all the teachings in the bible literally. Following Jacobs’ example, Dobson decided to try to live like Jesus lived for a year.

His revelation: Being Jesus is tough.

“I’ve concluded that I am a follower, but I’m not a very good one,” said Dobson, one of West Michigan’s pre-eminent pastors. “If you get serious about the Bible, it will really mess you up.”

But a year of living like Jesus has affected Dobson in deeply spiritual and unexpected ways.

He has witnessed for Jesus in bars, picked up strangers needing rides and voted for a Democrat he believes best reflects Christ’s teachings.

Yes, fellow Conflucians, based on his weekly readings of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, Dobson decided that Jesus would have voted for Barack Obama! Good God, why?

“Jesus is a very troubling individual,” Dobson said.

Jesus’ troubling teachings influenced him to vote for Barack Obama — his first vote for a Democrat for president. Though disagreeing with Obama on abortion, he said, “I felt, as an individual, he was closer to the spirit of Jesus’ teachings than anyone else. (Obama) was a community organizer, so he was into the poor, the marginalized, the oppressed, which Jesus is very much into.”

I see. He voted for Obama because of his community organizing back before he became a politician. Honestly, though, wouldn’t Jesus have looked a little deeper? Would Jesus have voted for someone who cheated by stealing votes from his opponent? Would Jesus have voted for someone who permitted his supporters to commit fraud in the caucuses? Would he have voted for someone who savaged his female opponent with sexist remarks–and who gave her the finger? Would Jesus have voted for a race-baiter? Would he have voted for someone who followed the Chicago Way? Would he have voted for a malignant narcissist? I’m sorry, Dr. Dobson seems like very nice man, but it sounds to me like he just voted for a flim-flam man promising “hope” and “change,” like the rest of the Obamicans did.

scamalot6

You can see an interview with Dobson on Good Morning America here.

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238 Responses

  1. I believe that there are gifts of the holy spirit. One of those gifts is the ability to discern truth. Mr. Dobson does not appear to have that gift.

  2. the dude has an interesting beard. is that because there’s no shaving in the bible?

  3. A lot of people had that problem this year.

  4. Why is it that the first thought that comes to my mind is
    Jesus would have thrown backtrack and bunch out of the temple.
    He did not suffer hypocrites gladly.
    From every thing I was taught Jesus was one of those people.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  5. I must have missed the gospel where Jesus takes money from slumlords who let their tenants freeze. Or the one where Jesus insists that insurance companies have the say over who gets healed. Or the one where Jesus says, “Do unto others, just make sure you can get away with it.”

    You’d think my New Testament instructor would have been more with it.

  6. stupid effing religious people — they can quote the bible book & verse but always forget the most important thing Jesus said about the government: “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and render unto the Lord what is the Lord’s” — Jesus would have seen through the fake concern for the “poor and marginalized” that Obama talks about but doesn’t practice. Hell, if I could see through it, the Son of God could too.

  7. Jeebus would have voted for Obama cuz Jeebus is dead.

    It’s the Chicago way.

  8. Dobson sounds like everyone else who voted for Obama–he knew virtually nothing about him, except the carefully packaged persona Axelrod created and Obama sold. Again, we go back to a disturbingly un/misinformed public and the total breakdown of a free press.

    Remember: “Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor!” How many idiot celebrities repeated that line along with Donna B. and everyone else who got their talking points that week?

  9. Sister of ye! LMAO!!!

    helenk — exactly right — Jesus was an instigator, a radical, a badass — not a candy-assed smooth talking hypocrite like Obama.

  10. yeah, but when Jesus said “let he who is without sin throw the first stone” he did follow it up with “I’m just messin’ with ya”

  11. First of all, the meme that Jesus was a community organizer has been greatly exaggerated — he was a teacher/preacher. Second of all even if He was, one thing He was NOT was a sexist — Mary Magdalene, Martha & Mary — they were among his disciples. The fact that Obama is a blatant sexist should have stopped any follower of Jesus from voting for Obama.

    Oh, and while I don’t pretend to know the mind of God, I do believe He has more important things to worry about then helping Obama get elected POTUS.

  12. Is this guy related to Focus on the Family’s James Dobson?

  13. Yikes, I’m in moderation–have absolutely no idea why! My post was an innocuous single sentence.

  14. ot
    At uppity women’ blog there is a picture of botox nancy that is worth at least 3 hundred million words. It is so her.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  15. Well, the guy does say, ““If you get serious about the Bible, it will really mess you up.” Case closed.

  16. well, I looked and this guy isn’t releated to James Dobson of Focus on the Family fame. apparently, James thinks Ed is a wild and crazy liberal, not because of the Obama vote but because he ministers to aids patients and to poor inner-city types. I guess this guy is well meaning. but this whole community organizer thing is so ridiculous. Obama was registering people to vote, and I’m sure influencing who they voted for, and I would be really surprised if it was for their own good.

  17. I’m betting Jesus would have been an issues type of guy. I doubt he’d have wasted his time playing favorites and instead would have chosen to push both candidates to feed and clothe the hungry, sick and poor. JMO

  18. Jeebus would have voted for Obama cuz Jeebus is dead.

    It’s the Chicago way.

    ***********

    myiq! LMAO

  19. I don’t believe Jesus asked the moneylenders to buy a passel of land to add on to his Jerusalem manse or offered them earmarks in exchange for a raise for Mary magdelaine, either. OTOH, his rendition of “Dirt off the Shoulder” in Aramaic is still praised in Biblical circles.

  20. myiq2xu, on January 4th, 2009 at 9:42 pm Said:
    I’m laughing too. But I miss the baby clown avatar. As for the wingnut in the post…did he try to walk on water? Or did he believe that Obama can? Or did he decide not to vote for Senator Clinton because Jesus would have disfavored working on behalf of children or victims of the 9/11 attacks?

  21. Has anyone ever seen a single story where someone from Obama’s past mentions a single good deed Obama did for him or her? I’m not talking about the “community organizing,” which was his paid job, and which never seemed to help anyone in the community. I’m tallking someone even as simple as “my car battery was dead and Obama lent me his jumper cables” or “I was short money for dinner and Obama floated me $10 till payday.”

    Just like with Junior Bush, we hear about how concerned he is with the poor and unfortunate, but there’s no record of either ever helping anyone out. Even their official (i.e., deductible) charity is pretty stingy.

    As much as the Bush family hushed up about Junior, we still got the story about him blowing up frogs as a kid. We knew even less about Obama. Which I find pretty scary for a guy with his finger on the red button.

  22. I’m just always amazed by people who believe that “God” is obsessed with the minutiae of life in America

  23. Bostonboomer, I just included a tidbit about this bit of lunacy in my latest post. I guess the new pr ploy is, “if you won’t buy that he’s Jesus, wouldja believe Jesus’ bud?

    BTW, how do I do the “vote for the Confluence” thingy on my blog?

  24. They’re going to annouce Franken the winner monday am …

  25. they’re as in the state of minnesota official whatever committee

  26. cinie: I added mine to blog links; easier than putting a pic with a link, katiebird is the goddess of those things though … pull email her, she can help

  27. sister of ye, on January 4th, 2009 at 10:12 pm Said:

    This is a great point. Thank you for making it.

  28. OT…….But Obama is really testing the power of the “Holy” Kool-Aid with the regressive bloggers. Tim (I have a faith-based opposition to abortion.
    Kaine and now a page from the Republican playbook..massive tax cuts.

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President-elect Barack Obama’s economic stimulus plan will propose business and middle class tax cuts of about $310 billion dollars, or 40 percent of the package, a senior Democratic aide said on Sunday.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE50405820090105

    What happened to the excess profit tax on big oil and the roll-back of tax cuts for millionairs??

  29. Dakinikat
    Did you get to see the Mummers tribute to the Krewes of New Orleans?
    I thought you would enjoy it.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  30. Hey, per reg in the other thread, Burris is threatening to sue if they won’t seat him? I think he’s officially my new favorite guy, we should start a “Hell No We Won’t Go Under the Bus for Teleprompter Jesus Without a Fight” foundation to support him.

  31. sister of ye:

    Ask not what Obama can do for you – ask what you can do for Obama!

  32. helenk: yes I saw it on youtube: thanks so much for suggesting it, i saw a few on tv … loved the strike up the band one

  33. SHV, they don’t care about abortion rights and for sure they’ll mysteriously be willing to let all the other things slide too. Except for the fact that he’s not a Republican or an ex, he’s probably their dream candidate. They’re flexible like that, they hated Obama too before the threat of Girls reared its head.

  34. according to cnn: Reid is wriggling about the Burris nom …

  35. lol….george bush the elder thinks jeb would make a great president…..hahaha……sorry, back to the topic…

  36. Hi Cinie,

    Sorry I was gone so long. What kind of link would you like to put on your blog? You can use the badge that we have on ours and say Vote for the Confluence for Best Liberal Blog, or you can just put a link up in a prominent place on your blog. If you want to use the Weblog badge you can go to the site and download the widget there. You can e-mail me privately if you want to. I cc’d you on some e-mails I sent today.

  37. “Hell, if I could see through it, the Son of God could too”

    Angie, I loved the irreverance as well as innocence of this simple statement.

  38. kiki — what’s so funny? Jeb would be at least as good as Obama! LOL

  39. Heidi Li,

    From what I read about this guy Dobson, he sounds like a good person. It’s just that he didn’t really try to find out what Obama was about–so typical of Obama voters. I think Jesus would have been shocked by all the money Obama raised and that he didn’t accept public funding, for example. Don’t you think so?

  40. Angie,

    Rod Blagojevich would be at least as good as Obama.

  41. lililam — glad you like — I meant to convey exactly that: irreverance, innocence & simplicity.

  42. George Bush the elder should have pointed out that his elder son is a dimwit, then.

    dakinikat, wriggling like backing off? Well good, it’s not like he looked like a damn fool trying to provoke a public showdown over this….oh wait. Whatta maroon! The Democratic Party–we coddle criminals and sleazes but will fight like hell against innocent bystanders, especially if they’re women or POC.

  43. bb — hey, at least Blago has executed experience & has held a full time job! LOL

    Face it, my cat would be at least as good as Obama — he kills rats, he doesn’t get in bed with them.

  44. dakinikat — harry “jelly fish backbone” reid isn’t putting his money where his mouth is after Blago called his bluff? color me not surprised. LOL

  45. Well, if Evil Bush Sr. wants lil’ Jebbie as prez, it would explain why the dirty Republican fighters never made their appearance last fall, and why it was open hunting on Sarah Palin in the media.

    Kind of like a lot of Dems let Gore be trashed in 2000 so it wouldn’t screw up their runs in 2004.

    Anyone else get really p*ssed when elder Bush appears on those charitable donation spots with Big Dog? Posing up as Mr. Humanitarian after all the evil he did as CIA, veep and POTUS. What he abetted in Central America alone should net him a warm spot in any afterlife, and I’m not talking pipe and slippers by the hearth. Not to mention foisting one idiot son on us already.

  46. dakinikat, on January 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm Said: Edit Comment

    Reid is in a real pickle on this one. He’s hoping like hell that Blago steps down, Pat Quinn steps in and then appoints Burris so that he, Reid, won’t have to look like he’s being his usual idjit, pernicious self. It really is rich to listen to Reid – Reid! – say that is objection to Burris is that he is being appointed by a tainted governor. After all he had no objection to the Dem nominee being selected by a corrupt process.

    My guess: Obama, or at least Rahm Emanuel, is more deeply implicated in the entire Blago mess than has yet to come out – but it will come out and Reid just has no idea where he’s going to seek shelther when it does.

  47. wriggling like backing off … yup…

  48. and btw — if I haven’t mentioned this before — Blago’s appointment of Burris was the best “kiss my ass” move I’ve seen from a pol in a long time. Blago is a corrupt pol, but I have to hand it to him — he’s good.

  49. Anyone else get really p*ssed when elder Bush appears on those charitable donation spots with Big Dog?

    Nah, sister of ye — it doesn’t piss me off — he’s trying to buy his way out of hell like most of us do as we get closer to death.

  50. bostonboomer, on January 4th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    Ah, BB, finally a chance to use my all-time favorite quote from a Woody Allen movie (Hannah and her Sisters, line delivered by Max von Sidow):
    “If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he’d never stop throwing up.”

  51. heidi: I’m not attorney, but I can’t see Blago stepping down, especially since he’s not under indictment; this guy has got platinum ones … and if he thinks he’s going down, he’s going to take down whomever he can

  52. angienc2, on January 4th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
    This is how I feel about the matter as well.

  53. heidi — or my favorite line from Ghandi:

    “I like your Jesus. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Jesus.”

  54. Cinie —
    I left a message for you at the end of your post /thread re:boxing.
    It is the very last comment (right now, that is) I’ve been looking for you to tell you.

    Sister of ye ~
    you have to be a refugee from dependable renegade, no? i haven’t been there since I was called a Repuklican and accused of “spouting R talking points”.
    I’ve seen you around from time to time. Can’t tell you what a relief it is to see you today.

  55. I’m almost liking Blago – no slinking off with his head bowed for him. either he has something on everyone or he just has a ton of chutzpah. either way he’s making things interesting.

  56. what do y’all think Jesus would think of Obama’s campaign spending millions (how many? ) while children went to bed hungry? this country’s values are so eff’d up

  57. Heidili @10:46 —

    I have a friend who used to live in Emanuel’s district in Chgo. When he was moving there, I, like a good little Democrat said, “Lucky you. You’ve got Rahm Emanuel as your rep! ” His response was that he’d cut off his right arm before voting for that thug.
    Silly me, I was just too dyed in the wool to see what I see now. Emanuel has been involved in some of the sleaziest politics in the entire state. He has manipulated people and voting districts and has allocated moneys and has ignored good anti-war candidates so that this debacle in Iraq could continue.

    When you suggest he is more involved than has yet to come out, you ain’t just whistling Dixie.

  58. Leslie, and all the other Conflucians who have been so gracious, welcoming, and complimentary to me, I humbly thank you. Hell, the quality of writers around here is so intimidatingly exceptional that it’s an honor to be allowed to lurk. Thanks, again.

  59. ** blushes with embarrassment **

    Thanks, Leslie, for the kind words. Yes, I used to be a regular snarker at Dependable Renegade, as well as Attaturk’s place. (I quit R-H after one anti-boomer post too many – and that was before Obama-mania really cranked up.)

    I searched around a lot of places afterward and now lurk mostly around PUMA blogs, throwing in an occasional comment as time, inclination and inspiration allow.

  60. kiki, on January 4th, 2009 at 10:59 pm Said:

    what do y’all think Jesus would think of Obama’s campaign spending millions (how many? ) while children went to bed hungry?
    That is an easy one:

    “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, then for a rich man to get into heaven”

  61. Remember: “Jesus was a community organizer, Pontius Pilate was a governor!”

    Didn’t somebody come back with a retort that “FDR was a governor, Al Capone was a community organizer.” I’ve also seen “Hitler was a community organizer, FDR was a governor.”

  62. DYB: oooo, that’s something to chomp on

  63. I don’t have to read the bible to get screwed up. I had 12 years of Catholic school and the nuns to back this up!

  64. Hell, I was a community organizer and accomplished more than TehPrecious ever did. Nobody asked me to run, and I’m a natural born citizen with a valid birth certificate as well as a home and children.

    Where’s my robe and scepter?

  65. angie, remember when they were voting on something to do with the war and Give Em Hell Harry made this big show about moving in cots and we’re all going to sleep here, we’re not going to leave until this gets done, this time we’re serious, and then about 5 minutes into it they were like, yeah screw it? lol Fight fight fight fi–ow, my sciatica! Saying a word several times in succession is tiring!

  66. Harry Reid is creepy.

  67. DYB — I second dakinikat — I like those!

  68. Seriously — LMAO! Yep, I remember that one! “Give ’em hell Harry” he ain’t.

  69. PJ one of my favorite lines in “Milk:” is when Harvey is in debate with Senator Briggs and says, ‘If kids truly are influenced by their teachers, we’d have hundreds of nuns running around here!”

    But you’re right, they did the guilt thing brilliantly, didn’t they?

  70. I predict that Harry Reid will back down on this one too. How can he block a black guy, especially now that everyone knows that he tried to talk Blago out of appointing anyone black?

    Angie– I agree with you. Blagojevich figured out a way to give a real f**k you to Obama. He’s a lot smarter than he looks. Anyway he’d have to be to go from boxer, to bookie, to governor of Illinois.

  71. And lets not forget, Harry’s nose is sensitive to the stench of the hoi polloi in the summer time

  72. You gotta love the nuns! I swear to God they were the first group who invented STFU!

  73. bb — Blago isn’t as dumb as he looks, but then again he couldn’t be! LOL

    (my brother always said that to me!)

  74. LOL angie!

  75. Apparently Obama cried when he left Chicago today. Probably because he will be so far away from the graft that continues to pour out of that political sewer.

    Move over America. We are about to unseal the Capone safe once again.

  76. Pat J — invented & prefect the STFU move — nuns can pull the STFU move without saying word one.

  77. Leslie: Where’s my robe and scepter?

    umm, Leslie……you may have been a brilliant community organizer but unless you’re one of those male Leslies (like Howard or Neilson), well, you’re missing one of the prerequisites. sorry!

  78. Obama cried? did he break a nail? the man redefines the Andy Warhol quote “I am deeply superficial.”

  79. yeah, hasn’t Obama been a senator in D.C. for several years? it’s not like his first time away from home.

    oh wait, he was never actually there…..

  80. Pat: I bet he cried, he’s about to be found out by all those people who think he’s going to rescue them from all the Sh*t going down right now … it’s like a kid knowing he’s about to be caught in a HUGE lie

  81. Maybe I just had a better than average crop, but I don’t recall the nuns who taught be as being all that bad. Of course, I shifted to public school after 8th grade and decided that it wasn’t just nuns, that teachers as a whole were pretty screwy.

    Actually, what I wish for is traffic nuns who’ld pull over idiots like those who insist on tailgating on icy roads and give ’em a few whaps upside the head with a yardstick. [pulls ear of driver] “Young man/lady, what did it tell you about one-hippopotamus two-hippopotamus?”

  82. y’all lets just be grateful that Obama hasn’t moved the White House to Chicago (yet).

  83. I am about to turn in, friends, but wanted to say, with regard to the comment upthread – no, I don’t see Blago stepping down. For better or worse, he is shameless. He’s definitely corrupt, even for a politician (although, from what I’ve been learning, maybe not a Chicago politician), but there’s no percentage for him in stepping down, unless – and things might go this way – by stepping down he manages to avoid serving jail time. But until he’s confronted with that hard cold possibility: actually going to prison, he’s not leaving office voluntarily. And anybody who thought he would was just being silly. The real spineless crowd in all of this: the Illinois legislature who should have rapidly called a special election. But they were just so afraid that Republican might win they couldn’t bring themselves to do that, so now Blago can play fast and loose with all concerned.

  84. sister of ye — the nuns I had were not as bad as all that in retrospect, but at the time they all scared the hell out of me.

  85. Reid is a moron if he decides to make this the one thing he’ll fight over, especially now that he’s caught on tape. OTOH, Reid IS a moron….

  86. Maybe Obama cried ’cause he’s afraid they don’t have waffles in DC.

  87. night Heidi!

    I agree — Blago is shameless — and I admit, I’m enjoy the show.

  88. The nuns I had were fierce! The ones in high school used to come up off the floor to deck the football players. I saw one go down once because the kid stepped out of line and took a drink of water from the fountain in the hall. That was a big No No. They would rather you died of thirst then to break the line.

  89. I think Reid is waffling so that when the Senate finds itself forced to seat Burris and then has to decide whether to expel him, Obama can retract his own earlier statement that any Blago appointment would be unacceptable. Reid has to give Obama cover – that is, Obama has to be able to say: well, if it is ok with the Senate leadership, then there’s no reason for me to say anything to the contrary.

  90. Heidi — so it really is the spineless leading the spineless — what a great 4 years we are in for — or should I say 2 when the GOP takes back both the House & the Senate — God help us, but with Pelosi, Reid & Obama the public will be craving anyone with a modicum of “leadership” ability.

  91. Obama cried because he is expected to work for a change. The primaries are over, the huzzahs have quieted down, the vacation has concluded and he is now expected to deliver. If I were Obama I would be weeping too knowing how impossibly over my head I was come January 20th.

    Bet he will be doing an Uncle Goopie and clinging to Bush’s leg that day. (Uncle Goopie was a character out of the old Sid Caeser Show who “attached” himself to Sid and would not let go.)

  92. “Apparently Obama cried when he left Chicago today”

    Oh no! Now all of the kool-ade drinkers will abandon him, remember crying makes a person unfot to serve! I await all the mea culpas. Biden cried too, so after we impeach both of them who’s next in line, Byrd?

  93. my nuns were bad – I remember several of them had these things we called ‘clickers’ – it was some small wooden device they held in their hands and they used it to make a clicking noise. as far as I know, that’s all the damn thing did, but it scared the sh*t out of everyone. if the nun started clicking, there was going to be hell to pay and someone was going to have to pay it.

    I went to catholic college as well as elementary and high school. i actually have a BA in “guilt”.

  94. The GOP and us will be laughing with glee over the promised upcoming scandals. Starting with Blago, Rangel, Richardson, then throwing in Caroline to round out the fun.

    This could be comeback time for the supposed dead in the water GOP.

  95. If it is Byrd then we will all need those “nun clickers” just to rouse him ever so often. Those things had an effect. Sort of like a castenet. When you heard that sound you knew hell was about to be paid by somebody!

  96. kiki5@11:20,

    You’re right. I’m missing “that” prerequisite. I have no “experience”.
    good call.

    And I got “nailed by the nuns” for — whistling in the bathroom!
    What they were doing in the girls bathroom I’ll never know. just waiting for whistling, I guess.

  97. Pat: Obama cried because he is expected to work for a change.

    omg Pat, you could be right. he probably said “let’s get to DC and start campaigning for…..uh…uh….what’s next?” and somebody said “well, no, you actually have to do this job for a year or two before we start campaigning again”

  98. I remember those clickers!!
    The sound of clickers – even today – gets a rise out of me. (And I run and hide.)

  99. oh pat, your nuns had clickers too? wtf were those things?

  100. After spending 12 years in Catholic school I knew I could do real prison time if it ever came to that standing on my head. Nothing to compare.

  101. lol leslie, they still scare me too

  102. kiki: Like miniature castenets. To think that someone actually invented and then sold them is mind boggling! Must have been a remnant from the Spanish Inquisition.

  103. maybe we should have PUMA clickers. they’re not actually weapons or harmful but……

  104. Did anyone ever see what those clickers looked like?

    Were they anything like those metal “crickets” that used to be sold as “toys” in the dime stores?

  105. They are sure to get your “attention”. It is a wonder any of us who lived through those days are still sane. Or maybe not.

  106. Does anyone have a link to the story about Obama crying. I hope there’s a photo!

  107. can you imagine a million Puma march on DC, each with a clicker? it would be worse than the cicadas.

  108. leslie: Pretty much.

  109. Pat J,
    “Must have been a remnant from the Spanish Inquisition.”

    LOL!!

  110. bb: Fox was reporting it when I turned off the tv.

  111. Pat J — see your doing jail time standing on your head & raise you doing it while kneeling on uncooked rice! Remember that shit? I bet that is directly from the Spanish Inquisition as well.

    And yes, mine had the clickers too! I think they hand them out when nuns take the veil along with the rosary beads!

  112. kiki5,
    I’d love to march on DC with those clickers!
    A million of us?!!

    PERFECT !

  113. I don’t remember the uncooled rice but they used to “hang” some of the kids from a hook in the cloakroom to get their point across. Come to think of it, we were ahead of Abu Ghareib in that area!

  114. Heid Li– Add to the Woody Allen quote Holden Caulfield’s statement (from Catcher in the Rye), “Jesus would have puked.” I often think that.

    And agienc2, this old church lady agrees with Ghandi.

    As for Ed Dobson he, like so many, has been co-opted by packaging not content in his decision for Obama. Jesus was never a community organizer.

    I think I’ll go puke.

  115. I think those dime store ones were metal and cute, painted like ladybugs or something. I picture the nun ones as wooden, but now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure I never actually saw one. it’s hard to imagine they were cute lil ladybug lookin’ things

  116. kiki5

    If you enlarge the photo on the site, You’ll see him looking scared sh*tless!

    Exactly how I feel when I think of him actually being
    pResident.

  117. wow, we didn’t kneel on rice!!! I guess they were still dreaming up torture techniques even after we graduated.

    I do remember kneeling to make sure your skirt touched the ground.

  118. kiki5,
    did you roll your skirt waistband the moment you left the school or didn’t you wait that long?

  119. Leslie, he either looks scared or he’s putting on his serious face to go with his big boy pants. or a combination of the two.

    hell, I’d be scared if I was about to be president. what in the world made him think that was what he ought to be doing?

  120. Get this: The nuns used to stand in the doorway with a yardstick to be sure the skirt was the proper length. If not, you had to show your waist band so they could see if you were merely growing or had it rolled up. I swear to God, it was like being in lockdown half the time.

  121. we rolled our skirt waistbands very carefully so we wouldn’t crush the cigarettes we had hidden in the pleats.

    we could get a detention for being caught anywhere in the DC metro area with our skirts rolled or any other subversive behavior. I was part of a group caught smoking in Georgetown, a good ten miles from our school, several hours after school had let out.

    you would have thought we’d killed someone….

  122. oops, i left out – smoking in our uniforms

  123. Did those nuns all go to the same school for torture and torment?
    We couldn’t have all gone to the same school… In fact, I went to 2 different high schools because we moved between my sophomore and junior years.

    And still the torture continued.

  124. we rolled our skirt waistbands very carefully so we wouldn’t crush the cigarettes we had hidden in the pleats.

    I just laughed out loud at this reminder! So, so true!

  125. I remember those clickers too! Pat, when I was in 6th grade some girl game to class with make up on. The nun totally freaked and made her go in the girl’s room and wash it off. She must have felt so humiliated.

  126. the kneeling on uncooked rice thing hurt like hell & you had to do it on bare knees — boys had to roll up their pants legs & girls weren’t allowed to fold over our skirts for any “padding” — pure evil — of course, I went to school after outright hitting was no longer allowed, so they may have come up with the rice thing as a substitute for the ruler across the knuckles or paddle across the butt (which is what my dad had — he went to grammar & high school pre-Vatican 2 so he faced the paddle for the offense of using ball point pens — I do have to say, the man’s penmanship is beautiful).

  127. Too bad we never heard of the ACLU in those days.

  128. leslie: It was part of the nun curriculum. To get a teaching certificate you had to prove you were tougher than George Raft.

  129. well, one time we had a substitute (I think the nun who had been teaching us was either out having an abortion or a psychotic break), and I and a few of my classmates were shooting spitballs at one another before the calss had actually begun.

    The parents were called, we were all threatened with expulsion (we were the brightest group in school and I guess they were afraid of us), and we had punishments that took us through Christmas – AFTER we had returned from our week long suspension!

    you’re right, you’d have thought we killed the absent nun.

    Those were the fun times, alright.

  130. We had to wear name tags in h.s. (grammar school was small enough that we didn’t have too) and woe unto anyone who forgot her’s at home!

  131. my sister is older than me – she’s 63 – and when she was in elementary school a nun shoved a girl for talking in the hall and the girl’s head split open on the wall, an ambulance was called, all the kids were rushed into the auditorium so they wouldn’t see. that nun was gone after that day, probably just to another school. it didn’t stop the yardstick crap but they weren’t really shoving during my time.

  132. angienc2,
    Did you see the movie “Doubt”?
    Your referencing ball point pens reminded me of it.
    That was a really good story with some of the best acting———
    I have seen some great movies this holiday season.
    But the nun in “Doubt” reminded me of my 8th grade nun. Sister Jamesetta… OMFG !! She was the most repressed woman on the face of the earth.

    She never used a clicker. She just used her voice and her words. I think she was related to Hitler.

  133. A nun cut off my pony tail simply because I had attached it to the string on a window shade and I made it go up and down which amused all those sitting behind me. She cut it off and I had to bring it home in a paper bag to show my mother who then had to write a note to say she saw it.

    I was 15 and very proud of that pony tail. But you should have seen the mess I had to wear home that day before the hair dresser evened it out. Those nuns had some cruel ideas!

  134. I actually wanted to be a nun – I don’t think I related to the “spirituality” but I definitely saw the power. a family story is about the time we were all in the presence of a bishop who asked me if I wanted to be a nun when a grew up – I was about 6 or 7, and I said “no, not a nun, mother superior!”

  135. omg Pat, that kinda sounds like assault???

  136. Pat,
    i’d have loved to see the window shade rise and fall with the slightest move of your head.
    You must have been fun!
    (You’re lucky she didn’t duct tape your mouth and nose closed until you passed out.)

  137. In 6th Grade Sr. Elizabeth had us in groups of four (desks facing each other in a little square) to facilitate group projects, etc. (we also had a contest on the board for which group had the highest averages on tests, etc). Of course I kept getting busted for talking so I got split from my group — a little island by myself in the back of the class. When it was time for the state capitals group project I was assigned Juneau, Alaska (of course).But, my “group” of one did stay at the top on the board contest without those other dimwits weighing me down. I was never comfortable working on group projects after that.

  138. I think we have turned this posting in a “group therapy” for those of us who had the “privilege” of attending parochial schools.

  139. OMG, you guys really suffered. I only had to go to Catholic school for three years–4th, 5th, and 6th grade. The nuns weren’t that bad. In fact in 4th and 5th grade I had Franciscan nuns and I adored them. In 6th grade we moved and we had Domincans. They were mean as hell. My little sisters and brother had to go all the way thru elementary school and they have some horror stories.

    Pat, I can’t believe a nun cut off your hair. That could lead to a lawsuit these days.

  140. Angie, that reminds me of 8th grade when our nun assigned seats, and when she was done, there were about 6 of us who hadn’t been given seats, and she said “I don’t care what the rest of you do”

    we weren’t smart enough or brave enough to leave, we just kinda sat in the back

  141. bb: My hand to God! And I got it twice as hard when I went home with it in a bag to show my mother. I think I was grounded until I was 22.

  142. kiki5 –
    I think we all had that desire for power. That and to be the “Bride of Christ”… delicious. How much closer to unconditional power could you get?

    I only know one or two of my classmates who didn’t want to be nuns. (They were both pregnant at the time we graduated.) Some of my classmates actually did go to the convent. I only know of one who stuck with it.

  143. I’ll bet there are websites devoted to group therapy for catholic school survivors 🙂

  144. That thing about the rice reminds me of something up in Lowell, MA.

    There is this place that used to be a French Canadian orphanage. Now it’s a school. On the grounds there have stations of the cross that are practically life-size. Back in the ’30s and ’40s, kids used to have to go there for penance after confession. These are three-dimensional sculptures, and they are gruesome. At the end of the stations, there is a really long, high staircase that leads up to a giant crucifix–probably 3 times life size, with blood, etc.

    When you finished the stations of the cross, you had to climb up the stairs on your knees!

    Jack Kerouac wrote about this in his books.

  145. I wanted to be a nun when I was about 11 and could not understand why I needed to have a monthly period since nuns did not have kids. And I also was unable to understand why I had to go through having a monthly period if it was only to let me know I was not pregnant. Seems to me that a note from heaven would have done the same every month instead.

    I was not a worldly wise child in those days.

  146. I’ve been to the place, it’s just incredible!

  147. In hs I cut my hair in a “punk style” hair cut that was in style at the time (but looked like crap in retrospect) (real short like a boy’s on one side, chin length bob on the other) Sr. Delia (the principal) saw me in the hall the day after I “debuted” it at school & that was it — I had to wear a WIG to attend school after that until the short side grew out to an acceptable length & the hair cut could be “evened out” to her standards.
    I also had to dye my hair at the beginning of my sophomore year because I had stupidly put “Sun In” in it over the summer & turned it kind of orange — I had intended to let it “grow out” rather then dye it — but no deal — it is the only time in my life I had to dye my hair.

  148. I also only know of one classmate who joined the convent, and as far as I know, stayed.

    I had a nun cousin but she quit.

    I also had a priest cousin but…..dare i say?….he got a parishioner pregnant! well, they’ve been married now forever and ever….

  149. Kiki,

    You really went through hell! You should write a book and sell it to Hollywood. I’m serious.

  150. My uncle was a priest for quite a while, but he eventually left and married an ex-nun. They have one child.

  151. bb — I had Dominican nuns straight from Ireland brogues & all (both grammar & high school).

  152. I think my 8th grade nun has several websites devoted just to her. She was ruthless.

    And for the most part, my parent were just like your mother, Pat. They were madder than snot when I came home suspended from school. But when the nuns demanded that I attend a choral sing-along on the Sunday that we were celebrating my grandmother’s milestone birthday, that’s when my father finally saw the insanity for what it was.

    (of course, the fact that he was not Catholic – he was Jewish – talk about being guilty just for being born – helped me in that instance.)

  153. Pat,

    I would love to take you to the Stations of the Cross in Lowell. You might have to bring your therapist along though, in case you start having flashbacks.

  154. wow BB, there’s a place in Italy, stairs you’re supposed to climb on your knees. I can’t remember – I was actually there years ago but passed on the knee thing. is the Boston place a replica?

    sorry, catholic Church, but that’s just a dumb concept.

  155. I still have scars on my knees from the rice thing — seriously, they are little but you can see them.

  156. bb: Nothing like the Crucifixtion to scare the hell out of little kids! The nightmares!!!!!!!!!!!!

  157. my nuns were the IHMs – it stood for Immaculate Heart of Mary. we always said it stood for “I Hate Men”

  158. Kiki,

    It’s not in Boston, it’s in Lowell, MA. I went to ungrad there when I first went back to college. Lowell is an old mill town and there were people there of every nationality. The French Canadians are really fanatical catholics–practically sado-masochistic. They are the ones who put up the stations. There is also a grotto there where you can light a candle and leave a little note about your problems.

  159. kiki & bb — there is a church on the island of Tinos in Greece that the Mother of God alleges appears ever Easter with lots of steps & Greek Orthodox people come from all over to crawl up the steps on their knees — I admit, I did it myself when I visited — I ripped up the jeans I was wearing, but it wasn’t as bad as kneeling on the rice. LOL

  160. I doubt if it’s a replica. It’s probably just the kind of thing the old time Catholics did.

  161. The thing that saved me, at least I think it did, was that I was considered “bright”. I got in trouble for the most minor things but I guess they overlooked some of it because I was “bright” or whatever the hell they called it.

    I was so “bright” I married at 20 and ended up with 4 kids in 5 1/2 years. So much for that concept.

  162. what’s the point of crawling up stairs on your knees?

    God may grant you a longer life but you’ll need knee replacement surgery.

  163. Pat,

    The crucifix is bad enough, but the stations of the cross are really graphic and bloody–and huge! I mean they are like 8 feet square at least. Those would really give a kid nightmares.

  164. Pat J — did you see that Mel Gibson movie “The Passion?” All the people who saw it who were so amazed at the “violence” involved obviously didn’t go to Catholic school — I remember the nuns & priests telling such vivid stories about the suffering of Jesus that when I saw the movie I thought “what they hell did ‘those’ sissies expect? tiddlywinks?’

  165. I had Dominicans my entire school life. They were something else. They were different orders of Dominicans, but Dominicans nonetheless. I didn’t know the IHM could be as bad. Soundslike they were, though.

    BB, that grotto must have reams of paper devoted to “get me out of Catholic School” notes. 😉

  166. kiki5 — crawling on your knees shows your “subjugation” to the Lord. Same concept as lying flat on your stomach when praying. “Lord have mercy on me, a poor sinner.”

  167. The main thing I remember from 6th grade is the obsession with sex. They were totally freaked out that we would be interested in it, so they talked about it constantly. They showed us these movies about sperm and egg–the boys and girls watched them separately. And the parish priest came in to read us stories about girls who got pregnant the first time they had sex–and they were ruined for life of course. I was like 10 years old.

  168. I had a great aunt who was a cloistered dominican nun. which meant we never saw her, cause she was sort of a prisoner. I met her once when I was about 6 years old through a little window, and that was only because somebody died so we all got to talk to her for about 5 minutes.

    so weird………….

  169. I had the Sisters of St. Joseph. This group could have been welterweights. They may have scared and terrified us much of the time, but boy did we learn. I can still remember things that were taught back then. I just kind of drifted away from all the religious crapola that we were forced fed on a daily basis.

    The day I considered that Joan of Arc may have been suffering from an untreated case of schizophrenia was the day I sort of backed off.

  170. I think Mel Gibson got a kick out of “The Passion” because those scenes were unnecessarily graphic.

  171. kiki,
    I think the point of crawling up the stairs on your knees, is so when you decide to be married and have kids, you think of those stairs and decide labor isn’t as bad as crawling up those stairs on your knees. . .

    Until they are 2, then 12, then 16, then 18 years old and the stairs start to look good. (My first 2 kidlets are 15 months apart. See what a good little Catholic girl I was?)

  172. You guys have me laughing out loud over here with your experiences! Too funny!

  173. angie, yeah I know what it’s supposed to be about……I just call BS on it all.

    when I was in elem school, they loved to talk about the little spartan boy who hid a fox under his shirt and the fox….umm……killed him but the kid was a hero cause he never cried out. cause he was a spartan.

    to this day I wonder what message I was supposed to learn from that story.

  174. LOL, Leslie. Seriously, I read some of the notes and they were heartrending, like I have cancer, please help me.

    The Dominicans were vicious. My little sister was really traumatized by her third grade nun. She would yell at them and she made my sister who was left-handed switch to the right.

    I told this story before, but both of my sisters were forced to watch movies of horrible train and car crashes. I have no idea why. They were both so traumatized that every time my parents approached a RR crossing, they would scream bloody murder. And we had a lot of RR crossings in the midwest.

  175. bb — in hs during religion class we had a “guest lecturer” — the parents of one of the other girls in my class (I went to an all girl hs, btw) who, btw, had 10 kids — & the father told us how he would never have married a woman who was “used goods” (i.e., not a virgin). Fucker. My first marriage was a DIRECT RESULT of that lecture — yes, I was a virgin (of course, I was 19 when we eloped). But my first husband (a very good guy, btw) should have just been my first serious boyfriend. I got over the “no sex without marriage” thing after that.

  176. leslie: I also have two kids that were 15 months apart. Apparently I just never knew how to say “stop already”. Getting 4 kids ready to go to the grocery store in the winter was pure exhaustion! Hats, mittens, boots, snowsuits, mufflers, unbelievable.

  177. They were both so traumatized that every time my parents approached a RR crossing, they would scream bloody murder. And we had a lot of RR crossings in the midwest.

    bb, I don’t care how often you tell this story, I always laugh out loud!! Love it!

  178. Leslie, Pat, I was exhausted from one kid!

    you guys have my unending admiration!

  179. Kiki,

    My favorite stories were the ones where a little boy goes into a chapel that the Nazi’s have raided. They have thrown the communion wafers all over the floor. And the little boy picks up all the wafers with his tongue and swallows them–because they aren’t supposed to touch the ground and you can’t touch them with your hands.

    LOL!

    Did you have scapulars? Those things that, if you kiss them, you get dispensations from purgatory? OMG, I can’t believe I ever bought into all that stuff!

  180. kiki: Believe me. After the 4th kid I always knew where my birth control pills were even if I did not know where the kids were.

  181. Pat,

    Believe me, it was no fun being in the car with them.

  182. Pat J — the day I learned the Catholic Church was full of shit was the day we learned about some South American “saint” who was sainted because when a guy wanted to have sex with her at knife point (i.e., RAPE her) she refused and he killed her — that is, she died rather then “lose her virtue.” What kind of crap is that to tell 8th graders? I got in a big argument with my teacher that day saying that being raped wasn’t “losing your virtue” so that was pretty much a stupid reason to become a saint — I was sent to the principal’s office, of course, but my parents were on my side on that one (the only time btw — they usually sided with the teachers).

  183. BB,
    You had sex ed in the 6th grade? We didn’t get sex ed until senior year in HS. Of course, by that time 6 girls I knew had already given birth.

    The questions fielded by the priests – it was a girls’ school – had nothing to do with sex. We had to submit our questions on slips of paper for the priest to read and answer. One of my classmates asked about “artificial insemination” ! The priest couldn’t pronounce it when he started to read the note. None of us even knew what it was. It sounded like a diseased organ.
    He quit reading it – demanding to know who it was who wrote the question (“Is artificial insemination acceptable to the Catholic Church?”) Of course no one would confess. We all nearly had to stay after school – except for those who had jobs. Fortunately I had a job and had to leave. We’ll never know who asked the question, but it is my favorite sex ed question – ever.

  184. angie: That had to be St. Maria Goretti. She was raped and they made her a saint.

  185. lol Pat!

    BB, yeah, I kinda remember scapulars. I’m not sure I understood what they were for. were they relics? I do remember the thing about not touching a “host” – crazy scary stuff all the time in the catholic church.

  186. bb — I have been to 40 consecutive novenas (yes, that is 9 novenas x 40) so I’m “guaranteed” not to die without receiving my last rites! LOL

  187. You weren’t supposed to have the host touch your teeth let alone have it hit the floor. And you had to fast from midnight on before taking communion or you were committing a mortal sin. Christ, the rules, the rules, the rules.

  188. Pat J — St. Maria Goretti! damn you’re good!

  189. omg I love the artificial insemination story! someone was being so cool 🙂

  190. Angie,

    I remember that Saint. Was it St. Maria Goretti? The nuns used to tell us about that. Sickening. When I realized the Church was full of shit was when I found out how anti-female they were. I never could understand why women couldn’t be priests or girls couldn’t be altar boys. And the most insulting thing was that women couldn’t go inside the altar railing to the sacristy, except if they were cleaning! And of course we had to wear hats to church.

    I had to go to instruction class every Sat. because I went to public school. I would always raise my hand and ask the priest why women couldn’t be priests and then I would argue with him endlessly.

  191. kiki,
    “Leslie, Pat, I was exhausted from one kid!
    you guys have my unending admiration!

    NEVER,ever admire women who didn’t know how to say “enough already”.

    No offense, Pat.

  192. Pat J — they’ve eased up on the fasting thing — now it is no eating for one hour before communion (in the Orthodox church though it is still from midnight)

  193. This has been one of the funniest nights we have had, just reminiscing about our past lives with the nuns. No wonder we are all a little bit nuts!

  194. remember when people starting going to church on saturday night (which counted as sunday morning) because thye were just so darn hungry on sunday? instead of changing the food rule, they made a new saturday thing.

  195. Leslie,

    It wasn’t really sex ed. The movies made no sense to me. The rest was just scare stories and of course most of us had no idea how you got pregnant anyway.

  196. oh, one more thing…….if we didn’t have our beanie when we went to church, we had to wear a kleenex on our head, which was a shameful thing

  197. hey {{{catholic or former catholic sisters}}} this has been fun and therapeutic

  198. Just adding perspective to my life experiences: I taught CCD to first graders for 5 years, was a female lector, was a member of the parish council for 5 years, and was president of the Ladies Guild two years in a row. Let me also point out that this was actually my idea of “getting out of the house” and had nothing to do with religion.

    I was going batshit from staying home with 4 kids and a husband who worked two jobs. This was my social life in those days. OMG!!!

  199. Photos of scapulars:

    http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1T4GZEZ_en-GBUS287US287&q=scapular&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title

    What we were taught was that if you wore one, you would get time off of purgatory. I had one.

  200. I probably should not admit this, but my sex ed class wasn’t until senior year of HS — I was so damned naive that when they told us about the episiotomy I thought the two “openings” were from the v@gina to the anus — I had no idea the v@gina had more than one! D’oh!
    Good lord, is it any wonder I eloped & got married at 19? LMAO!

  201. OMG, bb, I had one with a bleeding heart sticking out!

  202. Kiki,

    I can remember wearing a kleenex pinned to my hair too. LOL!

  203. Just looking at what I wrote reminds me that I was pretty pathetic in more ways than one!

  204. bb — I’ve never worn a scapular but I always carry several saints “trading cards” in my wallet. Think that counts?

    I refuse to believe the “no more purgatory” thing, btw — purgatory is the only chance I have of not having to get on the hell express.

  205. St. Maria Goretti

    http://www.mariagoretti.org/mariabio.htm

    She was killed at age 11 by a boy who tried to rape her. She died after forgiving him.

    See girls? You have to prevent him from raping you, but if he does, you have to forgive him.

  206. wow, Pat. I was kinda gone from the church even before I went to catholic college. I don’t even remember why I went to catholic college, but it wasn’t for religion either.

    I got married many years after college, and did it in the catholic church. I hadn’t considered myself a catholic for years but fear and superstition made me get married there. my athiest husband and I had to take classes – I failed and he passed, and the priest, who was actually cool, pronounced him a better catholic than me and questioned the value of catholic schools.

    good times…..

  207. BB, I remember asking the same questions…Why, Why, Why??? In my HS yearbook, they have the words “But Sister…” neath my photo.

    The nuns had it with me. They tried to tell me that being the “Bride of Christ” was a better deal. *shaking head*
    How deluded can you be? They couldn’t drive, they couldn’t drink, they had these amazingly complicated habits to wear. Who were they kidding? (I mean, besides themselves)

    BB – your description of the huge crucifix reminded me of a story. My father – my Jewish father – was in hospital a couple of years before he died. It was a Catholic hospital. They had crucifixes in every room – facing the patient’s beds. The night before his heart surgery, I stayed with him – I worked in that hospital, so I just used my ID badge to get into his room. During the night, I got caught REMOVING THE CRUCIFIX from the wall. (By one of the Catholic nurses). Once again, you’d have thought I murdered someone.
    I lied, saying he was hallucinating and that I’d replace it when he was moved to surgery the next morning. I didn’t want to tell them it was offensive to him – and to me.
    They didn’t fire me. I put the crucifix in the drawer for housekeeping to find.

  208. Pat J — no you were not — I’m convinced that most of the woman actively involved in the church organizations are there for the same reason as you were. I know the highlight of my grandmother’s week was typing up the church’s newsletter & the priest’s sermon (all volunteer work, btw).

  209. Think of how bad off we would be without a sense of humor. If nothing else survived at least we have that to cling to.

  210. Angie,

    I used to have holy cards too. I’m older than you, so I was exposed to more nonsense. When my mom was a kid, she had to fast from midnight and drink no water either! When I was in HS they stopped the no meat on Fri. thing–after all those years. Then recently, I heard the Church decide there’s no Limbo! Limbo was a big reason why I wanted to leave the church at age 13. They sent babies there if they hadn’t been baptised! It was like purgatory, but you could never get out and make it to heaven. That was just too cruel for me.

  211. angienc2,
    “…purgatory is the only chance I have of not having to get on the hell express.”

    LOLOLOL!!!!!!

    me too! 😀

  212. Oh Leslie, that’s so sad. Those nuns (and priests) could be so insensitve. They were true believers. I’ll never forget when the Monsignor would give sermons about how only Catholics could go to heaven, and how it would be a sin to go to another church, even to visit. God, it was sick.

  213. You guys have made this most enjoyable. Funny stuff delivered in a most amusing way. I love this place!

  214. Leslie, how awful about your dad in the hospital – I’m sorry! (not personally, but you know)

    and BB, wtf happened to all those babies in Limbo? did they get upgraded to Purgatory?

  215. I stopped going to church as soon as I could drive. I would leave the house and go somewhere for an hour. My mom would always ask me who said Mass, so I’d have to go by the church and check. My mom knew what I was doing, I’m sure.

  216. last story, and I have to go to bed……..

  217. Let’s have it kiki!

  218. bb — were you pre-Vatican 2? My dad was & the stories he tells are downright scary — at least I got “the God is love” stuff mixed in with the bs (meanwhile tell my dad “God is love” and he looks at you like you are speaking martian).

    I never bought the “sending unbaptized babies” to Limbo anyway — how could God do that to babies? I always called b.s. on that one. But my grandmother (Irish Catholic) totally believed it — after my brother was born but before his baptism he started chocking one morning on something or other — while my mother was turning him upside down trying to save his life (which she did, thank God) my grandmother was busy doing an “emergency” baptism on him. (which she did with tap water). He was still given the “real” baptism as previously scheduled.

  219. Kiki,

    No. That’s the tragedy. There was no redemption for anyone who wasn’t baptised. The only exceptions were that there was baptism by fire and a couple of other things. If someone really wanted to be baptised but they died first or if they were heroic in some way. It was so sick. To think of a little baby being punished–I just couldn’t bear it.

  220. I am off to bed. Thanks for a stimulating evening! You guys are the best.

  221. in my grade school, they used to make kids stand up if they had a parent who wasn’t a catholic, so we could pray for them……it was horrible.

    and BB, I once ran by the church to pick up a bulletin to make it look like I’d gone to church, and ended up getting the car caught in snow escaping. trying to free it I damaged it. asking the mechanic to lie about the time I called him…..umm…..didn’t work out. oy! bad day all around. I shoulda just gone to church…..

  222. Angie,

    Yes, I remember when Vatican II happened. When I was a kid we still had Pope Pius XII. He was the Nazi sympathizer. We had Mass in Latin with the priest facing the altar and everything. By the time they changed the Mass, I was pretty much gone.

  223. I think my mother saved my scapular (her brother was a priest for 55 years) so it meant something to her – I guess she was worried about saving my soul. She put it in the same box with my baby teeth. So maybe she was worried about my dental health as well.

    That Catholic school guilt and fear-mongering worked, though. I was divorced after 22 years of marriage and my ex got married (he was the good Catholic) and I didn’t because I was still worried that I would go to hell if I remarried. And I didn’t even consider myself a Catholic by that time. *sigh*

  224. bb — when we were little we all went to church as a family but the second my brother & I were off to college my dad stopped going & hasn’t been there since — not even on Christmas or Easter — at least he isn’t a hypocrite (which is what he considers those who only go on those days to be — and, I have to say, I agree with him).

  225. bb – my dad was an alter boy & can still recite the entire mass in Latin — he likes to say it is his second language!

  226. I was also divorced after 19 years of marriage and never married again. However, it could have been seeing the 4 kids plus my mother all lined up at the door that did squelched any interest.

  227. night Pat!

  228. Wow. This really was a therapy session. Poor Kiki, being punished with a damaged car. That happened to me the first time I went to a liquor store to when I was underage. Some old drunk backed into my dad’s car and broke the headlight. We went to a gas station and got it fixed, but my dad knew something was up.

  229. night {{{y’all}}}. we need to start a catholic blog. looks like we all have a lot of weird stuff to either deal with or let go 🙂

    I’ll work on it!

  230. Angie,

    My parents haven’t gone to church for years either. My mom called all of us years ago and apologized for sending us to Catholic school.

    I kind of like the Mass in Latin. Once you understood the words it wasn’t so mystical and strange.

  231. ‘Night Pat and Kiki. I’d better hit the sack myself. Good night Angie and Leslie and whoever else is here.

  232. the good thing about the Orthodox Catholics is they allow you 3 marriage (2 court sanctioned divorces) so my second marriage, which was in the Orthodox church also has a court sanctioned divorce — I don’t have to “not take communion” because of divorce (although I may not take if for other reasons).

    My mom is orthodox & my brother & I were baptized Orthodox, but the schools we went to were Roman Catholic though & my dad is Roman Catholic, just to clarify.

  233. Night bb & kiki!

    I’m off to bed too — night Leslie & everyone else out there!!

    Make sure to say your prayers tonight! LOL

  234. This has been so much fun!!
    I never thought holy cards, scapulars, kneeling on rice and rolled waistbands could be so much fun.

    Thank you everyone!!

    When I was a kid, it was like little house on the prairie. You could hear us after the lights were turned out saying, “goodnight and god bless you”. Despite all the other memories, I still like saying that.

    So good night and g-d bless us, everyone.

  235. Maybe I meant the Waltons.

  236. Sure he cried, what will he do without his bestest neighbor Rezko? Let’s analyze those tears, shall we?

  237. Jesus wouldn’t have voted. End of story.

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